So they are going back to Legion of Super-Heroes as the title. And doesn't one-shot special usually refer to just one issue? I thought we were getting a two issue crossover.
And Teen Titans with flight rings. Why not just give them out with Cracker Jacks or in a Happy Meal.
Levitz has had a hand in the revamp process. Maybe he cares after all.
[ May 26, 2004, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Grr. Arrgh.
quote:That said, the three founders have been, are, and will be playing a role. “They’re vastly important,” Waid said of Saturn Girl, Lighting Lad, and Cosmic Boy. “Indescribably important. But that doesn’t mean you’ll be seeing them. After that, we’re still pinning down the membership, so even we’re not 100% certain. Okay, okay--Brainiac 5.”
So are they there are not?
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
So, no more teenagers? Or is Waid thinking of a Logan's Run kind of future?
quote:Also, Waid is acutely aware that, given its longevity, the Legion has been deconstructed a number of times by a number of creators, many of whom have made good points when they tore down the team. For instance, who in their right mind would entrust the security of the Earth and United Planets to teenagers?
“That’s the first question we asked when we put every single element of the Legion under the microscope--and when we realized that the inevitable answer, no matter how hard we tried to make it otherwise, was ‘No one,’ that actually laid the inspiration for the entire backstory--as you’ll see.”
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
Crap.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
I read it as they're still teeagers, just not officially sanctioned by the U.P.
Posted by Blacula on :
Hmmm... looks like we've got 2 threads on the subject. In case one of them dies a lonely death here's what I posted on the other one...
"FINALLY!
So the facts are revealed at last and the rumours have all been true - Mark Waid and Barry Kitson are re-re-booting the Legion!
I... don't know what to think about this. I must admit I'm quite surprised - I really didn't think they'd restart the Legion AGAIN and so soon (relatively) after the last re-boot too!
This is a very risky move by DC IMO. Didn't the first re-launch do enough to alienate long-time Legion readers? Are they now trying to piss off the re-boot fans too?
As for myself, I'm conflicted. On the one hand, I LOVED the re-boot Legion. Sure there were some bad periods (PMS and practically all of DnA since issue #2 of the current series) but nothing about this universe was broken beyond repair and any good writer could have picked up the ball and carried the team to new heights. But on the other hand I do really love Kitson and Waid's work (for the most part) and some of the ideas they're cooking up sound really interesting!
I'll definitely give the first few issues a look to see what they've got planned.
... and I'm trying not too let myself get too excited about it because I'm sure fate still has a cruel blow in store for me, but one thing the re-re-boot might hopefully give us is... THE RETURN OF GIM ALLON!!! WOO-HOO!!! (*dancing in giddy glee*)
In fact, someone should probably start a thread of the things they want to see in the re-re-boot. I'll get the ball rolling :
* GIM ALLON ALIVE! * SHRINKING VIOLET WITHOUT THE GROWTH POWER! * SENSOR AS THE HUMAN PRINCESS PROJECTRA! * NO LEGION DEATHS! * NO SUPERBOY! ... etc."
Adding to your comments LL -
* warning bells went off for me too when I read that thing about the Titans getting flight rings. I DO NOT want to see any Teen Titans (except maybe Superboy) as honorary Legionnaires!
* loving the title change! Legion of Super-Heroes is so much more classic sounding. Thank God it wasn't (ugh!) LSH!
* very excited to see who makes the membership cut! No surprise to see boring old Legion staple Brainiac 5 there (and I'm sure his other over-exposed almuni - Ultra Boy, Apparition, Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad, M'Onel, Spark and Chameleon will be there too) but I hope some of the less showy, less-spotlighted Legionnaires make the cut too.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Here's a link to the other topic, started by Mr. Kayak, which I missed this morning.
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: Sure there were some bad periods (PMS and practically all of DnA since issue #2 of the current series) but nothing about this universe was broken beyond repair and any good writer could have picked up the ball and carried the team to new heights.
I agree completely. There's no excuse for yet another Legion reboot. I do like the idea of the stories being character-driven. I'm hoping they more or less pick up where they left off and just change the focus of the stories. I don't want the reboot to mean unkilling anybody already dead though, much as I miss Gim. Let's move forward and not backward please.
I hope they relegate Gear to support staff.
I hope they ditch Kid Q and Kinetix.
I hope they use the older Titans in the crossover: Tempest, Nightwing, Flash, etc.
I hope they bring back Dirk, Tenzil and Andromeda (okay, I'd rather have Supergirl, but I don't see it happening.)
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Why, damn it, why?
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
Even though it's not stated explicitly, it sounds like it's going to be another reboot rather than a change in status quo, but I'm not really sure, which is frustrating (or did I miss something?).
From what Waid said about it being a "movement" rather than a "team" and that no government would trust a bunch of kids to safeguard the universe lead me to think that these teens are going to be "rebels" the way hippies were a rebellious counterculture that had a new worldview that young people were getting behind in hopes of bettering the world (not that the Legion will be "hippies" per se, but maybe the adults of the 31st century might see them as modern day versions?).
If this is a reboot, I envision a slow rebuilding, almost along the lines of "Supreme Power" (but not *that* slow), where the various Legionnaires are seen as motivators of their own individual stories who eventually come together.
Waid: "But every story, every single story - whether it’s the “A” plot, the “B” subplot, or the “C” sub-subplot--must always be about one or more Legionnaires and how what’s happening for the next 30 or 60 or 90 pages is affecting them."
That's good news. It's the biggest gripe i've had with DnA the last few storyarcs. Not only good to hear that there'll be a bigger concentration on characterization, but that there will be a "B" subplot and "C" sub-subplot! (is that a hint we'll be seeing the "Subs" again??)
There are some things the get excited about, some things to be apprehensive about, but ultimately it'll depend on how they handle the characters, imo (and if they put WILDFIRE in the lineup!) and we won't know that until the book hits the stands. There wasn't anything that Waid or Kitson said that I immeditately object to. I like the idea of them redesigning the 31st century -- that could be cool.
Posted by M'onel on :
quote:Originally posted by Invisible Brainiac: Why, damn it, why?
I know I'm going to kick myself for this, but I guess it has to be done. Note this is meant as my opinion so take with a grain or a bushel of salt.
Why oh why do many of us fans have to b***h about a good thing? We have the Legion back and we whine over vague little details. Would it hurt the fandom to at least show a little optimism?
[ May 26, 2004, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: M'onel ]
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by M'onel: Why oh why do many of us fans have to b***h about a good thing? We have the Legion back and we whine over vague little details. Would it hurt the fandom to at least show a little optimism?
I'd say the whole premise of the series and the basis of the characters is slightly more than "vague little details"
I DON'T think this is a good thing.
[ May 26, 2004, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: Sanity or Madness? ]
Posted by Fat Cramer on :
That was pretty vague, really - I don't have much idea how a "movement" will function as opposed to a group. We don't even know who will really be on the team, or in the movement, or whatever. Just that there will be character focus (good!), 30 pages (good - but probably a price hike!), it will be set in the future and there will be bad guys. Brainiac 5 will be around, but what will he be like? Maybe he will be a she! Or a sentient cloud!
I'm glad & relieved the series is continuing. At least the anticipation and speculation should be fun!
Posted by M'onel on :
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: I'd say the whole premise of the series and the basis of the characters is slightly more than "vague little details"
Touche, I'll admit I made a mistake in proclaiming that.
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: I DON'T think this is a good thing.
I have one question: Will you pick up the book?
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by M'onel:
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: I DON'T think this is a good thing.
I have one question: Will you pick up the book?
Honestly? Probably not. I don't want to reward them for screwing everything over.
Posted by kid chaos on :
I agree with SorM and Invisible Bainiac: WHY?? Why another complete-rebbot? I agree the Legion could use a revamp to freshen the concept up a little, but another frickin reboot?? This is most likely the end of the Legion. I just don't think they can survive another start from scratch, even if its good. I really hope I'm wrong. If Waid's relaunch is a smashing success I'll be the first to joyfully put my foot in my mouth.
And if anyone can pull it off its Waid. He has a lot on his shoulders this time. Cause if this flops, the legion will drift away to comic book limbo.
Posted by MLLASH on :
So the Legion is now going to be the Manson Family of Space except instead of killing people they save them?
We all know what happened when L.E.G.I.O.N. became R.E.B.E.L.S.
Posted by Eryk Davis Ester on :
This is obviously a throw back to the glory days of Legion on the Run!
Posted by Spellbinder on :
I would hate to see the menace so bad that the LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES will need the added help of... ummm... Cyborg and Kid Flash
Of course, that's Cyborg and Kid Flash, plus flight rings...
Posted by Pov on :
Hope someone remembers that Bart should still have the flight ring Brainy gave him... right???
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by Pov: Hope someone remembers that Bart should still have the flight ring Brainy gave him... right???
I'm sure it was telepathic earplugs, not a flight ring.
Posted by Pov on :
Aah, THAT's it... "Give me a think sometime..."
It was Kon who had a flight ring, and Cos took it back after Team 20 caught him giving to his girl Roxie in his title...
Posted by Juan on :
Do they actually say that this is a true reboot anywhere in that interview? The feeling I got is that they are just using the current continuity in a new title; a different approach to many things, I assume, but the current continuity nevertheless. I guess I think that because of Kon-el's heavy involvement in the Titans storyline, it fits with current continuity, and it really would mean bending over backwards in any true reboot.
So, are they trimming membership? Did I understand that correctly? They do speak about only ca. 20 Legionnaires... We know Brainy is in. Who else?
Actually, I'm excited about this, this "movement" idea sounds fun. A focus on characterization also sounds very, very good. And I love the fact that Levitz was directly involved in the planning, I'm sure he's had some ideas over the years since he hasn't been writing that he could pass over to the new writer... Regarding Kitson's art, I really liked him in L.E.G.I.O.N. (I don't think I have read anything more recent by him).
All in all, I think I am, at least for the moment, a happy camper.
Juan
Posted by Mystery Lad on :
At the least, I'm looking forward to a Brainy/Bart Allen reunion. That should be fun (if there'll be any room for fun).
I don't really mind if the Titans get honorary flight rings... as long as it's a finite number. Depending on how it's done and how the crossover ends.
30 pages of story? Now, that's exciting. Focus on characterization? Great. Movement, not team? I don't know what that means. I'll bet Winema discredits the team, somehow.
I can't tell from this article whether we're about to get a full-fledged reboot, or what. It wouldn't make sense for the relaunch to begin with one set of characters crossing over with the Titans and a new set of heroes forming the rechristened LEGION OF SUPER HEROES, would it?
There are vague mentions of goings-on in the greater DCU... Identity crisis? A new Grant Morrison 'meta-event'? Something's coming up.
Perhaps the Legion will be the forerunner of widespread change occuring throughout the DCU, for once-- instead of the red-headed stepchild getting the back of the hand.
It's kind of exciting, not knowing exactly what's ahead. Nov/Dec are a *long* way away, aren't they?
This is going to subject eGAD's storyline to a *microscopic* (or would that be macroscopic?) amount of scrutiny, isn't it? Her hints about her story dovetailing into WAK's (or BAM's) tenure are provocative, aren't they?
Maybe I'm just having an optimistic morning, but I'm all *tingly* about this. For no good reason, I have a good feeling.
I wonder if Waid, Kitson and Wacker are lurking here? Would comments addressed to them be better posted here, or at the DC boards? Both?
Wasn't there supposed to be some new part of the DC website functioning as and online letters page? Did that just mean the message boards as they currently exist? What a come-on, if so.
Anyway, I'm propitiating the Luck Lords for some favorable vibes aimed at BAM (or WAK?) and at all of us tremulous fans.
Hey, Mark and Barry...
... Good Luck and Congratulations!
Don't screw it up.
And bring back Element Lad.
Please?
TN
Posted by Pov on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: WAK's (or BAM's)
We can always call 'em BnM... if this thing ends up going over like a fart in church...! Posted by draub on :
quote:Originally posted by Blacula: * GIM ALLON ALIVE! * SHRINKING VIOLET WITHOUT THE GROWTH POWER! * SENSOR AS THE HUMAN PRINCESS PROJECTRA! * NO LEGION DEATHS! * NO SUPERBOY! ... etc."
* Potential to see many characters who are long overdue to be introduced in the reboot: Blok, Tellus, Quislet, Dawnstar, Sun Boy, an old enough Polar Boy, etc...
* Mon-El (as opposed to whatever he's called today): Easy to justify if some of the characters are motivated by inspiration in the past...although a Daxamite, he took on a name inspired by his Kryptonian hero. It's not unreasonable that he'd figure out Supes real name...he had a lot of time to kill while in whatever zone he was in.
* Leland McCauley - I like the fact that he was a perpetual thorn in the Legionnaires side after the re-boot...a re-reboot may bring him back to that.
* Old School Fatal 5: No offense to the re-booted 5, but they just weren't filling the shoes. Now we can bring back a dangerous Validus, an Emerald Empress with an eye (that does not talk...or if it does somehow talk (hopefully only to the Empress...very occassional voices in the head sort of thing)) it doesn't act like some moping co-dependant "eye this / eye that" whining sphere of psychological problems. Perhaps a Persuader with his post 5YG attitude "Since you didn't step aside like I asked, don't take it personally when I ram my atomic axe down your throat, it's just business." Mano (one who actually wants to be part of the Fatal 5).
* Timberwolf never has to be compelled to say "Think fast!" again.
* Rond Vidar as a Green Lantern: Considering how important he was in the pre-boot Legion, I think this time around they can turn a blind eye to the "No powers derived from objects" rule. Also, having a GL on the team might be good for bringing the AR GL types onboard the title.
* Letters page: Heh..a man can dream can't he?
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Lad: I wonder if Waid, Kitson and Wacker are lurking here? Would comments addressed to them be better posted here, or at the DC boards? Both?
I've personally invited both Mark and Barry to join up. I only ever heard back from Barry who was very busy at the time but said he may stop by. Never heard anything from Mark.
As for Mr. Editor Wacker, I know that he, or someone on his staff, reads this board. Maybe he'll finally uncloak and reveal himself.
Posted by Pov on :
Well, I'm not freaked out by this news. In fact, I think it seems pretty exciting.
Posted by Spellbinder on :
Imra better watch herself. The last psychic involved in a Titans crossover ended up with a snapped neck. But it really helped the story along Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
Um...who said anything about a reboot?
There doesn't seem to be anything close to a reboot coming, just a bit of a change in direction. The article was pretty vague, and said nothing about a change in continuity or starting over again.
I'd offer my opinions on the subject...but there's hardly anything in the article about what the Legion is going to be like. I'm just glad that there will be a book, that Mark Waid has a love for the characters, and now I'll just wait for the next article to come out that may actually give us details.
I do like the idea of 30 page issues though Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Pov, I can always count on you to voice the thoughts I don't dare. Its almost as if you were the little voice saying to me, as I wrote that, Mole Wacker! Posted by Greybird on :
[Mystery Lad] {[...] And bring back Element Lad. Please?}
Don't worry. He'll be back. Somehow.
Posted by Greybird on :
As for the Big News itself, I haven't untangled in my mind what Re-Launch, Restart, and Reboot signify, and which one this Waid-Kitson era is going to end up to be.
When (not if, see link immediately above) some of the missing pre-boot characters return, I'll be happy. If the storyline AND art are compelling, hell yes, I'll buy it.
For now, though, we just don't know enough details. Except that we can confidently count upon the eternal persistence of the craftiest people in this and every galaxy: lawyers. Especially trademark lawyers.
Posted by Tromium Crystal on :
Well, I first read the news early this morning but I've been feeling too emotional to post anything about it.
I'm sad, mainly because I'm uncertain I'll still be on board this December, especially if the core team and its founders don't remain substantially intact. I'm not against change, but I don't believe the LSH is in need of a "factor 6" change. Hell, I'm still recovering from the changes wrought by Legion Lost. This is a little too much for me to digest rught now.
Five new LSH Archives books are waiting for me at the post office. If I can't take comfort in the future, at least I still have the past.
Posted by Autochef on :
The basic concept of the LSH will never die as long as DC still makes super-hero comics, because it has too much potential. Waid has expressed a love for the concept and so I doubt he will change things so drastically that it will no longer be the Legion. It might be a hypertimed Legion with preboot elements or something, but it'll still be a team of 25-ish kids from different planets with varying powers, set in the future. I'm sure of this.
Now, is Barry Kitson fast enough to draw 30 pages a month without needing fill-ins? Or maybe is that rumored Lightle "Legion Outpost" project a regular backup? With 30 pages, the title could have a dedicated 8-page backup. I'd like that.
Posted by draub on :
quote:Originally posted by Autochef: Or maybe is that rumored Lightle "Legion Outpost" project a regular backup? With 30 pages, the title could have a dedicated 8-page backup. I'd like that.
The math certainly is intriguing...as is the possibility. Posted by Nightcrawler on :
Hmmm...I think you guys are reacting too much to this. Remember what disdain we've had for DnA's lack of characterization and these pointless multi-issue stories being drug out far too long? I see this as TPTB listening to our concerns and trying to rectify them. I'm pretty confident that Waid and Kitson will deliver us a Legion to be proud of and a joy to read.
My only concern is for Sno Cone! Will mechana still be on the book?!? (Well, also I'll really miss Chris and Chip! They made some pretty comics!)
[ May 26, 2004, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Nightcrawler ]
Posted by Super Lad Kid on :
Waid hit the nail directly on the head for me when he said:
"‘Something unleashed on the planet Omicron VII has reversed the Expanding Universe!’ and not enough on how that idea directly involves one - or several - of our heroes and sharpens our focus on him - or them. I don’t give a rat’s ass about the Contracting Universe unless dealing with it creates some sort of drama within a Legionnaire or within the team."
This is exactly what has been wrong with DnA since the first (maybe second) arc of the current series. It seems that Waid is taking a direct shot at "Foundations" here. The Legion faced the beggest threat ever in any of its existences and I betcha anyone on this board would be hard pressed to actually tell you what that story was about, even though it was only four months ago.
The first year of the rebooted Legion ranks right up there IMO with the best of Legion runs. XS and Kinetix seemed to fit right in with the rest of the team. I never hear anyone complain about their inclusion the way I have with Monstress and Kid Quantum. Waid knows how to right characters. The very first reboot issue (Legion #0) ranks as one of my all time favorite issues - at first it was my most hated, because it was the first indication that the old Legion wasn't coming back - but time heals all wounds. The White Triangle is near the top of my favorite story arcs, despite the senseless slaughter of Apparition.
Guys, the Legion is in good hands. The characters are in good hands. things aren't going to be the same as they were before. But let's face it, it doesn't matter how many times the kid from OC reads it, this Legion was not going to make it. Despite all of the fancy new threats and beautiful art, there was no heart. Everything was just going through motions. Even at their best in Legion Lost, there was still something missing in the characters that we were reading. Something has to be done.
I don't think Waid is going to start everything over from scratch. Nor do I think he is going to tie hopelessly to Titans continuity. Waid obviously wants this to be HIS playground not shared with Geoff Johns. I think the Titans crossover can only help in terms of exposing the Legion to a potentially new audience.
The Legion is in good hands now. I am guardedly optimistic, but optimistic nonetheless.
Posted by Super Lad Kid on :
Something else to think about - long shot probably, but Warner is always trying to match DC, at least on the surface, with what appears on television. Could the Legion/Titans crossover be related to a Legion appearance on the Teen Titans show?
Posted by Gorilla Nebula on :
WOW. this is exciting news! better than i had hoped for. and i've been reading the LSH since the 70's. let's see...they are more of a youth movement than a super-team or government sponsored planetary defense. i love that, it goes back to the humble beginnings of the LSH as a super-hero club. Waid's talk of re-imagining the series for contemporary audiences makes me fear for the "boy-girl-lad" names. oh well, i guess they need to be retired along with the upside-down rocketship Headquarters. Are Saturn Girl and Cosmic Boy, Element Lad, the only one's left? Unless you count "Kid" as old-fashioned too...Karate Kid, Invisible Kid, Kid Quantum.
Waid and Kitson (hmm..WnK...WinK?...WanK?) say clearly that there are 20+ members, super-powered, character-driven (AMEN!!), but except for Brainy the roster is not decided. I hope alot more ethnicities represented as well as aliens! Also, on a scale from 1-10 (1 being status quo and 10 being radically different), Kitson's re-imaging of the style of the future is a SIX! All of this means reboot to me. My guess is the time anomaly of Superboy will cause ripples of change to the 31st century at the end of the Titans crossover. i'm interested to see Kitson's sketches. I browsed thru EMPIRE and i wasn't that impressed. it looked very much like Moy's work in my opinion. All pretty detail, but little lighting or mood, and few memorable images.
If they don't use the CLASSIC characters, it'll be a challenge to make us care. they could end up with an army of forgettable heroes like L.E.G.I.O.N. or OmegaMen. I trust Waid though. KINGDOM COME anyone? and they consulted with and have Paul Levitz's blessing. I can't wait to see it all!!! A Legion for the 21st Century! or is it the 31st?
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
Darkstars: didn't last. GL Corps: didn't last. L.E.G.I.O.N.: didn't last.
Legion of Super Heroes lasted. Why? Could it be because they DID trust a bunch of teenagers to protect the Universe? As young readers most of us has someone we could identify with as opposed to look up to (Superman, Wonder Women...).
If it's a different book they want to write, why not take a shot as writing a new book instead of obsconding with a franchise?
Didn't like Waid's last reboot and so far am not seeing any reason to look forward to the new one.
Posted by Floating Foxlike-Creature Boy on :
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Lad: As for Mr. Editor Wacker, I know that he, or someone on his staff, reads this board. Maybe he'll finally uncloak and reveal himself.
Hee hee!
Posted by Pex the Unalive on :
It's the Fox! The Fox is a mole!!!
...stop looking at me like that, guys... Posted by Kid Quislet on :
For all those sentients who were wondering how all those dangling plotlines were going to be addressed, I think it's safe to say they will all just go away ...
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Kid Quislet: For all those sentients who were wondering how all those dangling plotlines were going to be addressed, I think it's safe to say they will all just go away ...
Yeah. And someone posted on the Newsarama board how good DnA was about wrapping up AlMOST ALL of their plot lines. I was so flabbergasted I couldn't even think how to start to set the poor guy straight.
Posted by The Big Bad on :
Can I swear in these boards. If so, Fucky Mc Fuck with a side dish of SHIT!!
Why, oh, why must Geoff Johns be involved in everything these days? He's waaay overrated.
Also, while I like Waid & Kitson just fine, why couldn't they have tried to get someone like, say, Grant Morrison? Despite Sanity or Madness' dislike for the guy's writing, I still believe he's the only mainstream writer that gets the concept and has the ability to really make the thirty-first century actually look like the future.
And if this is a reboot, it's a bad idea.
Posted by Jorge Martinez on :
quote: Why oh why do many of us fans have to b***h about a good thing? We have the Legion back and we whine over vague little details. Would it hurt the fandom to at least show a little optimism?
Why? Because I am a big legion fan that has SUFFERRED much due to decisions made by DC. I finally enjoy the Legion again in over 10 years and they decide to change it. That is why.
Posted by Paul Newell on :
quote:Originally posted by Jorge Martinez: [QUOTE]Why? Because I am a big legion fan that has SUFFERRED much due to decisions made by DC. I finally enjoy the Legion again in over 10 years and they decide to change it. That is why.
Uh...weren't DnA leaving anyway, necessitating the change? DC didn't fire them from the book.
Posted by Sanity or Madness? on :
quote:Originally posted by Paul Newell:
quote:Originally posted by Jorge Martinez: [QUOTE]Why? Because I am a big legion fan that has SUFFERRED much due to decisions made by DC. I finally enjoy the Legion again in over 10 years and they decide to change it. That is why.
Uh...weren't DnA leaving anyway, necessitating the change? DC didn't fire them from the book.
Yes and no - they quit, but then were told to leave 3 issues earlier than they wanted to.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
For those not continuing to read the posts over at Newsarama dealing with the article, Barry has been posting and, while not giving out and out answers, he has given a little insight. As he see's it. I'll post them here.
quote:Originally posted by Barry Kitson at Newsarama: Hi Guys Just a quick thanks to all those who said knid things about my past work! I'll try to keep improving!
As to our new venture and those who are sceptical (that may not be a strong enough word for some of you ) I hope you'll read a few issues and give us a chance to win you over!
As to how long we intend to be on the book - we are definitely intending it to be a long run! I'd like to match my L.E.G.I.O.N. run if I could!
Cheers Barry
__________________ Cheers Barry
quote:Originally posted by Barry Kitson at Newsarama: (Answering a question about plans for L.E.G.I.O.N. after their upcoming appearance in the Adam Strange mini) Thanks kingbobo - L.E.G.I.O.N. isn't being forgotten that's all I can say at this stage
(Answering question asking for clarification ont he reboot/relaunch question) Sorry Kon-El we really do have a 'grand-scheme' in mind for our approach and we really don't want to give anything away before you read the stories, so for now we won't be doing much clarifying - but the short answer to your question is 'No!'
Already I've read a lot of people making some widely off-the-mark leaps in jusdgement about the few things that have been said about what we're doing, so I'm sure anything else I say is bound to land me in deep water.
I will try to answer as honestly as I can any questions anyone has, but as with those of you who read Empire and chatted with me about that - you'll know I don't like to spoil any surprises in store!
__________________ Cheers Barry
quote:Originally posted by Barry Kitson at Newsarama: Thanks again everyone for the support and encouragment - I'm going to be putting every effort into making this the best work I've ever done.
I think LE.G.I.O.N. readers as well as Legion readers will enjoy the character of what we have in mind... I'm certainly feeling the same buzz of excitement working on the series.
I'm really not thinking of it as a 'reboot' or 'relaunch', but something different - a new chapter - distinct, but definitely part of the LSH big picture. I'm sure some folks' feathers will get ruffled - no change can occur without that happening - but hopefully we'll get a whole bunch of new people to take a look at the series - and we certainly won't be doing anything to detract or show any disrespect the great LSH heritage!
I think/hope what we're doing will work on a few levels - for new readers there will be character driven stories that we hope will entertain and engage on their own standing - and for long-time LSH fans (like myself) all sorts of added shades and flavors added by their previous experience of the LSH. Hopefully the big picture will unfold for everyone....in the same way we began to do with Empire...self-contained issues making up a larger picture and then volumes that come together into bigger arcs etc.
Anyway, I'd best stop prattling now and look forward to seeing how everyone feels after you've had chance to read an issue or two. Thanks again for all the kind words!
__________________ Cheers Barry
Posted by Tromium Crystal on :
Barry Kitson joined in the fun and games at Newsarama. A few points of interest:
"I'm really not thinking of it as a 'reboot' or 'relaunch', but something different - a new chapter - distinct, but definitely part of the LSH big picture."
I assume this means that the characters that survive the transition will be the same characters we know now. The $64K question is, how many will survive...and who.
"As to how long we intend to be on the book - we are definitely intending it to be a long run! I'd like to match my L.E.G.I.O.N. run if I could."
It remains to be seen if this is a good thing, or a bad thing. From the sound of it, Waid and Kitson will be exempt from DiDio's rule of rotating teams.
"L.E.G.I.O.N. isn't being forgotten that's all I can say at this stage"
"I think LE.G.I.O.N. readers as well as Legion readers will enjoy the character of what we have in mind..."
He's putting an awful lot of emphasis on L.E.G.I.O.N. A 21st century component, maybe? In any event, I think it's no coincidence that Brainy is the first confirmed character. He's going to play a more pivotal role than ever before, imho, just as his ancestor Vril Dox did in L.E.G.I.O.N. I'll go so far as to speculate that B5 will be the "founder" of the next incarnation of the Legion.
"I'm sure some folks' feathers will get ruffled - no change can occur without that happening - but hopefully we'll get a whole bunch of new people to take a look at the series"
A generic statement, but I get the distinct impression they're perfectly willing to sacrifice some of the old readership for a shot at a new one. This is going to be every bit as controversial as TMK, imo.
... and we certainly won't be doing anything to detract or show any disrespect the great LSH heritage!
Sounds to me like "the great LSH heritage" will be embalmed and put to rest. I have a bad feeling about this.
Posted by Tromium Crystal on :
Ah, you beat me to it, Lightning Lad. Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Yeah but you gave comments Trom. I just posted Barry's statements. Both are cool with me.
[ May 27, 2004, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: Lightning Lad ]
Posted by The Man From Cargg on :
With fingers crossed that our favourites (Triad, Triad, Triad) make it on to the new team, I'm not too freaked out about the possibilities inherent in the latest re-imagining of the Legion.
Here is why it makes sense to me - DnA road a long time on the good will generated by their early promise. They introduced exciting new ideas like Damning the Legion, Losing the Legion, Legion World, but then started to leave a trail of ragged story threads dangling in their wake. They'd introduce something compelling (Sharn Nux/Computo, Fatal 5's secret) and with baited breath we would wait to see how it would play out. I kept thinking they're doing this for a good reason (Kinetix's transformations, Ferro stuck in mask, Jarth) which they will reveal later. But later never came. It really is unfair to dump all of this into the laps of a new team who want to create (or distort?) their own version of the Legion. Who would want to follow DnA with a broom and dustbin cleaning up after their sloppy story-telling?
Lets see what the new team has got to offer and give them a chance. Just the fact that they've mentioned "characterization" in a big way has got me drooling.
Posted by Patch Lad on :
My take on it is this.
I have been a Legion fan since I was a kid. I always will be. If you dressed up cute and fuzzy bunnies in a Legion belt and gave them a flight ring, I would probably still buy the comic. Maybe that is just me.
I didn’t really care for what DnA did with the Legion. They did put out some good stories, but I am not sorry to see them go. I got used to what they did, and I am dealing with it.
When you talk about Mark Waid, all I can say is that just about everything of his that I have read, has made me excited about comics again and I have enjoyed reading it. Kingdom Come , the Tower of Babel storyline of JLA, JLA: Year One , just to name a few. Some of the best stuff I have ever read in my opinion. I know Waid is a Legion fan. I saw him in a Legion panel at a convention in ’96 and you could tell he was excited about it then. From what I have seen so far, he seems excited about it now. I might not like everything he ends up doing, but I have a feeling that I am going to enjoy it anyway and I will have a smile on my face. For me, put that in the “no-worries” column.
When you bring Barry Kitson into it, the smile gets even wider. Besides the fact the Kitson is a top-notch artist, look at what he and Waid have worked on and the past. Empire , JLA: Year One , Brave and the Bold. All everyone-should-have-a-copy stuff if you ask me. They make a great team, and they produce quality stuff. Put that in the “no-worries” column.
The only way I could be happier is if I had a working flight ring… Posted by Gorilla Nebula on :
oh lord, i hope Waid doesn't bring back Tangleweb!!!
Posted by Barry Kitson on :
Hi everyone - and thanks to all of you who've said nice things about my past work!
To touch on a few of the points that have been raised...
The LSH will very definitely be teenagers!
I wouldn't focus too much on the 'movement' word - it seems to be causing a lot of confusion - and misdirection...
I wouldn't worry about terms like reboot or relaunch either - we're not thinking in those terms.
We are VERY pleased Paul Levitz is so encouraging and enthusiastic about our ideas! I'm sure you are all aware of how devoted to the Legion Paul is! :-)
There will be 30 pages of story each month...and I'm determined to draw as many as I can!
Apologies for any clumsiness or naivete I show in my posts to the boards...hopefully I'll be a seasoned contributor before too long.
I'm very excited and proud to be part of the LSH story - I loved working on L.E.G.I.O.N. and the interaction it afforded with the readers; I really hope the same will possible with LSH. I'll be happy to answer as many questions as I can and be as frequent a visitor as I can...the only thing I won't want to do is give away any storylines - I always liked the LSH when you didn't know what could happen next and I hope we'll be bringing that edge back to the stories.I'm also very wary about dropping hints - as from experience people seem to take the hint and then imagine the worst possible interpretation they can from it!:-)
It's a shame really that the news had to come out this far in advance of the book - as I'm a lot more comfortable discussing actual stories than I am dealing with all the speculation.
Thanks again for the invitation to join the boards (and to Faraway who gave me the nudge to remember that invite) and for everyone's encouragement and support - for those of you sceptical (or worse) I hope you'll give us the chance to win you over.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
Thanks Barry! And Darden, I owe you a pint for that nudge. Posted by capt._dallas on :
quote:Originally posted by Barry Kitson: I wouldn't worry about terms like reboot or relaunch either - we're not thinking in those terms.
...for those of you sceptical (or worse) I hope you'll give us the chance to win you over.
Okay, I trust you. I'll shut up with my paranoid pessimism and wait until the end of the year for the new series.
Posted by Barry Kitson on :
Much appreciated, capt.dallas... that's really all we can ask for....
Posted by Omni Craig on :
I'm thrilled by this news! Mark and Barry are very talented and I have always enjoyed their work, and I have to say the first year and a half-ish of the rebooted Legion that Waid helped guide was the best the reboot has been. The only time it has come close since was Legion Lost!
I look forward to the new series, especially if Garth is back to being Garth (in both body and name: Lightning Lad!).
And I have to say, I'm not surprised at all that Mark and Barry wound up working for this particular editor. Waid & Kitson? WaiKit?...Whack it?...Wacker?
Maybe we can call their era "MarKit"!
Welcome to Legion World Barry and Mark! I know I'll enjoy this ride!
Posted by Tromium Crystal on :
Welcome, Barry. Another Long Island pessamist here, but I'll try to play fair.
One question you may be able to answer: Is Steve Wacker continuing as the book's editor?
Posted by capt._dallas on :
quote:Originally posted by Omni Craig: And I have to say, I'm not surprised at all that Mark and Barry wound up working for this particular editor. Waid & Kitson? WaiKit?...Whack it?...Wacker?
Maybe we can call their era "MarKit"!
That's a clever name.
Is it confirmed that Wacker will remain editor? I don't recall seeing him mentioned in any of the announcements yesterday.
Posted by capt._dallas on :
Oops! I didn't see T.C.'s post until after I posted mine.
Sorry T.C., for repeating your question.
Posted by Cobalt Kid on :
I hope Barry's post calms some people down!
I know I'm really looking forward to their take on the book! I loved their JLA: Year One, Empire and Brave and Bold, and I think they'll work well together on Legion.
And they won't be older, there isn't a reboot, and there *will* be 30 pgs, so I see this as only good news!
I'm going to sit back, enjoy Gail's run, and then look forward to MnB
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Hey Barry. Good to see you again. Missed your art since the Titans ended. (Yeah, i got empire just like i said i would, but i cant find the zero issue from dc to see how it started, so i havent read it yet, lol.)
Anyway, yeah, ya'lls interview scared a few of us around here. After the Firestorm debacle, we are kinda gunshy, at least some of us, anyway.
So, since ya asked so nicely, yeah, i will most definately be checkin the book out. Just have Mark make Jeckie a human again and ya have a fan for life.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by rickshaw1: Hey Barry. Good to see you again. Missed your art since the Titans ended. (Yeah, i got empire just like i said i would, but i cant find the zero issue from dc to see how it started, so i havent read it yet, lol.)
Hey Rick. If you didn't pick the the TPB that was just released that included the whole shebang I'll get you a copy, probably electronic, of the #0 issue.
Posted by Blockade Boy on :
Thanks for responding Barry.
Will you continue the tradition of nude Legionnaire splash pages?
Posted by Paul Newell on :
quote:Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?:
quote:Originally posted by Paul Newell:
quote:Originally posted by Jorge Martinez: [QUOTE]Why? Because I am a big legion fan that has SUFFERRED much due to decisions made by DC. I finally enjoy the Legion again in over 10 years and they decide to change it. That is why.
Uh...weren't DnA leaving anyway, necessitating the change? DC didn't fire them from the book.
Yes and no - they quit, but then were told to leave 3 issues earlier than they wanted to.
So the decision Jorge has suffered this time is to miss out three issues. Posted by Faraway Lad on :
Barry
Glad my nudge got you over here. Scott watch out I might just get over their one day to take you up on that offer of a beer
Having just bought Empire to see what the new team is capable off I am now a lot more relaxed about the future of the future.
Lots of very very pretty pictures, I cant wait to see Barry's version of my fav, Saturn Girl.
Posted by Zeroman on :
All I can say is thanks Barry. In that one little sentence about not thinking in terms of a reboot or revamp you put my mind at ease. That Newsarama article was so vague and misleading in spots that I was really worried. If it was going to be another reboot then I was leaving the book, but now I will see what you guys have coming down the line. If your pulling our leg and it is some kind a veiled reboot then I am still leaving. I have hung onto Legion since Superboy/Legion 198, but I just can't and won't go through another reboot on my all time favorite book.
Posted by DrakeB3003 on :
quote:Originally posted by Barry Kitson: I wouldn't worry about terms like reboot or relaunch either - we're not thinking in those terms.
Not to be paranoid or anything, but just because they're not thinking in terms of "reboot" doesn't mean it isn't -- does it??
Anyhoo, it's great to see Barry here. Now if only we don't scare him off before the re-whateveritis. Posted by Arachne on :
Well if nothing else, this news is certainly bringing out the lurkers.
I'm excited about this. Sure there's some element of risk when making changes to a title, but playing things safe can sometimes be worse.
Posted by He Who Wanders on :
Glad to have you aboard, Barry. I remember fondly your interaction with TITANS fans during the your stint on that book.
I admit I'm a little wary about what I've read so far. Whether you're thinking in "reboot" terms or not, it seems clear that you and Mark are going to start from scratch somehow, whether that means a new origin for the Legion or that the current team disbands, somehow, and reforms. Your comments (and his) imply that none of the established characters are a given, save for Brainy and the three founders (and, even then, Mark suggests that the three founders won't actually be present).
This sounds like echoes of the Doom Patrol, where you've got a name and one or two of the original characters, but no other connection to what made the team unique and exciting in the first place -- much of which has to do with specific characters and relationships. Another concern is, how many times can a team be restarted before restarting becomes an old and tired device that proves frustrating for fans?
I do like the idea of 30 pages per issue, though. It would seem to give you some flexibility in telling full-length stories or multiple stories per issue.
Posted by Lightning Lad on :
quote:Originally posted by Faraway Lad: Scott watch out I might just get over their one day to take you up on that offer of a beer
Buddy, you show up on my doorstop (or anywhere within driving range) and I'll take you out to some great micro-breweries in Park City. Hell, bring Barry with you. I'll buy him a pint too. Posted by Barry Kitson on :
Hi everyone - and yet again thanks! That beer sounds like a good idea
I think Arachne is absolutely right about about the risk factor..and it's really the one thing I can absolutely promise you all - we won't be playing safe! One of the things everyone seemed to agree they liked about Empire was that there was no room for complacency about the characters and what would happen next - and we would really like to keep that edge in the LSH.
Posted by Blacula on :
Hi Barry! Love your work!
Your above comment about "no room for complacency about the characters" kinda makes me think... some people might die! EEK!
Now shock deaths sometimes work really well (Monstress) and sometimes really don't (Leviathan) but IMO the re-boot Legion has already seen WAY TOO MUCH death. Hopefully your comment about 'not being complacent' means you have a different surprise in store for the characters - say, a shock resurrection (LEVIATHAN! LEVIATHAN! LEVIATHAN!).
Best of luck anyway and whatever you have planned I'll definitely be there to give it a shot!
Completely off-topic - I know from the old DC Titans boards that you are a huge Lilith fan like myself. I was so happy when you brought her back onto the team and ditched her dumb Omen persona. I was wondering if you ever read Graduation Day and if so what you thought of what happened to her in it?
Posted by rickshaw1 on :
Lightning Lad, i may be taking you up on that. I haven't seen an empire TPB around here.
And Yeah, Barry is a pretty cool guy. He took some slings and arrows over on Titans, but rather than get pissy about it, he was calm, cool, and collected. And when the criticism was genuine and not snide or smart-assed, he responded. But honestly, there wasn't much about his art to criticise.
Posted by Pov on :
More creators should take a cue from Barry. Posted by jimgallagher on :
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: ... how many times can a team be restarted before restarting becomes an old and tired device that proves frustrating for fans?
It seems to me that we've already exceeded that limit. I think it's frustrating as hell that the Legion gets restarted/rebooted/relaunched/whatever every 5 years. The same goes for Titans, which used to be my 2nd favorite book.
And, Barry, beer always sounds like a good idea, doesn't it?
Posted by Pov on :
Arachne's sig sez:
quote:-------------------- David: It would have to be someone who orginizes their office meticulously. Obsessively even. Someone anal retentive, and... Cyclops: Heads up students. Everyone accounted for? David: -- I think we have a winner.
New X-Men #1
Okay. Now I can't wait to get this with my subs delivery. That's priceless, and I can't wait to see the context. Posted by Mearl Dox on :
'Nother semi-lurker crawling out of the woodwork to comment.
Although I was in a bit of a shock when I first heard about it, now that I've thought about it, I'm thrilled. Mark Waid is one of my favorite writers, and I've always liked Barry Kitson's art too. Although it did kind of wind down a bit, I also liked L.E.G.I.O.N. and the ideas behind that (okay, yes, maaaaybe that was influenced by my fondness for green men in positions of power.) Their reassurance that Brainy's involved in this Legion is also evidence that Mark and Barry are brilliant workers who can truly be trusted. (If they kill him, I'll shave my eyebrows off. I will, you know.)
It probably helps that over the last ten or so years, I've been reading both the reboot and the preboot issues. I've become more attached to the Legion as an idea than any particular version. I think that an... update in ideas, even a slightly radical one (can something be 'slightly radical'?) would be interesting. I'm getting more and more eager to see what's going to happen. Good luck, Mark and Barry!
Posted by Invisible Brainiac on :
Okay, I'm back after 6 pages and one very violent reaction.
Don't get me wrong, I'm thriled that the Legion will continue. I'm jupmig for joy that Waid and Kitson are gonna be the new creative team. I LOVE their work, and I have to say that they're one of the best possible teams for this book. And I'm bouncing up and down because characterization will rule the day. But what I don't like are all the whisperings of yet another reboot. Not only might I not see some of my favorite characters (Kinetix, XS, Gates, etc.) again, (though since Waid had a hand in creating them I'm hoping he'll include them), but I'm not sure if the Legion can survive another radical change like that. But whatever happens, I'll still buy the book and I'll definitely give it a chance. I just hope they don't change the Legion TOO much.
[ May 29, 2004, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Invisible Brainiac ]
Posted by Barry Kitson on :
Thanks again for the support folks!
I'll just answer the off-topic question for now...as I'm sure we'll get to all the LSH ones again when those of you who attended the DCU panel at the UK Comic Con get back to the boards
I honestly haven't read Graduation Day yet it's still on my 'to read pile'- I've rather avoided it just because I knew what was going to happen to Lilith in advance so I guess I've preferred to be in a state of denial Maybe it's time I bit the bullet, I really should read it...
I have been reading the relauched Titans though and enjoying the book!
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