Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Old Avengers Question

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that when Jim Shooter returned to the Avengers around #211, that he had planned for Angel and Iceman to actually join the team and there was even a promo pic of the team with them on it.

Am I remembering this right? Or did I dream it?

This is news to me. All the attention was focused on 1)Gene Colan being harrassed endlessly so that he wound up QUITTING Marvel, and 2)Shooter dragging Hank & Jan's marriage THRU THE MUD needlessly-- lousy heartless B******. One of the really bright spots of 60's Marvel, treated like C*** by someone who has the worst people skills in the entire industry. And generations of fans since have come up thinking that's "the way it is". MY history of Hank & Jan stops for the most part after Steve Englehart leave to go to DC...


Typical of Shooter, he didn't stick around very long, and never got to "finish" the mess he started. I always remember one online fan who described his abhorent behavior as, "dumping characters into HELL, and LEAVING them there, as if he HATED them all".

I always thought of Byrne that way too

I have a slightly different take on Shooter's Avengers. I think what he did with Hank Pym was genius. The original hero stories (myths) were all about the fall of the heroes.

Like prof I don't like my heroes dragged through the mud but I thought Hank was the perfect hero for it. And while I love Roy Thomas I blame him for "setting up" the fall of many characters.


Anyways, I would've loved to see Angel on the team. Suprised he never has joined...rather have him than Wolverine any day.

And what do you think about the way Shooter gave Roxanne Simpson AMNESIA, while the man she loved, completely unaware, just got on his bike and drove off into the desert, to never come back?

Or how about the way Shooter had Heather Glenn's father, while hypnotized by The Purple Man, COMMIT SUICIDE while in prison for crimes he didn't commit? And then had Heather find out Matt was Daredevil-- and blame HIM for everything, leading to his having a (brief) nervous breakdown?)


Please note in all 3 books, Shooter caused all this damage and never bothered to finish the messes he started...

prof, i did not know of these other incidents. The man is sadistic! The Hank Pym thing I just think he was a bullseye for what happened to him...and I was a Hank Pym fan! (but I was also a kid when it happened).

Never bothered to finish the mess he started...that's sad. Cause I see modern writers start a mess...and actually finish...and usually I like the end even though I didn't like the beggining.

the idea of shooter coming in like a tasmanian devil and then being like 'ok, next writer can write his way outta this' is kinda fun. lol