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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779012 07/08/13 01:55 PM
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Adv. 333

“The War Between Krypton and Earth” was the second Legion story I ever read, and, like 328’s “The Lad Who Wrecked the Legion,” I have strong, positive feelings for it. I understand why others may dislike this story, as there are significant weaknesses in the telling and contradictions with established DC lore. It also borrows heavily, plotwise, from classic Hollywood films, as do too many of these stories.

On balance, though, "War" is a superior story that broadens the scope of the Legion’s universe while providing us with some of the best action we’ve seen yet.

On re-reading it this time, I came away thinking it really should be a two-part story. The scope of the story is very large—encompassing ancient Krypton, ancient earth, Atlantis, and even dinosaurs. It also makes use of a very large number of Legionnaires—ten play an active role with two more cameoing—perhaps the largest gathering in a single story so far in which each character has something vital to do and is not simply disposed of in a spaceship crash or expulsion.

But the sheer scope of the story and number of characters results in some rushed and contrived plot developments, and interactions that go unexplained.

The story begins with a excellent premise. Superboy arrives in the 30th century to find several Legionnaires on an archaeological dig, where they have uncovered an ancient tablet. Superboy recognizes the language as Kryptonian and translates: the tablet is a declaration of war between Superboy’s homeworld and the people of earth.

Neither Superboy nor the Legionnaires knew of such a conflict, so a mystery beckons and—after voting to pursue the matter—they divide into two teams. Half of the Legionnaires present take a time bubble back to ancient Krypton while the rest go back to ancient earth. The stage is set for a grand adventure on two fronts.

This setup reminds me of Star Trek and it’s mission to “boldly go where no man has gone before”—ironic since this story was published the year before Star Trek debuted. It’s also an excellent setup for children to read, I think (I was nine when I first read it), as it illustrates how important and exciting history can be. The Legionnaires are shown to be very smart and curious—Superboy already knows his native language, and he teaches it to the Legionnaires who accompany him. The Legionnaires know enough about history that they can spot an anomaly that needs investigation.

What is understated but present nonetheless is that fact that Superboy (Kal-El) did speak another language when was a toddler. This, I think, should resonate with readers today who enter the United States and learn English as a second language. Some are taught, unfortunately, to be ashamed of their native language and culture, or to ignore them. Superboy’s matter-of-fact attitude shows us why it’s important to know where we came from, and how ties to our ancestors influence us today.

Superboy and his team of Legionnaires—Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad (now sporting his robot arm, of course), Element Lad, and Colossal Boy—journey to ancient Krypton, where they discover people still lived in pre-scientific villages and lacked the capability of space travel. But as they journey further, they discover a band of outlawed scientists living in the Jewel Mountains (an imaginative visual!) and planning to build a rocket ship to earth, where they will be free to pursue their love of science.

Violating one of the tenets of time travel stories, the Legionnaires interfere with history by pitching in and helping the scientists complete their rocket ship and then accompany them to earth.

Once they arrive, Superboy is dismayed to discover that earth’s young sun is still red, meaning neither he nor the Kryptonians will have super-powers. More, the Legionnaires find an advanced city has already been built on the supposedly uninhabited earth. The city, they learn, was completed with help from the other team of history-interfering Legionnaires, led by Brainiac 5 and consisting of Chameleon Boy, Phantom Girl, Light Lass, and Star Boy.

It would have been logical had the two Legion teams compared notes and stepped back to observe history take its course. But logical interactions don’t always make for good drama, and this is the Legion’s story, so they can’t be mere observers. Instead, the two teams argue over who has the right to colonize earth, the Kryptonians or the other star-traveling aliens, the Vruunians (who have built the city, which they call Atlantis). The shouting between Brainiac 5 and Saturn Girl appears to get quite personal. I suspect it’s the culmination of their feud, which began back in 309, when he said a mission was too dangerous for a girl, and which continued in 319, when she openly defied a similar proclamation of his.

Furthermore, no one amongst the Legionnaires or the two groups of aliens bothers to consider that this uninhabited earth is big enough for both colonies. Why not postpone the war for a generation or two, to see if they can come to a mutually beneficial arrangement?

But war does come, with Superboy’s group agreeing to fight alongside the Kryptonians and Brainy’s group supporting the Atlanteans. The Legionnaires do convince each side to use non-lethal weapons to avoid violating the Legion’s code against killing (the second story in a row in which the code has played a crucial role), and the fighting begins.

This is the best part of the story—the battle itself. Legionnaire vs. Legionnaire. These scenes give us a good sampling of what each hero can do. Phantom Girl uses her ghost-like powers to spook the Kryptonians’ dinosaurs, which escape their pens only to be driven back by Lightning Lad’s lightning bolts. Colossal Boy sets down a bridge so Kryptonian soldiers can cross a river, but Light Lass makes the bridge super-light weight so the soldiers on her side can upend it. Star Boy even attacks Element Lad directly, making the latter too heavy to stay aloft with his flight ring. And Chameleon Boy’s spy abilities have alerted the Atlanteans to the invasion, so the Kryptonians have to fall back.

At this point, the story takes a very dark and realistic turn. The weapons the Atlanteans use—and which were supposed to only stun—have killed some of the Kryptonians. The Kryptonian leader, Zat-El (a possible relative of Superboy’s) demands revenge, and the Kryptonians build a missile to destroy Atlantis.

Saturn Girl, at this point, picks a fine time to relegate herself to the role of observer. Why she doesn’t simply call the whole thing off—she is the Legion’s leader, after all—goes unexplained. Instead, she leaves it up to non-powered Superboy, who has snuck into Atlantis to be with a girl he’s infatuated with, to somehow save the day.

Here comes the story’s weakest moment, though at least it is foreshadowed in Triplicate Girl’s dialogue at the beginning: Mon-El arrives to play deus ex machina. In yet another depiction inconsistent with other stories, he retains his powers under earth’s red sun and catches the missile before it hits Atlantis. More, he has time to borrow Superboy’s costume so it looks as if the latter has saved the enemy, bringing everyone to their senses.

Everything is resolved very quickly. The Atlanteans can’t stay on the surface of the earth because of a virus in the atmosphere, so Brainy finds a way to turn them into mer-people, and Star Boy (performing a herculean task that somehow fails to cause buildings to collapse) sinks Atlantis below the sea. A footnote tells us that these Atlanteans become the ancestors of Lori Lemaris’s people.

The Legionnaires also conveniently forget their feud and return to their own time. On his own, Superboy tracks down the cave where Zat-El and the other Kryptonians left written accounts of their history. He discovers that the war and the subsequent rebellion of the once tame dinosaurs doomed the Kryptonian colony.

There is so much in this story that I think it could justifiably be a six- or twelve-part mini-series today. In fact, Peter David explored the history of Atlantis to great effect in the twelve-part Atlantis Chronicles, which develops similar epic themes, back in the early '90s. The biggest failing of “The War Between Krypton and Earth” is that there’s too much story for the pages allotted here.

And yet the story’s considerable strengths still shine. The ending has always left me feeling sad. While it conveniently explains away what happened to the Kryptonian colony on earth, it also conveys a sense of deep tragedy, of how the hopes and dreams of these renegade scientists came to nothing, and how the futility of war ultimately doomed them.

The fact that the Kryptonian deaths were not deliberate but caused by differences in biology has also seemed very realistic and sobering to me. This development makes good use of science fiction as well as psychological aspects of war. Conflict can easily escalate, and there is no such thing as a contained war. When passions reign supreme, people die. It’s that simple.

Other aspects of the story are iffy. The Superboy/Leta Lal romance appears to have been borrowed from any number of Hollywood films and could never really go anywhere, given the confines of Superboy's character. However, it does provide the story with a humanizing element and gives the non-powered Superboy something heroic to do. He risks his life to swim into the city and is even wounded for his trouble.

As for the contradictions between this origin of Atlantis and others, I’ll leave that for others to work out. As a kid, I loved the idea of the history of Atlantis—and the origin of dinosaurs, to boot!—being woven into the story. Both ideas certainly add to the grand scope of the tale.

"The War Between Krypton and Earth" is a flawed masterpiece, but a masterpiece nonetheless.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779013 07/08/13 02:09 PM
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I find it interesting that the Legionnaires seemed so willing to participate/interfere in history. And Brainy was one of the key instigators! I won't even go into all the implications of what the LSHers did here, but I sure hope they put some new clauses in their code or constitution about time travel etiquette!

Wow...Superboy's in LURVE! I wondered a little with how they left that panel of he and Leta together if maybe something...sensual?...happened immediately afterwards--even if it was only some smooching or heavy petting!

So...Mon-El. Don't his powers derive from a yellow sun as well? So why was he able to take care of that missile? Maybe Ultra Boy would've been a better choice?

Gotta think that the Legionnaires who sided with Atlantis were more in the right than the ones who helped the Kryptonians, mainly because the Atlantians were there first and had already started building their settlement. But why didn't the Kryptonians simply go elsewhere on Earth? I suppose each wanted the entire planet for itself. But, you know, they were willing to fight a no-fatality war like happens so often in history, right?

And didn't it seem like the idea to go to war started with the Legionnaires? In a way they're responsible for those Kryptonians dying from the weapon blasts because they instigated the conflict, aren't they? Impetuous teens!

I'd say that if Hamilton (Siegel?) had thought through the time travel/interference quandaries and the Mon-El rescue, this would have been a nearly perfect Legion story. Great use of powers and exciting Legionnaire-on-Legionnaire battles. I just wish more of these stories would have better internal logic in the writing.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779018 07/08/13 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin

And didn't it seem like the idea to go to war started with the Legionnaires? In a way they're responsible for those Kryptonians dying from the weapon blasts because they instigated the conflict, aren't they? Impetuous teens!


Yeah, and I also suspect that Tinya's spooking the dinosaurs and Garth's shooting lighting bolts at them played a role in the dinosaurs turning wild, which means these Legionnaires are partly responsible for the doom of the Kryptonian colony.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779256 07/10/13 09:46 AM
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Adv. 334

Interoffice Memo
From: Mort Weisinger
To: Edmond Hamilton
Subject: July issue of Adventure
Date: January 4, 1965

Ed, it's time to discuss the plot of the next Legion story. Here's what I want to see. Fans have been clamoring for more of Supergirl, and we haven't featured her since 325, so you better find some way to include her. It doesn't have to be brilliant or spectacular. In fact, it might be a good idea to include her without including her, if you know what I mean. Maybe she's suffering from amnesia and doesn't know who she is, and the Legion has to help her figure out it out. Kids like that kind of mystery, as they really dug the Legion leader contest we did awhile back.

I'll leave it up to you to decide how she loses her memory. One thing, though: Don't use Red Kryptonite again. We've done that with Supergirl twice already. On second thought, go ahead and use Red K. Fans who remember the earlier stories will notice this and think there's a pattern. They'll start to wonder if Kara is jinxed every time she visits the Legion, and maybe that's why she won't visit the Legion more often, so we won't have to deal with her. With Superboy, Mon-El, and Ultra Boy, we've got too darned many powerhouses already, and it's getting old to send them away on special missions all the time. Last thing we need is a girl who can clean house with every other Legionnaire.

You must, however, include a mention that Superboy forgets Supergirl whenever he returns to his own time. Fans love those trivial details, and they will gripe if we don't mention it at least once an issue.

John's come up with a design for a character with a lead mask that looks something like those statues on Easter Island. (See the attached sketch.) Kids will think he's creepy since he has no eyes, so let's include him in the story. No, I don't know his name. That's for you to figure out.

As to which Legionnaires should be featured, let's stick with a formula of a small, rotating cast with Saturn Girl, Brainiac 5, and Sun Boy as the core, and, of course, Superboy. Use one or two of the Legionnaires who haven't been featured in awhile, maybe Cosmic Boy and Phantom Girl. And include Chameleon Boy, as he's an alien and immediately establishes that the story takes place in space/the future. No, he doesn't have to actually do anything. In fact, since we've got Proty II, we don't need two shape-shifters, so find some way to get rid of Chameleon Boy's power for awhile.

Whatever you do, Ed, don't make it a heavy handed story like the last one you did. Look, I'm all sympathetic to your anti-war feelings, but a story in which Kryptonians go to war with Atlanteans and then get wiped out by dinosaurs at the end?! This is a children's book, for crying out loud. We snuck that one past the code, but don't try it again. Make this one just a simple fun mystery. Keep in mind, I've got a thirteen-year-old kid in the wings who can do your job if you screw up!

Your first draft of the full script is due next week and, as always, there won't be time to do a second draft, so make it perfect!

Give my regards to Leigh.

Mort.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
He Who Wanders #779260 07/10/13 11:14 AM
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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779264 07/10/13 12:14 PM
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Adventure #334

The first thing to say about #334 is wow, what a fantastic cover. Obviously inspired by the statue of the unknown soldier in D.C., it makes an imposing and moody opening.

Here Hamilton ties up one of his two great outstanding subplots, that of the Proteans. Though all these various Protean stories are connected only peripherally in the Silver Age, the brilliant Tom & Mary would weave an amazing tale of Kid Quantum out of them--perhaps the single most brilliant retcon / build on continuity ever.

Related to that, its also worth mentioning the brilliant thread started by Kent Shakespeare some years back positing that in TMK continuity Unknown Boy *must* be Kid Quantum.

It's also worth noting Supergirl plays a big role in this story. That's noteworthy because by now these have become few and far between. In fact, about once an archive does she show up--which is too bad! Meanwhile, Superboy has now settled into his recurring lead status which he is able to share with the Legionnaires rather than dominate the story.

This story also contains an editors note explaining how Superboy and Supergirl can interact in the future via post hypnotic suggestion. This follows one month after Mort might have decided this on a whim on the Lettercol.

The story opens with a some fun whimsy of the Legionnaires recalling an old story. This is a nice change of pace.

The Protean story is full of mistrust and tension, though it does come with some repetitiveness. I was thankful Unknown Boy showed when he did to relieve the possible boredom.

We see the origin of the Proteans again with the Llorn -- for like the third time. As Eryk mentioned before, this underscores how critically important it was in LSH lore. TMK were right to hone in on it.

Like many of the past issues, there is a nice balance of action and subtlety. The Marvel influence is well felt here.

Hamilton does a good job leaving clues for the reader. It's easy to forget that so many readers knew just about every facet of the Superman mythos and could piece this together.

"Million to one chance..." - wait, didn't this already happen when Supergirl became Satan Girl? Jeez, talk about bad luck!

All in all, another pretty good one! Archive #4 is shaping up to be full of good ones and the very best so far.

Bonus Lettercol Review: Mort explains John Forte missed a few issues because of illness. This is sad to read knowing that illness would hit back hard in a few months and Forte would pass.

Mort also clarifies that 18 is the age limit or admission to the LSH but once you're a member, you're not expelled or anything if you turn 18 or older.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779265 07/10/13 12:16 PM
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HWW--lol

"Give my regards to Leigh"! Love it!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Cobalt Kid #779269 07/10/13 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid
"Million to one chance..." - wait, didn't this already happen when Supergirl became Satan Girl? Jeez, talk about bad luck!

Wait, you didn't know about the freakish mutation of statistical chance that occurs around the 1:1000000 mark? wink

Attached Images Chances.png

My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Cobalt, Reboot & iB present 21st Century Legion: Earth War .
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779287 07/10/13 06:35 PM
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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779302 07/10/13 07:54 PM
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I hadn't thought about the statue of the Unknown Legionnaire being inspired by the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Good call, Cobie.

I like Unknown Boy's costume, but that color scheme doesn't work for me. The white shirt, those white boots: Ugh. At least I'm reading it in black and white so I can imagine a more complementary color scheme, say a metallic purple with grey highlights.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779313 07/10/13 08:08 PM
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HWW, your "memo" said it all! lol

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779339 07/10/13 09:12 PM
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So, where are all the other reviewers who have been reviewing these stories? Lardy? EDE? stile86? I know life gets busy, but you all have some catching up to do!


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779402 07/10/13 11:16 PM
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Random thoughts on War:

Boy, the Legionnaires sure learn fast. Maybe Saturn Girl helped them learn it with her telepathy. Unless they started studying ages ago.

Funny how Ayla and Garth have no qualms about being on opposing sides.

Why does Imra need to call a vote just to decide whether to help Superboy investigate? If it was out of caution of time travel, then they sure threw caution to the winds later on.

Even Brainy is engaging in fisticuffs. "Try it! You forget I'm as strong as you are under a red sun!" That's telling 'em, Brainy.

Thankfully, the Legionnaires on the Kryptonian's side had the sense to realize that their teammates wouldn't intentionally abet killers.

Triplicate Girl's staying behind was the key to solving everything. But of course that would turn out to be important!

I'm a bit surprised the Kryptonian scientists didn't think to build anything that would keep the dinosaurs in check. Oh well!


Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Invisible Brainiac #779441 07/11/13 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac


Funny how Ayla and Garth have no qualms about being on opposing sides.


Siblings often take opposite sides. My brother and I see the world very differently and agree on very little when it comes to politics.

It's a missed opportunity, though, that Hamilton didn't mention that Garth and Ayla are siblings. This could have represented the real-world brother-against-brother tragedy of the U.S. Civil War.

Quote
Why does Imra need to call a vote just to decide whether to help Superboy investigate? If it was out of caution of time travel, then they sure threw caution to the winds later on.


This is probably why she wasn't elected to a third term. She could be darned indecisive at times. smile



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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
He Who Wanders #779484 07/11/13 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
So, where are all the other reviewers who have been reviewing these stories? Lardy? EDE? stile86? I know life gets busy, but you all have some catching up to do!
Excuse moi? I've commented on EVERY story since the last story in Archives #2! Just cuz I haven't said anything about the Unknown Boy story, don't mean I'm behind. It's Thursday, after all! tongue


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779485 07/11/13 09:04 PM
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A for the current story, I'm sad to say that it didn't really do anything for me at all. I mean, even as mystery-lite, it didn't work for me, mainly because it cheats.

"Cheats", you inquire? Well, yes, it does. Basically, it's not a fair mystery because of the seeing through lead thing which was the crux of the Unknown Boy identity. I'd have preferred some way around that that did not involve Red K with clues as to how it was bypassed. How is a reader supposed to fairly infer this is Supergirl otherwise? Were there any clues that Red K was involved? No. Just crappy writing. With what we were given, Duplicate Boy would've made more sense, other than his not being a Legionnaire. If the Lallors made a cameo toward the beginning, that could have worked.

The Protean stuff would have redeemed the story, but it just made them look so hapless. I dunno, if any of them had been more than cyphers here, it would have worked better. Or even if they were shown to distrust the Legion somewhat because of what happened to Proty I, y'know?

It's a shame they brought Kara back for a rare appearance for a story like this one. Like Cobie mentioned, it's basically a repeat of the Satan Girl story in essence, though she's not evil in this one. I'd rather her be front and center, saving the day as herself in a big epic than see her as the solution to a half-baked mystery.

Worst Hamilton story I can remember reading! puke


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779486 07/11/13 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
So, where are all the other reviewers who have been reviewing these stories? Lardy? EDE? stile86? I know life gets busy, but you all have some catching up to do!


stile86, we can give a pass because he's (?) new, but Edie? He may be the worst person in the galaxy right now for disappearing from this discussion! wink


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779491 07/11/13 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin
Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
So, where are all the other reviewers who have been reviewing these stories? Lardy? EDE? stile86? I know life gets busy, but you all have some catching up to do!
Excuse moi? I've commented on EVERY story since the last story in Archives #2! Just cuz I haven't said anything about the Unknown Boy story, don't mean I'm behind. It's Thursday, after all! tongue


My apologies. I'm just anxious to read your thoughts. nod


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779492 07/11/13 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin


"Cheats", you inquire? Well, yes, it does. Basically, it's not a fair mystery because of the seeing through lead thing which was the crux of the Unknown Boy identity. I'd have preferred some way around that that did not involve Red K with clues as to how it was bypassed. How is a reader supposed to fairly infer this is Supergirl otherwise? Were there any clues that Red K was involved? No. Just crappy writing. With what we were given, Duplicate Boy would've made more sense, other than his not being a Legionnaire. If the Lallors made a cameo toward the beginning, that could have worked.


Agreed on all counts. It's mighty convenient that Red K gave Supergirl the ability to see through lead.

Quote
The Protean stuff would have redeemed the story, but it just made them look so hapless. I dunno, if any of them had been more than cyphers here, it would have worked better. Or even if they were shown to distrust the Legion somewhat because of what happened to Proty I, y'know?


In a way, it's nice to see the Proteans again since so many worlds and alien races were introduced in these stories and never seen again. It's good to have some continuity with past stories and a continuation of previous plot lines.

That said, there's nothing in this story that really advances the Proteans subplot. This story could be forgotten and we would not miss anything.

Quote
It's a shame they brought Kara back for a rare appearance for a story like this one. Like Cobie mentioned, it's basically a repeat of the Satan Girl story in essence, though she's not evil in this one. I'd rather her be front and center, saving the day as herself in a big epic than see her as the solution to a half-baked mystery.


Again, agreed. As I alluded to in my "memo" review, this is a story that features Supergirl without actually featuring her. She's in disguise for virtually the entire story and isn't revealed until the end. Cover featuring her (as well as Light Lass, who doesn't even appear in the story) seems like another cheat.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
He Who Wanders #779520 07/12/13 12:13 AM
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There are quite a lot of stories by now with fairly similar plot elements: Unknown boy and Satan Girl; Command Kid and Dynamo Boy (Legion admits someone they didn't foresee would betray them); later on we'll have the Thora of Taltar story and the Queen Azura of Femnaz story.

And even later on (getting ahead of myself here), I noticed that both the Fatal Five/Sun-Eater story and the Fatal Five/Talok VIII story have two of five cast members the same: Superboy and Cosmic Boy.

Now back to Supergirl, I don't understand why they couldn't use her more. They had the romance with Brainiac 5 to differentiate her from Superboy, after all. Did someone in editorial feel that she'd make the boys look bad? Saturn Girl does that often, and Night Girl arguably does that to the rest of the Subs!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779538 07/12/13 07:03 AM
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Re: Adventure #334 HWW's excellent memo sums it up pretty well. If only... the story wasn't half bad otherwise. It was good to get the history of the Antareans and curious to see the failure of the Llorn civilization attributed to solar-induced climate change. In addition, they suffer some consequences of over-population. How very topical!

There's some arrogance, perhaps, to the original Llorn civilization. Like most colonizers, they intended to impose their civilization on the natives rather than let the Antareans develop - or exist - naturally. When things got bad, the Llorn used an evolution ray on the Antareans so they could adapt to the changed world, but not on themselves. Nor did they develop something specifically targeted to Llorn physiology; they just left.

In order to avoid using Supergirl, I would have had a renegade group of Llorn who refused to leave, but found some way to adapt themselves to the changing climate - different from the native Antareans, but suited to the planet and living in peaceful co-existence. One of them would have been "Unknown Boy".

Another aspect of this story that might have gotten more attention today is Brainy's sloppiness, spraying Chameleon Boy by accident. Not fatal like Computo, but still indicative of the unintended consequences of scientific invention. Brainy was also pretty lax in not having his force field on at all times.

There seem to be a lot of mushrooms on alien planets. These were Antareans in disguise, but mushrooms appear to be the vegetation of choice to indicate strangeness. One has to wonder if the artists were consuming them as an aid to imagination, or if there's just a tradition linking mushrooms and fantasy in stories.


Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779549 07/12/13 07:24 AM
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Belated comments on Adv. #333, The War Between Krypton and Earth

This really could have been expanded far beyond one issue; there were so many different elements and, writing today, a lot more attention could be given to the personalities involved, not to mention all the ethical considerations.

The big stumbling block for me was to explain why the two races couldn't share a big planet like Earth. But you've got to have a story, so it's best to just overlook that.

It struck me as particularly ironic that Brainiac 5 was on the side opposing the oppressed Kryptonian scientists.

Phantom Girl panicked dinosaurs by passing through them. Usually she's just shown passing through somebody without effect, but it would make sense that one would feel something creepy and unnatural. I'm surprised, now that I've read this, that such an effect wasn't overtly used in later stories.

The scene between Leta Lal and Superboy under the full moon certainly does leave plenty of room for speculation!

Was there any follow-up to this origin of Lori Lemaris' people? Legends of people from outer space who changed them into merpeople? It could explain Lori's friendship with the Legion, if she discovered this ancient history and wanted to meet the people who essentially created her race.




Holy Cats of Egypt!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779642 07/13/13 12:29 AM
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Wow, no one's commented on "Starfinger", yet? Surprising!

Let me start by saying that I thought this was quite an excellent Legion tale, even as part 1 of a 2-parter! Lots of great usage of Legionnaire powers and a cunning, powerful foe at long last! It's kind of a shame that--well, I won't spoil it just in case anyone doesn't know, but the last page makes it clear that this story has something in common with last issue's Unknown Boy tale and the Satan Girl story further back.

I thought the coolest visual of the issue was that scene where Colossal Boy stops Sun City from falling off its track to its doom. Honestly, that was one of the best shots of Colossal Boy using his power I've ever seen! If this were a modern story, that would have been a two-page splash! But even as presented, it was effective and stunning.

Speaking of visuals, I'm finding that I really enjoy Forte's pencils more with other people inking him. The Archives credits Sheldon Moldoff doing the honors this issue. Though I hate that the reason for this was, sadly, that Forte's health was declining, I really like the increased texture or depth and the less generic facial features that Moldoff's inks seem to add to Forte's work.

It's funny how the cover actually references the James Bond villain Goldfinger as a way to build reader anticipation for the menace within. It's odd from the standpoint alone of it being on a book set in the 30th century referencing a 20th century film but even more so because the two characters have nothing in common. Well, I suppose they were both after a valuable substance, but you don't see the titular villain being called "Rejuviumfinger" here, do you? smile

I guess my only beef here is Starfinger's costume. Basically, 's a combination of a Michelin Man motif with a Black Manta-type helmet---except, you know, Starfinger's helmet has BOOB-eyes! Styx I think Madonna and Lady Gaga got the boob-cones idea from him subliminally decades later. lol

I'd go so far as to say part 1 of the Starfinger story is the best one for me so far in this re-read, albeit with the caveat that I didn't re-read most of vols. 1 & 2. Obviously, I know who Starfinger is, but I'm hopeful that part 2 lives up to the promise of the first. I've found my memory is pretty sketchy on the details and nuances of these stories for which many of these are only my second read. I remembered "Starfinger" as one of the goofier, forgettable stories, but this particular re-read is proving a revelation for me!

Let's hope Hamilton sticks the landing next ish!


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779649 07/13/13 03:01 AM
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Re Starfinger, it's nice to see Invisible Kid and Matter-Eater Lad get some good use. It's also a good formula for juggling a huge cast: the old split up into teams plan. It's also a good way to reveal more of the 20th century to us.

Boy, Nila sure is clingy! wouldn't it be creepy if this were her first date with Dirk?

Cos' mom says the Legion has had more than one casualty already. But wait! Triplicate Girl's third body hasn't died yet, so only Lightning Lad has died before, right? Am I missing something? Is she counting traitor Dynamo Boy?

Oh, Thomas Keene. What if that fantastic element had been poisonous to humans? Oh well, scientific discovery and all that. Ditto Sun Boy's desperate act; what if he'd melted the rejuvium? Still, better I suppose to have it destroyed than to have it in the hands of criminals.

I wonder how fast Tenzil eats. He must be pretty speedy, to eat a hole through a ship in time to save whomever's trapped inside!

Apparently the Sun has healing powers in the 30th century, because they took the time to build a city for sick people that follows the sun!

Starfinger shows that he's one step ahead of the Legion all the time. And Saturn Girl's reveal, uh-oh! I wonder how many readers back then did a mental checklist of all the Legionnaires who weren't present? Brainiac 5 and Invisible Kid would have been my first guesses, but there they are in plain sight at the same time as Starfinger.

The cover of Part 2 clearly shows it's a male, so there goes my Supergirl theory as well.

The future Espionage Squad members are put to good use by searching for Starfinger. Suspicions abound!

And inertron makes an appearance! Wonderful! It feels somehow historic, seeing its first (? not sure if it's appeared earlier) appearance.

I'm a bit surprised that the government capitulated.Yes, losing most of the 7 Wonders is terrible, but from all accounts they all could be repaired (except perhaps the fusion powersphere, whose destruction would be disastrous). Superboy even says so at the end! Although I suppose losing all 7 in such short order while Starfinger is still on the loose would be tough to handle.

Starfinger's hiding place is brilliant, frankly. And the Legionnaires were too busy to even consider that.




Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 07/13/13 03:55 AM.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4
Lard Lad #779652 07/13/13 03:17 AM
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I seriously have to hit the library and see if they have or can inter-library loan these archives! (Also the collected works of Edmund Hamilton!)

This stuff sounds so awesome. I've always had a fascination with old stories, like the one about the Murran spies, but have had little chance to actually read any of them.





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