Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Re-Reading the Legion: Archives #4

I have a really dry and sarcastic sense of humor and found it really funny.

Re Weddings that Wrecked the Legion - the Murran spies were quite silly. They could have just manufactured pills that gave them telepathy or precognition or tracking powers to find out the Legion's "secret plan", instead of questioning some Legionnaires. They could have gotten what they wanted without forcing a direct confrontation!



More proof that it was really the SW6 era and the Postboot era that made Lyle more popular!

Cos and Imra way down on the list? Maybe it's because voters wanted something new.

Not too surprised that Projectra is way high up. Besides being new and recently featured, she had some good key appearances (the Fatal Five story, for example).

Hmm...add up those numbers and you almost get the total readership of the current run

Phantom Girl got a lot of votes, which is surprising! (Almost twice as much as Supergirl, the second-most-popular Legion lass.)

At least she didn't win. Bad things happen when she wins

It should be noted that Invisible Kid was leader at the time of this election. In his editorial comments, Mort expressed surprise that former leaders even got votes, suggesting he expected fans to vote for someone new.

Invisible Kid's low turnout may be understandable in this context, but it's somewhat disappointing. Of all the leaders shown thus far, I thought he demonstrated the most effectiveness, calling the shots in action without being overbearing and even standing up to Ultra Boy in 351.

Fans probably voted for whoever their favorite character was. I remember when I first read these results, I was delighted that Mon-El, my personal favorite, came in second. In fact, the top vote getters mirror the most popular or most commonly featured Legionnaires in the stories we've been reading, even though those stories were published three or more years before the election.

Mort wryly comments that Lyle and Vi got so few votes because "they're harder to see."

It's sad to be reminded that nearly 8000 readers voted in this election. This figure was probably only a fraction of the total readership in the '60s.

This was also before the Internet, so fans actually had to buy *stamps*, write a letter, put it in an envelope, and mail it in order to vote.

I just had a thought ... seems perfectly reasonable the Legionnaires could take pills to give them extra powers ... like for example:

There could be an all shrunken issue where Shrinking Violet leads a team of artificially shrunken Legionnaires to solve a mystery on Imsk!

(Gym could lead a team to the Giant Planet)

The other Legionnaires could be out of sorts when they are first shrunk, having to get used to being super small, what Violet deals with easily.

Of course Violet's power would surpass the artificial shrinking pill's effects. (she could shrink smaller etc.)

"Violet's Day"

IIRC, there was an awesome bit in the Legion cartoon where the Legion have to get shrunk to go into the Bottle City of Kandor for some reason, and Violet is like, 'No thanks' to the shrink ray, since she can use her own power, which means that, in Kandor, she has the power to 'un-shrink' a tiny bit and become the Kandorian equivalent of Colossal Boy!

I love that idea.

Several Legion worlds offer up unique possibilities.

A Titanian adventure could be entirely inside someone's mind, dealing with 'monsters of the ID,' manifestations of their own fears, or of some entity that is possessing them, etc.

An adventure set on Sorcerer's World might involve all sorts of beasts and creatures of myth and legend, like dragons and gorgons and basilisks. Flights of harpies, hydras, and even beasties from more obscure (I.e. non-Greco-Roman) mythologies, such as Japanese Yuki-no-Onna (snow maidens) or African Mokole-Mbembe or whatnot. Most of the Legionnaires, even those well versed in actual xenobiology (like Chameleon Boy) might be ill-prepared for yeti and manticores and chupacabra.

The team being translated into a state of pure energy, whether in a Teall-like dimension, would create a scenario where Wildfire and Quislet are at home, and everybody else is dramatically out of their element. Being 'virtualized' into a computer might give people like Brainy and Gear an advantage over the others, unfamiliar with the 'rules' of virtual existence.

An aquatic adventure might have it's own unique circumstances, hindering Sun Boy and Lightning Lass (and forcing them to adapt and find new ways to make a difference or cleverer ways to manifest their powers), while Tellus, even though not technically 'aquatic,' might have an advantage in adapting his thinking to the environment.

Obviously, a Bgtzln adventure or one in the Phantom Zone, might give Tinya a home court advantage, or, ironically, a *disadvantage,* since she isn't really 'super-powered' in Bgtzl!

The super-power pill idea certainly opens up a lot of possibilities, but there would have to be some limitation on it, or they'd just be popping pills all the time.

Addictive? Who cares? That's the problem of addiction.

Temporary? Okay, just take another pill.

Makes you vomit? That wouldn't stop a legionnaire, would it?

Nullifies your own personal power? That might have some restraining effect.


RE: The Weddings that Wrecked

Raymond McDaniel (Special Powers and Abilities) wrote a poem about this story, a selection from which I'll quote:

Four Legionnaires lost
thought Brainy was out of sorts before? Holy cats!!
"Your cold emotional computer mind can't comprehend what love is!"
Et tu, Saturn Girl?
Still, she says she's sorry
but B5 just rolls his eyes and seeks to fill the ranks

Especially if there were some evil Kandorians with super powers and then violet grew super sized and put the smack down while the other Legionnaires were running for cover!

But, talking about limits... What's to stop her using the shrink ray set on reverse (since, logically, the other Legionnaires wouldn't use it if the effect was irreversable) to grow to giant-size, then shrinking back to 'normal' under her own power, effectively giving her the full LeViathan "both grow AND shrink" power set?

[Speaking of Vi stunts, I love that bit in the DnA issue where they're fighting the JLA holograms, Atom sees her in giant-mode and cockily goes for her inner ear, when suddenly she turns the tables, gets small and after saying some size-changers are more versatile than others, does that to him!]

"Now, you were saying something about messing up equilibrium?"



That scene between Brainy and Imra was amazingly effective and oh-so realistic!



I'm not too surprised that that's the case. The recent stories would have put these characters near the top of most fans' minds, especially since they each had their own "moments" in the sun in recent issues.

Yeah! With all the powers apparently at their disposal with the pills, they should have taken the pill for the "defeat the Legion" power and been done with it! Silly Murrans!

Heh. I didn't even mean the "dry" kind of humor you refer to but rather the perception of a lack of humor. The adventures are so earnest and sincere generally that I just don't expect Ham or anyone else to try to inject much humor, unless it's something obvious like Bouncing Boy's antics. Most of what I find funny in these stories is general corniness and some of the goofy resolutions.

The discussion over humor reminds me of the frequent accusation that there is very little character development in these pre-Shooter stories.

The accusation is partly true. What character development there is must be inferred by the reader or is so subtle it can only be brought out through careful scrutiny of the stories and the series as a whole. The Brainy-Imra feud is one such example. Matter-Eater Lad shooting his mouth off at the wrong moment (341 and a few other places is another). Sun Boy's need to hog the glory seems to be one of the more prominent individual character traits.

Whether or not these glimpses into the Legionnaires' personalities were deliberate or not is unclear. I like to think they were intentional, if only a product of the writer's unconscious mind. Hamilton and Siegel were, like later writer Conway, too interested in defining the characters by what their powers could do (hence the limited focus on Triplicate Girl, whom Hamilton couldn't figure out what to do with) and not by who they were as characters.

Ironically, as we are now approaching the end of Hamilton and Siegel's tenure--they have a total of eight issues left--they start to finally flesh out the Legionnaires' personalities and relationships with each other, or to subconsciously allow the characters to express themselves.

One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small . . .

Sorry, couldn't resist.

One might suppose there are reasons why the Legion never considered using Murran technology to augment their powers, perhaps because of the terrible side effects--giving the user big ears, a big nose, an overbite, and a hunched over posture.

^

Btw, I don't see Sun Boy so much hogging the glory but rather wanting to get things done and thinking he's just the man for the job. That's a good leadership quality though it can come across as arrogant and glory seeking. It can also get one into trouble, as we saw with "Mutiny".

HWW, I agree about your assessment that we get more character development in Archive 5, Hammy and Siegel's final LSH stories. I like your way of putting it: "allowing the characters to express themselves". Through a combination of design and accident, the Legionnaires personalities are now more clearly emerging and it's fun to see.

Maybe it wasn't glory seeking. I think you pegged it with "arrogant," though. It is very arrogant to assume that any mission can't succeed without him calling the shots, or to insist on taking the lead on so many missions, as he did earlier in the series. Perhaps Dirk had a natural take-charge personality; however, he's been more subdued since 318. I like to think he learned a lesson.




I just read 338 and, without giving away too much, one of the things I liked was the opening, with Invisible Kid dodging Markita's marital scheme and Element Lad helping M-E Lad create a gift for his mother. On one hand, these scenes are a throwback to scenes in earlier stories which had nothing to do with the plot. On the other hand, we're finally getting to learn more about the Legionnaires as individuals.

This is the first time I ever saw anyone make an assumption that the 2 civilians on the cover of 337 were Imra's parents. What makes you think that? I think a reader at the time wrote in assuming it was Jimmy Olsen and Lucy Lane and the editor didn't deny it. I think they were just intended to be onlookers, but always wished they'd squeezed in 2 more Legionnaires instead.

This story is a personal favorite of mine, as it's the first Legion story I ever got my hands on. It just made me hungry for more and I had to beg, borrow, and steal them from other kids in the neighborhood, as the LSH had already lost its Adventure spot at the time. I immediately started making lists of all the Legionnaires and their powers and couldn't wait to learn them all. Been hooked ever since.

I was wondering why people thought they were the Ranzzes as well.

Really? I don't remember that being stipulated in later, Levitz-era elections.

I think most of us have a soft spot for our first Legion comic. Mine was published quite a bit later:

I was wrong, which is why I deleted the post, but you were too quick for me. I just checked and that stipulation isn't stated until the NEXT fan election, which was announced in Adv. 378.