Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Pre-Crisis Justice Society

How awesome was the JSA pre-Crisis? As much as I loved what was eventually done with the JSA after Crisis, the original Earth-2 version has always held a special place in my heart as I recall my childhood memories of discovering them and how awesome it was to see an older version of the JLA and its many characters who were unique to that world. In a way the JSA has never been quite the same, and DC's recent efforts to revamp Earth-2 in the DCnU have only underlined that fact.

Lately, I've been increasingly nostalgic for the comics of my childhood (particularly the '70s and early '80s), and this recently cycled back to my memories of the JSA and not only wanting to read the stories I remembered but those I never got to read. So, wow, I just finished a month-plus of reading eight TPBs worth of pre-Crisis Justice Society goodness! The trades consisted of Crisis on Multiple Earths Vols. 1-6 (featuring all of the annual JLA/JSA team-ups), Crisis on Multiple Earths: The Team-Ups Vols. 1-2 (featuring smaller team-ups with JSA members teamed with each other and various Earth-1 heroes) and Justice Society Vols. 1-2 (featuring the '70s JSA run in All-Star Comics and Adventure Comics)!

Such a great, great project, particularly getting to read all those JLA/JSA annual team-ups from start to finish. I think I'd only previously gotten to read 3 of the 20-odd stories previously, so those trades were such a treat for me. Among these, I finally read the excellent one that included the Legion, so that was one of the highlights. I think my favorite of them all was, is and probably always will be the Len Wein-scripted Seven Soldiers of Victory story. Some other favorites were the debut of the Crime Syndicate, the very meta Cary Bates/Elliot Maggin guest appearance, death of Mr. Terrific,, New Gods, Ultra Humanite/SSoV and that crossover with All-Star Squadron.

The Team-Ups trades were the weakest of the bunch in that they were very self-contained, inconsequential stories. I would've preferred to see more characterization with less characters and a chance to see, say Alan Scott and Hal Jordan compare notes and lives a little more. But they are fun stories and worth the price of admission for the Barry/Jay stories. Plus, hey Doiby Dickles!

The JSA stories from All-Star and Adventure were probably the consistently best read of all of these. I mean, I got to read the debuts of Power Girl and Huntress for the first time and some of the best non-Legion scripting by Paul Levitz. Plus, it features the death of Earth-2 Batman, which I'd always been curious about. Very good mix of old and young characters and some very memorable stories to boot!

I wish there were even more collections collecting all of the obscure appearances and back-ups of the JSA members because I only want more!!!

Very well said, Lardy. There's a lot of gold in the 60s and (especially) 70s appearances of the JSA. Like you, I consider my favorite to be the 7 Soldiers of Victory/JLA/JSA team-up. A close second would be Levitz's JSA run (way ahead of its time in many ways, which was probably one reason it didn't last longer.)

And, while it goes without saying, I'll say it anyway: I'm so glad you're posting in the Gym'll's forum again, Lardy.

I have no idea where it was from, but I remember a scene where halfway through some battle, there are a bunch of German ships in the English Channel (IIRC) and the invasion ends because the Specter has grown to hundreds of feet tall and is walking through the water towards them. Everyone who looks at him has skulls in their eyes (and, while this isn't made explicit, probably because of some sort of comics code standards, presumably falls over dead...).

It was just a crazy chilling scene, the likes of which todays 'big dramatic moments' can't even touch.

.

My other favorite moment from the old JSA was the Atom diving in front of a Valkyrie who had come to assassinate the President, and as the blast knocks him behind the desk, it seems like he might have died, only for him to get up moments later and reassure the President, 'You can't split an atom!' (Which was hilarious, since that was the common thought, at the time, but something that the President himself would have known was not true, since the Manhattan Project was well underway...)

It was a fun joke, because the Atom wasn't in on it, but the reader, from the perspective of many decades later, would know right off the irony in his statement.

Both scenes are from DC Special # 28, Set: "The Untold Origin of the Justice Society", written my Messr. Levitz! It was the final story in Vol. 1 of Justice Society. Pretty damn cool!

Also, I must say, though I've never been a big Joe Staton fan, he did some excellent work on those Justice Society stories, the majority of which he drew. Some early Giffen there as well.

Well, as you can see, I've been pretty busy reading 10 trades, for upwards of 2000 pages! But, thanks!

You're very welcome, Lardy.

Giffen's early work on JSA and Defenders was, in my opinion, the best he ever got. Of course, on JSA it helped that he was inked by the great Wally Wood.

And I agree about Joe Staton's JSA work; again, though, I think a lot of it has to do with the inker, in this case Bob Layton.

Also agree wholeheartedly, and love hearing your thoughts on the pre-Crisis JSA. It's always cool to see those earliest JLA / JSA team ups and how little by little they reintroduced so many golden age heroes, including so many who weren't really JSAers like Wildcat and Mr. Terrific.

I agree with you both on the favorite: the 7 Soldiers story is just an iconic Bronze Age story that truly lives up to the hype. I also like the story where Larry Lance dies, which is full of weird / bizarre moments representative of the late DC silver age. Once Red Tornado and Black Canary started getting a lot of focus, it allowed for the other's personalities to come out.

I'm definitely interested in more of your thoughts Lardy. There could easily be HUNDREDS of untold Earth-2 stories about what they were up to in the 50's, as well as all those years they crossed over with the JLA before the All-Star Comics run.

Just before Crisis, the status quo of Earth-2 was just so rich, with Infinity Inc to boot. If only we could have seen the continuing evolution of the JSA and E2. While some of what we got after Crisis was eventually good (especially that 10 issue series in the early 90's), a lot of it just doesn't hold up in comparison, especially the current run.

Oh wow, I just googled that, and it was way back in 1977!

That was almost 40 years ago! No wonder I only remember two scenes! Then again, that's more than I remember of a lot of comics I read back then...

Yes, Layton did a lot of the inks on those stories, but not all. I thought Staton's art was still very good with the other inkers (including himself) on the others. But Layton has always been a premier inker, so those are a cut above.



There was really a lot of potential left on the table that was only just starting to be scratched, starting with the All-Star Comics run and continuing with Roy Thomas' work on All-Star Squadron and Infinity Inc.

The Bronze Age/Earth-2 version of the Huntress, for example, still remains, in my mind, the best-ever version of that character, and her star was really ascending before her throwaway death in Crisis.

And I think one of the most beautiful Batman stories ever was the telling of the courtship of E2 Batman and Catwoman from Brave & the Bold 197!

So much potential and history thrown away!

I loved the pre-Crisis JSA. The idea that they were 20 years older than the JLA and aged more or less in real time added to their appeal.

The first two JLA issues I ever bought were # 107-108, featuring the JSA and the Freedom Fighters. For sentimental reasons, it's still my favorite of the annual crossovers.

I also fondly remember the next one (in # 113, I think)--a one-issue story which revealed that Sandman's partner, Sandy, had been accidentally transformed into a giant sand monster. It was a heartbreaking story about misplaced shame and guilt.

I was delighted when All-Star Comics was revived in 1976, but I didn't stick with it beyond the first couple of issues. I didn't think the story line was very good, and I didn't really want to read about the younger generation "Super Squad" (terrible name) of Robin, Power Girl, and Star-Spangled Kid. Yes, DC, I was 12 years old and I wanted to read about the older heroes: the original Green Lantern, Flash, Hawkman, etc. I wasn't interested in only young heroes, like your Powers That Be probably thought.

(Ironically, I later did buy those issues and was pleasantly surprised to see the older JSA members were featured more than I had expected.)

Because the JSAers were not "A-list" heroes in those days, the writers were freer to do things with them--such as killing off Mr. Terrific, the Golden Age Catwoman (whose death was heartbreaking), and the Golden Age Batman. In this way, the JSA had the same kind of appeal the Legion did: Things could happen. Real things. There was a verisimilitude to the JSA that other DC heroes couldn't match.

One of the first articles I ever had published was in Amazing Heroes, in which I figured out what the likely ages of the JSAers would be. This was 1985, and we had a U.S. president who was 74, so it seemed plausible that some of the JSAers would also be active at 70-plus.

Alas, all good things do come to an end, and Crisis brought about the end of many good things, including verisimilitude in the JSA.

THANK YOU! I love that version of the Huntress and never grew to accept her replacement.



Haven't read that one, must rectify the oversight.

I like those stories a lot, too. Crisis on Multiple Earths Volume 3 is by far my favorite of the 5 volumes.



Yeah, it didn't hit the ground running. Gerry Conway wrote the first few issues, and he just didn't click with the JSA the way he would with the JLA.



Paul Levitz to the rescue!

Huey, I think your post reminds me of when I liked the post-Crisis JSA the most: when it reminded me of pre-Crisis JSA! Even the multi-generational approach that usually worked so well originated in the "Super Squad" era. (I should add that the "Super Squad" moniker was eventually dropped in favor of "Justice Society" during that run....which is good because there was never really a clarification how the so-called Squad was any different from the JSA itself.)

Honestly, they could have retired and/or let die off the older members if the continuity had never been done away with. Just as in post-Crisis, some of them could have prolonged lives for various story reasons, too. LOTS of verisimilitude lost!

I will say, though, that in most of the stories appearing in the JLA/JSA crossovers and in All-Star/Adventure, the senior JSA members rarely looked any older than their Earth-1 counterparts. Sure, some would have graying temples, but many, like Alan Scott and Carter Hall and their wives didn't look much older than thirty-somethings. In some cases even the gray hairs came and went.

Writer Alan Brennert didn't have a huge body of work as a comic book writer, but I SWEAR he wrote some of the best Batman stories (including several E2-centric ones) ever written during his limited output!

Alan Brennert, yes! I remember he wrote that Batman-influences-the-young-alternate-universe-Bruce-Wayne story that was so beautifully drawn by Dick Giordano! Now I'm more excited than ever about B&tB 197.

I learned just today that a TPB exists collecting pre-Crisis Huntress' stories of her origin and all the solo stories from her Batman Family and Wonder Woman back-ups! It's called Huntress: Darknight Daughter.

Must! Get!

I've read that Huntress trade, it's great. Looking forward to reading your thoughts on it.

If comic book franchises truly incorporated real-life elements instead of fostering the so-called illusion of change, this is what should happen.

Alas, comic book companies operate under the tried and true business mindset of milk it for all it's worth and then milk it some more.

(And, to be fair, there are some trademarks to protect; if they don't use the characters every so often, they could lose those trademarks.

*Sigh* Business is bad for fantasy.)



True--that was just a given of comic book depictions, just as super-muscular and buxom builds are.

There was one scene (in Infinity Inc., I believe) in which Alan Scott removes his toupee, revealing that he's been balding for years. Perhaps the reason why most of these heroes didn't look older was because of one of the most verisimilitude reasons of all: vanity.

What I was thinking is that, if DC wanted to, they could have the heroes of Earth-2 continue to age, die off, etc. (because of their connection to WW2) while simultaneously employing the "sliding timeline" to their bread-and-butter Earth-1 heroes to protect their all-important IP. It sounds bloodthirsty, but it would have allowed both DC and fans to have their cake and eat it, too. It could have worked with only small fixes/explanations. I think one reason people loved/love Earth-2 is because things can and did change significantly in comparison to Earth-1.



Sounds like a GREAT moment!

Crisis on Infinite Earths, was an outstanding Maxi-Series I just wish it had a different ending.
I did not understand the implications it would have on most of my favorite characters at the time, The Legion's connection to Kal and Earth 2 were hit the hardest it seems and perhaps Donna Troy.
I would have traded Byrne's Superman, Perez on Wonder Woman and Giffen and DeMatties Justice League to get back Thomas and Ordway on All-Star Squadron and Infinity Inc., Wolfman and Perez on The New Teen Titans and Levitz, Giffen and Lightle on the Legion anyday, but it would have been nice if those titles could have coexisted without losing what them special.

When Barry Allen met Jay Garrick in Flash Comics #123, I was just turning sixteen years old. However, I would not begin reading comics for another three to four years!

My introduction to comics was a college friend who had an immense (although battered) comic book collection. Our pastime was applying college-level literary criticism to his childhood comics, a source of unending humour to us.

But I secretly loved those simple, ridiculous stories. I particularly loved Jay Garrick, who showed up about once a year in Flash, especially his 50's-style homely relationship with long-suffering Joan. Supposedly, he was "retired", but every time Barry showed up from Earth-One, he would put on the winged helmet "just one more time", and head off for some derring-do.

In those days, there was a sort of vibe on Earth-2 that the JSA members could be retired, because they had made some serious progress in curbing crime, improving humanity's lot, and working towards World Peace. There was a sort of hope that this would be possible on Earth-One in another twenty years.

(The fact that they had defeated Hitler seemed to carry more weight on Earth-Two than Earth-One, and indeed, than in the real world.)

It was also convenient that Dr. Fate and the Spectre were relegated to Earth-Two, as they were really too darn powerful to show up in the comics more than once a year.

(Powerful heroes require powerful villains, and powerful villains have the potential to wreak powerful havoc.)

I just re-read the story (entitled "The Autobiography of Bruce Wayne") last night, after these posts. It's still beyond excellent! It also may be the single-greatest work Joe Staton has ever done!

Has anyone else read this story? All I can add to back up my feelings on this it is that it appeared in the original Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told TPB and was still recognized at #44 in CBR's recent 75 Greatest Batman Stories fan poll. (Keep in mind that a lot of "hot" storylines like "Hush", Knightfall and the various Grant Morrison stories crowded out a lot of the votes, so a 44 showing for a relatively obscure one-off is pretty impressive! )

As Fickles said, "To Kill a Legend" (also by Brennert) from Detective #500 is damn awesome, too, though not Earth-2 related. It ranked even higher in CBR's poll.

I don't think I've ever read any of the E2 Batman stories! This definitely has me jonesing to check it out now.

I liked "To Kill a Legend" better than "The Autobiography of Bruce Wayne" (In the poll Paladin mentions I voted for the former), but Autobiography is still a great story. It also makes for a nice lead-in (though published years later) to all of the Huntress stuff in All-Star.