Awhile back Paul Levitz and I created a few Legionnaires, and assorted supporting characters.<br/>Sensor Girl was always more Paul's baby, just as Tellus and Quislet were more mine. He had this idea of doing a female character that had exaggerated sensory powers.

One thing that was important to me as I designed this new female Legionnaire character, was that she not be wearing a skimpy, or sexually provocative, costume. There were many Legionnaires that already represented that type. Since I've always believed that diversity was one of the great natural attributes of the Legion, I wanted at least one female Legionnaire who didn't seem to trade on her physical beauty. Sensor Girl wasn't supposed to even have the skintight costume that most heroes wear. You will notice that there have always been wrinkles in her costume rather than the "painted on" look.

I thought that there might be an interesting irony in having a character with sensory abilities which was completely blocked from sight, touch, taste, etc. In my original sketches of the character, Sensor Girl's mask was completely featureless, but I decided that taking such an extreme approach was visually boring and unoriginal. After all, Steve Ditko had already created his character The Question with a featureless mask. I then decided to add the color and pupil-less eye shapes, actually they are meant to be stylized feminine lashes. When Paul saw that I had designed a Legionnaire with a full mask, I think that sparked his desire to spare Supergirl from her Crisis fate, by making her the lady behind the mask. I believe the original idea was that even she didn't know her true identity, and that she had lost all her Kryptonian powers except those pertaining to her senses. This is why, in the early appearances of the character, she appears to have powers consistent with X-ray vision, heat vision, etc. It wasn't until Ms. Khan insisted that Supergirl should remain dead (she was very firm on this at the time) that Paul came up with Plan B ... Projectra. after all, who wanted to incur the wrath of Jeanette? : )

Steve Lightle

I've recently done a few new drawings of Legion characters. If you'd like to take a look at them, I've got them posted online at the LegionPics group.

Sensor Girl ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LegionPics/message/10107

Sensor Girl dates back to my days on the LSH, but just for fun (and at the prompting of a fellow Legion fan) I looked to the Golden Age for reference on these next two.

Night Girl ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LegionPics/message/10125

Shadow Lass ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LegionPics/message/10129

You may want to Subscribe to by sending an email addressed to: LegionPics-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Do you mean that in her first PUBLISHED appearances it was Levitz' intention that she was (through whatever mechanism) Kara?

I recall at the time it seemed to be hinted at, but in such a heavy handed way that even then my assumption was that the Kara hints were a red herring.

------------------
"The promotion of "self-esteem" in our schools has been so successful that people feel free to spout off about all sorts of things -- and see no reason why their opinions should not be taken as seriously as the views of people who actually know what they are talking about."

I think it's interesting that Giffen went with the featureless look you mention, Steve, when he "revamped" the Legion at the end of the Baxter run, just before The Magic Wars.

So Sensor Girl was supposed to be Kara... Let me add Ms. K to my "Must-perish-painfully-for crimes-against-the-Super-cousins" list... right next to that slime Carlin...

The Kara hints BECAME a red herring, but it was our intention, at the outset, to have Kara in the Sensor Girl costume.

Paul Levitz is very adaptable. It's a pity I can't seem to lure him back to writing comics. The guy needs extra hours in the day.

Steve

Steve, this came up in another thread, but I thought I'd post it here so you'd see it, and it's even vaguely close to being on-topic.

Can you give us any info on some of the background characters from the try-out issue (#14)? Particularly the two flying fish types and the red skinned girl with the bandana who made it on the cover.

Steve are you still doing series art and if so will you ever be a monthly artist again ?

I always believed you are one of the best dc artist and it would be great it you did more interior art.

Also what happened on your stint with DOOM PATROL ? Again it was tremendous art and then you were replaced , why ?

And there was "precedent" for an amnesiac Supergirl wearing a new costume with a mask: Adventure 334 and Unknown Boy. And sorta/kinda with Satan Girl from Adv 313. Would have been great if Kara could have stayed with the Legion. Hey it could been a reformed Satan Girl!

Kirk-like voice: "KHAN! KHAN!"

I love it! Inside info! More! More!

As an aside, I absolutely loved your art on the Baxter Legion. Whoops, there's something on my nose....

how was the story supposed to be? what happened to her, she gets beat to crap and the last hit it appears she's just destroyed but in actuality punched forward to the 30th century. no memory of who she is and then over time becoming kara again but not supergirl, something different.
thank you for any information.

I recently reread those DP issues and it stated in one letters page that Steve "asked off" the book.

Thanks for the inside info, Steve! I always thought it was odd that Projectra returned, especially after Levitz had made such a big to-do about writing her out. Now, I know why.

By the way, you won't remember me, but you signed some LSH issues for me at the KC con back in March or so. I just wanted to say thanks again and for taking the time to chat and show me samples from the Legion "cartoon" that somebody was making. Probably not the best light we'd like to see our heroes portrayed in, but, hey, it's Hollywood. If such a cartoon ever does get made, we'll be lucky if they don't reduce the cast to seven plus a robot sidekick.

[rant] Perhaps the lines curved to fit the contour of a face proved too difficult a feat for him. [/rant]

To keep on topic...Great images as always Steve.

I'll second draub's rant and raise him one ...

Steve has shared many dozens more images, published and unpublished, over in LegionPics these past two years. He also is generous with commentary, such as reminiscing about the "Tales of the LSH" reprint covers when I sent along some scans. (When DC reprinted the Baxter books, LSH v3, they got new covers, mostly by Steve.)

I don't think Steve ever "asked off" the Legion, Lash LaRue ... that's yet another euphemism, anyway. On several occasions, though, he's since -been asked- to do something with the Legion, and they've aborted the project. Again, many tales are available at LegionPics.

Whoops! Lash was talking about "Doom Patrol," not "LSH."

Thanks for sharing, Steve.

I truly love hearing all the little tidbits about past Legion lore. It would have been nice to see Kara back again.

Excellent pics on the website, too.

------------------
Patrick

Hmm... what if it was the "Satan Girl" aspect of her that survived? She was never really evil, per se, she was just trying to find a way to continue to exist.

She did survived! (In Supergirl!!) A really cool one! I am hoping that we may see her again sometimes later in Supergirl...

DC did use a blonde woman named Kara in a Christmas special post-Crisis. She could see Deadman, which amazed him since he had been alone so long in the afterlife. At the end of the story Kara makes reference to the fact that "...some of us still remember..." while looking at the reader (IIRC).

It was a nice "silent tribute" to Supergirl. If I was at home right now, I'd dig out the issue number for those who'd want to track it down. If there's interest, I can find it this weekend.

I remember that issue. I think it was Christmas with the Superheroes 1 or 2.

Nice story.
Pity Mark Waid lost his job for it.

???????????

I don't think I've heard that before. Care to elaborate?

------------------
Scott S.
http://www.lightningladslegion.com/

Steve, a quick question-- was your design for Mentalla a nod to Saturn Girl's original look, way back in Adventure 247? An off-hand comment in the LMBP Y-group got me wondering...

Steve, another question, but unrelated to above. This one is based on a teensy deduction and a leap of wondering.

Are you pencilling or about to start pencilling a fill-in issue of Legion? Or even discussing storylines with DNA and/or McAvennie?

I'm asking because current speculation is that if there's fill-in issues before Coipel's replacement takes over, they'll probably start with # 16, which because of usual production schedules, can be deduced as having to be drawn right around now.

Are you already in the pipeline?

I've heard that there is a Legion team in place already. Still, when I made my availability and interest known, Mr. McAvennie did contact me about doing a single story or story arc ... but I haven't gotten word on a script yet. I'd gladly brainstorm with the current writers, as I did with Paul Levitz back in the day, but I'd have to know that my input was welcome. I certainly don't want to appear to disrespect the current writers in any way. Paul made it clear, when I started my run on the Legion, that he enjoyed trading ideas with his collaborators and welcomed my input.
As for the idea that my fill-in might be a rush job ... I certainly hope not. You see, when I was asked to take over the "Baxter" Legion, that book was about three months behind schedule, and digging out of a hole like that wasn't fun.

Steve

Thanks for the info, Steve.

But to be clear, is it your understanding that a fill-in penciller/art team has been selected or that a regular penciller has been selected. Or, I guess, even both.

And by "in place" do you mean already in current production of drawn pages?

Look forward to your issue whenever they appear. (BTW, what Legionnaires are you really looking forward to drawing?)

He Who Wanders said:
"By the way, you won't remember me, but you signed some LSH issues for me at the KC con back in March or so. I just wanted to say thanks again and for taking the time to chat and show me samples from the Legion "cartoon" that somebody was making."

As a matter of fact, I do recall talking with you at the convention. Thanks for hanging out and shooting the breeze.

Steve

I'm reposting the follow-up Q's, Steve, in case you missed it at the bottom of the first page.

Shaggydoo said:
"I always believed you are one of the best dc artist and it would be great it you did more interior art.

Also what happened on your stint with DOOM PATROL ? Again it was tremendous art and then you were replaced , why ?"

Thank you very much for the kind words.

You know, when I started out in comics, I really was a kid in a candy store. I wasn't the least bit competitive with, or envious of, other artists. I was just happy to be contributing to an artform that I'd loved all my life. What motivated me was the challenge of bettering my own skills and doing the best work that I could do.

Unfortunately, on the Doom Patrol, I was convinced that I was not going to be able to continue to do my best work. I was fortunate on DP to be working with an inker of my own choosing, the very talented Gary Martin. I also got to work with one of my favorite people in the comic industry, a man who loves the Doom Patrol as much as I do, Paul Kupperberg. Beyond that, I really don't want to say. For the record though, I asked to be taken off of the title, citing irreconcilable creative differences.

Under other circumstances I'm convinced that Paul, Gary and myself could have created a Doom Patrol that could stand proudly with the work of Drake and Premiani.

I'm really glad that the Doom Patrol issues that we did produce together seem to be fondly remembered.

Steve Lightle

Reep asked:
"But to be clear, is it your understanding that a fill-in penciller/art team has been selected or that a regular penciller has been selected. Or, I guess, even both."

My understanding is that a team is in place, presumably as series regulars. Perhaps the writers are the same, just teaming up with a new art team. I really don't know.

I'm looking forward to drawing today's Legionnaires. Each character presents intriguing challenges, and I enjoy the challenge of finding the essense of each character. And no, I've not settled on a favorite yet. Still, I'm sure I'll discover favorites as soon as the work begins.

Steve

Steve, it's great to hear that McAvennie is going to let you draw some Legion again! I certainly hope this doesn't fall through as I've heard has happened before [shut up, Lardy--don't jinx it!]

Apparently, he's giving the fans a measure of what we want. Good for him! Now, we just need to get you as the regular artist....

That was it LL, "Christmas with the Super-Heroes #2", from 1989. And I got the quote backwards. Basically, Deadman is feeling sorry for himself at Christmas because he's alone, and Kara reminds him that heroes give their all even if no one remembers we ever even existed. The final caption thanks the creators of Supergirl by name, and assures them "We still remember".

Mark Waid was the editor of that story. So, are you saying he was fired as an editor after this? Good! He's too good a writer to not be devoted to it 100% of the time.

>[...] Kara reminds him that heroes give their all even if no one remembers we ever even existed. <

An appropriate thought, in regard to many civic heroes, before another Nine Eleven rolls around.

And before that particular heroism is, well, put to one side in the public consciousness by the coming war.

... I'm sorry, the tragedy to come -- and war is always a goddamned tragedy, whether it's necessary or not -- has been weighing on my mind.

End of digression.

Omni Craig said:
"Mark Waid was the editor of that story. So, are you saying he was fired as an editor after this?"
****
I never heard that anyone was fired for editing a Supergirl story after she was written out of continuity. I think this must be a rumor or revisionism at work.

Eryk Davis Ester asked:
"Can you give us any info on some of the background characters from the try-out issue (#14)? Particularly the two flying fish types and the red skinned girl with the bandana who made it on the cover."

Those "fish" characters have been referred to as Skreaks ... because that is the sound that Paul had them emitting whenever they appeared. I just remember tossing them in the backgrounds for some kind of visual continuity. I would repeat species types in scenes that called for the casting of "extras" specifically to make the Legion's universe seem more real. Too often artists would create alien characters only to discard them and create new ones for the next scene. Having familiar background types seemed more realistic to me, and may have helped make it all seem a bit more real ... I hope.

Steve

And your efforts are appreciated, Steve! Just one request... when you do your fill-in issue(s), could you work the "Skreaks" into the background somewhere?

The issue to which Steve and some others refer is probably my favorite Baxter issue. As Steve said, creating a cohesive and complete universe for the characters really makes you care about them and makes it all "real."

I've said it before, Steve is one of the all time great Legion artists.

"Skreaks"? How about calling them "Pisces"? As the Legion needs a water-powered member, Pisces would be perfect since they would be the one to have an ability to create waterspout, water vortex, hurricane, water-shooting from their mouths, etc...they have potential...I admit that I am the one who wanted to see them to join the Legion, instead of Tellus or Energy Boy or whoever.

To bad about Doom Patrol - I remember buying the issue after you left and being utterly horrified by how butt-ugly Erik Larsen's art was. To go from an artist like you to Larsen's intentionally more harsh-on-the-eye style seemed a bit of a reckless editorial decision. But there you go. If you'd stuck with the title though I doubt Morrison would have been asked to come on board to re-vamp it as soon as he was.

What about the Mentalla question though? Did you design it as a retro-tribute to Saturn Girl? I always assumed it owed more to Nemesis Kid - after all, that distinctive yellow-and-green helped plant the idea in the readers minds that she was a traitor.

Also - this has been bugging me (saddo!) for a while - who exactly was Terrus in the LSV? Did Levitz give you any clues as to what that character was supposed to be about?

Good question! The "Who was Terrus?" thread comes up here every few months, so it would be nice to have a less speculative answer.

I don't remember Mentalla as being a traitor.
She went undercover to break-up the new Fatal Five and show her worthiness to be in the Legion, I thought.
And was killed.

I know Steve has said he designed Mentalla using his wife as the model (and shown pictures).
He didn't mention the color scheme, though.

Shady

but her costume was soo similar to Saturn Girl's first appearance in Adv. #247 so we wonder if Steve used that as a homage. Is that it, Steve?

Yeah Shady - I know Mentalla went undercover etc. but for the issues after she tried out for the Legion and before she used her powers against Flare there was the big mystery about where she went after she joined the Academy etc culminating in the "shock" revelation she'd joned the Fatal Five. We didn't actually know she was infiltrating the Five until the issue (or mebbe issue before) she died - we were supposed to assume she'd genuinely gone bad.

Traitor is just a big label to use on someone who wasn't.

Nemesis Kid wasn't really even a traitor, he was a spy and undercover agent for the bad guys/enemy.
He wasn't a good guy who changed and joined the other side, he was ALWAYS on the other side.

A 'traitor' is someone like Saruman from LOTR.

Shady

Whatever

The point is, that she was believed to be a traitor, even if she didn't actually turn out to be one.

And one could argue that she betrayed the Emerald Empress.

But I think it's more likely the costume was meant as an homage to the early Saturn Girl. The similarities are far greater than to Nemesis Kid, anyway.

I got his point Eryk, it was just too glib for me.

Mentalla didn't betray the Empress either, she was 'undercover'.

Do you think that a policeman or military agent who goes undercover to catch criminals or terrorists should be labeled 'traitor'?

Words like that have MEANING.

And CK ~ 'whatever' right back at you, dude.

Shadowplay

Sorry, but it does seem to me that if you earn somebody else's trust by making them think that you are loyal to them, and then help their enemies, that the correct description of your actions is that you have "betrayed" their trust, that you have betrayed them, and so, to that extent, you are a traitor to their cause, even if you were never sincere in adopting their cause in the first place.

That is not to say that such actions might not be the morally best actions to take, and appropriate in certain circumstances, just as it may sometimes appropriate to kill or steal from others. Robin Hood is no less a thief because he robs those who are wealthy in an unjust system and gives to those who are victims of the system.

Hey Shady, fancy splitting this hare?

\\
\\_
(')
/ )=
o( )_

Rar! Curses! It didn't work!

(it was supposed to look like a bunny rabbit for pete's sake...)

"I got his point Eryk, it was just too glib for me."

We're discussing comic book characters here, not real people, remember? Why make such a big deal out of things?

Or should people just not bother posting in case they ruffle the feathers of the ultra-pedants?

Sniff sniff you mean she could have been my Kara...she could have lived if KHAN had given the ok...sniff sniff...oh why oh why couldnt we have her and superboy too.....it would have been so great....Steve I absolutely loved that costume....i thought it would have been great if it had been Kara...im glad that part of my inituition was right it was her. *and lol poor brainy...he wasnt wrong after all ...just the time trapper doing another revision of history that revised kara and put in projectra hehe.

all the respect i had for MS KHAN just went straight down the drain. i always wondered how someone as gifted as PAUL LEVITZ, who wrote one hell of a soap opera with LOSH, could have been involved in such a butchery of his own work.

dollars to donuts it was also MS KHAN, responsible for all the other crap revisionism done to dc over the years(hawkman,legion,superboy,hal)

i notice a trend on the boards for persons to either be for or against different versions of the same hero(hal/kyle,katar/carter), people complaining about "continuity". did it ever occur to anyone that once you tell a good story, all of the rest stuff doesn't matters?

i remember reding the legion issues where the red herrings were tossed about regarding supergirl/projectra,in my opinion the dc universe and the legion would have been much richer if that had panned out.

paul, bless your heart for having that idea ,and now that you're THE BOSS, thanks for bringing KARA back ( go PETER!!!!!)

BTW, STEVE, WHEN CAN WE EXPECT TO SEE WHATEVER LEGION STUFF YOU'RE WORKING ON, AND IS IT ONLY THE LEGION YOU'RE INTERESTED IN? IF NOT ,WHAT ELSE?

I didn't mean to make a 'big deal' of things.
Words just mean something and for me, there isn't any venue where they don't.
Especially and most importantly in a written forum, and in a written forum where kids hang out.

With 9-11, there's been a lot of 'traitor' talk, a lot of undercover work being discussed.

I just need to make distinctions in motives and actions.

Especially on this thread, where Mentalla was designed using Steve's wife.
I don't know if Steve wants the character remembered as a traitor, to BOTH sides.
sigh

Did ya'll consider Rokk a traitor when he was working with Chu but actually trying to bring her down?

And CK ~ just because someone doesn't agree with something that you've said, or the way you've said it, doesn't mean that they don't want you to post.
Or that they should stop posting, either.

Shady

But it's important to remember that words don't mean anything stripped of people's intentions that they do so, or the context in which they are used. I take it "traitor" in this context means a certain type of stock literary character who occurs in certain standard types of stories. Just because it has certain connotation in other contexts does not mean we have to import it into these, or that we should be afraid to use the word because of those connotations.

In real life, whether someone is labeled a traitor or not depends a lot on one's perspective. Was Benedict Arnold a traitor? Or was he just a Loyalist spy on the treasonous revolutionaries? Certainly the organization that the undercover agent infiltrates is going to consider that agent a traitor to that organization, while he will be praised as a hero by those who oppose the cause of the organization in question. Is there a use of the word "traitor" that strips it of this perspectival posturing, and yet maintains some kind of moral connotation? I'm not sure there is. But there are uses of it which are not value-laden, and I think that the use of "traitor" to describe Nemesis Kid or Mentalla is perfectly justifiable. Perhaps Rokk too if we were given more details about his relationship with Chu. As I remember it though, she never fully took him into her confidence, so he was never really given the chance to committ to her cause, so I don't think he really betrayed her. But I wouldn't be beyond saying that if details were slightly different.

I don't think that undercover agents ever 'commit' to the subject groups 'cause'.
Unless they become corrupted, that is.

As far as Rokk goes, he and his Espionage Squad were working undercover against Chu from the beginning and his moral duty was to the Legion, his primary affiliation.

Mentalla certainly didn't commit herself ethically to the Fatal Five and the Empress was incapable of taking ANYONE into her confidence and trust.

When Gim quit/was tossed out of the Legion, and joined the LSV to save his mom, was he a traitor?
If he was, to save his family, should that be what he's remembered for?

As far as I can remember, Mentalla was true to her primary group of concern, the Legion.

These issues were addressed in the TV series, 'Wiseguy', a number of years ago, do you remember it?
The crime boss was played by Kevin Spacey, I think, and when the undercover detective brought his organization down, the crime guy said that the policeman was a traitor to their friendship.
Interesting perspective and he made me cry, even though I knew he had to be stopped and the policeman was morally correct in doing what he did.

Art is supposed to reflect life if it's to have any validity.
Comics are an art form.
That carry over from life is SUPPOSED to be there.

It's an interesting subject to think about ~ ethics and how they translate into being used in life situations, is always worthy of discussion.

Shady

Don't you think that post is slightly over-the-top? I thought I was participating in a nice, innocuous little chat about the origin of a defunct super heroine's costume. Your wilfull and unnecessary mis-interpretation of what I was saying is totally uncalled for and to link it to September 11th is bizarre and offensive.

This all seems to have come from your opinion that I mis-used the word "traitor." Can you give us a lexicon of words and phrases you find offensive? I guess "perspective" would be at the top of the list.

And what's with that bit about Steve's wife? Why bring that up? You seem to be implying that in some way I've besmirched the reputation of a real-life person. I obviously haven't and I really don't appreciate you trying to wring every last drop of drama you possibly can out of a "controversy" which is entirely of your own creation.

Why bring any of this up in the first place? Your perma-justification that you're doing it for the kids (by which I take it you mean under 12s) rings a bit hollow considering it's a thread discussing a run of comics from over 15 years ago. How many under 12s are going to be interested in that? In my estimation - 0.

You've managed to find offense where clearly none was intended and blown the situation out of proportion. Going from a harmless post about a comic book character and spinning it into some kind of rant about the ethics of real-life counter-terrorism is ridiculous and you know it. How many potential posters see something like that and decide not to bother sharing their opinions at the risk of having their words intentionally misconstrued? Loads probably - coz I for one am going back to lurking.

Okay.
Shadowplay

Yep, so much respect and you don't even know how to spell the woman's name.;)

No need to sound so happy, but I guess your silence speaks volumes.

I'll see you soon "CK".

I've liked hearing from Steve on this thread, and with Dave Cockrum posting on another...WOW!

If we has Giffen come by, well, that would just be dandy.

I don't know what to say, Terence.
I didn't intend for him to take any of my comments so terribly and every explanation I try just makes things worse.
I need to cut my losses and move on.
And so does he.

Shady

well shady i think your comparison to 9/11 set him off and to be honest was a bit bizarre, maybe even more bizarre then greybird comparing me(progenitor) to that of a mass murderer like hitler, just a tad extreme.

CK, I wish you wouldn't go back to lurking.

nah
i take that back, greybird's statement was more bizarre.

Isn't that always the way?

Wow! While I was away, things got pretty heated around here.

I think I'll dodge the whole controversy, and instead, hope that cooler heads have since prevailed.

I do want to answer the question about the inspiration for Mentalla's costume. It certainly was based on Saturn Girl's earliest costume. In fact, I'd probably have given her the same hair color too, except that my wife had blonde hair at the time.

Nemisis Kid's costume had nothing to do with her appearance. I know for a fact, since I designed the character of Mentalla, that her fate was not decided at the time of her creation. In fact, she probably would never have appeared again if not for the large amount of fan mail that mentioned an interest in Mentalla. Paul conceived of the idea of having her infiltrate the Fatal 5 without any input from me. If he was subconsciously drawing inspiration from the color scheme of Nemisis Kid's costume ... I have no way of knowing.

Best wishes to all.

Steve L

Cool. Thanks, Steve! I love getting the backstories from the creative side-- Maybe VH1 can do a "Behind the Comics"?

I made no such comparison of whoever-it-really-is-with-that-handle to anybody, living or dead, murderous or not, and he knows it.

What I said was that picking a handle of the name of a -character- who was a mass murderer in these stories struck me as very curious and highly dubious. Especially when so many names from heroes, from neutral characters, or from items of sheer whimsy existed as possibilities. Even "Mordru" was a better name. -He- (almost?) never killed anyone.

I'm a man of strong opinions, but I don't see how that warrants anyone misrepresenting what I say. And I can't stop anyone else from doing it, either.

I'll say what I've said before: If whoever-you-are thought my comments many months ago (this was after "Legion Lost" 11) cut too closely, I tender an apology, even though one isn't obliged on my part. And if you didn't bother to read carefully on your part, as I suggest you didn't, you owe -me- one.

actually you said that it indicident{spelling} of character.
Same thing, saying basically that if i had the chance i would commit mass genocide, EXTREME.
Good thing i never called myself mordru, oh wait i did, didnt he wipe out a couple of planets.

and what about all those people who thought DARTH VADER was cool, are they potential mass murderers

i accept your apology, as half hearted as it is, and you said what i posted, if i could give the link to it i would but i am pretty sure its gone.
i dont owe you an apology, what would i owe you an apology for?
but back to the topic.

Where is Dave Cockrum posting?

i screwed up my post , it was actually "indictitive" of character, not whatever i spelt there.

Mordru, dear, are you trapped in a personal Zero Hour? You seem to be slipping from one ID to another with each post

MAN! I'm sorry to see that this topic/thread has been totally CRISPED.

Rather than try to hash this out, maybe I'll just start another topic in a few days.

Later-

Steve

sorry Steve. i guess i should share in the blame.
and Princess Crujectra, my identity keeps switching because, when i break from work i go to the library in the building and sometimes post. Because it doesnt store my password and i cant remember it, i use my first user name because the password is easy to remember.
I dont use multiple id's, i just use the old one when necessary.

------------------

Steve,

I just wanted to say that we really do appreciate the insight and info you provide. We eagerly await whatever else you wish to contribute to our knowledge of the backstory of the Legion.

I do want to thank everyone for the kind reception I've received here on the DC boards.

For those that have asked what I'm doing next ...

I've just finished the pencils and inks to a Flash interior story, written by Stuart Immonen, which should soon be scheduled to appear. I've drawn a short Lightray story that is, to my knowledge, has not appeared in print yet. I'm also looking forward to receiving a script from the Legion office very soon. I'm very much open to the idea of doing more comic work, possibly for DC Comics.

In recent years, I've concentrated on doing work that has appeared outside of comics, although I've kept my hand in with various comic related assignments featuring characters like; Batman, Red Sonja, Superman, X-Men, Tommi Trek, Spider-man, Wolfshead, Silver Surfer, Tim Can, and the ever popular Peking Tom & Bobbi Sox. I've recently contributed art to video games and electronic comics, sometimes featuring various DC characters. I've done animation and toy design work, once again, sometimes involving well known comic book characters. My art has appeared on-line at Cartoon Network's web site, and can currently be seen as part of an interactive Batman adventure at ... http://www.onstaradventure.com/ba_comic.htm

I moderate, and am actively involved in, an e-mail message group known as ArtPost. Anyone that is interested can register with Yahoo!groups and join ArtPost.

Thanks again to everyone who has welcomed me here at the DC boards.

Sincerely,
Steve Lightle http://www.geocities.com/stevelightle/home.html

See Steve's interactive online Batman adventure ... http://www.onstaradventure.com/ba_comic.htm

****
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Question for Steve--

What LEGION work have you done POST-boot?

To the best of my ability to recall, you did the awesome covers for SECRETS OF THE LEGION, which featured expanded post-boot origins for Star Boy, Spark, Umbra and Ultra Boy.

Is that it for the post-boot era so far?

Can't wait to see your upcoming LEGION work-- I'm sure it will look wonderful!

MLLASH asked ...
"Question for Steve--
What LEGION work have you done POST-boot?

To the best of my ability to recall, you did the awesome covers for SECRETS OF THE LEGION, which featured expanded post-boot origins for Star Boy, Spark, Umbra and Ultra Boy.

Is that it for the post-boot era so far?

Can't wait to see your upcoming LEGION work-- I'm sure it will look wonderful!"

I did four covers on the Legends of the Legion miniseries (Umbra, Ultra Boy, Star Boy, and Lightning Lass ... I think). I also did a couple of Legion covers on Showcase a few years back.

I'm certainly ready to try my hand at the current Legion ... again. I hope old and new Legion fans will check out my issue(s).

Steve

See pages of original Steve Lightle art at ... http://www.geocities.com/stevelightle/home.html
Or see Steve's interactive online Batman adventure ... http://www.onstaradventure.com/ba_comic.htm

Let's not forget the XS solo story illustrated by Steve from the FLASH 80-page giant a few years ago! It's worth picking up just to see Steve's lovely rendition of Jenni.
BTW Steve, isn't XS based on a character you created for the LEGION - ALLEGRA??

lil'rhino

lil'rhino asks:
"BTW Steve, isn't XS based on a character you created for the LEGION - ALLEGRA??"

Ahhh! A man with a good memory!

Are you one of the Legion fans who first saw Allegra in issues of the Legion APA KLORDNY? She did later appear as part of a super team called New Genix, in much the same way that Dave Cockrum's Nightcrawler was originally intended for the Legion but ended up in the X-Men.

Allegra was part of the early planning for the Legion reboot. As I originally conceived of her, she was a descendant of Wally West who was born with the curse of both an accelerated metabolism and accelerated aging. Allegra's development, feeding, general well being and teaching were entirely overseen by high speed computers. No normal human could even begin to communicate with her. Thank God that Iris and Barry Allen could step in to raise her as their own. The idea was received by my editor and members of the Legion "reboot" team of creators with enthusiasm, as I recall.

You could certainly speculate that Allegra inspired both Impulse and XS. Who can say?

Thanks for remembering the first Hispanic Legionnaire, Allegra.

Steve

Why did you call her Allegra? Any pictures?

Any information about other Legionnaires you created who never made it into the book? What about that leopard-print wearing Legion applicant? Did you have any plans for her?

Also - did you design Tellus? Have you heard from any other Legion artists if they liked/hated drawing him? He was quite unusual-looking (which helped make him one of my favourite Legionnaires.)

Who was responsible for Comet Queen's "look" anyway?

I just want to say that "Allegra" is a far better code name than "XS". I love Jenni, but that name really sucks.

Woo hoo.

Is XS is Hispanic too?

Comet King said:

<< Why did you call her Allegra? Any pictures?>>

I named her Allegra (before the much advertised alergy drug) from the base word Allegro ... which basically means music played fast. I changed the "o" to an "a" to feminize it.

Pictures of the character have been circulated since 1992, in Legion fanzines and eventually in Marvel Comics Presents. The version in MCP had short hair, although the original had shoulder length hair. The other difference is that Allegra was originally supposed to be wearing a scarlet and gold costume rather than the purple and silver that I gave her for her Marvel appearances.

Steve

Cool! Does anyone have any links to any pic sites?

Also Steve - anything you can tell me about my faves Comet Queen and Tellus would be most appreciated!

Steve Lightle has also posted his Allegra design here ... but you'll need to join the LegionPics Yahoo! Group first to see it, if you aren't a member already. You can do so at the second link, if you have a free Yahoo! ident, or by sending a blank e-mail here .

Actually, that first link in the msg above was to a posting by Steve of his Allegra in action.
Here is a another, similar panel scan.

And here is Steve's posting of the cover of Marvel Comics Presents 175, the only mainstream comic that Allegra appeared in.

Here is a scan of Steve's one-page character profile with a design sketch for Allegra, along with his thoughts on the whole experience of proposing and submitting this character (and others) for the Legion. A smaller scan is available here .

Finally, that e-mail (not Web, though you can do it there as well) address/link above for subscribing to LegionPics does work, sans the "http" prefix that this msg board added ... but you'll need to join with a (free) Yahoo! ident in order to see items in the LegionPics archives.

Instead of forcing to join a Yahoo group why not just post a mirror of the images that is more accessible?

I would do just that if I had the bandwidth, but I don't. My allotment renews at my Internet provider every calendar month. All I can afford to offer is bandwidth for my own fan fiction. (And some art for my own Yahoo! Group, Pteraphiles .)

You're missing an excellent bet, though, if you don't try LegionPics. A host of fan artists, and other fans adept with a scanner and Photoshop, and a few pros such as Steve Lightle, all provide fascinating material.

Comet King asked:

<< What about that leopard-print wearing Legion applicant? Did you have any plans for her? >>

I always liked to imagine that every bit player or "extra" was a fully realized person with a life of their own. In the case of the red skinned girl in the tiger print costume, I imagine that her powers were very similar to Timber Wolf's, and that the duplication of powers clause in the Legion rules might have killed her chances of joining the team. I also imagine that she was both young and naive, and maybe tended towards hero worship of the Legion.

I could easily imagine a scene of Timber Wolf out on a date with her at a carnival ... she's got stars in her eyes and he's trying to act the predatory male ... but ends up rambling on about Lightning Lass. Still, maybe the relationship might have grown ...

<< Also - did you design Tellus? Have you heard from any other Legion artists if they liked/hated drawing him? He was quite unusual-looking (which helped make him one of my favourite Legionnaires.) >>

I did design the first non-humanoid Legionnaires Tellus and Quislet, and yes, I noticed how much trouble other artists seemed to have with staying "on model." One of my favorite versions of the character of Tellus was done by Art Adams. He seemed to grasp the idea that Tellus' anatomy wasn't supposed to closely resemble human anatomy. Most artists seemed to think of Tellus as a physically distorted human. They tried giving Tellus a human head/kneck/shoulders relationship, or they would give him human arms. The worst example is the artist who gave Tellus long human fingers with especially long nails. I seem to recall that George Perez did a pretty good version of Tellus also. Of course we are talking George here ... How could I be surprised that he'd go the extra mile?

As for complaints ... I was once told, shortly after introducing the character, that Tellus looked like "a big yellow lump of sh*t." Of course, that was only one colorist's opinion. I've got to at least give him credit for being bold enough to speak his mind. Now, if only he would have stuck with my character diagram that showed the sensor nodules on Tellus' back and face changing color to reflect the character's emotions. The idea was that Tellus had no vocal chords, and thus, no spoken language. The electronic voice that was emitted from his helmet was a translation of a purely visual language. Tellus' sensor nodules emitted a language comprised completely of ever constantly changing lights.

<< Who was responsible for Comet Queen's "look" anyway? >>

I don't remember who Giffen said had created Comet Queen's look, but I do believe that she first appeared during his earliest run on the title.

Thanks for your interest in Tellus. Who knows ... maybe someday the big non-humanoid "lump" can return.

Steve Lightle

Stev, I just want to say how much I enjoyed your work on Legion, Doom Patrol and various other places here and there. Really beautiful. And it was a real kick to know that Sensor Girl was really Supergirl, at least at the early stages. I wondered why Levitz went to the trouble of hinting that Sensor was Kara, when we knew it couldn't be, due to Crisis #7. It all makes a little more sense now. Thanks for taking time to post here. I'm really looking forward to any more tidbits you may give us.

Me too! The early-ish Baxter run was one of my favourite Legion eras and all these insights are most appreciated!

Re Tellus: It's a shame that both the "mechanized voice" and "mood spot" ideas went out of the window so early on. Wasn't he "talking" to everyone telepathically by his 2nd appearance? And I don't remember seeing him change colour once! Tellus brought a lot to the Legion - having a none-humanoid on the team seemed such an obvious idea once it was done. It emphasised the book's sci-fi element and the Legion universe seemed a lot bigger because of his presence. I really liked his personality too - all super-eager and friendly, I couldn't believe it when Duo Damsel called him a "fish" - but maybe she was just voicing the opinions of the book's colourists, heh heh.

The try-out issue was one of my favourites from the entire Legion run - all the "extras" really made it stick in my mind. I especially liked the 30th century Batgirl character, the mixed-race looking bloke with the M on his chest, Energy Boy and the little kid in the blue and magenta outfit. There were enough stand-out "background" characters to make a Lightle Legion of Subsitute Heroes. Did you have plans for any of these?

Thanks for putting the extra effort in at the time Steve - it turned me into a lifetime Legion fan anyway!

I echo these sentiments. That particular tryout issue fueled my imagination for weeks as I pored over all the extra characters and their designs. The variety of costumes and characters were what initially drew me to the Legion when I was a boy and that issue threw me back to an earlier childhood feeling. Thanks for that, Steve!

For those of you who [don't] belong to LegionPics (With a nod to both Steve and Greybird who did it first - why not join? It's FREE!), here's some visual enhancements to the topics brought up on this thread.

Steve Lightle wrote:
"Awhile back Paul Levitz and I created a few Legionnaires, and assorted supporting characters. Sensor Girl was always more Paul's baby, just as Tellus and Quislet were more mine. He had this idea of doing a female character that had exaggerated sensory powers."


Steve Lightle wrote:
"Eryk Davis Ester asked:
'Can you give us any info on some of the background characters from the try-out issue (#14)? Particularly the two flying fish types and the red skinned girl with the bandana who made it on the cover.'

Those 'fish' characters have been referred to as Skreaks ... because that is the sound that Paul had them emitting whenever they appeared. I just remember tossing them in the backgrounds for some kind of visual continuity. I would repeat species types in scenes that called for the casting of 'extras' specifically to make the Legion's universe seem more real. Too often artists would create alien characters only to discard them and create new ones for the next scene. Having familiar background types seemed more realistic to me, and may have helped make it all seem a bit more real ... I hope."


Steve Lightle wrote:
"I do want to answer the question about the inspiration for Mentalla's costume. It certainly was based on Saturn Girl's earliest costume. In fact, I'd probably have given her the same hair color too, except that my wife had blonde hair at the time.

Nemisis Kid's costume had nothing to do with her appearance. I know for a fact, since I designed the character of Mentalla, that her fate was not decided at the time of her creation. In fact, she probably would never have appeared again if not for the large amount of fan mail that mentioned an interest in Mentalla. Paul conceived of the idea of having her infiltrate the Fatal 5 without any input from me. If he was subconsciously drawing inspiration from the color scheme of Nemisis Kid's costume ... I have no way of knowing.

Steve Lightle wrote:
"I did four covers on the Legends of the Legion miniseries (Umbra, Ultra Boy, Star Boy, and Lightning Lass ... I think). I also did a couple of Legion covers on Showcase a few years back."



Steve Lightle wrote:
"Are you one of the Legion fans who first saw Allegra in issues of the Legion APA KLORDNY? She did later appear as part of a super team called New Genix, in much the same way that Dave Cockrum's Nightcrawler was originally intended for the Legion but ended up in the X-Men."


Steve Lightle wrote:
"I named her Allegra (before the much advertised alergy drug) from the base word Allegro ... which basically means music played fast. I changed the "o" to an "a" to feminize it.

Pictures of the character have been circulated since 1992, in Legion fanzines and eventually in Marvel Comics Presents. The version in MCP had short hair, although the original had shoulder length hair. The other difference is that Allegra was originally supposed to be wearing a scarlet and gold costume rather than the purple and silver that I gave her for her Marvel appearances."

Steve Lightle wrote:
"Comet King asked:

<< What about that leopard-print wearing Legion applicant? Did you have any plans for her? >>

I always liked to imagine that every bit player or 'extra' was a fully realized person with a life of their own. In the case of the red skinned girl in the tiger print costume, I imagine that her powers were very similar to Timber Wolf's, and that the duplication of powers clause in the Legion rules might have killed her chances of joining the team. I also imagine that she was both young and naive, and maybe tended towards hero worship of the Legion.

She appeared again in LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #57 (May 1994). She's a member of the U.P. Military Academy and has the ability to transform into an alien-looking tiger. She also tackles Timber Wolf in the story.
They never give her a name. Hey Steve, as her creator, could you name her for us?


<< Who was responsible for Comet Queen's "look" anyway? >>

I don't remember who Giffen said had created Comet Queen's look, but I do believe that she first appeared during his earliest run on the title."


Maxwell Demon wrote:
"The try-out issue was one of my favourites from the entire Legion run - all the 'extras' really made it stick in my mind. I especially liked the 30th century Batgirl character, the mixed-race looking bloke with the M on his chest, Energy Boy and the little kid in the blue and magenta outfit. There were enough stand-out 'background' characters to make a Lightle Legion of Subsitute Heroes. Did you have plans for any of these?"

And just for the heck of it -

Steve Lightle wrote:
"Comet King asked:

<< Also - did you design Tellus? Have you heard from any other Legion artists if they liked/hated drawing him? He was quite unusual-looking (which helped make him one of my favourite Legionnaires.) >>

I did design the first non-humanoid Legionnaires Tellus and Quislet, and yes, I noticed how much trouble other artists seemed to have with staying 'on model.' One of my favorite versions of the character of Tellus was done by Art Adams. He seemed to grasp the idea that Tellus' anatomy wasn't supposed to closely resemble human anatomy. Most artists seemed to think of Tellus as a physically distorted human. They tried giving Tellus a human head/kneck/shoulders relationship, or they would give him human arms. The worst example is the artist who gave Tellus long human fingers with especially long nails. I seem to recall that George Perez did a pretty good version of Tellus also. Of course we are talking George here ... How could I be surprised that he'd go the extra mile?

As for complaints ... I was once told, shortly after introducing the character, that Tellus looked like 'a big yellow lump of sh*t.' Of course, that was only one colorist's opinion. I've got to at least give him credit for being bold enough to speak his mind. Now, if only he would have stuck with my character diagram that showed the sensor nodules on Tellus' back and face changing color to reflect the character's emotions. The idea was that Tellus had no vocal chords, and thus, no spoken language. The electronic voice that was emitted from his helmet was a translation of a purely visual language. Tellus' sensor nodules emitted a language comprised completely of ever constantly changing lights.

Thanks for your interest in Tellus. Who knows ... maybe someday the big non-humanoid "lump" can return."


Steve,

Did you want to talk about Quislet? How he was created to be an organism and not energy-based, since the Legion already had Wildfire.

We could go with something very Silver Age, and call the Legion applicant Tiger Girl ...
or we could all toss our two cents worth in ... What should the red skinned Legion applicant be named?

I wasn't aware that the character had made an appearance in the nineties. As her designer I find that both flattering and ... odd. : )

Does anyone have any ideas for a code name for this, apparently memorable, young woman?

I'll gladly volunteer to pick the winner. Of course, this is all very unofficial, since the DC editors will have the last word.

Steve Lightle

Tigra

I wonder who will have post #100?

The suspense is ... oh, I see ...

Steve

When she first appeared I imagined that she was from the same planet as Katma Tui and Sinestro from Green Lantern (although I've now forgotten what it's called) and had sort of super-athletic/animal control powers (didn't she hold what looked like a pole-vault/javelin type thing at the try-out? Or am I making things up now?)

So I always thought she could be called something like - Shanna! Or Jayna! Or one of those jungle-girl type names. Which, given the nature of this competition is a bit unhelpful...

I saw her appearance right at the end of the old Legion title too and thought that making her a were-tiger was a bit lame. Still, nice to see her though.

But what about the 30th century Batgirl? And "M" man? Those were nifty outfits too!

Although I like Maxwell Demon's train of thought, I think her skin tone is too dark for a Korugaran.

I believe that she's from Tyrraz, Tyr's homeworld. In fact in LSH #57, one of her fellow cadets is R327 of Tyrraz. I would like to think that she was throwback of her feline-originated race (kinda like Deathbird of Marvel's Shiar). She was probably persecuted by her race for not liking technology or weapons and becoming a cyborg. And when the Legion immobilized her homeworld, she left to join them.
Maybe R327 is her brother who left his Warlord ways to be with his sister? If so then her real name is probably R-some-such number. So I'd give her a name that begins with an "R". Using the Jungle Girl theme, how about Rheema, the Tiger Girl?

BTW, Rima was one of DC's Jungle Babes in the 70's.

If she is indeed from Tyrraz, why not something that incorporates tiger and Tyr...

Tyrgra
or
Tyrgress

My favourite pick of a name for a feline character has always been "Prowl".

Steve, add me to the list of those clamouring for more info on the "Batgirl" design. Was there a name for her and background?

DC may have altered Steve's tiger girl slightly like they did Allegra to become XS.
We might have seen her in the preboot TMK clone Legion as Catspaw.
Instead of using her claws on Timber Wolf, she used them on that icky Inferno.

Also, about Steve's comment that Tellus was never meant to have human anatomy ~ in the LSH Annual #2 1991, on pages 30 and 31, Valor finds the stolen metahumans in vats.

On page 30, we find that, "Not ALL of the subjects, however, can be returned to Dry life. . . "Their natural lives ended, these subjects could expect only further exploitation by the Dominators."
"556 had instructed Valor to terminate any subject in such a hopeless condition."
Valor says, "I can't do it. Forgive me, but I can't do it."

The subject looks very much like he's/she's on their way to becoming Telluses ~ multi humped back, both legs merging into one with a possible, unseen tail developing, face broadening with extended eye ridges and bumps on the sides of the face, among other traits.

I think that the writers might have planned for the Hykraius to be former metahumans on a seeded world.
I don't know if that would hold true postboot.

The Legion of the new era has shown Hykarians numerous times, though.
I found two, right away.

'Legionnaires' #43, we see in the crowd of tryouts, Tellus's (or another Hykarian's) back, along with Comet Queen, Color Kid, Infectious Lass, Calorie Queen Charma, Dev'em, Polar Boy, Crystal Kid, Fire Lad, Blockade Boy, Chlorophyll Kid, Psycho Kid, Stone Boy, Dragonmage and Night Girl, to mention those I recognized.
As well as a Borg, but I won't go into that.


We see a Hykarian again, on the cover of 'Legionnaires' #57.

We saw a possible form of Quislet in a promo poster by Olivier some time ago, too.
Only time will tell.

But those two haven't been completely lost, yet.

Shady

Somewhere else, somebody noted that the "Quislet" from the poster really was meant to be the ship "Bouncing Boy".

However, we have seen the likeness of Quislet in the new series...definitely not him...but a ship that looks just like him.

This is a quick scan from "The Legion Issue 5 - Page 5" as they approach the Kwai Town-ship:
http://www.draub.net/comics/lsh/quislet_siting_l5_pg5.jpg

Neat, eh?

I'm intrigued by the info you guys have dug up on Quislet & Tellus in the new continuity. I'd happily contribute to a story line that would re introduce either of my Legion children.

As was mentioned by another (I don't recall who), Quislet was not originally intended as an energy creature. In fact, when I got word that Paul & Greg were creating an origin for the character I actually volunteered an art patch which would have restored him to his original concept. They chose not to go with it, and thus he became an energy life form. I always felt that this rendered an otherwise very original character redundant, as the Legion already had An energy being in Wildfire.

Riddle me this ... Why would a society of energy beasts without eyes, create a inter dimensional spacecraft with a written symbol attached to it's exterior? That always stood out as an oddity to me.

Steve Lightle

OK, now I'm intrigued. If not an energy-based creature, what was Quislet originally supposed to look like? Did you have anything specific in mind? What was your original concept for the character?
(By the way, Steve, I'm enjoying this thread immensely, thanks for hanging out with us)
Juan

Didn't Quislet make a "cameo" as part of the Scavenger's collection in the first post-boot meeting with fake Superboy? I thought it was a joke at the time, an "easter egg," but then the Emerald Eye also made it's first post-boot appearance in the same issue in the same manner.

I've heard that as well...but only have the first part of the story in the Scavenger's place...and wasn't able to find Quislet in that part...so I'll have to wait until I get the continuation to enjoy it.

Here's an interesting development ... I just heard through these DC Message Boards that Mike McAvennie has been "let go." Since he is no longer editing the book, I wonder how this will effect my return to the Legion. I suppose I'll have to find out who the new editor is and make contact. Of course, it couldn't hurt if the fans on the DC Boards were to bring it to his/her attention. If you are interested in seeing me doing more Legion work, now would seem to be the critical moment to mention it.

However this plays out, I want to thank everyone who has expressed their interest in seeing me contribute more to the Legion. It was hearing about your enthusiasm for my work that brought me to these boards.

LLL!

Steve Lightle

Doh! I hope that news doesn't become a deal breaker.

Well, the best of luck. I honestly don't know where to "make noise" about wanting you to return to the title other than here...and unfortunately, I don't have any false hope that what the fans "request" here gets taken into consideration. Well, maybe a little hope.

So if there is someone reading this that has any say...here's at least one fan who would love to have Steve Lightle back on the title

steve we love your work let's hope who ever the new editor is he loves your work too...and yeah we would like quislet back and tellus too...and guys yeah quislet was in that story of the legion and the clone superboy and scvanger...it was going to be part of my new thread subplots: fulfilled or yet to be fulfilled (or ignored). and yeah the eye was there as well...

Draub said:

<< I honestly don't know where to "make noise" about wanting you to return to the title other than here...and unfortunately, I don't have any false hope that what the fans "request" here gets taken into consideration. Well, maybe a little hope. >>

About a year ago I contacted a DC editor about doing work on the Legion. I offered my services as a fill-in artist or a cover artist. Although the editor was very polite (even referring to me as Mr. Lightle), he didn't offer much hope that I might get Legion work at that time. He did tell me that he was very much aware that a vocal faction of Legion fandom wanted me to return to the series. Still, he went on to explain that "If we give the fans what they want, it may be interpreted as a lack of confidence in our current direction."

I'm not of the opinion that my contributing to the current continuity should be seen as any kind of threat to the status quo. I'd actually see it as a consolidation of two Legion factions that sometimes disagree.

Still, no matter what any one man might say, Legion fandom is a strong influence, and has had a long history of good relations with the creators. I can personally attest to that fact. Some people may put up an unusual resistance to it, but the will of Legion fandom is hard to ignore. Your voice matters.

So, even if you might feel that your opinion isn't being heeded by the decision makers ... I'll never forget your encouragement. It means a lot to me that you have consistently raised your voices in support of my contribution to the Legion.

Thank you ... and please ... keep it up.

Steve Lightle
(Legion fan and artist)

The biggest difference in this situation is that the Legion creative team is a wide open book now. There's a hole to fill, and now is the perfect time for them to conform to the desires of fans and not lose any "corporate face" in the process.

Obviously, the reason for the creative hole to fill is unfortunate. I think McAvvennie had a good go at turning the Legion in a great direction...and I'll certainly miss Coipel...

However, that doesn't detract from the fact that this is a potential win-win situation for the fans and DC.

Yay! (can't stop saying that today).

Ah ... yah.

Interpreted by whom, I wonder. Legion FANS, if this board is any sort of representative selection, would LOVE to have you back on the title in any way, shape or form.

Casual readers probably wouldn't know about your history with the Legion and couldn't care less.

Only TPTB at DC would seem to mind. Perhaps it's their wisdom that a fan-favorite artist returning to a title he is best noted for is somehow detrimental to that title.

Who'da thunk it?

Maybe I've been in customer service too long, but the notion that people won't respect you if you give them what they want just seems ... odd.

I'm sure there are those who'd say they're RIGHT, when put in the context of Giffen's return...

Juan said:
<< OK, now I'm intrigued. If not an energy-based creature, what was Quislet originally supposed to look like? Did you have anything specific in mind? What was your original concept for the character? >>

Scientists have long insisted that opposable thumbs were necessary for mankind to have ascended to his mastery of Earth ... but I started out with the idea of a possible exception to that rule. What if a species could manipulate his surroundings in a different manner? What would his physiology be like, if he had no need to physically manipulate matter? What if members of this theoretic race could animate matter and mold it to their needs? These are the questions that lead to the creation of Quislet.
I think that I was influenced along these lines while pondering what invisible forces operate on an atomic level to govern the building blocks of matter. What might the nature of those forces be?
Well ... I don't want to get too long winded this time, so I'll take up the subject of Quislet's origin again soon.
Until then ... have fun!

Steve Lightle

Tease.

just like i ALWAYS suspected: four reboots of legion,getting rid of KATAR HOL,HAL JORDAN,SUPERGIRL, the mess that is the current SPECTRE,THE KINGDOM, giffens SUICIDE SQUAD,........

IS THIS DC 'S PHILOSOPHY??
(i am one hell of a dc fan,since age 5,as a matter of fact just before reading this post i was just re-reading steve's first stint as legion artist (baxter series #3),which is still great after all these years.)
if so ,(grudginly) MAKE MINE MARVEL!!

I am anxiously awaiting the continuation of my origin

------------------
"I don't want the world... I just want your half!"
They Might Be Giants "Ana Ng"

Steve if the powers that be had any consideration for longtime fans (I think I qualify since I've been following the Legion since 1971), then you'd be the new artist. Thisfan has his fingers crossed hoping that someone in editorial sees the "light". Pun intended.
Danno

Bump! (The possibility of Steve's return to the Legion is just too tantalizing a thing to allow to fizzle out.)

I agree that the teaming up of Lightle and DnA could be a wonderful thing, and I hope that all three parties agree. In all likelihood, such a development probably wood promote some badly needed harmony among post-boot and pre-boot fans. More importantly, the cooperative efforts of these creative power-houses would certainly bring about some equally powerful stories.

Now, this may be a naive thing for me to request, but would it be possible for DnA themselves to publicly weigh in on the matter of Steve's return to the Legion's pencils? In any event, I'd enjoy hearing from you guys about anything (I really appreciate the fact that, just like Mr. Lightle, you've previously taken the time to talk to your fans on these message boards.)

Good luck, Steve! And keep up the good work, Dan and Andy!

Steve, I also loved your work on the Legion. The Legion women never looked better! I do have a question, as well. Why was the Legion rebooted? I am still not clear on this. Also, how was the decision to reboot recieved by other staff at DC, including those working on the Legion? Just wondering...and thank you very much for taking the time to hang with us Legionphiles!

BUMP for nonhumanoid Legionnaires and their esteemed creators (and to get past all those silly, you gotta admit, one-post "Legion Lost TPB" threads *sigh*) ...

What makes Steve's note on meta-origins especially interesting, thus far, is how Quislet's no-thumbs-etc. manipulation of matter ended up when manifesting in this universe. Everything he inhabited ultimately (and usually quite soon) FELL APART, remember!

I wonder if that side effect -- which happened only after Quislet had accomplished something with his possession, to be fair -- was from Paul Levitz's input to the character. To create a story-grist-building limitation or drawback of that power, perhaps?

Greybird guessed right. Paul was the one that suggested that Quislet's altered matter creations should crumble. I didn't want to dismiss his suggestions concerning the character, but the concept didn't really figure in to my thinking. I'm still not sure what scientific reason might be given to explain why Quis' creations should always dissolve.
Maybe we need some Julie Shwartz science to explain this.

Steve

Steve,

Maybe WHEN you re-introduce him into continuity, you can get rid of the crumble thing. I think it would be cool to have statues of Quislet's possessions laying around.

Also, keep Quis organic and Tellus' color communication.

Thanks,
Gary

Owl Lad said:
<< Steve, add me to the list of those clamoring for more info on the "Batgirl" design. Was there a name for her and background? >>

I always figured that the same inspiration that lead her to design an updated Bat costume would also influence her name. She'd most likely call herself Bat Girl, Nightwing, or maybe Sonar. She could have been called the Flying Fox ... but that would have been so AC Comics. : )

As for her background, maybe she (in keeping with Legion tradition) came from a world of people who used Sonar abilities in their everyday lives. Maybe she was visiting Earth at the time of the Legion tryouts, and inspired by the accomplishments of our planet's Bat Man, she decided to give it a go. After all, she might have reasoned, if non powered Earthlings can accomplish such great things in a Bat costume ...

Steve

BTW ... I should mention that the Bat Girl design we are talking about was originally done as a sample of my art. It was done specifically for the folks in the submissions department of DC. As I recall, Bat Girl was delivering a very high kick to the chin of a Teen Titans villain, as Robin and the other Titans rushed on to the scene in the background.
I'd always thought that Bat Girl's costume was a bit dull, and so I thought I'd spice it up a little. It did seem to get some attention. I remember one esteemed DC editor pulling me aside at Chicago Con and whispering, "This down here (pointing to the blue bikini style bottom)certainly gets your attention- of course, because we are both men- but it's just not practical." Of course, I countered with the impracticality of Heroines in heels, Wonder Woman's strapless bustier, men fighting in long flowing capes or wearing masks that would certainly impair their peripheral vision, the bare chested Hawkman ...
Isn't it funny how often people feel compelled to defend positions that they don't really believe in? That Bat Girl costume had served its purpose ... it got his attention.

Steve

Lancesrealm said:
<< Steve, I also loved your work on the Legion. The Legion women never looked better!
I do have a question, as well. Why was the Legion rebooted? >>

It may have just been a matter of crunching the numbers. DC editors had told me that the sales, since the beginning of the darker grimmer version of the Legion, had fallen to a fragment of what they had previously been. Although some readers truly seemed to appreciate the darker tone of the book, a great many more chose to stop buying the title. Couple the failing sales with the fact that many Legion fans within the professional community strongly disagreed with the creative direction of the series, and you can see that something was bound to happen ... or the Legion would have been cancelled outright.

Could there have been a better solution? I imagine so. Personally, I always felt that the dark grim Legion might simply be a possible future. After all, hadn't we already seen (in Legion continuity) that the Adult Legion stories of the Silver Age were not destined to be fulfilled? Levitz and Giffen did an annual that clearly showed that Shadow Lass was not doomed to die defending Earth, as had previously been shown. If the Adult Legion stories created by Shooter and Swan needn't be seen as gospel, what made the Giffen/Bierbaum adult Legion so daunting? I think the whole thing could have been dismissed by a story featuring a small group of younger Legionnaires paying a visit to their future and finding it horrific.

We could have simply returned to a time before the "5 year gap" with the young Legionnaires. They could have reported their findings to Brainiac 5, who would assure them that the time line that they visited needn't come true for them. He might tell them to keep it a secret from the others, but to consider their experience as a warning. Then, after the others left, we might see Brainy pondering quietly ... wondering if he truly believed what he had told them. What if his friends and Earth itself were truly destined for ruin? "No, it can't be. Such a fatalistic belief could destroy the heart of the Legion."

This could be followed by stories in which the Legion, especially those who had visited the future, would redouble their efforts to do good ... and to root out any cancers that might begin to develop within the Legion itself.

It might have worked.

Steve

See pages of original Steve Lightle art at ... http://www.geocities.com/stevelightle/home.html
Or see Steve's interactive online Batman adventure ... http://www.onstaradventure.com/ba_comic.htm

Remember just a while back, talking about Allegra? I mentioned that I had eventually used her as part of a super team that I wrote, penciled and inked for Marvel.

Well, here's a web site with more info, and some images from the book.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/newgenix.htm#Allegra

As I've said before, I did change her look a bit when she jumped over to New Genix. Originally I'd intended Allegra to have a scarlet and gold costume, inspired by the Flash.

Steve

Okey dokey - now we can all see what Munchkin would have looked like hows about telling us how you planned for him to join the Legion? Was he intended to join circa Tellus or for the reboot with Allegra?

I enjoyed looking at the 'New Genix' illustrations and bios.

Olivier had said in an interview, somewhere, that he was starting to redesign the Legion costumes, to give the Legion a sort of 1600's look (I think I have the era correct).

I've loved Sprouse's and Moy's designs, especially that some of the elements of the costumes were universally used for a recognizeable 'Legion' look, while keeping individuality a high priority.

If you became the primary Legion illustrator, would you design a new look for the Legion and Legion World?
Would you go for an era change - covering everyone on Earth+?

I know that I don't want this Legion to look like the pre-boot Legion.
BUT, I would certainly enjoy seeing new (and fairly practical) costumes for the 'Legion after LOST'.

Also, who would be your inker?
I'd love to see Andy continue at the job.
Would you have preference and do artists have a say in who they team with?

Shady

As neat as your idea about avoding the Legion reboot is Steve, I have a personal, selfish reason for being glad it did reboot. When Levitz' stupid Death of Invisible Kid was undone and Lyle restored in even greater glory, I was overwhelmed. Lyle being my favorite Legionnaire ...

There have been many creative developments since the reboot. I really loved the characters of Karate Kid and Ferro Lad ... both of which, I understand, have made a return since the reboot. I also understand that they're reintroducing Timber Wolf.

The reboot is here to stay, and I'm certainly not suggesting that we try to undue current Legion history in favor of a previous incarnation. Although, as I suggested, there was a time when the reboot could have been avoided. Personally, I would have preferred a solution that could have been integrated in a more organic way.

I've also long held the opinion that if a reboot was going to happen (as it has) then it should be handled by people who have a strong understanding and appreciation for what was essential to the Legion's greatness.

So, long story short ... it's cool to be happy that Invisible Kid is back.

Steve

That's correct...although at current time they're stranded on a planet that's only accessible once a decade. At least until Shikari finds 'em

That would probably be a big bonus for you...getting to draw Karate Kid under better circumstances than the first (and last) time you got to draw him.

Unfortunately at the loss of Colossal Boy/Leviathon, Lightning Lad/Live Wire, and Element Lad. So it's a trade off.
They can't even give me a Sun Boy! Steve, WHEN you start working on the book, please bring Dirk Morgna onto the team.

Thanks.

<< We could have simply returned to a time before the "5 year gap" with the young Legionnaires. They could have reported their findings to Brainiac 5, who would assure them that the time line that they visited needn't come true for them. He might tell them to keep it a secret from the others, but to consider their experience as a warning. Then, after the others left, we might see Brainy pondering quietly ... wondering if he truly believed what he had told them. What if his friends and Earth itself were truly destined for ruin? "No, it can't be. Such a fatalistic belief could destroy the heart of the Legion." >>

After about a year we could again send a group of Legionnaires into their future, and this time they might find something completely different. Perhaps they'd see a positive future, complete with Earth President Gim Allon presiding over a prosperous future. Maybe the Khunds could be beginning their integration into the mainstream of the United Planets when the Khund home world is attacked .. and the time travelling Legion could join forces with the adult Legion to defend it.

This would not only be an interesting story, but it would then put to rest the notion that the "dark" future of the "five year gap" was not the most probable future.

Whoever suggested that this could make a good elseworlds story was right. Hmmm ....

Steve Lightle

See pages of original Steve Lightle art at ... http://www.geocities.com/stevelightle/home.html
Or see Steve's interactive online Batman adventure ... http://www.onstaradventure.com/ba_comic.htm

Lyle was killed off long before Levitz touched the title. The blame for his demise belongs to Cary Bates.

The loss of Lightning Lad/Livewire & Element Lad is not the result of the reboot. Abnett & Lanning did that. Along with stranding Karate Kid & Ferro Lad and transforming Kinetrix into a statue of dirt.

Steve,

I initially suggested that your proposal for the "5-year gap" storyline be incorporated into the prior Legion continunity in an Elseworlds story in an Interlac email.

I think your idea has a lot to offer and certainly would give some of us old fart fans an opportunity to revisit this issue again and maybe put this whole subject to rest...

Additionally, it would certainly be nice to see another Legion Elseworlds story. Any chance of you proposing this to Paul & the powers that be at DC?

Glenn

Hi Steve,

On behalf of myself and the others who chat in the Legion Chatroom, I'd like cordially invite to join us every Tuesday in the "New" Legion Chatroom. We've set up a chatroom address for non AOL users and we'd love to have you join us. We chat every Tuesday from 5:30pm-6:30pm EST. If you don't have AOL, all you have to do is go to http://www.aim.com and download the AOL instant messenger and get a USERNAME. From there, send an AIM message to myself Currieray or to Bunglehex and we'll send you a "personal invite" which will take you instantly to the chatroom.

Hope to see you there!

Ray Currie
Long Live The Legion!
P.S. the URL is

aol://2719:10-4-The%20Legion

------------------
"One day, I shall come back, yes, I shall come back...until then there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxiety. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine!"

"Invulnerability? Ha! How do you measure that against a God?"

"I was alone. A billion years of solitude. A billion more. Time blurs after awhile."

Steve Lightle's two-part suggestion above for How to Avoid Death and Dissolution (also posted on LegionPics, but it's easier to reply here) ... well, it's too perfect in its being hopeful, and in the spirit of the preboot Legion, to improve upon. That's all I can say.

The Legion deserved, after thirty years, more than someone who simply wanted to Blow It All Up Real Good. I only wish a Lightle-type had been its steward, not a Giffen-type its abuser.

As to this, Steve:
>[...] This would not only be an interesting story [damn straight!], but it would then put to rest the notion that the "dark" future of the "five year gap" was not the most probable future. <

I think you must mean here "... was the most probable future," don't you? -That- is what oughtta be put to rest.

Its internal suggestion that the dark TMK-and-later future was probable or inevitable, with age and weariness, was what was wrong with it above all. The Legion is NOT properly about age and weariness! Not in characters, not in setting.

> Whoever suggested that this could make a good elseworlds story was right. Hmmm ... <

Put TMK-and-later into trade paperbacks with that Elseworlds seal on 'em, and they might actually be readable, as protracted graphic novels. Not a pleasant or enduring read, but a read. In monthly dribbled-out chunks, they were nearly unendurable, quite apart from ALL their other brutal faults.

I agree with this.
Although, I don't see that becoming older and more weary means that a team automatically becomes jaded and hopeless.
The JLA and the JSA are both teams of older members and they have very youthful attitudes, most of the time.

I wanted the team to age gracefully and the younger members to be added in as would normally happen.
We may not have ended up with Lyle and Andy, but we may have got a cousin or a nephew.

The Adult team didn't HAVE to self-destruct and the Young team didn't HAVE to be clones.
And NONE of it HAD to be rebooted.

Shady

Ah-HAH! I was right!!! Thanks, Steve! Now I can put a copy of this next to my "Kara is Sensor Girl" letter that got published waaaay back when.

------------------
"Deathtraps: When the forces of Evil acquire superpowers, they apparently also develop the ability to conceive of ridiculously convoluted ways of finishing off the good guys. It's not enough to just shoot someone in the head; instead villains conceive of deathtraps involving a bandsaw, a tub of lard, six straws, a flock of geese, and the Statue of Liberty.
Some smart villains are probably seeking therapy to help them with this."

--A.C.E. Supers (a really fun RPG)

How's this--
The target object has an innate molecular/crystaline structure. The energy patterns of the Quislet entity over-ride and erase these, both reshaping the target and replacing the previous rigid structure with flexible patterns. For example, a diamond's interlocking hexagonal bonds would be transformed into an amorphous gel.

When the Quislet-induced energy vacates, the target automatically reverts to its original state. Unfortunately the now absence of an innate pattern causes the atoms of the target to fall apart as a fine dust that quickly blows away....

Theoretically a Quislet-altered target might be stucturally stabilized by either the imposition of a new pattern or by locking in the Quislet pattern. Unfortunately, such a process would probably take longer to set up than the normal Q-time limit. Still, it might be possible to accomplish this in a controlled environment, with Quislet affecting a target already prepped for post-Q stabilization.

Okay, lecture in paranorm metastructural re-engineering over. ...

Good explanation, I say.

Personally, I always like the disintegration after-effect.

And Quislet was always a favourite of mine, by the way.

Didn't they explore this in Legion #300? We saw several different 'futures' while Braniac 5 was trying to cure Douglas Nolan (Ferro Lads Brother). At the end of the book we saw a reality where he was invited to join the Legion after the death of his brother and faded from their 'reality' to merge with his counterpart? Couldn't this whole 5 year gap be explained as the team viewing one of those 'other' realities?

..Ahh what might have been

------------------
Better to have a mind open as a book than closed as a fist

Cosmic Toast Man said:
<< Didn't they explore this in Legion #300? >.

Yes, that was the issue I was citing as precedent for the "alternate futures" premise.

I think that the only continuity problem might be that post-Crisis DC seemed to be saying that all alternate futures were merged .. but that just doesn't make much sense to me.

Steve

DavidEdwardMartin said:
<< When the Quislet-induced energy vacates, the target automatically reverts to its original state. Unfortunately the now absence of an innate pattern causes the atoms of the target to fall apart as a fine dust that quickly blows away >>

That is an incredibly well thought out theory, David. For my money, your explanation is the best we've got. I'm impressed.

Thanks for sharing that with us.

Steve

Yes, they discontinued the 'old' alternate futures/universes and replaced them with 'hypertime', as I understand it ~ which isn't very well.

Here's a fan site where the current 'hypertime' universes is explained.
http://www.geocities.com/hypertime2000/index2.html

It's a 'cool' site and very interesting.

Shady

Thanks, Shady; that site was a good read, although I admittedly still don't understand hypertime very well. Oh well.

Thanks greatly, Steve.
If you want a free copy of the first book I wrote on superpowers, click here
http://www.rabunda.com/~super/dir.php?loc=resources/articles/index.html

and look for The Ultimate Powers Book.

Oops. Try this--
http://www.rabunda.com/~super/index2.php

Oops again. Skip the last post, go back to the preceding one--
Click on "Rules" in the top bar.
Then "Marvel Super Heroes (classic rules)".
Finally "Ultimate Powers Book" (downloading is automatic)

Comet King said (quite a while ago):
<< Okey dokey - now we can all see what Munchkin would have looked like hows about telling us how you planned for him to join the Legion? Was he intended to join circa Tellus or for the reboot with Allegra? >>

Munchkin, or Neutron as he prefered to be called, was originally going to be the youngest of the new members created for the reboot. I had this notion that this excitable kid with super powers would come in ready to become an overnight sensation. as you can tell, he was a bit geeky looking, but he had big plans of becoming a teen idol. His hero was Sun Boy. Dirk was always attracting girls in droves, and seemed to Munchkin to know what the whole super-hero game was all about.

After Brainy showed him a fragment of a Superman newsreel that had survived from the 21st century , Munchkin changed his whole image. The next day he surprised the other Legionnaires with the news that he was changing his name to SUPERBOY. He insisted on wearing a Superman costume and proclaiming himself the new "man of steel" ... but nobody really went for the idea. Eventually he'd give up the Superboy identity and go on to the next thing. I imagined that Munchkin was the kind of kid who couldn't stay with one thing for long ... He just had a hard time choosing between all the possibilities. The only thing that he didn't change his mind about was the name Munchkin. He hated it. But, since his buddy Dirk gave it to him he'd have to tolerate it ... begrudgingly.

This was all part of my early scripts for the Legionnaires reboot. Quislet was a member too, although with a slightly different personality, and a redesigned ship/life support vessel. He also was back to my original plan for the character ... he had a physical body that stayed inside the vessel at all times. Only his spirit force could exit the ship ... and then only for short periods of time. Karate Kid was also part of the team, as was Dream Girl and Ferro Lad.
It's a pity that those stories weren't printed. I had a lot of fun working on them.

Steve Lightle

Hey, Steve. Did you begin drawing any of these stories? Anything unpublished we can have a look at?

Mike

Um...does that mean I have to change my name to Munchkin now? Throw in the "geeky" and you just described my life

Sounds a little like he had Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)!


I've been wondering what your take is on the Legion we have now.
Are you at all familiar with where DnA have taken them this last 3 years?

What do you think of XS?

DnA have just taken Dreamer from ditz to awesome, haunted leader of 'joint worlds' freedom fighters and a Kundian trained martial artist!
(Thank Gawd, I hated her pre-boot.)

Umbra/Shady is an intense fighter, trained from infancy, powered with solid dark forces, when she wants, and an uber b-itchy attitude.

The winged Shikari is from another galaxy or universe and a new member, while Gear is substantially autotronic/bionic and a 'brother'.
The other black member is the new leader, Jazmin, and she has a 'time element' to her powers.
Just to mention a few of the new and old members.

What do you think of this team?

Shady

Shady asks:
<< I've been wondering what your take is on the Legion we have now. >>

I have yet to read a full issue since the last batch of reference copies that were sent to me. That was reference for the LEGENDS of the LEGION covers that I did.

<< What do you think of XS? >>

I think XS is a great character, and I enjoyed taking about a week to pencil and ink an XS story a couple of years ago. It did feel a bit odd to me at first though, because she so completely resembles my character ALLEGRA, who was created in the planning stages of the reboot. But I just embraced the idea of being XS' "grandfather" and had a good time with it.

<< DnA have just taken Dreamer from ditz to awesome, haunted leader of 'joint worlds' freedom fighters and a Kundian trained martial artist! >>

It sounds like she's been treated respectfully, although I'd have to disagree with your defining the preboot Nura as a "ditz." I know that she had been interpreted poorly after the 5 year gap, but I don't blame the character for the fact that she seemed to be mishandled by the creative team. The Nura that I remember was very intelligent, a resourceful fighter (one of the Legion's best hand to hand combatants)... and incredibly manipulative. Dreamy always used her carefully sculptured image to her advantage. Brainiac 5 appreciated her intelligence, Karate Kid considered her one of his most accomplished students ... and the female Legionnaires despised her use of sexuality to get what she wanted ... especially because it almost always worked.

<< Umbra/Shady is an intense fighter, trained from infancy, powered with solid dark forces, when she wants, and an uber b-itchy attitude. >>

I've always had a fondness for Shadow Lass, while wondering if the character ever had been written to her full potential. I look forward to seeing this current incarnation. She may just have arrived.

<< The winged Shikari is from another galaxy or universe and a new member >>

I've seen drawings of the character, but that is somewhat like seeing someone from across a room. I don't really feel I know her yet.

I've loved the Legion characters and concepts for a long time, and my attraction to the series has never depended solely on how they were being treated by their creative team. I look at a series and I see its potential, and the Legion has always had great potential, even when it was being mishandled. There have been many periods in Legion publishing history where the book seemed to flounder creatively, either due to lack of commitment from the creators, or because of misunderstanding of the core concepts. From what I have heard, this doesn't appear to be one of those times.

When I was on the Legion, I was involved in every aspect of the series. I contributed to the personalities and the story content and designs. As I've said before, Paul Levitz was a very generous collaborator, and he allowed me to be deeply involved in all areas. That isn't always the case with writers. Some guard "their" characters very jealously. I can understand this because, on some level I still think of these characters as my characters. It's almost like they are your friends, or your children. You get to know them intimately, because you have to imagine yourself in their heads. You want them to be as real to you as possible so that you can , in turn, make them real to your readers.

I suppose I'm guarding myself a little bit, concerning the latest version of the Legion. You see, I've only been offered a fill-in issue at this point. Even I couldn't tell you how involved I am going to be allowed to be.

LLL!

Steve Lightle

....and the female Legionnaires despised her use of sexuality to get what she wanted ... especially because it almost always worked.

Steve there's an expression out today that fits what Nura could have said to them all
"You're Just Jealous" lol.

^^^
I don't think it was 'just' jealousy.

When a woman uses those tactics when she doesn't have to, she cheapens women's abilities to make a difference on their own merits, without a man's covering of power.

The only time a woman should legitmately use her sexuality for manipulation is when the 'rules' of society don't allow her any other choice but impotence.
IMO.

As has been stated by Steve, already, Nura was brilliant and a good fighter.
Her sexual manipulations and her mental self-involvement were insults to women, and to beautiful women, especially.

Shady

Dream Girl is my favorite, and has been since I first started picking up LSH recent (at the time) back issues in 10- and 25-cent bins around 1984. I thought she was a hoot!

I'm going to start a thread for Nura like the "describe the character" threads that we had several months ago. If you'd like to discuss Miss Nal there too, I'll appreciate your thoughts and opinions.

Steve,

It's great to hear about your fill-in. Let's hope it leads somewhere.

BTW, when Shady mentioned Nura being a "ditz," she was referring to her post-boot appearances starting with LEGIONNAIRES #43 (Dec 96).
The same issue that gave us a snake called Sensor and Shadow Lass as Umbra! She was called a narcoleptic fortune-teller with the real "last name of Schnappin." She appeared on and off after that as Star Boy's weird, flower-child like girlfriend.

Lucky for us, DnA gave her a personality closer to her roots in LEGION WORLDS #4 (Sept 01).

Hmmm, I'm beginning to understand Shady's objection to a particular version of Nura. It sounds like the current Nura has a lot to offer.

Steve

Quislet said:
<< I am anxiously awaiting the continuation of my origin >>

Sorry to keep you waiting, dude.

Here's an excerpt from last nights live Legion chat. We did touch on the subject.

<< Lightles: Tellus and Quislet were my attempt to create truly alien Legionnaires
Lightles: Lots of people resisted the idea of non humanoids
Lightles: They believed that readers wouldn't be capable of relating
Mxy2001: the comic book biz should adopt theatre logic ... never underestimate the intelligence your audience!.
BungleHex: Well... its not so wrong, in general sci-fi fans are conditioned to dislike non humanoids
Lightles: One thing that bothered me was that after I left the book ...
Lightles: they did a story revealing Quislet to be an energy being
Lightles: That was never my intention when I created him
Mxy2001: what was he Steve?
Mxy2001: was he a little bitty teen in a sentient ship?
Lightles: He was a boneless jellyfish like alien
Lightles: ugly as hell
Lightles: with organs visible through his skin
BungleHex: Quislet was a TV executive?
Lightles: I was never really certain that Tellus was male
Lightles: He/she may have been more of an it
KWinDC: that would have been interesting
Mxy2001: asexual reproduction?
KWinDC: oh was Tellus going to be more...i dont know bent as it were
Lightles: So unlike us that sexual identity needn't apply
Lightles: I lost all interest in Quislet when they told that bogus origin
KWinDC: why didnt they go w/ your idea?
Lightles: it made no sense to have him a sentient spark
Lightles: it was redundant ... they already had Wildfire
Lightles: And it just wasn't logical that an energy being would build a technological ship
Lightles: with a visual symbol on it
Lightles: Sparks don't have eyes. >>

There's a little bit more on the subject over on that thread. I did neglect to mention that Quislet's physical form also included prominent sensory organs (such as eyes)and reproductive organs. His society was very hedonistic by nature. Everything revolved around the physical senses. You can sort of see why he wasn't seen outside his ship/life support vessel. But, dang it, it's not Quislet's fault that he doesn't appeal to the human ladies! : )

Steve Lightle

When did Nura actually manipulate anyone, using her sexaul prowess? I claim that all she really did was flirt with the boys. She wasn't trying to get anything out of it. She was just having fun. Even when she first met the Legion, she didn't do anything particularly sexual to get the guys to vote her in. All she did was look good. The girls voted her out just because she looked good. Granted, the writing for the girls back in the 60s was abominable, especially by today's standards, but I say Dreamy was innocent. She didn't promise any of the boys any favors or anything like that. Also, I don't think Nura was ever rude to any of the other girl Legionnaires. Even the catty Phantom Girl and Shadow Lass. Maybe all this belongs on the new Nura thread, but I really would like someone to point out exactly what Nura did to earn this reputation.

Too bad we'll never know now -- it's not like he ever had a chance. For all we know, the enlightened ladies of the 30th century might've been able to see beyond his squishy form (and if not, I'm sure there were inflatable boy-toys he could've inhabited ;))

------------------
"GL : Animated" and others
Hal Jordan - Green Lantern (artwork)

Hey you -- Go read "The Legion" (starring WILDFIRE!)
--- Some Legion art

Hey, Shady....let's not let it go without comment that STEVE LIGHTLE called you "Shady"! I'm so jealous!

^^^
Yes, I had to reread that comment a couple of times before I figured out what he was saying. I kept associating Tasmia with his 'Shady' and couldn't make the sentence make any sense.

Then, I blushed and beamed!


Shady

Maybe someday Steve'll call me "Lardy"...

Sorry but did Steve decide on a name for "Tiger girl" yet?

------------------
Jenny:"Okay, so this Master guy tried to open the Hellmouth, but he got stuck in it. And now all the signs are reading that he's going to get out, which opens the Hellmouth, which ends the world."

Giles:"Yes. That about sums it up, yes."

Jenny:"The part that gets me, though, is where Buffy is the Vampire Slayer. She's so little."

Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Season 1, "Prophecy Girl"

No name for "Tiger Girl" yet.

I know that a few suggestions were made, but none has struck me as THE name. We may have to wait on this one ...

Anyone got some other ideas they'd like to chuck into the ol' hat?

As Silver Age as it sounds, if we don't get some inspiration going, I think she's just going to have to be "that cute, red skinned Tiger Girl."

Steve

Eryk Davis Ester writes:

<< when you do your fill-in issue(s), could you work the "Skreaks" into the background somewhere? >>

I don't see any opportunity to fit them into my first issue ... but maybe in my second one, if the script permits.

Steve

By the way ...

How's it going, Lardy?

I just couldn't resist.

Steve

How about Tigress or Catseye (the code name is no longer used)

How about:

Cattitude
Purrfection
Felinity

Hey Steve,

How about "Prowl"? I've always thought it fitting for a feline/stealth-like character.

I like that name (my favorite Transformer ;)). Regardless of the codename, her civilian name should be Toni

And since this is the DCU, is there anything preventing her from taking the name "Cat-woman" or "Huntress"?

------------------
"GL : Animated" and others
Hal Jordan - Green Lantern (artwork)

Hey you -- Go read "The Legion" (starring WILDFIRE!)
--- Some Legion art

Hey, Prowl's one of my favorite Transformers too! Right up there with Ironhide and Jazz... you go, guy!

'Prowl' is nice, but I don't know why 'Catspaw' isn't useable.
That way, we might get a reappearance/rebooted version of her later.

Shady

[swoon]

J-just fine, M-Mr. Lightle sir!



(Who says a little shameless hint-dropping never works!)

Catspaw has appeared post-boot in LEGIONNAIRES #69 (Mar 99). She's on page 2 as one of the potential applicants for McCauley's Workforce. As well as "her counterpart" Lupine and Piston, a Tyrazzian whose power is in his armor.
Obviously, they didn't make the cut, but she's out there somewhere.

I'm starting to like Tiger Girl a lot.

I seem to recall considering Huntress as a possibility ...

But right now, I'm leaning towards Tiger Girl ... it just sounds so early Silver Age.

Steve

~SCARLET CLAW

~FUZZY WUZZY

~FELINA HAIRBALL

CAT LASS!

Whiskaz?

Ummm ... We may have to go back to referring to her as that bright red girl with the headband and tiger striped costume.

Steve

So she is!
Thanks so much!
I had completely missed that.

And McCauley didn't 'adopt' Lori, Amilia became her 'foster parent'.
Maybe, she's not his rich inheritor.

As for red faced Tiger Girl ~ how about Kitara?
That's similar to a 'ThunderCats' name but I don't know if the spelling is the same.

Did somebody already mention Tigress?

Cat Lass is good, too, in a LLASHy kind of way.

Whiskaz!

Shady

I'm with MLLASH on this one. One thing that's missing from the current Legion....the "Lass" monikers. Cat Lass or Tiger Lass would be so much more "Legion Silver Age" than Cat Girl or Tiger Girl

Catless? Cutless?

I like the occasional use of the antiquated "Lass" ... but you have to be careful about the sound of it. Shadow Lass worked ... Lightning Lass worked ...

On the other hand, Tigress isn't bad ... but hasn't it been used a few times before? It's pretty hard to come up with a superhero code name that hasn't been used before ... nearly impossible, I've tried.

Steve

Well Quislet and Tellus seem pretty unique. Not sure if Steve came up with them or Paul Levitz did.

I still like "Tellus" as the code name for a telepath.

------------------

We'll be safe for now--thank goodness we're in a bowling alley

I suppose ***** Galore would be a little too off-color for the feline character? Not to mention trademarked....well, never mind.

I beleive Steve said before that Paul came up with the names. Steve created the looks.

Nightcrawler is partly correct. Except, I never claimed that my involvement in the creation of those two characters was limited to their designs.

Paul and I worked very closely to develop the details of our Legion creations. Although the characters of Tellus and Quislet were both initially proposed by me, the final names we settled on came from Paul. I can't remember all the different possibilities we went through. I do seem to remember Paul referring to, the character that came to be known by the name Quislet, as Starworm. Now, you tell me, just how do you tell someone as talented as Mr. Levitz, that the name he came up with sucks? I really worried over this one ...'cuz my new Legionnaire just couldn't be stuck with the name Starworm ... oh, no! I had suggested the name Dybbuk, which to the best of my understanding, means "mischievous spirit" in Hebrew. Well, I guess the name I proposed carried too much religious baggage with it. Apparently, Dubbuk has some negative aspects to it that are not easily summed up by the word mischievous. Well, Karen and Paul vetoed my suggestion, and I vetoed Starworm ... When Paul countered with Quislet, I had my doubts. I didn't want him cursed with the fate of a "Quisling." But, frankly, after Starworm, I think I was relieved to hear the name Quislet.

As for Tellus ... I remember someone suggested the name Mind-Monster ... which I was dead set against. If we were showing the Legion's acceptance of non-humanoid team members, the last thing we needed was to refer to them as monsters or worms. I wanted something that sounded more alien. I wanted it to seem that their code names might have originated from their individual cultures.

Since I already determined, to a great extent, the reasoning behind their abilities and their cultures, I was happy to defer to Paul on their names ... just so we didn't end up calling them Starworm and Mind-Monster.

I think that Tellus and Quislet have held up pretty well through the years.

Steve Lightle


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Play the Gauntlet of Doom game ... http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/play/action/batman_gauntletofdoom/index.html

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"Star Worms and Mind Monsters" Oh my!

Thanks for the name origins, Steve. I'm always fascinated by how certain creations get their names. Good call on the vetos!

Happy Thanksgiving to all my fellow Canadian Legion fanboys!

I'm curious about something.

When a topic becomes large ,,, say 8 pages or more ... does it seem too imposing for readers? Does it just seem like too much to take in? or, like me, do a large number of people routinely check the last page of a favorite thread to see if anything new has been added?

I'd really like to know, as I'm relatively new to these message boards.

Thanks,

Steve

8 pages is not particularly long for this board, I'm afraid, as conversations tend to meander.
Which is a good thing, in my view.

I always check the last page or two, of a thread I've been following.
If I start reading a thread I've come to late, I usually just read the whole thing, but not always.

If you'd prefer to start new threads along the same lines, you can, of course.

Redundancy of comments can be harder to deal with though, since what's already been said on the topic gets lost.

However, if we get bogged down in something, a new thread can help freshen things up.

Ahhh, for simple 'black and white' answers.
sigh

Shady

What Shady said goes for me too.

------------------

We'll be safe for now--thank goodness we're in a bowling alley

No comprehensive exams on this board. I usually just read the first page and the last few.

Sometimes I'll read the middle to find a really good post that I can cut and paste to see if anyone notices (kidding )

Whadaya mean these boards meander?

200

200

My turn for 200...

Especially when 200 bumps it to 9.

Steve, do us a favor and try and sneak either the Skreaks or Tiger Girl into the background of your Keith Champagne issue.

Thanks.

Nightcrawler, I think it would be great to sneak the Skreaks into the 31st century.

You know, I once drew them in an issue of Quasar. That was one of many signs I put in, just to show the Legion fans that I remembered.

Will the next Legion script give me the chance? I'm not sure ... but I'll be looking for an opportunity. : )

Steve

Me, I'm just posting in order to get rid of that darn "New Member" tag

Actually, I wanted to through out a few suggestions for codenames for "that tiger girl"

Lea (as in Leo)
Gata (or Gatah, if you want to hide the spanish root some)

How about Leolah?

Shady

How about Newmarr? As homage to Julie?????

Steve, at least throw Quislet's ship in the background somewhere in your upcoming issue. It'd be easy to do. And maybe someone like Radiation Roy from the LSV. Have him slumming around the LSH headquarters.

Funny that you should mention Julie Newmar ... If you want to see the only drawing I've ever done of Ms. Newmar, go to ...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArtPost/

You don't have to join the group to see the drawing. BTW, it also features a certain Boy Wonder and a girl named Harley.

Steve


See my art on the Gauntlet of Doom game ... http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/play/action/batman_gauntletofdoom/index.html

Or you can check out my interactive online Batman adventure ... http://www.onstaradventure.com/ba_comic.htm

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Wow! Thanks for the link! I love your rendition of Julie! The Batman TV series may be campy, but you can't deny Julie Newmar was a terrific Catwoman.

You've got to slip this into your issue as well. Man, these requests have got to be getting old on you. You won't have any room for any of the Legion!

Jafabian urged:

<< You've got to slip this into your issue as well. >>

Now, you've got to admit that shoehorning this Catwoman/Robin/Harley drawing into the backgrounds of an issue of Legion is a pretty big challenge ... but those Skreaks ... that just might be doable.

Steve

Okay, everyone, hear's what I'm thinking ...

We've said a lot during the course of this thread, and I'd like to keep it going.

So, I suggest that we keep it alive as the primary connection between me and Legion readers here on the DC Message Boards.

So, if you have a question or comment that you want to make sure that I read, please post it here.

****

Now, to get things started, I'll propose a topic that everyone should be able to get into ...

I've been noticing that there is a continued interest in Legion couples. People are interested in what might be happening between Apparition and Ultra Boy ... and Saturn Girl ... and maybe even Timber Wolf. Are Dreamer and Star Boy destined to be an item?

From the beginning, there have been Legion couples, like ...

Saturn Girl & Lightning Lad
Mon-El & Shadow Lass
Timber Wolf & Light Lass
Dream Girl & Star Boy
Dawnstar & Wildfire
Brainiac 5 & Supergirl
Duo Damsel & Bouncing Boy
Shrinking Violet & Lightning Lass
Etc.

Now, in current continuity, we've had relationships between Saturn Girl & Livewire, Dreamer and Star Boy ... Does this mean that other famous Legion couples from before the reboot will end up together in current continuity? Are Valor and Umbra destined to be soul mates? Will Karate Kid end up wooing a snake?

I'm figuring that things may go a little differently this time around. As I'm drawing the Umbra issue I find myself thinking that she'd look good with Timber Wolf. You know, they could make an interesting couple. There's lots of potential for intriguing character interaction in those two.

Are there current Legionnaires that you think might find a mutual attraction, or a moment of lust?

Who should be with whom, and why?

Should Dreamer and Star Boy go their seperate ways?

Any thoughts?

Steve Lightle

Saturn Girl & Brainy:
I've always thought the two of them would make a good match. She's certainly intelligent enough for him to find attactive and her telepathy would sure be useful in figuring him out when he has one of his episodes.

Lyle & Jan:
I've always felt the two of them were, well...umm...you know "card carrying members" of the same club and would make a good pairing. If you can do Vi & Ayla, you should be able to do these two (particularly after the Shavaughn Erin plot line way back when)

Mon & Dawnstar:
Both are natural explorers in a sense & love the open expanses of the universe. They could eventually take off to experience the beauty of far flung galaxies

BTW, I also find your suggestion of T Wold and Shady very intriguing

Also, thanks for your continuing willingness to participate on these boards and for seeking input from all of us. I think it's terrific that you are willing to do so.

V

Gotta admit, I most always thought that the relationships amongst the active members was distracting and generally not well done.

Stereotypically, the male ego "protecting" the female. The female getting upset. The male ego getting upset when "shown up." Bash Bash, ya da ya da, nothing ever new or imaginative.

The better view of those relationships, for me, occurred as they moved away from active membership. Val and Projectra, Monel and Shady touring the Universe, Imra-Garth on Winath, DD-BB at the Academy. The couples worked together. Truly the whole became stronger than the parts.

Legion relationships that did work for me, were those with people outside but connected to the Legion. Gim-Yera, Dirk-Shaun, Quislet-Quislet ...


So I guess, call me a no vote to Umbra-T-Wolf.

BTW, It never occurred to me that wearing green fishnet underwear and a yellow cape might be something that I would want to do until I saw your drawing of Julie, Harley, and Robin.

AND Imra fulfills that 'powerful blonde' profile that Brainy's so attracted to (assuming that finally meeting his evil mama hasn't changed that... which is certainly possible).

I'd like to see Brainy and Umbra together- a potentially volatile match that also has a (mostly) unexplored preboot precedent.



I recently reread Jan's 'origin' issue and was struck by how similar the pattern of Invisible Kid following Jan to Roxxas' spaceship was to the initial romantic 'origins' of Ultra Boy/Phantom Girl, Shrinking Violet/Duplicate Boy and Light Lass/Lone Wolf.

So I think this would be a great idea-- if Jan ever returns to current continuity as a hero (boy, do I hope so...).



I like this idea, too-- if nothing else, M'on and Dawnstar should be great friends.

I'd like to see Lar Gand, the man from the past, pair up with Dreamer, the woman who sees the future. At least for a storyline all their own, even if there aren't any romantic overtures.

TN

AND Imra fulfills that 'powerful blonde' profile that Brainy's so attracted to (assuming that finally meeting his evil mama hasn't changed that... which is certainly possible).

I'd like to see Brainy and Umbra together- a potentially volatile match that also has a (mostly) unexplored preboot precedent.



I recently reread Jan's 'origin' issue and was struck by how similar the pattern of Invisible Kid following Jan to Roxxas' spaceship was to the initial romantic 'origins' of Ultra Boy/Phantom Girl, Shrinking Violet/Duplicate Boy and Light Lass/Lone Wolf.

So I think this would be a great idea-- if Jan ever returns to current continuity as a hero (boy, do I hope so...).



I like this idea, too-- if nothing else, M'on and Dawnstar should be great friends.

I'd like to see Lar Gand, the man from the past, pair up with Dreamer, the woman who sees the future. At least for a storyline all their own, even if there aren't any romantic overtures.

TN

Sorry for the double-post, but I guess it's sort of appropriate for a segment of a thread dealing with couples...:)

I'd like to join the others in thanking you for posting here, Steve.

I enjoy your Legion work *very* much, and I like hearing the 'behind the scenes' info you're sharing. As well as your ideas- which are intriguing.

ToddN.

I tend to think Brin/Umbra and Brainy/Imra, as couples, are too similar to each other.
They share the same weaknesses.
Brin and Umbra are impulsive and violent and physically oriented (bet they'd have a great affair with a miserable and angry break-up).
Brainy and Imra are emotionally withdrawn, self motivated & self involved, considering themselves outside of the norm and their people.
(He's too immature for her, as well. Imra likes 'big hunks', post-boot.)

From my perspective, Imra and Brin would make an interesting couple. He's so 'now' and she's so 'think it over'.
(I'd kind of like Imra with the postboot Dirk, the future Sun Boy/Sunstorm/Firestorm, as an alternative.)

Umbra turned to Querl during the LOST. Not physically but mentally and spiritually.
She was afraid and he was there for her.
Many of her people are green, post-boot, as well.
If they don't become a 'couple', I'd still like her to choose him to be the father of her first child, which her ancestors were pushing her to have to replace the lineage, during LOST.
It would be interesting to see how he reacts to having a child that is almost immediately given over to the state to raise, the way Tasmia AND Querl were.
(I'm torn, because I'd like to see Lar and Tasmia together again, in the end, too.)
sigh

I think that Ayla and Cham have run their course, I'd like to see Cham turn to his best friend, Jeka, for comfort and a budding love.
One of the most unnatural story elements of the pre-DOA era was the two of them just becoming friends, IMO.

Just because Jan was bisexual, preboot, doesn't mean that he is postboot.
It would be interesting to see what he'd be like as an older teen, he was certainly wonderful in his hologram.

Personally, I'd like to see him with Jazmin.
Sort of Earth and Sky, together.
They just feel right, as a couple, to me.
(I'd like Jaz to have long, soft, Diana Ross hair, myself, to match his curls.)

Grey wants Dawny and Lar together.
If she's rebooted the way she was preboot, I don't know.
The two of them, as a couple, just doesn't work for me.

Shikari and Gates, yah!
(Gates needs to cocoon and emerge just a little more humanoid, I think, with wings, but keep the eyes, funny hair and tail.)


Zoe and Violet, yea!
Rond and Lori!
Nura and Lar sound spectacular together, too.

Truthfully, I'd like to see some more futuristic relationships, rather then just 'couples'.
On 'Enterprise', Dr. Phlox has 3 wives and they each have 2 other husbands.

That's a 'little' complicated, but many scifi stories explore alternate possibilities.

Shady

Brin and Ayla were always my favorite Legion couple, and I'm still convinced that the Ayla-Vi thing was done as a slam on Timber Wolf, along with all that Furball nonsense.

WOW! Great stuff, Steve. Man, I wish like hell that YOU were taking over the art chores full-time--- I don't mean to "diss" Walker, but his work just doesn't dazzle like you or Olly...:(

WOW! Great stuff, Steve. Man, I wish like hell that YOU were taking over the art chores full-time--- I don't mean to "diss" Walker, but his work just doesn't dazzle like you or Olly...:(

I like the Cham/Spark relationship.

I like change too much. I can see keeping one pre-boot relationship intact, to carry some form of tradition through, and Jo and Tinya are married and parents, so they're elected (plus they got shafted pre-boot, so they can have it this time around).

Thom and Nura, Lu and Chuck, split 'em up.

I've always been partial to a Cosmic Boy - Spark (or Live Wire, as she prefers, but I didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea :)) pairing. It's got a loose founders vibe, as Ayla is Garth's twin. Plus you've got the stable one-perky one dynamic.

Brin and Imra would be an interesting pairing, but one I can't quite see lasting.
M'On and Dreamy would be pretty interesting to see as well (plus they'd be the "pretty" couple :))

I'd like to see Brainy with Shvaughn. I'm not really sure why, aside from I think of them as having a distant relationship, both with other responsibilities that come first, but their time together is very passionate and involved. Plus she could keep Brainy in line

I still have a hard time seeing Kari with anybody from the Legion's universe. She's still too much an outside observer. I think she'd be happiest with another of the Kwai.

I liked it when Saturn Gil and Cosmic Boy were an item for awhile. They have a lot in common in their personality traits. Both are extremely dedicated to the LSH and see a lot of the same viewpoints.

A brief fling between Saturn Girl and Timber Wold might be interesting, just as a poke at the whole Jean Grey/Wolverine relationship.

And I'd like to see the flirtatious Sun Boy/Inferno from the Bierbaum days go with Dreamy for awhile. But they're really just using each other. But who' s using who??? (Whoa. Sounds like a Three's Company episode.)

I liked it when Saturn Gil and Cosmic Boy were an item for awhile. They have a lot in common in their personality traits. Both are extremely dedicated to the LSH and see a lot of the same viewpoints.

A brief fling between Saturn Girl and Timber Wold might be interesting, just as a poke at the whole Jean Grey/Wolverine relationship.

And I'd like to see the flirtatious Sun Boy/Inferno from the Bierbaum days go with Dreamy for awhile. But they're really just using each other. But who' s using who??? (Whoa. Sounds like a Three's Company episode.)

Steve, just read your message on you primarily posting on this thread. I posted this originally on the Steve Lightle return to the Legion thread:

Hey Steve. Count me in on having you return to the LSH.

I haven't collected the book since Live Wire was killed off. Since Keith Giffen's "Blade Runner" experiment w/ the LSH I have felt this book had begun to lose the qualities that made this series unique and special. The Bierbaums and Chris Sprouse slowly began to recapture it but when they left I felt the book began to go in a different direction again. Live Wire being killed off was the final straw for me and having Element Lad killed only pushed me away further. I don't even need to mention how I took it when Leviathan was killed.

I must stress that I'm not taking these "deaths" personally. I fully understand that these are fictional characters and that the writers have every right to write their stories. In my opinion though, these actions were done for the sake of writing a story and were not a natural progression. In fact, quite the opposite. I felt the death of Colossus in X-Men was similar to these situations and also out of character and unessesary from a storytelling perspective. Consiquently, that book lost a reader. I hope I made my point clear and if I didn't I apologize.

The recent Ra's Al Ghul storyline caught my eye however. And news that you will do some upcoming issues only makes me excited to collect LSH again. It was the story "The Fatal Five Who Twisted Time" by Cary Bates and Dave Cockrum that got me started in comics and as far as I'm concerned you drew the last LSH issues where they were true to their original conception.

I heartily applaud your return and anxiously await the publishing of your latest work. Now if only you could go over to Doom Patrol with Gary Martin again, life would be perfect.

No Watcher. I don't live in the past. I just know a good thing when I see it.

IP: Logged

I replied to this on the LegionPics list, but I don't think I made much sense (I hate the flu), and it's more appropriate here anyway sooo...

I agree with Shady about a Brin/Tasmia or an Imra/Querl pairing. They're just too much alike.

If the conflict between Umbra and Cham was for a reason other than xenophobia, then I'd like to see them together; I thought they had some good scenes together during Legion Lost. But I think the xenophobia is probably an insurmountable obsticle at this time.

I wouldn't mind seeing Brin and Vi get together. They're both avid fighters, and they're also both supportive types. However, they react to things differently. Brin lives by his instincts; Vi doesn't trust hers. She's an introvert; he's an extrovert. He's volitile; she's calm. I think it's a good ballance.

The only couple a see as set in stone are Tinya and Jo. If Sensor started walking, I might add Val and Jeckie to the list. They deserve a happier ending than they got the first time around.

I am still hoping for an Invisible Kid - Violet pairing, they would make a wonder Spy oriented couple. And Lightning Lass and Chameleon was such a surprising match in the early reboot that it should be given another look. For something a bit more unusual, how about Imra and Lar Gand? He certainly has the patience needed to work with her and both have earned the other's respect numerous times. Imra (with permission) could understand Lar in ways that only she has the ability and control to manage (via telepathically seeing his memories). Two strong people with troubled pasts, working together toward a better future.

I don't think ever gracious M'onel would be very attracted to Umbra's current edgy persona. And if he was able to tame it - then she wouldn't be as interesting a character. I think Steve's suggestion of Brin and Tasmia could work. Brin has enough of an edge to match her's but has demonstrated a strong loyal and caring side (with Tinya and baby Nah) as well. I'd love to see Lar with Lu this time around. They seem to have some kind of a bond (see their interaction in Legion World #1 as well as their mutual Ra's butt kicking session). It would be nice, post-boot, to finally see Lu's crush on Superboy-substitute M'onel reciprocated.

in the current continuity, I would have some serious reservations about M'Onel and Lu being together, simply because she considers him a god. That sort of worship doesn't really equate well to equal partners.

However, if you want a Superboy substitute, I know reaction to Kon-El has been pretty lukewarm around this board overall, but I thought there was some interesting chemistry between he and Lu during the brief SB-LoSH crossover and I've always liked the character. I relate to Kon-El in a wearing our hearts on our sleeve sort of way.

[in the current continuity, I would have some serious reservations about M'Onel and Lu being together, simply because she considers him a god. That sort of worship doesn't really equate well to equal partners.]

Michael - I know that was Lu's reaction to Lar in the beginning but I think she has come to terms with it and now sees him as humanized, while still appreciating his Valor legend. In any case, I like the idea of switching the couples around a bit post-boot so I'd be happy to see her with anyone but Chuck.

I'd like to see some couples switch around, too.
Just not the 'great loves'.
Somehow, those should stay intact and there really wasn't very many of them.

Jo and Tinya
Shady and Mon
Lydda and Rokk

Any other couples really have long term Legion romances, ones that crossed eras and minor boots before Zero Hour?

Garth was Proty, so I don't think Imra and he count ~ especially since he was dead and Proty revived before they had a romance.
Brainy and Kara only kissed.
Laurel ended up having a child with Rond.

Ayla was with Vi only after years with Brin.
I seem to remember Lightle saying something to the effect that he and Levitz certainly never intended the two of them to be a couple during their run on the Legion.
(I hope I'm remembering those comments correctly.)

I might add Val and Jeckie, except to this point, there IS no Jeckie.

I'm not usually a traditionalist, and I'd be interested in other combinations for those 6 people, if I had to.
I'd just like them to END UP with each other.

sigh
Shady

You know, I just realized... after all this time in the reboot, Lydda and Rokk STILL have not met.

Someone should really fix them up!

Shady said:
<< Ayla was with Vi only after years with Brin.
I seem to remember Lightle saying something to the effect that he and Levitz certainly never intended the two of them to be a couple during their run on the Legion. >>

I think that the attraction was the brainchild of a later creative team, but my memory isn't clear on that. The funny thing is that some fans credit my issues for laying the groundwork for the relationship. They cite a sisterly hug that I drew, suggesting that it was an expression of physical attraction. I suppose that any personal interpretation is valid, that certainly wasn't my intention. I simply wanted to show a real moment of human camaraderie. I probably would have been slow to embarrass Brin by having him lose his girl to another team mate. I always thought that Timber Wolf didn't get enough respect, in those days.

I do remember being invested in the idea that Vi should show more self confidence, and often tried to show her strength. It was other creators who interpreted that strength as masculine. Personally, I despise stereotypical interpretations. A strong woman should not be assumed to be a lesbian. In fact, I believe that stereotypes are generally uninteresting and are a lazy man's plot device.

I remember drawing one fun scene, in which a female hand snakes its way inside Sun Boy's tunic. Dirk automatically assumes that he is feeling the touch of Nura, but is surprised to find that the hand belongs to Vi. This girl was full of surprises, and certainly wasn't beyond an interest in the guys.

Like I have said before, Vi had a history of dating men, and I saw no reason why her growth in confidence should be interpreted as a masculine trend. I'd have preferred the introduction of new bisexual or homosexual characters, rather than changing the established sexual preference of existing characters. On the other hand,the suggestion that Chemical King and Invisible Kid were gay, seemed much more likely, as I don't recall seeing prior examples of their sexual behavior. I don't recall any inconsistencies with their previous characterizations.

Maybe it's just a matter of storytelling philosophy. I think that story and character developments should be organic and not contrived.

My opinion, for what it's worth.

Steve Lightle

Jafabian wrote:
<< I must stress that I'm not taking these "deaths" personally. I fully understand that these are fictional characters and that the writers have every right to write their stories. >>

I've got to say that I'm a little concerned about the high death rate of the Legion. I am glad, on the other hand, that there haven't been a lot of deaths in recent days.

I realize that the readers understand that these are fictional characters. Still, they have to seem real while you are reading about them, and you do form attachments to these fictional characters. If that were not true, then what would bring a person back for more adventures? If the readers don't care about the characters then why are they reading the books? If they aren't "real" to them, then why shouldn't readers jump ship each time that there is a change in creative staff?

When I was a kid, first starting to read comics, I heard about the death of Ferro Lad. It seemed unimaginable to me. How could a super-hero die? This just couldn't be. I had to seek out the issue, and find out if there was any truth to all of this. In doing this, I became invested in the character, and when I eventually found the Ferro Lad issues of Adventure Comics, I came to respect and admire this guy ... and Ferro Lad's death meant something.

Now that the superhero mortality rate is so high, do these deaths mean as much to readers? Are we becoming blase? Do we care as much? Are the characters caring as much? Ferro Lad was honored and mourned.

In our speculation about what character may die next, have we forgotten to mourn those who have fallen?

Has death just become a gimmick to sell more issues? Superman died didn't he? Hal Jordan died? Robin died ... and died ... and ... You know, maybe death is losing its sting.

If so, that's a sad thing.

Steve Lightle

Exactly.
The 'death' trend ruined the X-Men for me.
And DC's 'hit lists' for giant crossovers nauseates me.

Shady

The killing of a character as 'cutting edge' story telling is getting soooo old. It is also (IMO) LAZY story writing.

In the first 25-26 years of the Legion I count only 4 Legion Deaths (5 if you count Lightning Lad but they brought him back). They were mourned. They were honored. And they were remembered for their heroics. (If I missed someone please feel free to add them)

Ferro Lad
Invisible Kid
Chemical King
Karate Kid

In the last 16-17 years after Crisis and especially during v. 4 It seemed as if they kept trying to up the death count in each issue. It got to the point they felt that blowing up the moon and the EARTH were GOOD plot devices.

Why must there be such a high body count to be considered 'trendy' or 'relevant'?
The trend to kill off characters someone doesn't want to write with the thought... "someone else can figure out how to bring them back to life" is getting old too.

If you want 'realism' in comics this is about as far from it as you can get.

The Legionnaires who passed on (with the exception of Lightning Lad) remained dead. (yes there was that clone story ... but it wrapped up in one issue). Other writers were still able to write these characters in flashback or 'untold' stories that didn't diminish their sacrifice or weaken the stories of their deaths.


Sorry for the long meandering post...but this is a topic that has bothered me for years.

------------------
Better to have a mind open as a book than closed as a fist

I did like an earlier post where it was said a character should never be brought back from the dead, unless it's proven that they never died in the first place. Therefore, I still hold hope that things will be done right and our favorite Legionaires come back.

And dammit, I want Superboy back. But Streaky, Comet and Beppo can stay home. (Notice I didn't add Krypto????)

AMEN TO THAT BROTHER! Get this, one time Chris Claremont was asked about his replacing Cyclops with Angel after the death of Phoenix storyline, and why he got rid of him after less than a year, and his reply was that the character was "functionally redundant." That all he did was fly around. Geez, compare him to Wolverine or Nightcrawler. You could say the same thing.

Steve talks about Ferro Lad. At least Ferro Lad wasn't around long enough for the reader to show attachment to him and the Sun-Eater/Fatal Five storyline was a damn fine story.

Chris didn't kill the Angel.

He just felt he didn't enjoy using Warren in stories.
Every writer has that right and they all evercise it, chosing the individual line-ups they will use in their stories.

It would have been different if he'd killed Angel because he didn't like using him in stories.

DC does it all of the time, if the posts on the boards are to be believed and some of them are.

Hippolyta and Maxima were a travesty, especially Hippolyta.

Anyway, . . .
hrumph!

Shady

The Man From Cargg said:
<< I don't think ever gracious M'onel would be very attracted to Umbra's current edgy persona. And if he was able to tame it - then she wouldn't be as interesting a character. I think Steve's suggestion of Brin and Tasmia could work. Brin has enough of an edge to match her's but has demonstrated a strong loyal and caring side ... >>

I don't know why, but I can just see them as a team. as Shady pointed out, it might not be a perfectly stable relationship, but I could certainly see it as a passionate one. Who knows if it would last. Wolves have gotten a bad rep through the years, but aren't they supposed to be fiercely loyal too?

Of course, the next few issues of Legion may tell us a lot more about the temperament of this incarnation of Timber Wolf. It should be interesting.

Steve

I don't think that Vi's progression with being more outgoing or Masculian had to do with her being a Lesbian. In fact I would call her Bisexual rather than Lesbian. I think her being attracted to Ayala was well written and didn't sterotype a certain role. So she wasn't a "lipstick" lesbian.
Chemical King and Invisible Kid "hinted" at relationship was extremely well done in the Secret Orgin issue of Chemical King. Really what was hinted at was Chemical King being "attached" or in Love with Invisible Kid and Invisible Kid was protrayed as a good friend and role model. Now Element Lad should have been totally out! I would rather see legion characters turned gay then turned into a big snake with mechanical arms.

Espike said:
<< I would rather see legion characters turned gay then turned into a big snake with mechanical arms. >>

Well, when you put it like that ... LOL!

I really hope that DnA make Brin follow the wolf in temperment and habit, as closely as possible.

I love wolves.

They're one of the most wonderful animals in the animal kingdom, I think.
But, their loyalty to their mates is one of the reasons that I'm not sure a Brin/Tasmia relationship would work.

The alpha males seek an alpha type female, true, but she has to be able to function as a team player ~ not just for duty's sake, but for real and true.

Currently, Umbra has been shown to be a loner, who only participates in a team because she has no true alternative that doesn't lead to obscurity.
Her planet wanted her in the Legion, she wants to champion her planet again, so she complies.

You drew the cover for her origin issue, Steve.
That story made it very clear that she considers herself 'the One'.
She may make room for a husband, if he's powerful enough and helps her postition on Talok (and she loves him, if she's capable of loving anyone, at this time) but she won't want a 'team' or 'pack' around.

Unless she changes, of course.
We never know.


I think I'd prefer Shikari and Brin, if I haven't said that already.
She's a throw-back warrior, who's skills are very much like Brin's (other then the tracking/pathing abilities), only without the great strength.
She comes from a warm, team environment, as well.
She's definitely alpha, too.

I think she's perfect for him.

Maybe a competition between her and Tasmia would be interesting, as long as Kari wins!
Brin might like it, anyway.

Shady

I know Chris didn't kill Angel. But I understand your point.

My point was how I believed the reason of Angel being "functionally redundant" was actually his not being inspired to write the character. Were we to believe the "functionally redundant" statement then Hawkman wouldn't fly as a book. (Oww...I really typed that?)

But I completely agree with you on what you said on Maxima and Hipployta. All comics mangement executives say at one time or another that comics needs more female characters. When they allow stories to elimimante two who have had a large impact in the DCU it only shows just how indecisive they can be.

Question for you Steve: what is the due process for a script that introduces something that would have major impact in that comics' future issues? Example, let's say you take over the writing duties of LSH. You decide to right a wrong and bring back Leviathan, even though he looked pretty dead in his final issue. Where does the script go? Does it just go to the editor then back to the writer, or do other people look at the script? What if the editor says no and wants a rewrite? Does the writer have the right to appeal to any higher ups? Does it depend on who the writer is? (I bet Paul Levitz never had that problem!)

That raises an interesting question. Are there any Legionaires who aren't "alpha"?

After all, they were almost all chosen for the Legion because they were the best acording to their planetary standards. You could say being an alpha is a requirement for membership.

In today's CBG Express e-mail to its readers was an item of interest. Listed among those with upcoming bithdays: Steve Lightle, November 19.

Happy Birthday, Steve.

One day before my 47th.
So, Steve, here's my favorite poem about our shared sign--

If you should see a Scorpio,
Then, goodness gracious, say hello!
For if his presence you ignore,
He'll soon declare a private war;
However, if you're over-nice,
You'll pay an even bigger price;
For once he says your friend he'll be,
You'll never never an enemy!

--Frank Jacobs
MAD for Better or Verse

One day before my 47th.
So, Steve, here's my favorite poem about our shared sign--

If you should see a Scorpio,
Then, goodness gracious, say hello!
For if his presence you ignore,
He'll soon declare a private war;
However, if you're over-nice,
You'll pay an even bigger price;
For once he says your friend he'll be,
You'll never never an enemy!

--Frank Jacobs
MAD for Better or Verse

Well, DavidEdward is approaching in 47th, Happy Birthday!
What year is Steve approaching?

Shady

Wow! Now this is a surprise ... Birthday wishes and poems! Cool!

One year I forgot my birthday altogether, until my wife spilled the beans on the 18th. Thanks for the reminder ... heh, heh ... She won't get me this year.

: )

Shady says:
<< What year is Steve approaching? >>

I'm close enough to David that he can see me in his rearview mirror ... just a few years and I'll catch up.

Steve

Hi Steve,

Funny that I should be catching up on a few posts this morning and I see there is birthday talk. Today happens to be my wife's birthday and for the few moments I'm not tending to her birthday needs, I'm sending out this query (non-birthday related; it's obvious you are being vague about revealing the truth of your age!)

Here's my question. Perhaps it's already been asked before, but if you had to pick just one, do you have a personal favourite legionnaire?

Hi Steve,

Funny that I should be catching up on a few posts this morning and I see there is birthday talk. Today happens to be my wife's birthday and for the few moments I'm not tending to her birthday needs, I'm sending out this query (non-birthday related; it's obvious you are being vague about revealing the truth of your age!)

Here's my question. Perhaps it's already been asked before, but if you had to pick just one, do you have a personal favourite legionnaire?

Hi Steve,

Funny that I should be catching up on a few posts this morning and I see there is birthday talk. Today happens to be my wife's birthday and for the few moments I'm not tending to her birthday needs, I'm sending out this query (non-birthday related; it's obvious you are being vague about revealing the truth of your age!)

Here's my question. Perhaps it's already been asked before, but if you had to pick just one, do you have a personal favourite legionnaire?

Woops...would you believe my finger got stuck on the return key?

There's a little debate going on in another thread. Some people are saying that they know what Quislet's physical form looks like, while others say that he is still a mystery. I think both may be right. Let me explain.

When I first suggested (insisted?) that non-humanoid Legionnaires should be introduced to the team, I was thinking of creatures that might have physiognomies that would look as if they were designed to suit the environments of their home worlds.

I tried to create them by asking myself a series of challenging questions and then doing my best to find the most logical answers.

When I originally showed my writer and editor the designs for both Quislet and Tellus, each of the characters had physical bodies. When Paul and Karen approved them as new additions to the series, neither Tellus or Quislet was an energy being. What Quislet actually was (in those early issues) was a tiny sentient creature that was incapable of surviving in Earth's atmosphere. His frail body needed constant support from the machinery built into his "ship." In fact, the ship's primary purpose was to function as a life support unit. Its secondary purpose was to provide Quislet with mobility.

What left the character vulnerable to reinterpretation was that I had insisted that Quislet's physical form should not be shown. I wanted his repulsive (and if you saw my designs, you'd agree) physical body to remain mysteriously hidden away from the eyes of both his fellow Legionnaires and the readers.

The spark of energy that was always seen leaving Quislet's ship, was actually only his life force escaping the restraints of his alien anatomy to inhabit the raw materials of Earth. It is very much the same power that the Roboticans recently exhibited when they inhabited the mechanisms of Earth.

Paul and I always planned to work on an origin issue for Quislet. Did you know that we very nearly did a Quislet one-shot special? I think that the idea was eventually nixed because some people feared that human readers couldn't sustain their interest in a nonhuman Legionnaire for an entire solo issue. Some time after I left the book, Paul came up with a different origin for Quislet than the one that I had created. I'm not sure if that is because he had changed his mind about the original concept, or because he had forgotten the details about Quislet's physical body.

So, anyway ... that's how those who think they have seen Quislet "in the buff" and those who think the Quis still has a few secrets ... well, they are both right, if you ask me.

Steve Lightle

PS: If I were given the chance to return Quislet to active status in the Legion, I'd certainly want to return him to his original concept, and redesign his ship.

Hi all....

Just wanted to share my thoughts on the original spirit of this thread that Steve Lightle started.

Although I was a die-hard LSH fanatic in 84 and 85, for some reason during the time I was in the 7th grade, I hardly ever got taken to the "comics" store like I used to!!! Whenever I bought a comic, it had to be at a "newsstand-type" outlet, which didn't carry direct books. So, for quite a few months, I was horribly behind on what was going on in the "Baxter" book.

Anyways, I think the first time I saw Sensor Girl was on a reproduction of the cover of #14 on the back page of WHO'S WHO. I remember thinking that her costume was visually quite exciting and wanted to know more about this character. Eventually in the summer of 85, I got my Dad to take me to our local comics store for the first time in ages, and I stocked up on most of the Baxter issues I had missed.......except for #14. They were out of it!!!!! But they did have #15, the Dr. Regulus story.

So you see, during my first exposure to Sensor Girl, I had no idea there was any "mystery" surrounding her identity. I thought she was a totally brand-new character to the Legion mythos. I sometimes think it would have been really cool for her to have been developed that way.......an entirely new female character. Of course, when she was revealed as Projectra, I wasn't going to complain, as I love me some Jeckie.

Oh for the record......do you know it took me FOUR more years to finally find the original copy of #14?? I had to read that story for the very FIRST time in the TALES reprint the next year in 1986!!!

I would have loved to have seen some more development of those minor characters who applied for Legion membership in that issue, too. And Steve, who WAS that red-skinned girl??? :-)

Take care all.......

Jamie

Dang, I would have loved a solo Quislet one-shot!!!!!!

Happy Birthday Steve! (or is it happy belated birthday now?)

------------------
I have passed the Massachusetts Bar Exam!

Favorite lawyer joke:
What is the difference between a catfish and a lawyer?
One is a scum-sucking bottom feeder.
The other is a fish.

Salchow30 says:
<< I would have loved to have seen some more development of those minor characters who applied for Legion membership in that issue, too. And Steve, who WAS that red-skinned girl??? >>

Apparently, here's how it went ...

After the Legion tryouts, where she made quite an impression, the Legionnaires couldn't stop talking about her. Unfortunately, they also couldn't recall what her name was. Brin said, ""I've got her number, if you want, I can give her a call." Lournu said, "I've got copies of the sign in sheets in triplicate ... old habit." But it turned out that the tiger striped applicant had forgotten to write her name. Jo mumbled, "Wasn't she the Scarlet Temptress?" The looks that he got from the female Legionnaires, especially Tinya, made him look at his feet and wonder just when his day had taken such a bad turn. They couldn't remember any one name that the applicant had given. Among the more pitiful guesses were Ruby Damsel and Kat-Thee. Just before the vote, they checked to see if Brin had any luck contacting the mystery woman. It appeared that he was desperately trying to explain something himself ... "No, no, no, I was kidding. No really, how could I forget you? You're Night Girl's friend ... uhhh ... oh yeah! The waitress from Hooters-Alpha Centauri! Yeah ... I KNOW you don't have red skin ... But you have a red blouse, right? I ... I mean, red ... yeah! That's it, earrings! See! I couldn't forget YOU! Oh, now you don't wanna ... You're name? It's ... Bres ... ta ... ta ... Tanya ... Mel ... Mel ... Melon-ie ... Melony? Hello? Aww ... Damn! Disconnected ... AGAIN!"

The moral of the story is, names can be very important to a super hero. If you want to be remembered in the competitive field of galactic super-heroing, you must have a name that people can remember. Oh, and don't forget to write legibly on the sign in sheet.

Steve

I was recently re-reading the "Legion on the Run" issues and I noticed 'FELINA ROUGE', complete with headband, featured in LEGION of SUPER HEROES #57 (may94)!!

She is shown to be a student of the UP military academy under Chuck & Luornu, and although she has a line of dialog;
" We know, Chlorophyll Kid! Let's just go already!"-
and is even shown transforming into red & black striped tigress, we never do get to find out her name!

lil'rhino

I really, REALLY like "Felina Rouge" as her name (I also could live with it in either shortened version ~ "Felina" or "Rouge")

V

Last year I did a little comic called PEKING TOM & BOBBI SOX, and it featured a cartoon feline named Catrina Fellina. No relation to Felina Rouge. : )

Check it out!
http://www.geocities.com/lunaticks2001/index.html

Lunatick Press, Peking Tom & Bobbi Sox, Catrina Fellina, and other featured characters are created by and exclusive properties of Steve Lightle, TM and copyright, 2001

: )

Great work Steve! I wish we could see you do a regular book again for DC.

Thanks, V! The more I think about it, the more I think it would make a great name for a drag queen.
"Ladies & Gentlemen, please welcome the fabulous FELINA ROUGE!!!"

lol,
lil'rhino

Steve, has Paul Levitz ever thought of writing a fill in issue for old times sake? And have you looked into doing an issue of Doom Patrol?

lil'rhino you are TOO much! Now I can't get a picture of your "Queen Felina" out of my mind. ROFLMAO!

Someone mentioned Paul doing a fill-in (which I would love dearly)......but I've always thought Paul and Keith should do an Elseworlds Story about THEIR Legion.......the one that last showed up in 89, in LSH #63. There would be no reboot, no five-year-gap........just our gang of heroes living life after the "magic war". Granted, it would not be something the new breed of Legion reader would necessarily understand or appreciate, but that's why it's Elseworlds.

I think a lot of us old-timers would relish a small-scale project of this nature....kind of like a valentine to folks who have been reading the book since the 50s, 60s, 70s (that's where I fall in the mix). One more look at the LSH we grew up with.

Maybe Keith could even "evolve" again, coming up with a style combining the sensibilities of his current look with maybe a touch of the realism and detail he used to portray.

This has just always been a little dream of mine. And LARRY MAHLSTEDT inks it!!! No exceptions!!!!!

Jamie

Lord, I miss Larry! I LOVED his work. Any idea what he's up to lately?

JaFabian,

I'd love to draw the Doom Patrol again, but unlike the Legion, I'm only interested in the original version. I am still geeked over the first appearances of the Doom Patrol in "My Greatest Adventure!" No matter how good any of what followed may have been ... THAT was the real Doom Patrol, case closed! In fact, I've even proposed a Doom Patrol graphic novel, but at the time, DC wasn't interested in reintegrating the DP into the mainstream DCU. I suppose that things have changed since then.

As for Paul Levitz doing the Legion ... I think that Paul would be bitten by the bug again if he wrote another Legion story. My guess is that Paul knows he couldn't write just one. It would be too much of a reminder of how much he loved it all.

Salchow30,

I share your enthusiasm for Larry Mahlstedt. He's a good guy and a talented inker. I haven't seen his work in comics since a Flash 80-Page Giant that we both worked on a few years ago. He was inking Butch Guice's pencils on a Flash story in that issue, while I was doing the art on an XS story. I don't think Larry has done a lot of comic work lately, but I could be wrong. Whatever he's up to, I certainly wish him the best.

Steve

Ahem.

Oh, don't mind me ... just clearing my throat.

Steve : )

Hey Steve, are you getting 'into the groove' on your LEGION issues ??
I just know you're gonna blow us away !

lil'rhino

Yeh! Where are the free-bee sneek peaks??? Show us a little leg there Steve.

I'd love to show you a preview of the Umbra issue, but Legion editor Stephen Wacker has laid down the law. He wants to keep it all under wraps for now, and he is the bossman.

Maybe we'll sneak something out to you all a little closer to print time. After all, if you get too familiar with it now, it may feel like old news by the time it's finally in print ... and we don't want that happening.

Thanks for asking though.

Steve

Back to the top for Mr. L's B-Day!

It will be incredible to see more of Steve Lightle on the Legion! I read all 12 pages and agreed with almost all of it (and had to copy some to put with my Lightle-era issues. It will be a good opportunity to read them again). I remember buying all the ToL issues over just for the Steve Lightle covers (they cut the stories inside, I remember). I remember being really impressed with "Election Day!" I practically memorized that one. Nobody said this but I think Steve's non-human Legionnaires were much more endearing and more carefully thought out than making Princess Projectra a snake. Projectra was so, you know, and it was really a kick in the, you know, to make her a big snake. I like the Jim Shooter appearance much better. Lightle & Levitz really created non-human looking characters we could like. I think there were a lot of readers asking for some non-Earth/human characters over the years. Quislet was great. There was one called "Quislet's Story" I think. That was an amazing one. I hope you, Steve, become a regular Legion artist. You could start a companion comic to the current title if you need to! Wasn't Dan Jurgens doing the Legion at the same time as you? Two comics featuring the Legion was going to be the norm, I thought. I think you could probably find some other ex-Legionnaires to re-join (some of them I've seen on this message board). I'm sure we would be willing to send you scripts free if you need them. I think you should talk to some of the ^i^s at DC about putting Superboy & Supergirl back in the Legion which I mentioned on another page somewhere. Or, if not, they need to find a place for Captain Marvel Jr & Mary Marvel. They would be adequate substitutions for the Supercousins. BTW, the current Supergirl already is a Legionnaire - genetically speaking. I believe she is made from the DNA of the pre-Crisis/reboot/Zero Hour/whatever Lana Lang of the silver age. I think this was established in a Byrne Superman story (no less!)? So, as Kinda Lana, she is an honorary member and has been an active Legionnaire in her Insect Queen form (not too far removed from one of her current popwers). Of course, neither the Legion nor Supergirl knows any of this, but maybe Brainiac 5 could figure it out in a routine visit to the clone bank (Superboy #206 got better with age, didn't it?). How about it, Steve? Yes, please keep the pairings as you listed them! Brainiac 5 and Supergirl, especially! You could start with Brainiac 5 checking the LSH DNA bank and being somehow drawn to a strange one, "Supergirl," and finding something not quite right with it......I like what you said about the relationships being "organic and not contrived." Exactly

I would love to see linda in the 30th centry for a while one of my fav stories was in one of the supergirl annuals where her and brainy become trapped in his force feild and there was a definet tension between them so this would be good to explore. Also for a while I beleive DC were considering the kingdom come story as the offical dc future. In this the legion were only in the back ground of one panel with both superboy and supergirl as members but one of the next generation heros looked like supergirl had similar powers and green skin so it was fairly obvious what somebody had in mind there.

Wasn't it great that Brainiac 5 with his green skin, slighter build, & strong mind got Supergirl? The past relationships should be kept, as Mr. Lightle suggested. There are a lot of characters to play around with regarding relationships... do something NEW with some of them instead of messing around with an established pairing like Imra-Garth. The Legion writers of the past, like Shooter & Levitz, didn't need to change the basic Imra-Garth pairing to write good stories. They built on what was there! There are so many stories and directions... for writers with imaginations!

Garth and Imra may have been paired, pre-boot, but I don't think that their relationship was a very healthy or good one.

I don't think that the original pairings have to be kept.

I'd prefer Tasmia with Lar, maybe, because of the way that their relationship ended during Zero Hour, it would just make Karma'c sense for them to seek each other out, again.
Tinya and Jo certainly are together and should stay that way.

The rest are up for grabs, I think, since these are not the same people and none of the other preboot relationships were that good or close.
Even Rokk became the Time Trapper and mostly abandoned Lydda.
Laurel/Supergirl ended up with Rond, not Brainy.
Vi and Ayla didn't have a relationship until after Imsk's war with Braal and Vi was discharged, so it was very short termed.

There's just too many new characters and interests, going now, to force the characters to follow old patterns, I think.

Shady

I agree with you on Tinya & Jo. I think Jo & Phase worked for me to... I think that keeps in with Steve Lightle's belief that there be some "organic" foundation to the realtionships. I think of Laurel & Supergirl as two separate characters and agree with your pairings of Rond & Laurel & Brainy & Supergirl. Sounds pretty organic. I think I'd go along with many of the diversions you noted. Still, I do think a Lightning Lad/Live Wire/Garth/Proty III/whatever should be brought back and that's the pairing for Saturn Girl. Hope the relationship remains imperfect, too! (aren't they all?)

that was "Jo & Phase worked fro me toO"
oooch

Wes, darling, please try paragraphs when typing long posts!
My big baby blues are crossed and I haven't even started on the liter of Stoli in my freezer!!;)

you're right, they do look awful!

i'm still new at this comptuer & internet stuff

the "tab" key doesn't look like it works, but i can still space

i'll figure it out eventually!

you're right, they do look awful!

i'm still new at this comptuer & internet stuff

the "tab" key doesn't look like it works, but i can still space

i'll figure it out eventually!

The TAB key doesn't work because theres no "tab" coding in HTML.

Generally on the Internet, paragraphs are broken up by placing a line between them.

------------------
Formerly Someone else

SAVE FARSCAPE PETITION
Also see - Save Farscape MB , Farscape World , Scaper.com , <a href="http://www.savefarscape.net/" target="_blanl">SaveFarscape.net</a>, Save Farscape Central , SaveFarscape.com

"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends..." Gandalf the Grey, Lord of the Rings Book I, Chapter 2

"A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky, stupid animals and you know it" K, MIB

The Cat: "We don't run, we strike! It's the last thing they'll be expecting"

Rimmer: "No, the last thing they'll be expecting is for us to turn into ice-skating mongooses and dance the Bolero." - Red Dwarf VI

The Hunger site , The Rainforests site , Guardian .
24 000 people die every day from hunger alone. Read, and Think a little.

Steve, are you involved in the plot development at all on the issues you're working on?

Editor Man to the Rescuuuuuueeeeee!

DavidEM -

Thank

You

- WesC

The quickest summary of the Supegirl series I can manage:

Matrix (the kinda-Lana-Sg) you mentioned above merged with a dying-not-very-nice girl called Linda Danvers. She redeemed Danvers, they found out that merged they were an angel, then in saving the world they got seperated. Linda went to find Matrix, and found her but didn't remerge with her, and Matrix instead merged with another character called Twilight. Linda has now met Kara Zor-El, who has just crashed to Earth, and agreed to become her "big sister."

*whew*

You work out how that helps/hurts your case.

------------------
Formerly Someone else

SAVE FARSCAPE PETITION
Also see - Save Farscape MB , Farscape World , Scaper.com , <a href="http://www.savefarscape.net/" target="_blanl">SaveFarscape.net</a>, Save Farscape Central , SaveFarscape.com

"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends..." Gandalf the Grey, Lord of the Rings Book I, Chapter 2

"A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky, stupid animals and you know it" K, MIB

The Cat: "We don't run, we strike! It's the last thing they'll be expecting"

Rimmer: "No, the last thing they'll be expecting is for us to turn into ice-skating mongooses and dance the Bolero." - Red Dwarf VI

The Hunger site , The Rainforests site , Guardian .
24 000 people die every day from hunger alone. Read, and Think a little.

Ok, "somebody," I followed those storylines and have the recent reading/swipe of "The Supergirl From Krypton" in my mind. That's the latest issue I read, but there may be another one out... I admit that I don't read Supergirl as often or as closely as other comics.

I liked the idea of the Linda/Supergirl merger when it happened. I don't recall where Linda came from, though. I don't recall her origin & if she was a "Supergirl." Was she part of Matrix? - like a "soul-mate" waiting to merge? Was she a non-powered woman? Then, where'd her powers come from? Not Matrix, if they completely unmerged. I don't remember.

I remember the Comet & Angel stuff, which lost my interest. The Angel stuff didn't work for me.

I missed the fact (if you are indeed correct) that the two were completely unmixed. I may have missed or skimmed that issue. Then we're left with Linda... and there are now at least two (maybe three) completely different Supergirls in the regular DC Universe. Then, they must have separate origins & powers. I guess we'll have to wait and see how that plays out.

If the three Supergirls are all completely different and have different origins of their "Super-powers," then - the "Matrix" Supergirl would be the only one with the DNA of Legionnaire Lana Lang. That would be the Lana Lang of the "Pocket Universe" which was home to Superboy/Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes. The Lana/Matrix Supergirl is my favorite because she's the last link to the "Silver Age." So, DC'll probably get rid of her!

They were seperated in 50, and 51-74 were all about Linda trying to find Matrix (and as I said, they didn't remerge in the end).

There must be a little of Matrix left in Linda though, "wesconnorsehny," since Linda still has Matrix's TK powers.

wesconnorsehny said:
<< It will be incredible to see more of Steve Lightle on the Legion! >>

Thanks, Wes. I certainly appreciate your enthusiasm. It's been great seeing the reactions of Legion readers, both current and past. My hope is that I can help build a bridge between differing factions of Legion readers. One of the most exciting things has been seeing the number of long time LSH fans who have expressed a willingness to give the Legion another chance. The other thing that excites me about this return to the Legion, is the chance to introduce my work to readers that may not be familiar with it.

<< I remember buying all the (Tales of the Legion) issues over just for the Steve Lightle covers ... I remember being really impressed with "Election Day!" I practically memorized that one. Nobody said this but I think Steve's non-human Legionnaires were much more endearing and more carefully thought out than making Princess Projectra a snake. >>

Ahhh ... "Election Day" ... wasn't that the story where I tried to introduce a brown skinned Khund? Although the idea of showing different ethnicities amongst the previously all Caucasian Khunds did catch on, I don't think they ever showed another brown Khund. What happened? Does anyone know?

<< I hope you, Steve, become a regular Legion artist. You could start a companion comic to the current title if you need to! >>

I'm not sure that there is a chance of a companion title to the Legion at the moment. In fact, I don't think I'd endorse the idea of one ... at this time. There have been many Legion spin-offs in the last dozen or so years, and I'm not convinced that spreading the Legion around really helped bolster the sales of the overall Legion franchise. Of course, I'm not saying that individual stories, or even series', weren't enjoyable on their own merits. I'm just wondering if the core Legion readership is in a position to support multiple titles right now. From a publishing standpoint, I'd want to strengthen the readership numbers on the main title, before offering a companion series.
As an aside, did I ever mention that I was originally offered the Valor book, when it was in its early preproduction phase? It was tempting, because I'd always believed that Mon-El had an incredible untapped potential as a dramatic character. He still does.

<< Wasn't Dan Jurgens doing the Legion at the same time as you? Two comics featuring the Legion was going to be the norm, I thought. I think you could probably find some other ex-Legionnaires to rejoin ... >>

Dan Jurgens and Terry Shoemaker both did issues of Tales during the time that I was drawing Legion of Super-Heroes. I think both artists made impressive contributions to the Legion. Of course, this was at the beginning of DC's hardcover/softcover experiment. The idea was always to discontinue the new material in Tales, replacing it with reprints of what had appeared in the LSH book in the previous year. Ultimately, I think that the experiment hurt the Legion's sales, but certainly through no fault of the stories themselves. The experiment divided Legion sales between two books, and it also confused a good number of regular readers, for a variety of reasons.

Another thing to take into consideration is that, at the time of the hardcover/softcover experiment, Legion sales were very high. Dividing attention between several ongoing Legion titles, at the current time, would almost certainly undermine the growth in sales that Legion is experiencing.

Okay ... I admit, this is my practical side speaking ... another part of me would very much like to expand on the rich potential of the Legion universe. That side of me says things like, "How could MORE Legion be a bad thing? More Legion! MORE LEGION!!!" Ahem, I try to keep that side under control because ... well, you know ... He's noisy. : )

Steve Lightle

Steve Lightle - well, it's a BIG deal to read these responses on these boards. To a lot of readers, you artists and writers are big deals/big stars. We read your names over and over & you all (well, some of you!) made an BIG impression...

I just pulled out that "Election Day!" issue - it's LSH #10 (5/85). Funny that Jerry Ordway did the "Tales of LSH" reprint cover... So many of your reprint covers were as good as the originals.

Your cover of Legion Of Super-Heroes #10 (5/85) is just great. The cover is full of clutter - but doesn't look cluttered. So many covers throw in everything with no sense of balance - how to present the stuff on the cover. There is a balance of the objects & colors on LSH #10's cover. There is a 3d effect. Look how the colors and shapes compliment each other. How Wildfire's blast matches the skull-effect eye. The poster, the sky. The "see-thru" DC logo. "Vote" in interlac... a lot going on, but with an order. The hooded red and black lines on the top - much better than if it was just black, on this cover. And your LSH #12 was a good use of a more dark top - making Superboy so striking as he flew off the page. There is a lot of action on #10, too. The poster is "shot." Wildfire is attacking something off-cover. And check out Sun Boy - where is he going?-- you want to know. You might not notice him as he blends & balances Wildfire's blast. Look at Invisible Kid's face for a second. Look at the expression. Mysterious, subtle, hard to figure out! Is he sad? Determined? Pensive? I haven't even finished discussing the cover!

Yes, Steve, there were a lot of different skin shades in this issue, including the Khund on the first pages. I don't remember if it was continued after you left, but the general LSH title is something I've always found diverse. I assumed Shadow Lass was "comic book black" and accepted Brainiac 5 as a different race. Eventually, the characters looked different, too. So, you have white-like features on darker skinned and more ethnic looking light skinned characters. The characters in LSH #10 are many different groups and mixtures. You & Paul mustive known you were doing. The effect is not accidental (but doesn't seem token or overdone, just normal) It was a good message & well done. The cover alone (more in the book) really favors asian and black characters. Sun Boy would be the "whitest," but he's pretty small. Also, inside, you did the regular Legionnaires so well. I never thought of all the different shades of people in this issue as anything but normal.

The older characters were also true to their past, but done soooo well. Look at page 18 -- Phantom Girl & Violet. You can see the differences in their facial expressions & characters. But look even more closely at those faces and you can see the Swan Legionnaires IN THEIR FACES. Did you look at old drawings and "age" them? It's not even swiping - it's masterful to capture those younger looking faces in the more mature Legion. Even Sensi on page 9 looked like the same dude from a decade earlier. He was older, but the eyes looked the same. I felt I KNEW him. Is this just me?

Another nice touch - Page 8 - a shadow, but it could be a tear. Now there were easy pages & panels in this issue, for sure, but even they were very nicely done.

I agree with you about doing one Legion big selling comic before trying more. With all due respect to the current Legionnaires, I don't think putting the Legion back into the big seller camp is all that difficult. But, there are possibly restrictions to creative directions.

I didn't know that about Valor. There is a lot that they did with that character. I think that there was even more they could've done, but, oh well! You returned to do LSH art on a story featuring Mon ("Back Home In Hell" might be it) That was another really good one. It was after #10, look for it Legionnaires! All you Legionnaires should check out these old stories. Ah, I guess y'all have them?

So many good artists rose to the occasion when working on a difficult series. Here on this board are Lightle & Cockrum. I remember their Legion work above the rest of their work, but I don't know why... was it better? More difficult and, so, then, better...

It was Super-nice to receive a reply from you, Steve. I'll be looking for your name! -- Wes

JaFabian wrote:
<< Steve, are you involved in the plot development at all on the issues you're working on? >>

No input on the plotting so far. In fact, this is how my current Legion work differs most from my previous contributions to the series. The Umbra issue arrived in "full script" ... the old DC style. I've tried to make my presense known in the storytelling, in spite of the restrictions of working this way.

Still, I enjoy challenges, and so I approached that issue as a challenge, it being one of the few times that I hadn't worked in the "Marvel style."

Having said that about the plotting, I will say that I've been offered other creative input ... but I should leave all that a mystery for the time being.

Steve

wesconnorsehny wrote:
<< I just pulled out that "Election Day!" issue - it's LSH #10 (5/85). Funny that Jerry Ordway did the "Tales of LSH" reprint cover... So many of your reprint covers were as good as the originals. >>

Even funnier if you consider the fact that I did the cover sketch that Jerry drew that "Tales" cover from. I knew Jerry from before his big break in professional comics, so it was a special kick for me whenever we could work off of each other. Jerry also inked a couple of covers of mine for Bill Black's Americomics. Now THAT'S really going back!

Thanks for writing such a detailed letter. I appreciate your taking the time to drop me a line, although I might have to address some of your comments in another post ... I need to get started on the inks for the Umbra issue.

I'll be checking in again real soon!

Steve

Hey Steve, one question about Quislet.

IIRC, you said earlier on the thread that Levitz came up with the name, but why that name? Was it meant to invoke the notion of a Quisling (as someone suggested in one of the v3 letter columns), or is there another explanation?

Eryk Davis Ester asks:
<< ...you said earlier on the thread that Levitz came up with the name, but why that name? Was it meant to invoke the notion of a Quisling (as someone suggested in one of the v3 letter columns), or is there another explanation? >>

When Paul first saw the character that I was proposing, I think that he thought that the flash of energy exiting the vessel was meant to be the character's physical form. That's probably why he first suggested Starworm as the character's name. When he later suggested Quislet, I was a little concerned that he meant for the character to become a "quisling," but he assured me that it wasn't necessarily so. He said that it might be an interesting "red herring" for readers who made that connection, though. When I explained that my intention was for the character's physical form to remain a mystery to both the Legion and the readers, it seemed to spark his imagination. I think that was the root inspiration for the name Quislet.

The word that might best have been associated with Quislet is "quiz," or maybe "question," as his true form was intended as a point of speculation and curiosity.

Steve Lightle

Just out of curiousity Steve, which is your least favouite character design, looking back, that you've come up with/had to work with?

[300]

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"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends..." Gandalf the Grey, Lord of the Rings Book I, Chapter 2

"A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky, stupid animals and you know it" K, MIB

The Cat: "We don't run, we strike! It's the last thing they'll be expecting"

Rimmer: "No, the last thing they'll be expecting is for us to turn into ice-skating mongooses and dance the Bolero." - Red Dwarf VI

The Hunger site , The Rainforests site , Guardian .
24 000 people die every day from hunger alone. Read, and Think a little.

Thanks for clarifying that! Another question that pops up from time to time. There was a villain in LSH-LSV war called Terrus, who had never appeared before that issue. Can you give us any info on this guy? This was his only appearance, and he seems to play an incredibly small role in the story (unlike Zymyr, who I believe is the other LSVer created specifically for this story). Were there further plans for him? It seems odd that this one guy was created just to fill out the ranks of the LSV just a bit, but nothing was ever done with him.

Legion artist Jeff Moy just congratulated me on my return to the book. Unfortunately, when I asked him to confirm the rumor that he too was scheduled to do another issue of the Legion, he said that he hadn't heard anything like that.

Jeff seems to be happy and busy in a new game designing job.

My apologies for getting the hopes up for Moy fans, by reporting the rumor that he and Dan Jurgens were both scheduled to return to the Legion. The info seemed credible at the time, but I really should have confirmed it by talking to the artists directly.

Jeff tells me that he's still working on a comic project of his own creation, called Video Game Girls. Watch for it.

Steve

dude, Jeff Moy should stay away!! I know this sounds mean, but he draws the teen girls of the Legion like skanky pin up girls from T & A magazines. The Game girl project sounds right up his alley. I talked to him at the San Diego Con one year and looked at his art...I was embarrassed to have little kids looking at it. He was scary gross when he talked about his drawings of girls.

Jeff Moy -- just in case you read these -- a comic shop guy who knew how much I liked you and the Legion brought a B+W Legionnaires poster-sized drawing (by you) to the San Diago con.

You signed it, to me, and I got it. It was when you were on the Legion. I was surprised (I didn't ask him to do it).

I don't remember your art as "skanky." Your art and the poster were very nice! Thank You. Now if only I can find Tom M to color it...

WesConnors

Eryk Davis Ester
asks:
<< There was a villain in LSH-LSV war called Terrus, who had never appeared before that issue. Can you give us any info on this guy? This was his only appearance, and he seems to play an incredibly small role in the story (unlike Zymyr, who I believe is the other LSVer created specifically for this story). Were there further plans for him? >>

The honest answer is, I really don't know. At the time, and this is going back almost twenty years, I asked the same questions. I don't recall either Paul Levitz or Keith Giffen having much of an answer. Maybe he had super landscaping abilities that he used for evil?
SL

Somebody
asked:
<< Steve, which is your least favorite character design, looking back, that you've come up with/had to work with? >>

I hated Polar Boy's fur gloves and fur lined headgear, and later, I hated Giffen's ice spike hair for the same character.

Polar Boy represented the most selfless aspects of the super-hero. He, and the other substitute heroes, were willing to put their lives on the line for mankind, even without the prestige of Legion membership. They were especially admirable in light of the shoddy representation they got in DC Comics Presents and the Legion of Substitute Heroes Special. I'm not saying that those issues weren't amusing examples of slapstick comedy in comic form ... but the cost to the characters was too great. At the time I remember thinking that this style of comedy violated the readers suspension of disbelief for the sake of a laugh. It was similar to the nonsensical and unbelievable humor that crept into the Salkind's Superman movie sequels. If you erode respect for a fictional world's "reality"you can expect your audience to begin to question the entirety of it. Ultimately, it reduces your imaginary world to a two dimensional one.

I tried on two separate occasions to redesign Polar Boy's costume. I felt that he had the power and the strength of character to be a Legionnaire. I certainly didn't want the poor fellow being held back by a crummy fashion sense. I sort of like the costume that he wore in LSH #14 (his induction into the Legion), although I wonder if it might have looked better if the purple areas were cooler ... maybe a paler bluer shade ... or maybe even a darker shade, but definitely more on the blue end of the spectrum.

There are lots of costumes that I'd have wanted to fine tune if I had stayed on the book longer. I was always wanting to change Phantom Girl's look, but didn't get the chance. Invisible Kid and Colossal Boy both had embarrassingly simple costumes. I was finally allowed to return Colossal Boy to the costume that Cockrum had designed, which took care of his problem ... but poor Invisible Kid ... One of the problems that I faced was that concurrent stories were being done in Tales of the Legion during most of my tenure on the Legion. So they discouraged me from making any design changes in that first year, for fear that it might cause continuity problems between the two books.

I occasionally see a costume that I've created and wish that I could tweak the design a bit. As for my worst costume designs ... I'm pretty sure I've blocked them from my memory. : )

Steve Lightle


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I LOVED your take on Violet,Mr. Lightle.Thanks for sharing your talents with us.

Steve, what do you think are the chances of Polar Boy joining up with the Legion?

Steve, what do you think are the chances of Polar Boy joining up with the Legion?

Thank you very much, Oracle. Sometimes it isn't so much about costume designs as it is about attitude, and Violet's was very interesting. If anything inspired my interpritation of the character, it was her spirit.

Craig, I'm not sure if Polar Boy will be rejoining the Legion any time soon, but I think the odds of him eventually being restored to some version of the Legion is good. You just can't keep a good character down. Just as I think that eventually Dawnstar will be brought back. I love her name, and her potential has never been fully explored. I keep thinking that she has the potential to be one of the great women characters ... a strong and beautiful image of ethnic womanhood.

Oops! My apologies to both JaFabian and OmniCraig for getting their names confused. I'll try to see that it doesn't happen again. : )

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!

Steve

I always had trouble with Polar Boy becoming Legion leader. He was small and his power was considered ordinary. He was rejected.

Then, he formed a Legion of "rejects." They worshiped the more perfect Legion and sought no personal reward or glory for their work. Thus, they defined heroic. How the groups interacted was human and they teach us how to act.

When the subs all joined the Legion, we lost a major part of Polar Boy et al's characterization.

The first Legionnaires of color were green, orange, blue -- Though they looked human, I think the ethnic diversity was still there. At the time, no comic characters really were colored like humans.

Later Tyroc, Dawnstar were kinda thrown in as token ethnic characters, when comics became more realistic. Now that they are history, I miss them. Tyroc was not done well. Dawnstar was.

Dawnstar had a unique personality/character. I enjoyed her love for Wildfire... Remember, he didn't have a body. Their relationship was very nice to follow because physical sex was not going to be a priority.

The return of these concepts/stories would be welcomed!

Steve,

Don't worry about using my name in error. It's always a bit of a fanboyish thrill to see one of your comic "heroes" calling you by name!! :):):)Happy holidays!!!

I am assuming you mean Jacques and not Lyle. Although Lyle had a pretty boring costume too. I like Jacques even though it was a simple costume because of how it was shown to work with his powers.

Another Legionnaire who had/has a boring costume is Chameleon Boy

I liked Polar boys spikey hair...or Icicle hair if you will. I also loved the Subs in the DC Present issues with Ambush Bug. Hilarious...and to point out, any hero's that should appear with the Ambush Bug would have been treated in the same humorous vain. It what made the story and what was intended. The stories there after touched on the humorous aspect of the Subs...especially considering how many times they were shown in the long run of the series always waiting around for "the Call to arms." Plus they WERE all rejected from the Legion, so making them humorous seemed natural. Yet I do have to admit, when the Legion came back after the 5 year gap and the Subs showed up, seasoned and organized. Working for or with Jaques...it was like "wow, check out the Subs." Then again through out the beginning of Griffens launch the build up to all the old favorites were great. Everytime someone else showed up we were like "wow, check them out..is that...cool take on the character". oh I miss those days..)<:

I liked Polar boys spikey hair too -- way before his time... a real trend setter...

I didn't like the Subs as comic relief. I thought those comics were silly & were more "laugh at them" than "with them." Ambush Bug was good on his own, however.

The Subs would come in and "save the day" when the Legion was failing to save the universe. At least that's the way I remember them as being used, like a reserve group. When they proved themselves, they decided not to join the Legion.

Later, they began to join & it was "established" somewhere that they all would join the group. I think that they all had joined by the 5 year gap. I didn't like the 5 year gap Legion. The "comic" Subs or the 5 year gap -- didn't like either.

I'm another one who didn't like the Subs Special or DCCP. It's all very well to use established characters in "comedy" stories - but Giffen's comedy comics (these, AMbuish Bug and his JLI) aren't funny. At all! They're just not.

I liked the Giffen Subs stories, but I was always able to sort of think of them as outside continuity or just funny little stories meant to entertain, and I don't think they diminished my appreciation of the characters. I was really happy when Polar Boy joined the Legion because I thought he was an interesting character with a lot of potential, and always wished we'd seen more of him.

I thought his icicle hair was kind of interesting and cool, too.

Am I the only fan who realizes Cham is NAKED and what we consider his "costume" is just his malleable epidermis?

By the way, Steve, there's a post in the GoogleFight! thread you might be interested in, pertaining to total hits for your name versus Dave Cockrum's.

Googlefight? What's a googlefight?

We don't have to wrestle in mud or chocolate syrup, do we? I don't know about Dave, but I've decided not to do that anymore. : )

Steve

Polar Boy having "cool" hair. Heheheheh...

I'm sorry. I just thought that was funny.

I had a <chuckle> over the alternate spelling of Giffen. Keith would probably like the literary reference!

"Cool up with that hair, Polar Boy!"

Yeah, I noticed that after I wrote it but before I hit the "submit reply" button, and thought about changing it, but then decided I would just go with it. Maybe PB has developed a bit of telepathy and beamed that choice of words into my head without my knowing it. ;-)

Steve, did you hear about the comments Quesada made about Dave on his website? There's quite a thread going on about this!

Dave Cockrum is a good artist who has served this industry incredibly well. Both Marvel and DC Comics owe him a great debt for his innovative work on Legion & X-Men.

But, saying that, I've only stated what every knowledgeable comic fan already knows.

As a comic fan and artist, all I can really say to Mr. Cockrum is a sincere ... thanks.

Steve Lightle

Steve,

When you and Paul created the Sensor Girl mystery, (a great concept!) did you both know from the beginning who her identity would be, or did it develope over time?

jafabian, I realize this thread has grown a lot since then, but the Sensor Girl story is how Steve started this thread.
Check out page 1 .

BTW, I write this with neither sarcasm nor ill will. I know how easy it is to seem like a jerk on these boards.;)

That's cool. It was really a cheap way to do bump anyhow.

Random Steve question (unless someone else knows):

Did you design Comet Queen? (or any of the other characters featured in that Legion recruitment issue guest starring Dev-Em)

------------------
"GL : Animated" and others
Hal Jordan - Green Lantern (artwork)

Hey you -- Go read "The Legion" (starring WILDFIRE!)
--- Some Legion art

Comet Queen predates Steve's tenure on the Legion. I take it she's a Giffen design. If you check out some of the early pages of this thread, you'll see discussion of some of the characters that Steve did create from the issue in question, though!

I'm pretty sure that Laurel Kent predates Giffen too, although I think he first gave her that red poncho for a costume. Did James Sherman first draw this character? I'm not absolutely certain.

Steve

So Steve,

How's the Umbra issue coming? Still no previews? Do you get to draw other Legionnaires in the story, or is it completely an Umbra solo?

<< Random Steve question (unless someone else knows):
Did you design Comet Queen? (or any of the other characters featured in that Legion recruitment issue guest starring Dev-Em)>>

I vaguely recall Giffen telling me that he got the Comet Queen design from a fan submission, but I may be wrong. as for the other recruits, although I don't have the issue in front of me, I'm pretty certain that I designed all of them ... except Polar Boy, Power Boy and Comet Queen. I certainly designed all the characters who made their first appearance in that issue (Tiger Girl, Energy Boy, Quislet, Mentalla, etc.). Of course everyone knows that I also designed Tellus, even though he had a one panel appearance prior to this issue.

Steve

I think Laurel Kent was by Jim Shooter & Mike Grell.

"Future Shock For Superboy!"

She was shockingly underdressed.

What was she wearing in her early appearances though? The red poncho or that bizarre fig leaf bikini thing?

And it's a bit cheeky of Giffen to have used a fan design for Comet Queen and not given them any credit! If CQ was based on a fan design though wouldn't we know about it? Legion fandom though slightly rabid isn't that enormous is it? I mean the older fans know what fans designed the costumes for Night Girl, Light Lass, Saturn Girl etc don't they?

Here's a better question: how much say does the penciller have in who the inker and/or colorist is? I would think they should have a big say since they'll be going over the pencillers work.

Like heck! Think about it, she's been invulnerable all her life and thus never felt heat or cold in an way that gave her discomfort. And she lives in a poly-species culture where many of the races either go nude or couldn't care less about human nuidty.

So... the black g-string is mostly a token to traditional feminine garb. The red poncho shows her pride in her lineage and also acts as a modest garment when dealing with other humans.

------------------
From BUFFY:
Vampire: C’mon, isn’t this insane? I was afraid to talk to you in high school and now we’re like mortal enemies! Hey, wouldn’t it be cool if we became nemeses?
Buffy: Is that how you say the word?
Vampire: We’re going to have to fight to the death, aren’t we?
Buffy: It’s a time honored custom.
Vampire: Wow. Reality just shows up sometimes, doesn’t it?

BUMP

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SAVE FARSCAPE. Sign the Petition NOW

Personally, I had no problem with how Lauren was dressed!

I thought Laurel looked fine shockingly underdressed in "Future Shock For Superboy." That was the shock, for me, seeing so much of her. I could hardly pay attention to the story! I had to read it several times, actually, to really get the "shock" (that she was a descendant of Superboy & Lois Lane). I was much more shocked at her attire.

She still looks the best in that unforgettable first appearance -- "Future Shock For Superboy."

...check out Laurel's attire in SUPERBOY #217...

 ***** Superboy 6/76 (3- C) .30
#217 starring The LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES (Grell) B-2794
CS 1. "The Charge Of The Doomed Legionnaires" B 2700
(Shooter/Grell) --11p
2. "Future Shock For Superboy" B-2743(Shooter/Grell) --6p
super talk --1p B-2795
M-223 Khunds app. 1st Laurel Kent. 1st bar coded issue. LoC has circulation figures. L-152 MB

Get back to the top!

BUMP!

wouldn't damph! be more appropiate!

damph

------------------
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"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends..." Gandalf the Grey, Lord of the Rings Book I, Chapter 2

"A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky, stupid animals and you know it" K, MIB

The Cat: "We don't run, we strike! It's the last thing they'll be expecting"

Rimmer: "No, the last thing they'll be expecting is for us to turn into ice-skating mongooses and dance the Bolero." - Red Dwarf VI

The Hunger site , The Rainforests site , Guardian .
24 000 people die every day from hunger alone. Read, and Think a little.

If they don't keep Steve on Legion I'd love to see him to an Atom book.

The long and BUMPy road...

------------------
"Now there are moments in life in which we are allowed to be paranoid, and this was one of them. All we had done was to try and find the home of the President of America, and now here we were, caught up in the middle of a tornado!

I think I'm entitled to ask: exactly how powerful are the FBI?"

Dave Gorman, Are YOU Dave Gorman?

My favorite dance from the 1970's?

The BUMP!

Oops! Pardon me. I didn't mean to BUMP into you.

What I'd like to know is if Steve were doing some sort of regular creative work with the Legion, would he work with DnA to populate the new Legion World?

Does he have any ideas for new Legionnaires?
Not just reboots of Tellus or Quislet, although I wouldn't mind that happening, but does he have any new worlds, and/or characters, for us to get to know.

Have you presented any ideas to DnA, Steve?
I know it's hard to share here, because someone might steal your ideas or something, but I'm still curious as to what you might creat now, in the new millenium.
What 'look' should the current Legion have?

Shady

Steve?

Are you out there?
I hope all is well. Looking forward to you're upcoming issues.

Bamf!

damph

Shadowplay In Candlelight asks:
<< What I'd like to know is if Steve were doing some sort of regular creative work with the Legion, would he work with DnA to populate the new Legion World? >>

The answer would most certainly be yes. My next issue of Legion will not be written by DnA, but having worked from their script on the Umbra issue I can enthusiastically say that I'd enjoy working with them on another. of course, I'm a bit keen on this new Keith Champagn script, at the moment.

<< Does (Steve) have any ideas for new Legionnaires?
Not just reboots of Tellus or Quislet, although I wouldn't mind that happening, but does he have any new worlds, and/or characters, for us to get to know. >>

It's always been my way to contribute as much as possible, whether I'm working with Paul Levitz, Anne Nocenti, Roy Thomas ... whomever. Even though the Umbra story ("After Dark") was presented to me in "full script" form, I was able to find ways to contribute a few creative elements.

<< Have you presented any ideas to DnA, Steve? >>

Not directly. My contact has been through my editor.

<< I know it's hard to share here, because someone might steal your ideas or something, but I'm still curious as to what you might creat now, in the new millenium. >>

You might just have to wait until Legion #24 to see an example.

<< What 'look' should the current Legion have? >>

Well, Shady, I've always favoured individuality over uniformity. I like costumes that say something about the style and personality of the wearer.

In a way, the Legion of Super-Heroes has always benifitted from having a great many creative people contributing to it. Twenty years ago you might see costumes from several different Legion eras side by side. The looks of each individual were unique as a result ... it added to their individuality.

Things are slowly coming back around to that now, with designs by Moy, Sprouse, Coipel, and even ...

: )

Shadowplay In Candlelight asks:
<< What I'd like to know is if Steve were doing some sort of regular creative work with the Legion, would he work with DnA to populate the new Legion World? >>

The answer would most certainly be yes. My next issue of Legion will not be written by DnA, but having worked from their script on the Umbra issue I can enthusiastically say that I'd enjoy working with them on another. of course, I'm a bit keen on this new Keith Champagn script, at the moment.

<< Does (Steve) have any ideas for new Legionnaires?
Not just reboots of Tellus or Quislet, although I wouldn't mind that happening, but does he have any new worlds, and/or characters, for us to get to know. >>

It's always been my way to contribute as much as possible, whether I'm working with Paul Levitz, Anne Nocenti, Roy Thomas ... whomever. Even though the Umbra story ("After Dark") was presented to me in "full script" form, I was able to find ways to contribute a few creative elements.

<< Have you presented any ideas to DnA, Steve? >>

Not directly. My contact has been through my editor.

<< I know it's hard to share here, because someone might steal your ideas or something, but I'm still curious as to what you might creat now, in the new millenium. >>

You might just have to wait until Legion #24 to see an example.

<< What 'look' should the current Legion have? >>

Well, Shady, I've always favoured individuality over uniformity. I like costumes that say something about the style and personality of the wearer.

In a way, the Legion of Super-Heroes has always benifitted from having a great many creative people contributing to it. Twenty years ago you might see costumes from several different Legion eras side by side. The looks of each individual were unique as a result ... it added to their individuality.

Things are slowly coming back around to that now, with designs by Moy, Sprouse, Coipel, and even ...

: )

Thanks for taking the time to answer!

I know that you've always added wonderful elements to any story that you've illustrated and I can hardly wait until #24 comes out.
I expect there will be a number of gems for us to find.


I like indiviuality, too.
But I've also liked the last years where the costumes were individualized within set parameters, like an inner panel, 'nehru' collars and utility belts.

Those really aren't very much of a constraint and it was fun seeing what kind of individuality could be reached within a more unified team setting.

I think, as the Legionnaires become more adult and the team looses more of it's UP 'only' focus, that more individualized costumes will, or should, naturally come about.

Val's on the cover of the Dream story, and Nura's from slightly earlier, are interesting and very dynamic examples, I think.

I can hardly wait to see what you've done with Umbra!

Shady

LIVE! LIVE!

This topic is from the original DCMBs. It was the thread that I wanted to ressurect when I first set up this message board 2 years ago. I finally took the time and effort to bring it here.

Hopefully, this will answer many of the questions that get brought up here from time to time.

Yay! I can't wait to re-read the thread!

*Sigh*! The good ol' days...

This is cool, Nighty! Can't wait to get some time and read through this!

Hi Steve,

I noticed that for your design of the now-defunct Mentalla character, the colours of the costume reminded me of Saturn Girl's early look in ADVENTURE.

And her powers were very similar to Imra's too.

What are your thoughts on this?

BrianT (Adelaide, Australia)

Very cool!
Thank you NC, I've never seen this thread before. I read the first page and it floored me. I'm with POVikins, I really despise Jeanette Khan's editorial decisions and hope she at last understands that she may be the most hated person ever to work at DC.
I'm saddened that Kara was refused her opportunity to be resurrected in the Legion at a time when we all missed her so much. At least Superboy got a grand LSH send off but the closest Kara ever got was that story about how much Brainy missed her.

Hi Gary,

If ever u want to chat about things, send me a note, you sound really cool

Brian (aka LegionAdventureMan)

Gary is the grooviest!

Here\'s Steve's answer earlier in this topic.

And thanks for the kind words Brian. I've usually got several projects going at once but, I do try to stop to chat with the LW gang on Wednesdays around 8:30AM your time (Tuesdays @ 4:00PM my time).

Read the first 8 pages of this thread last night!

Hi Steve,

I kinda liked how you redesigned Timber Wolf's costume, with the grey wolf icon and the darker colour schemes - you must have had inspiration from when Dave Cockrum was doing the Legion.

His designs were way out of this world - altho i never thought Phantom Girl's bell-bottoms as super-hero material.

One minor quibble: you made PG look silly with her little-girl-in-pigtails 'do.

BrianT
(Adelaide, Australia)

Welcome to Legion World, CTM. Your words from three years ago are still poignant today and for LSH #10/11!

Thanks Nightcrawler. It's great to be here. Sadly it seems the trend is still continuing...but thats a rant for another time.

Thanks again for the welcome!

Hi, I've got a question for Mr. Lightle.

On the cover of Legion #14, and I don't know how often you get questions like this, did you ever conceive any information about that big, faceless green guy under Comet Queen & Quislet and above Power Boy.

been wondering where Steve Lightle has been all along? Is he working on comics or ??

I believe the green guy was Quislet occupying a green object. At least that was my impression.

Yes, that is Quislet.

Hey Steve, not sure if you check in here often these days so in case you are thought you'd like to know how great the covers are that you have done recently are. Totally excellent!

I want to second the good word on your great Legion covers as of late!! Also, thanks for designing such a great character like Tellus all those years ago. Nice to see him get the spotlight on Legion Lost. I wish you were drawing the covers for that series as well.

Thirded! I'd go so far as to say, they're probably the best thing about the most recent series to this point!

One of my favorite threads, ever.

R.I.P. Steve.

Thanks, EDE.

He was a treasure, his work an inspiration to all.

Posting here what I wrote on Facebook:
One of the reasons I've largely stopped reading comics is that the modern crop of comic-book artists seem to be ignorant of one of their primary jobs as comic-book artists: to tell a story. All too often when I read a new comic, I have enormous trouble just figuring out what's actually going on in each panel. Every page is so layered with irrelevant detail that the action of the scene is totally buried.
The artists of my youth knew how to tell a story, even when packing unimaginable levels of detail into a frame. Steve Lightle was one of the best of these artists. Every page was a wealth of tiny details, but overall, the action took center stage and there was never any question about what story he was helping Paul Levitz (or Paul Kupperberg or whichever writer he was drawing for) tell. His anatomy was tight, his action was dynamic in the best Kirby tradition, and his creativity was off the charts. In the Legion of Super Heroes, he followed Keith Giffen, who had redefined the visual style of the 30th century setting, finally breaking away from the rockets of the '60s and the Star Trek inspired tech of the '70s. Steve was the perfect follow-up. He took Keith's ball and ran it down field, adding countless visual touches to improve the look of the comic. He also added some of the most memorable new characters in the book's history, including the thoroughly alien telepath and telekinetic Tellus. His run on the book was all too short and I know I'm not the only fan who desperately missed his beautiful clean lines, visual style, and gorgeous Legionnaires after he was gone.
This morning, we got the news that he is now truly gone, another of the victims of the scourge ravaging our land. He died this morning of COVID related heart failure. Although his mainstream comics career did not have one tenth the longevity it deserved, the torrent of tributes from creators and fans today is a testament to the influence and impact he left behind. I was fortunate, in this age of social media, to count him among my Facebook friends, as did many fans. We came to know Steve not just as a great artist, but as a kind, generous, and decent human being. He was deeply appreciative of our praise for his work. I'm glad that we were able to share it directly with him. I'll miss the possibility of ever seeing his graceful pencil on my beloved Legionnaires again, but my heart truly goes out to his beloved family, who are grieving a wonderful husband, father, and grandfather today.

well said, Director Lad. I agree, Steve's art always drew me into the story. Many artists now, I get lost without the speech bubbles.

Great post Director Lad. I like description of his work as 'graceful.' I'd been floundering for a word to describe his tight clean lines, and that's better than anything I came up with.

I also like the mention of how he made his Legionnaires gorgeous. Sexy, yet not sexualized, if that makes sense. It's a fine line to walk, and he did it masterfully.