Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The Defenders

I love the Defenders. I just love how wierd and offbeat of a superhero team they are.

That said I'm not a big fan of the classic stuff. Dr. Strange and Namor are the only classics I like in the book...especially Strange.

Casey like Geoff is good incorporating the history of a team yet taking it to new places. Atleast he talks like he's good at it. Let's find out!

Nighthawk and Valkyrie (with Aragorn!) had better be among the leads! They are necessities. I *hope* that Hellcat and Gargoyle appear, too-- but they are just a tad less important, IMO.

Doc Strange, Hulk, Namor and Silver Surfer may get the 'big four' nod, but the *real* stars were the ones who get lumped in the 'second tier' category. Namor and Surfer, particularly, were more or less guest-stars, outside of the initial 10 or so issues.

Joe Casey says something to the effect that the members will be pulled from all corners of the Marvel Universe.

So-- a magic wielder- or magic-associated- character... a god from either the Greek or Norse pantheons (or maybe an Eternal?)... an Inhuman... a mutant... a reformed villain or shade of gray sort of character... what else?

Golden-age character?
Atlantean?
Cosmic/space character?
Scientist?

What characters would you inscribe on the roster of THE DEFENDERS? And what 'corners' of the MU would they represent?

Mystery Lad, the Defenders haven't had the best luck lately. It seems they are shying away from the big four and I agree.

I would love to see Valkryrie, Hellcat, Gargoyle, Devil-Slayer and Nighthawk as well.

I wonder if they are going to get some under the radar but popular characters like Blade, Moon Knight or Ghost Rider? They also seem to fit the Defenders mold quite nicely.

Also the "Renegades" that appeared in Hulk recently felt like Defenders to me. Angel, Hercules, and Namora.

Angel was a Defender, Herc I'm suprised has never been one, and Namora has the Namor connection.

I'd say what's needed is a touch of the original four (Hulk may be unavailable, but you can't deny he's the big seller here), a touch of the other old 'stars' (though I'd prefer Dani Moonstar as the new Valkrye) and a touch of something completely different (I dig Jorg's idea of Ghost Rider, who could be another big seller). Two big sellers, even if it meant they were other comics, could help get the series new readers so we could actually have a Defenders to stay afloat.

I once wrote (for myself) a thirty issue synopsis of what I'd do as head writer of the Defenders. My preferences may have changed slightly, but overall my dream line-up would be something along the lines of:


Dr. Strange
Sub-Mariner
Black Knight
Crystal
Valkrye (Dani Moonstar)
Hellcat
Ghost Rider
*The Hulk - I'd add to draw in more fans


I also liked the 'Renegades' in the recent WWH. Using them as a basis for a new Defenders team would be cool, with some additions.


I like the non-team idea, but only if taken 100% seriously without the campiness.


Mainly, a comic like this needs to be as forward-looking and loaded with as many 'new concepts' as possible.


Tying into current Marvel continuity might not help. A post-Civil War team made up of compromises: Dr. Strange (unregistered), Black Knight (make him registered), Cyrstal (Inhuman), Namor (you know, Namor ), Dani (former mutant, X-related), Ghost Rider (beyond such designations), and then the Hulk (post WWH). That's pretty dyanmic in terms of where you stand in the Marvel U these days. Hellcat could be the one hero who falls outside such designations but unlike Ghost Rider must live with them every time she puts on her costume. Could be pretty kick-ass.


Oh, and new villains needed. A Hellstrom connection, even if he's a bastard, could be cool.

Daimon's not a bastard... his father's just The Debbil, tha'sall...

Something else else to keep in mind is the Defenders will be working for the MAN. Casey mentioned they might be one of the 50 states teams.

I'm interested enough in the team to check out the book. I'm not a fan of the satirical relaunches and I prefer the "second tier" as well.

Team members I'd love to see:
- Nighthawk (check!)
- Hellcat
- Gargoyle
- Moondragon (get her back from space!)
- Black Knight
- Captain Ultra
- Diamond (that's right, Mrs. Cage herself!)

I enjoyed the Giff/DeM/Maguire mini but would enjoy a return to the weirdness roots.

I'm assuming the Hulk is out based on what I've picked up from the Marvel titles I read.

So that leaves:

Dr. Strange
Nighthawk
Valkyrie (I prefer Dani in A:TI)
Hellcat
Gargoyle
Namora (She's alive? Super!)

You know what? I've never read any Defenders issus with Gargoyle in them. What's the scoop on the character? Interesting? Kinda lame?

Here's a write-up of Gargoyle's history (most of which I've forgotten), Cobie...

From Wikipedia:

"Isaac Christians was an elderly man who sold his soul to an alliance of minor demons styling themselves as "The Six-Fingered Hand" in exchange for prosperity for the town that his ancestors had founded (the fictional town of Christiansboro, Virginia). The demons of the Hand transferred Christians' life force into the body of an ancient gargoyle and sent him on a mission to capture Patsy Walker, at that time operating as Defenders member Hellcat. Christians rebelled against the Hand and allied himself with the Defenders to defeat them.

Christians was later released from the Gargoyle body and the original demon spirit re-inhabited it. Christians, to prevent the chaos being wreaked by the gargoyle, re-assumed the body and killed his original human body to prevent the demon from returning. Moondragon, under the influence of the Dragon of the Moon, separated Christians' life force from the gargoyle body. The body became larger and more grotesque. It was transformed into a statue of ash.

Christians' life force came to reside in a crystal. Eventually, the former Defender known as Cloud created a new body for Christians, with the ability to change back and forth between his gargoyle and human form.


[edit] Civil War/The Initiative
Christians has been identified as one of the 142 registered superheroes who appear on the cover of the comic book Avengers: The Initiative #1 . [2] He was shown flying in an attack against HYDRA.[3] He was then seen aiding Hellcat in Marvel Comics Presents.[issue # needed]


[edit] Powers and abilities
Gargoyle possessed superhuman strength in his gargoyle form. His leathery hide offered resistance to various forms of physical attack. He could manipulate "bio-mystical" energy to numerous effects, including concussive blasts. He could siphon bio-mystical energy from others, causing temporary debilitating weakness. Surrounding himself in a field of bio-mystical energy granted Gargoyle limited immunity to certain types of spells. Gargoyle could fly (levitate); his wings were non-functional for flight but could be used for navigation. Gargoyle could regenerate lost or damaged limbs, although they would differ wildly in appearance from the original limb. Prior to his transformation, Christians had some ability to manipulate mystical forces, including rudimentary spell-casting and summoning demons."

[Note: I tried to hyperlink but our UBB Code wouldn't allow the link-- even if copied and pasted to the text without using URL linkage]

What doesn't appear here is the description of Isaac's personality-- that is, he was essentially a kind, loyal soul. At least that's what I remember about him. The fact that he was much older than just about any superhero in his non-Gargoyle form made him unique.

I appreciate your listing Crystal and Black Knight. I'd like to see them show up in a team book (though part of me wants to see Crys function for a while without a hint of romantic entanglement).

I wonder if Marvel'll revisit that era? It doesn't seem to be an one that's particularly a touchstone for the current regime.

Though I love Dani and I'd enjoy seeing her as *a* Valkyrie, the one I want to read about in Defenders would have to be blonde, Norse-based demi-goddess with a crazy background. *The* Valkyrie.

If there were a substitute, I'd opt for Sif as the Defender's Valkyrie.

Namora would be interesting-- especially if she brought about an Agents of Atlas team-up.

Well, that didn't take long. Our speculation's all for naught. Here's the lineup, at least according to a post on Comic Book Resources quoting the official solicits.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Colossus, She-Hulk, and Blazing Skull. An all new Defenders lineup led by Nighthawk. </span></span>

Two of the three, I'm on board for-- but the third? I've started to enjoy that character in other adventures they've recently had, but this just brings up the reason I didn't like them that much in the first place.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text"> This reminds me of when She-Hulk took Crystal's place as most-noted Fantastic Four 'replacement'. To many fans, she's the 'fifth' FFer... to me, that slot'll *always* belong to Crystal. Just as Valkyrie should be the Defenders strong gal. </span></span>

I'll likely buy this, but I'm not as excited as I was.

I am not excited about this lineup at all. While it has two of my fave characters from other places I just can't imagine it. And I think one of them is a red herring personally. <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">As in not Colossus but IT the Living Colossus.</span></span>

It's a mini and it's called the Last Defenders. Did Casey say there was going to be a series following up? If so I guess we might see a more traditional lineup.

I just saw the cover and the members are everybody Mystery Lad said. I'm a big fan of the two of them (the strong ones). But it's just wierd.

I enjoyed BS in "Invaders". I certainly like the other characters, plus the art's pretty good so I'm definitely on board for the first few to see where it goes and what exactly the mutant member of the team is doing there (maybe Wolverine was too busy)

To tell the truth it's about time another mutant joined another team. I always wanted Colossus, Angel, Nightcrawler, etc. to join another superhero team. I know Angel has.

Angel, along with Beast and Iceman I believe, were members of the Defenders in a prior incarnation (the lineup when the original Defenders series was cancelled). Angel was also in the short-lived Champions series of the '70s.

Wasn't Iceman on the Champions as well? He got involved with Darkstar then I believe.

Angel, Beast and Iceman are the only ones...oh and Wolverine.

I love seeing Angel in the Defenders and Champions. Same with Iceman. Loved seeing Beast in the Avengers and Defenders.

But Colossus and Nightcrawler deserve a chance outside the X-world.

Storm, I believe, would be the one that works best outside the X-verse.

I prefer Iceman within the X-verse, but actually like Beast and Angel outside.

This line-up is 'meh'. Probably won't pick up until I get reccomendations from people who like the same stuff as me. Like I said, Casey's writing has never impressed me, and the line-up has no draws for me. Nighthawk is the Defender I care the least about.

Aye Cobaltus, Nighthawk is my least favorite Defender.

What can he do Devil-Slayer can't?! DEVIL-SLAYER is the man!

Devil-Slayer by Garth Ennis and David Finch!

It would be so awesome my eyes would bleed.

Has anyone read her in "Fantastic Four"? That any good?

I like Iceman and Angel outside the X-world as well. They seem to fit in regular Marvel mainsteam somehow.

Drake, watching T'Challa and Storm sub for Reed/Sue was fun but it wasn't great.

Angel, Iceman and the Beast don't belong in the X-verse!

Luckily for you, you'd have time to heal. No way that creative team could stay on schedule.