Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Has a creator's personal/political statements ever made you drop a book?

what?
when?
who?
why?

Busiek - Avengers - not taking diversity as a serious issue (spoofing it in his intro of ANOTHER enhanced athlete black man in the Triune Church Conspiracy stories)

Byrne - ever since he started on the hooker-looking Jessica Alba thing, i won't touch his stuff

Dixon - BOP - homophobic comments about Winick and Morrison working on mainstream books

I know I should drop Doom Patrol because Byrne is such a prick and his comments about Jessica Alba were racist and over-the-top. Unfortunatley, I'm enjoying Doom Patrol. That's not a very good excuse, is it.

In terms of books, I couldn't read another Ayn Rand novel (or diatribe if you prefer) after I read her comments on the physically and mentally challenged. She was one mean low-life.

Just curious about where people drew the line and how long they held it - no judgement.
There'll come a time when I pick up Byrne again (not soon though). Every time I cross the mental picket line in my head, I feel like a twit. So I figured I'm not the only twitty-feeling one: we all have people we've dropped over things they've said or made that have offended us, and gone back and bought more later, right?

You know, I read her when I was a kid -- 5th grade? -- and thought she was total science fiction, she was so surreal.

Chuck Dixon's comments about Rawhide Kid have stopped me buying his sutff. I wasn't enjoying his run on Birds of Prey anyway but when he came out with his rant that Marvel must have tricked the artist John Thingy (sorry! I know he's a legend!) into drawing it, because he wouldn't have drawn it if he knew the Kid was supposed to be gay, really pissed me off.

It was offensive on a lot of levels. His own homophobia aside, he was basically saying that John Artist Man must have been senile! And he was saying these things without seeing a single issue of Rawhide Kid!

To anyone who read that book it's totally clear that the man knew exactly what he was drawing. Dixon just made himself look like a ridiculous idiot for saying those things.

I will never pick up a Marvel book after the bill and joe show. The posturing and preening made me forever drop Marvel Books.

I had forgotten about Dixon's comments re: RAWHIDE KID (which was faboo both in story & art).

He's just mad because Winick and Morrison books outsell his, as does Simone's BoP.

Does he even have a job following the implosion of CROSSGEN?

If I were DC, I'd say "Tough noogies"!

John Severin (?) on Rawhide Kid was BRILLIANT. I don't remember his prior work (I'm woefully illiterate in the medium's visual side). Great action sequences and character interactions within this sprawling Wild West landscape that was never cheapened by a colorwash disguised as backgrounds. He drew all the rocks on the ground and all the clouds in the sky, man. IN THE WILD WEST! The plot was a bit mediocre - lots of punch lines to jokes that never went anywhere - BUT THE ART WAS PHENOMENAL.

Yeah, Chuck Dixon showed his a$$ and it was those series of outbursts (where he condemned the creative teams of Flash for Pied Piper, Superman for Maggie Sawyer, Green Latern for that gay assistant thing and Morrison's X-Men for introducing kids to gay people -- because gods forbid! young people get exposed about humanity's diversity -- they might even imagine we're all human!?!?!?!) that burned his bridges with me too. I chucked Dixon where the sun don't shine.

I know I'm not being very original here but I also kinda keep away from Chuck Dixon after I read his comments about 'the gays' in comics ages ago.

Seeing that hideous proposal of his for Crossgen's 'American Power' didn't help his cause any in my books either. (Greg Land came close to being boycotted for his part in that fiasco also... but who could boycott Greg Land?)

He's written Nightwing: Year One, which will appear in issues #101-106 of that title.

Well, I hope it flops.

Why DC is letting him back in is beyond me.

At one time, he RULED the Batverse, and yet he still left DC for Crossgen. FEH! on him! A thousand times, FEH!

I have to briefly demur from the comments above regarding Ayn Rand -- whom I don't believe ever said anything actually denigrating anyone with physical or mental disabilities. And I say this from reading, studying, and -- yes -- admiring her work in fiction and philosophy for nearly 30 years.

If she had so slammed anyone, I would have read it. She actually saw such deficiencies as being part of what existence presents to us, and of no moral import. That is, except in the praise that is due -- as with any human being -- for transcending difficulties and creating a life of rational clarity. As for how she saw that distinction, see her luminous essay on "Kant vs. Sullivan" (Annie Sullivan, Helen Keller's teacher) in Rand's book "Philosophy: Who Needs It."

I regret to say that she was not free of matters of being shortsighted in other areas, such as in her seeing homosexuality as a moral fault of sorts. She was far from perfect, but the comments above are utterly unfair to her.

(This is not on topic, and I'll gladly discuss this in Anywhere Machine if anyone wants to pursue matters of Rand any further.)

As to being on topic ...

I've never dropped a comics title due to a creator's political or personal views. They've usually been kept out of the medium, in my experience.

That is, except for a general skepticism about politicians. And apart from a general over-reliance on the existing political State, as being identified with, say, "the American Way." Society and the State are quite different. That misconception is hardly unique to comics.

Comics creators can create as much assholery in their personal statements as any other creative types. Few even hint at it influencing their work, though. For those who do, I would hope that appraising their work comes to be a task for readers apart from that of gauging personal repulsion.

I have only one real issue regarding crossovers of the artistic and the personal: I don't want to get one element when I'm paying for the other.

Take two examples, the current "Vote for Change" singers' tour raising money for efforts opposing Bush's re-election -- and Barbra Streisand's concerts in the last decade.

The former case doesn't bother me, in the sense of politicizing art. (I do oppose Bush.) Those going to the concert know when they buy the tickets that it's a politically motivated event, where a viewpoint is presumed, on stage and off. Nobody gets what they did not pay for.

Streisand, in her 1994 and 2000 concerts, set them up as pure concerts, represented them that way ... and then inserted moments of blatant political statements into them. I paid $350 in 1994 to hear her sing in New York -- to hear her sing, I emphasize. I did not pay for a six-minute multimedia paean to Bill Clinton, over "Happy Days Are Here Again." I did not, at a high per-minute rate, get what I paid for.

Sell art or performance as art or performance. Sell support for a cause, any cause, as such support. I can take that, whether it's dealing with media statements or buying tickets (or comics). I can't take it when one crosses over into the other.

At various times I've found that Judd Winnick's blatant liberal bias, just like Chuck Dixon's blatant conservative bias, gets in the way of his story-telling and hurts the characters. The way Winnick is writing Batman and Green Arrow right now is slightly annoying, and the way he writes Nightwing in Outsiders is sometimes too.

FYI, I consider myself to be very liberal and slightly radical. I also like Outsiders a lot. And Winnick, as far as I know, as never said anything outside of his work to make me dislike him, and actually seems very likeable IMO.

Byrne feels like the only one that is a big enough asshole that I might want to not get his work (although I usually always do when it's one of the traditional characters for DC or Marvel). Plus, my Dad is a huge fan of Byrne's FF and X-Men of the 80's and is too 'out of the loop' to know what any creator has ever said to the media that's not actually in the comic, so he likes to pick up Byrne's comics for their artwork. He's very much old school and shys away from Fanzines or the internet.

At various times Rob Liefield and Joe Quesada have come off as such huge assholes that I've thought about never buying anything from them again--although this was just them being assholes, not anything political.

Winick's political stuff never bothered me (heck, one of my favourite issues of Exiles is the one where Sunfire "comes out" and Morph gets in an anti-smoking-ads bit). What bugs me is the way all of his characters talked in the same "voice" most of the time, and he can write some very, very weak stuff, which means he made my no-buy list later.

I totally agree Mr Reboot. His stuff is a bit samey and his characters arent very convincing. Sunfire in Exiles and Jade in Green Lantern both struck me as particularly unconvincing.

Although it was well intentioned I found his GL Hates Crimes issues worthy in the extreme too. (On an unrelated note, he also seems capable of writing a book of 30 or 40 issues and taking it absolutely nowhere - see both GL and Exiles!)

I was only marginally enjoying Joe Kelly's JLA prior to his Iraq commentary issue, but that issue made me go ahead and drop the title. It's not a situation where I'll never look at his stuff again, but that put me off to him in regards to JLA.


Technically, he never really left. He did the Batgirl Year One series (well recieved, AFAIK) while he was at Crossgen.

In any case, I think it was time for him to go when he did head for Crossgen. I liked a few of his Batman stories, but I thought Grayson, Rucka and Brubaker a few years ago were a clear upgrade.

And Gail Simone on BoP is DEFinitely an upgrade!

I agree--Rucka, Brubaker and Simone (and kinda Willingham on Robin) have all been EXCELLENT.

Only Steve Ditko ever made me not buy book because of his politics and it was his b/w indie series where he pontificated at length on his rabid American dominated pro war stance.
Yeah he was a genius within the industry but I think personally he was a pretty wierd guy.

I don't recall dropping any comics for that reason (I've dropped a ton of comics for other reasons). But I did once drop a TV show for that reason.

HUNTER's 7th season-- the one without DeeDee McCall-- was drab-looking, colorless, character-less, HUMOR-less, and increasingly had plots that were completely indecipherable. This is what happened when Fred Dryer took over as co-exec producer. He tried so hard to overcome criticisms of the series, that he went too far and wound up murdering his own show.

But the final nail for me was the episode which guest-starred Denise Crosby (from ST:TNG). In that atrocity, she was a victim of a violent crime-- and Rick Hunter actually had the nerve to stand up for the "rights" of the ACCUSED criminal! If anyone else in the series had done it, okay... but not TV's version of DIRTY HARRY himself!!! Hunter would have been the guy to stick up for the rights of the VICTIM, and do whatever it took to bring the criminal to justice. After that, I couldn't watch anymore. Whatta ya know? 2 weeks after I stopped watching, TV GUIDE announced the show had been cancelled. (Big surprise, eh?)

JOHN SEVERIN: Check out...

STRANGE TALES #136-138 / Sep-Nov'65 (Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD)

CREEPY #7 / Feb'66

EERIE #2 / Mar'66

THE ROOK #12-14 / Dec'81-Apr'82 (EAGLE, a western)

BLACKHAWK #257 / Apr'83

DESPERADOES: QUIET OF THE GRAVE (2001, Western mini from Homage)

...and several DOZEN issues of SGT. FURY AND HIS HOWLING COMMANDOS, MAD, and a multitude of other books, including quite a few 1970s issues of THE INCREDIBLE HULK.

Also, go to...

http://www.samcci.comics.org/

...and click on "Artists", there's a whole PAGE of John's covers on display!

Say what?

"Hunter" had seven seasons???? I thought maybe it had three tops...

""Hunter" had seven seasons???? I thought maybe it had three tops..."

Well, it's like this... The 1st season (it premiered the same month as MIAMI VICE and MURDER SHE WROTE, I recorded one tape of episodes from all 3) the show was kind of on the "dumb but fun" side. It was created by the same folks who did THE A-TEAM, you see, and TV GUIDE and others NEVER let them forget it! I believe John Amos was his boss after the pilot.

The 2nd year brought in Bruce Davidson (WILLARD) as a far more intelligent boss, and the scripts improved drastically.

The 3rd year brought in Charles Hallahan who stuck until the end. This was when the show really "found itself", and the scripts were generally top-notch for seasons 3-5.

The 6th year, Fred Dryer became co-exec producer, and decided that since the show's name was HUNTER, and not HUNTER AND DEE DEE, that it should focus on HIM, not him AND his partner. BIG screw-up. Tension mounted as the quality of scripts dropped. At the end of the year, Stephanie Kramer left the show, and as far as my Dad was concerned, that was it...

The 7th year, HUNTER foolishly tried to copy the style of MIAMI VICE, except without any "style" at all. My Dad felt the show got bad without Dee Dee, but I told him, NO, Dee Dee left BECAUSE it had already gotten bad the year before. 13 episodes into the 7th year, his new partner was KILLED (the actress had not been getting along with Dryer). A 3rd partner came in, and the characters began a romantic relationship that had strangely never existed between Hunter & Dee Dee. But I never saw the end of the season.

YEARS later, a TV movie, THE RETURN OF HUNTER, aired, with only Dryer returning. It was pretty depressing.

And just last year (I think), a new, 2nd revival movie aired, in which Dee Dee returned. Miraculously, they managed to get the quality back in the writing. I don't know if a 3rd revival movie is in the works or not.

And here's the "funny" part. Flipping channels, I ran across one of those 7th-season eps., and recognized Lauren Lane as Hunter's partner. She's probably MOST famous as "C.C. Babcock" on THE NANNY! But I don't recall if she was the 2nd partner (the one who got killed) or the 3rd one (the one Hunter had an affair with).

Whenever I look at Lauren Lane (especially when she was younger), I think she would have made a great Dinah Drake. I think the guy who's been drawing GREEN ARROW the last few years makes Dinah look like her.