Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Invulnerability of the Legionnaires

Hey there, it's me, still working on the game. Brief question about Invulnerability.............
How powerful was Blok's invulnerability as compared to Sperboy's? Was Ultra Boy always considered to be the same as Sups or a wee bit less?

For Ultra Boy, I think when it was full on, his invulnerability was the same as Superboy's & Mon-el's. Although it probably was slightly better as he was not vulnerable to kryptonite or lead. However, he did have the problem of switching to invulnerability from one of his other powers. I would say that the change of powers occurred very fast, maybe less than a second, but it was not instantaneous.

As for Blok, I always got the impression that his invulnerability was less than Superboy's. I believe in some stories, the artist shows little chips coming off of Blok. To me Blok has the hardness and durability of the hardest rock, but is not invulnerable. Superboy, Mon-el, & Ultra Boy woould survive being at ground zero of a nuclear explosion, but Blok would be blown up. IMHO

That's one thing that I think the artists kind of messed with, was the idea of Blok (or the Thing) constantly having little cracks or chunks flying off, while fleshy complexioned invulnerable characters like the Hulk or Superman would just shrug off the blows.

IMO, the stony-skinned people were *supposed* to be just as invulnerable as the fleshies, but the artists just seemed to love showing cracks in their exterior and little pieces flying off of them as a sort of visual shorthand to represent brutal attacks. All it ended up doing was making Blok and the Thing appear to be less invulnerable than Batman or Spider-Man, who would take hits *without* parts of their bodies flying off in all directions...

Ultra Boy, I'd definitely make every bit as invulnerable as the Krypto-Daxamites, just not at the same time as anything else. He's basically 'all the powers of Superboy, but only one at a time,' not 'weaker versions of the powers of Superboy, one at a time.'

[Realistically, it's likely that Jo *should* be able to access at least minor levels of his other abilities. His super-strength, for instance, would be useless if he wasn't at least somewhat invulnerable, as he'd tear himself to shreds trying to juggle stuff that outmassed him, and possibly even tear himself apart. Similarly, he's been shown switching to invulnerability fast enough to avoid being creamed by an energy blast, which suggests that even when he isn't specifically using ultra-speed, he's got some pretty darn good reactions... Although, logically, if that's his one thing, having to learn to switch *FAST* would probably be a darned good idea, and it would make sense that he would be real good at switching powers on the fly! Unlike Mon-El and Superboy, who kinda have it easy, by comparison, Jo has to really think during combat (and fast!), which is somewhat ironic, since he's generally portrayed as a dim bulb by comparison...]

There's a lot of squiffy undefined levels between Superboy / Mon-El / Ultra Boy invulnerability and normal tissue paper vulnerability like Lightning Lad, Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl.

Timber Wolf, for instance, appears to be at least *somewhat* tougher than normal. A full on face punch from a normal human might knock Garth unconscious, but it will only piss Brin off.

Dawnstar's immunity to acceleration, friction, the vacuum / radiation / cold of space, etc. might also extend to making her tougher than expected, although it's possible that it works similar to the abilities of Sam Guthrie / Cannonball from the New Mutants, and protects her specifically when she's accelerating / moving fast (where impact with a mote of space dust, or even air friction would cause her to detonate like a nuclear bomb, if she tried to go anywhere near the trans-light speed she's been indicated to possess), and not when she's just standing around.

Also, it's stated every now and then that Ultra Boy's invulnerability works just a little bit differently from how Superboy's and Mon-El's does. Sometimes it keeps him safe by pulling some kind of mysterious trick or other.

Ultra Boy is described as being vulnerable to "radiation", which, if it were consistently followed through, should actually make him vulnerable to most of the "ray guns" used by bad guys in the Legion. In practice, the weakness is largely ignored.

I read Jo's statement about being vulnerable to radiation, which works fine for me. The question I have though is do we know for certain all of the ray weapons used in the comic are radiation based? If they are I will present them as such for the game, I'm just not positive they all are radiation based, do we have any avenues we can explore to discern this for certain?

Now when Ultra Boys in space (I'm using Adventure Comics through the 70's here) I believe I see him without a helmet most or all of the time right? He switches his Ultra power back and forth in combat, usually from invulnerability to super strength.

Now in my game I'm having him making a die roll to see how fast he can switch back and forth and thus survive in space doing this. Here's the Weakness I wrote for him, can I get some feed back on whether this would seem accurate or plausable from the comic point of vierw.


Only Use 1 Power At A Time: The Legionnaire, villain or other NPC has an array of powers but is limited to using them one at a time. This requires the individual to "switch" back and forth as specific powers are needed. A category is applied with this weakness, the higher the category, the more control the character possess, the lower the category, the more difficult it becomes to "switch" powers as needed.

When a character switches powers, they must make a d20 roll and add their category number to the result. If the total equals or exceeds a challenge score of 20, the character succeeds in changing powers without affecting any of their actions (treat the switch as a free action). A failed die roll indicates the character was unable to switch powers fast enough and cannot do so until their next action is available in the initiative sequence and the switch utilizes an action itself. A character who is surprised is not unable to switch powers in a manner that would aid them from an attack or otherwise give them an unfair advantage being the unsuspecting individual they are.

I'm thinking that Ultra Boy's category in this weakness is pretty high based on the comics, I'm thinking Ultra/14 perhaps. What do you think? This means he fails on a d20 roll of 5 or less.

I don't know if there's anything definitive. "Radiation" can actually mean a lot of different things. In the broadest sense, any form of energy is radiation. Presumably, they mean "radiation" in a narrower sense (probably "ionizing radiation"), which probably wouldn't include ordinary blasters of the sort normally found in sci-fi such as the Legion, however they are supposed to work. That seems consistent with the way he's usually protrayed.

This make sense to me play-wise.

You may want to consider Bouncing Boy have a bit of invulnerability, at least while he is inflated. He's able to bounce off of hard objects without hurting himself, so there could be something there. Of course it wouldn't by Kryptonian levels, but it's obvious that he can take significantly more damage, than say, Saturn Girl.

There certainly are Legionnaires who are tough, but I think the only ones who actually have "invulnerability" are Mon, Ultra-Boy, the Kryptonians and Blok.

Of those, I imagine the Kryptonians and Mon rank the same, then U-Boy slightly behind, then Blok a little more behind that.

I would say that Matter-Eater Lad (and all Bismolians) must have an invulnerable inside of their throat. Either that or they have instant healing on that part of their body. All that sharp metal going down their throats.

In the cartoon version, at least, a bomb can explode inside a Bismollian with no negative effects. "Invulnerable innards", as suggested by MLLASH, makes a lot of sense as a corollary of their powers.

I thought Bismolians were just supposed to have super powerful saliva and stomach acid. I'm sure it's been described several ways though...

That was the reboot version.

Preboot Bismollians converted matter to energy through some sort of internal nuclear reaction.

I agree, and so it shall be done. Thanks

DC RPG 2nd Ed - Invulnerability/Skin Armour ratings

Blok - 34
Kara - 45
Lar - 46
Jo - 35
Kal - 43
Andrew - 25

There was a 5 year gap story where after an attempt on Ultra Boys life he stated "I always leave my invulnerability on".

Yeah, that was in issue 2 where he survives a building being blown up around him. Blok's invulnerability against explosives saw him die in only the next issue.

Timber Wolf seems to be fairly durable. But I think it's more of advanced healing than it is heightened invulnerability.

With Timber Wolf, I think it's more like Spider-Man's unwritten toughness. Bullets won't bounce off his skin, but, if your musculature is capable of exerting *tons* of force, without ripping itself apart, or tearing your limbs from their sockets, or shredding your skin, or crushing your internal organs when you suck in your gut, then you've got to have a *bit* of toughness to go with the strength, just to use the strength without exploding into a puddle of gore the first time you strike a pose or flex a bicep.

(Barring folk whose 'super-strength' has nothing to do with their bodies, such as people using 'tactile telekinesis' or whatever.)

On the other side of the equation, folk who are invulnerable but not explicitly super-strong (like Laurel Kent), would punch a lot harder than one would expect, since all of the force of their punch is coming right at you, and there is no bounce-back into their own muscles, bones, tendons, etc. combined with them being able to throw any sort of sloppy haymaker they want, with no fear of cracking a knuckle or pulling a tendon or straining their shoulder or throwing their back out.

A fair number of super-powers by themselves would require what TV Tropes calls 'requisite secondary powers,' like whatever it is that allows speedsters to breathe without their cheeks tearing open the first time they open their mouths, or their feet to continue pounding pavement at hundreds of miles per hour without being mashed into hamburger within the first half-mile.

Comics seem to use the word 'invulnerability' as if it's an all or nothing state of affairs. Superman is 'invulnerable,' until someone like Doomsday punches him, and then suddenly, he's very much *not* invulnerable. Spider-Man, Timber Wolf, etc. seem not 'invulnerable' (to any degree, and neither seems in character to be immune to paper cuts or shaving accidents, despite being able to take punches from powerful people), but are *tough* and resilient, which allows them to take (and deliver!) beatings far in excess of what a normal boxer / martial artist could handle.

Things only get muddled further when Bouncing Boy's inflatable body is explicitly called 'invulnerable' or Dawnstars space-faring-adapted body is listed as 'invulnerable' in a text box, when neither of them are Superman-levels of invulnerable.

Bouncing Boy does seem more or less invulnerable to kinetic impact, when inflated, but that doesn't seem like it would make a difference to radiation, or fire, or lasers, so it's probably not ideal to refer to it by that term.

Dawnstar (and Comet Queen, for that matter), capable of near light speed spaceworthy flight, and immune to the pressures, gravity, lack of pressure, lack of gravity, extremes of temperature, friction, radiation, micro-particle impacts, etc. might also be 'invulnerable' to a bunch of stuff, but she's rarely, if ever, been portrayed as *bullet-proof.*

Then you have someone like Wonder Woman, who can withstand impacts that ordinary humans can't - but is very definitely not bulletproof (else why would she need to use her bracelets to bounce bullets away from her?)

Monstress was in the same boat.

Thunder and the Marvel family seem to be similar to our Kryptonian and Daxamite friends, though I can't recall an instance where I've seen one of them getting hit by a bullet or something like that. So I'm not quite sure about that either.