Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Spoilers - Issue # 36

Just read it...

The art is amazing. Nuff said.

A worry from last issue was Brainy going mad? Umbra snapped him out of it pretty well...slapped across the face until he responded. Brainy got real effective after that.

In a foreshadowing of Waid's Legion I wonder i Brainy will be more like his ancestor Vril Dox? hmmm.

The story of Val on Oasis with the SPs firmly standing with him against dozens of criminals was cool. The battle was also good nice to see atleast one villain has a brain...the Persauder.

Alright Nightwind?! Like her better with a hood but I am just glad she's around! Dr. Gym'll is assisting? Oh no.

Another good issue but this ending has really worry. As a huge fan of both Dr. Gym'll and Timberwolf?! Arrow speaks lots of italian doesn't her?

On Arrow's comment last issue...thinking about it between posts...something about a concert inciting sufferring, etc. I quick search found La Vacamata...which means the cow kills. And I found something about the city bolognia? Been there once myself a few months ago but didn't see much. So tell us of the revulotianry itailian stuff Gail?

thanks

Jorge

Well I always described the Legion as the Avengers meet Star Trek personally.

I would like a tad more sci-fi in the new series especially cause I think Kitson excels in sci-fi versus super-hero.

But I will tell you right now I'm not the sci-fi fan mot ppl here are. Infact you can call me easy. As long as it sounds good I buy it. In other words I'm a novice(ignorant) sci-fi fan.

Jorge

Thinking about the Spike - a large electro-magnetic pulse would take out our electricity-based machines but not our brains, isn't that so?

The powers affected so far seem to be those that were acquired after birth - Wildfire, Livewire, Brainiac's implants. Now Jo's powers came after birth, but I suppose one could argue that space whale creatures (or whatever it was in this latest incarnation) differed somehow from the others' power origins. Everything's explainable with a "we just haven't discovered that yet".

On that subject, to flog a dead horse, I would like to see magic - aka things we can't explain with known science - have a presence in the Legion universe. Just a few threads in the superhero/sci-fi tapestry.

Like Mysa, Dragonmage, anyone to do with the (Captain) Marvel family... I take it that the Amazons aren't an issue anymore, nor does Atlantis still have magicusers that are involved with the rest of the universe...?

Recently I was thinking that really, some of the Legionnaires probably do have magic based abilities, but the thing is their science can explain it. A lot of magic seems to involve strange energies, but if you catalogue and name the energy and slap "we're still studying all it's properties" label on it, magic could be there and it's just not being called that.

Maybe that's reaching a little, but the DCU does have quite a bit of magic to it (much more than the Marvel U, where most things are psionic or chemical or both in nature). There are no descendants of Zatanna, or of John Constantine? Etrigan is gone? Demonic invasion is no longer a concern?

Sorry if this makes less sense than I hope, I just woke up from.. a strange dream. If I ever *actually* get sent to the moon by Batman, come visit!

I think the Legion lends itself to be more science fiction-oriented than other super group titles just because of its future setting. The charm of the early Adventure stories that launched the Legion often centered around some magnificent scientific invention or architecture or civilization. I thought DnA did a great job of recapturing some of that in their early Legion stories, and Keith Giffen brought an amazing futuristic visual style to the Legion during his early run.

As far as Gail Simone's favorite characters that didn't make this current four-parter - I like Triad, Xs, and Invisible Kid as well. IK has had some story time recently, but it would have been cool to see Triad, and especially the overdue reappearance of XS. I guess the speed force would not be working in the spike area as well?

I have enjoyed the first two issues of this storyline, and realize just how much I've missed the interweaving of subplots throughout a Legion story. Looking forward to the next two issues!

"And Gail - on the "inured" crack, I swear will reply to that later (probably tommorrow) when I get the time. I'm not trying to go BB on you here."

Oh, I know! Listen, honestly, I'm such a science nerd that I may be all too eager to debate this stuff...sorry if that comes off as pissy. I swear it's not, I just love that stuff.

As for BB, honestly, I know he's a good guy and we just got off on the wrong foot. I hope he comes back to this thread even if he hates my stuff. I feel bad we got angry.


"Whoops . That's the sort of thing that happens when you reply without the issue in front of you, after reading a long thread. I hereby retract that bit."

Oh, no worries, honestly. I do really like your posts.

Lash, bless you for all the kind words. Wait'll you see what happens NEXT issue.


Tromium, I frankly think you've hit it exactly. As much as I love true science, I don't think LSH has ever come close to accurately representing what life will be like a thousand years from now. Some of the tech they use will likely come to us in decades, rather than centuries, and that's just the beginning. I think it's better as future fantasy than straight science fiction. It's one of the very, very few future versions of superheroics that works, and I think it's because they still are recognizably human. I think one of the great strengths of DnA's work is the way they straddled that line.

Gail

" love cellular trim rays, miracle machines and crazy, stupid theories that work. That kinda stuff really tickles me."

Lash, that's fine, but things that WORK tend not to be junk science. Can you give me an example?


My thinking with Lialla is twofold: First, if she really is Persuader's daughter, then she's a military brat. They tend to 'Sir' and 'Ma'am' a lot. Second, I think of all the Legionnaires, KK would be one of those that would most automatically command repsect just by his presence.

The Marvel family is magic-based, it's true, but they have a defined set of powers, which makes it less of a catch-all than some of the Dr. Fate types. I love Zatanna, by the way, probably because I am a huge fan of real-world stage magic. Just a personal thingie.

Gail

I think the sci-fi elments of the Legion can and should be fantastic. We're talking a thousand years from now. I would think anything that's developed that far in the future would seem fantastic or even preposterous to us. If you were writing a novel or a movie that's one thing, but the Legion is ongoing and you don't want to get too caught up in "realistic" science because there's every chance one particular conception of the future will seem outdated a few years down the line.

This is probably one of the reasons the Legion keeps getting rebooted -- there's an effort to maintain a futuristic world-view that seems "believable" as time and technology marches on. I think the less hard science, more fantastic stuff will be just as fantastic ten years from now wheras the hard science stuff will become outdated.

One thing I've noticed, especially in reading stuff from the Silver Age, is that oft-times there tends to be more a vague conception of "future tech" rather than a well-thought out conception of what we will have when. There really wasn't much difference between the futures presented in various visits to the 21st, 25th, 30th, or 80th centuries, technology wise. And this was rarely much different than stuff they'd have on Krypton or other alien planets in the 20th century.

Yeah, it's why, of all the Disneyland 'lands,' the only one that doesn't have a single attraction from its early days is Tomorrowland, because they would do attractions that stopped looking futuristic a few years later. Now the whole area is themed to a more generic fantasy/Jules Verne element, which they imagine will last forever.

Gail

I don't recall the Persuader's military background. Which military was he in? Also, not all military brats use sir and ma'am. My dad was in the military and was very sure that his children shouldn't have to call people sir or ma'am. He *had* to whether that person deserved the implied respect or not. Another point, if Lialla was raised by the military person, there'd be more of a chance she'd use terms of implied respect, but she wasn't raised by the Persuader. I think it's weird that she'd use any term other than "Karated Kid" in this case. That would seem the most appropriate or respectful name to use for a Legionnaire, their code-name.

Honestly, this bit from the story doesn't really get to me, though. I only felt like responding to the "military brat" reference, because I was one. Yes, I knew military families who made it a very high priority for the kids to operate in a military-like way. There are many different kinds of families, even within the military.

Next... I guess what I like best about the Legion is the whole fantasy. I love the science fiction aspects. I love the exotic charcters. I love the magic and the heroics and the drama. If there's some floaty gadget that can do all kinds of keen things, I don't need to know how or why it works. I'm fine with just believing that it does. Also, I don't want to see Brainy in a sleek, clean lab with only simple, elegant machinery, I want to see all the noodly wiring and boxy machines with gears and nuts and bolts sticking out and test tubes and a million buttons and panels and handles. Put some rocket wings on a couple gizmos, while yer at it!

One more thing about future tech - it's up to the writer to make it believable within the context of its story and to make its made-up science believable - to give some parameters for understanding what it is just for the sake of drama and the reader's comprehension. I think if something is introduced that seems *too* out there and isn't explained, it doesn't have dramatic resonance because the reader feels the writer can cheat and have it do /function however s/he sees fit. As long as there is some rationale behind it, the reader then understands the parameters that the characters themselves are dealing with.

I just can't wait to read what you're gonna do with good old Brainac 5, Gail... I guess you would really like each other

Originally (re: pre-boot) the element was a psychosensitive material so while it did need some extra tech to focus the will as well as adding the beacon and communicator it would still function without for those who had a strong will. Post-boot I don't know. I've not read the origination other than it was Lyle this time around who created the flight rings. So I take it the material itself is no longer psychosensitive?

I think the sheer variety of potential in the 31st century setting could encompass hard sci-fi, fantasy, 'pure' superheroics, horror, noir, whodunits, romance, soap opera, etc.

One aspect of sci-fi that I think could really be expanded in Legion storytelling is that of 'world building'. I'd love to see the various civilizations inhabiting the many Legion worlds examined. Particularly, I'd like to see how the superpowered populaces of Imsk, Braal, Caargg, etc. are different culturally. We've seen this from time to time... most recently in Umbra's spotlight. I wish we'd see more... Metropolis included, but not prioritized IMO.

Regarding technology, remember that there's been at least one *major* breakdown in the intervening millenium, with an implied 'Dark Ages' of indeterminate length.

Whether that's true throughout the UP hasn't been stated.

I'd like to see a bit more about how citizens of this future have advanced as people. Remember Ayla's horror at the 20th century practice of eating meat? And how Gates was taken aback by the plight of the homeless?

A little of that can go a long way... but we still need to see those little 'bits' from time to time.

There should be more that's advanced than technology, I think.

Todd

I love this arc Gail! With Karate Kid, I thought an interesting and unexpected twist would be to delve into his past and have him mention how his father was a criminal too...yeah, I know Val's origin hasn't been touched upon but suppose Val & Lialla form a sort of bond (because their father's are criminals) and Val can relate to what Lialla is going through because he tells her that his father rejected him too.

What caused that growth on Lialla's face? Was it a birthmark or did she once get too close to the Persuader's axe?

Speaking for myself Gail (& I am unanimous in this), I hope that you'll come back to the new book one day. I know that you'd be a welcome addition.

You're still invited to the Legion Chat whenever you're free. Tuesdays:5:30-6:30pm EST and Saturdays: 3-5pm EST. The name of the chatroom is "The Legion". If you don't have AOL, you can download the AOL Instant Messenger at aim.com, and send a message to me (RassilonBTS03) or another way is to just send an invitation to yourself.

Best,

Ray Currie
numberonelegionfan

You know, this story does remind me of something - another story I like. It's the circular area of no working tech that does it. In the cartoon Yoroiden Samurai Troopers (translated in America as Ronin Warriors), the villain does a similar thing - only he's sucking up all the energy himself, and also rounds up all the people and steals them. Satellites show the area as a big white blank because they can't read it, the army sends in planes and tanks and discovers that Arago (the villain) can take control of them.

Not exactly the same, no. *g*

Brainy created the material itself by accident - he was trying to increase the metal's density, and accidentely "degravitised" it. When Lyle bumped his head off it, he thought to use it for flight rings.

There's no evidence it's "psychosensitive" at all post-boot. Although the rings should possibly be stuck on rather than off come to think of it...

I confess that the flight rings are one of my favorite bits about the legion, but they do seem underdeveloped a little bit. If they're purely an antigravity metal, why don't they rip the fingers right off? When you lift a 180 man in the air by one finger, you have problems. Also, how are they controlled? I asked around a lot, did all the research I could, and didn't find much.

I feel they have to have some sort of mental control device, and that they are designed to provide a limited anti-gravity field, rather than merely a strong anti-grav pull of their own.

But I think that's just me.

Gail

Well we couldn't have that. Why would we need a bunch of Fingers Fall Off Boys, when we already have Arms Fall Off Boy?

Science fiction or super heroes? I prefer Soap Operas personally Oh and I don't mind a good dollop of Science thrown in.

I wonder how an eleventh century person would view mobile phones, cars, tv, processed foods and modern buildings? With that in mind I think the Legions science needn't be too exact as who know what developments will happen in the next 1000 years? It's great when it fits neatly into current scientific views but it doesn't really NEED to IMO. Who said (something similar to) that any advanced science would look like magic to those not used to it? Is this why magic is acceptable to the 31st Century native? Where is the dividing line between science and magic anyway?

Back on subject - Men in tight fitting costumes work for me too though

(Arthur C.) Clarke's Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

--------------------
1st Corollary: "Any technology which is distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced"

Yes, but in the DCU (Legion included), there is a real dividing line.

Even if they occasionally act the same, as with the GLs

Jya.

I like science fiction as much as the next one, but I like it to be nicely integrated into the story in question. *nods emphatically*

I don't like getting bludgeoned with tech in a story where said tech is considered just as normal as we consider refrigerators and televisions ...

So, I suppose that i would like to see a retreat from robot invasions, teleportation technology and other tech-heavy things, and more emphasis on the characters in the Legion.

I've seen enough about the machinery. I want to read about the people now. *chuckles*


Tai

I prefer a mix of SF and super-heroics in the Legion. I will admit to being awed by how some new techy gizmo works. And I'm reading comics for the escapism that is the cape-and-cowl set. That being the case, Gail's doing a great job with her story here.

She has a knack for writing characters, defining them in a brief moment that moves the story along. Look at Chuck take command on Legion World (which by the way is my fav LSH moment to date!) Seeing Umbra smack Brainy around and use her powers was interesting, and we've all come to appreciate Trudy with only two issues of narration. This is why I read comics, for the amazing characters you can't find in the average Clancy/Crichton/Collins/Conroy novel.

Given the fantastical nature of comics, there's automatically some suspension of disbelief. With only 22 pages in a chapter, I'm accepting of brief explanations for things like futuristic tech and superpowers. I'd rather see how our heroes struggle and overcome obstacles than understand Garth didn't die from the lighting beasts' attack.

That's the biggest challenge facing Legion writers today. The massive history of the Legion's universe is daunting, and that fans can quote it makes it difficult for a writer to create suspense. It's up to us to accept some of the writing at face value.

And just oogle the pretty lights when they do work.