Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes The Worst Moments of the 5YL Legion

In part it was an idea out of left field, and from what I read, Giffen is very interested in that sort of thing. But also, that it meant getting to go roughly where he wanted with Element Lad without having to kill Erin along the way.




Ye Olde Companion pretty much repeats what's on the blog. One thing though is "You'd have to talk with Al if you get the chance, because I'm relating something second hand..." It's a reminder that Giffen was having separate dialogues with the team, and that ideas would come and go between them all.

So what he might have discussed with T&M got changed as a result of a later chat with Gordon over art. Another example would be Rond staying alive, when he was supposed to get bumped off by Mordru (or minions of). Mary Bierbaum convinced Giffen to keep him alive. So we got that great Rond/ Laurel/Querl triangle. I wonder how that turned out?

I just read that, and was a little surprised. Actually, I was surprised that he didn't just look it up. But they were really fans of the Adventure era and perhaps that just shows to what extent that was. I think they did like the non humanoid members as a visual cue for the team of the future though.

That doesn't change my mind that TB was being evasive. I mean, for him to imply that only phobic people were offended...jeez. More to the point, for a story to offend both lovers and haters shows how muddled its execution was.

I wasn't offended in anyway but then I wasn't particularly vested in the character. Knocking her off for me would have been the more powerful story because of EL's loss. I wouldn't have missed her.

I did like her first appearance though.

Of all the things reminded so far, I think my list is up to:

Sun Boy
KK Jr.
Superboy references.

"I don't think anyone knew exactly how we were gonna do that, but as the issues progressed and the storyline developed, I guess Keith got more and more of an idea of what he was going to do..."

There's a few from al-to keith-to us bits under that to show how the process worked.

In my opinion, K**th always muddles his ideas in execution, even his good ideas.

My worst moment:

Issue 54

1) The Adult Legion (as distinguished from the Batch SW6 Legionnaires) take entirely new codenames, and new uniforms, including masks, in order to hide from the U.P.

Unfortunately, everybody in the U.P. immediately (before the issue even ends) figures out who they are. But they don't come up with another plan; they just keep the new code-names, costumes, masks, and pretend they are hiding, etc., for absolutely no reason.

2) This is the point at which 5YL stopped making even a little bit of sense. In the very, very beginning, much of the plot was character-driven. After Issue 54, Stuff just Happens.

Honorable Mention: The Death of Everybody. Blok, Sun Boy, Dawnstar, Element Lad, Laurel Gand, etc. etc.

When a medieval farmer dies at age thirty, when the life expectancy is thirty-five, that is a tragedy.

When 10% of the team dies at or before age thirty, when the life expectancy is one-hundred-plus, something is very, very wnorg.

I agree with most of this....the new codenames/costumes was when this series well and truly jumped the shark for me.

Other ideas COULD have been interesting but were so badly handled the potential was never filled. I find it really hard to believe that nobody recognized or tried to help Dawny while Bounty was happily possessing/mutilating her...and from memory Brainy knew Brin was Furball the whole time but let everyone treat him like a dumb animal...for reasons. There were definitely some really bizarre plot/characterisation choices.

I love Laurel Gand though. For me she's definitely one of the elements that worked very well.

It wasn't a bad idea per se, but it just came out of left field. So abrupt, and without warning. A shame too because I think the issue where it happened was very well-executed in terms of poignancy. Yet it felt so much like destruction for shock"s sake.

And it's also a tad troubling how no Legionnaires died even though 2 billion people did. I don't expect them to sacrifice their lives needlessly, but many of the 2 billion specifically volunteered to stay behind...

I never got the "destruction for shock's sake" I think because as you mention, the execution of the story for me would overwhelm any such speculation if it had been in my opinion, poorly set-up and to me it did seem a natural flow from what had gone on before. They were either going to be able to reverse the damage, which would have been either heroic, clever or deus ex machina, according to the writing skills or the Earth was done for.

But ultimately, it was the execution of the story that has this on my keeper list. It's a frequent re-read. Legion history for me would be less without it.

Oh god, those new costumes and codenames were terrible:

I take it the point of the new costumes/new codenames was to try to reintroduce more traditional super-heroics into the title, but, yeah, it was pretty much a failure.

yeah I think I would add that to my list.

I haven't read 5YL since it was first published so I'm speaking from how it appeared to me at the time. For me, blowing up Earth was the worst moment of a dismal story. It didn't matter to me that it was a natural outcome of the story, because the story was written to reach that awful outcome. It was destruction for shock's sake. That's when that era jumped the shark (not really an adequate phrase) as far as I was concerned. Up till then it had been like watching a horror story that you anticipate will finally reach a redeeming conclusion. But after that I didn't have faith that anything good was coming afterwards.

In a recent poll here I actually picked 5YL as my most memorable part of Legion history, but not because I loved it. As the series developed I kept thinking, "This could work in a piece of fiction that will have a conclusion, but when you're working with an ongoing series, what do you do once you've trashed everyone and everything?"

I should re-read it some day, just to see if I feel differently.

The blowing up of Earth was Giffen's "screw you" to the title really. Which just adds another nail in the coffin of who was running the editorial ship at the time.

Keith has some great Ideas and can really spin some yarns, but he seems to do better with a co-plotter that shaves the edges off some of his crazier stuf. I think he did great with DP. I think he did great the first Legion run. I think he did okay with the Suicide Squad. I hated his heckler and similar stuff. I enjoyed his JL. But the last two runs on Legion were death and death and death and when he got tired of that, he did some death.

Legion has had death before, but damn...

But Rick, Karate Kid could have taught some kids in Japan when he visited. Those kids would have grown up and travelled. Giffen had to be sure.

Definitely worth complaining about, though I'd point out that it's a trend that really started with v3.

I'd forgotten just how much death and destruction there was. For those who first read this monthly, it had to be agonizing. I picked up the issues after being away for a year so it was more like reading a short story in an afternoon.

If the ending of Earth was destruction for shock's sake, what was the motivation for writing such a poignant story, let alone getting Death involved?

Blow it up out of the blue with no backstory, move on. That sounds more like destroying something just to try and shock the reader. This one seemed to me to be the result of a story and to set up a story, like them or not.

"Jumped the Shark" generally denotes a writer moving beyond the bounds of suspension of disbelief.

I think the phrase we are searching for here is "writers ceased to care about the book".

Blok's death, Vi's torture, etc., etc. Any one of those many painful stories was poignant enough for me. I'd had enough already. I remember my gut reaction when I saw the page of Earth exploding: "That's my HOME you're destroying!" At that moment I felt manipulated, like somebody was messing with me (and all Legion fans) for kicks. I didn't have the perspective at the time to appreciate it as part of a story arc that I was supposed to be glad I read.

But as I mentioned earlier, it's high on my list of the most memorable Legion stories.

Execution-wise I agree with you, as that one single issue where Earth actually does blow up is still a very memorable and treasured issue.

Now set-up wise... I should reread to be sure, but my main criticism is that there didn't seem to be enough in the preceding issues to make the first page of Earth's destruction any less of a surprise. From memory (but if my memory is wrong I will gladly accept being corrected!) I recall almost nothing in the preceding issues that would point to Earth being in potential danger of blowing up. And THAT is what I meant by it coming from left field.

I wonder if any monthly readers felt utterly horrified. After spending so many issues invested in the liberation of Earth, we finally free it only to have it destroyed a few issues later.

To set up a story, definitely. I think the writers introduced a lot of interesting ideas that resulted from Earth's destruction - New Earth, being made up of linked domed cities, was a nice one and I especially enjoyed seeing the names of so many great modern-day cities. (Of course, many of the named cities ended up being destroyed, but it was still a nice touch using their names).

Almost all the excesses of 5YL, except for Superboy obviously, can be seen as attempts to write fanfic as canon. Despite the immediate motivation, the whole Shvaugn as a transsexual idea is exactly what you'd expect from a fandom which has had their idea that Jan is gay frustrated by Paul Levitz giving him a girlfriend. Proty/Garth was actually an idea that was around in the fan world before 5YL. And there's a rumor that Sun Boy was killed the way he was because a fan hated him.

I think I read two issues and gave up. It was the first time I stopped reading the Legion. I hated the art first and foremost but when they started killing off and really the way it was written made no sense to me at all.

Did anyone here ever read this series?