Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The New 52 and You - Thoughts on DC's last five years

So, Rebirth is trying to put an end to the DCnU without going right back to the pre-Flashpoint DCU we all miss. And yes, we all know the previous DCU had a lot of problems in terms of the content, but I can only speak for myself when I say they should've tried harder as writers instead of restarting everything from a new continuity.

I figured this thread can serve as a way for us to discuss our individual relationships with the Nu52, the things we managed to enjoy and the things that made us grind our teeth in our sleep because they were so horrible.

I'll go first.

There really isn't much from the Nu52 I can say left enough of a positive impact on me as a reader that I w€ish to keep those comics in my collection. Out of everything they've published since 2011, the list below would have to be the only books I still contain an interest in.

Action Comics (Grant Morrison's Run)
Batgirl
Batman Incorporated
Batwoman (Blackman & Williams' Run)
Convergence
Dial H
Gotham Academy
Larfleeze
The Movement
The Multiversity
National Comics
Prez
Secret Six
Starfire
We Are Robin

I'm considering getting rid of the rest of my DCnU issues to make room in my boxes because I don't see myself going back to re-reading any of them. I've already sold my Aquaman issues, my JLU arc with the Legion, and I'm trying to sell my Supergirl and Justice League comics.

To me, the Nu52 was a mess. I was initially a bit excited when they were first announcing the titles back in 2011, but that wore off very quickly when I had the chance to read the books. My biggest disappointments were Scott Lobdell's series, which did nothing to help sooth my contempt for DC's handling of the Titans characters.

I wanted nothing to do with Geoff Johns' comics, only buying Aquaman and Justice League whenever Joe Prado was working on the issues, but I admit I'm disappointed in the wasted potential from Johns' Justice League run. Of course, wasted potential is the only way to describe the Nu52. I remember that one piece Jim Lee did of the League which included cameos of supposedly future members. They were clearly planning to include Ryan Choi and some new version of Lady Luck from Quality Comics, but nothing happened. There was that new character Goldrush who quickly disappeared, and at the very least we got Rhonda Pineda as the new Atom only for her to be killed off in Forever Evil.

The majority of the comics felt like a disorganized mess to me. I can't understand what the people in charge of the company were thinking throughout the last half decade. Who in their right mind lets Rob Liefeld work on THREE books at the same time? They were trying too hard to appeal to new and old readers but balked on delivering anything that would keep them invested. I'm reminded of a "Daria" episode that featured the "edgy" editor and operator of a teen magazine, with Daria pointing out her readers would not be teenagers forever and a decent writer would offer them something they could hold on to after they get older. And that was the major problem with the DCnU. Older readers get turned off because their favorite characters exist in name only, and younger readers don't know how to feel because beyond the initial shock there's nothing to make them care.

Example: You take all the JSA characters and put them on a separate Earth, then you make them all 20 something men and women. Sure, you've got Alan Scott as a gay man, but at the cost of his long established gay son Obsidian no longer existing. And then you kill off Alan's boyfriend to give him motivation as a hero. On top of that, not only do the editors keep interfering with the writer (as much as I believe Robinson can still suck rusty barbed wire), but now the stories have little to do with the JSA characters and instead are about some stupid New Gods story that gets more and more depressing with each issue.

Beyond that, you had DC trying too hard to pander to the younger readers by making the books "Relevant" when they weren't insulting us with constant shock value.

Wonder Woman comes from a culture of unrepentant murderers and rapists. Superman becomes an online blogger because print media is dead. Superboy is the clone of Clark and Lois Kent's psychopathic son from an alternate timeline. The Teen Titans are suddenly on instagram. Superman and Wonder Woman begin dating. DC does the Hunger Games in Teen Titans. The Joker gets his face ripped off. Harley Quinn murders a bunch of children to make the Joker happy.

In fact, here's a list I made a few months ago of everything wrong I could think of regarding the Nu52: http://judedeluca.tumblr.com/post/138632341967/most-of-the-things-wrong-with-the-dcnu

Not to mention how so many of the costumes were just plain ugly.

But the worst offense to me was how clear to me that DC was using this reboot as an excuse not to put in the effort needed to fix a lot of the damage they caused in the last few years, especially with the Titans. I feel the only reason Geoff Johns went along with this was because they let him continue Green Lantern mostly unaltered.

Why did I hate the majority of the DCnU personally? It was boring and offensive. I felt like most of the stories made little sense, and the continued rampant blood, gore, and misery made the bad taste I still had in my mouth worse. If asked if I wanted the old DCU back at the cost of the DCnU my gut reaction remains "Yes. Burn it all."

That doesn't mean there weren't some things about the DCnU I didn't enjoy. Mainly, it was the less mainstream and less "edgy" comics that had staying power with me. You may have noticed most of the books I mentioned in my "good" list were written by Gail Simone and Grant Morrison.

I don't believe it's right to judge the characters who debuted after the Nu52 by the concept itself. Starling, Knightfall, Element Woman, Rhonda Pineda, the Movement, Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz, Harper Rowe and Duke Thomas, Nelson Jent and Manteau, Marella, the Gotham Academy kids, Porcelain, the Court of Owls, Strix, Darla Dudley, Bunker, Alysia Yeoh, Val Zod, all of them could've easily worked in the old DCU. Of course, there're also missteps like Harvest, Crux, that awful new Joker's Daughter, Suzie Su, Mazahs, and Pandora.

National Comics and the Movement could've been really something. The former felt like DC's attempt at their own "Pilot Season" comics like Top Cow does, and the Movement managed to feature a diverse cast of teen characters who weren't unlikable and wallowing in their own misery. That's also the reason I suggest Gotham Academy. It feels like DC can only work with teen characters when they aren't in the Teen Titans. Thinking on it now, I'm starting to feel like We Are Robin is DC's attempt at doing a more "mainstream" version of the Movement by using a recognizable character name.

If I had to pick between Batgirl runs, I'd still pick Gail Simone's run over the current one mainly because of that horrible transmisogynist issue the current team did. I'd still prefer to read what Gail was going to do with Cassandra Cain, but Gail's work on the book remains fresh in my head because the supporting cast and the villains are more interesting than the ones in the current run. Plus, it's pretty clear the only reason Gail wanted that assignment was because she didn't trust anyone else to get their hands on Barbara Gordon. I mean, with everything else that was out at the time can you blame her?

Dial H and Prez were a lot of fun because they felt like more competent attempts at the "Vertigo" approach. Dial H was very meta and went to places other DC books wouldn't with making the central characters a white guy who didn't look like Bruce Wayne and a heroine who was in her sixties. Prez started off cynical but felt more optimistic as it went on and I'm happy it's coming back to complete the story.

That's my take on the DCnU. An overall mistake that at the very least brought out some interesting characters, but characters that could've done just as well in the DCU without a reboot.

Only read some of the New52 because my local library had the collections, but it was enough for me to come up with this theory: http://gorogues.tumblr.com/post/118826913362/why-the-new52-is-broken

...and this article in Vulture states: "The New Co-Chief of DC Superhero Movies Is Big On Hope and Optimism"

They mean Geoff Johns.

Bwah-Hah-Hah-Hah-Hah

http://www.vulture.com/2016/05/geoff-johns-dc-films.html

Did like Dial H, though. Wish there had been more of it.

Compared to Zach Snyder's viewpoint, just about anything would be more hopeful and optimistic?!

Maybe in the movies, Johns can make up for the way his future for the assorted Corps got almost immediately unravelled, culminating in the almost literal destruction of hope in the DCU. I'd gotten back into GL fandom because of Johns... and quit in disgust because of Relic and the aftermath.

I only bought Johns' last issue because Joe Prado worked on it. Besides that, I was only buying New Guardians to support Nei Ruffino.

I had no idea what happened to the Blue Lantern Corps until a couple of years later.

The premise didn't kill it for me, it was the actual stories themselves. They were just all so incredibly lackluster. Pocket reviews of what I read:

JLU - Wasted potential in all it's incarnations. I thought the "Mission: Impossible" riff in the last few arcs was a fun idea, but by then it was too little too late

World's Finest - Was enjoyable when it focus on the interaction between Helena and Kara, but the plots were a little draggy and uninspired.

Action - Great read through Morrison's Run. Dropped after that.

Batman Inc - Not as fun as the pre-52, but still had its moments. A lot of it felt in retrospect like Morrison just tryign to wrap it up and put it behind him.

Red Lanterns/StormWatch/JL Dark - I followed Peter Milligan through all of these, and none of them worked. It certainly felt like his heart wasn't in them. Blah.

Legion of Super-Heroes - Talked to death already, but started poor, got worse.

Legion Lost - Directionless and disappointing.

Dial H - Loved this title, and it's a shame it got lost in the shuffle.

Demon Knights - Started Strong with Cornell, but fizzled as it went.

Animal Man - Never gelled with me. Lemire seemed to want to retread Morrison and it really didn't work.

Swamp Thing - Snyder tried too hard to respect Moore but change everything and it suffered for it.

Frankenstein - See Animal Man above, although a little better. The last few issues were rotten though.

Batman - Bailed after the first few issues. People really like Snyder, but I couldn't find the appeal.

Dr. Fate - Still digging it. The last few issues have picked up the pace a bit. Hope it sticks around.

So I was all ready to participate on this thread. But, as I read through your posts, I realized I had forgotten a good chunk of the New 52. And that says something.

Agh.

The Legion books were horrible. I had forgotten they had emerged from the New 52.

Batman Inc and Multiversity were good. Not the heights of Morrison but definitely head and shoulders above the rest of the line.

I forgot Dial H came out in New 52. This book was AWESOME SAUCE.

The Earth 2 book I wanted to love. Really. It fell apart IMO and it's been a slow climb to a legible storyline.

The Worlds Finest book with Huntress and Power Girl started strong but faded slowly.

I picked up Justice League, Demon Knights and Stormwatch for a few issues but fell out pretty quick. They were just not the most compelling stories and I felt like I didn't know the characters.

In the end, I only pick up Grayson, Midnighter, Martian Manhunter, Omega Men and Secret 6. And now they're all gone. So...

We shall see!

I think a lot of people on these boards had kind of a honeymoon period with the New 52 for a little while before the newness wore off and dissatisfaction set in. At first, I was really into Batman, Animal Man and Swamp Thing and found some things to like about Flash, Nightwing, Batgirl, Green Lantern, Batwoman, Catwoman and Aquaman.

All others that I tried (Green Arrow, Frankenstein, All-Star Western, Firestorm, GLC, GLI, New Guardians, Legion Lost, Resurrection Man, OMAC, Superman, Sword of Sorcery, Worlds' Finest, Earth 2) got stricken from my pull fairly quickly. Justice League got dropped like a hot potato after that first arc. It was as shallow a high-profile book as I'd ever seen.

Eventually, I grew cold on and dropped all the books I kinda-liked. The books I really liked followed--Animal Man and Swamp Thing were unbearably snail-paced, and Batman's "Death of the Family" arc left me stone-cold. When Legion's and Dial H's cancellations were announced, I dropped every New 52 book and resolved that I was done with it after Legion and Dial H ended. I sold all of my New 52s (with the exception of those last two pretty much) back to my CBS and washed my hands of it. Since then, the only New 52 book I picked up is Secret Six. (It's a pale shadow of the previous volume of S6, but it's pretty good.)

For the record I only kept the Legion issues for the sake of my Legion collection. New 52 Legion was pretty much a dumpster fire.

Will I try Rebirth? I don't know. I'm keeping my ears to the ground. I'd love to buy and enjoy DC books with characters I love. I'm kind of intrigued by Rebirth Green Arrow and some of the others, but I'm more afraid of being burned again. I mean, even pre-New 52 DC was in a state of decline, so that's far from ideal and still saddled with the same terrible leadership. But if there's a rebirth Legion on the horizon, that would be hardest to resist.

The New 52 prompted something I didn't think possible: I stopped buying comics altogether.

I had a couple months where I didn't pick up ANYTHING. I thought it was just me
No one in my family could believe it

Ditto. Haven't bought a monthly book since Dial H, Legion and Threshold were simultaneously cancelled. First time in thirty years.

Between 2 or 3 of us, I got to look at all of the first issues.

My buddy kept reading Batman and Flash, so I read around 7 issues of those before not bothering. They were the last apart from the main Legion book.

Batman & Robin, Swamp Thing and Batwoman were ones I wanted to do decently, but again, I didn't get far past the half dozen issues.

Over half were below average quality, which doesn't say much about a big relaunch event. Just under a dozen didn't even make it to the second issue.

Others, like Green Lantern & Aquaman were OK. But I expect more form a comic than just being OK. There are good reads out there I can spend my pennies on instead.

I didn't get any of the subsequent relaunches (I don't think). I did read all of the more recent sneak peaks. The poor quality meant I didn't bother with the books.