Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The 2nd All Avengers Thread

Lardy, what I personally consider ironic about Eric Masterson's brief Avengers tenure is that I liked him a lot better there, as written by Bob Harras, than as written by his creator, Tom DeFalco, in both Thor and in Thunderstrike.

Now, I have to qualify that by saying that I was never a regular follower of either series when DeFalco was the writer. The few times I read Eric outside of the Avengers, his intended everyman persona seemed overbearing, even borderline obnoxious at times. I liked Harras's take on him better, but I'd be spoiling things to come in future Avengers issues if I elaborated further at this time.

The other irony is that when Eric was written out of the Avengers so that the Real Thor could return and Eric could become Thunderstrike, Harras basically had Dane Whitman take over the everyman role on the team. And back then, I loved the results! However, in 20-20 hindsight I have far more mixed feelings. Again, I'd be spoiling what lies ahead in this run if I were to elaborate right now.

To address some of your other points, I was a regular reader of Avengers from 356 through 384. And just as Spider-Man's guest appearance in 237 was what brought you aboard the Avengers, a guest appearance from Black Panther in 356 was what brought me in.

I felt at the time, and still feel today, that it was unfair for the Busieks of the world to say that the creators of this Avengers Era were trying to X-Men up the team. I was reading both series at the same time and felt like each team had its own distinctive flavor. Moreover, even if Harras WAS deliberately trying to do just that, the results were PLEASING TO ME -- which, in my opinion, is what matters most.

Re: Avengers 344.......

I see what you mean about the art looking rough in spaces. In my Omnibus, the colors are also washed out on some pages--not sure if it's so in the floppies or a flaw in the collection transfer. The main page I noticed this is when Herk first comes charging in. Being that Palmer was also the colorist, this reinforces your speculation about his work not being up to par. Perhaps he had the worst of the deadline crunch this issue?

I loved the main fight between Dane and the Swordsman. It did make me wonder about how Dane's new energy sword works. Apparently, it can be solid enough to clash with an actual sword but ethereal enough to penetrate a man's body to deliver only a neurological disruption. It may be exaplained by Swordsman's weapon being able to fire energy bolts, which may make its energy qualities compatible to Dane's. It was fun to watch, as were the tantalizing clues that this might actually be the Swordsman returned.

Seeing Magdalene and Herk clash on a second read made me think that this might be how a clash between Herk and Big Barda might go. Magdalene has some small resemblance in her design to Barda, and her fierce protection of Swordsman reminds me of Barda toward Scott Free. Barda's weapon is much shorter, but I could see her being a match for Herk herself. That was fun for me as was the likelihood that getting hurt like this by a woman probably damaged his male pride--hence the quote you shared. That's my take, anyway.

I liked the Jarvis/Marilla encounter better than you. Jarvis is so respected and given no oversight that it is funny to see someone come in and just not be impressed at all with him. The "skin and bones" cracks were pretty chuckleworthy, as were the criticisms of his cooking.

The OGS asides were definitely distracting, especially as the storyline was omitted completely from the Omnibus. I've yet to read OGS, but I do want to some day. But it's a distraction and a gap in a collection of the Gathering Saga as is. I do love, however, Epting's drawing of the ship and the spacescape in that first aside. The other OGS asides were well drawn, also.

I will say that Proctor looks VERY '90s! That's not entirely a bad thing, but he's definitely a product of his time visually. He looks kind of like a cross between the Beyonder in human form and various characters that John Romita drew in his X-Men run. So Proctor isn't my favorite design, but I don't exactly hate it either. I'm trying to compare it to the person whose identity he is later revealed to be--there's some vague resemblance, but it's quite a stretch. I suppose that's good because there wouldn't be much mystery otherwise.

RE: Magdalene and Big Barda, I have it from reliable sources that that was precisely the creative team's intent. Kudos to you, Lardy, for spotting that straightaway!

RE: Jarvis & Marilla, fair enough. Your point about Jarvis being unaccustomed to having his authority undermined is valid and well taken.

RE: Proctor, again, fair enough. The JR comment made me chuckle -- I've learned to better appreciate a lot of his work (i.e. Thor) and some of it I always thought was perfect for him (Daredevil), but his X-Men runs, especially the second one, still look awful to me (legend has it that one of the associate editors in the X-Men office actually called out JR on the half-assed job he was doing!

I kinda wish there was something more to that blue/pink Kree divide, because of the 'Kree can't have mutants / super-mutates because of no Celestial genetic tinkering.' The Kree went and tinkered with early humans, to create the Inhumans, as part of experiments into how to A) potentially give themselves super-powered people, or B) at least create super-powered subject races to use as weapons.

I always felt like the blue Kree were the ancestral Kree, and the 'pink Kree' were hybrids of human and Kree, so that these 'pink Kree' *could* have super-human powers, as some of them, like Mar-Vell, clearly did. (It would certainly be an interesting explanation for why the blues were so nasty to the pinks, even if, many centuries later, the rank-and-file blue Kree would have no idea at all of why the pink Kree looked different anymore, and why some pinks like Mar-Vell felt more at home on Earth, than Hala...)

And then various *blue* Kree appeared with superhuman powers (and not just from amazing tech, like Ronan's 'Univeral Weapon'), even before the Supreme Intelligence's metahuman gene bomb thingie, and I gave up trying to make sense of it. Apparently blue Kree *could* have super-powers, even without the Supreme Intelligence's tinkering, so what the hell was it thinking, blowing up 90% of his race so that the survivors could have *slightly more* superhumans than before?

Good grief, just outfit them all with Universal Weapons, or battlesuits using advanced Kree tech 1000 years beyond what Tony Stark uses? Or learn psychic powers like telepathy and telekinesis, that it's already been established that non-mutant folk like Mantis, Moondragon and Marvel Boy can straight up *learn* from aliens? Or run a couple thousand recruits through magical boot camp (a Kree Hogwarts!), and field a bunch of mystics or summon and bind a bunch of demons or mindless ones or N'garai (cause *that* never goes horribly, horribly wrong, and ends up becoming the basis for a new story!).

There's like, *at least* a dozen power sources in the marvel universe that should have been explored before 'bomb my own species and hope some of the survivors get super-powers!'

I did enjoy the line up during these days, and wish Dane Whitman, in particular, had better storylines then, and was treated a hell of a lot better *now.* (His last solo mini had him derided and badmouthed by the likes of Thor and Black Panther, as he was reduced to the same sort of mostly-incompetent screw-up, held in contempt by his fellow heroes, that Clint Barton and Scott Lang have been reduced to in their latest minis.)

The phrasing here makes it seem like you wish Dane had better storylines during this run. Maybe you truly meant before AND after (the latter is stated pretty clearly in your post above), but I don't know how any Avenger could ask for a better role than Dane got during the Gathering storyline. To me, he is clearly the romantic male lead and the most important male character. You could argue he is THE main character of this entire run! Maybe some don't find his role and all of his actions and emotions to their taste, but this is the Black Knight, front and center, in the kind of role I always wanted to see him in before I finally read this Omnibus! His potential as a lead character is finally realised here, and I'm stoked to talk more about it as we go further.

"reliable sources"? I would be curious to know more about them!

I'm curious if the Barda connection ever occurred to you before having this apparent confirmation. If you hadn't been familiar with her at the time of your originally experiencing this run, maybe not. I think I may not have noticed until I reread the issue a few days ago to provide commentary here. Obviously Magdalene is a lot different, with the similarities being fairly superficial but noticeable, but IYKYK.

I also like that this subplot gives him something to do other than be a hostage or a victim or just to show that he's there to greet people and serve them food and make the expected dry comment.

I'm unsure whether Jarvis' mother was still alive or had ever been seen on camera, but it would have been funny if Harras had her visit and meet Marilla. I'm not sure if it would be funnier to see her going at it with Marilla in her son's defense or having her take Marilla's side and humiliating him more! "Oh, dear, Jarvis--you ARE skin and bones!"

I'm not sure of when his second run began or whether I was still with the book to know anything about the quality. I certainly enjoyed his first run, but having reread part of it recently in Marvel Masterworks, it's surprising that such a fast artist had many more fill-ins than I remembered. His run was relatively short, too, though longer than Paul Smith's to that point in time. I would definitely take Cockrum, Byrne or Smith ahead of JRJr, though.

AVENGERS 349 (Cover Date July 1992)

Reviewing this issue is bittersweet for me, knowing as I now do that not only will the subplot Harras seeds in it will remain unresolved when Epting leaves, but also that its eventual resolution will contribute to my decision to stop reading the Avengers with issue 384.

What makes it even more painful is that it's a subplot involving Hercules, a character I love, and the Olympian Gods he is related to -- specifically, his half-brother Ares, God of War, and his stepmother, Hera. To see Epting get a chance to draw Olympus -- even for just a few panels -- makes my heart skip a beat. It's so beautiful, yet so poignant in its ephemerality.

But let's start from the start -- the issue opens with Black Knight taking the Avengers Skycar out for a joyride, with Crystal and Hercules as passengers. Dane just wants to blow off some steam because the last several days have been frustrating. A thorough investigation of the remains of Marissa Darrow's apartment has turned up nothing to clue in the Avengers about her disappearance, or about her resemblance to the team's enemy Magdalene. Now, there's blowing off steam and there's reckless endangerment of yourself and your passengers -- Dane obviously crossed that line long before we came in. Rather predictably, the Skycar begins to malfunction, and the trio of Avengers are only saved by Hercules using his big, tough demigod hands the way cyclists use their feet to stop an out-of-control vehicle.

The background changes to become the Olympian Pool of Revelations. Hera and Ares are doing what Marvel Universe Gods usually did in their classic portrayals, being decadent and petty and vindictive while sniping at each other. Both are annoyed by Hercules and are feeling bored enough and mean enough to place a wager on which one of them can bring Hercules the most sorrow.

Two days later, Dane's inspection of the Skycar reveals that sabotage took place just before his ill-fated joyride. He also suspects a connection between the sabotage and the Swordsman/Magdalene/Marissa mystery; Dane plans to corroborate his theory by comparing the energy signatures from Marissa's apartment to the energy traces on the Skycar.

In strides Hercules, with Crystal and Eric Masterson close behind, to announce to Dane, Vision, and Black Widow that he has been invited to visit a children's hospice to cheer up the patients for a while; Crystal and Eric have agreed to accompany Herc.

Crystal earnestly invites Dane to join them, citing the Knight's friendliness to her baby daughter Luna, but Dane turns down the invite. The reason he gives is that he needs to keep working on the damaged Skycar, but the real reason is that he still feels awkward about his crush on Crystal. Vision also turns down Crystal, saying that he fears his appearance would probably frighten the kids (probably not, but is an ugly look compared to the classic red, green, and yellow.)

Later, at the children's hospital, Herc and Eric are being gracious guests and putting on a show for the kids, while Crystal chats with Taylor Madison, a pretty blonde hospital volunteer who organized this event. Then, Ares and Hera arrive at the hospital, invisible to all present -- including Herc and Eric -- and with evil intent. Ares's plan turns out to involve him possessing Eric and assaulting Hercules relentlessly, in the hopes that Herc will snap and kill Eric in a rage. When one of the kids fails to evacuate the scene because his teddy bear got left behind, Taylor bravely rushes to rescue him, while Hera cryptically gloats to herself that Taylor is now becoming an innocent trapped in the world of the Gods (something which the resolution to this subplot, which I'll get to at the end of this review, will contradict.) Predictably, Ares threatens Taylor and the kid, and Hercules, after tumbling to the fact that his friend has been possessed by Ares, rallies to resume the fight and save the mortals from harm. Crystal, whom Ares had knocked unconscious a short while back, is now recovered and ready to help any way she can. Herc grabs Eric's wrist and begins smashing the Uru hammer on the ground. At Herc's prompting, Crystal adds her own elemental powers to the resulting lightning bolt, which then strikes both Herc and Eric, finally freeing Eric from Ares's possession. Ares, in turn, becomes visible to others, and Hera makes herself visible. Hercules furiously scolds his relations for endangering mortal with their foolish games. Hera merely laughs and teleports herself and Ares back to Olympus. Eric quips, "Sheesh, and I thought I had family problems" while Hercules makes apologies to Taylor, who is as concerned for his well being as she is for everyone else's. In Olympus, Ares grumbles that his plan may have faiiled, but Hera didn't accomplish anything, either. Hera replies that her plan is far more subtle than his, and we the image in the Pool of Revelations confirms that Taylor has something to do with Hera's scheme.

In case anyone does want to see this subplot play itself out beyond the issues I am re-reading, I will put the spoilers in a box:


So, as I said, I like this issue, but it's tainted. I do, however, give Harras the benefit of the doubt that his original plans were far different from, and far better than, what eventually saw print. And, to wrap up this review on a positive note, Epting & Palmer turn in another excellent job on the art. Just look at Crystal's sweet facial expression when she asks Dane to come to the children's hospital with her -- I ask you, how can anybody see her drawn that way and not love her?