Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Calling The Roll of THE LEGION #37... spoilers

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Anybody else into the Olympics?
I enjoyed the heck out of the opening ceremonies

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CALLING THE ROLL is a character by character look at the latest issue featuring the team of the future, THE LEGION OF SUPERHEROES.

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Let the roll be called!

TIMBER WOLF: Is 'the wilds' a clue to Wolf's origin... or a nickname for a part (or all) of Rimbor?

Healing Factor? Guess it's about time the Legion borrowed a few details from the X-Men, instead of the other way around. Puts Brin's battle with the Fatal Five in a new light, doesn't it?

DEVIL: Has the makings of a recurring villainess for the LSH. Maybe *she* could helm a new Devil's Dozen!?

CANARY: Do I see a jealous lesbian hissy fit in the near future? I think we're meant to like her a bit... but I don't yet. Maybe it's her apparent insecurity (though she could be as drugged as Nura).

PERSUADER: Hope we get more of him and his daughter next issue...

PINTER: About to operate on Winema (and others, perhaps) with G'ymll coaching, I'll bet. Or else he'll join the 'anarchists'.

SUMMING UP: Here I thought Nightwind's debut last issue was a fun and exciting surprise. Yay for Drura! INFECTIOUS LASS IS BACK! INFECTIOUS LASS IS A LEGION CADET! AND A RESPECTED ONE! YAY!

Gail, you don't have ANIMAL LAD, GAS GIRL or the *real* Jan Arrah, ELEMENT LAD, in your bag of goodies, do you?

This was actually a wise place to surprise us with Drura, since part three of four's sometimes do 'mark time' a bit. That happens with the stories of Jo/Tinya and the Persuader/Lialla here, but there's compensation in the glimpse of Karadhia and, of course, DRURA!

I was a bit disappointed in the insects. I'm not sure why. Too 'mindless monstery', maybe. Where was the telepathic napalm? Is that why Saturn Girl was off on her own... wherever she was?

Next issue isn't oversized, is it? I wish it were, as there's lots more I'd like to see from this creative team.

Again, INFECTIOUS LASS IS BACK! A big 'WHHHHOO-OOOO!' for her cadet debut (she *was* in the tryout issue that introduced Umbra, Sensor and Magno, remember...).

Todd

I'm just going to make an [edited] repost from the other thread, then add reply-comments in at the end:

This issue left me completely cold. This isn't the Legion I know.

Sure, they're heroic (I don't mean in the sense that they've suddenly become vampires or villains off panel or somesuch), but none of the characters "feel" like the characters I've come to know over the course of the post-boot. None of [what we see of] the Legionnaires this issue "sound" like themselves. And I'm a post-boot fan. The pre-boot was over before I started collecting comics. I'm not going to be cheering just because you dropped Infectious lass in.

We start with Spark spouting a bunch of technobabble in a fight that better have some major impact on the Metropolis story to be worthwhile. If we're not going to get an in-depth examination, I'd rather not see it at all. Honestly - "show, don't tell" is all very good, but unless you have the time and space to properly show it, better to just tell, as on Buffy's The Zeppo.

And Spark has, for some reason, changed her costume to have Cockrum rather than Sprouse lightning bolts. ON page two, Cos' shoulder thingies have shot up in size, and Thom looks about 35. That's a new power signature for KQ2. And is T-Purple really sticking her elbow in a mouth that looks like it's about to bite it off? And while I'm not objecting to Jarth weaing Garth's suit (albeit, again with the Cockrum bolts), since I've been asking for that for months, some explaination would be nice as to why he didn't and now he does would be nice.

Okay, M'On and SB in those costumes takes the story down 10 points apiece (ask anyone, I've been ranting about those for months).

"long range satellite scans produce only static." This was one of the things I was chalking up in my "bad science" column in last issue's thread (Although it was previously from #35, not #36 - And I do apologise about not doing that reply. It got kinda out of control, and my "science time"'s been taken up with revison for exams. The other big bugbear I found was the "organic magnetic material." Not that organics can't be magnetic, but there's no way for any entirely on-board system to create enough magnetic lift on Earth to hover. And even predictating that it could, it wouldn't be stable, but tossing around randomly). Basically, the satellite scans, unless you're saying they're all working on some pseudo-science energy, work on EM radiation. Light. So basically, are you saying no light can get in or out with that? After all, why else worry about those radiation filters being off?

And "every Legion cadet?" Oh my God, they killed Babbage! And hey, no Roboticans in Metropolis to get Spiked, come to think of it? Since the only mention of actual directly-caused deaths are from impants in organics.

I honestly thought we'd get another character narrating these two issues, given that we had a "sign off" at the end of last issue (more a comment than an actual complaint though). But Brainiac's up, about and has tidy hair again? So he's completely pulled himself back together it seems.

Tinya not wearing a touchstone still rankles. And BTW, where's Umbra vanished to? She appears on precisely zero panels this issue?

the exposition's fair enough. But TW's reminding me more of Wolverine with every passing second. And why the frell is there no blood coming from the entry wound?

Val's acting more like himself this issue, thank grife. Although given that he's mostly fight-scene

So, where'd that rip come from, since the same spot was unripped on the previous page, and TW has the missing spot of fabric? And Logan's getting better.

I still don't see Val making a crack like at the top of p13. And again on p16.

Like I said last issue - Nightwind's fair enough, since she's actually important to the story. As is Drura this issue. But why are NONE of the cadets those we saw in L25 (& 32)? If you're going to have "extras" in the cadets, at least have familiar extras.

As evil plans go, it makes sense. If slightly stereotypical. And shouldn't really work, given that Shikari (who must be with the Kharadia team) managed to pull Sensor & herself out of a malfunction-related tailspin back in Dream Crime when the probablity of their "bio-patterns in transit being corrupted or lost" was "++100%" and they made it okay. It might be rough, but they should surely be able to redirect.

Fact is, I like my series serial. This isn't following on from the DnA run. At best it's side-stepping it in favour of giving them preboot (or Marvel, in one case) personality infusions. At worst, it's completely ignoring it apart from a few token things like colouring Garth silver-blue. And I'm the kid who screamed at the telly whenever a cartoon decided its viewers weren't intelligent enough, or had such bad memories that they wouldn't notice that the thing last ep and the thing this ep completely contradict each other. And I hated the New Adventures of He-Man for suddenly having a different sword, then taking a wrecking ball to the whole thing.

Point is, I don't like big sudden changes, or worse big, sudden, off-panel changes (or loads of little ones, which amount to the same thing IMO), and never have. And if you try and explain it by "Oh, that was yoinks ago, even if it was last issue", I think that's worse than no explaination at all.

The opening and closing ceremonies send me to the land of nod. Over-syncronised bunk.

It would have been nice if we'd had some sort of rational explaination of why he wore Jan's suit for so long (even in the scene with Imra @ the end of #33 would have been a good place to swap), and now he doesn't. If we're not going to, I'd have rathered see him stay in the Jan suit.

even for her, a whole planet would have been a bit much - but surely she could have done something more than shoot some sort of laser (?) - since that's a completely new power signature for her, as I mentioned.

See above

Doubt it. Probably just some general doom-laden dialogue.

Weirdly, the Bouncing Boy (you can see it behind Kon & Lar). Why she's piloting Chuck's personal ship, rather than a generic legion shuttle, is anyone's guess.

And why? Even his hair's tidy. Why such a strain before, yet now he's absolutely A-OK. Is this some cheap plot to dump his implants?

Art errors like that abound in this issue - like the rip that suddenly appeared in Devil's costume, despite having left the scrap of fabric with TW.

Damn lack of touchstone....

I like some black in her look too.

Well, he's an immegrant to Rimbor, so it could be made to work I suppose.

Given some of the stuff in this arc, I'm expecting her to wake up as Dream Girl.

Sounds like a generic kids vs teachers refrain.

I'm more bugged about not seeing one cadet from the 21 in L25. And Babbage's existence being glossed over completely.

Neither here nor there to me, quite honestly.

Gail... loved your Deadpool/Agent X. Bought Rose & Thorn, although that flagged badly toward the end. Got one issue of BoP and didn't bother going further.

But sorry, can't love yer Legion.

So, where are XS, SENSOR, SHIKARI, GATES, and KINETIX? In limbo, because their presence would serve only to dilute all the preboot homages. I'm surprised they didn't reinstate ANDROMEDA and put her in a blue and red uniform.

Next issue, every Legion character who ever existed, including the unrebooted and the dearly departed, will miraculously converge on Metropolis to save the day in the rip-roaring, homage-filled series finale! Either that, or everyone croaks.

The blatant homage stuff, the multitude of anomalies and the indeterminate lapse of time didn't sit well with me at first, but now I view this arc in an entirely different light, i.e., as an "adult" Legion tale set in a possible not-too-distant future (a future that's bound to be undone in September). That might not be an accurate reading at all, but the only way I can make sense of it -- or have fun with it -- is to assume none of it is "real".

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Edited: just to add a few more thoughts.


Mystery Lad wrote:
GARTH-IN-JAN: I guess the Livewire costume is a welcome sight. Not Gail's fault and I wouldn't expect this to be addressed in her storyline, but I'm pissed that the Garth/Jan situation is going to be left open-ended.

I hate to bring this up, but judging by the cover of the TT/Legion special, the Jan suit may be back with the rest of the DnA Legion next month. That HAS to be the end of it then, no? Unless Waid has a sadistic streak.


KID QUANTUM: Exactly what power is she using here? I'd think that her time-manipulation power would be the perfect one to face escalating evolution...

Maybe like Chemical King, she can speed up chemical reactions to cause spontaneous combustion, hence the blasts of fire. If it's an intentional riff on CK (whose powers have been compared to hers in the past), it's a real stretch.


TIMBER WOLF: Healing Factor?

A misstep on Gail's part, imo. Meant to be a tounge-in-cheek homage, I think, but many people interpreted it as a serious retcon.


DREAMER: Wake up, Nura! Oh, yeah... you haven't slept in a couple of years now...

I'm not sure I like Dreamer in the role of hapless victim after the pains DnA went through to empower her, and the conceit that her pre-cog powers somehow magnify Canary's is frankly difficult to swallow. Hopefully, Nura's "dreaming up" a plan to foil Devil. Or perhaps she wakes up at the end and we discover it's all a dream.


DEVIL: Has the makings of a recurring villainess for the LSH. Maybe *she* could helm a new Devil's Dozen!?

Devil's brand of outrageous hubris and campy villainy tends to overshadow everything else. In fact, she's so outrageous, she strikes me as "unreal".

CANARY: Do I see a jealous lesbian hissy fit in the near future?

That, or the old chestnut of the subservient villain turning the tables on his/her arrogant boss (as in the Devil's Dozen story, coincidentally or not). Remember Universo stroking Nura's face? I can imagine Canary doing the same behind Devil's back.

We don't really know what Canary is thinking, and we haven't actually seen Canary wield her powers (except on the cover). I presume she will let loose next issue, for better or for worse. I suspect that Canary is really Gail's personal "agent" in this arc.

Yeah. Unfortunately, I can't make that leap so easily. In the end, at best we've had five issues of inconsequential-fill-ins-that-wanted-to-be-something-more.

They should have let DnA have those extra three issues...

Well, it has to be serious, or TW's dead. And looks like he's not dying. Yet.

Yeah. But like I said, I'm dreading Dream Girl, rather than Dreamer, waking up here... would fit the pattern. After all, "time's passed," so obviously she could have had a personality transplant in the meantime...

Well, Canary's the one doing the Spike, remember. But yeah, table-turning (probably while Devil's thinking on it) in the last issue methinks...

Sanity or Madness wrote:
Well, it has to be serious, or TW's dead. And looks like he's not dying. Yet.

It doesn't have to be serious if it's not real. Moot point if Wolf lives or dies, methinks. Ditto for the other casualties -- Winema, Gym'll.

Yeah. But like I said, I'm dreading Dream Girl, rather than Dreamer, waking up here... would fit the pattern. After all, "time's passed," so obviously she could have had a personality transplant in the meantime...

... and the first thing she notices is a chipped fingernail.

But yeah, table-turning (probably while Devil's thinking on it) in the last issue methinks...

If true, Devil's "table" scene would actually make sense.

The appearance of INFECTIOUS LASS pretty much overrode the entire redt of the story for me, but I did enjoy the rest of the issue.

I like Todd's comment that years from now, folks might be clamoring for these no-name cadets to appear. Very true. And I'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen.

Gail's done well, VERY well, with this storyline. Too bad she wasn't given more issues to do.

For me, the art has been the weakest part of this story. #35 was okay (though only 25% Jurgens), but # 36 saw little if any Jurgens influence that I could tell. # 37 had a return to about 25% Jurgens influence that I could see.

I'd have rather Dan had done full pencils or let a total unknown do the arc instead.

Andy Smith has been a penciler of late, and I suspect he let his style overwhelm Jurgens'... The same thing happened to Dan's work on UNIVERSE ABLAZE, the Titans/LSH (non :rolleyes: )crossover, with Phil Jimenez... another strong penciler who for whatever reason took an inking gig.

I've seen the same thing happen with guitar players trying to teach bass... they may be proficient enough, but miss out on the nuances of someone totally committed to a given discipline.

Well, Dan's only been doing breakdowns anyway, rather than full pencils, which gives more room for Smith to express.

And I disagree with Lash here - I think it started fairly "Jurgensy", and has been getting progressively less so as the arc's worn on. By this issue, it's a hellavalot more Smith than Jurgens tho.

I kind of like Jurgens' art; you're not going to get the "FLASH & PIZAZZ" of a Coipel, but you do know what you will get: good, old-fashioned superhero fare with a pretty distinct look to the characters. Jurgens' distinct look is noticably absent to me in this arc.

As long as by "pretty distinct," you mean "all look the same."

And Jurgens' art changed somewhat around the time he did the Superman/Doomsday mini and Sensational Spider-Man (I'm not sure which came first). #35, the occasional blip aside, looked consistant with Jurgens' general look. #36 was less so, and #37 may have even been layouts rather than breakdowns, for all the Jurgens I see/

You may define "pretty distinct" as you see fit.

I have Superman/Doomsday, and it still looks like regular Jurgens to me. So did Titans/Legion, even with the heavy Jiminez influence.

Very little "regular Jurgens" in this arc, which we both seem to agree on.

I understand what you guys are saying, but just let me add that Dan's breakdowns are tighter than a lot of artists' full pencils. The pencilled stuff he did was gorgeous, really! He didn't slop these out, I assure you--his love for the Legion is all over the pages.

Gail

I wouldn't presume to comment on how much effort or influence Jurgens had on this arc, I just wanted to add that for whatever reason I *love* his work when teamed with Thibert (on LSH and Superman).

So how come you said Andy was to blame for flightringless 35?

Originally posted by Mystery Lad:
CHAMELEON: Ably fufills Brainy's charge, while slugging off a triple shuriken (sp? and use of word?) attack. How does Arrow get them back three panels after throwing them? Does he 'grow' them? Magically materialize them from a tesseract?

To make matters worse, after being hit in the arm/shoulder by the shuriken(?), we see Cham bleeding heavily. Yet a few panels later, he's no longer bleeding and there's nary a stain on his costume. (Since he can't morph, that loophole is shut tight.) I have to blame the editor as much as the artist.


Moebius Strip? Anyone care to hazard a guess about the tagline for the next issue? I've already used up my month's supply of rampant speculation credits.

Tromium, come on. He said he can't morph on one side. It's the other side where he was hit. It'd be a simple matter for Cham to close the wound. No need to blame the editor OR the artist. As for the stain, well, it's a thousand years from now.

Sanity, you seem to be taking these issues personally. I promise I didn't purposely write them to ruin your day, okay? PROMISE! I don't have Dan's pages right in front of me, so I don't remember if he remembered the rings--all I know is when we got the inked pages, they didn't have them. What I always say when someone's broken down over an issue of a book, any issue of any book, is don't continue to buy it. I'm not saying it to be snide, I'm dead serious. There are just too many great books out there to spend cash on one you don't like. And Waid's one issue away! We did the best we could, not for us, but for Legion fans, and as we've said, the response was overwhelmingly positive, but it's impossible to please everyone and there's nothing personal in it.


Lash, I think Dan is way underrated, certainly as a writer, but the versatility he can bring as an artist is really impressive. I'd love to see him do some darker things...he's said he wants to try a Vertigo book at some point, which I think would be great. His Superman/Aliens book was ROCKIN'!


Drake, totally understand! I'm a big Jurgens fan, and I see a lot of Dan in each issue...there's no question that the layouts and posing are all him, and a great deal of the facial expressions and backgrounds, but I agree that some other detail is more Andy, who is pretty dang talented himself.

Pov, interesting point about bass players...I'd never really thought of it that way.

Thanks, Lash! To be honest, I feel like writing the Legion was an honor, and it was simply a fun, fun thing to do. I've already told Waid that if they do a new Secret Files, I want in. I've been lucky enough to be talking with Mark at pretty much every stage, and when you guys see some of this art coming up, I think you'll be delighted.


Sanity, I totally agree about DnA. I wish they had been given the three issues they wanted. I specifically said I wouldn't take the book if they were being pushed off, but my understanding from talking to everyone involved is that they were ready to go (except for the three issues). I think they were ready for some new challenges. By the way, while I'm at it, let me say something I've said elsewhere a few times. I've been a fan of DnA since Resurrection Man, and when this Legion thing came up, I wrote them both to make sure they were cool with it before I accepted the assignment (I don't take books if someone is fired to make room). And I have to say, those guys are COMPLETE GENTLEMEN. Both of them are total pros, and gracious way beyond the call. They were totally encouraging and supportive. I really owe them a debt of gratitude, and those of you who are fans of theirs (who isn't?) can rest assured that they are both class acts all the way.


I just realized I'm doing this backwards.

SNORK!

Gail

Tromium, never have I gotten so many questions over a bit of dialogue as I have over that table.

No comment on the Dreamer stuff. Yet.

Mystery Lad, I did have to fight to get any Karahdia stuff in...originally, that sequence was seven pages. Maybe after the story's all done, I'll post the original script. But the sequence is there for a reason, you'll see.

"CHUCK TAINE & GEAR: aka the 'Exposition Express'." HA! Okay, guilty. But to be fair, something does happen to Chuck's confidence in nearly every sequence...


Now, regarding Infectious Lass...yeah, if I was writing the book, she'd be a full member. Her power, her look, and her character are all original and fun and interesting, and she's a complete underdog character. So maybe I can persuade Waid...

I like this thread!

Best,

Gail

Gail Simone wrote:
Tromium, come on. He said he can't morph on one side. It's the other side where he was hit. It'd be a simple matter for Cham to close the wound. No need to blame the editor OR the artist. As for the stain, well, it's a thousand years from now.

Gail, please keep in mind that elderly folk like myself can't remember what we read 5 minutes ago, much less what we read three weeks ago. A visual reminder would have helped. Excuse me while I look for my bottle of Aricept.

No comment on the Dreamer stuff. Yet.
Ah, so. Maybe I'll enjoy this even better than I thought.

Just means that it's twisted (it's a loop of paper with a permanent twist in it. Cut it in half along the middle of it, and you end up with a loop twice as long & half as wide.)

I suppose the loop bit could be taken as evidence for your theory.

Tromium, totally understandable... I tend to plot very very tightly, which means tons of notes and about fifty thousand rereads of every script. Even so, stuff does get through that just makes me want to slam my head against the wall til the goo comes out. You try and you try, but mistakes happen. In this case, I could have mentioned that he was closing the wound but I didn't think it was necessary at the time--might well have been wrong, since the mention of the side was last issue.

Next Legion story I do? WOODEN TABLE LASS!


Gail

On the other hand Gail, if you'd had Cham spouting "I will now morph my wound closed" it probably would've been much, much worse. You might have been able to phrase it more delicately but it's still a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

You should always have someone jump on a table from now on. It could be your "thing," and all our copies would shoot up in value as the first Gail Simone jump-on-table issue.

By the way, Sanity, I'm a huge Red Dwarf fan myself and your quote is a great one.

I love it because it's stupid and brilliant at once. That's always something I love.

Gail

matlock, truthfully, I really do hate anything that's purely exposition. If there had been an entertaining way to do it, fine, but then you're talking about taking up precious panel real estate--it's all a trade-off. I have a lot of respect for readers, but I think Tromium's comment shows that even readers paying close attention didn't have the information they needed in this particular issue.


And that's the deal, from now on...TABLE TOP TEAM UP! WORLD'S FINEST TABLE JUMP!

Gail

Gail, I was making a mountain out of a molehill. Your tight plotting is otherwise much appreciated and I'm betting you'll bring this series to a memorable conclusion. I must say you inspired me to leap on top of my husband's precious antique oak table, but now the poor man is having a fit. I should have jumped on the butcher block table instead.


Also, it has no discernable beginning or end. Sometimes symbolic of the topology of time, and the anomalies of cause and effect, possible futures, etc. Dreamer is the key, perhaps -- perchance to dream. Time will tell.

I'm gonna follow Gail's lead and go backwards, too!

Seeing the original script posted would be a *real* treat! Instructional, too.

You've got me curious about the reason behind seeing the Karahdia scene. Just one week to wait (though I still wish it were a month-- just to fill up that two-month Legion void coming up).

Hmmm... more to look forward to?

Persuade away, please! I completely agree about Drura... can you tell yet what response *her* reappearance is getting?

I wonder if 'newer' fans *get* her.

Thanks, on behalf of everyone else who posted here.

Todd