Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! How Legionnaires have fared through the various eras

The problem with Bouncing Boy is that you need to contrive ways in which the power to bounce is an aid rather than a hindrance. Whenever the team comes up against someone with super-strength or energy blasts, he's, if anything, a potential weapon to be used against the team. This is something that doesn't apply to the other Legionnaires with "minor" powers like Lu & Lyle - or, indeed, Tenzil.

Jorge, perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying about Tenzil and Chuck's non-usage in the successful Cockrum and Levitz eras. It seemed you were implying that their non-usage and the success went hand in hand, which can be trumped by the Adventure-Era arguement.

I do think their usage in non-Adventure eras shows that they CAN work in ANY era... IF the writer cares to and is skilled enough to make use of them.

I'd say the same about Blok... Dream Girl... Tyroc... Wildfire... and ANY other Legionnaire who has suffered from poor or lazy writing.

Reboot, I see it more that the writer would have to be "really creative", but I can get what you are saying. I personally wouldn't want to be smacked with a giant flight-ring aided human ball myself...

Well, that's the thing. Super-strength and energy blasts are two of the most common powers going.

Otherwise, well, put it this way - if Bouncing Boy hit someone human-level (i.e., NOT super-strong/invulnerable) solidly... he'd break their necks. "Bouncing" isn't exactly controllable the way you could, say, pull a punch if needed.

Not a reflection on Chuck as a character - after all, he was around for most of the postboot in significant roles without being powered as such - but it's an ability which is somewhere between uncontrollable, potentially lethal, and potentially dangerous to his teammates if he's grabbed, punched or blasted. This is stuff just about every other character only has to deal with if they're actively being mind-controlled - which Chuck isn't immune to. And that's why I say "contrived" rather than "creative" - if you have to write around a character, you're in trouble.

Chuck really did shine in the post-boot era, and didn't need powers to do so (although I never stopped wanting him to get them anyway). This reflects well on the writers who handled him during this period.


COLOSSAL BOY/LEVIATHAN

Early Adventure Era: Gim's always running around wrestling giant monsters and robots. But for such a big guy, makes surprisingly small impact.

Shooter Era: Gim has a starring role in the LSV/Tarik the Mute 2-parter, but otherwise is pretty much just "there".

Cockrum/Grell Era: Nothing major in his semi-regular appearances, and I miss his red, green and yellow "space ranger" outfit!

S/LSH/80s Era: Gim is frequently upstaged by his mom, Earth President Marte Allon, but appears on regular rotation.

Levitz Era: Things get interesting with the whole Violet/Yera/Duplicate Boy thing. Gim appears regularly throughout Levitz' tenure.

TMK Era: Gim has a cameo as a now non-powered Sci Cop. It should be noted that per the LSH Sourcebook, by the time the LSH disbanded during the 5 Year Gap, Colossal Boy was the only Adventure-Era member still on the team (iirc).

T&MB/SW6 Era: Gim shows up for the reunion on Winath. Meanwhile, SW6 Leviathan makes the scene.

Early Post-Boot Era: Gim helps make the early post-boot a great read, and has a central role for the first time ever.

"Archie" Post-Boot Era: Gim's death can be argued as pre-DnA post-boot's "shark jump" moment. Giving his powers to Violet adds insult to injury.

WaK 3Boot Era: He's there. The 'Micro Lad' thing is amusing for 5 minutes.

Tooniverse Era: Cameo appearances. Who can resist putting giant Gim in team-shots?

Countdown Era: A fortress statue is present, he's there!


SUMMARY

Despite never really having anything major going on (until the Yera mess), Colossal Boy has always been one of my favorites. When his best version (post-boot era) was killed off, I was really upset. I'm still hoping the 3Boot version will get his due. I don't just want him to be "there", I want him to BE THERE. If that makes any sense.

Ok I agree with you on all these points. I just think their non-usage was just a shift in tone but I agree they could've been used.

As a companion to the posted picture of the Countdown-Era statues on the previous page, here's a list of the Legionnaires listed in the lettercol of LoSHit31C # 5, with some updated comments on those members' appearances I'd already broken down on this thread prior to reading this issue. (and a few comments on some other listings I was excied about)


CHAMELEON BOY

DAWNSTAR -- glad to see her noted here!

BLOK -- bodes well for him.

DREAM GIRL -- I already knew she was slated for a season 2 spotlight episode.

FERRO LAD -- Not listed as "deceased". Spoken of in present tense.

INVISIBLE KID -- the Jacques Foccart version. So no Lyle in the Tooniverse?

POLAR BOY

PRINCESS PROJECTRA -- A big surprise to see her listed. Will apparently have ties to the Snakejectra post-boot version.

QUISLET What fun!

SHADOW LASS

SUN BOY -- Had already appeared in the cartoon.

CALAMITY KING this one was a massive (good) surprise

FIRE LAD The Substitute Legionnaire, another big surprise

REFLECTO the Stig Ah version from TMK, another surprise

MONSTRESS Completely unexpected


For me, it looks like the Tooniverse will be the place to watch for long-missing underused characters.

SHRINKING VIOLET

Early Adventure Era: It didn't seem like Vi appeared as often as, say, Ayla or Lu, but the appearance in the Heroes of Lallor story is noteworthy.

Shooter Era: Violet again seems to take a backseat to Tinya, Shady and the other femmes.

Cockrum/Grell Era: A hot new hairstyle and costume marks an upswing in Salu sightings. She co-stars in at least 2 short stories and appears on regular rotation otherwise.

S/LSH/80s Era: Semi-regular rotation.

Levitz Era: The whole Yera thing marks some time off for Violet, but when she does return, it is with a big splash and personality overhaul. Appearances increase accordingly.

TMK Era: Vi takes a core role for the first time ever, and has a then-groundbreaking romance with Ayla.

T&MB/SW6 Era: Violet gets major play in the LEGIONNAIRES series and continues her core role in LSH.

Legion on the Run Era: "Dismantling TMK" effectively ends the Violet/Ayla romance, but Salu maintains her lead role through "End of an Era".

Early Post-Boot Era: "Shy" Vi makes the scene, appearing regularly.

"Archie" Post-Boot Era: The "Emerald Vi" storyline that ends with Gim's death and the "Team 20" split almost ruins the Violet character for me, but it cannot be argued that she definitely takes a core role here. I will not acknowledge the "LeVIathan" nonsense-- aside from that one statement

Dna Post-Boot Era: Violet's character never seems to quite recover from the "Emerald Vi" thing, appearances decline.

WaK 3Boot Era: It takes Salu and while to show up but when she does, it is again with a major splash.

Tooniverse Era: Cameos on the 'toon.

Countdown Era: She's there!


SUMMARY

I just don't know what to make of poor Salu. I cannot stress enough how much I disliked that "Emerald Vi" storyline, but I always liked her until then. I'm hoping the 3Boot, Tooniverse and Countdown eras hold better things for Shrinking Violet.

ELEMENT LAD/ALCHEMIST

Early Adventure Era/Shooter Era: Jan appeared semi-regularly throughout.

Cockrum/Grell Era: Semi-regular appearances with a defining moment in S/LSH 211.

S/LSH/80s Era: Semi-regular rotation continues.

Levitz Era: After several times as runner-up, Jan finally wins a leader election, pushing him to the fore for a large bulk of Levitz' run. Added bonus appearances when the Shvaughn relationship begins.

TMK Era: Jan is listed as a member but it seems he's always on Trom.

T&MB/SW6 Era: Jan gets a new BFF in former arch-enemy Roxxas. Meanwhile, batch SW6 Alchemist looks all cute in LEGIONNAIRES.

"Archie" Post-Boot Era: Jan first appears during the "White Triangle" storyline and joins during the "Archie" era, where he is treated as a bit of a flake. Still, his appearances were regular.

DnA post-Boot Era: Jan is a big hero during "Widening Rifts"... and then came LEGION LOST. *choke!* After being gone for a while, Jan's ... umm... body returns late in the DnA run.

WaK 3Boot Era: Element Lad is one of the 3booters that has gotten the shorter end of the re-imagined stick, unfortunately.

Tooniverse Era: I sort-of recall seeing Jan in cameo, but won't stake my life on it.

Countdown Era: There's a Jan statue... but one wonders: is it anatomically correct?


SUMMARY

Wow. Jan spent years as a regular player and was obviously popular with fans (according to the leadership election results). Now we have to content ourselves with an appearance every blue moon? Hopefully Shooter has good stuff in the works for the talented Mr. Arrah.

Lash, just wanted you to know that I'm following along, enjoying the summaries.

I hope that S&M remember that 3boot Jan likes to be naked.

Jan is an example of where the Reboot (as a whole) dropped the ball. He had a good--cut that, a GREAT--introduction, but then they really blew it from there on in.

Jan being the Progenitor didn't bother me as much as some of my fellow Legion Worlders (of course though, I relate to that feeling), but his earliest 'Archie Legion/Team 20' appearances were cringe-worthy.

Jan in the threeboot is a non-entity at this point.

He was one of my favorites during Levitz' run and his romance with Schvaughn is in my top three Legion romances of all time.

In the Lightning Saga, he wasn't just a statue, there is reference that Thom managed to convince Gim to let him go instead of Gim.

And I wholeheartedly understand you're desire to have him there in a, forgive the pun, big way. It was always a joy to see the inevitable splash page shot of C.B. and Validus in any battle with the Fatal Five. Another classic splash page of C.B. that comes to mind is during the Omega battle. C.B. stepping on Omega and Omega throwing C.B. off of him.

Again, a show of my fandom and age. There was a scene during the Earth War run that kind of defined not only Elemant Lad but Sun Boy as well. Again, I believe, it was a splash page of the two of them back to back surrounded by Khundian ships. The two blasting away at anything that moved towards them. It showed me that the writers understood that these two were possiblly two of the strongest, most powerful members of the team. Both E-Lad and Sun Boy were able to drop either Mon-El or Superboy whenever they wanted.

As much as I enjoyed Element Lad's spotlight as leader in the mid 80s, and appreciated Levitz fleshing him out as a multifaceted character, I also believe the seeds of his fall were unwittingly planted during that period with the spiritual/philosophical devotion stuff. Lately, I've been thinking they have to drop this aspect of the character altogether and do a full reset to the 70s secular persona or Jan Arrah will continue to recede into the background.

It could be done organically within the current continuity. Say, he decides for personal or political reasons to repudiate this aspect of his culture and think for himself. It would be much harder -- probably impossible -- to go back to the tragic "last survivor of a dead world" part since Jeckie and Mon-El own that title now, but Id be content with a more worldly persona who has a little more of the spunky, wise-cracking 60s and 70s character who derives an almost visceral pleasure from using his powers.

I should add that I don't view E-Lad's portrayal in Legion Lost to be an entirely bad thing. It added a permanent veneer of danger to the character. We'll always wonder if he (like Hal Jordan) will go off the deep end again and try destroy the universe. As long as they don't actually do that, it's okay.

The first time I took Element Lad really seriously (since I'd never really thought of him as a 'heavy hitter') was in the Great Darkness Saga, when the rest of the team pulled back from the encroaching army of unstoppable planet-wrecking Daxamites and Element Lad dropped them from the sky with a wave of his hands.

It was one of those moments when I blinked and had to look again. Up until that point he seemed to be limited to his two gimmicks, 'turn their guns to air' and 'hide behind this inertron wall.'

The new Element Lad is kinda bland, by comparison, and *vastly* weaker, being limited to touch range and only a 60 second duration on his transmutations, a concession most likely to the concept that there is now an entire planetfull of his people out there. I'm fine with his powers being ramped down a bit, but the changes to his character from fairly deep and thoughtful to really, really shallow pretend-shallow like some coffeehouse poet, don't work so well for me.

Powerboy, I agree about Element Lad in Earth War (& Sun Boy).

I also like the spiritual/philosophical aspects of him. I'm glad Levitz did stuff like this because to tel the truth the only thing different about the characters was powers & appearance.

Where is that stated?

I think it's in issue three, the one focused on Triplicate Girl, as he comments on that to Phantom Girl, as he prepares for his 'date' with Lu, and moments later when Lu arrives and asks him what they should talk about.

You know, I think Tromium is right. While Jan's spiritual outlook has been a great facet of the character, I wouldn't mind if they backed off from that for quite awhile. Unfortunately, it hurt the character pretty badly when writers didn't really know how to tackle it.

Jan certainly has inspired lots of commentary, lending credence to his alleged popularity. C'mon, Shooter-- straighten him out for us fans!


SHADOW LASS/UMBRA

Shooter Era: Joins late in the Adventure run (after an incorrectly-colored appearance as a statue in the Adult LSH tale). Perhaps because of her striking visual, she hits the ground running, starring in classic tales like the second Fatal 5 appearance and the Mordru 2-parter.

Cockrum/Grell Era: Shady is my favorite femme under the pencils of both Cockrum and Grell. Appears regularly.

S/LSH/80s Era: Semi-Regularly throughout.

Levitz Era: Tasmia continues her appearances with a pivotol moment during LSH # 300. She appears regularly until the Magic Wars. However, her persona takes on a cattiness that perhaps hurts her during the...

TMK Era: Shady is a third-tier character at best.

T&MB/SW6 Era: No SW6 counterpart for Shady. The Bierbaums return her to star status for their BLOODLINES tie-in annual.

"Archie" Post-Boot Era: Umbra joins in the very fun LEGIONNAIRES # 43, and proves to be a badass the next issue. This "badassedness" hits new heights during the...

DnA Post-Boot Era: Umbra can kick anyone's ass, and is a major star of LEGION LOST. Appearances remain top-level.

WaK 3Boot Era: Semi-steady appearances, frequently colored a hideous shade of gray.

Tooniverse Era: Has she cameoed on the 'toon? Not sure.

Countdown Era: Statue!


SUMMARY

Shady was obviously a Jim Shooter favorite, and with him returning I'll wager we can see an increase in Shady happenings!

LIGHTNING LAD/LIVE WIRE


Early Adventure Era: I'd call him a core member.

Shooter Era: Garth continues to get big-time play, but maybe not so much "core".

Cockrum/Grell Era: Garth is on the rotation.

S/LSH/80s Era: Garth (and Imra) quit after marriage, then rejoin a while later. Garth wins the readers' leadership election, but then goes apeshit.

Levitz Era: Garth really takes a backseat to Imra during much of Levitz' run, Garth and Imra quit again, and Garth doesn't rejoin once Imra does.

TMK Era: Garth is a minor character at best.

T&MB/SW6 Era: The Bierbaums introduce the infamous "Proty-in-Garth" twist, and proceed to explore it in Live Wire's personality. This, for me, makes Garth a "character to watch" for the first time ever.

Early Post-Boot Era: Garth is a core member.

"Archie" Post-Boot Era: Garth remains a major player during the Team-20 split.

DnA Post-Boot Era: Garth is inarguably the unequalled star of LEGION LOST. He disappears for a while, but DnA bring him back-- sort of-- for the end of their run.

WaK 3Boot Era: Lightning Lad has actually gotten some big play during the 3boot.

Tooniverse Era: Garth has been made a star on Superman's level.

Countdown Era: He's on that ACTION cover!


SUMMARY

From core, to one of the gang, to background player, back to core, then superstar status. Garth's made the rounds. I'm loving his Tooniverse incarnation and glad he's back in the limelight!

Re: Shadow Lass, I feel that Cramer summed it up just right with this excerpt from a post in another thread.

STAR BOY

Early Adv Era: The real forgotten Legionnaire! But when he was finally remembered, he had some choice juicy roles, including the whole Kenz Nuhor thingie.

Shooter Era: Thom was actually brought back into the LSH by Bridwell after Shooter's run started. I can't recall Shooter ever doing anything spectacular with him.

Cockrum/Grell Era: Thom receives a Cockrum costume that remains influential throughout comics to this day (the "starfield" effect). He appears semi-regularly.

S/LSH/80s Era: He's there, though nothing super-special is done with him.

Levitz Era: Thom gets a beard and a nice spotlight issue, then midway during Levitz' Baxter run he is dumped. Still, he ends up appearing occasionally even after that through the Magic Wars.

TMK Era: Rarely seen throughout, see below.

T&MB/SW6Era: The Bierbaums give Thom a spotlight issue while Giffen is "sitting out" one month. No SW6 counterpart for Thom although a young version shows up in time for "End of an Era".

Early/"Archie" Post-Boot Eras: Thom is a key player once he joins, getting more "screen time" than perhaps ever before.

DnA Post-Boot Era: Not as much screen time, but still a semi-regular.

WaK 3Boot Era: Having his race switched doesn't seem to boost Thom past "semi-regular" appearances.

Tooniverse Era: Same here.

Countdown Era: Thom, back to his honky roots, is perhaps THE major player of the Countdown Era, with his starring role as a member of the Justice Society and alleged ties to Kingdom Come.


SUMMARY&

I fully expect Star Boy to have THE key role in whatever Countdown/LSH 50th anniversary thing is in the works.

Lash! Great rundown! Do the villains, too. Puhleeze!!