Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Nightwing raped, Flannel Lass contemplating murder

My solution...

Marv Wolfman.

This is, after all, the man that created the character that we all loved enough to call for his own book out of titans. I don't think any other character, not even wally, got that call in the sheer numbers that Dick did.

I'm sure that if Devin is gone, Shreik will put his fav Winnick on it. That guarantees that i wont be back. He has already cost me GA, Outsiders, and now Bats. But, im not the editor.

If not Marv, then i would put another writer that has a good grasp of the elements of storytelling. It seems that a lot of writers these days can't tell a good, coherent, ingrossing without being gross story from the beginning of the arc to the end.

What we don't need is the 73rd rehashing of Dick Battling to get out from under Bruce's shadow. He simply needs to BE it. The rest will follow.

Every person has their ideas about what to do with a character. I certainly have mine. But the dif is in the execution. And unfortunately, if the book doesn't pick up, i think execution is the right word for it.

I would get rid of Tarantula by having Dick come to his senses and arrest her for murder. She could come back later as a great nemesis for him. Then I would bring Steph in as a partner for him. She's already left the roll of Spoiler behind, and now Robin as well. She could become the new Flamebird to reboot that classic Silver Age team. That is, of course, assuming that Tim is slated to return to his Robin identity. If not, I would much prefer to see him become Dick's partner. They already have a great relationship and would work extremely well together.

I agree about Dick arresting Tarrantula for murder, that needs to be the first step.

I'd also bring back the cop aspect of the series, which was a really cool element that Dixon introduced, although Devin has destroyed by Amy finding out he's Nightwing and kicking him off the force.

Since most of his supporting cast is dead, I'd bring Clancy back in (she had a brief cameo recently), and introduce a few others.

I totally agree with Rick: Dick is OUT of Bruce's shadow. It should be over and done with. I'm tired of reading about it.

And now Dick needs new threats, since Blockbuster is dead and Devin pretty much made most of his enemies fifth stringers.

And all this is only how to start getting the series to what it was. It needs good art, good storytelling and a new 'feel' to it to wash the bad taste from everyone's mouth.

I keep thinking that there must be some plot twist ahead that will at least partly redeem the last few issues.

I thought Devin Grayson had a good handle on Nightwing when she first started writing the title. I liked the new cop she introduced... and I liked her take on the female chief.

Then she essentially removed them all from the regular cast?! Huh?

And blew up HAILEY'S CIRCUS! I hate that even more than the rape-- creepy as that is.

It's all supposed to come to a head by issue 100, but is there going to be anything left to read in this series besides an emasculated lead character?

I will say that if Tarantula becomes an antagonist for Dick-- these events *would* make for a compelling 'backdrop'. I think she'll probably take Huntress' and Spoiler's place as the 'outcast female' apparently now requisite for the ever-growing 'Bat family'. I hope I'm wrong-- much as I don't want to see the Tarantula name/legacy 'tarnished', effective villainesses are few and far between.

She could be one.

But it'll have to start with Dick coming out of his fog and arresting her. I almost want to see him beat the tar out of her, but that'd just reflect badly on him.

Followed by the inevitable rebuilding period...

... Hailey's will be sent out on the road again, Dick'll build a new apartment building, his relationship with the Bludhaven Police Department will change...

... maybe Blockbuster will 'come back' from the dead. Y'know... he would've been a good candidate as a past recipient of the 'Zatanna Special' introduced in IDENTITY CRISIS.

I like enough about all the background stuff that I'll keep reading... though I admit it's essentially 'rubbernecking'. I wonder how the heck things are gonna turn out for Dick.

Todd

But hasn't Devin already proved she doesnt give a crap about established characterisation with her jaw-droppingly bad turn on Titans? What she did with Starfire was bad enough.

She's also said in numerous interviews (at the time and before) that she identifies with Dick Grayson (isn't her writing name a pseudonym?) So whatever's going on in her personal life is presumably right down the dumper.

It's a miracle she's still got a job, it all sounds so desperate and try hard!

(On a more practical level though, how did the rape happen then? Like. I mean. Y'know... if he didn't want to etc...)

Maybe.

His last few years on Titans were jaw-droppingly bad, and did the Dick Grayson character no favors. Enough time has passed, though, that he might have a fresh perspective.

He had a breakdown after walking away and allowing Tarantula to murder Blockbuster. He was mentally unable to summon up the effort to fight her off.

(The body, I'm told, can respond to stimului regardless of the space the mind is in at the time. Which is why the rape would be possible under these conditions.)

Ah, that explains it. I thought she'd violated him with an implement. (Actually, I didn't know Tarantula's gender until reading the above post.)

I wonder if there'll be an "I'm pregnant with Nightwing's child" story arc in the future?

Wouldn't surprise me at all.

Agh, I hadn't considered that. Looks like things *can* get worse.

AGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! NO! No child, no please GOD I MEAN YOU SETEKH, NO CHILD OH DEITY OF BARRENNESS!!! Strike the bitch dead with thy mighty spear, oh mighty and terrible LORD!!!

*pant*

Anyway, here's a link to a preview of the next book of Nightwing, which is part of the War Games multibook storyarc, ad YAY Bruce doesn't disappoint me!! Good flying mousie! *pets the bat* Good die fledermausmann!! http://www.popcultureshock.com/reviews.php?id=3166

Taking a break from my Jason Todd conspiracy theories --

*grins evilly at Flannel Lass*

-- to concur wholeheartedly with just how bloody twisted Devin Greyson has made the Nightwing book.

Ye shining hells, if she were a fanwriter she would be flambe by now.
Mary-Sue writing at its worst, combined with reams upon reams of pointless -- and disturbing! -- character torment ... geh.

In an ideal world, Tarantula will get arrested. Or killed off during War Games -- that would be nice, too.
Unfortunately, putting Nightwing back together again might be more of an undertaking than can be logically done at this point ...

The fact that DC seems to be blithely allowing yon writer to get away with this kind of travesty despite massive fan outrage is disturbing.
Even to this Legion fan, who should maybe be used to it.
Then again, what has been written in Nightwing lately bothers me on a deeper level than even Legion Lost -- and that really gets to me, even now ...

Good to see that Batman still has nice sharp eyes. There may be hope yet. From Batman, no less. *shakes head wonderingly*


Hm.
*conspirator mode on*
Maybe if Jason comes back, he kills Tarantula slowly and messily.
There's a strange kind of justice there that gives me a nice warm evil feeling ...


Tai

(edited to try and minimize spoilers, at least ...)

If you've never read this, and maybe aren't familiar with all of the character's history, here is an interesting essay which refers to the changes made in Dick Grayson... Pre-Tarantula.

http://www.fanzing.com/mag/fanzing30/feature3.shtml

Hm, very interesting article snowsparkle.

I never really thought much about the difference in Dick from the 80's Titans and his 90's solo series, but there does seem to be some disconnect.

Grayson's current run on the book has only made it much, much worse.

Glad I don't read this anymore.

Anyone else getting disturbed by all the rape happening in the DCU?

I haven't followed Nightwing for some time now and am glad to be missing out on this Tarantula mess (though Wolfman's Dick Grayson will ALWAYS be my greatest non-Legion love *hee hee*.

I must say though, Vee, your idea to put Stephanie in the role of Nightwing's sidekick as a Flamebird II is sheer genius. And it strikes me as odd that the writer can't think of something as apropos as this, which would delight fans, rather than such an out-of-character, Chuck Austen-level of doggy dung that no one likes.

That was a great article snowsparkle. It really is tragic how badly some writers have mangled some classic DC characters. Not only Dick Grayson but also Roy Harper. Back when he was Speedy he was my favourite character in all of comics and I would've bought anything that had even the slightest mention of him in it. ... The fact that now I don't even flick through Outsiders at the shop says it all really.

I don't think we'll be seeing Stephanie as a Flamebird anytime soon, given as Flamebird is still operating off and on on the West Coast - Bette Hall, the way way waaaaay back original Batgirl.

I, also, am unhappy with what's been going on with Roy. Even the art makes me itch - one of the best features Roy consistently had was his big, expressive eyes. Now he's a pinheaded squinty slutmonkey. It's really jarring to read Outsiders and then read Speedy back in the "Snowbirds Don't Fly" era, and I don't just mean the slang.

I've been wondering how Outsiders and Nightwing can possibly both be continuity. Perhaps some of Dick's behaviour with the team is related to what's going on in his own book, but I just don't see how there's enough time for there to be both happening.

I also wonder if everyone losing memory of who the Flash is (including the Flash) and Wally West subsequently dropping off the 'dar for two months or so is being accounted for in the books featuring Dick. The last time I remember seeing Wally anywhere near the Nightwing was the issue where (thanks to Tarantula's interference) Barbara broke up with Dick.

(Edited for spelling)

Her name is Bette Kane not Hall. And considering she's only dusted off for trademark purposes every so often, it wouldn't be hard to officially retire her and open the spot up to Steph. But even if Bette didn't retire, DC currently has 2 Flashes and 3 GLs - what's another Flamebird?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Miss Terious:
[QB Her name is Bette Kane not Hall. [/QB/QUOTE]

*scratches head in puzzlement* How did I manage that typo? I was just trying to figure out yesterday if she's meant to be related to Addy Kane (Jericho's mother). Thanks, Miss Terious, for pointing that out.

Did anyone catch the Nightwing 2-Parter in Flash recently? I thought that was a nice Nightwing story (by Geoff Johns of course) and a great chance to see Wally and Dick together.

I intend to pick this up, personally. I had dropped Flash some time ago when funds were getting very tight and the stories weren't doing as much for me.

I haven't been reading Flash either, but I did pick up that 2-parter. Not brilliant, but good reading.

Yes and no.

It's all in the execution, and it's possible for some compelling stories to be told using that theme. In Nightwing, it's just sordid. My jury's still out on IC, though things don't look promising right now.

If anything, I'm starting to wonder how these books got around the "Mature Readers" tag, especially IC.

I thought they did that just by not being subject to the CCA or whatever authority is in charge currently.

If they don't have the little seal of approval on the front cover, I think they can do whatever they want -- and can use or not use a "mature readers" label at their whim.

Anyone know more about this?