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Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
#1013395 03/21/22 01:54 PM
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Okay let's try Archive Volume 36 with a slightly new format!

We'll try something new and be reading and discussing the following as entire arcs versus issue-by-issue:

Future Tense (Superboy #21, LSH #74, L* #31)
2-Timer (LSH #75, L* #32)
Starfinger (LSH #76, L* #33, LSH #77, L* #34)
Fatal Five/Chu (LSH #78, L* #35,LSH #79, L* #36, LSH #80)
L* #37, LSH #81, L* #38, LSH #82
Emerald Vi - L* #39, LSH #83, L* #40, LSH #84, L* #41)


Links to previous Archive Re-Reads are below:

Archive Index




Interested in the Post-Zero Hour Reboot Legion? Check out:

The Reboot Legion Timeline

Fan Fiction: The Legion of Super-Heroes v4.1 (continuing the reboot from issue 126!) on LW or here (external)

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1013396 03/21/22 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Future
Superboy #21
Making History - Future Tense, part 1 of 3


Issue Information

Summary:

As Superboy ironically races to history class, members of the Legion of Super-Heroes arrive in the 20th century. One is missing though - XS! Brainiac 5 insists they look for her later and find Superboy. They can always time travel again to save her, so he views it as a moot issue.

Superboy has returned from class and is distraught his artificial knowledge has now caught up to where they are in school. Now he'll have to *gasp* actually study. Just then, the Legion bursts in! The typical super-hero battle ensues, as the Legion can't get a telepathic earplug into Kon's ear to translate Interlac for him. Superboy realizes something is off and his telepathic roomie, Dubbilex, links them all together.

Learning the Legion has arrived to rescue Valor, Superboy takes them to S.T.A.R.labs and relates how he saved Lar. The blueprints from holding the projector together are still in Superboy's mind, so Saturn Girl links him and Brainy. Everyone is hopeful Brainy can use his smarts to rebuild the machine, but the materials are too obsolete. Brainy gets huffy and triggers a time jump back to the 30th century, taking Superboy with them!

Thoughts:

This may be the first time the Legion bursts into Superboy's home in the 20th century, but it certainly won't be the last time. In fact everything is feeling very deja vu about this. It probably doesn't help that Cos, Imra, Brainy, and Lu all return to Superboy's home at some point as those stranded in the Team 20 era.

I always hate when Saturn Girl's telepathy gets written as more incapable than it is. Here it's Dubbilex that gets to be the psi that links everyone together - Saturn Girl never seems to think to try it in the battle. I'd rather a line about her fear that she couldn't understand old English herself anyway or just have her knocked out for the sake of the plot.

Poor XS. While Brainy's argument is valid, they do give up on looking for her quick. Cosmic Boy is the most concerned by her missing status - something Jenni would be blushing about had she known.

Despite taking 22 pages to tell, the plot here is very straight-forward. If it wasn't for the subplots, arbitrary hero fight, and throwing in Superboy's roommates for fun ... the whole story could have been cut in half. Valor's origin is retold I suspect less for Superboy readers but more for Legion fans who are tuning in for the first time due to the team's guest appearance here.

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legion of Super-Heroes 74
Prisoner of the Super-Heroes, Future Tense part 2 of 3


Issue information

Summary:

The Legionnaires and Superboy return to the 30th century, much to Superboy's annoyance. Brainiac 5 realizes that the Phantom Zone Projector's parts are too primitive to replicate with the materials he has on-hand. A team of Legionnaires, plus Superboy and Ultra Boy, travel to planet Korr to search its technological archive only to find that the piece they need has been stolen... by the Scavenger! The issue ends with the Scavenger using the Philosopher's Stone to vanquish the entire team!

Plus, a careless Superboy inadvertently reveals the Valor rescue mission to the UP public, stirring up extreme reactions from believers of different worlds.


Thoughts:

This issue was a pretty good read. It ably handled the series of conflicts - Triad's internal disagreements; Superboy's conflict with Brainiac 5 and much of the Legion; and the debate on how to handle Valor's rescue mission.

Superboy has every right to be annoyed at Brainy; as Future's review told us, Brainy had already asked Saturn Girl to link him to Superboy's mind, and had already realized how obsolete they were:

Originally Posted by Future
Superboy #21
The blueprints from holding the projector together are still in Superboy's mind, so Saturn Girl links him and Brainy. Everyone is hopeful Brainy can use his smarts to rebuild the machine, but the materials are too obsolete.


Yet Brainy pulls the specs AGAIN this issue. Ah well, the writers had to make sure Superboy was "needed" in the future, or this wouldn't be much of a crossover. I actually think Superboy's reaction was justified, and though he used machinery to attack Brainy, it was mild compared to what, say, Wolverine would do. And Superboy's right - you need help, just ask!

Having Triad be the Legionnaire whose belief in Valor is strongest is a good move. Her three personalities allow us to see just how extreme these feelings can get. It's also a way to further develop her, as we see that their emotional and mental differences extend even to their faith. Ooh, blasphemy. Triad must be really mad at Purple now. (By the way, the panel of Imra frowning in the background as Superboy is distracted by Triad's lust, is priceless).

Speaking of, Superboy's inadvertent Valor slip is unfortunate but not unexpected. He picked up on Triad Purple's interest and tried too hard to impress her. He got careless. A lot of teenage boys do that.

We don't see much of the UP's reaction to the Valor rescue mission, but we don't need to. Triad's reaction and Chu's call with Cos are enough to drive the point home. The writers also took a good opportunity to look in on the Ranzzes; it seems Winath is also a world of believers. The reactions of Spark and Live Wire are not nearly so extreme as Triad's though. Spark even chooses to stay home on Winath, and nobody admonishes her for it. Even if she were just humoring Garth, I'm sure her dad at least would have told her to go. If this were really the "most important event of their lives", of course. No, Triad's beliefs are a lot stronger.

Imra also knew about Valor's religious significance, though it doesn't seem as though she believes in him as a religious figure. And none of the other Legionnaires we see show signs of it.

By the way, Leviathan's explanation to Superboy on page 10 - "Sure, we're all from other worlds, except me", is a bit misleading. To Superboy's, and the readers', perspective, it makes it sound like Gim is from Earth while Lyle is not. Superboy, for all intents and purposes, sees himself as an Earth native. Or Kryptonian. Either way, Gim is from Mars; even if he had come from Earth, Lyle is also from Earth. But eh, it's a minor quibble and Gim is hardly the best at seeing things from others' perspectives.

Finally, we see quite a bit of action at the end. Interesting that Scavenger is still alive after a thousand years. His collection is amazing - I see two versions of the Batmobile, a Preboot Legion clubhouse, a ball with coloring matching that of Plastic Man's, Ray's helmet, Blue Beetle's bug and costume, Luthor's battlesuit, Brainiac's ship, Batman's giant penny, McDonald's arches, Guardian's shield, Hawkman's helmet, Flash's ring... and this is besides Superboy's jacket, Steel's staff, New Genesis aero-disks, Blue Devil's trident, the Philosopher's stone... and is that Captain Cold's gun that he uses to freeze so many Legionnaires?

Oh, and on page 19, 2nd panel... is that the Emerald Eye that bounces away from the shattered display case? UH-OH. Boy, I hope this is just a replica, and not the REAL eye...

The battle itself is well-choreographed. Things happen really quickly, though most of the Legionnaires get something to do and we do see them engage in some teamwork. The storytelling also makes it just abut plausible that Scavenger can easily take down 7 super-powered youths all by himself. The artwork gives us a sense that he's moving really quickly, and he does have access to a huge arsenal of weapons (thankfully most of them non-lethal). The only element that didn't go well? That one panel where Superboy and Ultra Boy go "where did he go?" Um, he seems to be right there in the panels before and after; you can see him in the foreground with Leviathan in the background, and he's close enough to zap Ultra boy too. Also, Triad doesn't get any action.

All in all a good second part to the crossover. The ending definitely leaves me wanting more.

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legionnaires 31
One Thousand Years of Solitude, Future Tense part 3 of 3


Issue information

Summary:

The away team manages to beat Scavenger without any casualties. The Legionnaires make a big show of activating the Phantom Zone projector to release Valor, only for the projector to fall apart in front of the gathered crowd and the news cameras!

A while later, the Phantom Zone spits out Valor - Brainiac 5 had triggered a time delay so Valor could exit the Zone in secret! The lead serum is successful and Valor is finally free, though he is forced to lie low due to his status. An upset Valor turns on Triad, who is consoled by Superboy. Superboy is made honorary Legionnaire before being returned to the 20th century.

Thoughts:

This was another fun issue with effective storytelling. The layout of the panes in the battle with Scavenger us superb, as is the teamwork: Chameleon gets Scavenger to drop the Philosopher's Stone, Triad catches it, Leviathan coaches her to use it to save Violet, who follows and defeats a shrunken Scavenger. And Ultra Boy's penetra-vision finds the missing piece they need, with Superboy's guidance. The pacing was just right and the excitement was kept up all throughout.

The Legion's solution to the Valor mess is inspired, and the storytelling is very effective. We don't get a hint at all that the Phantom Zone projector is meant to fall apart; the only clue is the last panel on page 14 where Superboy and Brainiac 5 grin as they run away, and that's already after the projector fails. That is good writing.

I do feel a bit bad for Brainy. He probably doesn't care much, but Cos yells at him a lot this issue. He's pretty much the only one Cos yells at! I do share Cos' concern for XS though. "XS is lost in time, and you're making toys?" Yeah, it's not like Brainy's forcefield is urgent. But I guess Brainy is just that confident about being able to find XS.

Superboy really redeemed himself this issue! He shows a lot of the depth that Future stated was present in his own series. I wouldn't call him manipulative, but he certainly knows how to make amends. Telling Saturn Girl he's a screw-up, apologizing to and flattering Brainiac 5, and consoling Triad at the end. And, as I forgot to mention in last issue's review, his budding friendship with Chameleon - who actually cries when he leaves.

Valor's anger at Triad and his disappointment at being asked to lie low is very realistic. After being trapped for so long, he must be itching to explore again; in the 20th century, he had the same lust for exploration. As someone who eagerly trawls through the Internet to find cheap flights and to research on far-off lands, I can relate. It's worse for Valor, as he easily has the powers and means to explore; the only reason he can't go out is because of his believers! His outburst is right in that the believers do use him to add meaning to their lives, but of course we can't blame them. His legend has been built up for over a thousand years, after all; and his deeds were great. It's nice to see the world seeding still a part of continuity too.

More Easter Eggs in Scavenger's lair - Quislet's ship, a GL power battery (?), Data's (from Star Trek's) head, and Atom's belt.

Scavenger's cybernetic enhancements also help explain why a) he's so tough, and b) why he's so long-lived.

I'm also pleased by how the creators managed to show - in one panel on page 8 - the gravity of the Valor leak. The two beings from different worlds arguing about how Valor looks like? Comedic AND effective.

The issue also has some choice comedic bits, like:

1) The ongoing flirtation between Purple and Superboy. When Purple whispers something to Superboy, Triad Neutral's and Orange's are much less violent. "Valor's watching!" I wonder how they knew what she was whispering to Superboy? Does she have some sort of telepathic link, or is it just from experience? Also, when Superboy whispers (possibly the same thing) back to an integrated Triad, her "WHAT did you say?!" line is priceless.

2) Chu asking who Superboy is. When Cos says he's a friend of Brainy's, Chu goes, "Brainiac 5 has friends?!"

3) The initiation prank at the end, where the Legion pretends that the time machine failed. A nice homage to the Adventure Era.

All in all, this was a nice, fun issue and helped us forget for a while just how bad the political climate around the Legion has gotten. It was a welcome break from the doom and gloom immediately following the White Triangle saga's conclusion.


Interested in the Post-Zero Hour Reboot Legion? Check out:

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Fan Fiction: The Legion of Super-Heroes v4.1 (continuing the reboot from issue 126!) on LW or here (external)

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1013403 03/21/22 03:25 PM
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Superboy 21-

Fun element of Superboy zipping through school taking a test. I really like how he's portrayed basically as a slacker - very much an anti-Clark.

Here comes the Legion - neat effect of the Legionnaires being cold after the time travel. Triad being separated and integrating on arrival is a nice visual way to show the Superboy readers what she does. The team tracking down Superboy with Cham taking an alien form was interesting, but was a bit tropish from the "fight, let's team up" perspective until Dubbilex can telepathically translate for everyone. Some nice moments with Dubbilex, Cham and the dog. Superboy and Triad start to cutely flirt, while Brainy gets typically annoyed at STAR Labs and makes the team, plus Superboy but minus XS, go back to the 30th century.

I mostly really enjoyed this, especially Tom Grummett's art. Karl Kesel did a great job with the Legionnaires here.

LSH 74-

A lot of really good beats in this issue that address the "problem" of Silver Age Clark tossing Mon-El in the Phantom Zone and not bothering with it, then still being best buds 1000 years later. Here, Brainy addresses the WHY of the chronology - Valor is seen in the future, therefore he can't be rescued in the 20th century. Even though it's already been done, Triad argues with herself over Valor AND Superboy, which is the trigger to make Valor's return to be secret, which completely backfires when Superboy is brought to the monitor room when an eyestalk alien eavesdrop over the monitor link, and word spreads so fast that Ultra Boy asks to help. The division of Legionnaires that either like or dislike Superboy is interesting; there is no in-between with him.

The Scavenger fight as the Legion searches for the part they will need to rescue Valor is a fun spot-the-artifact series of pages featuring equipment from then-current DCU characters from the 20th century. Of course, page 19 has a panel that will set up some major events in about a year. Great cliffhanger ending with the Scavenger gaining the upper hand over the Legion.

I very much enjoyed this issue all around. I'm typically not a big Lee Moder fan in this era, but he does a great job here and adds a lot of great touches (like the reflection of Brainy on Superboy's glasses).

Legionnaires 31

The rescue sequence was built very nicely. Cham's attachment to Superboy (something I totally forgot about, but very much enjoyed) allows him to be angry enough to escape his prison, which knocks the stone away from Scavenger to Triad, who rescues Vi, with Gim coaching the whole thing. Vi's takedown of Scavenger was great, as is the Legion's reaction to the crowd that's gathered back at their HQ. Imra coaching Superboy was a great characterization of her innate leadership abilities.

Having the friction between Superboy and B5 be the catalyst for him to create his iconic force field is probably not what I would have gone with, but it works pretty well. The fake-out rescue and recovery of Valor works really well for me, as does Valor's reaction for being asked to lay low.

It's too bad Kinetix is out of action on this storyline - it would be interesting to have seen SB's "tactile telekinesis" interplay with Zoe's powers.

All in all, a very fun, re-readable series of issues with this era's Superboy and the Legion (that has zero relation to his later visit, but that's a whole other thing!). Jeff Moy's art is great as is the writing by Peyer.

Last edited by Gaseous Lad; 03/21/22 03:26 PM.

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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1013416 03/22/22 02:58 AM
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mega thanks for starting /re starting this, GL!

thoughts -

1) Agree with Future re Saturn Girl's telepathy. she's quite capable, so having her act as some rookie telepath really does not sit well

2) classic Brainy, not worrying about XS. "We're time traveling anyway, so what does it matter if we find her later?"

3) Agree that the plot structure of the first issue was meh. Obligatory misunderstanding and fight, and of course the star of the book (Superboy) gets to realize something is off!

4) Triad being triplicated while traveling through time... isn't that a bit dangerous? foreshadowing maybe - it became a bit dangerous for her in LSH 91 tongue

5) very much AGREE with your points, GL, on the issue of Superboy leaving Valor in the Zone for 1000 years. Yes, we can't rescue him earlier cause he's still in the Zone now! and we get some good moments showing Superboy's guilt, and Valor's trauma (not even saying bye to Superboy, and lashing out at Triad when Cosmic Boy tells him he needs to keep hidden...) 1000 years like that, I don't know if I could handle it!

6) fun easter eggs in Scavenger;s lair, whee!

7) lol re Kinetix being absent, indeed how would she relate to Superboy's tactile telekinesis? also Vi's crack about not telling Kinetix that they would throw away the Philosopher's stone...

also, I thought it was a hoot that the writers used the Stone... they hadn't been able to use Jan Arrah's powers a lot yet, so is this their way of showing "hey, we can too write some good transmutation..>!"

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1013417 03/22/22 02:58 AM
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PS, I'm really excited for this archive set - the Fatal Five/Chu storyline is one of the best storylines I've ever read in any comic, period!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Invisible Brainiac #1013418 03/22/22 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
mega thanks for starting /re starting this, GL!

Absolutely! We've definitely needed to get back to this! That said, all feedback is welcome as to the storyline-based approach here. I may change up the initial posts, as quoting them all in one message may be cumbersome! smile

Also, there may be a couple other issues snuck in here and there based on XS's meanderings.


Quote
1) Agree with Future re Saturn Girl's telepathy. she's quite capable, so having her act as some rookie telepath really does not sit well
3) Agree that the plot structure of the first issue was meh. Obligatory misunderstanding and fight, and of course the star of the book (Superboy) gets to realize something is off!

I think I mainly agree here - when I was reading this, and Future's comment, my main reaction was that he was focusing more on the SB characters having more agency than the Legion, who were there just to take SB to the future. That said, Kesel could have been a little more imaginative to explain Imra's reduction in power.

Quote
2) classic Brainy, not worrying about XS. "We're time traveling anyway, so what does it matter if we find her later?"

After all the Legion I've been reading, this approach to time travel is refreshing - Time Travel means you can literally go anywhen, so the Legion with Superboy trope of time travel happening linearlly for Superboy's sake always struck me as weird.

Quote
5) very much AGREE with your points, GL, on the issue of Superboy leaving Valor in the Zone for 1000 years. Yes, we can't rescue him earlier cause he's still in the Zone now! and we get some good moments showing Superboy's guilt, and Valor's trauma (not even saying bye to Superboy, and lashing out at Triad when Cosmic Boy tells him he needs to keep hidden...) 1000 years like that, I don't know if I could handle it!

I see this brought up in a lot of podcasts that are talking about the classic Legion, so this plot nugget jumped out at me.

Quote
7) lol re Kinetix being absent, indeed how would she relate to Superboy's tactile telekinesis? also Vi's crack about not telling Kinetix that they would throw away the Philosopher's stone...

That Vi, always thinking of Zoe. smile

Quote
also, I thought it was a hoot that the writers used the Stone... they hadn't been able to use Jan Arrah's powers a lot yet, so is this their way of showing "hey, we can too write some good transmutation..>!"

This is a really good callout, Ibby, as I guess Jan is kind of indisposed at the moment. wink


Interested in the Post-Zero Hour Reboot Legion? Check out:

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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1013419 03/22/22 07:18 AM
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More XS is always nice wink

oh yes, poor Jan, so busy...

and indeed, Zoe is often on Vi's mind tongue

re time travel, yeah! one can go any-when, so Brainy could wait a month and still time travel to the exact time they lost XS... though, she would be slowed down in aging, compared to everyone else. well, one month behind anyway

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Invisible Brainiac #1013433 03/22/22 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
re time travel, yeah! one can go any-when, so Brainy could wait a month and still time travel to the exact time they lost XS... though, she would be slowed down in aging, compared to everyone else. well, one month behind anyway

Not even that - I need to go back and see the exact issue XS returns, but its definitely by Emerald Vi, which (according to the timeline wink ) is only a couple weeks after this.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1013445 03/23/22 03:10 AM
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XS returned I believe in Legionnaires Annual 3 / Legionnaires 35 smile she was definitely there for the Fatal Five story.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Invisible Brainiac #1013448 03/23/22 05:08 AM
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Yeah, definitely Legionnaires 35 - but isn't the Annual that tells her story back way out of sync from a release perspective? Like months later?


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1013451 03/23/22 06:45 AM
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oh yeah you're right, says here the Annual cover date is December 1996,

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Legionnaires_Annual_Vol_1_3

but Legionnaires 35 is March 1996!

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Legionnaires_Vol_1_35

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1013466 03/23/22 07:01 PM
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Hmmm, I'll have to figure that out when we get there in a few weeks...


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1016485 07/05/22 04:07 PM
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Okay I've been getting messages saying I should start this back up. Watch this space! smile


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Re-Reading the Legion: 2-Timer
Gaseous Lad #1016486 07/05/22 04:15 PM
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Massive MASSIVE apologies to all. I got on a Threeboot re-read kick due to a podcast opportunity and I kind of stuck with that for a bit too long, and my ADHD (along with work getting a little crazy this last month) put me in a bit of a bind.

So without further adieu.... Let's talk about the next storyline - 2-Timer!

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legion of Super-Heroes 75
2-Timer
Underworld Unleashed Tie-In, Part 1


Issue Information

Summary:
We finally find the missing XS, who herself finds the 20th century villain Chronos! Like other villains at that time, Chronos has been powered up by the demon Neron as part of the Underworld Unleashed event. And like other villains, Chronos suffers a drawback. In exchange for being able to time travel at will, Chronos ages every time he uses his power. He has managed to temporarily stop the aging by transferring its effects to others; mostly young children like Lori Morning.

Lori, the daughter of Chronos’ henchman Ronald, befriends XS despite the language barrier. They discover that Chronos has kidnapped several children and aged them several decades. They manage to stop Chronos in the 20th century, only for another version of him to appear and bring Lori to the 30th century where he attacks the Legion in order to steal Brainiac 5’s time platform! And XS remains in the past, though it seems that events will lead her to the current Flash, Wally West.

Thoughts:

Tie-in issues to company-wide crossovers are hit or miss at best, but this one is a hit. The linkages to the Underworld Unleashed event are minimal, and no additional knowledge of the event is needed to understand or appreciate this story.

The action is fast-paced and few panels are wasted. XS, despite us not understanding her speech (unless you have the Interlac guide handy) shines. She manages to understand Lori’s coaching and she also figures out how to use Chronos’ glove. And like the hero she is, she risks remaining aged bin order to restore the five boys that Chronos kidnapped first. Of course, she restores herself next before Lori, but I don’t hold that against her; Lori’s been aged only a few years at most and Lori doesn’t mind the aging at all. I also like the scene where XS is still lost in the timestream, and she uses the memory of Cosmic Boy’s encouragement to calm herself. XS’ heroic journey is nearly complete; she comes across as a very mature young hero. It’s also a nice reminder of Cos’ excellent inspirational leadership, which has sadly been waning in recent issues.

On to XS’ new friend Lori. She enjoys being physically aged because she wants to be taken more seriously. But she doesn’t realize that the aging doesn’t come with mental or intellectual maturity. She does decently though, coaching both XS and the 30th century Legionnaires about Chronos’ glove. Her nicknames, Speedy and Barbie, were cute and descriptive. And to her credit, Lori doesn’t fall apart even though she sees her dad die. Nor does she have any misplaced loyalties towards Chronos.

Chronos’ aging shtick reminds me a bit of Glorith, though his is out of necessity. True to his villainous nature, he isn’t the least bit apologetic when Ronald catches him aging Lori. His villainy is characterized more by selfishness than sadism; besides his one-panel mention of destroying the Atom, all his actions are towards the goal of obtaining a time machine so he won’t age anymore.

We don’t get to know Ronald Morning enough to mourn him, though his belligerence towards Chronos – even before he realizes what has happened to Lori – puzzle me. Why exactly is he working for Chronos in the first place? He doesn’t seem to have any respect, much less actual loyalty, for Chronos. Ah well. Lori, of course, is distraught when Ronald dies but things happen so fast she doesn’t really get to mourn him.

On to the 30th century. Enter Rond Vidar! This Rond seems older and more “nerdy” than the Preboot version. His history with Brainiac 5 is a nice touch.

The Legionnaires in the 30th century do their best against Chronos. They do manage to stop him, but sadly not the effects of his glove. It’s great how five of the seven Legionnaires get to do something in 4 pages (2 pages, if you consider that only half of each page takes place in the 30th!).

The juxtaposition of 20th and 30th centuries is interesting, but confusing. I do like how the events mirror (but don’t completely copy) each other. Raises a lot of questions though. Chronos (unsurprisingly) and Lori (a little more surprisingly) have the same lines. I’m still confused as to where the second Chronos came from though. This one doesn’t seem to have any memory of fighting XS or of “dying” in the 20th century, yet remembers his mission to get the 30th century time machine. His dialogue also indicates that he just left for the 30th. What crazy time loop is this?

The art is good, though Lee Moder’s deaged kids seem a bit too old. Lori talks like she’s maybe 10, the boys seem to be in their preteens. Maybe they’re not in the same year. The action was very easy to follow though, and the layouts (especially for the pages with the battles against Chronos) were good.

All in all a solid issue, and a good setup for future development for XS. Sadly, I don’t have copies of her adventures in the 20th century, so if anybody else does, go for it!

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legionnaires 32
Here and Now
Underworld Unleashed Tie-In, Part 2


Issue Information

Summary:

The Legionnaires survive their battle with Chronos, though he doesn’t. Lori is now aged to early adulthood. The Legionnaires seek Rond Vidar’s assistance, but a slip by Cosmic Boy leads to Chu ordering the Science Police to shut them down! The Legionnaires barely manage to extract Brainiac 5 from the timestream, and the issue ends with him arrested for time travel.

We also revisit Kinetix after about 10 issues (5 months of real world time). She’s close to death, but a white glow surrounds her ship and apparently teleports her away. To safety? Time will tell.

Thoughts:

Much like the previous issue, this one manages to pack in a lot of fast-paced and easy to follow action. It also gives almost every character a chance to shine despite limited panel space and a cast of over a dozen.

The opening scenes are very well-done and heighten the tension and suspense. Does everyone make it? Having the scene be from Valor’s point of view keeps us guessing, and also gives some much-needed panel time to our new character. It’s really a testament to his power (and maturity) that he saves the Athramites and Shvaughn without them realizing it is him; he also keeps himself hidden despite wanting to burst free and explore his new world. I can empathize; I daydream about and make plans for travel a lot, and these restrictions can chafe. Valor’s inclusion also helps bridge the language gap with Lori.

The succeeding scenes are well-paced, and each furthers the plot along. Cos’ inadvertent slip leads Chu to send the Science Police down on everyone; Lyle’s tinkering brings Brainy back and Rond’s tinkering leads him to the Time Institute. And somehow, the chronal energy resurrects Chronos. What?I don’t get it myself, but at least Chronos gives a one-panel guess that it must be Neron’s work. Lori, once again, proves she is someone great to have in a crisis. She gives Brainy the key to escaping the timestream, and gives the Legion the key to defeating Chronos. Lobe her stamping his foot too. Well done!

There’s a teensy error on page 5 though. Valor is speaking in Interlac in the first two panels, but Lori somehow understands him. Why does he have to switch to English in the next few panels then?

Triad’s suspicion of Lori is a nice touch, and might hold some jealousy. I’m sure she must be glad that Valor helped her first though, and that he doesn’t seem to be mad at her anymore.

Lyle’s “friendship” with Brainy, though not really seen before this, is refreshing. It looks like Lyle respects Brainy after all, despite their early rivalry (in Planet Hell, when Lyle invented the flight ring, and to an extent during the Composite Durlan battle) it does seem a bit odd that Lyle would think of Brainy as his pal (“he hasn’t said two words to me since Andromeda died” – why? It’s not like they were particularly friendly before, despite being the two smart guys on the team!). And true to form, Lyle doesn’t follow orders and isn’t afraid to tinker with things by himself.

This Rond is definitely more “nerdy” and research-minded than the Preboot Rond. His history with Brainy is a nice touch. I’m VERY interested in why Chu seems to be so eager to clamp down on time travel, and share Cosmic Boy’s surprise that you can’t talk about time travel in the Time Institute! I’m also glad that Rond, though definitely not Brainy’s equal, is capable enough to enable Brainy to “bounce” to the Time Institute. Good job! And it looks like Lori likes Rond’s brains, too.

I’m also very annoyed at the gung-ho, by-the-books actions of the Science Police this issue. Except for Shvaughn (good girl, siding with the Legion like that! And a good continuation of events in LSH Annual 6), they don’t even seem to care that blasting the equipment could kill Brainy or innocent bystanders. Excuse me? Surely there are better ways to shut down equipment than by blasting them. I don’t mind them obeying orders to shut down experiments with time, but doing so in such a careless way is just moronic.

Lori is easily distracted, like many children her age. I barely understood her explanation myself, especially at the end. And this comes from me reading the previous issue! (Rond’s “you lost me” line is comedic and perfectly executed by the way).

Cos’ concern for XS is on-the-spot, and Jenni would surely have been happy to know that Cos was concerned. Sadly, he doesn’t seem to be at all concerned for Brainy. First time I read this issue I was perplexed; Cos is the leader! Didn’t he authorize Brainy’s invention? Of course, reading all the issues in order made me realize that Brainy invented the time machine himself; but it just seemed odd that Cos wouldn’t defend Brainy. President’s orders, huh? But how will they find XS now with Brainy in jail and time research outlawed? Surely he could have tried to explain that?

Imra’s a bit like a Mama Bear here. “Cos, give it a rest! Lori, SPEAK!” Heh. That is so Imra.

Gim is the quintessential soldier here. I don’t begrudge him his siding with the Science Police; surely he didn’t know they would shut down the machinery so violently, and potentially kill Brainy. I do agree with him though – don’t mess with things you don’t understand, especially when the Legion is already consulting an expert who could possibly properly extract Brainy.

Brainy is, as usual, smart and arrogant. He shines in his scenes here.

Finally, we devote one page to Kinetix. Poor Zoe, she looks in dire straits here. I’m surprised she survived so long myself; maybe the Stargate space warped time somehow and she exited some time in the future. I mean, we last saw her in LSH 71, before the White Triangle members attacked Earth. That has got to be at least a few weeks in Legion time (since then, they buried their dead, fought Dr. Regulus, Garth and Ayla defeated Mekt, and they freed Valor from the timestream). In any case, it’s good they haven’t forgotten totally about her.

Violet certainly hasn’t forgotten; her few panels show she’s still very much worried about Zoe. I think this is the first we’ve seen (of actual worry, I mean) since the White Triangle war. Good to know Vi’s continuing her search; looks like their friendship remains strong.

All in all, a good and enjoyable issue. The art is good, the action is easy to follow, the characters are developed further with the cast being juggled well. Of course, more and more questions arise – why does Chu hate time travel so much? Why is Cos acting the way he is? And how the heck is the Legion supposed to survive, with a wrecked HQ and a dwindling membership? Since LSH Annual 6, we’ve lost Kinetix, Apparition, Andromeda, XS and now Brainiac 5! The memberships of Live Wire, Element Lad and Ultra Boy have also been blocked, and Spark is on Winath – we’re down to only 7 Legionnaires from a peak of 13. Grim times, indeed…


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: 2-Timer
Gaseous Lad #1016489 07/05/22 05:07 PM
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So part 1.

I have to admit that I'm not a fan of Moder's as he seems a bit inconsistent at times. Some panels come across a little too scratchy for my tastes. That said, he does an adequate job telling the story that has parallels happening in the past and future. I'm assuming that we get to see the future scenes revisited in the next issue of Legionnaires for part 2.

When I first read this at release, I am confident that I did not read the actual Underworld Unleashed comic itself. At this point, and honestly I think after Bloodlines, I kind of got away from the label-spanning summer crossovers, so I just kind of ran with (ha!) where the story was taking me.

It was good to get back to XS after she was lost in the timestream during Future Tense. Like Ibby said in the review above, Jenni really handles herself well in this crisis situation not panicking and saving the day by fixing the glove AND rescuing both herself and the other boys. It did make me wonder though - if Chronos was using Lori and aging her, was she actually younger than ten?

The Legion in the future paralleling the events in the past was cool. I'm definitely into that kind of thing. Given this is a time-sensitive issue, we finally get to see Rond Vidar back, and I had hoped he would have a bigger role to play outside the Lori Morning story.

Oh, and a quick PS - I'm not going to cover the Flash & Impulse issues here, but I do remember XS in the 20th C as being a big shot in the arm for me reading them at the time!

Last edited by Gaseous Lad; 07/05/22 05:08 PM.

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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: 2-Timer
Gaseous Lad #1016498 07/05/22 11:15 PM
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no apologies needed GL, just glad this is starting up again smile

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: 2-Timer
Gaseous Lad #1016502 07/05/22 11:56 PM
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I agree that this two-parter did a good job of showing the past/future action seamlessly. Those pages with things happening in parallel were gold. still confused as to how we had a "dead" Chronos and a new Chronos showing up later. but I try not to think about that too much lol



I, sadly, read the main Underworld Unleashed mini. The first issue was solid enough, but the rest were terrible.

re Lori's actual age, I think her age after Rond de-ages her in Legionnaires 44 is her true age. So basically, when we first meet her she's aged just enough that her dad would notice... so a few years. Basically, hitting puberty a tad early


XS got some good use in the 20th C from what I remember smile

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: 2-Timer
Invisible Brainiac #1016507 07/06/22 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
I agree that this two-parter did a good job of showing the past/future action seamlessly. Those pages with things happening in parallel were gold. still confused as to how we had a "dead" Chronos and a new Chronos showing up later. but I try not to think about that too much lol

Indeed! If I think about it (not too much, as it gives me a headache), the two dead Chronoses could be some kind of quantum parallel universes. Who knows, maybe one is a completely different universe that never had DnA. wink laugh

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
I, sadly, read the main Underworld Unleashed mini. The first issue was solid enough, but the rest were terrible.

How many of the actual series were there? There were so many tie ins, it was crazy. But I think the editor box made an error here, as I don't think the events with Neron happen in UU#1.

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
re Lori's actual age, I think her age after Rond de-ages her in Legionnaires 44 is her true age. So basically, when we first meet her she's aged just enough that her dad would notice... so a few years. Basically, hitting puberty a tad early

Right as she turns 11 in that issue, where she officially becomes the Danny Chase of the Legion. laugh

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
XS got some good use in the 20th C from what I remember smile

100%. That was a great time for the Flash books!


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: 2-Timer
Gaseous Lad #1016509 07/06/22 08:55 AM
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Ok, Part 2 I definitely enjoyed more than part 1 - partially because I think Jeff Moy's art is vastly better, but also the story was much more linear while also addressing some hanging issues from part 1.

Starting with the collapse of the suddenly aged corner structure, the building collapses and Valor goes into rescue mode. The roll call was neat with the Legionnaires in jeopardy and Cham & Vi not being visible. For bonus points, the section of the collapse maps directly to the location of Brainy's lab as depicted in the map in the Year One annual.

The news reporter in front of HQ is a great way to pull in new readers and get them up to speed - that was well done. Vi searching for Zoe here was where I first started to think that there could be something to a Vi/Zoe relationship versus the classic Vi/Ayla relationship that had been paused with the end of the classic run a couple years earlier. It showed a Legionnaire actively trying to connect with another, which we didn't see much of up to this point outside of Jo/Tinya, and this would be flipped later on when Vi went missing, which was also a nice touch. Of course Zoe herself is in jeopardy and spirited off to parts unknown!

Rokk & Imra at the Time institute kind of rubbed me the wrong way. After making a big deal in part 1 about ixnay on the ImeTraveltay, he goes to the Institute and starts blathering on. So much for OpSec... Anyway, that propels the rest of the story where we get the breakdown of the UU plot and the attempt to rescue Brainy. This also has the simultaneous affect of explaining the Chronos bit, at least to me - Chronos brought young Lori into the future to get the time platform. Shenanigans ensued that aged the HQ and killed Chronos in the future. Further Shenanigans to get Brainy back reanimate Chronos and send him back into the past where he dies for good. So the end of LSH 75 happens after the end of Legionnaires 32. smile

I didn't get the sense that Rokk was playing cheops just yet with Chu, so his behavior in this issue was kind of grating. Liked it overall, though.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: 2-Timer
Gaseous Lad #1016532 07/07/22 03:31 AM
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yup great points there, I loved the scenes with Mon rushing through HQ, saving Athramites and Shvaughn. And the slow recovery/unearthing of various Legionnnaires from the rubble

yeah, Rokk was super careless in the Time Institute. this carelessness also made Brainy's arrest, and Cos' inaction, even more glaring! (of course, a few issues later will make it clear Cos was playing along, but without that foreknowledge this seemed really bad!)

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: 2-Timer
Invisible Brainiac #1016533 07/07/22 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
a few issues later will make it clear Cos was playing along, but without that foreknowledge this seemed really bad!

That's part of what I'm a bit confused about - Is Rokk already playing her at this point?


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: 2-Timer
Gaseous Lad #1016537 07/07/22 11:11 AM
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At least Chronos got a costume upgrade - goodbye to those striped pants!

This was a pretty fast-paced story, especially part 2. We were kept up to date on Valor's situation and Kinetix's status (unclear, but she's still in the story - and I thought about how happy IB must have been when her page appeared). It's good to see Lyle demonstrate his scientific skill - and still at odds with Rokk's orders.

I also thought the two-era simultaneous events was pretty cool.

Cos does come off as a jerk (and I don't recall if he was on to Chu at this point and if Brainy was also in on it), but it's consistent with his play by the rules approach to leadership. Others might not like it, but they probably wouldn't be surprised that he let Brainy be carted off by the SPs.

Lori Morning was usually a character that elicited groans from me, but she seemed authentic here, except that she didn't appear to greatly bothered about her father's death, just excited that she had aged into a young woman.

One quibble was with Jenni de-aging the boys, then herself - so why couldn't Chronos just keep aging and de-aging one person?

Originally Posted by GL
For bonus points, the section of the collapse maps directly to the location of Brainy's lab as depicted in the map in the Year One annual.

A good eye for detail you have there!


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: 2-Timer
Gaseous Lad #1016554 07/08/22 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Gaseous Lad
Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
a few issues later will make it clear Cos was playing along, but without that foreknowledge this seemed really bad!

That's part of what I'm a bit confused about - Is Rokk already playing her at this point?

He should be. In Legionnaires 29, we have a page where Cos is talking to Chu, and in the background we see an Omnicom "flying" around - Cos can see it as it is behind Chu. The flying around bit is likely an invisible Lyle's work.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: 2-Timer
Fat Cramer #1016555 07/08/22 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
At least Chronos got a costume upgrade - goodbye to those striped pants!

This was a pretty fast-paced story, especially part 2. We were kept up to date on Valor's situation and Kinetix's status (unclear, but she's still in the story - and I thought about how happy IB must have been when her page appeared). It's good to see Lyle demonstrate his scientific skill - and still at odds with Rokk's orders.

Indeed, great point FC, the new costume looks much sleeker and intimidating than the original!


Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Cos does come off as a jerk (and I don't recall if he was on to Chu at this point and if Brainy was also in on it), but it's consistent with his play by the rules approach to leadership. Others might not like it, but they probably wouldn't be surprised that he let Brainy be carted off by the SPs.

Lori Morning was usually a character that elicited groans from me, but she seemed authentic here, except that she didn't appear to greatly bothered about her father's death, just excited that she had aged into a young woman.


If I am right, Brainy was not in on it - Brainy mentions later in LSH 80 that he was also fooled by Cos' act.

And agree re Lori, she comes across as more likable and mature here, than in many of her later appearances! (even when she gets aged to adulthood!)

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: 2-Timer
Invisible Brainiac #1016556 07/08/22 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Originally Posted by Gaseous Lad
Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
a few issues later will make it clear Cos was playing along, but without that foreknowledge this seemed really bad!

That's part of what I'm a bit confused about - Is Rokk already playing her at this point?

He should be. In Legionnaires 29, we have a page where Cos is talking to Chu, and in the background we see an Omnicom "flying" around - Cos can see it as it is behind Chu. The flying around bit is likely an invisible Lyle's work.

YES! When you said that, I remember it from my original read way back (oddly enough) but I completely missed that detail this time! laugh


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: 2-Timer
Invisible Brainiac #1016557 07/08/22 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
If I am right, Brainy was not in on it - Brainy mentions later in LSH 80 that he was also fooled by Cos' act.

And agree re Lori, she comes across as more likable and mature here, than in many of her later appearances! (even when she gets aged to adulthood!)


I think I've mentioned this before but Lori - in addition to the obvious Glorith connotation - was (according to one creator I spoke with) going to be a cypher for exploring the UP worlds at one point - similar to how she's in awe of 30th century Metropolis ("everything looks like the mall") she'd have some kind of views on other worlds. Obviously that never happens and she becomes the Danny Chase of the Legion. smile


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: 2-Timer
Gaseous Lad #1016616 07/10/22 01:47 AM
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What could have been... smile

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1016624 07/10/22 10:14 AM
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Okay, next up - the Starfinger story, part 1. LSH 75 & Legionnaires 33!
Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legion of Super-Heroes 76
Bouncing Back


Issue Information

Summary:

New members Star Boy and Gates, as well as architect Chuck Taine, meet a frosty reception at Legion HQ. The team's morale is at possibly its lowest point yet, as Leviathan comes to blows with Cosmic Boy while Invisible Kid pulls Triad, Chameleon and Violet together into an Espionage Squad.

Spark returns and is punished by Cos. Valor leaves, frustrated at having to remain in hiding. Violet has a crisis of confidence after feeling ignored and searching for Kinetix in vain.

Kinetix awakens on the Sorceror's World, tended to by an old hag called Mysa who hints about power!

Winema Wazzo confronts Ultra Boy, who confesses his love for Tinya and wished that he had died instead. In a fit of emotion, she urges him to destroy Legion HQ to prevent more teens from dying.

President Chu shuts down the Time Institute in order to clamp down on time travel, and the issue ends with the Institute being attacked by a villain who looks like Starfinger... and who was sent by a mysterious woman!

Thoughts:

A lot happens in this issue - most of it unrelated, but at the same time there is a sense that many plot threads (the Xanthian member mentioned in LSH 66, Kinetix's fate, Lyle's dissatisfaction with Cos, Valor's fate) are starting to progress. But the threads are discrete enough that it feels like a jumbled mess with too much going on. It's easy to empathize with the overwhelmed Legionnaires.

The issue itself reads like a mish-mash of fleeting scenes with little true resolution. Lyle, Cham and Lu are together in one scene; suddenly, we see Lyle alone in one scene and Lu alone in another; then the three are together again. Gates and Star Boy join together but don't do anything. We don't get any hints as to what Lyle is planning.

On the plus side, there were plenty of little character moments. I know I was tickled pink by the introductions of Chuck Taine and Star Boy, and the return (and membership!) of Gates!

Gates easily stole the show, his snarky and opinionated comments had me cracking up (. And teleportation is way up high on my list of cool, tactically advantageous powers.

Chuck looks to be on his way to becoming unofficial Chief of Morale yet again (a moniker he took early in the Preboot!), and it's a welcome ray of light in these depressing times. Having him be an architect adds a nice dimension to the character. And his speech at the end - "We'd all be dead if not for the Legion!" - made me cheer. Come on Legionnaires, get your act together!

Finally, Star Boy's intro also is a nice nod to his Preboot days - the space-cruiser accident (which caused him to miss out on a lot of action!) and his friendliness.

Leviathan vs. Cos - Cos at least had the wits to stop the fight. At least he's still not a total wreck (though he does diss Marla and yells at the other Legionnaires). I don't side with his decisions, but he came out better here. Gim pushes an innocent Cham without provocation, and I'm sure he threw the first punch. Gim does have a point, though. Poor Marla tries unsuccessfully to diffuse the tension; it seems the Legion's adult advisor doesn't hold much sway here.

Kinetix is safe (thank grife!), but is still intent on power. Let's not forget that her lust for power caused her to be depowered in the first place, and nearly got her killed. Having her be found by the magical Mysa is a slight confidence booster, but doesn't soothe my fears entirely. Remember, Mysa as the Hag was one of the bad guys. So it remains to be seen - will she ultimately be evil in this reality?

Poor Violet is burning herself out with worry over Zoe. Vi seems to be the only one who IS worried; she was closest to Zoe, but I'd still expect the others (including the besotted Gim!) to worry about her a little bit. To add to her inner turmoil, Gim remarks that he should be the one worrying about Zoe, because of the way she used to smile at him. An annoyed Violet shrinks away with the classic line - "maybe she was laughing at your hat!", which causes Gim to remove his headgear.

Anyway, poor Vi's feelings are sad AND realistic; her closest friend is missing, Spark gets so much attention, and it looks like Vi has a crush on Gim - who has a crush on Zoe! Oy! She knows they are her friends, and she knows she has to be more assertive. I look forward to seeing a more confident Vi.

The Spark secret admirer subplot is revisited again, though all we really know is that someone is going through a lot of effort! Tenzil? Lyle? Someone else entirely? I don't mind Cos' punishment of Spark too much, though the unspecified duration IS a bit harsh. But we can't have a superhero team whose members just go running around without at least keeping the leader informed.

Touching moment between Jo and Winema is ruined by Winema's deep-seated anger and hatred. She accepts that Jo loved Tinya, but then urges him to destroy Legion HQ. Whooo. Say... wasn't there some other powerful being who is being used as a puppet by someone? Someone who wants to take the Legion down?

The mysterious Starfinger is eerie AND terribly powerful, and like in the Preboot seems to be a puppet. I'm interested to see where this goes.

The hormones are flying! Lori hates being treated like a kid, but still acts like one. Rond is devastated by the Time Institute shutdown, but we know he'll be okay.

And of course, the Science Police are being a tad bull-headed. Ah well.

Overall, this story was a big jumble. There's a sense of movement, but it's all confused. Too much is happening, and it's a big change of pace from the last few 2-parter stories. I got the sense that the writers were making up for lost time, so to speak; they just finished a couple of tie-in/crossover stories which they were forced to tell, and as a result a lot of the other scenes and developments they had been meaning to work on were bumped to this issue.

On the plus side, the massive number of developments does make me excited to see what happens next. It also gives a feeling that - maybe - there will be some sort of grand culmination of all these plot threads soon.

The art is serviceable, and Lee Moder is doing a good job helping us follow the action.


Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legionnaires 33
The Inhuman Touch


Issue Information

Summary:

We continue from LSH 76, with the mysterious masked man who looks like Preboot Starfinger attacking the Time Institute. Despite antagonism from some Science Police officers, Saturn Girl and Rond Vidar manage to stop him, though he escapes.

The masked man later appears on Guron, a technologically backward world that is negotiating to join the UP. Chu sends the Legionnaires to stop him, but he takes most of them out - disintegrating the Legion cruiser AND Invisible Kid's flight ring, sending a tower crashing onto Leviathan's head, and "disintegrating" the oxygen around the others. Only Shrinking Violet remains, and she charges him as the issue ends.

Subplots:

1) We see a gift flying invisibly towards Spark while she's on Monitor Duty. Spark immediately figures out that it must be Lyle's doing, as he's the only male on the team who could have left it without her noticing.

2) A call from their mom shows that Live Wire left Winath almost immediately after Spark did.

3) Leviathan puts Star Boy and Gates through training. An injured Star Boy suddenly manifests electrical vision powers which he can't control. Gates continues to show contempt for the Legion, while Leviathan is still angry at Cosmic Boy for admitting Star Boy and Gates, but not Ultra Boy or Jan Arrah.

4) Lori Morning explores Metropolis on her own. She mistakes an alien shop owner for a pet. The Science Police are called in after the alien accuses her of harassment.

5) Violet's bravery at the end of the issue is also highlighted in more quiet scenes. She steps in to stop Cos and Imra from arguing heatedly about Lori by reminding them they are supposed to be friends. And when Spark gloats about Lyle being her secret admirer, Violet simply says she used to be jealous, but thought about it and would rather be happy for her. (A sharp contrast to LSH 76, where she was crying in bed about being ignored!)

6) On Takron-Galtos, the warden tries interrogating Brainiac 5 to figure out what he knows about time travel. He promises to try worse.

7) Kinetix recovers on the Sorceror's World. Mysa shows her an image of the Emerald Eye and says they need to find and destroy it before it possesses anyone else. Enthralled, Kinetix thinks the Eye is beautiful.

Thoughts

A lot happens this issue, with all the subplots being developed. And most of those don't seem related to the main plot. Instead, the Legion's diverse cast continues to get developed.

Right now it still feels a bit like the Legion is caught up in events, rather than shaping them. Mysterious masked man out to destroy them (we know his "master" wants him to destroy the Legion, but is the Time Institute also a target?). Using him to lure the Legion to Guron was clever, it's not a UP world so there would be less of a chance of someone assisting the Legionnaires.

Star Boy's electrical vision powers are a throwback to the Adventure Era, where he temporarily had Superboy-like powers. Poor Star Boy is a bit of a clumsy knucklehead here. In training, Leviathan tells him to stop Chameleon - Thom does so by sinking him into the ground with his gravity powers, damaging the gym. Gim predictably gets mad, and I agree with Gim here. Powers should be used responsibly, people.

Gates, on the other hand, shows much better power control. And nearly every line is a gem. "Training for what? Assassination? Torture? No thanks!" Later on when Cos tells the Legion to "watch him for cues", Gates goes, "have no fear master, we wouldn't DREAM of thinking for ourselves!" (to which Cos retorts, "Gates...SHUT UP!" That made me laugh out loud. Two issues in and I already love Gates.

Lyle's fear of heights is mentioned again, in battle - did the Masked Man know that, and is that why it was Lyle's flight ring he destroyed? Lyle does sneak in a fun snarky line. Leviathan tells him to hold on, to which Lyle responds, "If there was anything to hang on to, there wouldn't be a problem, would there?"

Imra's hand-to-hand continues to shine, by the way. She beats the masked man at the Time Institute with her fists and flight ring as she can't hit him telepathically.

All in all, a nice issue. Lots of character moments, some good action. The main drawback is that the overall plot does not seem to move forward so much, and the Legion is still stuck in a rather unpleasant relationship with the UP and the Science Police. On the plus side, while that atmosphere is felt this issue, it's quite a bit more upbeat than the last one was and the Legionnaires act like a much better unit in battle.

Lastly, as a Kinetix fan, I have to comment - the cover features her finding the Emerald Eye, but she only gets two pages in the issue! Whaaaat! tongue


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1016661 07/11/22 03:41 AM
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Gim was really a hothead - drill sarge type. He calls out Cosmic Boy for not supporting Brainiac 5 during his arrest... but then ruins it a bit by insulting Star Boy and Gates AND shoving Chameleon. tsk. come ON, Gim. You had the moral high ground... and not even an apology for almost killing Chuck and Marla.

Gates mentions weight when teleporting, and we see some attempts to limit his power. It IS a useful one... we've also seen attempts to limit Saturn Girl's telepathy, and of course for Andromeda we have that handy lead weakness too.

I have to reiterate how much I love Gates, almost every one-liner is just comedy gold!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Invisible Brainiac #1016669 07/11/22 07:22 AM
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LSH 76 -

The first appearance of the "L" shield on the cover! I found the intro scene fun, mainly due to the intro of Chuck, Thom and the re-introduction of Gates, this time as a formal member. A lot happens to help the new reader understand what's going on via the script, which shows nice technique on the part of Peyer. The fight between Cos & Gim was kind of interesting, with Gim looking like the bigger jerk in the end. Great comment from Thom about more than the HQ building needing help.

Starfinger's introduction is appropriately sinister. Very interesting that the "person in the shadows" is definitively drawn as female.

Spark finally returns back to HQ, and Cos punishes her with monitor duty. At least Spark isn't disrespectful of Cos here - she knows she ran out w/o permission. Lyle, Lu and Reep (especially Lyle) treat new Chuck dismissively, but Lyle wants the E-squad to work against Cos.

Jo's encounter with Winema has never sat well with me here. He's all teary about being so in love with Tinya, but they've known each other for like a month. Their relationship always felt rushed to me and this further drives that home.

I really enjoyed the scene with Vi & Spark. There's a lot said and unsaid on page 14 that shows Vi's lonliness without her best friend around, as well as Spark's naturally outgoing nature. Back in the day this was the page that killed the theory that Vi was Ayla's secret admirer in the online community. smile The other page with Vi, where she and Leviathan are in the gym, we get a fun moment where Gim thinks very highly of himself regarding Zoe, but her making fun of his hat is telling - he never wears his headgear again after this.

Speaking of Zoe, her little scene was fun, but her face at the mention of power was a bit... unsettling.

Page 19 also has a lot going on here - we see Violet making a tough decision that will have ramifications later, but the mess hall scene is great. The placement of the characters is well done - Cos & Gim are sitting alone at their respective tables. The e-squad has their own & the new kids have their own table. Not sure exactly why Gim is so glum, to be honest. Reep's eating habits reminded me of Jar Jar Binks in Star Wars Ep 1 - about four years before it came out! But in the end, Chuck is the one that throws a cold bucket of water over the Legionnaires' attitudes - and rightly so.

The Starfinger cliffhanger is GREAT.

The last comment that I'll make about this issue is that I'm very much reminded of the tone of the majority of the Threeboot as I read this story. Its probably because I'm in the middle of a re-read of that run, but I'm struck with the level of enmity and dissatisfaction within the team, both between the characters individually, but also with certain factions vs Cosmic Boy, especially regarding his relationship with UP Leadership. As with the Threeboot, partly because its a setup story and partly because of the negative character attitudes, the issue doesn't hold up quite as well. Like with the 3boot, I only felt satisfied when the team got their comeuppance at some level - in this case when Chuck told them to check their attitudes at the door. So there are a lot of little character moments that are fascinating to read, especially in hindsight, but the whole of this issue doesn't sit as well with me.

Legionnaires 33 -

Picking up with Starfinger's attack on the Time Institute, we see Imra really taking charge in a good way, bringing the fight directly to Starfinger. His reluctance to harm Imra directly in the first clue that there's something bigger going on with this guy.

Ayla's moment seems a bit of an ADHD's dream page - Ayla's bored, the secret admirer strikes again, Ayla's mom doesn't like her hair, Garth has run away again, but all of that doesn't matter as she discovers the new gift, obviously put there by Lyle.

The moment in the gym sets up the dynamic of Gim being overly hard on Thom, with Thom wanting to impress Gim. The though balloon of Lu imagining Gim is one of the best panels ever. Thom's power going haywire is a homage to the Adventure Days that appeared pretty quickly, I thought. But I agree with Ibby - Gates always get the best lines. Always. smile

Cos' comment about Starfinger - "Missing a page" - was great, and a good way of communicating an overwhelmed leader very quickly.

The next few pages has another collection of events that provide setups - For the main story, we have the Legion heading to Guron, but then Lori goes exploring Metropolis, Brainy is brooding in prison, and Kinetix talking to Mysa on Sorcere's world. The Kinetix scene is interesting for two reasons - it introduces her to the Emerald Eye and the beginning of her charge to destroy it (and her obvious infatuation with it), but also the explicit pointing out that the relationship Zoe has with Violet is definitely more than any she has with the other Legionnaires (which includes Gim wink ).

On Guron, the mission goes to hell really quickly as Starfinger disintegrates the air. Which kinda doesn't make sense, but whatever. smile I guess he kept on saying disintegrate to keep disintegrating the air that kept rushing in. But Vi says she's escaping the gas? I dunno. That's a bit confusing, but it sets up a great cliffhanger!

Definitely like the Moy art more than the Moder work from LSH 75, but that's nothing new from me.

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Gates mentions weight when teleporting, and we see some attempts to limit his power. It IS a useful one... we've also seen attempts to limit Saturn Girl's telepathy, and of course for Andromeda we have that handy lead weakness too.

These are all great points, and Gates' powers have a lot of potential challenges depending on how close to science a writer would want to skew. For example, if Gates were on a space ship in orbit, he couldn't teleport to the surface in a "Hard SF" setting, as he'd be going SO FAST in orbit, he'd have to have some way of dissipating that energy off somewhere mid-teleport, or he'd fly away super fast in an instant!


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1016691 07/12/22 01:30 AM
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thanks for that bit of science re Gates teleporting from orbit!

yeah, these issues where full of little character bits and interactions. Chuck giving everyone a small wake-up call was great. The exposition during the Cos/Gim fight was well done and did not seem repetitive. Vi falling all to pieces over Zoe, wow!

and yes, Zoe and power tongue

Also the Espionage Squad set-up is coming along nicely


and indeed, some great hand-to-hand from Imra vs. Starfinger - I think her first really good hand-to-hand fight since her introduction, if I am right.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Invisible Brainiac #1016697 07/12/22 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
thanks for that bit of science re Gates teleporting from orbit!

Its a weird bit that I learned from reading those "behind the Sci Fi" books that have been published forever. I think it was probably around the Star Trek transporter. smile

Quote
Chuck giving everyone a small wake-up call was great.

I think narratively, it was the best part of the issue for me.

Quote
and indeed, some great hand-to-hand from Imra vs. Starfinger - I think her first really good hand-to-hand fight since her introduction, if I am right.

I think you're right about that. For most of the rest of the Legion since the founding, she's mainly doing the mind-thing, but she's also usually with someone else to handle the brawling.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1016719 07/13/22 06:26 AM
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Quote
in this case when Chuck told them to check their attitudes at the door
I remember this bit!

I remember I wasn't wild about Chuck being relegated to support status in the reboot, but that speech was a really good way of very quickly showing that he was going to be treated respectfully as a member of the cast and not just be an easter egg.

The Bouncing Boy was another one, but I guess that's a long time coming yet wink

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
razsolo #1016720 07/13/22 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by razsolo
Quote
in this case when Chuck told them to check their attitudes at the door
I remember this bit!

I remember I wasn't wild about Chuck being relegated to support status in the reboot, but that speech was a really good way of very quickly showing that he was going to be treated respectfully as a member of the cast and not just be an easter egg.

The Bouncing Boy was another one, but I guess that's a long time coming yet wink

And for me being a new Legion reader at the time of publication only had a second hand knowledge about Bouncing Boy historically. So this version of Chuck felt like a cool addition, kind of like Tenzil.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1016722 07/13/22 11:35 AM
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The multiple plots were a plus for me - kept every pot boiling. It did feel a bit chaotic, but the Legion is in a bit of disarray at this point. Cos seems to be in over his head with no deputy-like support. He's got two new members, one who isn't 100% functional and one who absolutely doesn't want to be there, one other member in prison, one missing, one pretending to be dead, Valor under wraps and a time-displaced kid wandering around. It's pretty sneaky of Lyle to organize action against Cos, but that's espionage for you. Don't know if they'll ever really resolve their differences.

Gates is pretty heavy on the politics here - I remember him from later, more toned down. But he still rises to the occasion to rescue people.

Chuck does shine here, the outsider voice that can speak to everyone. It's cool that he's an architecture student and not some slacker cutting out of work to go to a ballgame.

The scene in the lunchroom with the different groups was great! Sometimes you don't need words.

Mysa the Hag AND the Emerald Eye - that's an interesting mix of Legion history. You just figure Zoe's headed for big trouble here.

A few teasers for Spark's admirer. Whoever it is is going overboard with the gifts. Violet's reaction shows that she's growing in self-confidence; I wonder if she was a favourite of Peyer and McCraw.

GL has a point that Jo is unbelievably devastated by Tinya's death - he's supposed to be a tough guy - but maybe it's partly guilt that he couldn't save her.

Lori's scene with the store owner was very funny.

Always liked Lee Moder's skinny Legionnaires! I may be in the minority and have only encountered one other fan as enthusiastic as I am. smile


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Fat Cramer #1016742 07/14/22 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
The multiple plots were a plus for me - kept every pot boiling. It did feel a bit chaotic, but the Legion is in a bit of disarray at this point. Cos seems to be in over his head with no deputy-like support. He's got two new members, one who isn't 100% functional and one who absolutely doesn't want to be there, one other member in prison, one missing, one pretending to be dead, Valor under wraps and a time-displaced kid wandering around. It's pretty sneaky of Lyle to organize action against Cos, but that's espionage for you. Don't know if they'll ever really resolve their differences.

great point, FC. I remember feeling sympathy for Cos at times during this era - who would not be stressed, with all that going on? also with Brainy in jail, nobody can search for XS...

re missing Zoe, it was an interesting / nice touch that Mysa mentioned casting a spell so nobody else would worry. Did Gim already start flirting with her at this point? ah yes, Gim mentioned that to Vi in the scene where she insulted his "silly hat" (and immediately shrank out of sight, lol!) And the Mysa scene ties into this, with Vi's friendship being stronger than Gim's crush - I liked that bit

re Moder, I remember reading an opinion that Moder's skinny frames fit the Leigonnaires' young ages. always found that an interesting point. even Jo and Gim and Thom, the "buffest" ones, are still more lean and mean than bulky. Lyle and Garth and Brainy are quite a bit skinnier.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Fat Cramer #1016745 07/14/22 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Chuck does shine here, the outsider voice that can speak to everyone. It's cool that he's an architecture student and not some slacker cutting out of work to go to a ballgame.

Yeah I never really liked the original origin story.

Quote
Mysa the Hag AND the Emerald Eye - that's an interesting mix of Legion history. You just figure Zoe's headed for big trouble here.

Yep, lots of bad rolled into one. smile

Quote
A few teasers for Spark's admirer. Whoever it is is going overboard with the gifts. Violet's reaction shows that she's growing in self-confidence; I wonder if she was a favourite of Peyer and McCraw.

Agree that the secret admirer went overboard. smile

And its a good question about Peyer & McCraw's view on Vi. I know that Jeff Moy has said that he felt the upcoming storyline that features her was the best one of their run.

Quote
GL has a point that Jo is unbelievably devastated by Tinya's death - he's supposed to be a tough guy - but maybe it's partly guilt that he couldn't save her.

This is a great point - I would have accepted this scene a lot easier, even back when I originally read this, if they had focused on Jo's guilt versus love. In the end, the writers fast tracked Jo/Tinya after a five year run of having them separated.

Quote
Always liked Lee Moder's skinny Legionnaires! I may be in the minority and have only encountered one other fan as enthusiastic as I am. smile

I mean, Moder had some great individual panels, but at the end of the day it was just a personal opinion on the overall work. I think for me the bodies were OK, but the faces seemed to be way older than they were. The scene that stands out to me is when Kinetix was introduced, her little brother Thanot looked to be about 35. laugh


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Invisible Brainiac #1016746 07/14/22 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
great point, FC. I remember feeling sympathy for Cos at times during this era - who would not be stressed, with all that going on? also with Brainy in jail, nobody can search for XS...

Me too - I had been in a few scenarios where I felt overwhelmed and felt that it was portrayed in a relatable way.

Quote
re missing Zoe, it was an interesting / nice touch that Mysa mentioned casting a spell so nobody else would worry. Did Gim already start flirting with her at this point? ah yes, Gim mentioned that to Vi in the scene where she insulted his "silly hat" (and immediately shrank out of sight, lol!) And the Mysa scene ties into this, with Vi's friendship being stronger than Gim's crush - I liked that bit

re Zoe/Gim, it seemed to me that she was more flirty towards him rather than vice versa - that started a little bit later. Until it ended. smile


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Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Starfinger Pt 2
Gaseous Lad #1016807 07/17/22 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legion of Super-Heroes 77
Lock Up

Issue information

Summary:

The Warden of Takron-Galtos illegally enlists Nara Minsork, a roge Titanian, to probe Brainiac 5's mind and learn the secrets of time travel.

Minsork uses illegal technology to dig into Brainiac 5's mind, and finds his memory of the last time he felt pleasant - the day he was born.

Yet, Brainy's memory of that moment is objective because he already forgot what he felt. And that's why he wanted to travel through time - it was the only way for him to see his mother's face again, as Colu expunged all records of her. Brainy uses his complete control of his mind to threaten Minsork that he will trap her in it, unless she gives up this memory and allow him to suppress it again.

Thoughts:

The issue is told from the point of view of Nara Minsork, not of Brainiac 5. It actually works here; Minsork's telepathy allows us to see how a Coluan's mind would differ from an ordinary sentient. And to also see how far advanced Brainy's 12th level intelligence is from the typical Coluan's.

It also makes for more dramatic reveals of Brainy's time on Colu. He was bored to death simply because he was so much smarter than everyone else. This lets us see his isolation. I'm reminded of a similar insight with Marvel's Quicksilver, where he likens his super-speed to living in a world where he is always "stuck in line" with slow-moving people - explaining his impatience. This explains Brainy's own impatience with much less intelligent people.

The issue gives more key insights into Brainy:

1) He does not attach much emotional significance to most of his life

2) Besides his birth, a key event was when the Coluans kicked Brainy out of Colu because he kept running experiments without proper clearance. Nobody else on Colu was smart enough to understand what he was doing, so to prevent him from "destroying the planet", he was "given away" to work for RJ Brande.

3) Brainy kept blowing up Brande Industries labs. Brande found him an internship at the Time Institute...

4) ... but Brainy was pulled away from there when he was drafted into the Legion. His Legion career was full of boredom and annoyance at being distracted, and jealousy at the attention Invisible Kid got from inventing the flight rings from Brainy's discarded experiment...

5) Except for Andromeda, whom he was fascinated with. He was genuinely sad at her death. but the issue implies that he didn't so much as crush on Andromeda, as he was fascinated because she physically resembled Brainy's mom (tall, blonde). Andromeda's death saddened Brainy because she reminded him of his mom.

All in all, a good story that really lets us get to know Brainiac 5. Nara Minsork isn't a shabby character either; an amoral woman who uses technology to break into Brainy's mind even though it risks shutting his mind down permanently. The Warden is also a good example of the corruption under Chu's UP - he knows hiring Minsork, a rogue telepath, is illegal; and he blackmails her into working for him. Yet, he is willing to do these because Chu is leaning on him to discover Brainy's secrets of time travel - despite time travel being outlawed by the UP! If we didn't already know Chu was bad news, this cements it for us.

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legionnaires 34
Fallen Star


Issue Information

Summary:

Picking up from the cliffhanger in L* 33, Shrinking Violet charges Starfinger. Too small to be affected by his powers, she manages to get close and beat him - though not without minor injuries. She finds, to her shock, that Starfinger is really Jan Arrah!

Back in Legion HQ, Saturn Girl telepathically probes Jan Arrah along with Cosmic Boy and Leviathan. From his memory, they see it was Winema Wazzo who captured and brainwashed him, in order to get revenge on the Legion for Apparition's death..

Cos, Gim and Lyle interrupt a UP session to show their video of Winema attacking Jan. President Chu and the other UP delegates start questioning Winema, but Chu interrupts to order Cos to freeze his video. In a scene showing Jan traveling as Starfinger, she points out a background image of a Sun-Eater! Chu brings the Legionnaires to the UP Secret Archive, and tells them about how dangerous the Sun-Eater is - that it can literally destroy stars. She also introduces the villains that Legion fans will know as the Fatal Five - besides Mano, there are Tharok, Validus, Persuader, and Empress (no Emerald!). In this reality, each was genetically engineered by their homeworlds to fight the Sun-Eater (or so Chu says). Lyle references his Earthgov past, saying the five were unoffically called the Fatal Five because of how dangerous they were.

Cos convenes the team, and the 10 remaining Legionnaires agree they are short-handed and need all the help they can get. Only Gates dissents; everyone else agrees to enlist the help of the Fatal Five.

Finally, Tharok gets a call from someone who says that the UP has dispatched the Legion to collect the Fatal Five, as planned. Tharok agrees to hold his end of the bargain - to kill the Legion.

Elsewhere...

1) We see Valor on Drak IV. A bunch of scavenging nomads have found a cache of very high-powered arms. After beating off their attack, Valor questions the nomads on where they found the arms; they say they just found them there. Valor destroys the arms and leaves the scavengers for the Science Police.

2) On the Sorcerer's World, Mysa restores Kinetix's power and sends her after the Emerald Eye.

3) Saturn Girl is called to pick up Lori Morning. The sentient that Lori petted is filing a complaint; Imra scolds him for not understanding that Lori made an honest mistake. Lori gets off with a warning.

4) Chuck Taine walks in on Violet as she changes. A stammering Chuck apologizes, while Violet is cool as a cucumber. Triad is surprised that Violet wasn't even embarrassed. Violet responds that she grew tired of resenting her teammates for just relaxing and having fun; she even chides herself for spending so much time searching for Kinetix, "like she isn't fully equipped to take care of herself!" Violet changes into a more revealing costume.

Thoughts:

I like the cover blurb (Shrinking Violent!) way better than the actual title (Fallen Star). Shrinking Violent is a nice play on words. Fallen Star does not really seem to fit, unless it refers to the brainwashed Jan? Or to the stars being devoured by the Sun-Eater? Or to Winema being caught in wrongdoing?

Speaking of, Winema's grief over Tinya's death, her previous animosity to the Legion, and her temperament all combine to make her a plausible villain.

Most of the issue's events seem to be a roller-coaster: first we have a brainwashed Jan Arrah (a powerful weapon indeed) attacking the Legion; then his memories show a Sun-Eater, which Chu immediately picks up on. Then the Legion is sent to gather the Fatal Five, and in the end someone is revealed to be pulling the strings to have the Fatal Five kill the Legion. I read these issues out of order, so I cannot say for sure if I would have been suspicious way back then... but the writers drop enough hints that I can imagine many savvy readers start questioning these events.

Valor acts a bit cocky here. After felling the nomads, he goes "Oh, come on. That was one punch." When he escapes the arriving Science Police, he tells the one conscious nomad, "Listen, I have a problem. I;m famous, see? And right now, I can't afford to be seen except by the stupid, the out-of-it...people like you." Whoa. Can't imagine Preboot Mon-El saying these things. But then again, we know this version of Lar Gand had a somewhat different reaction to his Phantom Zone imprisonment... and of course, he has his messiah status in this reality to deal with. I can understand him getting a bit of an attitude.

Leviathan is impatient and brash as usual, while Cos is much calmer and more even-tempered this issue. Lyle managed to weasel his way into confronting Chu, even if he wasn't part of Jan's mental probe. Did Cos decide to bring in him because of his experience with Earthgov?

Gates continues to be a star. With just one line, he probably brings in 90% of the humor in this issue - "I suppose if our reactionary president told you to jump into a black hole, you'd do that, too!" interestingly, Spark and Triad and Chameleon are among the ones to defend Cos, despite Spark and Triad at least having serious disagreements with him recently.

Violet's bravery against Jan isn't new - she showed the same fire versus Micro in LSH v4 66. But her demeanor outside of battle - not being fazed by Chuck walking in, wearing a more revealing costume - are completely new. Perhaps the writers had already decided to make her the Emerald Empress by this point, which would explain her sudden confidence boost. Of course, to the reader it should be a big clue that something is amiss, as she was so softspoken outside of battle before! Remember when Zoe was changing her outfits in Legionnaires 23?

As Future mentioned above, Kinetix's subplot moves along without developing her character any. In her one-page scene, she is still as eager as before to get power; and she never even thinks of the potential dangers of the Emerald Eye. She's my favorite Legionnaire, but I have to admit her subplot hasn't been doing her many favors yet.

Lori's subplot is almost as bad. Her running off is realistic, but what purpose does it serve? She got into trouble, then Imra got her out of trouble with her Imra-ness. Plenty of build up, no pay off.

As for the Fatal Five, not much has changed for Tharok, Validus or Persuader. We already know Mano is a very different character this reality. That leaves Empress:in terms of power, a big step down. No more Emerald Eye, so she is just a cruel killing machine - "she knows a thousand ways to kill a hundred different species". No evidence of any super powers. She likes to pass herself off as a political freedom fighter, so we are told. Maybe that is why she calls herself the Empress, I don't know.

This is another solid issue. Subplots don't add that much yet, but the main action is pretty gripping, if a bit fast-paced. It does move the overall story along quite a bit.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Starfinger Pt 2
Gaseous Lad #1016809 07/17/22 01:56 PM
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LSH 77 -

Brainy, imprisoned in Takron-Galtos, is interrogated by a new Telepath - Nara Minsork. I really thought this was a cool issue, as it was much more of a standalone episodic story compared to all the ongoings that had been happening since the relaunch. I found Nara to be a rather interesting character. A criminal telepath with a Saturn tattoo on her cheek was a fresh choice and I'm honestly surprised she wasn't used again. Hell, even Waid had a similar Threeboot character in Jeyla, but obviously made her a different character. Of course, through Nara we get that cool deep dive into Brainy's psyche, the background of the Brainiacs and some hints at Coluan civilization.

The second half of the book introduces some more fascinating concepts - tech-assisted telepathy (and Nara's VR suit) and Brainy viewing everyone else as apes, leading to his hiring by Brande. Lots of great background that helps flesh out Brainiac 5, that also makes you feel kind of sorry for him, or at least empathize with the character. Raised by robots in an uncaring environment. He definitely has feeling for Laurel, definitely has a thing for strong blonde women, as we see his mother, Brainiac 4, fits that motif. But tragically she leaves Colu after Querl's birth.

The revelation of Brainy's obsession over time travel to see his mother is pretty amazing. Of course, he shuts down Minsork out of his mind, and she gets dragged away by the warden.

Really loved this story and everything that was revealed here. Basically, I agree with all of Ibby's points above. smile Of course, the creative team totally ended up botching the story with his mother later on, but that's for a different day.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Starfinger Pt 2
Gaseous Lad #1016813 07/17/22 04:02 PM
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Legionnaires 34 -

We pick up from Legionnaires 33 and Violet takes care of business with Starfinger handily with the shocking revelation that Starfinger is a brainwashed Jan Arrah! This is the main plot thread of the issue, where Imra probes his mind to discover an apparent brainwashing by Winema Wazzo. When this recording is shown to President Chu she a) ignores the evidence implicating Wazzo and b) notices a small detail in the background - the Sun Eater is coming to town! Chu cancels all hearings and orders the Legion to recruit the Fatal Five. But on a mysterious world, Tharok receives a communication from a mysterious woman(?) to destroy the Legion.

The subplots work pretty well. We get a check-in on Valor, who is being an anonymous space vigilante, and Mysa smacks a tattoo, if not some sense, into Kinetix, forcing her to go find the Emerald Eye. Lori is re-aquired by Imra in a light but neat follow up scene with the canine-like store owner. Vi's scene is probably the most interesting, as to Ibby's comment, it signals something is in the air. Vi changing into a new costume - and keeping cool when Chuck barges in - definitely signals a change. While her ferocity with Starfinger was one thing, this is definitely a new aspect of Violet that bears attention.

This is probably one of my favorite individual issues of the reboot, as it's Jeff Moy's art and a heavy focus on Vi. I actually was able to get Jeff to autograph a copy for me last year! I think we can safely say, based on some sketch notes from Moy, that they had already mapped out what they were going to do at this point with Violet, the Eye and Kinetix. As we all know now, Kinetix was originally supposed to wield the Eye, but because the fans sussed it out, the writers changed at the last minute. But that had already happened at this point - in Jeff's notes, he says that Vi's uniform becoming more revealing was an expression of the confidence bestowed by the Eye, and this change was the first visible manifestation of that.

Agree that the Lori page was kind of a waste, but they had to rein her in, I guess.

The other big flag that something is off is the revelation and confrontation about Winema Wazzo. They deliver seemingly hard evidence, and nothing is done but focusing on a small background detail that sends the story off into an entirely different direction, which is confirmed when we meet Tharok at the end. But the Five are what we'd expect - we've met Mano, Persuader and Validus are exactly the same as before, and the Empress is pre-Eye - all pretty cool starting points.

Like Ibby said - a really solid issue here, minus the Lori scene.

Bonus art easter egg - Apparently the SP/UP folks running security below the council chambers enjoy watching Star Trek Generations while they work. smile

Last edited by Gaseous Lad; 07/17/22 04:12 PM.

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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Starfinger Pt 2
Gaseous Lad #1016828 07/18/22 04:39 AM
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you got it signed by Jeff Moy! Lucky you, and happy for you!

yeah,this issue holds up really well. Vi's confidence and Zoe being sent to search the Eye at the same time... lol at your comment re Zoe not getting any sense

Jan as Starfinger was a great way to show how versatile and dangerous his powers can be! and it all made sense too in the end, as to how he could do all the Liquefying and Burning and all that

threat of Fatal Five and mysterious shadowy woman was well done. and of course, Winema's "reveal" was sensible - after all, she has hated the Legion from the beginning, and Tinya's death made her really hate them

and then Chu spotting the Sun-Eater just turned things on its head! whew!

also funny re the team Cos brought to the UP - his deputy Gim, and spymaster (lol) Lyle. not even Imra, who did the telepathic scans. but of course, Gim and Lyle would have pushed for going, while Imra would have been more OK to step back

also lol at Gates' one liners!

and yeah, the look at Brainy's history was nice and revealing. he was already coldly arrogant from the beginning of his life, but the abandonment by his mom Brainiac 4 does humanize him a little. and him threatening to trap Nara Minsork in his brain shows just how advanced his mind is. also love that he does not really mind being imprisoned, as it lets him think free of distraction!

I do appreciate the plotting done by the team, by the way. Brainy being imprisoned leads into a spotlight issue, for example. the timing of Vi's new confidence is also spot-on as to the ongoing story. all the individual threads re Jan going to Trom and getting kidnapped, Winema's reactions to Tinya's death, etc. are also woven in and starting to converge...

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Starfinger Pt 2
Invisible Brainiac #1016891 07/21/22 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
you got it signed by Jeff Moy! Lucky you, and happy for you!

Jeff is really cool and accommodating generally, but I met him at Baltimore last year to pick up some stuff. So obviously he has art for sale and accepts commissions, etc, but he also has some other books for sale - graphic novels and individual issues where he is the artist, and sketchbooks that he has created that collect a lot of his commissions. So I bought a bunch of other issues, including Legionnaires 34, and he was gracious enough to sign a bunch of them. In one of them he even did a really quick Vi sketch - it was really cool. I'll try to post it if I can find it; I'm pretty sure its buries in my boxes somewhere. smile

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lol at your comment re Zoe not getting any sense

It works right? laugh

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Jan as Starfinger was a great way to show how versatile and dangerous his powers can be! and it all made sense too in the end, as to how he could do all the Liquefying and Burning and all that

Yep, I remember in my original read all those years ago that I was blown away by this reveal.

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also funny re the team Cos brought to the UP - his deputy Gim, and spymaster (lol) Lyle. not even Imra, who did the telepathic scans. but of course, Gim and Lyle would have pushed for going, while Imra would have been more OK to step back

Of course Imra was also busy bailing out Lori. smile

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and yeah, the look at Brainy's history was nice and revealing. he was already coldly arrogant from the beginning of his life, but the abandonment by his mom Brainiac 4 does humanize him a little. and him threatening to trap Nara Minsork in his brain shows just how advanced his mind is. also love that he does not really mind being imprisoned, as it lets him think free of distraction!

I do appreciate the plotting done by the team, by the way. Brainy being imprisoned leads into a spotlight issue, for example. the timing of Vi's new confidence is also spot-on as to the ongoing story. all the individual threads re Jan going to Trom and getting kidnapped, Winema's reactions to Tinya's death, etc. are also woven in and starting to converge...

Yep, KC Carlson worked really hard to keep a rich world in play here, so the writers introduced B4 at this point, but it wasn't returned to until after issue 100 - but the plan was to have that Dark Circle story w/Brainy's mom sooner, but as we know the story was rejected.

PS - I'm not sure if this is a clue or not - but Vi, who very specifically has violet/purple eyes, has green eyes on the cover. Coloring error or clue? smile

Last edited by Gaseous Lad; 07/21/22 06:43 AM.

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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Starfinger Pt 2
Gaseous Lad #1016913 07/22/22 02:21 AM
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Vi with green eyes COULD be a clue! nice catch!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Starfinger Pt 2
Gaseous Lad #1016929 07/22/22 11:20 AM
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LSH 77 is one of my favourite issues from this run. Nara Minsork is unique - she's dressed like a dame in a Marlowe novel (30th century style) and she's trouble - an immoral telepath. She just wants to make a living, it seems, not take over the universe. It's a refreshing take on a citizen of Titan.

The Warden's a bit of a creep as well.

We do get insight into how strange a Coluan mind is, especially Brainy's. You actually feel sorry for the kid's rotten childhood, although it doesn't seem to bother him much. Nara's investigative process feels incredibly invasive until Brainy turns tables on Nara and threatens to imprison her in his mind.

Originally Posted by IB
Valor acts a bit cocky here. After felling the nomads, he goes "Oh, come on. That was one punch." When he escapes the arriving Science Police, he tells the one conscious nomad, "Listen, I have a problem. I;m famous, see? And right now, I can't afford to be seen except by the stupid, the out-of-it...people like you." Whoa. Can't imagine Preboot Mon-El saying these things. But then again, we know this version of Lar Gand had a somewhat different reaction to his Phantom Zone imprisonment... and of course, he has his messiah status in this reality to deal with. I can understand him getting a bit of an attitude.

Letting off steam, I guess - but it doesn't feel like classic, noble Mon-El.

Originally Posted by IB
As Future mentioned above, Kinetix's subplot moves along without developing her character any. In her one-page scene, she is still as eager as before to get power; and she never even thinks of the potential dangers of the Emerald Eye. She's my favorite Legionnaire, but I have to admit her subplot hasn't been doing her many favors yet.

Lori's subplot is almost as bad. Her running off is realistic, but what purpose does it serve? She got into trouble, then Imra got her out of trouble with her Imra-ness. Plenty of build up, no pay off.

Kinetix doesn't come off too well here. She's jumping into danger, we know it; she might be blind to it. All the more opportunity to rise to the occasion and show her hero side later perhaps. Agree the Lori sub-plot didn't add anything, except to keep her in the story.

Originally Posted by GL
The other big flag that something is off is the revelation and confrontation about Winema Wazzo. They deliver seemingly hard evidence, and nothing is done but focusing on a small background detail that sends the story off into an entirely different direction, which is confirmed when we meet Tharok at the end. But the Five are what we'd expect - we've met Mano, Persuader and Validus are exactly the same as before, and the Empress is pre-Eye - all pretty cool starting points.

That scene seemed unbelievable to me. The Legion just bursts into the meeting, accuses Winema in front of everybody, then it's all dropped with the SunEater revelation. Will we later find out that Chu knew about Jan/Starfinger and that's why she so easily dismissed the accusation? Good point that this Empress is pre-Eye; her new look is unappealing and I sort of focused on that, but why should she wear green if she hasn't come under the Eye's influence?

And I totally missed Vi's green eyes - and took her new outfit as just a sign that she was gaining confidence as a Legionnaire.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Starfinger Pt 2
Fat Cramer #1016930 07/22/22 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
LSH 77 is one of my favourite issues from this run. Nara Minsork is unique - she's dressed like a dame in a Marlowe novel (30th century style) and she's trouble - an immoral telepath. She just wants to make a living, it seems, not take over the universe. It's a refreshing take on a citizen of Titan.

Totally agree - We saw a decent amount of Titanians both pre- and post-DnA, and they all seemed to create a decent tapestry of a diverse culture instead of the general "funny hat" syndrome that most alien worlds are shown as being.

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Originally Posted by GL
The other big flag that something is off is the revelation and confrontation about Winema Wazzo. They deliver seemingly hard evidence, and nothing is done but focusing on a small background detail that sends the story off into an entirely different direction, which is confirmed when we meet Tharok at the end. But the Five are what we'd expect - we've met Mano, Persuader and Validus are exactly the same as before, and the Empress is pre-Eye - all pretty cool starting points.

That scene seemed unbelievable to me. The Legion just bursts into the meeting, accuses Winema in front of everybody, then it's all dropped with the SunEater revelation. Will we later find out that Chu knew about Jan/Starfinger and that's why she so easily dismissed the accusation?


This was exactly my thought. You'd think someone in the crowd would have been saying, "Yeah, I get the Sun Eater threat and all that, but can we keep our eye on the ball here? This lady just brainwashed a kid to kill a bunch of folks!" Its seriously the weakest part of this issue.

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And I totally missed Vi's green eyes - and took her new outfit as just a sign that she was gaining confidence as a Legionnaire.

As did I on my initial read of this issue. I remember being really happy that my favorite character was taking agency in transforming herself.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Starfinger Pt 2
Gaseous Lad #1016938 07/22/22 03:26 PM
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You both make excellent points re Winema being accused. if I remember right, next issue or two, we see Winema still hanging out with the other UP dignitaries. Nobody even thinks of placing her in preventive custody or at least taking her in for questioning!

Re-Reading the Legion: Prelude to The Fatal Five
Gaseous Lad #1016968 07/24/22 11:59 AM
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Covering LSH 78 & Legionnaires 35


Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legion of Super-Heroes 78
The Gathering Doom

Issue information

Summary:

The UP Council meets outdoors. Most delegates are nervous, but President Chu faces up to the situation by describing exactly how scary the Sun-Eater is. She outlines her plans to have the Legion stop the Sun-Eater, prompting an outburst from Winema, who is promptly removed. Chu recovers smoothly, and promises that no UP star-system will be destroyed. We see panicking non-UP worlds rush to join the UP to gain protection.

The Legionnaires split into pairs to collect the Fatal Five.

Cosmic Boy and Violet head to McCauley's base to retrieve Mano. Evolvo devolves into ape form to stall the Legionnaires, but Violet promptly scares him into submission with her shrinking. McCauley, forced to comply, brings the Legionnaires to Mano. The UP makes a generous offer - help against the Sun-Eater, and get a full pardon. Mano accepts, much to McCauley's horror, as nothing will stop Mano from pursuing his vengeance. Cos shows little sympathy; McCauley was keeping Mano in a horrible cell without legal authority - with rats imported from the sewers of Paris! Even if Mano had rejected the offer, the Legionnaires would have had him transferred to a proper jail.

Saturn Girl and Spark head to Pasnic to find Validus running loose. Imra sees Validus' mind is just a "big angry head full of nothing"! Spark resists Validus' lightning but can't affect him in return. Imra manages to telepathically implant a big, scary image of herself into Validus' mind - making him faint!

Chameleon and Leviathan head to an asteroid for Venegar, built specifically to house the Empress. They find her lounging on the bodies of every single sentient there, much to their horror.

Gates and Invisible Kid find Tharok's hideout. Lyle warns Gates not to teleport ahead, despite Gates' difficulty walking; Gates does still teleport, but wisely waits by the entrance to Tharok's lair. Lyle gives a recap of Tharok's history - stupid criminal who got solvent spilled on half his body; reconstructed into a cyborg by a surgeon, whom he promptly killed; cybernetic enhancements make him extremely intelligent. To their surprise, Tharok surrenders without a fight. Interestingly, Tharok is holding what looks to be the Atomic Axe.

And on Takron-Galtos, Star Boy and Triad go on ahead to take custody of the Persuader, sans Axe. We find a new Warden, replacing the one who sicced Nara Minsork on Brainiac 5 in LSH v4 77. She mentions that the old Warden is now behind bars. Triad sees Brainy and tries to talk to him, but he ignores her - too busy thinking. Talk about lost in thought.

As the Legionnaires and Fatal Five assemble, Tharok hands the Atomic Axe to Persuader, gives a shiny dagger to Empress, frees Validus, and rallies the Fatal Five to kill the Legion. Uh-oh.

Thoughts:

The cover is an excellent homage to the Adventure Comics issue with the original Fatal Five story!

The Gathering Doom. Nice title, and a subtle foreshadowing also that maybe gathering the Fatal Five wasn't the best idea.

The writers managed to pack a lot of characterization - both for Legionnaires and for the Fatal Five - into a series of lovely little vignettes. This issue was structured extremely well, and the action was not interrupted at all by any subplots. References to matters outside of the main plot (e.g. Mano's vendetta versus McCauley) are folded into the main story.

On the Legionnaires -

Cosmic Boy continues to be calm and even-tempered, a big departure from his recent tantrums. He definitely shows his compassion here - being appalled at Mano's poor cell conditions, and also reminding the Legionnaires (especially Leviathan!) to stress communication with the Fatal Five over confrontation.

Violet also continues to be confident and clever, scaring ape-man Evolvo without throwing a punch.

Spark doesn't get to do much, but I like her snarky yet professional demeanor. She is good for a few cracks while still getting the job done.

Saturn Girl pulls the big save against Validus; to be fair, she is probably the Legion's only effective weapon against him now.

Leviathan's sense of justice comes through at how disgusted he is of the Empress.

Chameleon doesn't do much, though his Interlac has improved a bit. At least he can be understood without the need for a translator.

Invisible Kid references his spy past again; he shows much more caution this time around. Learning from past mistakes?

Gates, despite his bravado and sarcasm, showed his fear of Tharok. Again, comedy gold for the little bug!

Triad spends most of her lines yelling at Star Boy, and grumbling at Cos for giving her the "easy job" of getting the Persuader, who is already in custody at Takron-Galtos. Neither she nor Star Boy are happy about spending the issue filling up forms to get the Persuader freed.

Star Boy, for his part, seems a bit lost this issue - being yelled at by Triad for touching the controls on their spaceship, and not recognizing Brainiac 5. Ah well, he's only been here a few issues, give him a break...

The Fatal Five's facade ends as expected, and possibly sooner than expected - we didn't even see any real Sun-Eater, and they didn't even move the action off Takron-Galtos!

This issue was great for story momentum; the writers wisely chose not to include anything distracting. instead, we go full throttle into what promises to be a big battle!

Artwise, I commend the panel layouts. They are easy to read and follow. I also think Lee Moder's art has improved at this point; the Legionnaires look more fleshy and less anemic. The action scenes are also very easy to follow.



Ibby, for L* 35 I'm editing out the detailed commentary here for length.



Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legionnaires 35
While You Were Out...


Issue Information

Summary:

While the Legionnaires are away, Metropolis (and by extension Earth) wait for the Sun-Eater. Rond Vidar heads to Legion HQ to examine Lori Morning, under the watchful eye of Shvaughn Erin in her role as SP Officer. Lori brashly uses the Legion HQ holo-projector to tell Metropolis that she, as Future Girl, will protect them while the Legion is away - leading to concern and fear. A furious Marla Latham has to do damage control.

An intruder uses this opportunity to attack HQ with a device that scrambles communications and an army of shapeshifters.

Chuck Taine, Tenzil Kem and Marla Latham successfully fend off a trio of intruders. Rond, Shvaughn, Lori and some Athramites face another group that has a caustics bomb; they are trying to use it on the HQ power core, which would destroy Metropolis! Lori kicks the bomb away from the intruders; it eats away a large portion of the floor, sending most of them plunging to their doom. Lori saves herself and one intruder, who asks Lori to save herself. Lori refuses, and hangs on long enough for Shvaughn and Rond to save her. The Legion support staff decide to keep the intruder, and Lori names it Proty.



Thoughts:

The roll call is, as always, a nice touch. Unlike some other roll calls, the characters' expressions here fit the scene - Shvaughn and Marla register disapproval, Rond is embarrased out of his life, Tenzil is amused and Chuck is gawking at Lori's hideous fashion disaster.

I think the writers did a great job of including exposition. There was just enough to give readers background, and it was worked in organically through conversations that are character-building and that seem natural. They explained things in a minimum of words and had the characters figure things out intelligently enough. Points are lost for the repetitive dialogue on Takron-Galtos and with XS though, that's still 2.5 pages total!

Lori. Though it's not explicitly stated, the Legion is probably keeping her existence a secret from the government. Else, Chu would likely have carted her off to prevent Rond from discovering useful things from studying her.

Nice nods to the Preboot continuity (Chuck being a sharpshooter, the Space Canine patrol) that would still be appreciated by new readers as well.

It was a fun issue, and each of the seven cast members get something to do. Proty, well, it's a nice nod as well, though its inclusion does raise a lot of questions. And at least the Legion / Fatal Five battle got moved on a bit.

It was also good seeing some scenes of what is happening on Earth, what with the Sun-Eater panic. That way, this issue does not feel so much like filler, but more like "what is everyone else doing?" Interestingly, none of the support staff register even a bit of worry about the Sun-Eater itself, though they are probably just confident in the Legion.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Prelude to The Fatal Five
Gaseous Lad #1016970 07/24/22 01:46 PM
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The Gathering Doom begins. So the whole Sun Eater ruse - everyone is basically going along with the President because of a glimpse of it in a memory without any kind of verification. AND Wazzo is still walking around freely after the same memory implicated her in a crime! But it seems to me that Chu is being very canny here and leveraging this incident to increase the size of the UP and gain power.

The splitting up of the Legion to pick up the Fatal Five makes interesting pairings. Everyone's in a different ship - only one, Imra and Ayla to pick up Validus, is a legit Legion cruiser. The best pairing is Lyle and Gates, just cause Gates gets the best lines.

Cos and Vi go to pick up Mano from McCauley and Evolvo, who tries to stall as a primitive ape. Vi easily takes care of him without a fight. I have to say that this is one of the Moder issues where I really did like the art - even though Mano is faceless, you can almost feel him smiling when he accepts Cos' proposal to help, releasing himself from McCauley's imprisonment. Imra scares Validus into passing out while he's on a rampage. One wonders what the deal is with him in this continuity.

The sequence where Gim and Reep go to recruit the Empress is chilling - she's a complete psycho. The only recruiting story that has any real depth to it is Lyle and Gates getting Tharok, where we see his backstory of the petty thief hurt in an accident then kept alive by the people he was stealing from for some reason. They find him - with the Persuader's axe - and he easily surrenders.

Everyone meets at Takron-Galtos, where Thom and Luornu are getting Persuader from the new warden; apparently the shenanigans with Brainy and Minsork last issue got the last one fired. They walk by Brainy but he doesn't respond. There's a lot to like in the last couple pages - an interesting pairing of the Empress and Gates, Tharok laughing at both the Sun Eater and Cosmic Boy's trust, just before he gives weapons to Persuader and the Empress. He's presented as an interesting villain.

It's a fairly by-the-numbers story that sets up the big showdown between the fight, and its done pretty well, other than the oddness of the premise at the beginning.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Prelude to The Fatal Five
Gaseous Lad #1016978 07/24/22 03:00 PM
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some of those pairings more served to highlight the Legionnaires, than the Fatal Five. Cos/Vi getting Mano for example, was showing Vi being assertive. (McCauley cringing in fear re Mano getting free was hilarious). or Triad giving Thom a hard time, treating him like a rookie.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Prelude to The Fatal Five
Gaseous Lad #1016981 07/24/22 03:20 PM
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Legionnaires 35 -

This is a neat issue that a team with two books coming out every other week can afford as an occiasional luxury; the parallel story happening while something else is going on with in the other book. The team has already done this before (Triad's assault happened during the second Tangleweb mission) and will do this again later several times - indeed after LSH 100, the team splits between Earth and the outpost, and the stories run parallel to each other at that point.

Rond Vidar's entrance is great - references to "Mr. Vidar is my father" is a great touch, but Universo is definitely NOT Rond's father, unless Rond is secretly Titanian. I found Lori to actually be entertaining in this issue, the interplay between her and the Athramites was fun, as well as Rond being used as a bit of comic relief. Of course, Lori causes more problems than she solves by spilling the beans that the Legionnaires are offworld.

The groupings are fun in this issue - Chuck & Tenzil in one group, Lori, Shvaugh & Tenzil in another, and Marla by himself. Chuck is great in his scene with the invaders, using the snooker ball to cut the lights. Star Trek easter egg alert on page 7!

In mid-issue we do get a check on the Legion on Takron-Galtos facing off against the Fatal Five - note that the dialogue is exactly that of the end of LSH 78 - a great touch. Love to see Vi going into the fray!

The shapeshifting, protoplasm invaders look to be trying to sabotage Legion HQ with some fun action with Shvaughn and team, meanwhile, Marla has joined Tenzil and Chuck to fight the other invaders who have duplicated the Legion staff - a pretty good move. Some of the saboteurs run away, but others were killed, except for one that Lori rescues. We eventually get back to these folks, but not for quite some time.

And then XS returns on the final page! She's been missed! smile

Definitely a fun, light issue, but there's a lot going on here on re-inspection.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Prelude to The Fatal Five
Gaseous Lad #1017014 07/25/22 11:50 AM
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LSH 78: The pairings were a good way to tell the story, kept the action moving and allowed for character interaction. The original Sun Eater story had one Legionnaire go after one of the Five, but I like that they used two for each mission; it gave panel time to more Legionnaires, in which they did something instead of just appearing.

Sending Imra and Ayla after Validus was a clever echo of the past story; lots of "I wonder if..." but this is clearly a different universe. This Empress is indeed a complete psycho, none of the sexiness, allure or physical beauty of Sarya. Mano is probably the most decent sentient of the group - he just wanted to avenge his people! This FF is a whole lot less cooperative than the original.

Originally Posted by IB
Cosmic Boy continues to be calm and even-tempered, a big departure from his recent tantrums. He definitely shows his compassion here - being appalled at Mano's poor cell conditions, and also reminding the Legionnaires (especially Leviathan!) to stress communication with the Fatal Five over confrontation.

This was good to see. Cos acting like a jerk was disappointing, even if understandable. Maybe the writers felt they were pushing him too far - there was a letter from a big Rokk fan complaining about his poor behaviour.


Legionnaires 35: We've had a few of these issues over the years in which the people left behind defend the HQ. I thought this was one of the better ones; it wasn't ex-Legionnaires like classic Chuck and Lu, but people who with no fighting experience and no powers (well, Tenzil can eat - but that didn't work out here and Shvaughn has police training), depending on their wits.

Originally Posted by IB
It was also good seeing some scenes of what is happening on Earth, what with the Sun-Eater panic. That way, this issue does not feel so much like filler, but more like "what is everyone else doing?" Interestingly, none of the support staff register even a bit of worry about the Sun-Eater itself, though they are probably just confident in the Legion.

That was well-done; it made this issue fit into the main story while being something of a filler.

Originally Posted by GL
Some of the saboteurs run away, but others were killed, except for one that Lori rescues. We eventually get back to these folks, but not for quite some time.

The protean reveal surprised me! (I was thinking Chemoids or something like that.) It's a good mystery as to who sent them or was controlling them.

Lori started out as "10-year old girl annoying" to me, but she did have some good scenes and I was wondering what would make a kid so oblivious to danger. Loves adventure or living in a fantasy world, or maybe she just saw enough with her father that she can handle this.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Prelude to The Fatal Five
Gaseous Lad #1017018 07/25/22 01:51 PM
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Agree, it was such a treat seeing non-combatants like Chuck, Tenzil and Marla holding their own at HQ. (even Lori!)

and I agree that this Empress is just a total psycho, with none of the elegance of dear old Sarya!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Prelude to The Fatal Five
Fat Cramer #1017022 07/25/22 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
This was good to see. Cos acting like a jerk was disappointing, even if understandable. Maybe the writers felt they were pushing him too far - there was a letter from a big Rokk fan complaining about his poor behaviour.

I'll have to check out the physical copy in my boxes - I really wish the digital versions would keep the lettercols!

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Lori started out as "10-year old girl annoying" to me, but she did have some good scenes and I was wondering what would make a kid so oblivious to danger. Loves adventure or living in a fantasy world, or maybe she just saw enough with her father that she can handle this.

I always chalked it up to the latter - all the running around time with her father and Chronos made her a little more adventurous and, to some extent anyway, her youth makes her a bit more naive to the dangers she could be encountering.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Prelude to The Fatal Five
Invisible Brainiac #1017023 07/25/22 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
and I agree that this Empress is just a total psycho, with none of the elegance of dear old Sarya!

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
This Empress is indeed a complete psycho, none of the sexiness, allure or physical beauty of Sarya. Mano is probably the most decent sentient of the group - he just wanted to avenge his people! This FF is a whole lot less cooperative than the original.

I very much agree here - Granted she knows of the eye, but she doesn't get her paws on it until much farther down the line. It would have been nice to develop her a little more. That said, this FF was cool because they were a bit of a mess. Mano never really seems on board with everything, another element that I think could have been developed further. DnA tries in their FF story, but falls a bit short, IMO.


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Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - The Fatal Five
Gaseous Lad #1017225 07/31/22 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legion of Super-Heroes 79
The Fatal Five!


Issue Information

Summary:

On Takron-Galtos, the Fatal Five ambush the Legionnaires (Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Triad, Chameleon, Invisible Kid, Leviathan, Spark, Shrinking Violet, Gates, Star Boy). The Warden jettisons the deck they are on away from the rest of the prison planet. Violet enlists Brainiac 5's help. Gates, Star Boy, Leviathan, Validus and Mano are separated. Gates and Star Boy manage to defeat Validus and Mano, and get rid of the malfunctioning engine. Upstairs, Tharok, Empress and Persuader defeat the rest of the Legion. Gates is the only one left standing. The issue ends with a big explosion on the ceiling.

Thoughts:

I like the cover blurb better than the actual title. "Fatal fight!" is a nice play on words. The actual title is the generic "The Fatal Five!" As if We've already forgotten who they are.

I like the Warden a lot. She seems to be a reasonable authority figure, and is tough and decisive. She is also snarky; I loved her internal monologue when she realized Tharok had gotten into the security systems. "Then you can write your resignation letter to those liars on the Corrections Board. Yes, Ms. Wafil, Takron-Galtos is the most secure prison ever! No Ms. Wafil, an insect couldn't breach it." You go, girl.

Artwise, we have now seen the same scene (the initial squaring off between the LSH and the Five) done by both Lee Moder this issue and Jeff Moy in Legionnaires 35. I prefer Moy's art, not just because I like his style better (and his Legionnaires are cuter!), but because of the way he positions the characters. Moy had the Legion clustered together in the middle, surrounded by the Five. Moder has the Legionnaires just sort of randomly spread out; most of the Five are together but for some reason Mano is across the floor.

I was not a fan of how the plot flowed this issue - it felt a bit hard to follow. On the plus side, it did make for an interesting 22-page (or so) skirmish. What I really liked was the dialogue. Lots of "punny" moments and snark from the Fatal Five. And the dovetailing of Warden Wafil's "insect could not breach it" comment, to a shrunken Vi walking into Brainy's cell, was lovely.

As to the battle itself - it left me with a bad taste. It seemed more like the Legionnaires were being played for fools, than a highlight of how dangerous the Five actually were. I don't know. I liked the Gates/Star Boy vs. Validus thing, but...

The Legionnaires -

Okay, in general, this seemed like amateur hour. They've done so much better in battle before (like against the White Triangle Daxamites, and they were arguably more out-powered then!) They did use a lot of good tactics, but I felt they were too overconfident and too careless.

The only ones who really shone in battle were Gates and his quick thinking against Validus, and a semi-conscious Star Boy who was clearly not smart enough to figure things out on his own. Everyone else?

1) Leviathan is so not a leader. I was expecting him to take charge and be the brains, but all he did was insult Gates. As Gates said, what a nasshead. Gim has apparently been such a jerk to Gates, that Gates leaves Lyle and Lu alone against three Fatal Five members just so he can see Leviathan admitting he needs help. That says a lot about Gim and a lot about Gates. Though, Gates redeems himself versus Validus; what does Gim do? Continue to complain while Gates does all the thinking. Bah.

2) Thom was lucky his powers emerged, else he would have been a stain on the floor courtesy of Mano. Also (and this will become a defining characteristic for him in the Reboot), his "jokes" suck. "You know what your problem is, Validus? You're stupid... you're mean... and you don't weigh enough!" A galaxy away, Shikari has just barfed into her sleeping pod.

3) A triplicated Triad and Violet together couldn't take out the Persuader? And they left themselves open to the Empress, who could have slaughtered them any time. That was their downfall.

4) We didn't even see Lyle go down. I guess Persuader hitting Brainy on the head... I don't know, knocked Brainy backwards into Lyle?

5) Cos and Spark getting taken out by Tharok was not so bad - it was a sneak attack, and they almost had him. They did freeze for a couple of panels though... I was also expecting more able field leadership from Cos. Especially after Validus, Mano, Thom and Gim sank down one level - that left 3 of the Fatal Five against 4 conscious Legionnaires (him, Ayla, Lyle, Lu). Did both Cos and Ayla really need to gang up on Tharok together to save Lyle? If he had sent Ayla after Empress, for example, maybe they would have won.

6) Brainy. For such a smart guy, he proves yet again that he is not sensible or practical at all. "Oh, please, the Axe can't pierce my forcefield!" No, but it can still knock you unconscious,you ass. And I am reminded again why I didn't like Brainy until the late Reboot, and especially under DNA.

7) Despite my praise for Gates, he does lose points for standing there while the Empress pretends to be "politically conscious". And... she actually asked him that in LSH 78, so why was he so surprised now? He doesn't have short-term memory loss, does he?

Empress and Persuader were rather impressive this issue. Empress knows a lot about physiology, taking Cham down just like that. And she's definitely a skilled fighter, grabbing Vi out of the air. Persuader is clearly not just strong, but skilled; he was able to aim his Axe properly to KO Brainy and cut Ayla's lightning. But I do think the Legionnaires were freaky careless too. The fight was just too unbalanced.

Ah well. Overall it was still decent, and had its moments. The Legionnaires were way, way lucky, though. Extremely.

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legionnaires 36
To the Rescue!


Issue Information

Summary:

Live Wire leads the Legion Rescue Squad (Valor, Andromeda, Ultra Boy, Jan Arrah and XS) to save the Legionnaires! Kinetix also teleports in during the battle. The Fatal Five escape to Drak IV and uncover an arms cache. Putting all their knowledge together, the Legionnaires realize that Tharok is working with someone in UP HQ on Earth; that the arms cache on Drak IV contains Braalian arms, and that the Five intend to use this to restart the Braal-Titan war. Titan has already heard news of a Braalian army build-up on the Braalian frontier, which Drak IV is part of, and is preparing for war despite the efforts of Imra's old teacher Micah Aven. The Legion splits into three - one team to stop the Five, one team to stop the Titanian Army from attacking Braal; and one team to stop Wazzo. The issue ends with Wazzo escaping, seemingly killing Invisible Kid and Chameleon (oh no!), and shooting President Chu and Brainiac 5.


Thoughts:

Artwise, I appreciate more and more Jeff Moy's talent for conveying so much information in a small amount of space. We pick up so many tidbits just in a few panels of the Legionnaires milling around and talking.

As HWW said in his review of L* 35, the writers are giving us intelligent stories. They are crafting a mystery, and the Legionnaires unravel it in a natural, intelligent way that does not spoonfeed us. Best of all, the revelations (oh, so that's why there are Braalian arms on Drak IV... they must be using this to reignite the war!) are delivered with convincing dialogue. And although the flashbacks of Live Wire forming the Legion Rescue Squad were delivered in battle, it felt organic - a telepathic peek by Saturn Girl while she is recovering behind a shield.

The action in this issue wasn't much, but it moved the plot along really well. And everyone got a couple of lines in at least - enough to highlight their personalities.

I certainly liked this much better than the long battle in LSH 79.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - The Fatal Five
Gaseous Lad #1017226 07/31/22 10:38 AM
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LSH 79:

So my first thought is "Is the warden in on it?" after she locks down everything.

IN the confrontation scene, the dialogue at the beginning is similar to, but not quite, the same as in Legionnaires 35 in the transaction scene where we jump back to Takron Galtos. Unfortunately, Tharok seems wise to Vi's tricks.

I'm glad they got the setup aspect of this out of the way early. Of course, that tells us as the reader pretty explicitly that Chu is a bad actor here, doubled by the fact that the Fatal Five seem to have a counter to most of the Legionnaires' powers, as they get taken down pretty easily.

When I originally read these, I didn't know about Star Boy's silver age history, but now re-reading everything, this was a neat homage to Thom having Superboy's powers - except he has to call them Daxamite powers, as that would be more common. smile

Violet to the rescue by getting Brainy. GREAT moment with Brainy knowing the combo already and he just wanted to get time to think in quiet!

Jettisoning the area where the fight was taking place would be a great way for Chu to take care of two problems at once from her perspective, as I really doubt she could really control the Fatal Five.

Not great word balloon sectioning on page 15. It looks like Lyle is responding to Gim before Gim radios in.

Such a great cliffhanger with the entire Legion about to be sliced and diced! Who can save them??? smile

I think I liked this a little better than you, Ibby. There are a couple moments (like Lyle getting taken out) that are a bit of a head scratch, but I liked this a lot.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - The Fatal Five
Gaseous Lad #1017227 07/31/22 11:38 AM
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Legionnaires 36:

Excellent start to this issue! We pickup from L35 with XS, now pursued by mysterious meta strangers, and a full recap of where we are to include an update of the Braal/Titan tension and the actual reason Winema Wazzo is still a free woman: Diplomatic Immunity (cue the Lethal Weapon 2 scene...) but she is at least under house arrest.

Then a moment with Gates to have him narrate the immediate situation with the Fatal Five and segue right into the LSH 79 ending with the hull explosion. Another interesting note - the dialogue here is close, but not exact, to the end of LSH79. Some of the speakers have been changed, and other items added or deleted.

But the Rescue Squad arrives! XS, Live Wire, Ultra Boy, Jan Arrah, Valor and Andromeda! The latter two were the mysterious figures chasing XS. Man, they sure got to Takron Galtos quickly from Earth! smile

As the rescuers get to work taking on the Five, reviving the Legionnaires and rescuing the habitat, Jo hears the same words uttered by Apparition before her death. Is it a memory?

Nice use of Valor and Andromeda - they are the only two that can stop the habitat from going out of control and killing everyone, but it also takes them out of the immediate fight.

GREAT quick exposition to explain what's really going on. Page 10-11 conveys SO MUCH information. Makes me shake my head at some current comics. *cough cough* We get the whole backstory of the secret mission that Rokk set up to recruit the rescue squad.

Tharok is contacted by his mysterious benefactor right when the Empress is about to kill Violet when Kinetix literally appears out of nowhere looking for the Eye of Ekron. Zoe instantly (and impressively) dispatches the Empress. The Fatal Five disappearing just as the Legion was catching their second wind seemed to resonate with the Silver Age history.

Nice quick reunion scene where Kinetix discovers that she has a tail! I guess its safe to assume that the Mysa scene in issue 34 happens just before this. We also clearly determine that the Sun Eater threat is a complete ruse and that the Five have stolen the Legion's ship to go to the world we last saw Valor with the weapons cache. This is a cool twist, as it shows plans within plans - getting rid of the Legion via the Sun Eater was just a way to stoke the Braal/Titan conflict. Rokk then splitting up the team into three - one of which being the espionage squad - is brilliant. He may not be the most popular character, but when needed he's always well written as a leader.

I remember when initially reading this that I wondered what it was that Cham said to Brainy that made Brainy react the way he did. We'll revisit this next week. smile

On Earth, Wazzo appears to have fried the Espionage squad! Brainy turns himself in to the president in order to build trust in getting Wazzo, but then Wazzo attacks them both! Cliffhanger!

Such a great issue! Lots of plot advancement fun action and mystery! And I agree with Ibby, I'll read any of Jeff's work any day of the week!

Last edited by Gaseous Lad; 07/31/22 11:38 AM.

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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - The Fatal Five
Gaseous Lad #1017228 07/31/22 01:10 PM
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This story was definitely a highlight of the Reboot, and L* 36 in particular had a "everything is coming together" feel - with the Rescue Squad storming in and Kinetix appearing! the gang is ALL here! (poor Dirk Morgna could not be written in though, I guess even the writers could not have that make sense :p)

LSH 79 was not bad, but it did feel chaotic. that said, I still did enjoy it enough, GL. and all my griping about the Legion being taken down so easily, is erased by their turning the tide in L* 36 and what comes after wink

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - The Fatal Five
Gaseous Lad #1017234 07/31/22 01:41 PM
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Yeah, 79 was the Bad Cop to L36's good cop in that our heroes were basically beaten, so it was all setup.

I don't think I realized until this read that Tharok was given all the ways to best defeat the Legionnaires via Chu, so that's how the FF were able to beat the Legion pretty easily, however I think its just a supposition on my part.

But 36 also has a nice touch in the roll call - the "official" Legion is on the edges, while the rescue squad is at the bottom, with Kinetix tacked on at the top by Gim. smile


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - The Fatal Five
Gaseous Lad #1017235 07/31/22 03:01 PM
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re Chu giving Tharok what he needed to beat the Legion, I think that is a reasonable assumption. Could also explain why the Five were not prepared for Valor, Andromeda, XS, Element Lad, Ultra Boy... as far as Chu knew, Andy would be imprisoned by her guilt, Jan still under her mental control or at least too injured to fight, she topped Jo from joining, and she didn't know Lar had been freed from the Phantom Zone

and indeed, that L* 36 roll call was expertly done wink nice touches everywhere, and I believe Brainy was the other bookend to Zoe eh? tongue

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - The Fatal Five
Invisible Brainiac #1017269 08/01/22 08:04 AM
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That's right! Brainy was technically "out" since he was in jail.


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Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Victory! (LSH v4 #80 & L* #37)
Gaseous Lad #1017482 08/07/22 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legion of Super-Heroes 80
Trust

Issue information

Summary:

As Live Wire, Spark, Star Boy and Ultra Boy distract the Titan fleet, Saturn Girl and Gates board the lead ship. Saturn Girl's teacher Dr. Micah Aven helps telepathically shut down the commander to stop the fleet from attacking Braal. Ultra Boy experiences a surge of pain, but brushes it off.

Leviathan, XS, Kinetix, Andromeda, Jan Arrah and Valor stop the Fatal Five from launching Braalian weapons at Titan. Mano turns on Tharok, as Mano is not willing to mass-murder innocents. Andromeda tries to save an injured Tharok's life.

RJ Brande joins Cosmic Boy in the Legion Monitor Room. They watch as Winema Wazzo tries threatening Brainiac 5 and President Chu into using Brainy's time machine to save Apparition. For some reason, Winema is broadcasting her actions to the entire galaxy. To pressure Brainy, Winema cites her accomplishments: sending the Fatal Five to ambush the Legion; brainwashing Jan Arrah; setting up the Sun-Eater hoax; and inciting the first Braal-Titan War so the United Planets could gain prestige by ending it. Brainy tackles Winema and gets shot by accident. Chu destroys the cameras and questions Winema as to how she knew of all these plans, considering they were Chu's. Winema reveals herself to be Chameleon; Cosmic Boy arrives and reveals that there was a second hidden camera broadcasting Chu's actions to the galaxy. Invisible Kid, Brainiac 5, Shrinking Violet and Triad are all alive as well. Cham reveals himself to be fluent in Interlac, and was pretending to have trouble speaking it to make his impersonations more effective.

Cosmic Boy explains to the Legionnaires that Aven had shared his suspicions of Chu before. Cos believed him, and only pretended to follow Chu's orders so she would trust him; Live Wire, Invisible Kid and the Espionage Squad (Chameleon, Triad, VIolet and the deceased Apparition) were helping him behind the scenes. He apologizes for fooling everyone, as he could not risk Chu catching on.

Chu is imprisoned and the real Winema Wazzo cleared of all charges. RJ Brande is elected United Planets President. He pardons Brainiac 5 and Andromeda, clears the Legion of charges related to drugging Winema (so Chameleon could impersonate her) and "kidnapping" Chu to expose her, and abolishes the draft. The Legionnaires smile happily as they realize things will get better for them.

Thoughts:

The story unfolded excellently. The writers kept the suspense up, and made sure that readers would be kept guessing despite leaving clues. Little things like Cosmic Boy pretending to believe Triad and company were dead; and Cham-as-Winema mentioning casually that Brainy's presence was unexpected, really helped.

The art is also great. Moder worked in many subtle, little things that add to the story. Like Lyle trying not to laugh as Cham reveals his fluency in Interlac, or Andromeda standing in front of Brainy as Brainy pauses while reasoning out Cos' secrecy (remember, Cos didn't tell Brainy that Andy was alive). The Legionnaires' groupings in the final page also show their relationships: best friends Vi and Zoe; Triad gushing over Lord Valor; Brainy behind Andromeda; Jo with a hand on Jan's shoulder (both are newbies); Gates and Thom, who joined together.

Likes:

Andromeda taking the Empress out with one tap. Hah! I was getting tired of the Empress endlessly talking about how much she loves killing. Thanks, Andy, for shutting her up (and really, any Legionnaire with long-ranged powers could have taken her out, so I'm glad she went out in a really funny way).

At first, having fake "Winema" broadcast her dramatic kidnapping seems odd. But a) Chu calls her out on acting like a cheap-vid villain (hah!), and b) the story is paced so well that I didn't really question it on my first read-through. And in hindsight, it helped lull Chu into a false sense of security; she never expected there would be a SECOND set of cameras hidden because the first were in plain sight!

Aven's line when he shuts down the minds of the smug Titan soldiers: "Stupid, overbearing, overconfident, blind, unreasonable. The perfect soldier." You tell it like it is, Aven.

Cham using his shapeshifting to fake Winema's phasing, and Lyle's partial invisibility to pretend to be a skeleton. Violet shrinking down to give the impression she had been vaporized as Gullo; and Triad helping fake Lyle's and Cham's deaths. All smart uses of their powers and abilities.

Not everything is swept under the rug; Leviathan grouses about Cos not taking him, his deputy leader, into confidence. And even though Brainy rationally agrees to it, he pointedly pauses and looks at Andromeda while saying so.

Many other lines are great:

1) Kinetix - "lose your footing, Validus?" and when the Persuader says that Gim "makes an irresistible target", she quips "so do you, hatchet man!"

2) Jan gleefully telling Leviathan to catch the Atomic Axe... and turns out, he had turned it into cheese spread

3) The rioters and Science Police reactions to the "confessions" of Winema and Chu. "You've got to be sprocking kidding me!"

4) Brande can't understand how Cham impersonated Winema, as Cham doesn't speak Interlac. Cham's line: "Mr. Brande... did you honestly believe my linguistic instruction would require such a protracted apprenticeship? In actuality, I maintained the appearance of lexical difficulty merely to abet this charade. Comprende, senor?" And Brande just goes... "By... damn." Priceless.

Quibbles:

1) I read a comment in another thread, where a fan complained that Cosmic Boy crying was over the top. Only RJ Brande saw him at that time, and there was no reason for him to go so far to keep the pretense up. What was Brande going to do, anyway? I have to agree; even if Cos was hesitant to confide in Brande as the sting was already in progress, him crying seemed over the top. Didn't he trust Brande? Or did he just want to go for the best actor award?

2) Star Boy. I know he's not the smartest kid on the block, but does Spark really have to explain to him again that they are flying around the Titan ships to jam their sensors? What, wasn't he listening when the Legionnaires were planning? Or is he really that dim? Live Wire, Spark and Ultra Boy didn't get much else to do, but I guess the writers couldn't fit that much more action in.

3) Jan transmuting the Persuader's Axe into cheese spread. That's pretty sophisticated! I don't know that I like Jan to be this powerful (for most of the Reboot, this won't be an issue though; a lot of his future appearances will have him making more simple element-to-element transmutations.

4) Leviathan. Not only did he not contribute much to the battle, but he was barely a leader! Insulting Jan as a "sprocking pacifist" for not wanting to turn the Five into cheese spread? Uh, Legion Code, anyone? And he didn't take leadership either; Kinetix, XS, Valor, Jan and Andromeda all acted autonomously. Yeah, we need some prickly characters on the team to make things interesting, but Gim is supposed to be a tough leader type. At least show him leading!

5) Although the panel payouts were generally good, there was one page - where XS wakes Valor and Andy up - that got the speech bubbles reversed. It was a little bit confusing.

Overall, though, this was a GREAT issue which neatly wrapped up many storylines from the past year or so and explained a lot of odd behavior (like Cos suddenly being a jerk). Many plotlines were resolved as a result of the Chu sting - Andromeda's "exile", Brainy's imprisonment, the rift between Garth and Cos, the status of the Espionage Squad. This was also a very satisfying story, as the Legionnaires triumph not just against the Fatal Five, but against a controlling government. This is a majestic victory, and one they won through both brains AND brawn. This remains one of my favorite issues of all time, and the overall story is also one of my faves.


Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legionnaires 37
Decisions


Issue Information

Summary:

The Legionnaires and RJ Brande deal with the aftermath of Chu's exposure. The galaxy at large is abuzz with recent changes.

Valor is encouraged by RJ Brande to continue involving himself with the Legion. Valor decides to take up the Legion's offer of special Detached status, giving him the flexibility to be a Legionnaire and still have plenty of time off to go exploring. He takes the name "M'Onel", ancient Martian for "He Who Wanders", to give himself a cover identity.

Cosmic Boy, Live Wire, Saturn Girl, Leviathan and Invisible Kid draft a Legion Constitution. Key developments include "encouraging a diversity of powers", though without a hard ban against it (to protect Live Wire's and Spark's concurrent memberships, among others).

Andromeda thanks Brainiac 5 for saving her before, and tells him of her decision to leave the Legion. Brainy coolly dismisses her by saying she was an asset, but they will get by - to Andromeda's surprise and annoyance.

Kinetix, Leviathan and Violet question the Empress about the Emerald Eye. Zoe is upset at the dead end and ponders continuing her search. Violet retorts that Zoe would leave them again so soon, and that Mysa turned her into a "tattooed albino with a tail!" Gim convinces Zoe to stay by promising all the resources of the Legion to help with her search. Zoe gratefully flirts with Gim, to Vi's annoyance.

Gates asks Vyrga's matriarch for permission to return home, citing the end of the draft. He is refused, as his membership brings much honor to Vyrga. Star Boy has the opposite problem - Xanthu wants him home to increase its local prestige.

Jan Arrah formally takes the code name Element Lad, and Ultra Boy gets a new costume (dropping his Preboot threads for the SW6 style costume). Jan transmutes Jo's costume to change the color; Jo suddenly collapses, brushing it off as residual pain from the battle with the Fatal Five. To Triad's surprise, Jo orders a Bgztlian Blue - Apparition's favorite ice cream flavor.

Invisible Kid and Chameleon try examining Proty as Lori looks on. Cham only knows that Proty is not Durlan, but is unable to truly communicate with it. Lyle alludes to Cham's duties back on Durla - referencing earlier scenes that implied Cham would have to take up the mantle of Spiritual Leader from his deceased father. However, Cham stresses his commitment to remain a Legionnaire.

Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl have been making plans together to ease Braal-Titan tensions. As they prepare to depart for Titan, a jealous Live Wire forces himself onto the mission team.

Detailed Summary and Thoughts:

I'm mixing these parts together because a lot of little things happened; it does not make sense to have a shorter summary and a longer separate one.

Overall, the story does a good job of updating us on each individual Legionnaire, and a few of the supporting cast members. We get just enough information on each to develop their characters and set up future plot points. The script is well-written, packing a lot of information into the space we have; Moy's art also adds a lot. He has a talent with using body language to complement the story.

The opening two pages serve as both a roll call, and a perspective on what the galaxy thinks of recent events. It is well-done, as the reporters ask some questions that readers would no doubt have been asking, while other questions show repercussions of the Legionnaires' actions on the galaxy at large.

Picking up on HWW's thoughts on LSH 80, it seems that Chu's hidden camera confession was admitted as evidence, and enough to impeach her.

RJ Brande's reluctance at being UP President is emphasized yet again - and if his treatment of the Legionnaires hadn't already established it, this is more evidence that he will be a good President out of altruism.

Now for the roll call:

The three founders - can they hold a growing membership together? This cleverly refers to the fact that the Legion's size has pretty much doubled - before the Fatal Five/Chu storyline, there were only 10 active Legionnaires (Cos, Imra, Lu, Cham, Lyle, Gim, Ayla, Vi, Thom, Gates); the story returned 8 more to us (Garth, XS, Brainy, Zoe, Andromeda, Jo, Jan and Valor) to us.

XS' and Kinetix's long absences were remarked upon, as were rumors of XS being lost in time, and Kinetix's pointy ears, odd face tattoo, and her tail.

Andromeda's return is also mentioned, as was the fact that the UP said she was dead.

Chameleon, Invisible Kid, Triad and Violet's covert ops are highlighted, and the reporters ask - can they be trusted?

Poor Leviathan's status as Deputy Leader is questioned, including his authority and his access to information. Perhaps someone was eavesdropping on the Legion's debrief last issue, where Gim yelled at Cos for not bringing him into the secret plans.

Brainiac 5's pardon for conducting illegal time travel research is noted. Will he continue them in the future?

Spark, Star Boy and Gates are called the replacement Legionnaires, and their continued membership is questioned. Now, I never thought of Spark as a replacement, given her membership is the officially sanctioned one; but perhaps I am being too unkind to Garth and his founder status. It seems that the galaxy (or the reporters, at least) did not put much stock in Ayla's official status. Gates and Thom make sense in hindsight, and I am sure many readers agreed with Gim when he yelled at Cos for letting Gates and Thom be added to the team when Garth, Jo, and Jan were turned away by Chu.

Jo and Jan's lack of official Legionnaire status is mentioned, but I certainly had no doubts they would be full members.

And finally, the mystery Legionnaire. There are rumors that he resembles Valor, which shows that Lar was not 100% careful about not being seen. His scenes in earlier issues (L*34) do show he took some pains to keep hidden - when he beat up the scavengers on Drak IV, he kept out of sight of the Science Police - but now I do remember him being rather visible outside the UP Assembly in LSH 80.

We cut to RJ Brande welcoming Valor to the former's mansion on Mars. I know Cos kept Valor's return a strict secret from everyone who was NOT a Legionnaire - Valor took great pains to keep hidden from Shvaughn Erin and the Athramites in - but it makes sense that RJ would...wflat&Number=936946#Post936946]L* 36), the Empress showed she knew something about the Emerald Eye. Empress claims she knows it only from legends; that two hundred years ago, the people of Venegar fought a civil war over it, that it brings immeasurable power... but at a price. Empress taunts Zoe by saying that if she finds the Eye, she can bring it to her. An enraged Zoe's line is telling - "Murderess! You think I can't handle the power!" Other Legionnaires might have reacted with disgust - "I will never give it to a mass murderer like you!", but Zoe has to make it about power. Gim and Vi calm Zoe down, and they exit. Gim and Vi question Zoe over whether it is such a good idea to find the Eye; Zoe mentions her promise to Mysa, and that she only has her powers back because Mysa helped her. Vi counters that Mysa turned Zoe into a "tattooed albino with a tail", which is an apt description (missing only the pointy ears). Gim tells Zoe she can have all the Legion's resources to search for the Eye, causing Zoe to flirt with him. Violet glowers at them - this is the second time we see Vi get annoyed at Gim's feelings for Zoe (see LSH 76, when she snaps at Gim that Zoe only smiled at him because she was laughing at his headgear!)

Gates petitions the Matriarch of Vyrga to allow him to return home, now that the draft is abolished. Matriarch will have none of it, telling Gates that his continued membership s giving Vyrga the recognition they deserve. The art is wonderful here - Gates' room is decorated to look like Vyrga, complete with plants and giant mushrooms and bits of rock. His facial expressions are also easy to read. Gates mis-teleports into the Hall of Heroes, saying he never understood the custom of erecting "effigies to dead meat". Ooh. But it makes sense that some cultures would not have this. Star Boy shows a bit of knowledge, saying he is surprised Gates is there as he didn't know Vyrgans paid respects to the departed. Thom finds Gates' situation ironic, in that Thom himself is being asked to return home to Xanthu against his will. Thom cites two main reasons for staying: in the Legion,he is just one among many super-powered individuals, and that he believes Brainy can help him control his newfound powers. As an aside, the dialogue here is tops - Thom reacts to Gates' plight as "funny", before apologizing to an annoyed Gates that he meant "ironic" instead. I know I have had to explain my English to many of my non-native speaking friends!

Gates leaves Thom to go to the cafeteria. Jan hits on the Element Lad code name because RJ always calls him "Lad". Interesting that the writers departed from the trend of dropping the Girl/Boy/Lad/Lass kid names with Jan - he is the only Legionnaire to have gotten a new code name in the SW6 era (Alchemist) to revert to his original Preboot name in this reality! Gates asks for a bowl of slugs, prompting Ayla to gag. Love the lines here - Tenzil goes, "a bowl of slugs, coming up!" and Ayla thinks, "they're not the only thing coming up..."

Jo walks in with a new outfit, which is his SW6 look. Triad's personalities make themselves distinct, with Purple flirting and Orange shushing him. Violet comments that the color is too dark, prompting Jan to transmute some pigments. Jo suddenly collapses, and a horrified Jan says nothing should have happened. Jo brushes it off, saying it's residual pain from the Fatal Five battle. I like Jan's line - "By the change! What have I done?" A recovering Jo asks Tenzil for a Bgztlian Blue, prompting Triad to remark to her selves that it was Tinya's favorite flavor.

Cham and Lyle try to examine Proty. Cham can't communicate with it, but he transforms into a series of forms, and Proty follows. Lori's panicked reaction to Cham transforming into Tangleweb reminds us that, despite physically being an adult, she is only mentally 10 years old. Lyle also reminds Cham about his responsibilities on Durla, alluding to Cham's being next in line for spiritual leader (his father was murdered by the Composite Durlan). Cham, annoyed, says he is committed to stay with the Legion, as his membership will help the galaxy become more comfortable with Durlans.

Vi and Gim see Cos and Imra off. The latter two are heading to Titan to meet the UP Ambassadors from their homeworlds for a goodwill tour. It is telling that Vi is along - trying to get more time with Gim? Gim remarks that he wishes Cos would stay, as things are in a state of flux. But Cos says he has faith in Gim. Nice to see they have ironed things out a bit. Valor returns with a new costume, saying he wants to accept the offer of Special Detached Status. According to the new constitution, if leader and deputy agree, Legionnaires may take this status. They are active Legionnaires, but have more freedom to come and go as they please. The dialogue makes it clear that Cos and Gim both had a say in this. In response to Imra, Valor also says he thought of a new identity to prevent from being recognized as Valor - M'Onel, ancient Martian for "He who wanders". (Hi HWW!) A nice nod to his Preboot codename of Mon-El, which would not have made sense in this reality (or I think; his introductory issue never included him being called Mon-El). Garth walks in to interrupt M'Onel's welcome, saying he is joining Imra and Cos on their tour. Garth says he thinks three founders instead of two will be better for the goodwill tour, but it is clear he just wants to stay close to Imra. Cos sharply says it is fine with him, if it is OK with Gim... and Garth gives Gim the evil eye, rendering him speechless. Whoo! Garth scaring Gim, who would have thought?

The issue ends with a reporter talking about the Founders' trip, asking if it will ease passions... or inflame them?

A solid issue indeed, and one that whets the appetite for more!


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Victory! (LSH v4 #80 & L* #37)
Gaseous Lad #1017487 08/07/22 02:38 PM
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LSH 80

Man, I love books that have multiple, meaty storylines coming together in a way that makes sense. LSH 80 is an incredibly statisfying read, with the Chu/Wazzo situation in the first thread, the Braal/Titan situation, the Fatal Five and just to put a cherry on top, Cham actually understanding "English". And in the end the Legion gets to chart its own course.

Boy, Gim just does not come across well most of the time, does he? But Jan turning the Persuader's axe into cheese was kind of fun. And at the end - he's just a big dumb old lug isn't he?

I enjoyed the takedown of the Fatal Five, but Validus taking on Lar and Laurel was an interesting take, as they were stunned for a few panels. The fact that the real downfall comes mainly at the hands of Mano, at least this Mano, felt right, as did Andromeda's moment of self-realization.

And wow, was the takedown of Chu just great - it had a bit of a Scooby Doo quality to it that I liked. Although, I'm not quite sure how Luornu impersonated Vi last issue.

The art is definitely the weakest point here. And Rokk sure likes to turn on the waterworks here doesn't he? He's crying for half the issue. That just seemed really weird to me.

This is probably one of the best LSH issues of v4 all up for me. And its fitting to have a cover that is a visual homage to the 1976 calendar cover by Neal Adams and Dick Giordano.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Victory! (LSH v4 #80 & L* #37)
Gaseous Lad #1017492 08/07/22 03:36 PM
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Yeah, poor old Gim remains unlikable - even as the mission leader vs. Fatal Five he gets barely any good moments - the one he does is related to his powers (grabbing a handful of missiles) than related to his leadership!

Mano came through, and so did Andromeda. great moments for both.

this was amazing, though indeed not sure how Lu impersonated some other Legionnaires.

I love this story to bits though, some quibbles aside. everything came together so well...!

and Cham revealing he could speak Interlac remains one of my fave few panels ever!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Victory! (LSH v4 #80 & L* #37)
Invisible Brainiac #1017507 08/08/22 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Yeah, poor old Gim remains unlikable - even as the mission leader vs. Fatal Five he gets barely any good moments - the one he does is related to his powers (grabbing a handful of missiles) than related to his leadership!


And to make matters worse, he's shown at the end trying to do the math on his hands. laugh


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Victory! (LSH v4 #80 & L* #37)
Gaseous Lad #1017509 08/08/22 10:28 AM
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Legionnaires 37 -

Really creative roll call that also gets the story up to speed for the new viewer.

I was personally very intrigued by the Valor/Brande interaction; it's clear that Brande has secrets, and Valor has learned some. Whether they intersect is a mystery. For bonus, there's a lot of cool easter eggs in the trove of superhero artifacts that Brande owns.

Jenni, Ayla and Lu's scene is fun as I adore all three of these characters, and the concept of the girls going after the Flash rogues gallery was cool. But the last panel on page 8 is heartbreaking to me, as Jenni is indeed lost to this version of Ayla and Luornu.

I wasn't really expecting the whole Legion Constitution scene, but it makes sense now that they are out from under the UP's charter. I also had mixed emotions during the Brainiac 5 & Andromeda scene. I felt that she really should have stayed with the team (although we get plenty of time with her over the coming years), and I would have liked a Brainy/Laurel relationship, but the scene rang true.

The Empress interrogation is probably my favorite scene in the issue, as it sets up the next big arc and has great character moments. I love mercurial Zoe! Such a feisty redhead! smile And of course, the flirtiness with Zoe & Gim plus Vi's jealousy is done perfectly.

I also noticed in Moy's artwork here, he has at least two panels that are circles which do a great job of focusing your eye so to speak.

Gates shines in this issue - both in his scene with Star Boy and in the cafeteria scene where we move things along with Jan & Jo joining the team formally as well as the "something's wrong with Jo" plot moving a bit. We touch base with Lori an d with Cham and finally we are introduced to M'Onel.

Cute that Vi is hanging around where Gim is just so that he'll talk to her. smile

Overall, this is one of those stories that the Legion writers of this time were so good at - the "breather" stories after a big story arc that ties up some stuff and introduces others while all being a fun read in the process.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Victory! (LSH v4 #80 & L* #37)
Gaseous Lad #1017512 08/08/22 11:36 AM
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What struck me was how dense these issues are - meaty is a good word for them. I looked at the page count at one point because it felt like a double issue.

This was a complex, long-running arc, with seeds planted as far back as Aven coming to visit Imra in the hospital. #80 did a great job of bringing everyone back (except Tinya) and resolving multiple storylines.

Agree that Gim does not come off too well here; is that to prepare us for his eventual outcome?

Cosmic Boy crying - hadn't really thought about it, but he is pretty emotional. Maybe cracking under the stress.... although I don't think they follow that line at all in future issues.

The only off-putting point for me was the Empress, too one-note murderous.

It is disappointing that Andromeda doesn't stay with the team, but there are plenty of other personalities - and powerhouse characters.

Good to see the Espionage Squad made official and Cham's reveal of perfect Interlac. I did find it interesting that Invisible Kid was included in the drafting of the Constitution. It figures they would include Leviathan as the first, U.P.-appointed leader and the three founders, but I wonder if this was a peace offering from Cos, who has had a difficult relationship with Lyle.

(On a side note, the Canadian government is looking to ban imported hand guns, using the same legislation as for imported cheese - so Jan changing the Persuader's axe to cheese gave me an extra laugh.)


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Victory! (LSH v4 #80 & L* #37)
Fat Cramer #1017515 08/08/22 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
What struck me was how dense these issues are - meaty is a good word for them. I looked at the page count at one point because it felt like a double issue.

I did the exact same - I was wondering how they were going to wrap this all up in time!

Quote
Cosmic Boy crying - hadn't really thought about it, but he is pretty emotional. Maybe cracking under the stress.... although I don't think they follow that line at all in future issues.

They don't and the only person he's really performing for is RJ.


Quote
Good to see the Espionage Squad made official and Cham's reveal of perfect Interlac. I did find it interesting that Invisible Kid was included in the drafting of the Constitution. It figures they would include Leviathan as the first, U.P.-appointed leader and the three founders, but I wonder if this was a peace offering from Cos, who has had a difficult relationship with Lyle.

That's a great observation!

Quote
(On a side note, the Canadian government is looking to ban imported hand guns, using the same legislation as for imported cheese - so Jan changing the Persuader's axe to cheese gave me an extra laugh.)

LOL!


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Victory! (LSH v4 #80 & L* #37)
Gaseous Lad #1017517 08/08/22 01:24 PM
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Great point re how meaty these issues were! Imagine that happening today, we’d need twice as many issues!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Victory! (LSH v4 #80 & L* #37)
Invisible Brainiac #1017519 08/08/22 01:30 PM
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Kind of a general question, but it seems that the current state of things is a particularly Bendis issue - or is it?

I don't read a TON of other comics, but it seems like there is more action AND dialogue in just about everything else that's current that I read.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Victory! (LSH v4 #80 & L* #37)
Gaseous Lad #1017521 08/08/22 02:17 PM
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I can't compare, but I did read Dark Crisis 1-3 and I felt it was paced similarly to Bendis' stuff... though I would say more major events did happen in one Dark Crisis issue. I think. I need to mull over it a bit.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Victory! (LSH v4 #80 & L* #37)
Gaseous Lad #1017545 08/09/22 03:51 AM
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These issues are probably denser than anything contemporary I'm reading today - more concurrent plots, more words and less "filler" art. Look at how many Legionnaires in the Bendis run are just standing around or saying something inconsequential (doesn't add to the story or to their personality), not to mention the liberal use of splash pages. While there are scenes in these reboot issues with Legionnaires just taking up space, more often they're displaying some emotion (jealousy, longing looks, confusion) or doing something to add to the character (like Lyle sleeping during the Constitution discussion).


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Victory! (LSH v4 #80 & L* #37)
Gaseous Lad #1017546 08/09/22 05:33 AM
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here, here! each Legionnaire here feels distinct, and despite the large cast everyone got something to do. one could not switch the word balloons around, but each line of dialogue does show the distinct personality of each Legionnaire!

Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1017672 08/14/22 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legion of Super-Heroes 81
Sundown

Issue information

Summary:

We revisit Dirk Morgna, last seen in Legionnaires 29. He still radiates intense heat and light. Since his confinement, his father Derek Morgna has not called nor visited. Dirk uses his powers to escape from the hospital.
Brainiac 5 is incensed at being turned into the Legion’s go-to physician – examining Kinetix’s physical transformations, XS for after-effects of time travel, Element Lad for after-effects of brainwashing, Ultra Boy’s cramps, and Star Boy’s new powers. Ultra Boy brushes off Star Boy’s concern and runs off. Star Boy chases Jo and crashes through the new façade of Legion HQ, to Leviathan’s rage and Chuck Taine’s despondency. An outraged Leviathan drags Thom off to see if he can get him out of the Legion.

Saturn Girl, Live Wire and Cosmic Boy arrive on Titan. Garth’s thoughtless jokes cause Imra to argue with him, to Rokk’s delight – further deepening the love triangle between the three.

A floating package arrives for Spark. Everyone figures out it is Invisible Kid – proven when Kinetix telekinetically traps him, to Ayla’s delight. Chameleon is enraged, as Lyle was only supposed to help him impress Ayla.
RJ Brande reopens the Time Institute, despite Winema Wazzo’s protests. RJ sarcastically suggests that Winema join his staff to show him how to run the government… an offer she accepts, to his consternation.
Star Boy asks RJ for help to fight against Xanthu’s recall of him. RJ asks Leviathan to visit Xanthu and convince them to let Star Boy stay, much to Gim’s rage.

Leviathan leaves Kinetix in charge. She barges into Brainy’s lab to see if any of his equipment can be used to track the Emerald Eye. However, she is interrupted by a distress call – Dirk Morgna has returned home, but his powers are still out of control. Kinetix, Triad, XS, Violet, Ultra Boy and Element Lad try to stop him. Dirk blinds Jan, causing XS to spirit him off to Brainy. Derek tells Dirk he never called on him because of shame; he feels that he failed Dirk. Dirk says that the loneliness and isolation was killing him. Derek offers to let Dirk touch him, just to remember what it is like. Before Dirk can do so, XS arrives with Brainy’s solution – a transuit tinted with inertron. Brainy calls Kinetix, telling her that he is sick of being abused by his teammates, and that they have gotten lazy about thinking because of his presence. He ends the call – and the issue – by tendering his resignation.


Shortened commentary from Ibby, as it was a lot! smile

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Quote
Thoughts:

Let’s get it out of the way: there is a lot of stupid going on in this issue. Compare LSH 79 and 81 to Legionnaires 35-37; the quality of writing, plotting and script on the LSH books has been markedly worse than the Legionnaires issues. Could it be because of the writing/scripting credits? Legionnaires is handled by Tom Peyer and Roger Stern, while LSH is handled by Tom Peyer and Tom McCraw. All I know is I am becoming a big fan of Roger Stern…

Dirk’s plight is understandable. His powers are out of control; he is confused and isolated, and his father has not even spoken to him. For some reason, the sedatives being used on him prove ineffective, allowing him to escape. I really don’t understand the point of the scene where the Science Police try to drop a gas canister on him, and he destroys it. To establish that the Legion is needed to subdue him? I’d say that was a given – he burned through a hospital wall on his own. Oh well. We will get back to Dirk later.

Kinetix, despite being my favorite character, does not come across as sympathetic even to me. She teases Brainy the whole time he examines her. Brainy says she is healthy despite her physical changes, and lucky that her depowering and encounter with Mysa didn’t do anything worse. To add to her snarkiness, she also comes across as power-hungry, reckless, thoughtless and completely not self-aware. She does say she wanted her powers back so she could help the Legion more, which is consistent with her characterization in LSH Annual 6. Brainy sarcastically questions her sincerity with the lovely line, “I am certain the purity of your motives will inspire many rousing songs. Now, bye.” Zoe’s tone-deaf behavior worsens when she returns to Brainy’s lab, disturbing him in the middle of an experiment and messing with his equipment. She could have asked nicely! And when she tells him to guess who Gim made acting leader, Brainy goes… “Stalin? Roxxas? YOU?” Brainy -2, Zoe – 0. Zoe never seems to realize, through the whole issue, that Brainy is close to snapping. I thought she had more insight than that!


Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legionnaires 38
Trouble on Titan


Issue Information

Summary:

Saturn Girl, Live Wire and Cosmic Boy are facing a warm welcome on Titan. Garth gives a rousing speech about the Legion's origins - with two of them coming from warring worlds - and how they learned to overcome their differences and work together, just like what the United Planets worlds are doing. With Imra and Rokk encouraging him, Garth lets loose a blast of lightning to even greater applause. Then his robot arm bursts apart to reveal his flesh-and-blood arm, and Imra kisses him out of passion and confesses her love... only for Garth to wake up, still out in space, as Cosmic Boy wrangles with customes who won't let them through until they are called for, despite the UP giving them diplomatic clearance. Garth barely notices; to his embarrassment, some Titanians are laughing at him; he suspects he may have been broadcasting his dream. Thankfully, Imra doesn't seem to notice...

... and we see she is "being alone with her thoughts". We see her flying through her own mind, as it seems to be, sorting out her memories and emotions. She thinks that she cares for Garth and appreciates how he has always been there for her; but she also cares about Rokk, and thinks that all three have been through so much. Her old teacher Aven pops up, saying that it is difficult to choose a life partner. Imra protests that she is not ready to choose. The pair encounter Imra's memory of the Composite Man, being surrounded by some sort of darkness. Imra thinks the darkness is trying to submerge the memory. Aven says this darkness is part of Imra's subconscious, and has been for many years, even before her time as a Legionnaire. The darkness grabs Imra; Aven holds her arm, but tells her she must be the one to defeat it herself.

Imra wakes up with a scream. Aven appears in "real life", saying that Imra must learn to confront the darkness herself, lest it destroy her. He also has used his telepathy to make sure the brueaucrats don't delay them anymore (we see a Titanian official saying "no... further delays...").

The three Legionnaires end up at the Ardeens' house. Father Bertor and Mother Sydne are happy to see them, but younger sister Jancel is all over Garth. She's incredibly flirtatious - "So, why do they call you Live Wire? Do you live up to it?" Garth quickly changes the subject to asking about family portraits; Sydne explains that there are few because Titanians share memories telepathically, thus having no need for portraits. To Imra's embarrassment, she shares memories of her childhood - being such a gifted telepath, Imra was taken away at five years old to study at the Titan Institute. She was one of the few students adept enough to study under Aven, and graduated with the highest honors. We see a hint of sisterly rivarly, with Imra beating Jancel at video games, and Jancel reacting in annoyance to Sydne's gushing. Garth, on the other hand, almost sheds a tear at the thought of little Imra being taken away.

Cos takes time to phone home; Triad is busy getting things in order in Cos' old office as Legion leader. She informs Cos that Leviathan took a team to Xanthu to settle Star Boy's Legion membership, and complains that Gim is a horrible administrator. Triad is keeping on top of things, AND organizing the Legion leader election; Triad Purple (of course) points out they wouldn;'t have to do that if Cos hadn't decided to step down! Other updates: Kinetix has been tying up monitor channels searching for the Emerald Eye; the Legion has had to house Dirk Morgna; and Violet managed to convince Brainiac 5 not to resign (the cliffhanger from LSH 81!). Cos' team and Gim's team already submitted their voted for Legion leader. Dr. Gym'll walks in right this moment; interestingly, Triad Orange was the one who called him in, and Neutral and Purple have no knowledge of that. Purple is annoyed that Orange "forgot to tell them", but Neutral says "like you've never done that before". Hmm, must be interesting being a Carggite. Triad sympathizes with all the red tape Cos must have had to deal with during his tenure. Cos replies there is still a lot of that on their trip to Titan, but accepts it with his characteristic good grace.

The three founders end up at the magno-ball courts, with the Sabers (wearing a Titan insignia) fighting the Bolts (homeworld unknown). Representative Xamuel Ivar of Titan and Representative Arn Kwin of Braal introduce the three; Garth gets a good level of applause, Imra gets the loudest, and Cos gets polite cheering at most. Imra smoothly introduces Cos as a former champion, and he takes to the stadium, showing his clear superiority over any of the players! Ivar and Kwin telepathically share their hopes and fears over this goodwill tour, and reveal they are most definitely more than just colleagues; Kwin holds Ivar's hand as he consoles him. Poor Ivar thinks that Titan still has so many hardliners, in key positions such as Education. Kwin encourages him by saying that building relationships is a long, slow process, and that their worlds have to overcome Chu's manipulations and a past war. The crowd begins to go wild, cheering Cos on as he displays trickier and trickier moves, much to the surprise and delight of Ivar and Kwin.

Garth and Imra join Cos as they thank the crowd for cheering. Suddenly, a bomb xplodes in the Representatives' box! The three rescue Ivar and Kwin, but Garth loses his robot arm.

At the hospital, Ivar has only suffered minor injuries, but Kwin remains comatose. Imra goes to help him. Jancel stops Garth from following, and rages at him for thinking Imra is "so special" and that she was instead a spoiled child. She shares her own memories of Imra crying when she was taken away; that part is a fact, but Jancel's interpretation is colored. She thinks their mom was crying because she was embarrassed at Imra's own crying! Garth tells Jancel off, saying she should stop being jealous of Imra and concentrate on building her own life. Jancel yells at him as he leaves.

As Imra begins her probe into Kwin's mind, Ivar stops her out of fear for Kwin's health. Cos confronts him, asking why he wants to stop Imra. Ivar reveals to Imra that he and Kwin are in a relationship, and that they had to be discreet because of the Titan-Braal conflicts. With Ivar's blessing, Imra enters Kwin's mind. The first memory she sees? Kwin and Ivar being introduced by Chu. Imra thinks that Chu was such a manipulator!

Imra soon encounters darkness again, but realizes this comes from Kwin's mind - it's not her own darkness. She finds Kwin in the midst of it all; he had locked his own consciousness away,using techniques Ivar had taught him. Kwin confesses that he planted the bomb himself, to make it appear someone had tried to kill him. He hoped this would make the more extreme Titanians examine their attitudes nad become more friendly towards Braal. Imra encourages him to stop hiding and to come out in the open, as things would be worse for everyone if Kwin's actions were discovered by someone else. Kwin agrees, and wakes up. He asks the Legionnaires to leave so he can talk to Ivar, and calls for the Science Police to give a statement. Imra takes courage and resolves to confront her own darkness one day.

Back on Earth, Triad announces the election results... and Shrinking Violet is the next leader! No mention of a deputy.

Thoughts:

This issue was very well-done, exploring intergalactic relations. I found it very realistic that Titan would not be so welcoming, but that Cos' performance on the stadium helped him win over the crowd. That's similar to what we see in the Olympics, no? It won't solve everything, it won't erase all memories, but it does make things easier.

Ah, immigration. As someone whose passport only allows him to travel to 60 countries without a visa - and someone who needs separate visas for many neighboring countries (such as the European Schengen Area, the UK AND Ireland, for US and Canada, for Japan and South Korea, for Australia and New Zealand)... I can relate to the bitter frustration at dealing with bureaucrats in immigration smile But it also gives a good illustration of geopolitics - despite Titan being in the UP, and the homeworld of a founding Legionnaire, they still see fit to thumb their noses at the UP when it suits them - such as when the citizen of one of their greatest enemies, Braal, is visiting.

Aven is crazy powerful, being able to overwhelm other Titanians without breaking a sweat, it seems.

Chu really is quite diabolical; I wouldn't be surpruised if she knew that Ivar and Kwin would be attracted to one another

The writers gave some nice bits into life on a telepathic world - the lack of portraits, for instance.

More insight into Triad's powers: Orange and Purple have both done things that the other triplets never learned about. But, do they learn about these things once they reintegrate? That would make sense, but I can't remember any evidence of that from earlier issues. It would be really weird if that never happened though.

Kwin using mental techniques ivar taught him is our first inkling that some measure of telepathy can be taught to non-native telepaths, though this is more of mental defense rather than true telepathy (thought casting and all that).

Imra's darkness is left hanging; I guess it sets up a nice subplot for later, and the writers may have felt it wouldbe too much for her to resolve it in one issue. In fact, little is resolved among the three founders' feelings, so we're back at status quo. Still, it was a nice exploration into the tangled web of Braal-Titan policies and the love triangle between our three founders.

And Violet as leader... whohoo! This should be interesting.


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Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1017673 08/14/22 06:55 PM
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LSH 81 -

Really cool cover, just off the bat. smile

I liked returning to Dirk's situation from almost a year prior. And instantly I'm feeling bad for him, being kept a virtual prisoner since the events of the earlier Dr. Regulus battle.

I very much enjoyed the oil/water mix of Brainy and Zoe's interaction. She's trying to play it light and make a joke (totally in character) and he can't be bothered with all this pedantic BS and just wants to be left alone, yet has a gaggle of other Legionnaire problems to deal with. His frustration is palpable, but entertaining to me.

Despite his penchant for making problems, I've liked Thom Kallor from day 1, as his heart is in the right place, but he always seems to make things go sideways. Gim calling Thom a goon is a very memorable frame, as is Chuck's reaction to the facade. The characters are made to suffer over relatively minor things, but I found it entertaining.

The one page I wasn't fond of was that of the founders heading to Titan. Both the situation of Imra seemingly looking for a fight and Rokk's desire for Imra soured me here.

I also very much enjoyed the cafeteria scene. The interplay between Kinetix, Gates and the secret admirer reveal were fun. The "If there's no one there, it's Norg" line was something that came from the UseNet fandom at the time - one of the users was a big Lyle fan and that phrase came up a lot, so the creators, who did a regular AOL live chat at the time, snuck it into the book.

Of course, this reveals the secret admirer to be Lyle, from everyone's perception except Cham, who is obviously the actual admirer. This made me wonder - Cham is by nature sneaky - why couldn't he have turned into some kind of a critter and done the deed? I get why Cham was pissed, but c'mon.

Gim leading the team to a Xanthu mission kind of comes out of nowhere, but mainly acts as a means to get Gim out of the way for Kinetix to take command. Again the oil/water dynamic here, with Zoe bargins in with comedic effect - Page 14 definitely had a sitcom dynamic feel to it.

That leads us to the big confrontation and meat to the story - the Legion vs Dirk, all motivated because Dirk wants to spend time with his father. While Jan gets temporarily blinded, Jenni bringing back a specially polarized transsuit makes everything better.

Overall, I really enjoyed this issue quite a bit - the Zoe/Brainy dynamic very much worked for me to keep me interested in the story. He does have a point that the entire team is over-reliant on him, but I do think that he overplayed his drama hand, even with Zoe's tone deafness. Of course, it was probably a huge mistake of Gim to leave Zoe in charge anyway!


The Art wasn't too bad. Even though the Moder characters all look a bit too skinny, I'll deal. smile


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Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1017676 08/14/22 09:43 PM
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Legionnaires 38

I'm happy to be back with Jeff Moy art, and a fun dream sequence of Garth's - the obvious question is whether Imra caught any of Garth's dream, and it seems that she did, and we get to see that in context of a nice "catch-up" vignette before we get re-introduced to Aven, one of my favorite supporting cast members.

Then we get to meet Imra's parents, as I remember it, they are named after fans who were active at the cons and on Usenet. I'm sure they are/were members here at some point. Sydne's memory sharing is a perfect "parent meeting moment" for any teen/young adult. Garth's reaction is classic, but of course Rokk is all business. When he gets back, we get more of a storyline catch-up, with the interesting tidbit that Vi convinced Brainy to stay with the Legion after threatening to quit in LSH 81!

And funnily enough - reading this now makes Titanian telepath society seem like the Jedi and their padawans, years before that was introduced.

Speaking of introductions, Dr. Gym'll arrives on Triad Orange's behalf, not telling anyone else. It's kind of a S***show, in other words.

On Titan, the founders go to a Magnoball game between the Braalian and Titanian Magnoball teams, where Rokk gets to show off. (An aside here, but doesn't it seem like all Braalians would naturally have an advantage here??) In an interesting twist on the Romeo/Juliet trope, the Titan and Braalian ambassadors are secret lovers based on the private dialogue we are privy to during the game. But Cos wows the crowd. (Also, apparently the people in the crowd on page 13 are Legion fans who Jeff Moy took pictures of and included in the frame. )

A bomb detonates, looking back, reminiscent of the bombing in The Dark Knight Rises, injuring both representatives. In the aftermath, I felt like the Jancel interaction was going to pay off somewhere in the future, but it never did, which is a shame as I thought it was a nice beat.

But the rest follows pretty predictably - Imra psychally discovers the truth about the two representatives and encourages the Braalian representative to live, but with the side benefit of a hint of foreshadowing for Imra. I think it's great that they focused on a same-sex relationship in this comic (especially the more "kid oriented" one of the two), but it highlighted THEN and even more so thirty years later that this team had absolutely no LGBTQ representation, which was kind of sad given Ayla/Vi in 5YL and the recent reveal of Ayla's secret admirer (which also, in the end, went nowhere). No one has spoken of this even all this time later, but I'm pretty convinces that editorial nixed anything around non-traditional relationships, especially after things we've heard around DC leadership the last couple decades.

And Vi wins the election! At this moment in the original read, I was happy, as my favorite character was getting put in the spotlight, but the warning flares went up, as it would not be typical for this to happen to that kind of person so fast. But we'll get to all that. smile

Along with LSH 81, another great setup issue for a bunch of things down the line, some sooner, some later. But well told regardless.


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Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1017688 08/15/22 02:02 AM
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re LSH 81,

I ponder sometimes, what was the original plan with Dirk? He was introduced early enough to have joined the big shebang vs. the Fatal Five, but I guess there wasn't space to work him in - and with Brainy imprisoned (as Brainy and Jan together had to temporarily solve Dirk's problems), there was no way Dirk could be on the rescue squad?

re Cham and Lyle, both of them dropped the ball, but good point GL - if Lyle messed up, so did Cham. (I found that whole scene hilarious though)

re Zoe and Brainy, that was wonderfully entertaining - and Zoe really would make a bad, but hilarious, leader tongue and this is coming from a big fan

cool trivia re the phrase "if there's no one there, it's Norg" and its origin!

Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1017689 08/15/22 02:04 AM
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oooh, Imra's parents being named after fans is so cool. I love how so many bits are taken from UseNet, shows the creators made an effort. love!



also not really sure how Magnoball works, and how teams from other worlds can hope to compete vs. Braalian players. (I get that they use magnetic gloves...) but oh well. I can suspend my disbelief tongue

I felt a bit for the gay ambassadors, though I did like how nobody had a problem with them being gay - the issue was they came from worlds with poor relations.

and yay, Vi as leader, whohoo!

Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1017690 08/15/22 03:29 AM
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Lydda was playing magnoball with Cos and Pol and Pol's beard*coff*girlfriend in the 70s or 80s I think? I assumed it would just be magnetic gear

Weird that this comes up now actually, I was just wondering last night if non-Carggites could do tri-jitsu as well!

Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1017691 08/15/22 03:41 AM
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re tri-jitsu, I understand much of the art comes from knowing when to integrate and to triplicate again... so would be quite a bit tougher for non-Carggites to do, I think.

Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1017692 08/15/22 04:43 AM
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hmmm that is a good point - although I think a team of Imskians/Durlans/Bgltzr people could replicate that part of it pretty well....I would assume it'd be an extra disadvantage but not a deal-breaker (which now makes me think how cool it would have been if Karate Kid studied with Duo Damsel at some stage! I don't recall OG Val really doing teamwork-dependant stuff, it would be a fun way to challenge him)

Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1017697 08/15/22 10:55 AM
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These issues were strong on showing the emotional relationships between the different characters. I also enjoyed the Zoe-Brainy dynamic, much less angst-ridden than Laurel-Brainy. Zoe's fun, Brainy's not... it works. And I wonder what Vi said to get him to stay? Vi elected as leader was a surprise.

Harsh on the physical side, though - Dirk's physical status unresolved, Jan blinded, Garth losing his arm.


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Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Invisible Brainiac #1017698 08/15/22 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
I ponder sometimes, what was the original plan with Dirk? He was introduced early enough to have joined the big shebang vs. the Fatal Five, but I guess there wasn't space to work him in - and with Brainy imprisoned (as Brainy and Jan together had to temporarily solve Dirk's problems), there was no way Dirk could be on the rescue squad?

I agree - it was curious. Maybe it was because they had turned him into a cad and then a disaster of a figurehead in the prior run that they wanted to put him on the back burner.

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
re Cham and Lyle, both of them dropped the ball, but good point GL - if Lyle messed up, so did Cham. (I found that whole scene hilarious though)

Me too! laugh

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
re Zoe and Brainy, that was wonderfully entertaining - and Zoe really would make a bad, but hilarious, leader tongue and this is coming from a big fan

I think a whole issue/episode in the BTAS animation style of this would be amazing!

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
cool trivia re the phrase "if there's no one there, it's Norg" and its origin!

oooh, Imra's parents being named after fans is so cool. I love how so many bits are taken from UseNet, shows the creators made an effort. love!

Many of the Legion creative staff were very accessible to the fans back in those days, and the interplay was very similar to how Barry Kitson interacted with folks here back in the day. It was really nice to see. And that would then overflow to the conventions. I was never able to participate in that, but it sounds like it was a fun time.


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Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
razsolo #1017699 08/15/22 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
also not really sure how Magnoball works, and how teams from other worlds can hope to compete vs. Braalian players. (I get that they use magnetic gloves...) but oh well. I can suspend my disbelief tongue
!

Originally Posted by razsolo
Lydda was playing magnoball with Cos and Pol and Pol's beard*coff*girlfriend in the 70s or 80s I think? I assumed it would just be magnetic gear

Yeah, I remember that non-Braalians have been shown using equipment to play, it just occurred to me that Braalians would have a natural advantage if they played Winathians, say. It was just one of those things that surfaced in my head for no particular reason. laugh


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Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Fat Cramer #1017700 08/15/22 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
These issues were strong on showing the emotional relationships between the different characters. I also enjoyed the Zoe-Brainy dynamic, much less angst-ridden than Laurel-Brainy. Zoe's fun, Brainy's not... it works. And I wonder what Vi said to get him to stay? Vi elected as leader was a surprise.

Harsh on the physical side, though - Dirk's physical status unresolved, Jan blinded, Garth losing his arm.

What Vi said to Brainy is a great question I would love to know the answer to! smile

I also noticed a small detail that I'm not sure is on purpose or not - Vi's hand is on the table console when her victory is announced.


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Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1017712 08/15/22 02:30 PM
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LSH 82 will reveal that Vi brings in Dr Gym’s to free Brainy up from medical stuff… for which Brainy is grateful and invents something for her… except L* 38 also shows that it was Triad Orange’s idea, so… yeah. Could have been both?

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 08/15/22 02:30 PM.
Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1017713 08/15/22 02:38 PM
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Hmmm - I guess we'll get to that next week, but I wonder if its editorial error or just a "Vi talks to Brainy, then Vi tasked Lu to recruit Gym'll specifically" thing


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Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1017715 08/15/22 03:45 PM
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Either works for me smile

Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1017736 08/16/22 01:59 PM
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LSH 81 was also one of the times I sided with Leviathan - I found his rage at Star Boy justified. Thom didn’t even notice it apologise for breaking through the facade… the only reason I didn’t rage at them myself was that he was concerned about Jo

Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Gaseous Lad #1019883 11/01/22 09:57 AM
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OK folks, I think I've almost got all my shit together after Covid and finishing up the Threeboot. Honestly, I'm not sure which was worse.

Anyway, let's pick this up again, shall we?

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legion of Super-Heroes 82
Lifestyles of the Dead

Issue information

Summary:

An explosion destroys Brainiac 5's lab, to which his only reaction is "interesting". He rudely tells Chuck Taine and Violet to "be quiet" as he walks away, protected by his forcefield. He further tells Chuck that he could rebuild the lab by Tuesday, if he hurries. Violet soothes Chuck by saying that it would be nice for his employment to be extended; she also says that Brainy's intellect has been very useful, which is why they put up with his lab-destroying ways. Cos and Imra come running in alarm, and Vi tells Cos she is handling it. Cos apologizes for taking charge, and the two founders congratulate Vi on her recent leadership win.

In another lab, Brainy makes a note to invent something for Violet as thanks for increasing his lab time. Minor error: he credits Violet for bringing Dr. Gym'll in, though in Legionnaires 38 Triad claims credit for calling him. But Triad did give Violet credit for convincing Brainy to stay with the team.

Dr. Gym'll is examining Live Wire to see if he can regrow Garth's arm.

Ultra Boy wakes up in his quarters in pain.

On Xanthu, Leviathan is mercilessly teasing Star Boy. "Next stop: Hickworld!" An annoyed Thom tells Gim he comes from a city of 17 million; Gim retorts with "I've never heard of it!" Thom tells Gim to talk louder and be proud of his ignorance. Gates also calls Gim out for "perpetuating hateful stereotypes".

Invisible Kid finally tells Spark that Chameleon is her real secret admirer, to Spark's consternation.

The Legionnaires are met by Xanthu's local superteam, the Uncanny Amazers - much to Thom's embarrassment. He even tries to pretend he doesn't know them, at first.

We meet: Lonna Leing, Insect Queen (nice play on Lana Lang there). Monstress is feeling the inferiority complex; she tells I. Queen "I guarantee you, they ain't heard of none of us!". She introduces herself as "The Monstress, that is my only name". Then she whispers, "Grife, that sounded stupid...". Boy, she sure is a far cry from the sweet Monstress we would come to know later. Rounding out the group are Atom'x and Kid Quantum II, with the latter being extremely hostile. Monstress tells Thom to forgive Kid Q's attitude, as she's been like that ever since her brother James died. Thom wonders if that's why Gim hates him so much. Thom surprises the Amazers by saying he doesn't plan to leave the Legion and return to Xanthu.

Jo's pains end when he calls Tinya's name. He jumps out of bed, thinking that he felt a rush of something undefinable... some "Tinya-ness". He goes into her room to investigate, only to scream as a hand phases through his chest and a voice tells him to get out!

Back on Xanthu, the Legionnaires mingle with the Amazers and other locals. We see many Xanthusians look down their noses at the Legion, though in a way that also suggests an inferiority complex. "We're as good as they are!" The Xanthusian President holds no illusions; he candidly tells Leviathan that, being on the edge of the galaxy, Xanthu has great need of its own defense force. He even says, "and, well, you saw the super-heroes we got. We could really use Star Boy." Gim is only too happy to let Thom go back to Xanthu, prompting Kid Quantum II to call him out for not standing up for Star Boy. "I see your leader's really sticking up for you, Star Boy. Just like he was there when my brother needed him." A shocked Gim stammers out an apology - "I'm very sorry for your loss, but I swear to you we did everything we could..."

Prefect Lamar (is a Prefect a Prime Minister?) whispers to the President about his plan: to have the Amazers face the Legion in a cage-match for the right to keep Star Boy. The President says he hates the plan, but reconsiders; he thinks some of the Amazers, suich as Kid Q, probably hate the Legion too much to work with Star Boy, so the plan does make sense. Let them get their aggressions out in the open, eh? Thom quickly accepts before a stunned Gim can say no.

The phased hand through Jo's chest is revealed to be Winema Wazzo, cleaning out Tinya's quarters. Jo tries to empathize with her pain over losing Tinya; she tells him not to touch her. "If you ever soil me with your touch like you soiled my baby, I'll have you killed!" Jo grits his teeth in anger, then suddenly collapses. And things begin flying around Tinya's room! Jo gets knocked out.

Cage match timne on Xanthu. Prefect Lamar tries to goad M'Onel into joining; he doesn't rise to the bait, but picks up the cage with one hand and says he needs to move it out of the draftg so he won't catch cold. Lamar eats his words, heh.

Kid Q has second thoughts about something she agreed to help Lamar do. Lamar tells her to stop thinking and just follow orders.

Match time: Star Boy, Spark, Leviathan, Chameleon and Gates (I guess Lyle was too busy being Invisible) versus Konk! (Floating Head Girl - thanks for the nickname, Gates!), Insect Queen, Monstress, Atom'x and the bald kid whom everyone insults and whose powers remain unknown. As the match starts, the Legionnaires find themselves inexplicably slowed down; Monstress scores an easy victory on Leviathan, Insect Queen wraps up Chameleon in webbing, and Konk headbutts Gates. Oops. Lamar cheers, telling Kid Q to keep up her quantum field. "If you win this for us, you will undo all the damage done by your br... errrrr." An angry Jazmin tells him off for not appreciating James' sacrifice in the line of duty, and tells him to fix his own match! With the quantum field off, Gim and Cham bounce off the floor and knock out Atom'x and the bald kid. And I assume Star Boy and Spark mop up the rest of their opponents - or Jazmin owns up to the cheating - because the next thing we know, M'Onel is congratulating Star Boy for keeping his Legion membership.

Vi, Cos and Imra rush to help Winema deal with the disturbance. Winema uses Jo's flight ring to bring him to the infirmary, thinking to herself that she "can't hate a sick child" despite despising Jo for so long. She interrupts Dr. Gym'll telling Garth that he can only regrow his other armif he gives up his lightning powers. Gym'll finds an unknown variety of ectoplasm in Jo's body, which turns out to be...

Apparition!

Tinya reappears, and the flying objects stop. Tinya says she somehow hid in Jo's body when they were atacked by the Daxamite (Legionnaires Annual 2), and has been trying to get out ever since. Except, she can only be seen and heard by Jo and Winema... and nobody at all can touch her. Jo and Winema are just happy to have her back, though.

Thoughts:

Rather a gorgeous and dramatic cover, of an intangible hand phasing through Ultra Boy's chest!

Well, we get quite two subplots wrapped up here - Jo's mysterious pains, Thom's Legion membership. That's quite a lot of developments. I don't know if I'm particularly satisfied with how they did it. I did like the exploration of Xanthu's inferiority complex and views towards Earth, and it was good seeing another side of Winema besides the harsh tiger mom.

Gim is such a jerk here, but I can't 100% blame him. Back in college, I used to act that way towards a classmate whom, I felt, was pig-headed and arrogant and incompetent. I can see where Gim is coming from; it's not the best behavior, but it's so very human AND understandable. Two quibbles: one is Gim is teasing Star Boy by belittling Xanthu (and not Gim himself); and as Gates observes, this is very much against the Legion's mission. Two, is his poor handling of expressing condolences to Kid Quantum II, especially when he himself was so broken up over Kid Quantum I's death way back. I felt this was a missed opportunity to give Gim some depth and show another side to him. Actually, a third quibble, and possibly the greatest - Gim directly disobeys RJ Brande's orders, and tries to foist Star Boy back on Xanthu. For someone who prides himself so much on his discipline and his background...! Gim must really think Thom is unsuitable!

I love the Xanthusian President. Candid, honest, and with a keen knowledge of human nature! Certainly one of the better politicans we have met.

The Amazers:

Monstress sounds more like The Thing here, certainly a far cry from her "sweetie" speech patterns later on. I suspect that she was initially intended as a joke character and pastiche of The Hulk/The Thing, and when the writers decided to make her a Legionnaire they went in a different direction, making her "sweet" to make her more unique.

Atom'x. I read that he was supposed to be Atmos, but the art went wrong. Explains why Atmos would appear later in the issue without any lines. Remembering back to Legionnaires 0, Atmos was mentioned (and had a cameo), along with Star Boy and Kid Quantum I.

And, here's my corroboration on Atom'x's origin.

Originally Posted by Eryk Davis Ester
Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
I read a theory (can't find it anymore) that Atom'x was actually a misdrawn or miscolored Atmos.


Yeah, he was supposed to be Atmos, but because of some sort of artistic miscommunication, he ended up being drawn as looking nothing like Atmos. So, he became a separate character, who was named after Tom McCraw's screenname, a fact that Tom was completely unaware of when choosing the character's color scheme.


Kid Quantum II. Why not? A direct legacy character! Stasis fields are a useful power anyway. I liked her standing up for her brother James, but I like even better that the writers let her have second thoughts even before Lamar insulted James. Shows her good character.

Insect Queen is a nice update on Lana Lang.

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legionnaires 39
Wishful Thinking


Issue Information

Summary:

Kinetix meditates in her room, trying to find a trace of the Emerald Eye. "Why must power be so elusive?" She thinks to herself that she searched for powers so she could continue to help the Legion. Lori peeks in and disturbs Zoe's concentration. Zoe snaps at her, then apologizes. Lori came to ask for advice, as Violet recommended Zoe as a "worldly person". She wants a guy (Rond!) to notice her; Kinetix tells her to slow down and remember that, while physically she is an adult, mentally she is only ten. Lori walks out, annoyed.

In space, a quartet of Science Police officers are flying Dr. Regulus to Takron-Galtos. Regulus burns out of his prison, and we hear the pained screams of two of the Officers.

Violet greets Leviathan's team on their arrival from Xanthu. Gim congratulates Vi on winning the leadership election, and complains about his mission - Thom gets to stay; he kept trying to fly the cruiser (despite everyone NOT wanting "Crash Kallor" to do so!), Spark is hostile to both Chameleon and Invisible Kid, and apparently Gates never stopped speaking the whole time (to which Gates retorts, "Oh, like you're such a great conversationalist!"). In the commissary, Gim is concerned about M'Onel's Detached Agent status letting him take off pretty much whenever he wants. He thinks it will be bad for morale. Vi counters that it IS a special status for him, and the rest of the team is on board and in good shape.

Ultra Boy tells Spark "Everything's wonderful, we're very happy," a reference to Apparition's return in LSH 82 (though only Jo and Winema can see her).

XS asks Spark about her secret admirer. When Spark reveals it was Cham instead of Lyle, XS blurts it out to the whole commissary - much to Ayla's, Cham's and Lyle's consternation.

Triad argues amongst herself, with Orange freaking out that Cham's not humanoid and Purple being supportive. An annoyed Neutral forcibly reintegrates, embarrased that they were arguing so in public.

Zoe chases Lori to get her to calm down. "Nass, I sound like my mother!"

Brainy suddenly realizes that nobody has pestered him the entire day.

Gallan is a remote world owned by McCauley, and we see how grim the pollution situation is. Spider-Girl wakes up fellow Workforce member Inferno, who sleeps with ALL the lights open. Hmm.. McCauley complains about falling production levels, to which a worker explains that most other employees have left because of the poor environmental and health situation. McCauley will have none of it, and further complains about the Science Police cruiser which landed without notification. Uh-oh...

Zoe is still looking for Lori, and encounters Triad. Poor Lu has a horrible headache. Zoe offers to help as she has some healing experience. Triad mentions that she cannot find Brainy.

Lori is in Rond's lab, and kisses him. A surprised Rond falls down, and an annoyed Lori says she felt nothing despite always believing the first kiss would be special.

In the Monitor Room, Cosmic Boy and Saturn Girl kiss. Shvaughn calls in with a report that the Science Police (SP) cruiser carrying Dr. Regulus was diverted to Gallan; and because Gallan is a private holding, the SPs have no jurisdiction. Cos notifies Violet, who assembles a team at once -

Violet leads Chameleon, Cosmic Boy, Leviathan, Kinetix, Spark, Triad, Ultra Boy and XS. We will see next issue that Apparition is along for the ride. And Violet chose to bring Dirk Morgna, despite Gim's misgivings. Dirk is understandably aggressive towards Regulus, which makes Gim push back. As the cruiser dives into the atmosphere, a beam burns a whole in the cruiser, and Violet orders the team to bail. They head for McCauley's industrial center, where we find him cowering in the dark. Evolvo, as an apeman, tries to start a fire. Spider-Girl complains about not going with Inferno and Karate Kid to check on the blackout. The Legion enters, and McCauley tells them all he knows - which is that the SP Cruiser landed, that a petrochem plant was wrecked and that the power went out. Vi deduces it was Regulus' doing, and splits the team into squads. Spider-Girl suggests she tag along with Ultra Boy's squad, but Jo rebuffs her. Poor Sussa.

Squad 1: Cosmic Boy, Kinetix and Triad. Another new thing for Zoe, she uses her telekinesis to agitate air molecules to provide light. Not a magic thing, though. They find and rescue Karate Kid from under some debris. Val was ambushed by someone with armor - Regulus.

Squad 2: Chameleon, Spark, Ultra Boy and XS face a panicked Inferno, whose fear of the dark is causing her to throw fire everywhere. Cham narrowly saves Spark, who warms up to him and apologizes for giving him the cold shoulder. XS zips in and slaps some sense into Inferno.

Squad 3: Leviathan, Violet and Dirk Morgna. As the only one to provide light, Dirk takes point (!). In no time at all they find Regulus, who tries burning them. Dirk realizes that Regulus can "see" heat signatures; and when he tries to attack Regulus, his own fire is absorbed. Regulus gloats that his armor's circuitry is linked to Gallan's planetary power grid, and that he can absorb energy! Cos' squad arrives to reinforce Vi's; and Zoe flirts with Gim a bit. Triad triplicates, only for each of her three bodies to be physically different - each has a different costume and hairstyle. Before they can figure out what happened, Regulus creates a shockwave through his new "command of electromagnetic forces", and tells the Legionnaires they will die!

Thoughts:

I love Jeff Moy's art, and his roll calls are a nice touch. Here we have Spark snubbing a concerned Chameleon as a sight gag. I especially loved the panel where XS blurts out Cham's identity as Spark's admirer - Ayla spills coffee all over her face (with a big SPOOT!), Lyle drops his tray and Cham's antennae stiffen! I also love how Moy worked in clues that Brainy was undetectable - we see Brainy right in the middle of the commissary, and succeeding panels show Chuck, Lori and Zoe all passing him, all without anyone noticing him at all.

I feel that the interpersonal conflicts and little moments were much better than the action in this issue, which consists of the Legionnaires searching for Regulus and stumbling around in the dark. There are some clever power uses though, such as XS outrunning Inferno's fireballs; Spark using electricity to disrupt the flames; Zoe using telekinesis to shield the team from debris; Cos wrapping Regulus up in metal. And Apeman Evolvo is just too funny.

My biggest criticism is the threat of Regulus. I still don't understand how he could get so powerful, even going so far as to create earthquakes and stuff. There isn't even any futuristic science explanation. It feels a bit lazy, unlike earlier stories with more solid science (Planet Hell's magnetic fields protecting it from the sun, the chemistry used to stop the Composite Man...)

The one-liners continue to entertain - Zoe's "Nass, I sound like my mother!" while chasing Lori; Gates' "Like you're such a great conversationalist" to Gim; and Thom's "Crash Kallor" nickname (Thom's pained comment, "one little accident and they never let you forget it", is hilarious too).

Zoe's powers continue to confuse - now it seems she's a generic magic user in addition to having telekinesis (conjuring an image of the Emerald Eye; helping heal Triad). At least the glow-in-the-dark thing is explained by telekinesis.

Bringing Triad along on the mission is an odd choice; her headache was so bad she was crouching in the hallway back in Legion HQ. I would have thought she would have been left behind, as her pain only started easing after the cruiser made the Stargate jump to Gallan. Bringing Dirk is an interesting choice as well - he shows no signs of being trained for these types of situations. And oh, Vi's puppy love is showing - grouping herself with Gim!

Alas poor Sussa, she still definitely has a thing for Jo. Well, he did pretty much drop her to go with Tinya, and we never saw him break up with her for good (the whole time, it was implied that he just "ghosted" her, heh). This always bothered me a bit, and I think that when Sussa finally gets over him she will definitely let him hear about it.

Last edited by Gaseous Lad; 11/01/22 11:33 AM.

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Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Gaseous Lad #1019884 11/01/22 10:19 AM
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LSH 82:

Watching Vi be the hyper-competent leader is fun to read.

What's with Jo? The cover image is really compelling and I'd say is definitely the lead story thread here. The Xanthu story just seems to be an excuse to get some characters away. However, we do get the next twist in the secret admirer saga between Cham and Ayla.

The Amazers are... interesting, although this is just an introduction and these four will have much more impact later on. Strange as it may sound, I like Jasmin with a chip on her shoulder about her brother's death. And Candi is interesting here - very much a Hulk clone versus what she would turn into later.

The Legion titles were good in that the cover images usually had some direct connection to the story content, and we get that here with the reveal of the arm sticking through Jo to be Winema. They are incredibly contentious, and I was a bit shocked at Winema's reaction to Jo's touch.

Gim becomes a bit more fully realized here. He's still the jerk he usually is around Thom especially with the prospect of getting rid of him, but when confronted by Jasmin, Gim's a bit more humble. When it comes to the cage match, the Amazers get the jump on the Legion, but only because Jasmin was cheating. The revelation about the Xanthan authorities being corrupt and using this to undo the supposed shame that James Cullen's death brought worked well and Jasmin comes out looking very positive. Also, I love Konk. smile

Then we get the return of Apparition as a real, well, apparition. This bothered me a lot as I thought they should have kept her dead, but its obvious from the "there are three of you" line in Legionnaires annual 2 that this was getting set up from then. So fine, she gets brought back. They are all in the room with Garth and Gym'll, so why doesn't Garth know about Tinya? Surely Jo and Winema would have addressed the fact that Jo is having a conversation with someone that only Jo and Winema can see. I dunno, it just bothered me.

I also have to say that I really enjoyed Moder's work in this issue, when I don't normally. Not sure what was different here, as its the same normal team on art, but it just looks better somehow.

Last edited by Gaseous Lad; 11/01/22 11:33 AM.

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Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1019886 11/01/22 10:38 AM
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Yay more Reboot reread goodness! Will post more later. For now, it was a great seeing Tinya’s partial return - I always related to her more for her overbearing mom troubles and her willingness to speak out against perceived injustices

Re: Reboot Reread - Sundown/Trouble on Titan
Gaseous Lad #1019887 11/01/22 10:41 AM
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Re Gim being confronted by Jazmin, was it really humility though? He seemed to lack empathy, and was woefully unprepared. His reply was just “we did everything we could…” i felt it was a missed chance. He just comes across as a jerk for making fun of Thom the whole time - I wish there had at least been a short speech re “Thom I don’t like you because you don’t even give a think about collateral damage when using your powers, how can you be a Legionnaire that way”

Good point re Garth and Gym’ll should have known about Tinya - surely Jo and Winema would have said something…

Also the Monstress characterisation here is hilarious, especially after comparing to her later changed personality

Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Invisible Brainiac #1019888 11/01/22 11:37 AM
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You may be right - humility may not be the correct word here. But he is definitely shocked to reality when he realizes that James' death isn't just about him (Gim, that is). He definitely is more of a jerk than not. Winema's reaction to Jo did much more to soften and bolster her character here when she took him to the infirmary.

Its funny how when I think of Monstress, I always have the chirpy nice rich girl in my head, so when I read this and she's Ms. Ben Grimm, I just have to laugh. laugh


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Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Gaseous Lad #1019889 11/01/22 11:39 AM
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Also - interesting note about the origin of Atom'x character name. Although I like Attaboy better smile


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Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Gaseous Lad #1019891 11/01/22 12:02 PM
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LOL at that Attaboy bit.Was realistic seeing Atom'x and Radion beating their chests over Kinetix... and Zoe didn't even pay either of them any mind lol! She was too worried about Vi tongue

and yeah, Winema being all "well, I can't hate a sick child" and figuring out how to use a flight ring to save Jo, were nice touches.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 11/01/22 12:03 PM.
Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Gaseous Lad #1019892 11/01/22 12:22 PM
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Legionnaires 39 -

I *really* love this scene with Kinetix and Lori. It shows off so many aspects of Zoe's personality in a short space of pages. Something I didn't note before - Zoe was fixing in on the Eye's location and Vi happened to send Lori to Zoe for advice just then. Coincidence?

A nice detail I always appreciated about Moy's drawing of the Legion's word is that things made sense. The SP cruiser is clearly based on the same design as the Legion cruiser, which makes sense in universe.

God the scene of the Xanthu mission returning and heading to the commissary is probably one of my favorite scenes ever. Off-duty moments are where some really golden character moments can be found! Jenni's letting loose the secret admirer truth to everyone is great, as is Gim eating like a pig. I agree with Ibby; its cute how Vi is making sure she is spending time around Gim officially versus telling him how she feels.

Brainy being left alone the entire time from going through the commissary to his lab should be a major red flag! smile

Lots of smooching going on. I'm still not a fan of an Imra/Rokk romance, to be honest.

Boy Gim is pretty much abrasive with EVERYONE, Dirk, even Vi. The scene in the cruiser is cute - Zoe working to heal Triad, Spark being... sparky, Rokk in love, and Cham looking over his shoulder.

I was fascinated by the tracking down of Inferno. First we get a description of how Zoe uses her powers, which tells us she can manipulate things at a very micro level, to Inferno's phobia of the dark. One would think that her powers would be able to stave off that, but its a fascinating aspect. I wasn't quite as convinced by Ayla's sudden turn of heart around Cham, even though he did save her life.

And then we end with the confrontation with Regulus. I think I noted this before, but its worth mentioning again. Things start to really get weirder when Zoe flirts a bit with Gim after he's knocked down. That's exactly the moment when Triad completely splits into three different people. I'm not sure if this is a direct causal relationship here, but looking back, it seems like it to me.

This is one of Jeff Moy's best issues in a series where he does consistently great work. This issue is probably one of the single best issues of Legionnaires across the run. Great art and a TON of stuff happening in 22 pages. This is how the Legion is supposed to be.


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Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Gaseous Lad #1019893 11/01/22 02:06 PM
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makes sense Vi would say Zoe is worldly and all that!

Moy is amazing... and indeed this issue was well-written, lots of character moments, and also action. The large cast is very well handled

Gim is not making many friends, is he?

I wonder if part of Ayla warming up to Cham is the Eye's influence? it WA a bit abrupt, but on the other hand she only acts grateful towards Cham and says she is ready to talk to him

and indeed, love how Moy can paint so many pictures, like that scene in the cruiser - so many things going on without being overwhelming! and he moves the plot (or at least characterization) along even without dialogue!

Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Gaseous Lad #1019894 11/01/22 02:09 PM
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Also, the poor sci-cops at the start. They made me care about Hawley dang it!

Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Gaseous Lad #1019902 11/01/22 07:47 PM
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I thought Ayla coming round to Cham was the Emerald Eye's shenanigans but looking back on that now, the implications are a bit icky if that's the case

Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Gaseous Lad #1019915 11/02/22 12:57 AM
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Same with the Imra/Rokk thing. Especially as both Cham/Ayla and Imra/Rokk continue to develop even after the Eye’s influence is supposedly gone

Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Gaseous Lad #1019917 11/02/22 04:12 AM
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LSH #82: Bit of fun. It really does feel weird hearing Monstress language and tone here compared to what I remember her like from her later appearances. Shrug. I too thought Jasmin's reactions were well done. Gim? He has been portrayed as not really being that good at empathising with others in this series so in that way it fits. Still he had shown growth in the earlier issues and I too wish he had the chance to give a better response to Jasmin considering how important that episode was in his own journey.

The cover hinting at the end and then supposedly being revealed not to be Tinya only to see Tinya actually revealed at the end reminds me a bit of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. The plot point of Spock dying had been leaked to the fans so they added the scene at the start of him dying only for it be revealed as a simulation, so as to throw off expectations and then suddenly reveal the truth of it at the end. I don't expect a 22 page comic to be able to achieve the same level but the twist at the end still worked that way.

Legionnaires #39: Moy's art is great and has definitely been one of the highlights of this series for me. Lots of slightly peculiar things happening here. I can't remember how I picked up on it on first reading years ago. Now of course its all obvious knowing what's coming but I have to wonder if for first time readers it just felt weird. Another thing I have enjoyed is all the character moments, which is very interesting to me with Roger Stern scripting. Tom McCraw still has his hand on the wheel but Stern does a great job with the dialogue fitting right in to the characters as they have been developed. A bit surprising to me, in a good way, as I have always liked him as a writer but I have never seen him on a "teen" book before and this is so different to his Avengers or Superman, and it is great to see that he can handle this group so well.

One other thing I noticed from the recent trivia question about Vi's uniform changes. It was in LSH #82 that she first starts wearing her sleeveless version as she takes over as leader.

Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
stile86 #1019927 11/02/22 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by razsolo
I thought Ayla coming round to Cham was the Emerald Eye's shenanigans but looking back on that now, the implications are a bit icky if that's the case
Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Same with the Imra/Rokk thing. Especially as both Cham/Ayla and Imra/Rokk continue to develop even after the Eye’s influence is supposedly gone

Agree, it was an odd thing. You have Imra/Rokk, but you also have Jenni/Rokk, as we'll see later, but that is clearly an illusion. Maybe it was just the eye performing the "hearts desire" wish on Vi's behalf, but some of the couples thought "hey, this isn't so bad" after the Eye was gone.

That said, I never though Cham and Ayla had any chemistry. Cham and Jekka seemed to be a much better pair. IMO of course. smile


Originally Posted by stile86
The cover hinting at the end and then supposedly being revealed not to be Tinya only to see Tinya actually revealed at the end reminds me a bit of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. The plot point of Spock dying had been leaked to the fans so they added the scene at the start of him dying only for it be revealed as a simulation, so as to throw off expectations and then suddenly reveal the truth of it at the end. I don't expect a 22 page comic to be able to achieve the same level but the twist at the end still worked that way.

Legionnaires #39: Moy's art is great and has definitely been one of the highlights of this series for me. Lots of slightly peculiar things happening here. I can't remember how I picked up on it on first reading years ago. Now of course its all obvious knowing what's coming but I have to wonder if for first time readers it just felt weird. Another thing I have enjoyed is all the character moments, which is very interesting to me with Roger Stern scripting. Tom McCraw still has his hand on the wheel but Stern does a great job with the dialogue fitting right in to the characters as they have been developed. A bit surprising to me, in a good way, as I have always liked him as a writer but I have never seen him on a "teen" book before and this is so different to his Avengers or Superman, and it is great to see that he can handle this group so well.

One other thing I noticed from the recent trivia question about Vi's uniform changes. It was in LSH #82 that she first starts wearing her sleeveless version as she takes over as leader.

Interesting point about the ST2 parallel. I hadn't thought about that.

It did feel weird on the first read, because you have lots of folks acting weird - Brainy is left alone, Imra and Rokk are together and the big one is Triad splitting. So it definitely felt like something was brewing beyond just Regulus.

About Roger Stern - I'm not sure if it started this early, but his wife Carmela did most of the dialogue for Legionnaires after a certain point mostly uncredited. He would create the plot outline and story beats, and she would write the dialogue (not sure how much she influenced Jeff's panel designs). This may be why his teen dialogue pops more than usual.


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Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Gaseous Lad #1019928 11/02/22 06:54 AM
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Anyone else besides me feel a little bit sorry for Sussa? She had a thing for Jo, and possibly more than physical. And Jo technically was still "with" her while also pursuing Tinya for a while.

Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Invisible Brainiac #1019930 11/02/22 07:14 AM
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Yeah if any character got a raw deal in the reboot more than Zoe, it was Sussa.

I really liked how they developed her up in 5YL, and they kept some of that at the beginning, as she is definitely morally grey. But she's very much in love with Jo and that makes a very awkward situation.

That said, it also made Jo look pretty honorable. When I compare this Jo with the one from the Threeboot that I just finished, this guy is a breath of fresh air, at least until the end of the v4 run where they become codependent and he imagines her cheating on him.

But I liked Sussa here and felt sorry for her.


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Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Gaseous Lad #1019967 11/03/22 12:27 AM
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Yeah, Sussa was hard done by...aside from the stuff with Jo, we never even got to see a Coipel-drawn Sussa when the Legion relaunched and I just know he would have made her look amazing SpiderGirl

Re: Reboot Reread - Lifestyles of the Dead/Wishful Thinking
Gaseous Lad #1019975 11/03/22 04:15 AM
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yeah, this Jo is way better than Threeboot Jo. despite all the grief, he stayed true to Tinya. And he did let Sussa down gently in L* 39, he was not a jerk about it.

and indeed it's a shame Sussa disappeared after Widening Rifts... although she lives on in fanfic land wink

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1020091 11/06/22 02:43 PM
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So in order to do Emerald Violet in one go, we're going to do a one off of LSH 83.

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legion of Super-Heroes 83
Big Tears

Issue information

Summary:

Rather an ominous issue title, no?

The tears aren't being shed by McCauley. With power - including lie support - failing all over Gallan, Evolvo has already ordered a planetary evacuation. McCauley rages, saying they could have worked them for another half day! Spider-Girl and Evolvo are more sensible, and McCauley is convinced to trigger his escape pod to bring the three of them into orbit so he can keep tabs on Gallan from a safe distance. To Spider-Girl's and Evolvo's protests, McCauley thinks the Legionnaires can take care of themselves, and that anyone on the Workforce is replaceable.

As the Legionnaires and their allies recover, Chameleon's squad bursts in to confront Regulus. Regulus blasts open some old transformers, which are "pre-regulatory models" that contain pure dichloraxin - one drop of which could paralyze someone. On Vi's orders, XS and Cosmic Boy try to contain the chemical. Apparition tells Ultra Boy to dodge, despite his invulnerability; if any drops get on his costume, he would be the hazard. A grateful Jo didn't think of this, and air-kisses phantom Tinya. Triad notices and Purple flirts with Jo ("Hey loverboy! Kissing air? Come here and I'll show you something better!"). Neutral and Orange admonish her and suggest they attack Regulus, but the three can't seem to get their act together and crash into each other - a sign that they are no longer truly Carggite? It's hard to say, because all three bodies disagree on who goes high and who goes low.

Violet orders everyone out, as the atmosphere is becoming too toxic. An angry Dirk Morgna refuses to listen, and blasts Regulus. Inferno joins him.

More weirdness afoot: The Triads can't recombine, and Cosmic Boy sees Saturn Girl... who turns out to be XS. Whoa. XS calls Cos her "heart's desire". Vi, at a loss, calls Gim, saying she can't get Inferno and Dirk to listen. Regulus quickly blasts the two fiery friends down; Vi has Inferno and Gim rushes in to save Dirk. A disappointed and surprised Vi calls out to him, to which he replies, "Sorry Vi honey, but I'm not letting another kid die because he's too stubborn to follow orders." Gim shows that he's still thinking of the first Kid Quantum, which is something we didn't see an issue ago (LSH 82). Gim finds Dirk, who isn't glowing anymore - he's powerless, but alive!

Outside, Regulus cracks open the ground and unearths McCauley's nuclear waste. In orbit, McCauley decides to unleash the rest of his waste to overwhelm Regulus, thinking that if he stops the threat now he could recover some hardware. Evolvo agrees, much to Spider-Girl's shock and consternation. She questions McCauley's willingness to ruin the ecosystem and let the Legionnaires die, to which McCauley responds, smugly, that he will simply build them a magnificent monument.

Back at Legion HQ, Gates is surprised that Invisible Kid and Star Boy are listening to his political opinions; that anyone would listen to him has always been his "heart's desire". Imra rushes to Element Lad, who is visited by visions of his dead parents, urging him to commit suicide and join them. Jan explains to a panicked Imra that, in Trommite culture,death is a reward and hs also been his "heart's desire". Garth comes in, showing Imra that his arm has been restored magically. And Brainy tries talking to everyone in the room, but nobody seems to notice him, causing him to question his existence.

Regulus continues feeding into the nuclear wastes on Gallan, and begins to grow. Kinetix leads Spark, Ultra Boy and Cosmic Boy in sealing off some pipes spewing acid. Cos cracks me up by saying "How could anyone - even McCauley - not see these as an environmental outrage? We should probably have come here long ago and kicked his butt!" To which Leviathan gleefully says he sounds like Gates. McCauley rants about this, to Spider-Girl's amusement.

Regulus has grown to gigantic size, and boasts that he controls the planet. Violet orders everyone into a nearby cruiser so they can escape. Leviathan is determined to stop Regulus, because he knows everyone will die if they can't get off-planet. He digs into the ground and grabs some acid pipes, and... breaks them open on Regulus! Regulus melts, and Gim falls to the ground, horribly scarred. Violet reaches him first, telling him he died a hero - which Gim says was his heart's desire. Violet begins glowing with green energy, which a scared Kinetix recognizes as the Emerald Eye... just before Vi teleports everyone back to Legion HQ and changes into an Emerald Empress-y outfit. Oops.

Thoughts:

Sigh, McCauley. What a nasshead!

Regulus - I wonder if the Eye had a hand in his increased power levels, to help fulfill Leviathan's wish of being a big hero. That's the only real explanation I have for why he can suddenly do what he did this issue.

The writers did do a good job of seeding us with clues that something was afoot. All the odd happenings with various Legionnaires, for one. Vi being the Emerald Empress was not obvious, but also not completely out of left field (as next issue will show).

The action, just like last issue, was kind of boring - though there were some good power uses again, such as Chameleon morphing into a ballon to gather everyone and XS dragging people to safety; Kinetix fusing pipes together for Spark, Cos and Jo to seal. I was hoping Violet would be more proactive and "leaderly", but she doesn't get to do that much here. Other Legionnaires like Cos, Gim and even Zoe take charge more than she does. The Legionnaires as a whole are also reactive, I never see them get together and think of strategies for stopping Regulus - instead, they react to the things he does (bursting pipes full of acid, unearthing nuclear waste) without trying to tackle him directly. The only ones who do are Inferno and Dirk (who fail), and Gim (who dies).

As for Dirk - not sure what his purpose was. He just loses his powers, he doesn't even get to be a hero.

But I guess that's realism, huh? In any crisis, people do not always know what to do. And the Legionnaires ARE young, and their inexperience shows.

Triad's powers - it's heavily implied that Carggites are able to excel at trijutsu because of, well, something inherent in their being Carggite. That's why the Triads' attack on Regulus fails. We will see hints of this much later, in LSH 107, where Triad proves to be a better trijitsu fighter than the Composite Durlan.

This issue goes a long way towards showing that Spider-Girl isn't all that bad, while Evolvo is incredibly greedy and possibly as amoral as McCauley is. Inferno is a mixed bag, she's clearly brave and all but is also hotheaded and impulsive, and I can't forget the time she killed a man way back in Legionnaires 22.

I did enjoy learning about the "heart's desires" of various Legionnaires. The writers remembered that the desires of Cosmic Boy and XS would be contradictory, and they seemed to consider that Live Wire's would be too. Here's a list:

Cosmic Boy - the love of Saturn Girl
Live Wire - to get his arm back and "be whole" for Imra
Saturn Girl - ? (guess the writers didn't want to spoil the love triangle)
Triad - to be three separate people (although Orange wasn't happy!)
Apparition - ? (likely not affected by the Emerald Eye)
XS - the love of Cosmic Boy
Chameleon - ? (it's not certain if Spark's about-face was this for him)
Invisible Kid - ?
Leviathan - to die in battle?
Spark - ?
Brainiac 5 - for nobody to notice and bother him
Kinetix - ?
Violet - ? (though we learn that being leader was part of it)
Star Boy -?
Gates - for people to listen to his opinions
Element Lad - death (!)
Ultra Boy - ? (though later, he and Tinya will question if Tinya's return is it)
Dirk Morgna - ? unlikely that his loss of his powers was it, as Violet would later say that she only commanded the Eye to fulfill the wishes of Legionnaires; plus, his power loss wasn't reversed, unlike the other changes


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1020092 11/06/22 03:14 PM
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I love to hate this McCauley. He's just a narcissistic jerk. I'm still disappointed that he was replaced by Ra's. In today's climate he portrays a realistic villain, unfortunately.

The plot in this really moves. Regulus keeps presenting an escalating dangerous scenario that the Legionnaires have to deal with, all with the odd occurrences of people's wishes coming true.

The scene in Legion HQ gave a great laugh with people fascinated and engaged with his political rants! I found it interesting that Imra has an alert for detecting when people consider self harm.

Great ironic moment when Zoe thinks the Eye would *solve* the predicament that they were in.

Gim's sacrifice was well told. Regulus had grown giant, so Gim would have been the only one to take him on head to head, despite Vi's order. He disobeys her to save the ship and ends up dying in the process, which leads us to the hearts desire conundrum. If Vi were granting wishes via the eye, it makes sense how Jenni could appear to be Imra and things like that. It's less clear how it could manipulate macro events like this, and it does beg the question whether the Eye was what ultimately resurrected Tinya's spirit. But it makes a great read.

The last page with the reveal of Vi as the Emerald Empress is pitch perfect, as we get the first hint of what's to come on page 18 with the green force field that Vi is able to cast.

My main criticism on this issue is the art. Its split between Lee Moder and Mike Collins, and they don't mesh well for me. Splitting hairs even further, the second section of Moder's (the last third) is really solid, while the first, at the beginning, is not great. Lu purple sure looks a lot larger than she should be in the splash page. I like how he draws Tinya there, but not many other characters. Collins is fine but its very different, and having different pencilers in a single issue is very jarring to me.

But overall, a classic, great story of the reboot!


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1020096 11/06/22 04:44 PM
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A lot happened and most of the cast got something to do. The mystery depends with more obvious “hearts desires” being shown - and also lots of characters saying the phrase over and over again.

Gim, despite having many unlikable moments, goes down a hero here indeed. Hard not to respect him!

I wonder if Dirk losing his powers and turning normal was also a heart’s desire? Though why would Vi and the Eye care, right?

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1020102 11/06/22 06:14 PM
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This has been a tricky one for me to parse my reactions, because I knew of the big reveals from later comics long before I was able to read this one. In some ways it felt like a treading water issue with not much actually achieved at first and yet it has heaps in terms of showing the weirdness of various legionnaires and their "heart's desires". Overall I think it works well.

I thought the three pages with Gim and Vi were terrific and very emotive and well done. Their interactions a couple of pages earlier though are confusing for me.

Why is Vi suddenly calling out to Gim for advice and admitting not knowing what to do? In the previous issue of Legionnaires they did spend a fair amount of time together talking but that was mostly Gim debriefing new leader Vi on what happened on Xanthu. On the way to Gallan, Gim is more grumpy with Vi and her decisions regarding Dirk than anything. Now suddenly she is turning to him for urgent advice and support and he is referring to her as "honey". I'm not sure if this is meant to be more weirdness or not. Also immediately after her "comming" him for help she is upset with him for going back into battle when she is trying to get everyone out. I think how Gim reacts in all this is fine and fits perfectly with his story (apart form the honey thing). It's Vi's comments that confuse me. Sounds like they are meant to be an item but this is all too quick for me, even with the original Legion pairing.

The art is a bit of a problem for me too but not the same way as for you GL. Lee Moder's art has always been a bit hit and miss for me, sometimes great and other times not. Particularly this issue there are times when his thin young teens look a bit more like Cham stretching or Mr Fantastic. I know he is trying to emphasise their youths but sometimes it is just too much for me. Unfortunately the final splash page falls into this category for me. I don't find this portrayal of Emerald Vi attractive at all, more grotesque. Probably just a personal taste thing but that's how it is. As for the Moder/Collins split there is definitely a difference but I think Collins did a good job trying to match with with Moder. Compare the face of Regulus on page 6 (Moder) with page 7 (Collins) or Triad on page 6 (Moder) with page 8 (Collins). Not a bad matching of style in my opinion.

Having said all that, Moder's Gim/Vi three pages are beautiful, really working with the script and conveying the emotion of the scene and the story behind it. Great stuff and the highlight of the issue for me.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
stile86 #1020119 11/07/22 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by stile86
In some ways it felt like a treading water issue with not much actually achieved at first and yet

this did cross my mind a bit. the whole time the Legionnaires were fighting Regulus, it seemed like they accomplished very little. oh, let's clean up this toxic spill. Oh, let's get everyone out of here. most of the time they were reacting, rather than trying to form a coherent plan to stop Regulus...

and I agree, Vi's leadership seems to take a small nosedive here. she was much more the able leader in the previous issue. was it the influence of the Eye waxing and waning? was she subconsciously showing some weakness so her love Gim could step up?

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1020124 11/07/22 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Gaseous Lad
I love to hate this McCauley. He's just a narcissistic jerk. I'm still disappointed that he was replaced by Ra's. In today's climate he portrays a realistic villain, unfortunately.

I agree....I didn't dislike a lot of the Ra's stuff, but it sucks that they killed McCauley off to do it. I felt the same way when Johns killed him, Brande, Myg and Rond off in LO3W (and later on when Levitz killed Micro Lad).

I am not opposed to characters dying if the story is in service to them and the death is memorable. Ferro Lad sacrificing himself to stop the Sun-Eater is a good story. Karate Kid dying to try and stop Nemesis Kid (even though it doesn't really stand up to too much scrutiny narratively) is thematically a good death because it calls back to them joining the team at the same time and it's very in character for Val to go up against an unbeatable opponent with just martial arts. McCauley dying off panel so that the Legion can fight a Batman villain? Eh. You're giving up a lot of potential stories for one just okay story.

I think this kind of thing is even more important with the Legion to be honest...with such a large cast, there are so little supporting cast members who have been developed enough to matter narratively, and McCauley was one of them who lasted across different incarnations of the book. It's really short-sighted to get rid of one of the few real background characters with lasting power just for shock value for a single story.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1020125 11/07/22 06:10 AM
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McCauley was an entertaining "villain" who was a bit more shades of grey. Immoral? yes. does illegal things? yes. would probably have a line that he does not cross, of course. would balk at anything that would actually get him caught, in jail, and away from his riches. he was quite unique.

and agree, the way a character dies is important. Ferro Lad, Karate Kid, Leviathan sacrificing themselves in battle... or even Kid Quantum I dying because of his arrogance, sure. off-panel McCauley death, not so much...

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Invisible Brainiac #1020128 11/07/22 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
I wonder if Dirk losing his powers and turning normal was also a heart’s desire? Though why would Vi and the Eye care, right?

....

and I agree, Vi's leadership seems to take a small nosedive here. she was much more the able leader in the previous issue. was it the influence of the Eye waxing and waning? was she subconsciously showing some weakness so her love Gim could step up?


Originally Posted by stile86
I thought the three pages with Gim and Vi were terrific and very emotive and well done. Their interactions a couple of pages earlier though are confusing for me.

Why is Vi suddenly calling out to Gim for advice and admitting not knowing what to do? In the previous issue of Legionnaires they did spend a fair amount of time together talking but that was mostly Gim debriefing new leader Vi on what happened on Xanthu. On the way to Gallan, Gim is more grumpy with Vi and her decisions regarding Dirk than anything. Now suddenly she is turning to him for urgent advice and support and he is referring to her as "honey". I'm not sure if this is meant to be more weirdness or not. Also immediately after her "comming" him for help she is upset with him for going back into battle when she is trying to get everyone out. I think how Gim reacts in all this is fine and fits perfectly with his story (apart form the honey thing). It's Vi's comments that confuse me. Sounds like they are meant to be an item but this is all too quick for me, even with the original Legion pairing.

Really good points and I picked up on some of this, too. My take is similar to Ibby's'; I think things were getting out of control, and Vi+Eye were starting to get spread thin. Although I took Dirk going back to normal as an afteraffect of the battle with Regulus, a case could be made for the Eye making that happen, too.

The "honey" comment I took as Vi's wish getting fulfilled; not only did she want to be admired and respected by her team, she also wanted Gim's affections. Things were getting too out of hand and more dangerous than Vi could have predicted, and she was too spread thin and also didn't have enough tactical experience.

Originally Posted by stile86
The art is a bit of a problem for me too but not the same way as for you GL. Lee Moder's art has always been a bit hit and miss for me, sometimes great and other times not. Particularly this issue there are times when his thin young teens look a bit more like Cham stretching or Mr Fantastic. I know he is trying to emphasise their youths but sometimes it is just too much for me. Unfortunately the final splash page falls into this category for me. I don't find this portrayal of Emerald Vi attractive at all, more grotesque. Probably just a personal taste thing but that's how it is. As for the Moder/Collins split there is definitely a difference but I think Collins did a good job trying to match with with Moder. Compare the face of Regulus on page 6 (Moder) with page 7 (Collins) or Triad on page 6 (Moder) with page 8 (Collins). Not a bad matching of style in my opinion.

Having said all that, Moder's Gim/Vi three pages are beautiful, really working with the script and conveying the emotion of the scene and the story behind it. Great stuff and the highlight of the issue for me.

I actually agree with a lot of what you're saying here about the almost-emaciation of the characters. I didn't like his Emerald Vi either - I much preferred Moy's version here. I prefer his pencils generally, and he actually did the design work for this version of the character, so his version is definitely better.

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
McCauley was an entertaining "villain" who was a bit more shades of grey. Immoral? yes. does illegal things? yes. would probably have a line that he does not cross, of course. would balk at anything that would actually get him caught, in jail, and away from his riches. he was quite unique.

Exactly - he's a narcissist, like several people we see in the news a lot these days. He really works as a villain as he's always out for himself. His line is anything that would put him or his fortune in jeopardy.

Last edited by Gaseous Lad; 11/07/22 07:36 AM.

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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
razsolo #1020130 11/07/22 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by razsolo
Originally Posted by Gaseous Lad
I love to hate this McCauley. He's just a narcissistic jerk. I'm still disappointed that he was replaced by Ra's. In today's climate he portrays a realistic villain, unfortunately.

I agree....I didn't dislike a lot of the Ra's stuff, but it sucks that they killed McCauley off to do it. I felt the same way when Johns killed him, Brande, Myg and Rond off in LO3W (and later on when Levitz killed Micro Lad).

I am not opposed to characters dying if the story is in service to them and the death is memorable. Ferro Lad sacrificing himself to stop the Sun-Eater is a good story. Karate Kid dying to try and stop Nemesis Kid (even though it doesn't really stand up to too much scrutiny narratively) is thematically a good death because it calls back to them joining the team at the same time and it's very in character for Val to go up against an unbeatable opponent with just martial arts. McCauley dying off panel so that the Legion can fight a Batman villain? Eh. You're giving up a lot of potential stories for one just okay story.

I think this kind of thing is even more important with the Legion to be honest...with such a large cast, there are so little supporting cast members who have been developed enough to matter narratively, and McCauley was one of them who lasted across different incarnations of the book. It's really short-sighted to get rid of one of the few real background characters with lasting power just for shock value for a single story.

Yeah, and in retrospect, I'm wondering why DnA did what they did. They could have easily had Leland captured in stasis or something. The Ra's stuff really didn't have the payoff I think they intended. It was a great reveal, but then it didn't pay off as it should have, especially when they had the coda to the Terrorforms story. That was really bad.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
razsolo #1020150 11/07/22 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by razsolo
Originally Posted by Gaseous Lad
I love to hate this McCauley. He's just a narcissistic jerk. I'm still disappointed that he was replaced by Ra's. In today's climate he portrays a realistic villain, unfortunately.

I agree....I didn't dislike a lot of the Ra's stuff, but it sucks that they killed McCauley off to do it. I felt the same way when Johns killed him, Brande, Myg and Rond off in LO3W (and later on when Levitz killed Micro Lad).

I am not opposed to characters dying if the story is in service to them and the death is memorable. Ferro Lad sacrificing himself to stop the Sun-Eater is a good story. Karate Kid dying to try and stop Nemesis Kid (even though it doesn't really stand up to too much scrutiny narratively) is thematically a good death because it calls back to them joining the team at the same time and it's very in character for Val to go up against an unbeatable opponent with just martial arts. McCauley dying off panel so that the Legion can fight a Batman villain? Eh. You're giving up a lot of potential stories for one just okay story.

I think this kind of thing is even more important with the Legion to be honest...with such a large cast, there are so little supporting cast members who have been developed enough to matter narratively, and McCauley was one of them who lasted across different incarnations of the book. It's really short-sighted to get rid of one of the few real background characters with lasting power just for shock value for a single story.
So raz what did you think of Leviathan's death here? Appropriate, a good death, or unfortunate and just to advance Vi's story?

Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36 - Emerald Vi/Emerald Legion
Gaseous Lad #1020522 11/20/22 04:32 PM
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OK, let's get to it! Emerald Violet/Emerald Legion!!!

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legionnaires 40
Emerald / Violet


Issue Information

Summary:

Kinetix tells her teammates that they need to get the Emerald Eye away from Violet. Violet laughs as she blasts everyone back. She then teleports away non-Legionnaires Inferno, Dirk Morgna and Karate Kid, while teleporting all the Legionnaires to her - including M'Onel from deep space. M'On recognizes the Eye from his time in the 20th century. Vi forces the Legion to call the roll, then dispatches Brainiac 5 to place Leviathan's body in stasis. Kinetix tries to talk Vi out of using the Eye's power; Vi counters by pointing out Zoe's powerlust; how "playing with molecular bonds" wasn't enough for her! Vi adds how lonely and outclassed she felt, by just being able to shrink. Zoe asks why Vi never said anything, as they were friends. Vi counters that Zoe was missing. She reveals that she encountered the Eye in the Scavenger's lair, and that the Eye gave her energy and confidence. She blames the Legionnaires for not giving her attention and friendship, something which the Eye took advantage of.

She is interrupted by Shvaughn firing at the Eye, causing it to break apart - until it reforms an instant later. Violet quickly deages Shvaughn into infancy. As Kinetix and others try to talk Vi down, she keeps ranting about how the Eye made her feel wonderful and how people began noticing her, about Leviathan noticing only Kinetix and not her, about slowly becoming more assertive and finally becoming Legion leader. She had to keep her distance from Zoe, for fear Zoe would detect the Eye. Then Vi says she began using the Eye to grant everyone their "heart's desire", leading Ultra Boy and Apparition to wonder if the latter's return was the Eye's doing. Jo tries to question Vi on this, but is blasted back. She angrily turns some Legionnaires into frogs to punish them for failing to save Leviathan. Then she dispatches M'Onel, Live Wire, XS and Ultra Boy to help her bring Gim back to life, and leaves the few remaining Legionnaires alone.

Cos goes to check on the staff, while Saturn Girl, the Triads and Kinetix gather. Zoe wonders why she wasn't sent, as she has healing experience. Imra says she planted a telepathic suggestion in Vi to leave Zoe, as Zoe has the most knowledge about the Eye.

M'Onel materializes in the Anterean System, questioning the Al'Khaulytes on their reanimation of the dead. When they rebuff him, Vi takes control of M'On and makes him attack the acolytes.

Upon claiming Leviathan's body, Garth, Jenni and Jo are told there is no hope. The coroner's scanners suddenly pick up a concenrtation of ectoplasm in Jo's body. An angry Violet pops in and asks the three why they haven't done anything; she takes control of XS and spurs her to tear up the lab looking for research. When Garth says they can't bring Gim back, Vi punishes him by removing his restored arm. Luckily for the acolytes M'Onel is attacking, M'On is freed of control at this moment.

Jo and Tinya use the opportunity to run away. Tinya uses the scanner as evidence that she really does exist independently of the Eye. Vi confronts Jo, and doesn't register Tinya's presence. Vi grabs Jo and disappears.

In the VR Room, Triad has the idea of using the VR systems while she, Zoe and Imra plot against the Eye. Theoretically, the VR array should interfere with any eavesdropping, telepathic or otherwise. Sadly, it doesn't work, and Vi teleports in and tries to drown the three of them plus Jo. The Eye manifests an image of Violet, who is meaner. Zoe and Imra try to convince Vi that the Eye is twisting her. Vi tries to stop her double, and begins questioning it. But the Eye overpowers Vi's doubts, and takes over the rest of the Legion's minds - turning them into the Emerald Legion!

Thoughts:

Interesting slash in the title. A play on the fact that both "emerald" and "Violet" are colors?

Well, the story isn't much, a lot of it is Violet acting irrationally under the thrall of the Eye. She's grieving and under mind control, so that explains some of it, but... I wish the writers had revealed more about the reanimation of the dead ritual in Antares. Unlike the Adventure Era story of Lightning Lad's revival, we are given no clue here as to why the ritual couldn't work on Gim. I wish that had been addressed, it's a rather glaring blind spot especially given how desperate Violet was.

Again, I love the little bits that Jeff Moy works into his art. When Vi blasts everyone,you can see Triad Purple's arm slamming into Inferno's nose, and Inferno glowering at her a panel later. The roll call is another great look into personalities, with some Legionnaires looking more agressive than others - such as Garth and Jo and Gates. The Emerald Legion costumes are great too - Brainiac 5 becomes a mini-Brainiac, complete with the wires on his head; Kinetix's costume reminds me of a genie; Jo gets facial hair and a beard; Spark's hair is all spiky; and interestingly, M'Onel gets headgear similar to Leviathan's.

The dialogue continues to shine. Little things like Gates snapping he doesn't appreciate being teleported against his will; Garth trying to give Vi a piece of his mind during roll call; XS barely whispers. I laughed at Gates' line when Violet punishes him and others for failing to revive Leviathan by turning them into frogs - "But I wasn't even there!"

Other nice bits: Jan admonishing Shvaughn for drawing her blaster right away, as he believes in peace. In one panel, Triad Purple sticks her tongue out at Emerald Vi.

Zoe does have a bit of an ego, wondering why Vi didn't send her along to help save Gim because she has healing experience. Expecting rationality from the Eye smile And Zoe also kept thinking that she could have used the Eye's power to save Gim, while warning against using the Eye. I can understand Vi's annoyance during those instances.

I can understand why some people feel that Vi's possession by the Eye ruined her. As Vi monologues, the background art contains many instances of the new, confident Vi we have been seeing for nealry a year - her defeat of Scavenger and a brainwashed Jan Arrah, becoming Legion leader. It certainly seems like all this is the Eye's doing, and none of it Vi's own growth.

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Legion of Super-Heroes 84
Emerald Legion

Issue information

Summary:

In Workforce HQ, Inferno is keeping tabs on the Legion. Despite McCauley ordering her to stay, she blasts a hole in the wall and goes to check it out.

Violet seems to have forgotten her mission to resurrect Leviathan - possibly a reflection of the Emerald Eye's stronger control over her. She leads the Emerald Legion in "changing the world". First stop? A Science Police officer in a shoot-out with two bad guys and a hostage. The officer and the two bad guys get turned into animals, but the hostage is left alone. Apparition tries to snap Ultra Boy out of it by reestalishing a psychic link (?!), but can't. She zips away, only to phase through Saturn Girl, awakening her.

Tinya dashes back to Legion HQ. Lori is cuddling the baby-fied Shvaughn, who still has her adult mind. Marla Latham is trying to man the Monitor Board. He gets a call from a familiar face, Nura Nal, who sounds very ditzy - completely unlike the self-assured Nura of the Preboot. "Nura Nal? But you can call me Nura? But please, not Nurry? Well, I get these sort of visions? Like dreams? but they come true? And I dreamt the Legion was in this explosion? And only half of them came out? so..."

Marla cuts her off, telling her to check back when she hits reality. Oops. Inferno burns her way in, looking for Violet.

Imra tries to reach Violet's mind; just as she succeeds, Vi and the Eye are alerted and blast her. Imra links with the Eye and tries to turn it on Vi, but Vi shrinks out of the way and lets Imra get hit. She suffers no damage, but is instead turned normal and without any of the Eye's power. Members of the new Emerald Legion group mind try to retrieve Imra, but Vi stops them. She says "part of Eye" wants her back, but that they must reshape the world first - a clear sign that the Eye is dominating Vi, and explaining why we seem to have forgotten about the resurrection of Gim. Vi and company teleports to a satellite around Earth, molding it in their image.

Imra returns to HQ, and she can see Tinya too. She also shuts up a snarky Inferno. Imra commandeers a cruiser and invites Inferno and Tinya along. Shvaughn insists on going, and Imra agrees much to everyone's surprise (including Shvaughn's!)

The Emerald Legionnaires are spreading out, transforming sections of the Earth. There are some traces of individuality; Brainy's landscape looks like a computer, while Jan turns his into crystal. They are all speaking in a group mind though...

... except Gates. As someone says, "All who live will live as EYE wish," Gates begins to question. "That's imperialism!" he thunders. With some effort, he remembers his beliefs, saying "the only legitimate power belongs to the masses! They must be free to exercise their right to self-determination..." And is stopped by Kinetix turning him into an egg! The Emerald Legion is outraged that she has fractured the group mind. Violet says she could have compensated for Gates' independence, as he is all talk. Kinetix says she's not, and fires upon the Eye. Kinetix and Violet get into an all-out brawl for the Eye's power, much to the shock of the Emerald Legionnaires. All are confused, and can do nothing. Enter Imra's crew; Imra transmits a feeling of thinking independently, and this is enough to shake Brainiac 5 and M'Onel from the Eye's control. Guess we know which Legionnaires are the most independent, huh?

Despite Brainy's warnings, M'On tries to block the Eye's energy, and gets thrashed for his efforts. Imra, Shvaughn, Inferno and Tinya burst in, and Tinya tries to reach a catatonic Jo. Some Legionnaires remain catatonic, while some attack Inferno and Shvaughn.

Violet gets the upper hand and tells the Eye to show Kinetix that the Eye chose Vi; the Eye zaps Zoe, draining her and turning her into a wizened crone. Zoe still tries to reach the Eye despite all this. Violet reacts in horror, and at the battles between Legionnaires. Her speech is telling: "We weren't supposed to hate each other! Eye just wanted to be part of the group, Eye didn't want to destroy it! None of this should have happened! Eye want it undone! Take me back! Back in time! Undo it all. Eye! I command you - take me back!"

And then everything goes kablooey!

Thoughts:

Love the cover. A bunch of Legionnaires blinded by a big explosion of light. Very dramatic.

Well, some more inconsistencies. Some Legionnaires fight back against Imra's crew, others just stand there doing nothing. It does convey the tug-of-war between Vi and the Eye for control. though, and how the Eye overextended itself trying to control so many Legionnaires at once. Again, I can't say that the action in this issue was very compelling, though.

Inferno - well, I still don't get what drove her to investigate, besides curiosity. She seems shoehorned in, unlike Shvaughn. Imra certainly told Inferno off, grabbing her arm before she could throw her flame. I love her line, "I have just been through a majorly weird ordeal, and am in no mood to patronize a strutting bully."

I do like the inclusion of Shvaughn. I have always been a big fan, and it's nice to have a non-powered supporting character get more screen time. (minor note: last issue, she seemed to be mentally a baby, spouting baby talk. Now she speaks like an adult...)

Lori thinking baby Shvaughn was cute was hilarious.

We get another familiar face - Nura Nal. One of the last Adventure Era Legionnaires to not yet have been reintroduced. Sadly, I agree with many others - this Nura is nothing like the self-assured, vampy yet smart Nura we all knew - the one who had a clear handle on her act, with every move calculated just so. This one seems like a valley girl.

Gates and Kinetix are the first two Legionnaires to resist the Eye, without outside help. Not too surprised, nor am I surprised that Brainy and M'On were the two most receptive to Imra's telepathic interference.

Last edited by Gaseous Lad; 11/20/22 04:52 PM.

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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1020523 11/20/22 04:51 PM
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Legionnaires 40 - Being a huge Vi fan, I have to say that I was wanting this to be over so that she would go back to normal. Little did I realize we'd be stuck with Emerald Vi for most of a year! The roll call in this is probably one of my favorite things - its a creative way to include that directly into the story along with showing some nice touches of character personality. One thing I found interesting was Thom being very sullen as part of the dialog. I always thought that he and Vi seemed to have a mutual-respectful friendship, and even though we are at the beginning of Thom really being in the team, it kind of feels like he's disappointed. I'm wondering if he may have legit voted for Vi without the Eye's influence.

What I hated, and pretty much always hate with any Emerald Eye appearance anymore is the Eye/I swapping in the dialogue. I find it quite annoying.

Also, and I think this is something that I've discussed before, is that I think its very ambiguous as to whether or not the Eye had direct control over Vi's building confidence. She stopped the Collector. She stopped Starfinger. All without using any special powers. I just took this to be the Eye really doing a mindjob on her to keep her under the Eye's control.

Also - the Emerald Legion designs are fantastic.

LSH 84 - This gets more interesting as its the endgame. I always find it problematic when controlled Legionnaires make all kinds of changes like what Element Lad did, for example. How did that affect the citizens? Was anyone hurt or killed? I had the same problem with the Legion of the Damned storyline. But getting beyond that the story progresses in a way that makes sense. It felt right that Imra would be the first one to resist the Eye's influence, just as how Gates would be next as the Eye's power began to get spread too thin. The bit about Imra seeing Tinya was purely to set up what was to come in the C20 storyline, but that's fine. But as things really start to fall apart for Violet, it makes sense that she and Zoe would fight over the Eye, just as Vi would start to feel guilty about what was happening.

I wasn't a big fan of baby Shvaughn, but I did like the Nura cameo. And the cliffhanger ending was as good as they get. Great story all around.

By the way - just as a note, this will end the current Archive, and I guess we can do Archive 37. We need to figure if we want to do it in the order of the "L" stories, focus on T30 or T20, or what.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1020534 11/21/22 01:53 AM
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Agree,
Loved the L* 40 roll cal. Also the small touches like Dirk hitting Inferno on tbe nose

Baby Shvaughn was funny. I did enjoy how Shvaughn, Marla, Sandy, Nura all got little moments

Gates and Zoe being too independent, and also Brainy and Mon being next, were nice touches too - makes sense that they would be the most assertive

There are bits of the original personalities buried under, like Cos being all “Eye thought we were in love” while chasing Imra


Zoe’s ego is also a tad apparent in L*40. “Why didn’t Vi send me on her Gim mission? She knows I have healing experience!”


And I get that everything was happening so fast, so the team didn’t really have time to mourn Gim

Vi turning 5 Legionnaires into frogs was funny, and Gates being all “ but I wasn’t even there!”

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 11/21/22 02:01 AM.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1020535 11/21/22 02:13 AM
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The Emerald Legion costumes were awesome, it's kind of a shame that it was such a one-off thing....I remember Gates looked super creepy!

Using eye instead of I also annoys the crap out of me and has annoyed the crap out of me every time it's appeared...it doesn't make any sense to differentiate the words when they sound exactly the same, and every time I've ever seen it appear it just takes me out of the story because I'm suddenly conscious I'm reading scripted dialogue. To me it's like the comic book equivalent of when you see the boom mic in a TV show.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1020537 11/21/22 02:20 AM
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I came back to say that, the emerald legion designs were cool! Revealing too lol

Liked the Imra pink bikini throwback, and Lu still having 3 separate designs. And Jo ‘s was sexy , while Zoe’s made her look like a genie. cham’s was a nice mix of his humanoid and original Durlan forms

And Mon’s headgear seemed like a subconscious link to original version Gim with his Reboot headgear

I didn’t mind the Eye thing too much as it emphasised the Eye was it’s own entity - though it did get old after a while

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 11/21/22 02:21 AM.
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1020540 11/21/22 02:25 AM
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Oh yeah I forgot about Cham - he had the Chthulhu head, right? That was cool too!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
razsolo #1020545 11/21/22 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by razsolo
Oh yeah I forgot about Cham - he had the Chthulhu head, right? That was cool too!

Came here to say this! laugh

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Zoe’s ego is also a tad apparent in L*40. “Why didn’t Vi send me on her Gim mission? She knows I have healing experience!”

And I get that everything was happening so fast, so the team didn’t really have time to mourn Gim

And a bit dense in the moment, too - you'd think she'd be focusing on the Eye. That said, you're right in that they just saw one teammate die and another revealed to be possessed, so their thinking may not be straight.

Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Vi turning 5 Legionnaires into frogs was funny, and Gates being all “ but I wasn’t even there!”

Gates always gets the best lines. So it is written, so it shall be done. smile

Originally Posted by razsolo
Using eye instead of I also annoys the crap out of me and has annoyed the crap out of me every time it's appeared...To me it's like the comic book equivalent of when you see the boom mic in a TV show.

This is the BEST description of why it annoys me - it totally takes me out of the story, because I have to mentally make that substitution of the word for the article. The folks at DC needs to know that its a horrible idea. laugh


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1020548 11/21/22 07:27 AM
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Gates is the best, nearly every line of his is quotable! He’s gold smile

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archive 36
Gaseous Lad #1020762 11/28/22 09:56 PM
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L 40/LSH 84

I don't remember any of this. Bonus! As I think I mentioned the last Legion comic I had was the end of the White Triangle War and it was a long time before I got hold of the rest, so while I am familiar with some of the outcomes most of the rest has only been read once. It's almost like reading it for the first time. Yay!

Having said that I found these two issues - alright - not bad. Maybe I was expecting something more and so was a little disappointed. Still it has a lot of good in it and I am still enjoying it. The steps in the story of Vi's increasing succumbing to the Eye, Kinetix reactions to the whole thing, the threat of the Emerald Legion, Imra's breaking free and then leading the "reserves" in the form of Inferno, Tinya and Shvaughn, the tussle between Zoe and Vi, and especially Vi's final revelation of the consequences of her actions, these are all great. it just feels like they could have been put together a little better. Still a good story even if I knew where it was heading.

I was thinking about the comments of the Eye being behind Vi's growing confidence and whether that was a detriment to the character. The thing is it seem that the Eye didn't actually do anything except give her more confidence in herself. Vi still achieved all of those victories. However that confidence came about, it was still Vi that did it. I only hope when this is all over that she realises that herself. Probably a good lesson for us all.

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