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Re: Re-reading the Threeboot
razsolo #1018228 09/03/22 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by razsolo
I mean honestly, make Night Girl a kickass martial artist and Stone Boy a kickass wrestler and none of the original Subs need any kind of modification or enhancement to be a legit member of a superteam these days. Heck, give Chlorophyll Kid a handful of Black Mercy seeds and he could take down Darseid on his own!

Yeah, given the plethora of weird and exotic powered animals in the future, from earthquake beasts to lightning beasts, I'm sure there are many interesting *plants* as well that Chlor could carry the seeds to. If anything, he could get a little out of hand, like when some writer decides that Animal Man can emulate the traits of some made-up alien beastie and essentially just have any super-power he wants, since he's literally making up the alien animal on the spot.

While I love the idea of Stone Boy learning to 'sleepwalk' and move while in his stone form, I don't really love Polar Boy's transformation from 'generates cold' to 'creates ice out of nothing, even in space, like Marvel's Iceman.' That always feels cheap to me, when an established character with a defined power just sort of slowly morphs into doing stuff that a visually similar and more successful character does, even if their powers didn't actually originally work that way...

And if one *is* going to rip off a pre-existing character to enhance one you're currently writing, at least stay in-house! Use DC characters! Have Lydda start using blackout bombs inspired by 20th century crimefighters, Dr. Midnite, or blacklight rays from bracelets like Phantom Lady. Mine that rich DC history!


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Re: Re-reading the Threeboot
Set #1018229 09/03/22 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Set
or blacklight rays from bracelets like Phantom Lady
She even had the costume for it during the Grell era for 5 minutes!

Last edited by razsolo; 09/03/22 12:04 PM.
Re: Re-reading the Threeboot
Gaseous Lad #1018255 09/04/22 04:49 PM
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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #38

Released March 26, 2008
DC Comics, Color
22 Pages

Enemy Rising Part 1: Headlong Into Darkness

Jim Shooter - Writer
Francis Manapul - Penciller
Livesay - Inker
Jo Smith - Colorist
Mike Marts - Editor

Synopsis

Shadow Lass fights one of the mysterious creatures from the situation on Triton on her homeworld of Talik VIII. It takes her out, but Brainiac 5 teleports in and promptly vomits. The creature tries to zap him with a beam mounted in its chest, but Brainy is protected by his force field, which the creature tries to analyze. Brainy helps Tasmia kill the creature. It disappears.

Back at HQ, everyone seems to be gathering in the common area. Brainy and Tasmia return using Brainy's proto-tech, and promptly hurl on the floor. Saturn Girl's Triton team also returns. Saturn Girl has been mentally reining in Timber Wolf to prevent him from hurting her or anyone else, and it is wearing on both of them.

The rest of the team overhears this and an argument breaks out over whether Imra did the right thing, or if Timber Wolf should even be on the team. The argument heats up when Garth steps in - as leader he needs to do something and lets Brin decide. Even though he wants to literally kill Imra, he'll settle for a guarantee she'll keep to herself. Imra agrees and apologizes, but Garth makes Brin agree to control himself better. Projectra arrives just before the health inspector, who barges in because Garth had put up a quarantine sign to keep away visitors. Projectra gets served notice that she is being sued.

Later, Brainy comes up with a plan for people to find components of the alien attackers so that he can determine what they are. Lyle jumps at the chance to return to Triton.

Ayla talks to Garth in the training room, and says she's proud of the way he's been leading.

Lu and Val go to the Scattered Disk region to search for any remains. Likewise, Tinya in at the Oort cloud. Neither group finds anything. On Triton, Lyle goes to find Gizelle's parents to help her. Turns out she was in jail, but had her sentence commuted and left on her own. He also finds out there was one alien that did not destruct and its on the way to Earth.

In Metropolis, Projectra meets with her lawyers. She's in a bad situation financially and legally. Leaving the office, she is approached by fans seeking an autograph who touch her. At HQ, Garth, Lyle and Brainy try to think of a way to get access to the alien body. Imra is getting into her medi-tank when a message comes in requesting her help - Projectra may have killed somone!

Commentary

Another solid outing from Shooter and Manapaul here. I'm kind of amazed at how many things Shooter has going on here. Lots of issues here that were not yet resolved in 39 are mostly dealt with. Garth seems to be getting his feet under him, once he can get a decent night's sleep. Manapaul was excellent here - his sequence with Shady and Brainy was really cool to read. Its an interesting choice to have Brainy come up with a new transportation method, but it makes the person sick. It was kind of funny but also kind of gross seeing Brainy hurl. Still its neat to see that he has to refine the tech he comes up with. I think the concept kind of overstayed its welcome, although it was interesting to use that to bring up Val's tantric abilities (which I'm sure Ayla won't share her Friends w/Benefits status). Who else is next for either teen? It really feels like Ayla has some serious committment issues - that would be an interesting thing to explore.

To me, the centerpiece for this issue is the debate about Imra. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'm never a fan of when Imra controls her teammates. I'm glad Shooter addresses this here, and the argument rings true. We'll see where this goes, as everytime she vows not to, she does. Her punishment should have been more, but like Brin said, being his girlfriend, Garth would likely just make a slap on the wrist.

They definitely seem to be going somewhere with Projectra; I very much want to see where they take that cliffhanger.

A few other notes:

Neat to see Jan and Luornu still together. Why are Cham's antennae up? That's only supposed to happen when he detects something new. I'm sure its a newbie mistake on Shooter or Manapaul's part. But Ultra Boy is still being an ass.

I like how Ayla and Tinya are buds here. It seems to work.

It's also good to see Ayla feeling proud of her brother.

Neat bit about Gizelle's dad being saved by Garth. Lyle sure seemed to get over his Supergirl crush fast, didn't he?

Grade: B+. Really good issue, pretty well paced, but there is almost too much going on here.


Interested in the Post-Zero Hour Reboot Legion? Check out:

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Fan Fiction: The Legion of Super-Heroes v4.1 (continuing the reboot from issue 126!) on LW or here (external)

Re: Re-reading the Threeboot
Gaseous Lad #1018269 09/05/22 01:43 AM
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It's also good to see Ayla feeling proud of her brother.
I do remember liking this when I was reading Shooter's run...I think the reboot was really the first place to do Garth and Ayla right as far as being twins, I'm glad Shooter picked up on them actually acting like close siblings again when he took over the threeboot.

For as much as all the old comics drummed into us how twins were the norm on Winath, you hardly ever saw Garth and Imra act like any twins I have ever known!

Legion of Super Heroes v5 #41
Gaseous Lad #1018286 09/05/22 06:47 PM
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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #41

Released April 30, 2008
DC Comics, Color
23 Pages

Enemy Rising Part 2: Busted!

Jim Shooter - Writer
Aaron Lopresti - Penciller
Matt Ryan - Inker
Jo Smith - Colorist
Mike Marts - Editor

Synopsis

We pick up where we left off in Metropolis with Projectra being approached for autographs and attacking the fans. Timber Wolf tries to hold Projectra back, but is clobbered by her instead. Just in time, Saturn Girl arrives and reverse-psychs Projectra to not waste her time. Thankfully, the man gets up and survived whatever Projectra did. Imra and Brin convince her to provide the picture.

Brin and Imra both are mystified by Projectra's powerful punch. Brin followed her when she went to visit the lawyers. He also lets loose that he hoped Imra would do some more mind wiping.

At HQ Command Center, Invisible Kid, Brainiac 5 and Lightning Lad are all ranting about their own issues when a redhead SP officer appears, but it doesn't trick Brainy. He tweak's the officer's nose and she turns into Cham. Its decided that Lyle will infiltrate.

Elsewhere, M'Rissey meets with Caulfield Zander and offers a trade of information for cash.

Invisible Kid makes it into the autopsy while the Legionnaires monitor remotely. M'Rissey appears at the Legion infirmary and seems to return Star Boy's ring. Ayla arrives to the command center and freaks out when she sees what's going on. Brainy has Lyle turn and look to the observation deck and sees the "tryout" Legionnaires from a couple issues ago - they are the security measures in place - and it seems as if Gazelle is among them. Spy senses something amiss and goes on to the floor to get more information, just as Brainy detects that the creature may not be dead. It comes to life just as Spy senses where Lyle may be and it attacks the scientists. Lyle picks up the saw and dispatches the creature. He moves to escape out the airlock, but Gazelle knocks him out.

Ayla promptly gives a round of I Told You Sos. In the operating theater, the creature dissolves. At HQ, Ultra Boy comes in to talk to Garth, cat calls Ayla, who promptly removes his gravity as she stalks out. Garth gets the news that Lyle is arrested, the Legion is grounded. Jo received word that an alien attack cruiser is headed to Rimbor.

Imra meets with her mother, who tells her that they can't meet anymore; Sydne has powerful enemies now that are hostile to the Legion.

In the Lab, Brainy and Garth puzzle over the data from the alien. They travel at sublight speeds but have advanced bio tech, which means they have been travelling for millions of years.

Elsewhere, Cham is moping and is talking to a bird. He changes for to be of the same species and propositions the bird.

At Garths room, the name of the new team is called the United Planets Young Heroes. Imra arrives for some sexy time and they hear that Lyle and Projectra both have been arrested. They also get word that they are allowed to go to Rimbor. Jo bursts in, and Imra will lead that away team.

Commentary

First to acknowledge here is that we have the first guest penciler here in the run in Aaron Lopresti. I have to say that I am a huge fan of his pencils, so much so that I prefer him to Manapaul, but they are both great, so we kind of have a wealth of riches here. Lopresti gives the Threeboot characters a bit of his own spin, but they are definitely recognizable as the Threeboot.

The story here is another fun read, but we start to get signs of overstretching and what seems like a kind of FOMO - the writer wants to play with as many toys as he can. Not necessarily a bad thing with the Legion, but it has to be done well, especially when there is as much plot and dialog going on as we have here. The main thread of infiltrating the autopsy seems to be enough for its own 22 page story, even with the drama around Projectra needing to be solved. Speaking of that, we get a good resolution to the cliffhanger, but then she's locked up off panel! We do get some nice character moments, especially between Garth and Imra (who, oh yeah, are supposed to be in a relationship).

The story just feels a little crowded somehow, with the drama of Imra's mother pulled in for a couple pages, and the schtick of Garth dealing with the overwhelming bureaucracy, which seemed to have been resolved last issue, gets another go round. And then Cham, poor Cham. I say poor Cham because he did nothing this issue other than provide a Shvaughn Erin cameo that at the time would have appealed only to the older fans. Here its interesting for a panel, but he's literally a waste for the rest of the issue. And we have a page of M'Rissey doing something that will be paid off in a later issue, I'm sure.

Circling back to the main plot, the idea of the UP wanting their own controlled super teen force makes sense, and using the kids that Garth chucked out of HQ a few issues ago makes total sense. What doesn't make total sense is Gazelle being part of that team. I'm sure it was some deal of "you'll rot here or be a team member." But I guess we will see that soonish, but having her be so anti-Legion and anti UP earlier made an impression.

Other thoughts:

Nice cliffhanger redirect with the alien man not being dead, but it does not bode well for Projectra, I think. It seems a bit false for Brin to be calling Imra to maybe mind wipe someone when he rightfully raged about it last issue.

Dark Circle is thrown out their by Brainy rather casually.

This Projectra situation is officially a PROBLEM. I'm a little surprised they didn't show the arrest on panel.

Ayla can't seem to make up her mind about whether her brother is a good leader or not. That says, I loved how he just put Jo in his place. Pretty sure they were just a one night hookup.

Page 14 (digital) was well done - great telling of the action with zero words, but a lot happening.

This UPYH team didn't do a bad job, considering. Maybe Garth shouldn't have tossed them.

Cham was a waste this issue. I hope Shooter does a better job with him.

Grade: B. Couldn't find it in my heart to give it a B-


Interested in the Post-Zero Hour Reboot Legion? Check out:

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Fan Fiction: The Legion of Super-Heroes v4.1 (continuing the reboot from issue 126!) on LW or here (external)

Re: Legion of Super Heroes v5 #41
Gaseous Lad #1019268 10/09/22 01:39 PM
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Heads up - I'll be restarting this back up since I'm so close to the finish line.

I've been lazy after getting covid (I tested positive after posting that last review) and I've not touched the threeboot in a month - I should be getting a new issue soon.


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Fan Fiction: The Legion of Super-Heroes v4.1 (continuing the reboot from issue 126!) on LW or here (external)

Legion of Super Heroes v5 #42
Gaseous Lad #1019272 10/09/22 03:04 PM
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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #42

Released May 28, 2008
DC Comics, Color
22 Pages

Enemy Rising Part 3:Fear and Clothing

Jim Shooter - Writer
Francis Manapul - Penciller
Livesay - Inker
Jo Smith - Colorist
Mike Marts - Editor

Synopsis

Lightning Lad rouses Colossal Boy from sleep to go on a mission. He, and most of the Legionnaires, have new uniforms. Several Legionnaires head to Rimbor to help repel the Alien invaders. Once there, Imra breifly takes over Jo to use his ultra vision & she, Jo and Cham fly down to draw the invaders away. Atom Girl, Gim and Star Boy will hit them from behind. Jo ends up taking on multiple invaders and he doesn't switch back to invulnerability fast enough - he's taken out. The aliens are adapting as the Legionnaires press the attack. A dazed Jo puts the moves on Imra as she tries to get him moving again. He kisses her then jumps back into action. He does a much better job with the aliens as Atom Girl and Saturn Girl mostly use blasters against the creatures.

Back on Earth, Lyle is roused from prison and taken home to his family. He and his father appear to come to terms. He tells his mother and father about his latest adventures and Giselle.

On Rimbor, the battle does not go well, until Thom has an interesting idea of creating "air hammers" by making sections of atmosphere above the critters super heavy and slams into them. Meanwhile, Gim bursts out from underground.

At HQ, Brainy and Garth discuss the fact that no one knows who ordered the new uniforms.

On Rimbor, Cham notes one of the aliens firing a beam at some vegetation. He's able to scan the alien and is able to morph into one of them. He quickly shifts into a larger creature and destroys the invader.

Back at HQ, Garth and Brainy discuss the fact that the UP Government hates the legion when Mr. Popoff arrives to ask for a favor. The UP Young Heroes are in trouble on a mission and he wants the Legion to help. But its a ruse. After Garth sends the aid, Popoff sends in the Science Police with a search warrant.

At Rimbor, Jo turns himself into an invulnerable missle and rips through more invaders, finishing the fight. But as they prepare to return home, the local police arrive to arrest Ultra Boy.


Commentary

Overall, this is an okay issue. I feel like the art seems a little more rushed than usual, but that may just be me looking at the new uniforms in the context of the current art. Some of the faces looked a little off as well.

Speaking of the new uniforms, not sure wha the rationale is here for that. I guess Manapul wanted to make his own mark on the book and freshen things up. They are fine, I guess, but I really like Vi's skirt uniform, a design that would move forward into the retroboot (sans guns).

Story-wise, this moves along at a pretty good clip, although I'm starting to tire of these creatures at this point. I feel like we should be at a point where we need to start figuring out ways to beat them, or have a better idea of who sent them. After six issues, it seems like we are kind of on a loop here. That said, I thought Star Boy's solution of the air hammer was wicked cool and pretty original. I also enjoyed the tricky nature of Mr. Popov and am interested in where that is heading.

Another note - I'm really glad that we are getting a bit of reconnection between Lyle and his family. Given the fact that the adults v kids tone was shone via Lyle's story at the outset of this version of the Legion, its good to see that changing.

Also, I'm not enjoying this as much either as it has a lot of Ultra Douche in this issue. I can't stand this version of Jo Nah and his behavior here with Imra shows why. Any time this jerk is given significant dialogue, I knock the score down a bit.

A few other notes:

Who's Suzy Porter? Its on some kind of a souvenier in Gim's quarters.

I really hope Jo gets arrested and thrown in prison for life.

The Napoleon joke between Vi and Gim didn't work at all for me.

Grade - B-. Some good moments scattered around a retread of an issue.


Interested in the Post-Zero Hour Reboot Legion? Check out:

The Reboot Legion Timeline

Fan Fiction: The Legion of Super-Heroes v4.1 (continuing the reboot from issue 126!) on LW or here (external)

Legion of Super Heroes v5 #43
Gaseous Lad #1019324 10/11/22 07:10 PM
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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #43

Released July 2, 2008
DC Comics, Color
24 Pages

Enemy Rising Part 4: The Leader Who Lost the Legion

Jim Shooter - Writer
Francis Manapul - Penciller
Livesay - Inker
Jo Smith - Colorist
Mike Marts - Editor

Synopsis

Star Boy wrecks the Rimborian police craft that is after Ultra Boy. Saturn Girl points out that they are breaking the law. The team convinces her that saving Rimbor should override and lawbreaking, and she caves pretty quickly, wiping out the memories of the Rimborian police.

At HQ in Metropolis, the Science Police execute a search warrant in the HQ and they go through various personal quarters and facilities. They are mainly looking for Brainy.

On the planet Velmar V, the UP Young Heroes are being held hostage by the Ikonns after a mission gone bad. Meanwhile, a Legion team sneaks up. Invisible Kid suggest doing some recon, but the rest of the team wants to take a more direct approach and attacks the Ikonns immediately. Karate Kid, Triplicate Girl and Invisible Kid move to sneak in while Brin and the rest attack, but they encounter a golden orb with four mysterious figures that offer Val and Luornu information about the threat the UP is facing. They go in, leaving Lyle behind, and the sphere vanishes, leaving behind a glowing device.

Back on Rimbor, Ultra Boy leads the team to their portal via sneaky means, and find a wounded Gazelle in the sewers. Cham stretches his arm out to grab some fruit from above, but they are noticed and the SPs descend on the Legion. They dump Gazelle and leave. Gazelle apparently tells the police where they went.

Back at HQ, the SPs ransac Tinya's room and take her comic books, but she gets them back with a quick phase. They rifle through (a naked) Element Lad's room and find interesting plants and animals, and run after one of his pets emits a stench. Brainy appears to cooperate with the SPs, but they find nothing in the computers. M'Rissey appears after the SPs leave and gives Brainy a proposal.

Lightning Lad meets with auditors who tell him that there are tons of unauthorized expenses. We learn the M'Rissey is behind the purchases that included the new uniforms. The Legion is in legal and political trouble, as the team is grounded with most of them on mission.

The battle on Velmar continues, and goes badly without Luornu or Val, with everyone, including Brin, being taken out. On Rimbor, the team emerges from the sewers, but Colossal Boy gets shot. The team rushes to a building for shelter, and Gim seems to be OK thanks to the new uniforms. Cham and Jo reflect the energy bolts and the team heads to the roof.

Saturn Girl calls Garth for extraction while they are under attack, but he gets a call from the Attorney General stating that all Legionnaires are under arrest and the Legion charter is revoked.

Commentary

There definitely seems to be a slow decline in evidence here. This seems to be more of the same that we've been seeing for many issues now, this time a focus more on the team in legal trouble but very little advancement of an over arching plot with the exception that this issue culminates in the cancellation of the Legion and we find out more about M'Rissey. Now we're thrown a totally new group of pirates in the badly named "IKills" and another mystery disappearance of teammembers without any more information around the primary threat after 8 issues. I just feel like we're spinning wheels here when reading this title. There's a lot happening and very little happening at the same time here, with a lot of odd character moments thrown in.

The art was okay. Some panels are extremely well done, but others feel scratchier than normal, so that seems to be slipping as well.

A few other items:

Wow, Imra really caved fast under pressure, didn't she? Just a few issues ago she was raked over the coals for doing this and now she just rolls over.

Ikonns with IKills as the leader? ugh. Who the hell are these guys?

Brin calling Lyle a wuss was... something. Especially after Lyle didn't bat an eye. And Luornu piling on was extra... something. I guess Lyle's just the team punching bag.

I'm not a fan of Luornu's new look.

Jo is wanted for vehicular homicide? Did the Legion not bother to run a background check on their members? I'm kind of interested to learn about something else to hate this version of Jo about.

Grade C+. Its slightly better than so-so.


Interested in the Post-Zero Hour Reboot Legion? Check out:

The Reboot Legion Timeline

Fan Fiction: The Legion of Super-Heroes v4.1 (continuing the reboot from issue 126!) on LW or here (external)

Legion of Super Heroes v5 #44
Gaseous Lad #1019355 10/13/22 07:07 AM
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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #44

Released July 23, 2008
DC Comics, Color
23 Pages

Enemy Rising Part 5: Operational Calculus

Jim Shooter - Writer
Sanford Greene - Penciller
Nathan Massengill - Inker
Jo Smith - Colorist
Mike Marts - Editor

Synopsis

We open with the Legionnaire team, Light Lass, Timber Wolf, Shadow Lass, assorted Peril Men Pirates, and others of the UP Youth team, still held hostage by the IKonns. IKille's woman, Cazhmir, is upset at him leering at the female hostages, especially Ayla. Cazhmir freaks out and IKilles has his men kill her. He proceeds to attempt to rape Ayla when Invisible Kid interrupts.

On Rimbor, the Legionnaire team there (Atom Girl, Saturn Girl, Colossal Boy, Chameleon, Star Boy, Ultra Boy) take refuge as they are being attacked by the Rimbor police after having successfully saved the planet from the alien invaders. They are attempting to arrest Jo for a vehicular homicide incident. After having decided not to return the attack earlier, Imra changes her mind and decides to have the team go on the offensive. Jo rips through a police craft but a female officer starts to fall to her death. Jo saves her, and she tells him she loves him. Star Boy does his thing and Atom Girl infiltrates the flagship, taking out many officers, but eventually is knocked out. Unfortunately the flagship rams into something and starts to crash with Atom Girl inside. At the same time, Imra, Gim and Cham get pinned by debris. Gim can't size up with his legs pinned. They use their flight rings to push the debris off them. Reinforcements arrive and the team decides to retreat home, but the transmatter portal is off.

On Earth, Colonel Pismo is in HQ to shut down the Legion and arrest the Legionnaires. M'Rissey appears, introducing himself as the business affairs manager. He performs a legal stunt that effectively turns the tables on the UP, making the Legion independent and flush with cash due to the services rendered to the state. The Colonel leaves with his tail between his legs and the transmatter service re-enabled. It appears that M'Rissey sold off the marketing rights of the flight rings.

Back on Velmar, Lyle springs a trap that knocks out Ikilles. Ayla, still bound, is able to push back one of her captors as Lyle unties her. She then promptly exacts her revenge and sends the entire gang into the air. The authorities round up the gang as the Legionnaires try to figure out what happened to Karate Kid and Triplicate Girl. Lyle throws Brin's "wimp" comment from last issue back in his face.

The team on Rimbor is joined by an injured Atom Girl and readies for the attack when the transmatter portal reappears. On earth, the president appears and informs them there is a new threat in the solar system.


Commentary

Wow. I have to say that so far, this has been the single hardest issue to get through of the threeboot. The story is all over the place, with a few good moments, but mostly its a mess. What's good - Ayla and Lyle getting their own time for payback, as well as the resolution of the M'Rissey & Legion in legal jeopardy storylines. I always enjoy seeing Atom Girl in action, so that was also a welcome addition. Other than that, I found this issue extremely hard to read from a story perspective AND visually.

Let me start with the art. It's not great. Stanford Greene's style does not fit with the content nor as a fill in for Manapul. That plus Massengil's colors just don't work. A prime example of this is the opening page. I could only tell that was Ayla based on the dialogue; she was colored completely wrong, and it seemed like she had lightning designs on her costume. The art style seemed like it belonged to a lighter "animated series" type of story, so when IKilles attempts to rape Ayla, it was a very dissonant moment. Add to this were moments where I literally did not understand clearly what was going on in the battle at Rimbor.

As to the writing, there was just a lot of strange stuff going on. The situation with Ikilles having his girfriend murdered, then attempting to rape Ayla was uncomfortable at best. The battle on Rimbor was not well told and confusing as to what everyone was doing. And since when is Colossal Boy constrained by his powers if his legs are pinned? And when did flight rings convey Ayla's powers to everyone? And the future cussing? Please make it stop. All the Zork references made me think I was playing an Infocom game. While some overarching storyline elements were finally addressed, it wasn't done well.

A couple other comments:

They are reading their intel about the Legion from an actual textbook? At least there is an Espionage Squad.

I have to admit, I liked Ayla giving the Ikonns their comeuppance and Lyle doing the same to Brin and Tasmia. And isn't Brin supposed to be more resilient? He looks really banged up here.

Grade: D-. Worst issue so far.


Interested in the Post-Zero Hour Reboot Legion? Check out:

The Reboot Legion Timeline

Fan Fiction: The Legion of Super-Heroes v4.1 (continuing the reboot from issue 126!) on LW or here (external)

Re: Legion of Super Heroes v5 #44
Gaseous Lad #1019358 10/13/22 11:17 AM
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Can't disagree with your criticisms (especially about Jo Nah), although I would have given higher grades to these issues. Coming off the JLA vs LSH, I enjoyed the complexity, the multiple plots in each issue - it was chaotic from a story standpoint - but at least it took me a while to read the stories. Everything does seem exaggerated, though: the grandeur of the HQ, the extreme action, M'rissey solving a bunch of problems with super-marketing/accounting and definitely those alien critters remain tiresomely unresolved.

Lyle came off well, though, a nice change from his prior whiny behaviour.

I wondered who Suzy Porter is as well. Maybe a friend of Jim Shooter's? There's an Australian actress named Susie Porter, couldn't find any other reference on line.


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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #45
Gaseous Lad #1019385 10/14/22 10:03 AM
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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #45

Released August 27, 2008
DC Comics, Color
24 Pages

Enemy Manifest Part 1:Monster in our Midst

Jim Shooter - Writer
Francis Manapul - Penciller
Livesay - Inker
Jo Smith - Colorist
Mike Marts - Editor

Synopsis

We pick up immediately from the last panel of issue 44 as the UP President contacts the Legion about a massive planet about the size of Saturn has appeared past Jupiter, which I guess is Saturn's orbit. Hmm. She wants their help and M'Rissey negotiates a full pardon for everything that the Legion has been persecuted with and is granted diplomatic immunity. The away teams return and Garth reassigns members to tasks, rest or diplomacy. Imra angrily rejects her assignment by Garth due to fatigue.

Atom Girl gets out her frustrations from being bested last issue in the gym. Gim checks in and tries to comfort her, but it backfires as he insults her. Brainy, Light Lass and Star Boy head to space command to analyze the situation as an initial tremor hits the planet. Element Lad and Lightning Lad go to meet the president and see a number of kids try out for the Young Heroes. The planetary devastation across the solar system is starting to spread. They discuss military and diplomatic options as a second more powerful tremor hits.

Back at HQ, Ultra Boy tracks down Saturn Girl busy not sleeping in the kitchen. Naturally he accuses Garth of treating her like crap as he hits on her. Another tremor hits and Jo moves to protect Imra. He starts to leave, but she pulls him back.

Brainy, Ayla and Thom work to augment the Tractor network, whatever that is, to stabilize the solar system gravity, but something goes wrong.

Phantom Girl gets Projectra out of jail, and she is typically aloof and condescending. As a riot breaks out outside the UP HQ, Garth signals Jo to help, but his ring is off. Brainy lashes out at Ayla and Thom, blaming them for the failure. They try again and it succeeds. Garth and Jan take care of the Bludgeon Brothers running amok in the plaza. This provides our action for this issue.

With the situation stabilized, a message of peace is detected from the new planet and diplomacy is started. At HQ, Lyle finds Jo and Imra having sex in the closet.


Commentary

Well at least we're back to Manapul's pencils, so I don't have to trash that. The visuals are back to good with the main team back for this issue. The story itself is mainly just a lot of people running around, except for Jo and Imra who are busy bumping into each other in the kitchen pantry as they cheat on their partners. The Legion's legal troubles are waved away almost magically by M'Rissey and magic technology saves the day, with some unnecessary drama as Legionnaires blame each other for failing only to try again and succeed for technobabble reasons. The fight with the Bludgeon Brothers was at least a chance to have Element Lad back in action with his new uniform. And Projectra is still a bitch.

But at the end of the day, the main reason for all this going on, it seems, is to have most of the team out of HQ so that Jo can make his moves on Imra and make both of them out to be horrible people. Seriously, this is about to the level of bad of the Shady/Earth Man affair in the later volume. What I did like was the fact that the Legion is tired and we see the affects of it. The best scene to me in this issue is where Atom Girl is beating her frustrations into a punching bag. It has elements of both classic and reboot Vi which is nice, and then hints of a romance wit Gim - also a nice touch, as we haven't seen a whole lot of either of these characters for much of this volume.

But Shooter full on jumps onto the third rail of Legion relationships here by having Imra cheat on Garth with Jo. Jo is made to be even more horrible than he has already been portrayed in this series (and he was getting slightly less annoying when Shooter took over) by cheating on Shady after saying he doesn't steal girlfriends, and Imra is made to be horrible by not having any empathy for Garth's situation. No one comes out well there, including the writer.

On the other hand, it was nice to see a Night Girl cameo for the tryouts.

Grade - D. You never touch the third rail. Thank god there's only five more left.


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Re: Legion of Super Heroes v5 #45
Fat Cramer #1019386 10/14/22 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Can't disagree with your criticisms (especially about Jo Nah), although I would have given higher grades to these issues. Coming off the JLA vs LSH, I enjoyed the complexity, the multiple plots in each issue - it was chaotic from a story standpoint - but at least it took me a while to read the stories. Everything does seem exaggerated, though: the grandeur of the HQ, the extreme action, M'rissey solving a bunch of problems with super-marketing/accounting and definitely those alien critters remain tiresomely unresolved.

Lyle came off well, though, a nice change from his prior whiny behaviour.

I wondered who Suzy Porter is as well. Maybe a friend of Jim Shooter's? There's an Australian actress named Susie Porter, couldn't find any other reference on line.

Oh the plots are infinitely more complex compared to Bendis. I think it starts to slip for me at 43-44 as the material feels recycled from earlier in the run with the Legion team vs Mysterious Monsters plot. And if I were to go back and revise the earlier LSH v JL books now that they are all out, I'd probably dock them all a grade with the last few being Fs.


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Re: Legion of Super Heroes v5 #45
Gaseous Lad #1019437 10/16/22 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Gaseous Lad
Well at least we're back to Manapul's pencils, so I don't have to trash that. The visuals are back to good with the main team back for this issue.

Yes, much easier on the eyes.

Quote
The Legion's legal troubles are waved away almost magically by M'Rissey and magic technology saves the day, with some unnecessary drama as Legionnaires blame each other for failing only to try again and succeed for technobabble reasons. The fight with the Bludgeon Brothers was at least a chance to have Element Lad back in action with his new uniform. And Projectra is still a bitch.

M'rissey, too good to be true. What's his story? From the future? Android? There isn't room (or time) to solve the Legion's problems with the government more realistically, I suppose. The logical extension of M'rissey's wheeling and dealing leads to a Legion that becomes a marketing tool, bargaining their way out of official conflict.

As for the large planet near Jupiter ... wasn't this done once before, a second moon or something, also solved by Brainy's rapid calculations? That's early Adventure era science and too big a threat too easily solved.

Projectra's bitchiness would strike me as funny, if I didn't know where this was going. So entitled, even after her fall from power and financial security.

Quote
But at the end of the day, the main reason for all this going on, it seems, is to have most of the team out of HQ so that Jo can make his moves on Imra and make both of them out to be horrible people. Seriously, this is about to the level of bad of the Shady/Earth Man affair in the later volume.

Jo's behaviour is consistent, if annoying - but Imra? Imra was exhausted and Garth still tried to send her on another mission, so there was some resentment there, but still - to suddenly find Jo appealing seems out of character. He looks like a real predator in that kitchen scene. Good comparison to the Shady/Earth Man affair: baffling and disappointing.

Quote
What I did like was the fact that the Legion is tired and we see the affects of it. The best scene to me in this issue is where Atom Girl is beating her frustrations into a punching bag. It has elements of both classic and reboot Vi which is nice, and then hints of a romance wit Gim - also a nice touch, as we haven't seen a whole lot of either of these characters for much of this volume.

The battle fatigue was well done, not overplayed, just showing that the Legionnaires do get beat up on missions. The Gim/Salu scene was touching - then Gim had to clumsily say the wrong thing, which was also sad.

I don't think it struck me before but Kin'thea looks like the adult version of Star Boy's girlfriend Zynthia way back in Adventure #282.


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Re: Legion of Super Heroes v5 #45
Fat Cramer #1019441 10/16/22 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
As for the large planet near Jupiter ... wasn't this done once before, a second moon or something, also solved by Brainy's rapid calculations? That's early Adventure era science and too big a threat too easily solved.

The closest I could think was the end of the Terrorform DnA reboot arc, where Ra's is drawing the moon towards the Earth to intentionally cause cataclysm and accellerate evolution. Then, to stabilize the orbits and mitigate the destruction, Legion World is brought in to Earths orbit.


Quote
Jo's behaviour is consistent, if annoying - but Imra? Imra was exhausted and Garth still tried to send her on another mission, so there was some resentment there, but still - to suddenly find Jo appealing seems out of character. He looks like a real predator in that kitchen scene. Good comparison to the Shady/Earth Man affair: baffling and disappointing.

Yeah getting upset with your boyfriend when he's making a lot of stressful decisions (and a lot of them bad) doesn't justify having sex with the Legion douchebag. Jo looks like a predator (who, as far as we're aware is still sleeping with Tasmia), and Imra looks pathetic. So much for a "no means no" message. This kind of thing sends the wrong message to people about consent. Imra said no, repeatedly, but Jo kept pressing. Then she consented. It's a horrible message and I don't know which character comes out worse here. And I've skimmed ahead some, and I don't see any real reasoning for Imra's behavior. But I guess we'll get through this mess to get there at some point.

Quote
The battle fatigue was well done, not overplayed, just showing that the Legionnaires do get beat up on missions. The Gim/Salu scene was touching - then Gim had to clumsily say the wrong thing, which was also sad.

But relatable, at least to me laugh


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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #46
Gaseous Lad #1019447 10/16/22 06:08 PM
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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #46

Released September 24, 2008
DC Comics, Color
22 Pages

Imperiatrix: Enemy Manifest Part 2

Jim Shooter - Writer
Francis Manapul - Penciller
Livesay with McKenna - Inker
Jo Smith - Colorist
Mike Marts - Editor

Synopsis

Bodies scatter as Invisible Kid runs away from Saturn Girl and Ultra Boy, who are trying to cover up their nakedness in the pantry. Jo tells Lyle "its not what you think." He then tells Imra to wipe Lyle's mind. They both decide to come clean with Garth. Meanwhile, Garth and Element Lad are accepting the thanks of the UP President for Brainiac 5's fixing of the solar system crisis. After Garth and Jan leave, Popoff is challenged if the UPYH could have solved the crisis.

At HQ, Lyle gives Garth some bad news that we don't here. Jo tries to confess to Garth, but Garth reads him the riot act for not having his ring active when he was needed. As punishment, Garth puts him on patrol and orders him away before he can confess that he was banging Garth's girlfriend. Phantom Girl visits Projectra, who is grieving her parents, but is buoyed somewhat by the new uniform. They chat a bit, as Tinya tells Jeckie she can't be demanding people to behave for her, and Tinya reads her a comic book.

In Metropolis, Ultra Boy handles multiple rogue UPYH candidates. Brainiac, Star Boy and Light Lass return to HQ and talk to Invisible Kid. Lyle informs Brainy that Cham had unknowingly replicated a key component of the alien invaders during the Rimbor fight. Cham duplicates the weapon with his arm, and Brainy promptly chops it off to analyze it. There is a possible connection between the intruder planet and the aliens.

Garth and M'Rissey chat about Legion business. Sales of merchandise are taking off, Lyle is pardoned, apparently Jo is off the hook for vehicular manslaughter, but Projectra may have a legal problem. Speaking of Projectra, Tinya is getting tired of reading the same comic to her over and over. Timber Wolf visits Projectra, now distraught that she has to be psysche-scanned for her behavior. She goes to clean her face in the bathroom when some Orandan survivors communicate her via the mirror. She is gaining even more powers due to her position, and they want to use that to exact revenge for Orando. They hand her a potion through the mirror that will help with her scan the next day.

Imra confronts Garth and ends up having to confess to what happened between her and Jo. Brainy and Lyle show up just as a tearful Imra runs away from a furious Garth. Distracted, they tell him that the intruder planet is likely to launch a massive attack shortly. Jo arrives and they talk. He admits to what they did, but says nothing happened. But Imra apparently says otherwise. Despite wanting to fry the asshole, Garth acts like a leader and tells Jo he'll be needed in the coming fight, but to stay away from him. Projectra passes her scan easily. Lyle tells Jo he didn't rat him out as Imra cries in the corner.


Commentary

Well. What can I say here? At least the plot moves forward. But it does so over horrible plot elements. Where to begin? The whole bit about he said/she said with Jo and Imra and their takes on things was done well to drag it out through the book, but we end up not really hearing any of it, at least the contentious bit about Imra's perspective. If there is some other perspective over what we saw - namely the implication that Imra may have been puppeting Jo - it needs to be told to the audience, but Imra had just refused to blank out Lyle's mind. Both of these characters have descended into a bad place and taking bedrock characters there is not a great idea. It was one of the worst aspects of the DnA Legion, and its failing here just as predictably. To make matters worse, Shooter is clearly trying to set up a romantic relationship between the UP president and Garth. Then we get to the Brainy and Cham scene. We were told way back in the first ten issues that Cham only mimics the form, not function, of the things he changes into. Therefore, cutting off his hand was a horrible and useless act based on what we know, so it seems to me that Shooter is basically doing things with the characters to make the plot that he wants. Really bad call there. A good scene that had Brin and Projectra starting to connect, but then has a weird moment with her interacting with others via a mirror, which was not quite as weird as Brin using the word 'loo' to describe a toilet. This will definitely be what propels the plot, but Shooter is taking Legionnaires and really turning them into bad, unlikeable characters, even more so that they already were. Now I find this version of Jo Nah completely unsalvageable and I have zero empathy for Imra.

What did I like? I liked the interplay between Tinya and Jeckie; those scenes had some good chemistry, and was a bit touching, even though I suspect more is going on here. M'Rissey asking Garth for a note was funny. Garth being distracted in the scene where Brainy and Lyle breif him about the planet was well done. The Projectra bathroom scene oddly enough reminded me of the latest Matrix movie where most of the cross-world interactions are done via mirrors.

The thing I like the best is that I am just a few more issues from being done with this flailing run!

Grade = D+. FML....

Last edited by Gaseous Lad; 10/16/22 06:08 PM.

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Re: Legion of Super Heroes v5 #46
Gaseous Lad #1019456 10/17/22 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by GL
Jo tells Lyle "its not what you think."

This line had me laughing. Not what you think? Not a lot of optional explanations there.

Quote
Both of these characters have descended into a bad place and taking bedrock characters there is not a great idea. It was one of the worst aspects of the DnA Legion, and its failing here just as predictably. To make matters worse, Shooter is clearly trying to set up a romantic relationship between the UP president and Garth.

Sort of like collapse of the empire. The original Jo-Tinya relationship was the strongest of the classic era, right through 5YL, so it's annoying to disappointing to see his behaviour worsen throughout this series. I find the Garth-Kin'thea attraction more than a bit strange; the galaxy is in a mess and they're putting the moves on each other?

Quote
We were told way back in the first ten issues that Cham only mimics the form, not function, of the things he changes into. Therefore, cutting off his hand was a horrible and useless act based on what we know, so it seems to me that Shooter is basically doing things with the characters to make the plot that he wants. Really bad call there.

It does support the image of Brainy as coldly practical, even heartless. However, there could have been an alternative in which he scans Cham's hand and reproduces the weapon.

Quote
The Projectra bathroom scene oddly enough reminded me of the latest Matrix movie where most of the cross-world interactions are done via mirrors.

I haven't seen that movie. I did like the idea of her supporters/manipulators coming through the mirror for its magical, fairy tale aspect - but in the bathroom?


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Re: Legion of Super Heroes v5 #46
Fat Cramer #1019458 10/17/22 12:25 PM
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My fanwank at the time for Imra and Jo having different ideas about whether or not they cheated is that for Imra, it's the *intent* that counts, even if Jo never got his pants off. For Jo, it didn't get to pants-on-the-floor, ' so it doesn't count. Which might be eye-rolling rationalization, but at least would be in-character for the chucklehead he was under Shooter's pen.

These days I'm less inclined to fanwank and more likely to say that Shooter was hell on wheels as an editor at Marvel, but his writing can be yikes.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
I haven't seen that movie. I did like the idea of her supporters/manipulators coming through the mirror for its magical, fairy tale aspect - but in the bathroom?

Reminds me of that scene from the Spaceballs movie where a communication screen blinks on in the bathroom, above the urinal that President Scroob is using, "I told you never to call me on this wall!" smile

Last edited by Set; 10/17/22 12:30 PM.

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Re: Legion of Super Heroes v5 #46
Set #1019463 10/17/22 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Originally Posted by GL
Jo tells Lyle "its not what you think."

This line had me laughing. Not what you think? Not a lot of optional explanations there.

Right? She's naked and he's putting his pants back on.

Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Sort of like collapse of the empire. The original Jo-Tinya relationship was the strongest of the classic era, right through 5YL, so it's annoying to disappointing to see his behaviour worsen throughout this series. I find the Garth-Kin'thea attraction more than a bit strange; the galaxy is in a mess and they're putting the moves on each other?

Yeah, its as if we've gone all soap opera with little space opera. You gotta have a balance here where there is some soap, but you don't drown in the suds, and that's what's happening here.


Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Originally Posted by GL
The Projectra bathroom scene oddly enough reminded me of the latest Matrix movie where most of the cross-world interactions are done via mirrors.

I haven't seen that movie. I did like the idea of her supporters/manipulators coming through the mirror for its magical, fairy tale aspect - but in the bathroom?

I think that was the thing - The Bathroom? Really? Then again Matrix: Resurrections used a train bathroom mirror...

Originally Posted by Set
Reminds me of that scene from the Spaceballs movie where a communication screen blinks on in the bathroom, above the urinal that President Scroob is using, "I told you never to call me on this wall!" smile

laugh


Originally Posted by Set
My fanwank at the time for Imra and Jo having different ideas about whether or not they cheated is that for Imra, it's the *intent* that counts, even if Jo never got his pants off. For Jo, it didn't get to pants-on-the-floor, ' so it doesn't count. Which might be eye-rolling rationalization, but at least would be in-character for the chucklehead he was under Shooter's pen.

These days I'm less inclined to fanwank and more likely to say that Shooter was hell on wheels as an editor at Marvel, but his writing can be yikes.

I actually found the LW posts about this when it came out originally and it was very well received at the time. Believe it or not, I even chimed in at the time back in 2008! One of my early posts, I guess. smile I said that I liked it at the time, but I had massive problems with the Imra/Jo thing, as I do today, but now I see this as the main, ahem, thrust, of the issue.

In retrospect, what bothers me the most, is that most of the Legionnaires who are having most of the drama happen TO them (versus them having real agency) are the women. This does not age well. At all. And its been less than 20 years.


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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #47
Gaseous Lad #1019503 10/18/22 06:31 PM
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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #47

Released October29, 2008
DC Comics, Color
24 Pages

Dream Wedding, Blind Love

Jim Shooter - Writer
Rick Leonardi - Penciller
Dan Green - Inker
JD Smith - Colorist
Mike Marts - Editor

Synopsis

Brainy is analyzing the alien tool that Cham replicated while Dream Girl hangs out with him in the lab. Turns out the tool is a data ripper, not a gun. Brainy creates a functional version based on the copy and an alien destroyer grows out of it, attacking them both. Brainy zaps it out via a wormhole, and is concerned that Nura is hurt, but of course, it's only a dream.

Brainy goes to Lightning Lad to confer about the intruder planet and recommends an Espionage squad mission. In the rec room, Projectra has Phantom Girl retell the comic book story of the original Brainiac, but changing the ending so that he defeats Superman.

In New Orleans, a disguised Brainy visits a woman named Meander to talk about Dream Girl, but she's already talked to Meander in her own dreams. He asks for advice and she recommends that they go on a date.

Projectra meets with the Orandan survivors and they plot to destroy Dream Girl. Tinya goes to Projectra's room to apologize and discovers that there is an illusion Projectra in the room. She waits to see the real princess return. Tinya goes to Saturn Girl with her concerns, because Garth brushed her off. She recommends to go to Brainy, which she does, but he also brushes her off on his way to a date.

He meets Meander, who allows Dream Girl to possess her body. They have a wonderful evening, but Projectra picks the moment to spring some kind of trap. The next morning, after sex with Meander, Brainy rushes home to fall asleep and propose to Nura in his dream. Inside the dream, they are attacked, apparently by aspects of his personality. He fights off the demons but they apparently blind Nura of sight and foresight, but she accepts his proposal.

Projectra celebrates their success, and one of the demons from Brainy's dream has become real and escapes into the world.


Commentary

I've tended to enjoy the stories in the Threeboot that feature Dream Girl and this is no exception. There were some odd beats in this story, but overall I thought it was an interesting read and wanted to see where it was going. It was by no means perfect, as there were some really odd elements, like Nura possessing Meander so that she can have sex with Brainy. The premise seemed to be a way to jam in the promised marriage of Brainy and Nura that she promised in one of the first few issues of this title, in before the end of the series. Projectra is starting to turn into quite the villain, isn't she? Her little cabal was very nasty there targeting Nura like that. In turn that element was both fun to read as well as rather confusing. What was it that Projectra was doing exactly to unlock these unstable elements of Brainy's psyche? And how did the one become corporeal? And if he could, why can't Nura?

I found everyone brushing off Tinya amusing & a good way to tease out the suspicion about Projectra, especially after Tinya finds out that she was gone.

We have another fill in artist for the issue, and they do a decent job, but aren't up to the usual Manapul standard.

Grade - B-


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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #48
Gaseous Lad #1019517 10/19/22 08:01 PM
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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #48

Released November 26, 2008
DC Comics, Color
22 Pages

The Edge of Doom: Enemy Manifest Part 3

Jim Shooter - Writer
Francis Manapul - Penciller
Livesay - Inker
Nathan Eyring - Colorist
Mike Marts - Editor

Synopsis


As the UP prepares to receive a delegation from the intruder planet, alarms go off in Legion HQ to be on alert. M'Rissey suggests tryouts, and candidates are already arranged and waiting: Turtle, Sizzle, Night Girl and Gazelle. Gazelle is up first and demonstrates her powers. Night Girl is next and she thrashes Ultra Boy as a demonstration, at the cost of falling out of her uniform. Sizzle and Turtle begin a joint demonstration, but are interrupted by the return of Sun Boy, who joins in.

The Legion debates the new candidates, with the exception of Projectra who left when Sun Boy arrived. He leads Terror Firma, who destroyed Orando prior to his tenure. Sun Boy is able to sit in on this discussion. He explains that he couldn't make Terror Firma better and threw all the kids in jail.

The Legion pics Gazelle and Star Boy. The rest are the Legion Reserves. Imra asks Gizelle about her record and her statement of hating the Legion and the UP. It looks like she's changed her mind. Later, Tinya and Imra talk about what's up with Projectra, and they agree to keep an eye on her.

The Minister of State takes the IP aliens on a tour. One of them uses a data gatherer on a stellar display of the 57 UP Worlds. They are shown all the sensitive locations of the UP HQ offices, including Legion HQ. The scan the building with their data rippers, which apparently can also be used to copy people, including their spirit, draining the original body. He used Meander to get close to the delegates on tour and discovered they are just empty shells; avatars of the true people from virtual space, effectively evolved versions of the brute force smashers that originally invaded. They need to fight the invaders on their own turf. In UP plaza, the tour being completed, the alien data gatherers point the ripper at the secretary and she falls dead.

Commentary

As I was writing this, I realized that Shooter basically lifted the premise of this arc from Star Trek The Motion Picture. With the exception that V'Ger comes from Earth originally, its very similar - aliens from outside come in an digitize everything to save it as a study. The "crew" are effectively machine avatars like Lt. Ilia from the film. We will see if it ends anywhere close to that.

Okay, now with that out of the way, the issue wasn't too bad, but it was an odd time to do a Legion Tryout. Shooter seems to continue his weird treatment of women by having Lydda fall out of her costume and have that repeatedly referenced. That being said, it was great to have her kick Jo's ass all over the place and to FINALLY have someone acknowledge the powerhouse that could be if she teamed up with Shadow Lass. Still, I found the Legion's reasoning a bit flawed around Lydda's powers. I guess their reasoning is that if ANY light turns on, she is done, but whatever. It was good of them to create the reserves.

But I really enjoyed Jo getting his ass kicked.

Lots of little bits that were good here as well. Ayla & Brainy trading barbs (even as infantile as it was), Lyle's shyness, the subtle fist slam of Projectra when Dirk walks in the room. I did have a bit of a problem with Terror Firma getting just waved away to jail over the course of a couple panels. Surely that deserved an issue given the amount of trouble and damage they caused? I mean TERROR is literally in their brand name! What did anyone expect? That whole thing was poorly handled.

But I really enjoyed Jo getting his ass kicked.

Grade: B-. I really enjoyed Jo getting his ass kicked.


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Re: Legion of Super Heroes v5 #48
Gaseous Lad #1019553 10/21/22 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by GL
There were some odd beats in this story, but overall I thought it was an interesting read and wanted to see where it was going. It was by no means perfect, as there were some really odd elements, like Nura possessing Meander so that she can have sex with Brainy.

I'm sure this struck me as peculiar at the time, but since then there have been movies, books and discussions about falling in love or having sex with a digital creation. I did like Meander as a comedic character, someone from a screwball comedy, and the more cartoonish art suited this storyline.

Quote
Projectra is starting to turn into quite the villain, isn't she? Her little cabal was very nasty there targeting Nura like that. In turn that element was both fun to read as well as rather confusing. What was it that Projectra was doing exactly to unlock these unstable elements of Brainy's psyche? And how did the one become corporeal? And if he could, why can't Nura?

It was a bit confusing. The idea of Brainy having demons that look like something out of a medieval painting made me wonder if they were from his mind, or Projectra's.

Quote
As I was writing this, I realized that Shooter basically lifted the premise of this arc from Star Trek The Motion Picture.

Interesting, I didn't remember that connection. Garth wasn't the only one who had trouble grasping the concept.

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Okay, now with that out of the way, the issue wasn't too bad, but it was an odd time to do a Legion Tryout.

Similar to the previous issue, a mix of light comedy and a dangerous villain story. The Lydda costume failure jokes seemed a bit juvenile.

Quote
I did have a bit of a problem with Terror Firma getting just waved away to jail over the course of a couple panels. Surely that deserved an issue given the amount of trouble and damage they caused?

Agreed, and Projectra, regardless of her secret psycho behaviour, was justified in leaving the room. If the series had continued, the Terror Firma kids might have been shown to still be under the influence of what's-his-name.

The U.P. government is incredibly naive to welcome the IP delegates with open arms. It was still a bit of a surprise that they killed the Secretary. I figured her for an unacknowledged Amazon, and was sorry to see her go.

I liked the voting records; it's been done before and it's always a game to look for a pattern or some reveal in how different members vote. Timber Wolf voted no, Phantom Girl and Chameleon voted yes to everyone. Does it mean anything? I doubt it.


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Re: Legion of Super Heroes v5 #48
Fat Cramer #1019572 10/22/22 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Fat Cramer
Originally Posted by GL
There were some odd beats in this story, but overall I thought it was an interesting read and wanted to see where it was going. It was by no means perfect, as there were some really odd elements, like Nura possessing Meander so that she can have sex with Brainy.

I'm sure this struck me as peculiar at the time, but since then there have been movies, books and discussions about falling in love or having sex with a digital creation. I did like Meander as a comedic character, someone from a screwball comedy, and the more cartoonish art suited this storyline.

Yeah, that's why I could buy it. And I think it was fine if they were going on a teenage date. It just got weird for me on the morning after scene. The situation plus the more cartoony style, plus Brainy never really acting romantically prior to this story just made this element a bit off. If the art were better, I may have been fine with that.

Quote
As I was writing this, I realized that Shooter basically lifted the premise of this arc from Star Trek The Motion Picture.

Quote
Interesting, I didn't remember that connection. Garth wasn't the only one who had trouble grasping the concept.

I don't think its a direct one, but in ST TMP, you have V'Ger - this massive ship coming to Earth from outside space, digitizing everything in its path. It had avatars (Ilia) that it used to interact with the Enterprise crew. Of course, Trek never had V'Ger creating a bunch of alien invader destroyers, so that's definitely different. Of course at this point, we don't know what the purpose is of the Intruder Planet.

Quote
Similar to the previous issue, a mix of light comedy and a dangerous villain story. The Lydda costume failure jokes seemed a bit juvenile.

100% Shooter really seems to understand juvenile.

Quote
If the series had continued, the Terror Firma kids might have been shown to still be under the influence of what's-his-name.

Who? wink

Quote
The U.P. government is incredibly naive to welcome the IP delegates with open arms. It was still a bit of a surprise that they killed the Secretary. I figured her for an unacknowledged Amazon, and was sorry to see her go.

I'm glad you pointed this out too. The UP folks have horrible OpSec showing complete, possibly dangerous, strangers some of the most security sensitive locations of their government.

Quote
I liked the voting records; it's been done before and it's always a game to look for a pattern or some reveal in how different members vote. Timber Wolf voted no, Phantom Girl and Chameleon voted yes to everyone. Does it mean anything? I doubt it.

I don't think it does either, but I also enjoy seeing these when they are shown. smile


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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #49
Gaseous Lad #1019573 10/22/22 09:58 AM
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Legion of Super Heroes v5 #49

Released December 31, 2008
DC Comics, Color
23 Pages

One Evil - Enemy Manifest Part 4

Jim Shooter - Writer
Francis Manapul - Penciller
Livesay - Inker
Jo Smith - Colorist
Mike Marts - Editor

Synopsis

In a hidden fortress deep in the depths of ancient Metropolis, Projectra/Imperiatrix trains in hand to hand combat. She mentally triggers her trainer to attack her, and she easily dispatches him. At Legion HQ, Saturn Girl and Phantom Girl share a meal and talk about what to do about Projectra. Timber Wolf overhears and threatens them to stay away from her. As he stalks away, Tinya suggests that they tell Lightning Lad. Imra resists, saying that they may need Brin for the upcoming conflict. Then she whines about her cheating. Lightning Lad and Invisible Kid confer about strategy around the invaders. Brainy tests out his Data Ripper by scanning a sandwich that Sizzle promptly eats. Brainy plans to go to the Intruder Planet for an espionage mission.

Elsewhere in HQ, Element Lad brings his new girlfriend, Honey, to talk to Ultra Boy, who is moping on the roof about Imra. He says that he never touched her (clearly a lie). Then out of the blue he gets flowers from Norima. The Espionage Squad, of Colossal Boy, Brainy, Sizzle and Sun Boy, with Atom Girl staying behind to man the transmatter portal. They emerge into space just outside the planet. Sizzle gets them through the planet's force field and they enter the atmosphere, discovering below the clouds a metal sphere of a vessel. Sun Boy melts an entrance in and the team discovers a Destroyer assembly line. Gim starts gathering data via the ripper and Sizzle takes out some of the assembly line. They leave and Gim scans the entire world from above.

Upon return, Brainy is read the riot act by Garth for doing this without authorization. UP President Kinthea arrives and picks up Garth. In the limo they confer about the invaders and how to stop them. Garth suggests that they preserve the minister's body. They commiserate about the loneliness of leadership and get physically closer, Kinthea taking Garth's hand.

Back at HQ Tinya runs into Projectra, who demands Tinya read her the comic book again. She refuses as she is tired, triggering Projectra and attacking Tinya, who goes intangible and avoids the attack. Projectra then mentally triggers Tinya into a rage. She turns tangible and attacks Projectra, who in turn claws Tinya's face off. Brin, who has been following silently, activates Tinya's emergency beacon and continues following. The Legionnaires, minus Projectra, Brin and Garth, gather at Tinya's bedside. Later Imra sits vigil at the bedside alone when she takes a quick peek into Tinya's mind just as Projectra arrives. Projectra tells Imra of her plan of revenge against the UP. She also sent Brin away somehow. Projectra takes over Imra's mind and changes her memory to forget they had this encounter.

The next morning, Tinya seems to be recovering, but claims she fell. Garth orders Imra to probe Tinya's mind, but sees the same memory. Garth and Imra confer and inevitably start talking about the Ultra Boy situation. Imra gives a non-answer about whether Jo touched her. Imra asks who Garth has been with. Kinthea calls with an urgent message - the attack has begun.

Commentary

Another decent issue. The use of Projectra/Imperiatrix as the villain, and a cruel one at that, really powers this story along contrasted to the soap opera drek that does the exact opposite. Shooter was definitely tacking to a haughty persona that punches down on those below her (literally and figuratively) but she's closing in on Emerald Empress territory here. Her dispatching a teacher is one thing, but then brutally attacking someone who treated you as a friend then mind controlling at least two others is pretty sinister. And its unclear to me if Projectra referring to sending Brin away was from the prior issue (after which time, he's been stalking her) or if it happened after the attack on Tinya. Its unclear to me as I would have hoped that Brin would have done something a little more active after the attack on Tinya, although his actions do save her life. Either way, its not good. The one thing I'm not very comfortable about with Projectra is that she seems to be WAY overpowered. Almost to the point of being able to best the entire Legion (and that's probably where that storyline would have headed). Its a HUGE power upgrade and I'm having a hard time reconciling the fact that she would have bested Imra.

The Projectra story is much more compelling than the Invater Planet/VGer story. The use of an espionage squad with exactly no espionage talents was an interesting take, but I think don't think the squad should have been named as such. No Salu, Cham or Lyle. There is some interesting content in here, although it reminded me of the Geonosis factory in Star Wars Ep 2, but I wasn't clear on what the point was of scanning the planet only to have it pointed out that it didn't work.

So let's steer to what didn't work, and that was all the soapy crap. Ultra Mope Jo is dragging around uncharacteristically reflective about his actions with Imra when someone sends him flowers. It seems that the only reason for this scene was to point out that the kids drop romantic partners often. I guess that makes things "realistic" from a teenage perspective, but the reality is that we as readers want to see some consistency. The scenes with Garth and Kinthea are uncomfortable at best - she definitely looks like the older retroboot Imra (which was out on the market at the time) while he is still technically underage. The conversation that they are having about the isolation of leadership is actually compelling until you think about it from that perspective. That said, Imra has no right to be asking Garth about who he was with at that point. Speaking of Garth/Imra/Jo, this whole wishy-washy did they/didn't they is all BS. We have the reciepts of them holding each other naked, or at least down to the skivvies with Imra topless, so when we see phrases like "I didn't touch her" it makes me want to scream. Shooter is horrible at writing relationships, especially a manipulative jock predator. At least this is basically done with.

The art in this issue is FANTASTIC. This is the A-team in this era of the Threeboot and it really shows that they work well with each other. All the characters are drawn, inked and colored expertly, and the action visually flows very well. Easily the best part of the book.

A few other stand out thoughts:

The "what big ears you have" comment from Imra to Brin was good.

The use of Lyle in the room with Garth to provide a backstory page, then pivot to the broken relationship with Imra was actually well done from a storytelling perspective, I thought.

Salu's reaction to Sizzle being shorter was also good, But that's a quick use of a reservist. May as well have her be full time.

Too bad about Jan and Luornu. Worse that we never saw that on screen, as I kind of liked that relationship. Youd think philosophical differences would have popped up earlier, or that we would at least see the end of the relationship since we saw the beginning.

Sorry about your feelings, Jo. On the other hand, no. Go f*** yourself.

Court martial? That's only if you're in the military Brainy. I think you'd just get kicked out of the Legion.

Grade: B-. The minus is for the horrible soap we are forced to endure.


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Re: Legion of Super Heroes v5 #49
Gaseous Lad #1019590 10/23/22 05:32 AM
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I agree about Projectra...she very quickly became very powerful and I don't love that it's in a way that kinda bypasses her classic illusion-casting power.

I much prefer Jeckie's transformation to Sensor Girl where her senses being expanded was still thematically linked to her original powerset in the way it was described.

Also, it feels wrong for Projectra to be that much better a HTH fighter than Phantom Girl. I get Tinya was enraged and we saw that Jeckie was getting training, but it's still a big leap imo

Re: Legion of Super Heroes v5 #49
razsolo #1019592 10/23/22 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by razsolo
I agree about Projectra...she very quickly became very powerful and I don't love that it's in a way that kinda bypasses her classic illusion-casting power.

I much prefer Jeckie's transformation to Sensor Girl where her senses being expanded was still thematically linked to her original powerset in the way it was described.

Also, it feels wrong for Projectra to be that much better a HTH fighter than Phantom Girl. I get Tinya was enraged and we saw that Jeckie was getting training, but it's still a big leap imo

It felt vaguely like she was in part either possessed by or at least strongly influenced by the minds of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of dead Orandos from the recent Terror Firma attack on her planet, which gave her a mental strength all out of proportion to her own will (and also explaining her rage issues, as the dead people were angry and vengeful).

But that could be my brain attempting to make sense out of what, at the time, didn't make much sense, which is NOT something a reader should have to do. The writer should be on top of that. smirk


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