Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes How do you rate the Great Darkness Saga?

I don't expect to see a huge variation on this one, but I'm curious to see if there are any outliers.

I definitely place it among the very best, but I don't think I can be impartial enough to decide if it's the best one... it was the very first Legion story I ever read, so to me the Legion is automatically viewed through that lens.

Does anyone think it's overrated? Does anyone not like it? Or if you do like it, is there a particolar moment that doesn't sit right with you?

For example I don't think the Chameleon Boy subplot is integrated well with the rest of the story, and I never really liked how the kid basically ends up being both Highfather and Orion, with the former being the one responsible for having Superboy and Supergirl keep their powers under a red sun... it's a bit of a deus ex machina, and it could've been accomplished by something the Legionnaires come up with.

How do you rate the Great Darkness Saga? single choice
	It's THE best Legion story. Period.
	It's among the very best.
	I like it but I think it's overrated.
	I have no strong opinions about it.
	I don't like it.
	Worst. Legion. Ever.
Votes accepted starting: 05/28/22 02:01 AM
View Results

I don't like it. The story starts out promisingly enough, but soon degenerates into one tedious fight after another against the Servants. And just when it looks like it might get good again, the Sorcerors Planet sequence falls flat -- we're not even SHOWN key events. Then, the plot pivot about the Daxamites just makes it all fall apart -- bigness for the sake of bigness, regardless of whether or not it benefits the story. By the time the Kirby Fourth World Mythology is clumsily shoehorned in with little or no backstory, I have to consider this story a dead loss. And also, Giffen's art is a bland imitation of the Byrne/Perez style that was so trendy at the time, and Mahlstedt's inking makes it even worse, failing to provide even the faintest illusion of depth or solidity.

I did not care for the whole end bit with the New Genesian child or whatever, since that felt sort of like an asspull. (In a Legion story arc, I want the *Legion* to be the ones who win the day, not a miracle baby I've never heard of and will never see again.)

But other than that, I really liked most of the rest of it, and while my all-time favorite story is the Universo Project, and perhaps the LSV takeover of Orando after that, Great Darkness Saga is definitely near the top of the heap for Legion story arcs, for me.

It certainly had a lasting effect on comics, since Darkseid was kind of gone and forgotten for ages, until GDS drug him out of mothballs and revitalized his image, and he's since become the go-to 'final uberboss' showing up in various League stories, both on the page and the screen. Every time I see Darkseid touted as the biggest of big bads against the Justice League, I feel like 'the Legion did this better.'

I do like it, but I also think it's overrated. That is, it's a great story, but I also think it gets more praise than what it deserves. Not that is is not good, but it's not "that" good.

I have to say, I would place it among the very best - but I chose it being overrated because I feel some fans give it more credit than it deserves.

Highfather as baby, indeed, felt a bit like an asspull. It felt like: oh gosh, we made Darkseid too powerful, so we need a small deus ex machina. One thing that saves it though, is that the Legion and allies play very key and active roles: first, Nura and Mysa help summon the baby; second, they protect the baby until it is ready; third, they do hold off Darkseid and his Servants and the invading Daxamites long enough to make a difference. So they aren't just bystanders at least.

The Daxamite slaves were a bit... well, let's say that we saw them run riot around the UP, and apparently the Subs / Wanderers / Heroes of Lallor / Dev-Em were able to stall them long enough at Weber's World. Got it. A bit of suspension of disbelief there, but what can you do against the whole populace of Daxam.

Stuff I did like:


1) The unfolding mystery around who the big bad was, and around the Servants, was nicely done

2) Dream Girl got to show off some leadership

3) Every Legionnaire and then some got something to do, even Chameleon Boy (while incarcerated no less) and returning Legionnaires like Lu, Chuck, Jeckie, Val and Supergirl - and even the allies like the Wanderers and the Subs.

4) the enslavement of Daxam, being Darkseid's own downfall in the end

So in the end, I did love it and think it's great, I just think some others praise it too much

A very apt, and very amusing, way to put it.


I'm curious, what did you think of the Giffen/Mahlstedt art on GDS?


The George Perez/Gerry Conway/Dick Dillin JLA-JSA-New Gods team up predated GDS by a couple years. I don't think it's perfect, but I think it's at least as good as GDS, maybe better.


Agreed. And what especially bothers me is that Levitz/Giffen treated this whole Daxamite slaves thing like an afterthought -- zero follow-through. I know it's not part of GDS proper, but it's still annoying. Especially since there was story potential for a rise in anti-Daxamite prejudice across the galaxy (ironically enough, the Postboot Daxamites would be reimagined as xenophobes.) It would have been interesting to see how all this affected Mon-El (perhaps it contributed to his eventual breakdown, even though Levitz never made the connection explicit?) Not to mention the guilt felt by the Daxamites for all the destruction they caused.

I enjoyed it and thought the way it built the tension was very well done. I don't think its the best story ever but still one of the best.

The child is only Highfather. Darkseid's last Servant of Darkness was a distorted clone of Orion who Highfather "restored" to his normal form. The rest of your point still stands although its not as bad as in some stories where the solution is something never mentioned at all. At least here we had the child appear in the middle (part 3 of 5) and knew he would somehow be part of the solution.

Also although Highfather's actions are tremendous and make it possible for Darkseid to be beaten, it is still the Legion that does the actual fighting, win the victory and who he blames for his defeat. At least that is how it feels to me.

The most annoying thing for me was the confusion over what happened to Daxam in the end. Darkseid swaps the planets moving Daxam with all its people to orbit a yellow sun and then has them reshape their planet in his image. Later Highfather through Mysa swaps them back but only the people, not the planets (see #294 page 22). So all the legionnaires, Darkseid and his servants, and any Daxamites present are now on Apokolips orbiting Daxam's old red sun. The rest of the battle fits with this with Darkseid and the restored Orion battling in a firepit and Superboy and Supergirl able to fight under the red sun thanks to Highfather. But then the final blow is the freed Daxamites flying towards Darkseid - but wait, wouldn't they lose their powers again under the red sun? It is still a collapse of his plan because they are no longer under his power (and presumably will be able to resist him now that they are prepared) and Darkseid can no longer use them to conquer the universe, but not a threat of personal attack. Then in following issues we see the Daxamites repairing their world while being carefully watched by UP fleets. But isn't their world still under Apokolips' yellow sun so they are all uber-powered? Yet that is not how they are portrayed moving forward. It's not really that terrible a plot mixup but it always bothered me.

good work pointing out the Daxam confusion, stile. Indeed, why would Darkseid have been scared then, when all the Daxamites charging towards hmi would have been depowered...


yeah, an odd one there. I think the most we saw, was the Legion helping terraform the planet (cannot even remember which now, I remember Daxam and Apokolips being switched so Daxam orbited a yellow sun I think, but no clue what happened...). and of course Ol-Vir.

I was speaking metaphorically: the child is "practically" both Highfather and Orion in the sense that while he's technically only Highfather, in practice the moment he really turns into Highfather is the moment Orion also shows up in his original form.


That's true, and Supergirl's final assault in particular is very satisfying, but to me Highfather's role in taking down Darkside is still oversized. I'd be fine with it if he either swapped the planets or boosted the Kryptonians, but doing both is a bit much.

It doesn't help that to me Highfather is the most boring character from New Genesis, which is quite an accomplishment considering the competition. Think about it: other than the characters that are more connected to Apokolips (Orion, Mr Miracle...) and those who are always somewhere else doing their own thing (Metron, Black Racer...) is there actually a character from New Genesis that is interesting on his own?
Off-topic from my own thread, I know, but food for thought :-)

Ibby, I'd forgotten about Ol-Vir. Probably because I've always found him extremely annoying, and not in a "love to hate him" way. But thanks for the heads-up.

C_A, I agree most of the New Genesis characters are dull. I personally dislike all of the Forever People far more than Highfather, because they're not just boring but also obnoxious. Jack Kirby may have genuinely empathized with the younger generation, but however noble his intentions were, it just didn't come through in the actual stories. In my opinion.

The lower-powered heroes fighting off the Daxamites was really the biggest problem for me....anyone who has read any of my fic knows I love me some underdogs with kooky powers but it was just too much suspension of disbelief that characters like Duo Damsel, Bouncing Boy and Stone Boy weren't immediately getting slaughtered going up against a world of Superman-level opponents. It didn't ruin the story for me, but I do think the creators should have put some more thought into that part of it.

Cham's encounter with Ol-Vir was a much better example to me of how to write someone way out of their depth surviving a much more powerful but also way less experienced opponent...it was clear that Cham was lucky to even survive and even then all he could do was really evade Ol-Vir rather than try to confront him in any way.

The reboot handled the idea of rogue Daxamites much more intelligently with all the White Triangle stuff, I think...there were only really a small number of them, and even then they caused immense amounts of damage and most of the Legion were visibly way overpowered and forced to use their wits to survive.

Agreed 100 percent with all of what Raz says here.

Agree with a lot of what was said -

Highfather is indeed quite dull, as are the Forever People

Ol-Vir was an annoying brat

And the Reboot White Triangle story indeed handled a Daxamite attack better and more realistically. Also having the four Daxamites attacking Earth purposely toy with everyone so they would suffer and die slowly, helped explain why the Legionnaires managed to survive, well, mostly.

Late to the game here - Not much to add from everyone's great comments so far.

There was a lot of great characterization here across the board, which is what people remember the most, I think. There are a lot of planet sized plot issues, namely the population of controlled Daxamites, that plague this story.

But I think why GDS is so beloved is that it marked a turning point in the Legion. It showed that you could create intelligent superhero/scifi multi-issue arcs that were pretty epic in scope. The last big story like this was Earthwar, but GDS hits the 'Epic' mark solely due to the incorporation of the fourth world elements, tying the Legion to the cosmic DCU in a significant way.

I think several stories, even in Levitz's ruin, are better than this, but it holds the place it does in fandom for what it represents about the Legion,

I do agree re historical significance - I struggle to think of a Legion story before GDS that reached this high. And indeed, it has one of the big hallmarks of great stories that I like - everyone got something to do, there was a big sense of scale.

I considered voting "among the best", but I just can't override how that run of issues is exactly where I started reading LSH as an 11 or 12 year-old and how GDS was teased in my first issue with the prologue in 287. Every time I read it, I love it all over again. As epic as everything is, I think it's that the characters are so alive and not overlooked amid all the chaos. Plus, one of my favorite comics moments of all time is when Kara and Kal team up to give ol' Darkseid all they have. My Deluxe GDS hardcover is my most prized possession in my comics collection because of all this and more.

So I'm shamelessly and unabashedly giving it the highest rating in this poll. I honestly don't think I'd be the Legion fan I am if I came in to the fold at any other time. Whatever flaws it may have, I'm admittedly pretty blind to them because of my personal connection to those issues and the ones around them.

I went with "among the best." GDS is flawed in certain ways, but it made it exciting to be a Legion fan at the time. GDS came after several years of mediocre stories and artwork, and it not only restored the grandeur and complexity of the Adventure era and the Cockrum/Grell period but took them to a new level. GDS was part science fiction, part mystery, part super-hero, and part character drama. It weaved all of these genres together as well as the various subplots.

For me, the weakest part was the Izaya revelation and climax. I suppose if you're going to have Darkseid you should work in his ancient enemy just to keep it mythical. But it felt like the Legion had become supporting characters in someone else's epic.

Even so, nobody died (the usual cheap way of making a story "epic"). However, Light Lass did break up with Brin and resign, so there was a hint that change was coming.

GDS was one of those stories that no matter your knowledge of the Legion it swept the reader along and they wouldn't resist. As HWW says, it incorporates so much - mystery, drama, character growth, excitement and the whole scale of it was awesome! Also, the art is really clean and clear and captured that scale incredibly well. Thank goodness Giffen illustrated it at this point of his artistic evolution as had it been drawn in his later murkier style of just a few years later it would be an entirely different beast.

I first read it after reading about 10 or 12 issues of the 5YL, so while I kind of knew some of the characters it was a tremendous (and very pleasant) surprise.I think it's what really opened my eyes to the potential of the team.

There are flaws though I'm not going to count the Daxamite invasion as one of them though as that was addressed afterwards enough to my mind that we were aware there was an ongoing issue - repeated references to terraforming Daxam back to a viable state and Mon El wondering how the SPs would have treated his people if they had been willing servants of Daarkseid. There was IMO enough information for us to realise that the invasion had lasting effects. Ol Vr was perhaps the worst of these, though it made sense that even on a planet usually seen as stable as Daxam, there was at least on total psychpath that agreed with the dark lords vision. I suppose, had more been done afterwards to show the wreckage that the Daxamites left behind there would be fans now complaining that Levitz was just mining his own stories rather than crafting new ones. It's a balance really and it worked for me.

While there may be single issues that I rate higher, as a multi-part story it represents to me exactly how good the Legion can be.

I reiterate my opinion that the art was bland and flat, and that a lot of it had to do with bad inking from Larry Mahlstedt. I think if Giffen's previous Legion inker, Bruce Patterson, had been retained at least long enough to work on GDS, I would have found the art at least adequate. But such was not the case. The only post-GDS issue with Giffen art that I like is #305, the Imsk issue, because that one was guest-inked by the talented veteran Kurt Shaffenberger. Comics are both a literary and a visual medium, and I stand by my conviction that whatever the strengths of Levitz's story which have been pointed out in previous posts, GDS came up short on the art.

I really like it.

So, the more I think about it, if the art had been more to my liking I would probably vote "I Like It But I Think It's Overrated." To elaborate on my previous post, I like the Giffen/Patterson art work in LSH #287-289 and in LSH Annual 1; it's not my favorite Legion art, but it gets the job done and then some; I also, as I mentioned in that post, liked LSH #305 drawn by Giffen/Shaffenberger (two issues after that, Giffen changed his style in the opening installment of Omen/Prophet.) In the end, my mild hostility towards GDS comes down mostly to my profound dissatisfaction with Larry Mahlstedt's inks.

But there's another bit of context that I think is important: the first time I read GDS, I was 22 years old and growing increasingly disenchanted with comic books. In addition, most of what little else I had read of the Legion failed to impress me. I found 5YL off-putting, and I couldn't yet appreciate the Postboot (that wouldn't happen until after I joined Legion World.) I liked the work of Legion artists such as Dave Cockrum, Steve Lightle, Greg LaRocque, Curt Swan, and (for one issue only) Eduardo Barreto. And, again, it took my interaction with Legion Worlders to fully appreciate the Legion mythos. Yet I remain underwhelmed by certain Legion milestones, and GDS is one of them. That's just my opinion.

I really like it.

I definitely preferred the GDS Giffen over the 5YL/Late v3 blocky style.

Ditto I quite liked the GDS art overall. I did find some of the lines on characters’ faces a bit odd though.

Yep - that said, Giffen isn't even my favorite Legion artist. Like, by a wide mile.

In fact, knowing what I know now, with all the various "Legion Hall of Fames" and "Legion Mount Rushmore" discussions I've seen online and in podcasts, I'd not vote to have Giffen on either.

The GDS grew across a number of issues before becoming the central story, from Mon El & Shady's discovery of a certain rocky planet through the servants searching around the galaxy. It was Levitz becoming comfortable with his multiple ongoing plotlines weaving through the book.

We didn't just get the GDS, we got the leadership contest, which worked really well, along with the main story, to bring Nura to the fore. We had the fallout of Cham's mission to Khundia, and relationship with Brande, which resulted in him being present Ol-Vir attacked Takron Galtos. There were tensions in the group involving Brin, Ayla and Imra that would have a lasting impact. Lightning Lad was unable to continuie his leadership due to mental health issues.

The core story played up the power of the villain by showing just how much more powerful he was than the Legion's previous big foes. While this could be seen as dimishing them, had they been left as they were, Levitz would later relaunch each of them from events here. We would also have the curse that while not going teh way it was initially intended, certainly worked on readers' minds over the following months.

The story allowed Giffen to show off the worlds in which the Leigon operated, as they investigated the disaperance of artefacts. He would go form strength to strength on the book from here, creating one of DCs best selling partnerships, along with Wolfman& Perez on TItans.

The reveal of the mockeries was played out really well across issues, with one of them becoming key in the confrontation agianst the villain himself.

There hadn't been many cosmic epics ranging across severall issues before this time. ales of teh Green Lantern Corps mini was in 1980. To have one, while still keeping a faithful distance from Kirby's works was another really strong point. The Return ofthe New Gods folded in 1978, but they were part of the super Justice League 183-185 in 1981. So they weren;t forgotten characters, but the creators would have only been too aware of doing justice to Kirby's work. The plotting here would influence later tales such as Crisis - the early plot revolving around artefacts, the scenes of Supergirl/ Superman against the Monitor and the, ahem, legion of characters against a single foe at the finale.

I've never been a fan of miracle babies groiwng to adults in plots. I think I first saw it in V. I didn;t like it there, and probably thought the GDS had taken it form there, before finding out the date order. But it didn;t get any better in Crisis, The Titans, certainly not the Avengers or anywhere else. At least here, it was as the result of the ritual on the Sorcerer's Planet. But even so...

The stakes rise, from missing artefacts to the switching of worlds, the rise of dark gods and the advance of a population of supermen. But the heroes don't defeat Darkseid. It is Darkseid's realisation that the level of power he now has is not as it once was. He stops himself, and departs. There's more going through this tale than a siimple slug fest.

Looking at the voting options... it's not what I consider to be the best legion story ever. I don't even think it's the best story in the Levitz/GIffen run, although it has a fantastic scope. But while it may make an easy entry in some fandom lists, there really is a lot in there to unpick, to argue agianst it being overrated.
So, I'm in the "It's among the very best" category.

Great thoughtful review Thoth, with several new points to consider (new to me at any rate). I had never considered that this plot might have influenced Crisis but now I have I can see your point.

Yeah, there are some good perspectives that I never thought of either, thanks thoth

With DC pumping out ever-escalating multiversal hot messes every couple of years now it's kind of easy to take for granted that at one point the GDS would actually have been of really epic scope both with how it built up narratively and with the power levels and masses of characters involved

There were some "Great" (heh) things in the *Great* Darkness Saga in terms of character development, involving a large cast of the Legion and other characters, epic scope, and excellent pacing, including a proper and well-executed build-up of an ominous threat. The final climax was also given the proper amount of story space and was fairly satisfying. (all of which are rare in comics these days, sadly)

HOWEVER, it will never be may favorite Legion arc, simply because it relies too heavily on the reader being familiar with the New Gods. ("WTF is a Mother-box", one might otherwise wonder?)

I ended up voting with what appears to be the plurality so far ("among the best"), but give me the Earthwar saga any day.

I don't know if that's true, the GDS was the very first time I ever read anything even remotely connected to the New Gods but it definitely didn't ruin my enjoyment of it.
Heck it was my first exposure to the Legion and to anything related to the Superman mythos that you couldn't get from pop culture osmosis in the early 90s (we didn't get the GDS immediately in Italy), but I didn't feel lost in the slightest.
It does a good enough job at telling you that Darkseid is A Very Very Big Deal Villain, that his tech/powers is dangerous even by Legion standards, and the relationship with Orion and Highfather is pretty straightforward.


A device that Darkseid has that's very advanced and very dangerous. That's all you really need to know for the story to make sense, isn't it? You don't even really need to tackle the idea that it's alive in some sense, but if you do, a single narration box can tell you that.
Let's be honest, the basic Fourth World concepts are not that hard to summarize in a couple of panels.

By the way, my retrospective should reach the Great Darkness Saga in a couple of months or so. After the Conway/Thomas era which was kind of a slog to get through, it should be fun!
I'll eventually post the links.

I think I'm with CA, I am pretty sure I maybe vaguely knew of Darkseid being a DC bad guy when I read GDS, but I definitely didn't know anything about Highfather or any of the rest of the New Gods mythos....I think if you assume Levitz made them all up on the spot it works just as well as a story, I didn't feel lost at any point.

I think also reading comics as a kid in Australia in the 80s meant just finding incomplete runs and random issues in newsagents and 2nd hand shops mostly so pretty much everything I read I had to piece together backstories and who was who etc, it was just part of the reading experience (having said that, I remember being disappointed Shady's ancestor wasn't some epic present day hero in comics because of how the story portrayed her lol)

Much the same for me. I too was unfamiliar with the Fourth World stuff on first reading and still enjoyed it a lot. When later rereading it with some of that knowledge it enhanced my enjoyment but it was still a good story without knowing that background.

It would be interesting to hear from a completely new reader from today (if such a person would ever pick up the trade) to see how they felt about it with all the additional exposure the New Gods and Darkseid in particular have had since that time. Of course it would be pretty much impossible for them not to know who the big bad was going in. No surprise reveal for them.

A bit tangential, but I first read the GDS after being introduced to the SW6 Legion. So you can imagine my confusion, I was like 8 at the time.

Then I got a few issues of the Reboot Legion, and got even more confused

Like:

why does Leviathan have headgear here, and not there
Oh, this Ayla is also Garth's sister, but has lightning powers! I guess he has two... wait, but they're twins...
Why is Garth called Live Wire here, and Lightning Lad there?
Why is Kid Quantum a jerk here, and nice and calm there?

and then 8-year old me discovered the Internet...

Fair points, CA and razsolo.

Probably "WTF is a Mother-box" was a bad explanation as to why the dependence on New Gods ranks GDS lower for me... it wasn't confusion , it is really more that bringing in characters and artifacts from outside the Legion universe feels like a contrivance, even if what they are and what they represent is easy to understand. But more importantly, the issue is that prefer the Legion to star in a Legion epic - I'd feel the same if they brought in Batman characters who i am 100% familiar with instead of New Gods,,

Anyway, it is not like it ruined the story for me - I still think GDS is great, this is just what keeps me from ranking it at the top of LSH storylines.

As promised, since my retrospective has reached the GDS, I'll be posting the links and some observations. Though it's just the prologue now.

https://comicsarcheology.com/index.php/2022/09/07/legion-of-super-heroes-287-part-1/
https://comicsarcheology.com/index.php/2022/09/07/legion-of-super-heroes-287-part-2/

Having started reading the Legion with the following issue, it's amazing to me just how many things that I thought were iconic parts of the Legion were actually far more recent... the Mission Monitor icons and Interlac were JUST introduced by the time we got to the GDS!

Also, as mentioned at the end of the second part... would Darkseid have been awakened if Mon-El got to Apokolips without Shadow Lass? I got the impression that it was mostly because of her shadow power.

Oh this'll be fun next bunch of entries from you, CA!

You're right, GDS was very early in the Levitz run, which is really ambitious. And I'm glad that you noted the REDACTED importance of this issue.

Still in the prologue phase, but this holds a special place in my heart since it contains the first Legion pages I ever read.

https://comicsarcheology.com/index.php/2022/09/14/legion-of-super-heroes-288/

It's kind of weird that Hagga doesn't have a more prominent role in Projectra's appearances, isn't it? She could've been a great villain during the Sensor Girl era.
Also, do we know how far back Levitz planned the switch between Shrinking Violet and Yera? I haven't found any major red flags so far, but if it was already planned you can read some insight between the lines... or if he decided later you can read too much into it.

I rate it "among the best". Back then, Darkseid was known but not ubiquitous. The creative team dropped good hints for those familiar with the Fourth World to catch, and did a great job generating a sense of menace, especially in that scene where Daxam slowly rotates to reveal its new shape as Darkseid's head. Lots of references to Legion history and broad use of the supporting cast. Some have complained that the Highfather baby was something of a deus ex machina, but that's not true at all - he was intentionally summoned/conjured by the White Witch with a spell to get something that could defeat Darkseid. Also, to those who have had an issue with the Daxamites being too easily beaten, remember that they were not used to having super-powers.

I feel that other stories have since eclipsed it, but it was definitely one of the greats.

In my fanon, Hagga may have been a spiteful old batwitch, but she was fond of her relative (nephew? grandson? I don't even know...) Pharoxx, and after his death at the hands of the LSV, after betraying his world to the LSV (a fitting end!), she bargained with dark powers and gave up her own life to resurrect him.

Only for no-longer-Prince Pharoxx, freshly reborn after being off-handedly betrayed and murdered by the same villains he was betraying his own world to, decided, 'This ain't working.' and turned his life around, and, being exiled-under-pain-of-death from Orando, now wanders the UP as a sorcerer/swordsman/adventurer of sorts, trying to do some good, despite his upbringing and motivations, because he's already seen where his previous inclinations got him.

He's not a natural at this 'hero' thing, but he's not an *idiot* and this 'villain' thing was not working out. Plus his afterlife may not have been fun, and he might be *strongly* motivated to go somewhere better next time...

Still technically in the prologues.

https://comicsarcheology.com/index.php/2022/09/24/legion-of-super-heroes-289-part-1/
https://comicsarcheology.com/index.php/2022/09/24/legion-of-super-heroes-289-part-2/

Anyone else thinks Ayla is blowing what happened on the asteroid way out of proportion?
Since her relationship with Timber Wolf had quite a few signs of being a toxic one (and it's way obvious they would've split up even without the asteroid thing), it's quite interesting to see how the relationship that is impressing Saturn Girl so much is going under negative light.
Why wasn't she on the mission to save the missing Legionnaires, though?

This was my first full Legion story, and while the main story holds up very well in my opinion, that second one... really doesn't. At the time I assumed that R’Xalim was a regular Legion villain and I liked the design, but I must've been so impressed by discovering the Legion that I didn't really realize the second story is quite dumb. While I do like the way Levitz writes Brainy's internal dialogue... the garden just happens to have a flower that Element Lad is allergic to? Seriously?

Finally, please tell me this is the only time Bismollians are shown to be able to eat Inertron. I really, really don't like the idea that there's an entire planet of people who can eat the super-indestructible metal!
If it doesn't happen again... maybe Tenzil still has enough energy from the Miracle Machine left in him that allows him to eat Inertron? That stuff cannot be easy to digest, even for a Bismollian!

I enjoyed your latest write-up tanks again for the link.

It was ages before I got a copy of this issue and so it still seems somewhat fresh to me. I never understood how two teammates supporting each other in a crisis situation was evidence of infidelity or romantic affection. I can see that's what Levitz was going for in a wishy-washy kind of way with their hesitant pauses etc but it doesn't work for me. Then in the coming issues the rest of the team proceeds to gossip about "it". Otherwise the asteroid story is alright. the backup story - not so good and I agree with you about the inertron thing. Of course ME-Lad's powers have always been a bit up to the current writer - sometimes he can eat anything, sometimes he can't eat organic stuff, sometimes he can eat at super-speed - and nobody ever seems to comment on how super-powerful his jaw muscles and bone structure must be just to break up the chunks he munches on. Being able to digest something doesn't mean you can chew it. Just one of those many non-sensical element s of super-powers I guess, like E-Lad forming dispersed free-floating atoms of anything in to dense solid collections of something else. It just is.

Me. I thought this from the beginning. Garth did not react in anywhere near as much intensity. And all they did see was Imra and Brin hugging - they didn't even kiss. this whole thing always annoyed me, because you could see Brin TRY to talk to Ayla, and she silent treatment-ed and stonewalled him (a personal pet peeve of mine, and indeed one of the most unhealthy things one can do in a relationship)

TBH, this whole thing soured me on Element Lad too - Jan made snide comments to both Imra and Brin, without even hearing them out...

... the only thing that saved Ayla and Jan in my eyes? was Imra and Brin also talking about it in that one scene, and admitting they had their own small doubts.

But still, this whole thing was so annoying. I get that super heroes need drama too, but it reminded me of high school all over again.

Makes me wonder if Imra and Brin were originally supposed to kiss on the asteroid but it was vetoed because she was married?
I've heard dumber editorial interference.

One of the comments to my review calls this issue character assassination for Lightning Lad... but frankly I don't see it: every single other Legionnaire keeps telling him that the botched mission wasn't his fault, so I really don't think the story itself is blaming Garth. And I do buy that he's the kind of hero who feels responsible for stuff he couldn't possibly be blamed for (think Spider-Man).

The comment also raises an interesting point: was Chameleon Boy actually elected to the position of leader of the Espionage Squad?

I always thought the Espionage Squad was an unofficial thing, so I doubt there were leader elections.

I also agree that the Imra/Brin thing would have made much more sense if they had actually kissed...as it happened, it comes across as a very CW thing where the most minor conflict is blown out to ridiculous proportions just for the sake of drama.

I think I'm following along the same lines as most here. Ayla was overreacting to what she saw.

And in my opinion, I viewed this as (between personal experience and that of many I've known around that time and others in my life) that Ayla and Brin's relationship had been on thinning ice, and she used this incident as the final break. So yes it was overblown, but I think it can be viewed as her using it as an excuse to get out of a relationship she felt as stale.

Re Cham and the Espionage Squad, I think the precedent was set in a story near the end of Action Comics. Cham is contacted to form a team for an espionage squad mission, so that places him as leader. And he can draw from the entire Legion for his team. None of his other pics had stealthy powers - Imra, Val, Brin, Brainy and Jan were the others. They all just took on false identities.

Yeah, I feel the same way. They kind of both felt a bit outsidery, and glommed together at the start, but Brin was kind of needy, emotionally, and Ayla was exhausted by his dependence. Even the suggestion that he might be unfaithful provided her an 'out' from a relationship that was suffocating her.

And given how they've developed since then, I think their breakup was good for *both* of them. As long as he could cling to her for emotional support, he wasn't learning to move past his own traumatic past and stand on his own. Blok was kind of a perfect friend for him, in that sense, since Blok could be a good friend, but was utterly clueless about Brin's emotional BS, and couldn't be 'leaned on' in that manner.

Granted, that's all me reading into the text, but that's how it 'makes sense' to me.

The last of the preludes, with the most terrifying version of Computo to date:
https://comicsarcheology.com/index.php/2022/09/30/legion-of-super-heroes-annual-1/

The introduction of the new Invisible Kid is not bad and I will eventually like the character, but the fact that he was immediately promoted to full membership doesn't make all that much sense. I could buy it in the Hamilton era, but at this point the Legion Academy is well established!
How come Jacques immediately goes to the Legion but people like Lamprey and Crystal Kid are stuck in the Academy forever?

And finally the REAL beginning of the saga.
https://comicsarcheology.com/index.php/2022/10/08/legion-of-super-heroes-290/

I think Levitz wanted us to think the big bad guy was Mordru, with all the emphasis on magic during the first part.
It is kind of funny to see Darkseid wear that ridiculous outfit, not to mention the fact that Boom Tubes are now Plink Portals. It helps with the mystery and it's not unreasonable to think they've been upgraded, but still, kind of weird in retrospect.

It was interesting to see in the letters page that Dream Girl winning the election was not planned! Lots of interesting details on the votes.

I don't think many readers realized the Wand of Mentachem was not introduces here. Admittedly I'm not a big Hawkman fan so I didn't know either until I did some research for the review.

I loved that Annual. I had encountered the Legion before in black-and-white reprints with a few scattered stories from the adventure Era through the SLSH Era (along with others like Doom Patrol and Teen Titans etc), but this story (which was still a BaW reprint) really grabbed me. I had no idea who Computo was, never mind the other mentions such as the Earthwar or even Mordru. I was even pretty vague on who each legionnaire was, but this story was one my favourite superhero comics for a long time.

Your review of #290 is great too. Lots of good points.

I am trying to remember how many servants there were - the super, "Big Dome", shadow, and the rider - but there was an unspecified one that destroyed itself against Earth's dome in the Annual, and the image of Big Bad in his funny costume receiving the wand and sword shows another servant in the background. Am I forgetting someone or is this a well known goof that I have forgotten?

Those are the four that I remember most. Superman, Orion, an Oan, and the Mallor ancestor (I forgot Kalibak entirely!). I liked at the time how each tapped into some historical figure, and while we didn't necessarily know them all like Superman and Orion, at least they had some historical import to the characters (particularly Tasmia, in the case of having to fight a corrupt mockery of one of her heroic ancestors!). As I've gotten older, I also appreciate that they weren't all just twisted clones of the Justice League, since it would have been too easy to just make one a Superman clone, one a Wonder Woman clone, one a Flash clone, etc. and that while I love the Crime Syndicate, that sort of concept gets old fast.

I do feel the Mallor clone was under-explored (and it's effects on Tasmia), and there might have been even more pathos to be mined from one of the Servants being a twisted clone of a long-dead Trommite figure from history, since Jan is literally the only living member of his race, and seeing even their past and memory desecrated like this would be pretty wrenching for him.

double post. ugh!

LSH Annual 1 to me, at least when I read through the entire run this past year, That single issue seemed to define a sea change in the style and quality of the Legion stories all up, and it kind of raised the bar for the team.

Not too much to say for the second chapter. Oddly decompressed by the time's standards.

https://comicsarcheology.com/index.php/2022/10/17/legion-of-super-heroes-291-part-1/
https://comicsarcheology.com/index.php/2022/10/17/legion-of-super-heroes-291-part-2/

For the second story, am I the only one who vastly prefers the original version instead of the Giffen re-drawn version?

Parts 3 and 4. Darkseid's reveal still works as the twist, but it's especially imporant given the context of the time: Darkseid wasn't everywhere like in post-Crisis times. In fact, by 1982 he didn't have a ton of appearances outside of Fourth World series, and he almost never appears again afterwards until Crisis.

https://comicsarcheology.com/index.php/2022/10/23/legion-of-super-heroes-292/
https://comicsarcheology.com/index.php/2022/10/29/legion-of-super-heroes-293/

Interesting note about PG & Shady. They seemed to be best friends, but like you say, only superficially. Tinya, at least, seems to be defined in her personality by her relationship to Jo and that's about it.

I also agree with your comments that this is probably the best the Legion has been combining art and story. And the fact that Mon-El gets his butt kicked is significant!

293 - The build up to the reveal at the end was great - the only thing that I always question was why the Daxamites didn't do more damage across the galaxy.

Telescopic vision that you can't control, so you walk into everything in front of you.
Flight, but no coordination.
Reflexes, but with a mind that hasn't adjusted to them.
Being under mind control, and with superpowers that boost the mind to resist it.
The Comics Code that wouldn't allow that level of slaughter.
Off panel, the unsung heroes, Lead Lad and Lead Lass save the galaxy.

Part 5. This is probably the most representative issue of the saga, even though I personally prefer part 4. But this one has EVERYBODY (except Tyroc), it's as epic as it gets, it gives everyone something cool to do... it does have weaknesses, particularly in the finale (took me years to realize the problem with the switched suns), but overall I think it holds up almost perfectly.

https://comicsarcheology.com/index.php/2022/11/03/legion-of-super-heroes-294/

Next will be the "Legion Awards" for this era, which is mostly for fun but I'll also cover the importance of the Great Darkness Saga. That's where this thread will be extremely useful; do you guys mind if I quote some of the posts made in this thread (giving credit of course) ?

Great wrap up of the GDS!

I never noticed the sun color error before. I'm assuming it was colorist/editor error that let that slip by.

But yeah, it's such a classic. I still think the DaVinci pose was an odd choice though.

That's Michelangelo, not DaVinci :-) but yeah, pretty odd.

LOL! OMG I can't believe I did that. Of course it's Michelangelo.

While it was *sweet* seeing Element Lad shut down the Daxamites attacking Earth with a planetary-scale bit of transmutation, it seems like the writers have backed away from that consistently ever since. In the Threeboot, he was limited to touch range, temporary transmutations, and in the later 'Retroboot,' he has to combine his powers with Earth-Man borrowing them *and* have them enhanced by a Green Lantern ring, to fuel a similar planetary-scale act of atmospheric transmutation! (And, canonically, there's no permanent cure for Daxamite lead poisoning. One little exposure and it's incurably fatal, save via Brainy's temporary cure, or sending them all to the Zone... So, yikes?)

For a time, it seemed all the rage to bump various Legionnaires up to truly amazing levels. Sun Boy mimics the radiance of Imsk's sun to attract some migrating space dragons, while Shady blots out the radiance of the actual star to hide it from the dragons! Nothing we'd ever seen before or since had indicated that Shadow Lass could blot out an entire star! It was cool, and fit a team built around Superboy, who juggled planets, back in the day, but it seems like we've settled down to a more 'super, but not CRAZY' level of power for most of the Legion.

Although I have fanwanks for some of them.

A) There's X amount of transmutation available for Trommites to access, and when there were thousands of them, they had very limited powers, but now that Jan's the only one, all that power is his alone. The power of an entire world full of transmuters, in his hands...

B) Deep in the heart of Talokk VIII something lies buried. Is it good? Is it bad? Is Shady feeding it by sending light she negates to it? Or is she sending energy to the heart of Talokk VIII because the planet is old and tired, and only the work of the Shadow Champion(s) keeps the planet's heart warm and molten, the world vital and alive long after it should have gone cold? Or is she keeping something imprisoned down there in the planet's core? Would the planet crack apart like an egg, birthing a new horror on the universe if the Shadow Champion didn't keep it bound? In any event, it would explain why her 'darkfields' are so amazing!

The only fan theory I could come up with is that Brainy calculated the absolute mininimum amount of lead that could hurt the Daxamite without remaining in their system, and the shock freed them Darkseid's control. Admittedly it's not the best explanation but it's something.


That's generally a problem across pre-Crisis DC. Consistency was not exactly a priority for the longest time.


I don't have a problem with that, Sun Boy was able to create a mini-star that attracted the attention of the Sun Eater so I don't think it's much outside of his power.


Fair, but that's a rather specific use of her power that shouldn't come up all that often. How often would she need to obscure an entire star?
At least pre-Crisis it wouldn't do much against Kryptonians and Daxamites, since it seems that as long as they're not under a red star their powers just keep on going... but come to think of it, she could be very effective against post-Crisis ones since they deplete the amount of energy unless they're exposed to some sunlight. Granted it usually takes a long time before they run out of energy, but still.


That's one of the things I dislike about some of the latest incarnations. I totally get wanting to keep the powers under control, but in some cases they went too far. For example, you mentioned Element Lad: I seriously hated how much he was depowered by the Threeboot. Probably in response to how absurdly powerful he could get in earlier versions, but giving him the touch limitation AND the one-hour rule was too much. One of the things I've always loved about Element Lad was that he was a powerhouse without having one of the typical physical powers, but the Threeboot was almost useless.
And since the Legion has a whole Galaxy to protect, it does makes sense to have several members that can work on a planetary scale, as long as there's enough variety in the team.


This is one of the best Legion theories I've ever read, kudos :-)

Yeah, that's my thought, too. That there was an unforeseen lower-level of radiation poisoning that didn't trigger the full-on collapse that Mon-El suffered when Superboy exposed him to those giant balls of lead.

And wow, that went to a weird place in those last four words.



I was pleasantly surprised when, in Legion of Three Worlds, one or more of the Shady's attempted to 'drain the yellow sun energy' out of Superbrat Prime, which was something I'd theorized she might be able to do, but never seen even hinted, and sure as heck flips the apparent power dynamic between her and Mon-El, knowing that she can turn off his powers like that! (Then again, it didn't really work, but, then again again, *nothing* worked the way it was supposed to on Prime, not magic, not kryptonite, probably not antimatter...)


True enough, I definitely felt that Threeboot Element Lad was hit way too hard with the nerf hammer, and could have at least remained at 'Sersi' levels of transmutation goodness. (Plus they straight up ignored their own limitations of touch range more than once!) Ayla as Light Lass got a nice buff, later on, with that massive gravity storm feat, and later helping to rebalance the gravitational balance of the entire solar system.



Thanks! It was something I noodled up for a pondered fanfic dealing with Element Lad and some activists wanting to clone and repopulate Trom (a plan to which he'd be opposed, on purely philosophical and spiritual grounds), since some of the political hobnobbers way behind the well-meaning activists want A) an entire population of transmuters who might be more willing to use their powers for their own economic benefit than Jan has been, and B) an entire new 'world' worth of voters who can be haggled over and divvied up amongst the hungry politicos who can rightly claim that they literally brought them into existence! (so vote for me, the guy who helped give you life!). Jan would be, unamused.

And here's the Legion Awards for this era, as usual more than a little tongue in cheek.
I took the liberty of quoting some of the comments from this thread (lightly edited for brevity but trying to keep the main points), giving the appropriate credit. I hope everyone's okay with it.

https://comicsarcheology.com/index.php/2022/11/05/legion-awards-great-darkness-saga/

It's been a wonderful discussion that has given me more insight than I anticipated on the first Legion story I ever read.

Thanks, CA. I'm flattered that you quoted me. Thanks for starting this poll, it was a great discussion and it helped me learn to better appreciate the good things about GDS.

This was a GREAT write up; a very enjoyable read and thanks for quoting me! Looking forward to the next one!