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 Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Wanderer
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Wanderer
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Wanderer
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This series is going to go down in history as such a display of spreading out 1 or 2 pages of story into 7-8 pages, rinse and repeat.
So many wasted opportunities for some amazing adventures.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Thanks for posting this, Nighty. I agree completely.
The pages that we see on this preview - the opening 7 pages (I'm assuming of 23) of the last issue of the mini - are pages we should have seen in issue 3 or 4.
They have to jam the resolution of this, with all 30-something characters, in another 14 pages. I'm really intrigued by what I see here, but it needs to come to an end pretty quickly.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 106
Substitute
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Substitute
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 106 |
Imagine if this mini-series started with this issue. This would have been a great opening, with the Legion and League trying to backtrack and figure it all out in following issues.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Time Trapper
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Time Trapper
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This....is it? I mean, there's what, 13 pages of story left?
You can bet it'l be a quick semi-wrap that will spin into something else that doesn't get the job done.
The original adventure stories would have told this and a second story in the same issue as well.
I've tried not to be to negative about this. Someone told me I was damning with faint praise for the most part. But come on...this is the big wrap? I know there are more pages, but for all this...three years starting with Rose and Thorn...and all we are is here?
Nah, man. 5YL wasn't my favorite, but it beats the hell outta this.
Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
Something pithy!
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 83,498
Unseen, not unheard
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Unseen, not unheard
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Nothing much has been done with Rose and Thorn either... She's just kinda there.
Sadly, this phrase applies to most of the characters in this Legion... and in this mini so far... they're just kinda... there
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 106
Substitute
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Substitute
Joined: Nov 2021
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13 pages left to:
- Defeat or confront Vandal Savage
- Undo Vandal Savage's timeline
- Explain Gold Lantern's ring
- Return everyone to the 21st and 31st centuries
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,730
Wanderer
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Wanderer
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Leader
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Leader
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I'm okay with that, if you use spoiler tags. I'll likely not be buying it.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Wanderer
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Wanderer
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Here's what happens. NOTHING. SIX ISSUES OF NOTHING. THREE YEARS OF NOTHING.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Leader
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Leader
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LOL That's not really spoilers. 
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Wanderer
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Wanderer
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Ok. This was a rough one. I love the look and the ideas behind this version of the Legion, but it needs a writer that knows how to tell a story on the page. Everything that supposedly happened in this series, happened in Bendis' imagination. We never got any of the stories he was supposed to tell us. And this ending, doesn't make any sense. How did he manage NOT to explain how everyone got back to their proper ages - Magenta Triplicate Girl, Black Adam, Green Arrow, etc. How did an editor say that this was fit to print? Is "Timeline Enforcers" the new Legion status quo that was mentioned? I need a new writer to come in and work with Ryan Sook and make this mean something and tell me some stories worth reading about and spending money on.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Leader
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Leader
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I just have no words - Just like Salu!
3 years, 22 issues, and the only character development Shrinking Violet received was in the Pride Special - and she never received a single word of dialogue the whole time
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,730
Wanderer
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Wanderer
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I'm just now realizing this run has gone on as long as the pandemic, and it left us with absolutely NOTHING
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,931
Leader
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Leader
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 83,498
Unseen, not unheard
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Unseen, not unheard
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I guess we are all united in disappointment...
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,730
Wanderer
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Wanderer
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I don't think Bendis is the man who ruined the Legion. That honor goes to Byrne. I do think however he wrote a very bad and uninspired Legion series and it only proves beyond a doubt that rebooting them yet again was a bad idea
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,159
Devil's Advocate
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Devil's Advocate
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And what about Gold Lantern? We were promised an amazing origin story. Where is it?
Watching television is not an activity.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Wanderer
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Wanderer
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And what about Gold Lantern? We were promised an amazing origin story. Where is it? Not there.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 106
Substitute
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Substitute
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No answers to any questions, and even created more questions.
On Vandal Savage and the Great Darkness:
How did he obtain the Great Darkness?
Where did he obtain the Great Darkness?
Who made it, if it was a creation, him or someone else?
How did he conquer and harness it, if it was a discovery instead?
How did he learn about it?
Why does it exist, what purpose does it serve?
What is the potential scope of its power, does it only alter timelines, does it warp reality, or do something else?
What is the difference between this Great Darkness and the one from Dark Crisis?
Why do they have the same name in two different, concurrent stories?
Why doesn't it work the same as the Dark Crisis Great Darkness?
Why does no one in Dark Crisis mention encountering it?
Why is Vandal Savage wiping out the Justice League when he is also a member of the Totality alongside them, since the end of Death Metal?
Why don't the Justice League mention this betrayal, especially when he is directly going against the founding purpose of the Totality?
How did Vandal Savage get sucked into the Gold Lantern ring without noticing?
Where did Vandal get the black ring he wears at the end, and is it connected to Lantern Rings?
On the Gold Lantern and the Oans:
What is a Gold Lantern's purpose, which distinguishes it from other lanterns?
Why did the Oans make a new lantern type instead of making more Green Lanterns like they've been doing for billions of years?
Why was Kala chosen to be the only Gold Lantern, instead of having several?
Where do Gold Lantern powers come from, a Gold Lantern battery?
What emotional or mental state is a Gold Lantern ring powered by?
How is Kala supposed to make a whole Lantern Corp by himself when he just started his job and spent most of the story confused, scared, and making rash choices?
Why don't the Oans make more Gold Lanterns themselves instead?
Why is everyone trusting the Oans when Brainy made it clear that they could not be trusted and were not what they seemed?
Why don't the Oans seem to remember the Justice League?
When did Gold Lantern rings gain the power to create fully realistic pocket realities inside of themselves and suck people inside of them?
How did the Gold Lantern ring fully contain the Great Darkness inside of it, alongside Vandal Savage?
Why don't the Justice Leaguers remember that Gold Lantern rings can contain the Great Darkness, when they encounter it before the Dark Crisis?
Extra:
Why don't Jon and Imra continue their relationship, and/or why did they break up?
Why don't the Leaguers react to meeting Superman's son's girlfriend/ex?
Why don't the Leaguers react to meeting Superman's snotty direct descendant Mon-el?
Why do the Leaguers act like they've never been this far into the future when they have, numerous times?
Why do the Leaguers consider this version of the 31st century perfect, when the Earth was destroyed?
Why don't the Leaguers demand to know how the Earth was destroyed?
How does Alan Scott meet a Gold Lantern early in his career and never mention it to any Green Lanterns later?
Why does Alan Scott not investigate or mention that massive time anomaly, especially in the modern era where he has the resources and help to do so?
And still...after six issues...
Why are the Justice League and the Legion of Superheroes not VERSUS each other when its the title of the book?
Apologies if something was answered in a previous issue, which is a real possibility because so many pages fade from memory as soon as they leave my sight, because each issue is over before I can commit much to memory. I haven't been hate-reading. I swear. It is more that I am bewildered by how badly written and conceived this mini-series, and this entire unwanted reboot, have been. I purposefully read every issue the day it releases. I know what I will be getting. And every time I wonder if my brow can furrow any further. I've reached peak furrow. I look like a chimp trying to work a calculator. How is such an experienced writer responsible for this, with every issue? How does editorial not raise a dozen immediate questions when they get each script? Who does publishing think wants this?
Last edited by Alexander; 09/27/22 03:49 PM.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,730
Wanderer
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Wanderer
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None of us tried to hate-read it. At least I didn't at the start. I tried to listen to what others were suggesting and gave it a chance, and it was horrible. What makes me madder are the people who gave the high road answers of "it's not for you" or "it's for new readers." I cannot recall a single new fan of the Legion emerging because of this book.
It reached a point where I wasn't even commenting on this to bash it online over on twitter and facebook I was so bored.
I feel sorry for Ryan Sook, Scott Godlewski, and every other artist who wasted their time and energy on this series.
In three years, the only people who made an effort that actually meant something or wasn't being squandered because of Bendis's writing were Rich Bernatovech, Travis Mercer, Devin Grayson, Nick Robles, and ME. And I still regret that we couldn't use the classic Legionnaires, because what was the point of having THIS Brainy and THIS Dawny acknowledged as demisexual and bisexual on panel when no one's likely to use them in the future.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6,591
Wanderer
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Wanderer
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Yeah, big disappointment. Not unexpected after the first five issues of nothing except a reveal in the end of the penultimate issue of the main villain with absolutely no clues or recognisable connection to previous events in the series - and then we finish it up this way with still no answer to really what was happening except bad guy got tech from place in future that he used to do it but JL (really just Batman and not the Legion) somehow trick him and trap him with previously unrevealed powers in a way that is unexplained - and we still know next to nothing about Gold Lantern - except he can look startled and unsure what to do a lot.
I think it says something that I managed to summarise the issue without giving away much in the way of spoilers, because there really wasn't anything to spoil. Good guys tricked bad guy and won (in fact tricked him so well that we the reader still don't really know how they did it). No effect on any of the heroes, or the villain, or apparently the universe, in the present or in the future.
Being me I want to finish on a positive. A lot of the art was pretty. I enjoyed a handful of moments between the League and the Legion (although there were also many I didn't). It's just a bit sad that the biggest positive is that at least we still have all those past stories that we still enjoy.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,780
Wanderer
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Wanderer
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I get the feeling this mini-series was intended to be an attention-grabbing, Legion-boosting project. They built anticipation for a solid new rendition of the Legion's previous Great Darkness story. They promised that the Legion would go to battle against DC's superstar Justice League. They brought in the Lanterns, but with a mysterious new Gold one to discover. There are some writers who could have done something amazing with that. Bendis, though, built a shell and filled it with a crowd of flat-footed characters speaking his awkward banter. The characters told us how cosmic the story was. If we could only have seen it.
The Legion's future is to serve as timestream police and help search for new Gold Lanterns.
And the last page basically tells us that the whole "universe-changing" story and its resolution didn't really matter.
Bendis has some interesting seed ideas. He just can't seem to make a meaningful story out of them.
I've always thought the Legion had as much potential as the X-Men, whose stories play with concepts that are imagination-stretching and with a multitude of characters that are rich in personality and motivation. The Legion is perfect for the same. DC, you don't have to go as complex as the X-Men, but you've got a lot of room to get better with the Legion. If you ever will.
"Everything about this is going to feel different." (Saturn Girl, Legion of Super-Heroes #1)
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,730
Wanderer
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Wanderer
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I get the feeling this mini-series was intended to be an attention-grabbing, Legion-boosting project. They built anticipation for a solid new rendition of the Legion's previous Great Darkness story. They promised that the Legion would go to battle against DC's superstar Justice League. They brought in the Lanterns, but with a mysterious new Gold one to discover. There are some writers who could have done something amazing with that. Bendis, though, built a shell and filled it with a crowd of flat-footed characters speaking his awkward banter. The characters told us how cosmic the story was. If we could only have seen it.
The Legion's future is to serve as timestream police and help search for new Gold Lanterns.
And the last page basically tells us that the whole "universe-changing" story and its resolution didn't really matter.
Bendis has some interesting seed ideas. He just can't seem to make a meaningful story out of them.
I've always thought the Legion had as much potential as the X-Men, whose stories play with concepts that are imagination-stretching and with a multitude of characters that are rich in personality and motivation. The Legion is perfect for the same. DC, you don't have to go as complex as the X-Men, but you've got a lot of room to get better with the Legion. If you ever will. Then this whole period for the Legion is basically what the X-Men suffered through from House of M to House of X. Which, Bendis also had a large hand in shaping.
Last edited by Sarcasm Kid; 09/27/22 09:47 PM.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Sep 2005
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I'll be honest. This whole experience has left me even more jaded than usual.
Bendis was teasing about writing this ALL THROUGH 2021. And this is what we ended up with.
He even went on Legion podcasts to promote this and discuss Legion. And this is what we ended up with.
This was written well before Scott and Ryan started drawing this. So did they go back and torpedo this? Was editorial involved at all? Was this a confluence of events that made a shit product?
All I know is that when you do a job, you put your best foot forward in the context of the medium and the environment in which you are working; this establishes your reputation to deliver good work.
In the art department, this was delivered.
If this story were submitted to me as someone evaluating spec scripts for publication, I'd tell them to get the hell out of my damn office.
This is borderline unprofessional IMO.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,159
Devil's Advocate
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Devil's Advocate
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I hate to say it, but it looks like a once great writer has gone downhill, just like John Byrne and Frank Miller before him. But this time it's even more disappointing. At least Byrne and Miller made such asses out of themselves in interviews that it was almost a relief to not have to defend their art any more. But Bendis seems like he's still a nice guy by all accounts. I want to still like his writing, but he's not making it easy.
Watching television is not an activity.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Wanderer
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Wanderer
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That honor goes to Byrne. I disagree, the blame belongs to Mike Carlin.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Leader
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Leader
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That honor goes to Byrne. I disagree, the blame belongs to Mike Carlin. Was he behind the Superman mandate post-Crisis?
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,038
Long live the Legion!
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Long live the Legion!
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,038 |
I promised to say only positive things. Ryan Sook's art is pretty, and, like Coipel, Manapul and Cinar before him in the Threeboot and Retroboot, I hope to see more of this new Legion artist in the future. I've been introduced to some great artists on this book, over the years (Lightle, LaRocque, etc.), so it's nice to see the trend continue.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Wanderer
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Wanderer
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That honor goes to Byrne. I disagree, the blame belongs to Mike Carlin. Was he behind the Superman mandate post-Crisis? He was not behind the "Superman was not Superboy" mandate, but he was behind the "erase even the Pocket-Universe Superboy from Legion history" mandate.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: May 2013
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Wanderer
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Wanderer
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I promised to say only positive things. Ryan Sook's art is pretty, and, like Coipel, Manapul and Cinar before him in the Threeboot and Retroboot, I hope to see more of this new Legion artist in the future. I've been introduced to some great artists on this book, over the years (Lightle, LaRocque, etc.), so it's nice to see the trend continue. Well said Set, and well done.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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That honor goes to Byrne. I disagree, the blame belongs to Mike Carlin. Was he behind the Superman mandate post-Crisis? He was not behind the "Superman was not Superboy" mandate, but he was behind the "erase even the Pocket-Universe Superboy from Legion history" mandate. Gotcha, that was the one I was thinking about. IMO, both of them, Carlin and Byrne deserve criticism around this. And if we're being honest, Giffen & the Bierbaums need to be included in there too. Their overcorrection of the Glorithverse added so much more complexity to the continuity that it made things more difficult for everyone, IMO. They could have kept writing and avoid the supers all together. But that's a topic for another thread. 
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Mar 2012
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Active
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Active
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Well, I finally got around to reading this final issue and I have to say I was very underwhelmed with the finished product. Where does this new Legion go from here I wonder.
In the present
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Wanderer
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Wanderer
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I think Bendis entered into this project assuming, since he was starting the Legion over from scratch, he didn't care about their prior characterization and core personality traits. Which is why so many of his Legionnaires have little to no personality. He tried to rely on their physical characteristics through Ryan Sook's new designs to carry them until he had a chance to shine the spotlight on them, and it... did not work. Because he tried doing too much and it never happened, which is how he probably got bored with it.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Active
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Active
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Yes SK, I agree with the things you said. Maybe after this last story this iteration can just go into "limbo" like others (ie: Threeboot Legion) have done.
I hope someone else comes along and reinvents the classic Legion, staying true to its origins while giving us a fresh, contemporary take on it! Here's hoping (fingers crossed).
In the present
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Unseen, not unheard
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Unseen, not unheard
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It’s annoying, because if Bendis had paced it better… the Threeboot also started with a large cast, but they were introduced to us with starting stories focusing on 4-8 Legionnaires at a time. Here we just get 30+ all in crowd scenes, so most of them got barely any development
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,730
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,730 |
It’s annoying, because if Bendis had paced it better… the Threeboot also started with a large cast, but they were introduced to us with starting stories focusing on 4-8 Legionnaires at a time. Here we just get 30+ all in crowd scenes, so most of them got barely any development Some of them didn't get ANY development. Violet, Tenzil, poor X-Ray Girl, the other two Sook created...
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Sep 2005
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It’s annoying, because if Bendis had paced it better… the Threeboot also started with a large cast, but they were introduced to us with starting stories focusing on 4-8 Legionnaires at a time. Here we just get 30+ all in crowd scenes, so most of them got barely any development I really don't know how any new fans or folks that buy anything Bendis really liked it - I've never heard any critical reviews that go into why they like it so much. But when I read it it seems too ADHD even for me. You have so many things going on in the background that do nothing other than provide distraction - "Why is Vi eating with Star Boy? Are they going to do something together?" which all leads to nothing. Here's hoping they make the call to do something more interesting next time with people who actually care about the book. With this latest experiment, I felt like Bendis went to DiDio and asked for this. DiDio said, "no one gets the Legion anymore" then Bendis said "I can fix it" and promptly made things worse.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,038
Long live the Legion!
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Long live the Legion!
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,038 |
It’s annoying, because if Bendis had paced it better… the Threeboot also started with a large cast, but they were introduced to us with starting stories focusing on 4-8 Legionnaires at a time. Here we just get 30+ all in crowd scenes, so most of them got barely any development Some of them didn't get ANY development. Violet, Tenzil, poor X-Ray Girl, the other two Sook created... I've always liked 'new' Legionnaires, from when 'new' meant Dawnstar or Tellus, or the new Reboot characters Kid Quantum, Gates, Dragonmage, etc. or even those lonely new Threeboot characters, Gazelle, Theena, Turtle and Sizzle, so I was really hoping for some interesting stuff about 'X-Ray Girl' (who we never really met at all, that I saw), or Monster Boy, or the alien (same race as the Green Lantern Salakk?) Dr. Fate. (Gold Lantern was really the least interesting one, to me.) And yet, not so much.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Wanderer
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Wanderer
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Wow. I COMPLETELY forgot about Dr. Fate.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,038
Long live the Legion!
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Long live the Legion!
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,038 |
Wow. I COMPLETELY forgot about Dr. Fate. I like the visual of a spellcaster with four arms, and would love to see how he could possibly cast two spells at once. (Since Slyggians, IIRC, are also supposed to be geniuses compared to humans, and super good at multitasking due to their brain structure, although, at least if Salakk was any indication, somewhat uncreative and 'by the book', which would make an interesting limitation for a spellcaster, being stuck in a rut and using spells in a rote manner, and resisting the idea of using a spell for other than it's intended purpose, or using magic from less precise and methodical traditions.)
Last edited by Set; 10/03/22 06:51 PM.
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