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It is unusual for High School romances to last into adulthood, although it does happen. However, with the Legion, it is the rule rather than the exception.
On the other hand, at least in my mind, most of the Legionnaire couples are beautifully matched.

I am going to present my analyses here of the psychology and personalities of these Legion couples, at least as I see them. A lot of it is my reading detail into stories that are perhaps not there, but I will try to avoid imposing too much of my own headcanon. I hope.

To begin with, I am going to look at TOS, 5YL and the Retroboot Legion, without particularly differentiating one from another.

I may later look at the Batch SW6 / Reboot Legionnaires, and the Threeboot, but I will have to do some research, because except for the Brainy / Andromeda, Brainy / Dreamer, and Phantom Girl / Ultraboy pairings, I don’t remember the details of other romantic relationships.

I look forward to your thoughts and comments, of course. And I am always ready to believe I am wrong in my opinions,

I will begin with what I consider the epitome of Legion romances:

#1: Saturn Girl (Imra Ardeen) and Lightning Lad (Garth Ranzz)
(of course)

When first introduced, telepathy was only one aspect of Saturn Girl’s ‘super-mind’. She displayed expert detective skills, as well as expertise in 3Oth-century sciences. It is possible that Binder intended her people to be more highly evolved, reflecting Heslod’s utopian society of the “Golden Age of Saturn”. But Imra’s super-intelligence was later *sub* to Brainiac 5’s “12th-level Computer Mind.”
Nevertheless, Imra is inarguably one of the brainier members of the Legion.
So what is a smart girl like Hermione Imra doing with a dolt like Ron Garth?

No, Garth is not stupid. He is impulsive, even rash, but he is not stupid. He has a number of redeeming qualities as well. His love of family is evident-- even for his black sheep older brother Mekt. He is heroic and brave-- the sort who runs toward gunfire. He also has hidden depths-- Imra is not entirely able to read his deepest thoughts, and that intrigues her. He became all the more intriguing when a shadow of the Soul of Antares’ personality melded with his, calming his more reckless impulses.

Although Lightning Ring Farms lives fallow for a decade or more, Garth returns there. Imra likes this domesticity, and Garth’s extended family: Ayla and Mekt, and Salu and Rokk and Lydda. She is comfortable there: note that none of her blood relatives come to live on Winath.

And then there is Garridan and Graym and Dorrit and Dacey. Garth and Imra evolve into the patriarch and matriarch of a large family.

Comfortable is the word for their relationship. They are comfortable and secure in their love for one another, and have planned for a long future together.

this is a great thread, Klar!

beautiful write-up on Garth and Imra. for sure, Garth had a lot to offer to Imra, he definitely intrigued her. I think him figuring out her plan (to sacrifice herself so the rest of the Legion would not die), then him dying in her place, played a huge part; as well as Imra intending to die so Garth could be resurrected. For sure, not something every couple goes through!

always happy to point you to sources for some of the Reboot relationships. There was Lu/Chuck, XS/Magno, Reep/Ayla, Rokk/Jazmin (Kid Quantum II), Nura/Thom. there were also a few flirtations, but not what I would call real couples.

I love the idea of connecting Titan to Hesiod's Golden Age!

I agree with Ibby, this is a GREAT discussion and I can't wait to hear more. Great write up of the Ranzzes.

Your write up helps rinse away the horrible Jim Shooter character write ups that live in my head

It will be interesting to hear your Threeboot take, since they aren't in line with the classic lineup

I wonder how 'typical' both Garth and Imra are for their respective cultures.

Almost all of the other Winathians we've seen in the past have been inseperable from their twins, living together, marrying matching pairs of twins, having the same jobs, etc. When we meet Garth, he's on his own, and has seemingly zero contact with his twin. (yes, I know, meta reasons, but still, it's interesting to find in-story explanations for these sorts of things!) He (and Ayla, for that matter), seem *much* more capable of healthily functioning on their own than the average Winathian. (Mekt being the poster-child for not having a twin to 'ground' or 'balance' someone's personality causes at least some Winathians to spiral.) And yes, Ayla *did* eventually join her brother in the Legion and 'get the same job and live in the same place' (even if it was Legion HQ and not a big farmhouse), but they spent years apart, which seems very unusual for Winathians.

Imra seems to come from a very 'close' culture, who, being telepaths, seem likely to have very different ideas of intimacy and closeness. Not a lot of Titanians are seen off-planet, relatively speaking, and those that are sometimes are shown wearing almost same-same-y uniform outfits (like both Imra first showed up in, and Saturn Queen used to wear, which was the same basic outfit in different colors). I wonder if Imra, like Garth, is very atypical for her world and culture, and they find a certain comfortable acceptance in each other, when other Winathians might think Garth kind of 'abandoned his family' and other Titanians might think Imra has deprived her world of her talents and gone off to live on other planets, leaving her birth-culture behind.

And I could see either or both of their homeworlds containing some elements who aren't exactly thrilled that 'the most famous Titanian' is that hussy who skipped off-world the first chance she got and married an alien, not loving that the rest of the UP thinks 'Titanian' and the example that comes to mind is the one who left them behind... Some might think she's a great 'ambassador' for their people, others might squint at the perception she gives that Titanians are such alpha telepaths (showing off and 'flaunting' the most controversial and frightening element of Titanians, their telepathy, at which she is far, far better than the average Titanian, giving people who don't know any better cause to worry about 'mental privacy' and all that, when the average Titanian probably *doesn't* have Imra's prodigious talents or vast experience working with alien minds).

I agree with everyone that this is a great topic for discussion. Thanks Klar.

The twin background of Winath is an interesting one, particularly since it seems to be only (or at least predominantly) identical or monozygotic twins. This is when a single fertilised egg splits and develops in to two genetically identical individuals. The other sort of twins, fraternal or dizygotic, is when two separate eggs are fertilised simultaneously creating two siblings who just happen to be the same age. (Being a father of fraternal twins, boy and girl, means I notice things like this.) Every other case of Winathians we have seen, including Garth and Imra's offspring, appear to be identical twins. This means that Mekt is really not the only singleton in the Ranzz family. Garth and Ayla are also effectively singletons that happened to be born on the same day. I can see their growing up together being accepted as a kind of socially acceptable situation compared to Mekt but I am sure there would still be some teasing and ostracization for them as well, which well may have contributed to their life choices.

This is a so much better way of understanding the situation than the "Proty replacing Garth" idea that seemed more pushed in 5YL. I like it. Still Garth but with a bit extra.

That's a great way to describe their relationship.


This is a great idea too, that each of them are somewhat different to the mainstream of their home cultures and don't quite fit in, and that being a point of connection between them. Of course all of the legionnaires are probably outstanding examples of their homeworlds considering their willingness to sacrifice themselves for others, but the idea that Garth and Imra were to some extent outcasts adds to the background.

re the twins, the Reboot did show that fraternal twins were also quite common (see: Legends of the Legion 2, we see Spark at school, a few of their friend group were fraternal twins - though you are correct, identical twins were more common!) however, it was never implied or shown that identical twins were considered "more" of a twin than fraternal ones were

I do agree that a common connection between Imra and Garth could easily have been their relative "outsider-ness" on their homeworlds!

I really like Klar's use of the Antareas as augmenting Garth vs a complete personality replacement. It even works for the SW6 batch - the Antareans tempering his hot headedness making him more likeable and intriguing for Imra herself.

Imra herself is also an interesting study - communication, friendship and intimacy would all be very different for a telepath society. Does Imra find that being a Legionnaire is better because she can tune out non-titanians better, or does she like the "mental noise"? Or specific to Garth, does she enjoy being with a non-telepath (a telepath being more selectively guarded intimately) but the Soul of Antares aspect makes him more of an interesting puzzle for her that adds to her attraction?

#2: Cosmic Boy (Rokk Krinn) and Night Girl (Lydda Jath)

It has been remarked that Rokk and Lydda may have an unhealthy relationship, at least at the beginning.

Night Girl is initially presented as a sort of fan girl / stalker. In her first appearance, she reveals that she participated in her father’s experiments because of her desire to join the Legion.

“Now I can go to Earth and join The Legion of Super-Heroes, as I’ve always dreamed!”
-- Adventure Comics #306

In her second appearance, we learn that her ‘dream’ of joining the Legion was actually motivated by a long-standing long-distance crush on Cosmic Boy.

“I’ve been in love with Cosmic Boy for a long time! Even Cosmic Boy doesn’t know it, but I tried to join the Legion of Super-Heroes just to be near him!”
-- Adventure Comics #311

It seems rather problematic that she believes she has ‘been in love’ a long time with someone she met just five issues ago!

Cosmic Boy is an admirable character in the Legion mythos, honorable and courageous, a born leader, with the disposition of a true hero. In 5YL Mordru treats Rokk with respect, even after he has lost his powers. Glorith does the same. So there is much for Lydda to be attracted to. Rokk eventually reciprocates Lydda’s feelings, and they become a regular couple.

However, the dynamic of the relationship is curious. Certainly Rokk thinks of himself as heroic, and might appreciate fan-girlish praise-- although Lydda is never so obvious on-panel. Lydda sometimes joins Rokk in his adventures with his Legion. She becomes something of a de facto Reservist or Honorary member. But it does not go both ways: Rokk does not team up with Lydda and the Subs. Their attempt to create a new and improved Legion of Substitute Heroes with the Taines, Myg, and Comet Queen goes nowhere.

When Lydda teams up with Shadow Lass, an extremely effective teaming, Rokk breaks things off for awhile-- ostensibly because Lydda stood him up for a date in order to fight the bad guys. It raises some questions regarding their relationship dynamics. Was he really offended that she ‘stood him up’? Or was he jealous because she went adventuring without him? Or is he put off by strong women coming into their own? At any rate Lydda never teamed up with Tasmia again.

The couple seek adventure within and without the Legion as well, battling Dominators on Kathoon, and famously traveling back in time to the 2Oth century for an extended stay. (Encountering Rokk’s distant ancestor, ‘Krinnski’ and discovering the Byrne Superman.) It is almost as if, having little else in common than super-heroing, Rokk and Lydda like to spice up their relationship with some adrenaline-junkie adventuring.

By 5YL, they are married, Lydda becoming a ‘war bride’. Rokk has plenty of adventuring opportunities. He goes to war, loses his powers at Venado Bay, and goes a little nuts trying to get them back. He also attempts to revitalize and re-invent the Legion with old friends.

Around this time, the couple move around between Kathoon, Braal, and Talus, finally settling on Winath. Lydda seems generally unhappy during this period, specifically stating that she can't wait to get off Braal. But Lydda is happy at last on Lightning Ring Farms, and is occupied with the adventure that is little Pol Krinn II-- which, depending on how long it takes for him to develop regular sleep patterns, could be really quite challenging. (With an extensive chosen family on Winath, Lydda ought to find plenty of support, even with Rokk off-planet.)

I expect Rokk and Lydda’s relationship is enduring and stable, and will remain so for a long time. (In one timeline, Rokk becomes the Time Trapper, so maybe for a very, very long time) They may have ups and downs along the way, sometimes being closer physically and emotionally, sometimes taking one another a little too much for granted. There may be time apart, separations of light-years. There may be long evenings where they are together-but-separate, but with little conversation or personal interaction. But any time they need to spice up their marriage, all they need is a quick trip in a time bubble, or to find a new mystery to solve, or to find some old injustice to repair. It is literally adrenalin-fueled excitement that keeps the excitement in their marriage.

Interesting. I was in college, a hundred miles away from the nearest comic store, during the whole 5YL thing, and thanks to the new 'direct market' couldn't get comics at supermarkets or convenience stores like when I was in high school, so this later stuff with them being married and living on Winath is all new to me.

IMO, Lydda started out with some unhealthy / unrealistic goals. In the Adventure stories of the Subs a decade or so ago, Lydda came across as very competent, and kind of the heart (and common sense...) of the team, while Brek seemed more prone to sulking and grousing, than actually leading (the others, except for Stone Boy, seemed impulsive and enthusiastic, and not terribly practical, kind of forcing Lydda into a 'team mom' role, it felt like, particularly the bit with Time Sphere shenanigans, which, IIRC, Fire Lad in particular kept impulsively pushing buttons or Chlorophyll Kid bumping into things...). I didn't entirely love that look for Brek, but did find it neat the Lydda might have really come into her own as a Sub, and sort of found more to like about this life than 'Imma go to Earth and marry that cute magnoball champion / teen heart-throb-turned-Legionnaire from Braal!'

Maybe Rokk didn't return an interest in Lydda until she had blossomed on her own in the Subs, and was able to meet him on more equal ground than just 'fangirl who had my poster on her wall when I was a magnoball champ,' and more like 'other competent hero in her own right, with some experience at the 'herding cats' part of being on a hero team with enthusiastic but untrained young people...'

In the last retroboot, it seemed like Lydda was a full Legionnaire, recently 'on again' with Rokk, and did team regularly with Shadow Lass (to the point that Phantom Girl even got a little snarky about Shady going off and doing new things with new people), so whatever went on earlier seems to have been resolved.

In my fanon, Rokk leaves to teach / co-headmaster at Legion Academy with Chuck and Lu, but remains married to Lydda, who remains an active Legionnaire. They live in the same town, and have flight rings, so it's not even a long-distance relationship, they can easily share quarters together, but Lydda is more than strong and independent enough to not need 'her boyfriend' to be on the team, any longer, and is a Legionnaire because she wants to be a Legionnaire, not because of boy-drama. And Rokk prefers it that way, that they are together as equals, and she's not just hitching her wagon to his star, but following her own dreams, for her own reasons.

nice readings of their relationship, guys.

I will just add my memory of End of an Era, where Time Trapper-Rokk keeps Lydda from fading long enough, for adult Rokk to say one last goodbye. The implication was that Lydda would have faded much earlier, as she was almost the last Legionnaire without a doppelganger left when she did

oh yay, we're doing Cos and Lydda!

I like the idea of Lydda as the Subs den mother, I tend to see her as sort of a big sister myself. I also like the idea that initially her attraction to Cos was immature and a bit stalkerish but she matured out of that. It strikes me that when they broke up for a while in the retroboot it was probably actually really necessary character development for her and gave them more of an equal footing and strengthened their relationship once they got back together again. They definitely seemed very stable in the 5YL period!

From Rokk's perspective, I wonder if it was actually good for him to have a partner who wasn't on the same team for such a long time...there have been times he's had such a dominating presence and personality in the team that I feel like it would have led to friction if Lydda had joined the team when they were kids (like that story that Klar mentioned where he got his nose out of joint because she and Shady were teaming up on their own). Going back to 5YL again, I do get the impression that Rokk had much more appreciation for her there than in other depictions - I see it as him maybe realising how much she means to him after having lost so much (his mum and brother, Venado Bay...).

I also thought that 5YL portrayed their relationship as strong and positive. As for Lydda being happy to leave Braal, it didn't seem a particularly nice place to live under the Imskian occupation, and Rokk seemed even more keen to get Lydda out of that situation than Lydda was.

I also seem to remember a line form one of their shared adventures where Lydda commented on how she used to moon over Rokk and auditioned just to get close to him, and Rokk's response was something like "which was a very silly reason to begin what has been an exemplary career".

Their relationship was well-balanced in 5YL; Lydda had matured and provided the strength Rokk needed after his war injuries. Before that, she seemed to be the emotionally weaker one, one who would always defer to him. I remember one scene when they were mobbed by fans and she was almost in tears - the delicate little lady. Maybe that's what Rokk wanted at that point, but it wasn't going to cut in on post-war Braal. Lydda was quite capable with the Subs and her partnership with Shadow Lass was effective. She likely could have survived on her own on Braal, although she must have welcomed the support of the others on Winath; she seemed particularly keen to get off the planet and reconnect with the Legion for Rokk's sake. I do wonder what it was like for her to be the fourth person when the three founders got together; she and Imra didn't form much of a relationship.

The retroboot was a big step backward in the portrayal of their relationship. She survived the break-up (or the casting off) as Rokk went down the self-pity trip of giving up his life for the Legion. It's a personal thing, since I'm no great fan of Cosmic Boy, but she should have found somebody else once she went to the Academy; she was doing just fine on her own, but Garth and Imra had some fixation about getting them back together.

Garth and Imra have survived as a couple through various iterations of the Legion; not so with Rokk and Lydda. There's something solid and appealing about the Ranzz relationship that's lacking for the Krinns.

As someone who did self-destructive things to get over a breakup, I certainly wish Lydda had just moved on from Cos after he dumped her!

on the other hand, I don't recall her pining for him that much.

5YL Rokk/Lydda was the healthiest iteration for sure!

Great analysis!

I'm usually not fond of "super-couples" in fiction... the couple that absolutely HAS to be together... but I think Imra+Garth is the only essential Legion couple that has to be present in any incarnation, at least on some point. Basically tradition at this point.

Outside of them, while it's probably an unpopular opinion I really enjoyed how the Reboot didn't recreate ALL the original couples.
Tasmia+Mon was one of the best written couples of the original timeline (I look forward to your analysis, there's a lot of depth there)... but Shady lost many chances to shine because too often she was under Mon-El's shadow. Pun intended.


That's a neat idea, but more realistically it's the old "all people from the future are far smarter than us" trope.


I also got the impression she's not particularly close to her side of the family, as they BARELY get mentioned at all.


They're basically the Legion's mom and dad.

There's also the fact that while Jim Shooter is a good writer that has written a few masterpieces, thare are two things he's absolutely dreadful writing: one is comedy and the other is romance. Ever read his issues of Dazzler? Please don't.

That's a good point. Virtually all Legionnaires are to some extent unusual for their home planet, even those who come from planets where everyone has powers.
Also the fact that nearly everyone is a twin on Winath gets surprisingly little mention for the longest time. From a modern perspective it's weird to see that when Saturn Girl is pregnant she mentions how she forgot that twins are common on Winath, but it does make sense: as late as the early Volume 3 issues, it's been barely mentioned for decades.

I think the reasons are pretty simple: both Imra and Garth are in the team from the start, and Lydda isn't. It's MUCH easier to expand the characterization of a member of the regular cast than someone from the outside, especially in a book with a very large cast.
The solution would be to make Lydda a regular Legionnaire, but I'm not too fond of the idea... yeah she's a good character and an effective hero, but you would have to negate her main gimmick: if her weakness to sunlight never comes into play, she's just super-strong. Which is not a particularly rare power in the Legion.

Let's face it, Cosmic Boy wasn't a particularly deep character for the longest time. He was fine in the Shooter era, but until you get to volume 3 he was definitely the least interesting founder IMHO.
Luckily he got MUCH better.

Oh I won't - I actually don't think of him as that great a writer in the more recent age (since the 90s basically). I remember picking up a new book from him back in the 90s because of his rep as one of THE Legion creators (I was new to the Legion with the reboot). It was a great concept, badly written.

Then there's his threeboot run....

completely agree with this one, we have enough super-strength types. also not a fan of always having Tasmia and Lydda together all the time... cuts the options and the variety

I may be in the minority, but I really liked the idea of Lydda having full Kryptonian-class powers, as implied in the zany old men from Throon story. Still not really unique, but more useful.

Anyway, it would make a lot of sense if she operated as a solo "Avenger of the night" type character, or even just as planetary champion of Kathoon, but she really doesn't work great as a member of the Legion (or even the Subs, really).

I've said lots of times that I think Lydda and Tasmia have be like a Fire & Ice inseparable buddies kind of relationship simply because their powers work so well together (vs the Tasmia/Tinya relationship we ended up with because they were both defined by their boyfriends).

On the one hand, I totally agree that Lydda's power is kind of dull, even on a team that takes people like Blok or Monstress (a small subset of Mon-El or Superboy's powers!) or even joke-y characters like Matter-Eater Lad or Bouncing Boy (and yet, magically, manages to make them cool!).

On the other hand, the towering beehive destroys my sense of objectivity, and I love her!

I am amused that she was the only post-Wildfire character to make it into the Threeboot Legion. No Dawnstar, no Blok, no Tellus, no Chameleon Girl, but hey, there's Night Girl! (Polar Boy and White Witch kinda/sorta made it into the setting, if not onto the team itself...)

hah that is a good point, I wonder if Lydda was specifically chosen to highlight the Reservist "program", as she, Turtle and Sizzle all had drawbacks that stopped them from becoming full active Legionnaires

#3: Lightning Lass (Ayla Ranzz), Shrinking Violet (Salu Digby), Timber Wolf (Brin Londo), Duplicate Boy (Ord Quelu / Quelu Ord)

In the 21st century, we have the concept of white-brown-black-red-yellow skin color signifying race, and a variety of ethnicities. But by the 31st century the varieties of mankind have expanded to include populations with various manifestations of the metagene!

I use this as a parallel to probable the evolution of human sexuality and gender identification a thousand years from now. The metaphorical Rainbow of Romance will most likely have metaphorically expanded into the infrared and ultraviolet, if not x-rays and microwaves. Including Philip Jose Farmer’s ‘Rishathra’.

My point being (and I do have a point), I do not feel qualified to opine upon whether young Ayla or Salu was closeted, or bi, or some other variety of the rainbow, because it is probable those terms have little meaning on most worlds in the 31st century.

Salu was, from the beginning, portrayed as a quiet, shy, introverted Shrinking Violet. This is good! Introverts can be heroes too, just like fat kids! Salu uses her powers primarily for espionage and defense… unless the chips are down, when she shines in a crisis.

Duplicate Boy-- I’m going to call him Ord because Quelu just sounds like a surname to me-- is a fine match for Salu. Like her, he has some self-esteem issues, despite being one of the most potentially powerful characters in the Universe. He lets the other Lallorians tell him how to use his powers, particularly Evolvo Lad. And a good thing, too, because when he uses his powers impulsively he often screws up, usually only duplicating his opponent’s powers, and often forgetting to add “and invulnerability”. I sometimes say that Ord is ‘dumb as a rock’, which is of course hyperbole, but he does lack imagination-- and substitutes bluster for confidence.

Salu sometimes considers herself one of the weakest Legionnaires, so it’s nice to have a super-super-powerful boyfriend to watch over her. And that watching-over is quite literal: their long-distance relationship is tough on her (Lallor at one point is said to be in a different galaxy, although the author may have meant star system). She pretty much has to wait for Ord to show up when he decides to show up. But for Ord, long distance is no distance at all. He can teleport to Salu any time he likes, and keeps tabs on her with telescopic vision or other super-senses. As an example, when Salu goes on a friendly date with Matter-Eater Lad, Ord shows up all jealous and outraged.

(cue Rockwell’s “(I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me”)

Ord considers Salu his girlfriend, with an emphasis on his. When he observes Colossal Boy and Yera/Shrinking Violet together, he flies into a jealous rage, going in for a beatdown of Gim, until he realizes this is not the real Salu, and flies away without so much as a “Sorry, Gim”.

Speaking of which, Salu’s kidnapping and imprisonment for weeks or months is an absolute turning point in her story. We could talk about PTSD, but for this discussion, it has massive implications for her relationships. I don’t think her personality really changes; she is still an introvert, but she no longer feels she must depend on others for support. In fact, she is sure that she cannot. She blames others for her plight, and somewhat justly. Particularly Micro Lad, Yera, and Duplicate Boy, but also all her friends in the Legion. She becomes more aggressively independent, and, in accordance with her tendency towards introversion, something of a loner. In 5YL, she joins the military, winning a purple heart by losing a leg and an eye. She also breaks up with Ord, with some pretty good reason. During their relationship, she saw him as her protector, but when he learned Yera was an imposter, he just… walked away

Realistically, the Legion had been up to some pretty off-the-wall hijinks in the past, and Ord might be forgiven for thinking Salu was somewhere deep undercover, and Yera was covering for her with her knowledge.

Ord takes the breakup very badly, as explicitly mentioned by his Lallorian teammates. It affects every aspect of his life; he even begins to lose control of his super-abilities. Contrariwise, Salu, from her perspective, is well rid of him.

A quick note that Salu and Ord were married in the Adult Legion flash-forward, and living on Lallor, so events obviously went down differently in that timeline.

Ayla is the Step-Up Girl. When Mekt leaves Winath to pursue his nefarious activities, and
Garth leaves Winath to go after them, Ayla stays behind to take care of the family farm. (In most chronologies, the Ranzz siblings are orphans) When a replacement was needed for Lightning Lad in the Legion, Ayla took care of closing down the farm, arranging for it to lay fallow for years, and went to take his place in the Legion. After Garth revived, and the Legion was in need of anti-gravity powers rather than another lightning caster, Ayla filled that role with equanimity. (Although I have some harsh thoughts about Dream Girl’s interference without Ayla’s permission) Lightning or anti-gravity, her power was not a huge part of her identity, although when her electrical connection was restored, it was immensely useful in confronting Mekt. Family is as important to Ayla as it is to Garth, and she has what would be called in the 19th century a “maternal instinct”-- she likes to take care of things.

Brin Londo-- then known as Lone Wolf-- was someone in need of a lot of care. In their first meeting, Brin rescues Ayla-- and then Ayla rescues Brin. This would become a recurring pattern in their relationship. In particular, Ayla uses some tough love to help Brin break free from his addiction to ‘Lotus Fruit’, and helps him through the changes he experiences as the zuunium serum transforms him into a more feral creature.

However, when Ayla needed to leave the Legion, Brin would not go with her. Understandable, perhaps-- the Legion was the only home he had left. When she eventually returned, as Lightning Lass again, she made clear that their relationship would resume only on a professional level. This is one of the problems of dating co-workers. It took a couple of lightning bolts to shock Brin into realizing it was really over.

Once again, Brin takes the breakup much harder than Ayla. There are certain parallels between Timber Wolf and Duplicate Boy, personality-wise.

Again, note that Brin and Ayla are married in the Adult Legion flash-forward, with Ayla calling herself Light Lady, an indication she never regained her lightning powers. They had three children: Brin, Bran, and Loni. Different timelines, different events.

But Ayla is already beginning to develop a relationship with Salu. They are well-suited to each other. Ayla’s Step Up and Be There personality is just what Salu needs. It may be natural for Ayla to take on a caring, compassionate role: she is Garth’s twin sister, and Shrinking Violet is presumably a couple of years younger than the Founders.

Yet as the relationship develops in 5YL it is Salu who becomes the more dominant personality. Hardened by war, the relationship progresses on her terms. We see several panels of Ayla and Salu (Ayla calls her Vi) in intimate conversation. Salu does not want to be dependent on anyone again. But she is not okay. She needs someone to look after her. Ayla is more than willing to be that someone. But they go slowly. Salu needs to learn to trust again. With all her trauma, physical and psychological she needs to believe she is worthy of love.

And…

Well, in 5YL, the couple ends up on Lightning Ring Farms on Winath, with Garth and Imra (and Garridan and Graym and Dorrit and Dacey and Mekt and Rokk and Lydda and Pol).

They are still together when the Universe resets in the Retroboot, sans trauma. Salu is taking Ayla to Imsk for the holidays. Unless I have missed something, we have yet to see Lightning Lass and Shrinking Violet nuptials. But as a couple, they seem to me to have a My-Spouse-Is-My-Best-Friend vibe.

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There is a lot of material here for discussion, so I am not going to publish my thoughts on Triplicate Girl / Duo Damsel / Duplicate Woman and Bouncing Boy for two more weeks.

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Good analysis of the four characters. Unfortunately both of the guys do come across as a bit too shallow to fill the supporting role in a relationship.

There is a telling scene in 5YL LSH v4 #39 just after the destruction of the Earth when Salu is depressed and wondering about the point of it all while Ayla tries to comfort her. Salu finds Ayla's attempts to be upbeat irritating and verbally lashes out at her which leads to a reconciling conversation about how they need each other and both need the other to be strong sometimes.

Agreed with all of the above! And that 5YL scene you mentioned with Vi and Ayla is a favourite of mine

I have more sympathy for Brin than Ord...Ord comes across as just kind of a self-centred idiot, whereas 5YL really worked at showing how much trauma Brin's dad put him through. I don't think Ayla came off looking particularly good when she instantly assumed the worst about Brin and Imra on that asteroid, or again when she dumped him for not instantly leaving the Legion for her.

Brin's dad treated him as a science experiment, he didn't even think he was human for a while, and then there's that time Tyr abducted him for months and messed with his head more. He is very emotionally immature, but I think he's got 100% justified reason to be that way and it's honestly impressive that he's so well adjusted all things considered. The Legion is really the closest he has to family and stability, and it was selfish of Ayla to just expect him to give that up without any kind of discussion.

I would have liked to see more of the Sensor Girl/Timber Wolf-led Legion tbh...partially because it would hopefully have meant that Levitz would stop writing him like he had the mental capacity of someone who's been huffing paint, but also because I think there is potential to explore a closer friendship (or more) between Brin and Jeckie with their connection through Val.

very nice write-up, Klar

I like how you described Vi's turn: indeed, she became fiercely independent because she felt she could not rely on anyone... and Ayla helped her wit h that, by stepping up. And I think Vi gave something back, Vi would step up too - making Ayla much happier with her than with Brin

like with raz, and like you mention Klar, I do have some more sympathy for Brin than for Ord. Brin, somewhat understandably, had been through a lot with his dad etc., and so I always felt the Legion was his rock. I also felt that Ayla should have been more understanding of Brin's reluctance to simply leave the Legion like that (I think she gave him at most a day to think about it?)

well, looking back I don't think the relationship was healthy for either Ayla or Brin.

as for Ord...yeah. I guess they had to make him an idiot, to balance out his huge power potential!

Great assessment of this Klar, and I agree completely with stile, raz and Ibby.

Ord's a jerk full stop. I'm glad they didn't really bring him back for the reboot.

But I've always kind of felt that Vi pre abduction vs Post are essentially different characters. Klar, your write up here has helped bridge those to be closer together. And yes, Ayla and Vi haven't even kissed on panel, let alone be married!

I did feel more for Brin, and I always felt like the ultimatum that she gave to him was to explicitly serve as a pretext to break up; she well knew what Brin would do before she asked him to come with her, IMO.

I admit that I have given Timber Wolf short shrift.

The poor thing has been through a lot.

I recall, on at least two occasions, Ayla used her powers on him: once her anti-gravity powers, and once her electrocution abilities. Both in anger, and, IIRC, having to do with her taking a break from the Legion, and breaking up with him.

So in the end, this was an abusive relationship.

The fact that Brin has high damage resistance is irrelevant.

And when we say he went through a lot:

>> Experimented on by his father
>> Memory wiped by Karth Arn
>> Used as human bait (along with Chemical King) by the Legion to capture Tarik the Mute
>> Addicted to a powerful psychotropic drug
>> Mutated by Zuunium radiation (and Dave Cockrum) into a more feral form
>> Kidnapped by Tyr, held prisoner for months, brainwashed again, almost killed by Tyr’s semi-sentient arm-gun
>> Spends time in prison while searching for Mekt with Ayla
>> Marooned on an asteroid with Regina George Saturn Girl
>> Mutated again by Zuunium radiation, he assumes his ‘Furball’ form and mental state

And Brin remains something of a ‘Lone Wolf’ throughout. He does not seem to have a lot of friends in the Legion. Karate Kid shows gratitude for Timber Wolf’s help in protecting Projectra from the ‘pain plague’. This gratitude expresses itself as a trip to Lythyl, one of the most dangerous planets in the Galaxy.

Karate Kid does leave Brin all the offworld assets of Orando in his will, making Brin possibly wealthier than R.J.Brande.

And the lone wolf finally finds a friend in Blok.

In 5YL, Brin is transported to the 2Oth century, mutates into yet another animalistic form, and goes off to live in Gorilla City. I’m not sure if this is an improvement in his status or not.

I am tempted to re-define Ayla’s connection with Brin as a loving, caring owner of a difficult, traumatized pet. Until she finally experiences ‘donor fatigue’ with his inability to advance, and the relationship goes bad.

I think your last sentence really nails the relationship.

I really enjoyed his friendship with Blok, maybe because they had such similar experiences.

The points you have all made above of the challenges Brin has faced make a lot of sense.

How his character is portrayed varies over the years, because of different writers but we could consider it as changes in how he views the team and the world and trying to fit in.

For example during the Dark Man storyline he works effectively as a lone agent and the text around it suggests he prefers it that way. Although his approach gets a reprimand from then leader Garth, he is a major player in bringing down the Dark Man when much of the rest of the Legion has been taken out. In the Levitz v3 era he is more trying to fit in and almost playing the fool. He is still effective but his role is downplayed by both himself and his teammates. Perhaps this is him trying to figure out for himself how best to reconcile his independent nature and his desire to be part of something as well. He tried being independent and now he is trying being a bit of a clown.

Both approaches suggest a lack of maturity but given his experiences that could be understandable.

I was just thinking, based on the analysis in this thread, that Brin would perhaps be one of the ideal Legionnaires to have a solo run, both in abilities and temperament. Most of the other Legionnaires feel better integrated to the team, so that if there was a solo about 'Tasmia Mallor, Warlord of Talokk VIII,' it would sort of beg the question of where Mon is, are they on a break? Can / will she just call him when the going gets rough, and does it just seem like her ego's writing checks her bad-metaphor-can't-cash when things do get rough and she *doesn't*? With Brin, there's not really anyone he'd be *inclined* to call, it wouldn't feel organic for him to not try and tough out the situation he finds himself in, Lone Wolf style.

And for all his lack of really 'getting overhimself' or 'putting in the work,' I am also reminded of a scene from Great Darkness Saga where Darkseid subjects the various Legionnaires to 'their worst fears,' and others like Dreamy or Imra are devastated by his psychic attack and Brin, who seems to be 'losing his humanity' and being revealed as a robot is all like, 'Huh?' And while, yes, that could be seen as 'wow, he's such a dim bulb that he's not even falling for the psychic attack,' it also suggests that he's really, really *OVER* this whole 'used to think I was a robot' thing, and was genuinely more puzzled than 'terrified' by the 'your worst fear' attack.

First of all I wanna say that I agree with you on Brin being ideal for a solo series, although these days it would just be Wolverine-lite which sucks....I don't wanna see him tracking people down with his nose and clawing things, let him have his original powers again boooo

(also I would be down for a mini-series of Shady from pre-Legion days now that you bring her up! I never really got into Umbra but Shady was one of my favourite Legionnaires back in the day...and I am looking forward to when we get up to Shady/Mon-El in the thread as well!)


My take on this is that in spite of all the crap he's been through (or maybe because of it!), Brin Londo seems to have a really solid idea of who he is as a person...he goes through these crazy transformations or torturous experiences or whatever, and it damages his ability to socialise normally but you never really see him sitting on a rooftop somewhere having existential angst about what kind of man he is.

So while it may well be that his greatest fear is to go back to that time when Karth Arn had him thinking he's an android, Darkseid's illusion didn't work because Brin's sense of self is so strong that he knew straight away it wasn't real because yeah okay he's got a metal leg now, but he doesn't feel any different.

I don't think that contradicts the thing I said before about him not having much emotional intelligence....I know plenty of people in real life who get through trauma by just not having the capacity for nuance. A bad thing happened, they were sad, they moved on. Those people suck at interpersonal relationships too

Both Brin and Ayla strike me as damaged people, and it's no surprise that they were a couple but it didn't work out.

Ayla, the fraternal twin of hotshot Garth living in the shadow of weird sociopathic loner big brother Mekt, was always going to have issues about control and being heard as a kid in my head-canon.

Ayla, to my thinking, grew up in the shadow of two domineering brothers, as part of the freak family that had a singleton. She coped by being a people pleaser and a bit manipulative to cover for her insecurities. As she was surrounded by clearly damaged siblings, her nature was to try to 'fix' things so there's harmony. A childish response to people not acting in a way you want or expect.

Her first appearance she disguised herself as Garth, rather than just approach the team and say "hi, I can zap lightning too." She was too immature to realise how icky that really was - thankfully, so where her teammates. She then has that ability taken away without her consent and replaced with a far more passive power set and doesn't seem to mind. She was clearly not confident. That's not to say she isn't kind and loving too, as she clearly is, but her doubts bring out the desperate side to her character. Being amongst Legionnaires who didn't see her as the quiet one from the weird family and treated her as a peer must have been liberating.

Later on, Ayla falls for Brin, who is obviously troubled but she thinks that somehow she can 'fix' him - where she my child I'd be screaming "no, love, he's a broken toy, put him back in the box! and if you must pick, pick another" While she does support Brin through drug addiction and brainwashing, she also flirts with Ultra Boy when they are rebuilding their HQ, as it's nice when you doubt yourself if someone gives you validation. But then, a short while later, she punishes Brin for comforting her sister-in-law when they think they are goners. To me, her leaving Brin was manipulative and self-serving - "I've decided that I'm going to go and you can follow me to go live with my family or stay here where you actually know people and have built a life. And we're not going to discuss it or look for compromises either." - seriously, that's how I read her ultimatum. Well done Brin for saying no. Her control issues were rampant at that point as her insecurities took charge after Darkseid scared her. Her later return, and anger at Brin read like schoolyard bullying to me.

Her relationship with Vi was an attempt at 'fixing' someone again. At least Vi was mature enough to have boundaries and just enjoy the positives that Ayla brings to a relationship, and I think that brought out the best in Ayla too.

Meanwhile, Brin, in my head-canon, is the lonely boy with ADHD who never had human friends that was abused by his father and the only real friend he had - Karth Arn, an android.

He reminds me of teenagers I've taught who only socialise via their PSP so don't know about social nuances. It isn't really anything that is wrong, just awkward sometimes. As a child he was brought up in a remote place by a just crazy father and androids built to serve. His father experimented on him, the androids tried to take control of him... yeah, he's a mess and will be lacking in social skills after that. The Legion are lucky he didn't go full psycho. Instead, for a while, he threw himself into the Academy, then full membership. He would have competed with Val, Jo and Gim for the alpha-beta male spot on the group probably but his lack of social skills probably kept him down in the rankings, though I doubted if he minded really as he finally had friends! Being in a relationship with Ayla must have seemed like the icing on the cake, initially. Though, remember this is a kid who didn't have loving role models, so you know it'll be stormy. I wonder if his taste for lotus fruit came from a need to fill that void in him that was left from his childhood. I imagine that after a while, listening Ayla going on about her family must have opened up some very recently healed wounds for him. Thankfully, he broke that addiction.

Then Tyr kidnapped and brainwashed him, and almost had him kill the President of Earth. Surprisingly, that wasn't enough to send the already vulnerable Brin a bit loopy. It probably shook him quite badly as he realised his friends weren't looking for him in those six months though - this was his new family, after all. He did though enjoy more 'lone-time' - haha most teenage boys do. Ahem.... he got through that and despite a few snarly moments, was a functioning member of the team and even made friends with Blok, a former assassin that had also been brainwashed and that the snooty 'in-crowd' probably also looked down on. After Ayla left he threw himself into his work, and was kind of clever enough not to go chasing after her in his desperation, instead he hired a PI to confirm where she was. As he never got the chance to appear on her farm and announce he missed her, his big reveal about his feelings didn't happen. Instead, Ayla returned and so he tried a more low-key approach, and got zapped for it.

Thankfully, he found a bit of happiness in Marleo Tao instead - weird as it was, it was good to see he got over Ayla without nursing a bruised ego. In the 5YL stories, he had succumbed to the Zuunian poisoning and mutated even more, and rather than run away to live out his days in a remote forest, he joined Jo after the team split. And even though most of the team didn't recognise him, he stood by them - perhaps he was embarrassed, though who knows?

At the start I said they strike me as damaged people and I think that's part of the reason I like them. They both have character flaws that, in real life would bug me enormously, though through reading about their dealing with it in digest format I cheer them on, understanding their trips and falls as they go,

Really good comments, all. Harbi, I like your comment about Ayla, almost like she is the middle child. (Maybe technically she is?)

re Ayla's ultimatum to Brin, I also seem to recall her being all "I was there for you all the time, but you were never there for me when I decided to leave!" and it struck me indeed as selfish, because I could not remember an instance when Brin demanded Ayla do something like that.

(although, I do recall her putting herself in danger to rid Brin of his lotus fruit addiction... but still - Brin never gave Ayla such an ultimatum like the one she gave him!)

Just an aside, Brin's friendship with Blok always amused me, since I was totally that unpopular kid who hung out alone, and when a new student transferred in, I had a friend, ever so briefly, before they made *other* friends and discovered that I was social kryptonite.

So Brin glomming onto 'the new guy (who hasn't been warned about me yet)' was totally relatable, to me.

I had very similar experiences back in the day.

Ibby, I think selfish is the exact correct word here. I always chalked it up to looking for an excuse out of the relationship, but selfishness is more clearly what it is.

thanks GL credits to raz for first using the word "selfish" to describe it!

#4: Bouncing Boy (Chuck Taine) and Duo Damsel (Luornu Durgo)

Confession: Chuck and Lu are my absolute favorite Legion couple of all time. There may be some favoritism in this review. So there.

TOS Charles Foster Taine is naturally optimistic, cheerful, and full of self-deprecating humor. He is also a go-getter, ready to fight for his position on any mission. He is also chronically underappreciated and underestimated.

I am talking about personalities and relationships here, but I feel I want to take an aside on Chuck’s powers.

Bouncing Boy (along with Matter-Eater Lad) are regularly on internet lists of ‘most useless super-powers’. However, as a street-level fighter, Bouncing Boy is a pretty formidable opponent. This long before his Bendis power-up to absurd levels. I estimate Silver-age Bouncing Boy weighed perhaps 250#, perhaps 350# as a thirtysomething. The terminal velocity for a human is around 120mph, so I would take that as his maximum speed. His collisions are perfectly elastic, transferring twice the expected energy to his target. Getting hit by Bouncing Boy at full speed would be equivalent to getting hit by a Volkswagen moving at 35mph. So, yeah, ouch. Chuck suffers no damage in these collisions when ‘inflated’, not even discomfort. He describes his inflated form as ‘spongy’ and ‘elastic’. Some have compared him to a rubber ball, but I rather think of him as a giant ‘superball’. (the Wham-O toy from the sixties, if you remember that. “5O,OOO pounds of compressed energy”, the ads said.)
So essentially Chuck’s power is to hit pretty hard, from an unexpected angle, and take no damage himself. [i]Relatively weak, compared to many in the Legion, but not ‘silly’ or ‘useless’.[/i]

Now that I’ve got that out of my system.

I have seen comments from the Negative Fandom Zone to the effect: “How can such a fat schlub like Bouncing Boy end up with such a smokin’-hot babe like Duo Damsel.”

To which I reply: Pfaaaaahh.

The boy is a catch.

Chuck is competent. Unless you are also a former employee of the Accounting and Auditing industry, you have no idea what a high compliment that is.

He has faced opponents more powerful than himself, including a couple of the Wanderers, easily taking down Dartalg with the famous line, “You goofed, Darty! Your dart barely pricked me! My skin isn’t balloon-thin… and there’s plenty of muscle under it!”

He holds his own against Monster Master and his Earthquake Beast. He defeats the Wild Huntsman solo-- although admittedly not the most powerful member of the Devil’s Dozen. He also takes down Adam Orion, the inferior offspring of Otto Orion the Hunter. He and Duo Damsel even take down Kantuu the Djinn, who previously was only defeated by the Guardians.

Chuck is a real hero. He works hard to improve his powers, becoming an intuitive expert in spatial geometry. He cares about people. He empathizes. He counsels one group of anonymous Legion rejects to never give up on their dreams-- possibly bad advice, as we never see any of them ever again. But Chuck can’t help it. It's the way he is. But I can’t help but feel sorry for the kid in brown, who we never see again


Later, when Chuck and Lu take over as Legion Academy instructors they really shine, both encouraging their students and pushing them to test their limits.

o o o o

Despite the pseudo-bigamy aspect of their relationship, which may stimulate the more salacious imagination, Luornu seems to me a simple, down-home Mary-Anne country-girl type.

She does set her sights pretty high: her first crush-- as Triplicate Girl-- is on the Boy of Steel himself, although, she reflects, she knows who he will marry in his future.

It is after she loses a third of herself to Computo that she begins becoming close to Chuck. We see the origins of their relationship off-panel, but it is reasonable to assume that it is Chuck’s empathy for her loss-- which neither she, nor her other Legion companions seem to acknowledge. (We do not even know how her family, or greater Carggg itself, react to her disability.)

Chuck is the one to help Luronu during her Lu / Lelith personality split, deducing that Nam’Lor is literally not good for her. (I like to imagine that in later years the Taine family kept in contact with the ‘Lors family: Nam, his wife Ydal, their son Yob, and daughter Ssal.)

At any rate, when Chuck loses his powers YET AGAIN he decides to make the best of it and leave the Legion-- with Luornu as his bride. The first Legionnaires to be married, their wedding on Mars is spectacular, full of cameos and with a minor subplot involving Starfinger. This is not the last time Luornu would be kidnapped.

We really see how compatible the Durgo-Taines are after their marriage. Chuck jokes about his ‘two favorite wives’, Luornu tosses her husband around like a beach ball. They show their competence as retired Legionnaires, becoming pillars of the community on Wondil IX.

One of my favorite vignettes is when they defeat the dreaded Wondilixian ‘ice dragon’, which is really only a harmless, semi-telepathic elasomorphic creature, something like a big Protean snowball.

Their capabilities in running the Academy are well known. Not only are they great teachers, they are able to place Academy graduates, if not in the Legion, then in some other useful position.

Luornu, like her husband, has relatively weak powers, being able to do little more than two ordinary women could do. (Although she has been shown as a formidable hand-to-hand combatant in some other iterations. Trijitsu, I believe it is called. Although in the case of Duo Damsel would it be Dijitsu? Bijitsu? Two Chi Chuan?)

https://youtu.be/MI-AX2AD5Zo?t=11

When Chuck and Luornu return from their third honeymoon Luornu;s Duplicate Damsel / Duplicate Girl / Duplicate Woman ability seems more like a super-power and less like a bedroom kink. But the Taines’ loving and flirtatious relationship remains unchanged.

One thing that was never really addressed, to my knowledge, is how much Duo Damsel’s disability affects her relationship in the Cargggan community. On the one hand one would hope that accommodations would be made. (People are very kind when I roam around town in my electric wheelchair.) On the other hand, we know that triplicating in Cargggan culture is governed by certain obscure rules of etiquette, social norms, and superstition. Just exactly what those are, we are not explicitly told. Feel free to speculate.

I seem to remember that there is a panel somewhere where Luornu, down to one body, flirts with Colossal Boy in a hot tub. This is so uncharacteristic of her that I head-canon it away by explaining that it is just Yera, flirting again. On the other hand, Lu has had her share of trauma in the Legion as much as anyone else, which can also explain uncharacteristic behaviour. As can the whims of the ever-changing stable of writers.

I personally see Chuck and Lu together as an unbeatable combination. Their relationship is built on mutual trust, respect, support, cooperation, humor, and, of course, love.

Of all the Legion couples, this is the one I would most like to invite me over for dinner.

Well, it appears that ChatGPT has made these essays entirely superfluous.
After I finished this one, I prompted the program with “Analyze the dynamics of the marriage relationship between Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel”.
=======================================================================

ChatGPT:
As of my last update in September 2021, Bouncing Boy (real name: Chuck Taine) and Duo Damsel (real name: Luornu Durgo Taine) are characters from DC Comics' Legion of Super-Heroes, and they have a significant romantic relationship in the comic book canon. Here's an analysis of the dynamics of their marriage relationship based on their history in the comics:

Love and Support: Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel share a deep and genuine love for each other. Their relationship has been portrayed as one of mutual respect and support. They have faced numerous challenges together, both as individuals and as members of the Legion, and their strong bond has helped them overcome these obstacles.

Teamwork and Partnership: As members of the Legion of Super-Heroes, Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel often work side by side in various missions and adventures. Their partnership extends beyond just their personal relationship, and they have proven to be a formidable team on the battlefield.

Emotional Connection: Throughout the comics, Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel's relationship has been characterized by a deep emotional connection. They understand each other's strengths and vulnerabilities, and they provide emotional support when one of them faces challenges or doubts.

Shared Identity and Power: Both characters possess unique superpowers that define their superhero personas. Bouncing Boy has the ability to inflate his body and bounce like a ball, while Duo Damsel can split into three identical bodies. Their shared life as superheroes with extraordinary abilities adds an extra layer of understanding and camaraderie to their marriage.

Challenges and Growth: Like any relationship, Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel's marriage has faced its share of challenges. However, they have often used these difficulties as opportunities for growth and development, both as individuals and as a couple.

Shared Purpose: Being members of the Legion of Super-Heroes means that Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel have a shared purpose and mission. This common goal can strengthen their bond and sense of identity as a couple.

It's important to note that the dynamics of any fictional relationship can change over time, as different writers and storylines shape the characters' journeys. For the most accurate and up-to-date analysis, it's best to refer to the latest issues and story arcs of the Legion of Super-Heroes comics.
=======================================================================

As I recall, there's speculation that Kid in Brown is actually Matter-Eater Lad.

It would've been hilarious if he'd just shower up in the background of tryouts from then on!

Great analysis!
Probably one of the reasons why Bouncing Boy's power is considered a joke is that he's in a team with people who are ridiculously overpowered. But yeah, unless we're talking Kryptonian-level punches I always assumed Chuck is basically immune to kinetic attacks. And if you're not superhuman, if he bounces against you then you're not getting up for a while.
It's certainly a more useful power than, say, Invisible Kid or Matter-Eater Lad except under very specific instances. And more useful than his wife's, so I guess they might have also bonded over having to defend their worth despite weaker powers.

Is his relationship with Luornu the most healthy relationship between Legionnaires? All the others have at least some level of drama, so I'm tempted to say yes.

I have to agree that they make a wonderful couple. Perhaps it is the relative weakness of their powers that allows them to be more "normal" in their relationship i.e. their powers and the demands they make on them don't dominate them as individuals or their relationship and leave them free to work on caring for each other apart from that. Maybe.

Anyway another great analysis and one that reminded me just how much I appreciate the strength of their relationship amongst the sometimes chaotic nature of the others. They really do enhance each other making them amongst the most mature of the legionnaires without the seeming overwhelming stresses of some of the others. It's really nice that their relationship has almost always been portrayed so positively by almost every writer.

The scene you remember of Lu apparently being with Gim was from LSH V4 Annual 3 during 5YL when a stack of the older past and present legionnaires gathered on Winath for the christening of Dacey and Doritt, Garth and Imra's second twins. Ayla and Vi, out for an evening run, stumble across Gim and Lu sharing a swim together in an apparently intimate manner. There is a bit of discussion between them and later some of the other women about whether it was really Lu or Yera. The matter is never resolved. Loads of relationship stuff in this one, some quite controversial. Gim and Lu/Yera was not the most debated.

With Chuck and Lu, compared to some of the more high-drama couples, the relative lack of intensity and focus and need for constant drama has really served them well.

Imra and Garth have both been under enormous pressure due to their respective statuses, and not always handled it with grace. Shady and Mon are a haughty space princess and a walking wounded PTSD case. Drake and Dawny have their own special challenges. Dreamy's a drama queen and Thom sometimes seems like her doormat. Jo and Tinya are the flipside with the boy being the 'problem child' of the relationship (particularly in the Reboot/5YL, IIRC). We've already been over Brin's spinner-rack full of issues and Ayla not really being emotionally experienced enough yet to deal with a relationship like that, and how it was ultimately for the best that he and Ayla are no longer a thing. And so Chuck and Lu kind of seem like the sane ones, in this so very high-maintenance crew!

From a 'shore self' / 'deep self' perspective, it interests me that Chuck seems like the insecure / doubtful / hesitant one *in public,* and Lu the fearless / take charge / supremely confident one, again, *in public,* while we know that, thanks to her trauma regarding her multiple losses to her very self, and Chuck's deep well of support and empathy when she needed him to be the strong one, that he's 100% strong *when she needs him to be strong,* and then turns around and lets her be the confident one in public, since she seems to have more 'social courage' than he does, and he's perfectly content to stand behind her and let her take charge. And so they really complement each other well, IMO, neither completely overshadowing / talking over the other, as sometimes happens with other couples that have an imbalance in 'social confidence.'

great points re Bouncing Boy's power actually being formidable, if overshadowed...

and about the relative health of the Lu/Chuck relationship. Chuck never felt threatened by how strong Lu was, and Chuck was always there when she needed him. and Lu of course returned his love 100%, or 200%, it seems

Love me some Chuck and Lu!

I agree with all the points raised - especially about them being so stable and complimenting one another so well.

I am also on Team That Was Yera In The Hot Tub...I am fine with characters being polygamous but that scene just didn't really seem like it was a healthy nod to polygamy so much as two married people fooling around behind their partners' backs and it doesn't make either of them look good.

(to be honest I hope we get around to Gim and Yera at some point, because I have thoughts about those two!!)

But back to Chuck and Lu - the only thing I really have to add is that I think it actually served them well being comparitively minor characters for so long. They have managed to fly under the radar quite nicely when it comes to dumb soap opera shenanigans due to not being really at the core of a lot of stories, and the Legion for the most part (up until Geoff Johns at least) has nicely managed to avoid the cliche that most other superhero comics have where someone's favourite C-lister from 10 years ago only gets trotted out to have Superboy-Prime punch their head off in a crossover or whatever.

The hot tub scene was out of character for Lu as I saw her, so Yera playing games (like Circe with Dirk) is the interpretation I'd go with. Lu's Superboy/Valor infatuation seemed like more of a teenage crush that faded and she was devoted and faithful to Chuck. There was also a scene in 5YL when she and Chuck meet Valor and Shady. Valor grabs her and puts on this pretense of a great romance, at which Chuck and Shady roll their eyes - everyone knows it's a big joke. Maybe I just want to preserve the purity of the Chuck/Lu stable domestic relationship.

Klar made good points about Chuck's power being quite formidable. He may have been more of a joke to our 20th century minds than to those in the future, who would have a better appreciation of the variety of superpowers. He was a low-key guy; at the Academy, he was the one who provided support and inspiration while Lu was the tough instructor. Chuck might have made an excellent low drama Legion leader. He was certainly the pillar of support for everything Luornu went through.

They are indeed a couple with whom you could comfortably have dinner, or invite to your own home. Less intimidating, exotic and generally less "soap opera" as Raz put it.

As for ChatGTP, its "analysis" is vague and cliché and most of it could apply to any Legion couple. Leave it to real people who read the stories.

I have bumped this up, in deference to razsolo.

#11 Chameleon Girl (Yera) and Colossal Boy (Gim Allon)

Hoo boy, talk about problematic.

While on a break from the super-jealous Duplicate Boy, Shrinking Violet has a sleepover with Colossal Boy in a resort in the Himalayas. Only it turns out that this is not Salu Digby at all, but Yera, a Durlan impersonator. But Gim and Yera are married shortly thereafter anyway.

{This is where my chronology gets messed up. Either the above, or Gim and Yera are quickly and secretly married, then on their Himalayan honeymoon, Duplicate Boy attacks his ex-girlfriend’s husband. When Gim discovers Yera’s true identity, they choose to stay married.}

In any case, as I say, problematic.

But I imagine this might be what is going on behind the scenes-- that is to say, off-panel, in between the stories.

Remember that girl-- or boy-- in High School that you had a crush on, but seemed unapproachable? Then you sat down with them once, almost accidentally, and they turned out to be perfectly nice, normal, and the two of you even had a lot in common?

This is what I mean. Even in a group as small as the Legion, all living together in the same Clubhouse, some Legionnaires will be closer friends than others. We do not see much evidence that Colossal Boy and Shrinking Violet ever interacted very much socially. In fact, Vi mostly hung out with the Legion ladies.

In the Composite Legionnaire issue when the Legion is collecting scales from the space-dragons, Gim makes a colossal blunder, blowing one of the rare creatures to smithereens, and creating the aforementioned multi-monster. Salu seems distinctly peeved with him about this.

In the issue where Dr. Regulus teams up with the one-shot villain The Immune, and Imsk is implicated in treason against the UP, Gim approaches Salu, and asks her what is wrong.

“Is anything right?” she replies. “You don't seem to understand what happened here today, Gim. All my friends. The United Planets leadership-- Even my fellow Legionnaires-- Everyone was ready to believe the people of Imsk were traitors! It makes me wonder about the people I've chosen for friends. I guess I have a lot of reconsidering to do, Gim... And that's something I'd better do alone.” (walks away)

This does not seem like an exchange between two friends who know each other well.

In fact, “Shy Vi” probably did not get to know many of her colleagues well, making it all the easier for Yera to impersonate her.

It is hard for the outside observer to condemn Yera for her impersonation. In recruiting her, Micro Lad appealed to both her sense of duty, and her vanity.

Micro Lad: “Consider it an acting job, Yera, but with higher meaning. We’ve explained our cause to you, and we don’t want anyone to get hurt. Shrinking Violet would have helped us herself, but she’s sick. All you have to do is take her place in the Legion.”
Yera: “I shall do it, Yalo Muldron. But I shall not spy on them for you.”
Micro Lad: “No need. Just keep them from realizing that Violet’s with us.”
Yera: “It will be my most challenging role, and when I have played it, no Drama Guilds will dare bar Durlans-- saying our only talent is shape-changing. For I shall be Shrinking Violet, among those who know her well.”

Yera sticks with the Legion through some tough stuff: her first assignment is the invasion of Khundia, just Timber Wolf and two Durlans. (It does not go well)

She is then stranded on a frozen asteroid with Colossal Boy (and Cham and Brin and Imra), and Gim admits to her his long-standing crush-from-afar. Which brings her to tears.

Then, Yera has a role to play in the whole Great Darkness Saga. She even takes down the Lydea Mallor construct-- from the inside.



She proves herself a true hero.

Shortly afterward, and off-panel, Gim has a sit-down with the girl he thinks is Violet and discovers that she is a perfectly nice and congenial young woman, one who even reciprocates his feelings. In fact, it also seems that Yera is going through the Durlan equivalent of pon farr, because in a very short time, on-panel, she is seductively shrinking out of her new passionflower-purple costume, and rolling around naked in Gim’s soft, curly hair. On his head. And in a couple of issues, they are off to the Himalayas.

After Yera is exposed, we do not get to see the second sit-down between her and Gim, where he accuses her of deceiving him, and wants to break up / have their marriage annulled, but Yera points out that he never really knew the real Shrinking Violet at all, and she was more herself with him than at any time in her impersonation, and besides, doesn’t he want to try it the Durlan way?

This is the way it must have happened, right?

At any rate, we do see Gim and Yera over at his mom and dad’s place a while later, and everything seems hunky-dory, even when Gim springs the surprise announcement that he and Yera are already married, and his folks were not invited to the wedding.

In 5YL, Gim is pretty much absent. An old Starfinger injury has been flaring up, and he has retired from super-heroing, going back to the Science Police, Yera by his side.

In the Retroboot, Gim and Yera are both members of the Legion, but Yera is permanently lost in time, and so Gim is essentially a widower. How he feels about this… well, I do not have access to the 27-issue run of the Retroboot (Vol. 6?) but if anyone would like to enlighten me about Gim’s feelings-- or lack of feelings-- about his Durlan wife, please do.

I like to summarize these relationships in a few words. First, all-in-all, Colossal Boy seems nearly as shy and introverted as Binder-era Violet. Chameleon Boy believes (in a thought bubble) that Gim has “carried a torch” for Salu for years. Yera plays shy violet, but is quite the opposite in her true identity: socially aggressive, wicked sense of humor, willing to shock the elder Allons with unexpected transformations. She does have a certain naivete, as evidenced during her recruitment by Micro Lad, and feels some guilt about her part in what happened to the real Salu. Yera seems to bring out the best in Gim, or, at least, helps him better cope with social anxiety? Despite the problematic origins of their relationship, I think they are, in the end, good for one another.

Or, I could be wrong. Much of this analysis assumes facts not in evidence, and no doubt misses a lot of single-panel characterization. And what do I know?

I think now what draws me to Ayla being in a queer relationship with Vi is that she strikes me as a woman who went through relationships with men that didn't work out, and they weren't entirely the fault of the other half. She's not a perfect, flawless bisexual woman. I think it would work better if the narrative was more willing to directly acknowledge her flaws though, regarding both Brin and her attempts at coming onto Pol. People would probably think having Brin call out Ayla might be seen as him whining or the writers being biased against Ayla's queerness. God what happened to media literacy?

I'm just happy that the writers didn't go the route the Simpsons did when they had Milhouse's parents break up. We were initially shown that both of them were unhappy with each other for mutual reasons, but following the split Milhouse's mom Luann decided that it was all Kirk's fault their marriage failed and acted like a total jerk afterwards (rampantly cheating on her new lovers, committing financial abuse on Kirk, either taking sole custody of Milhouse or foisting him on Kirk depending on what hurt more), while Kirk was written as a shiftless loser who could never catch a break.

So while Ayla blamed Brin for their relationship not working, the writers at least avoided having Brin written as a total loser in every OTHER aspect of his life.

I wonder if Yera's initial naivette regarding Micro Lad's pitch to impersonate Violet might stem from a fairly common failing in people who act (or lie) a lot, feeling a bit self-assured / a little 'superior' in their own deceptive ability, and being completely blindsided by the notion that someone could be lying *to them.* I've even seen it in some not-as-good-as-they-think tactical wargamers, who will come up with brilliant tactics in a vacuum that, as the saying goes, totally fall apart in the presence of the enemy (who never seems to conveniently do the easy predictable thing they needed for their clever plan to come together).

Yera was hot stuff and confident in her role, as long as *it was a role,* and she could imagine that the 'other characters' were also operating from a script. But, when it gets real and the 'other characters' don't operate according to her anticipated script, she finds out the 'game' is very real, and she gets the ultimate test of her ability to improvise. As she says to Micro Lad (IIRC), it will be 'the role of a lifetime! To impersonate someone in the midst of her best friends!'

Another good analysis KK. I agree that although the start of their relationship was based on a lie, they seem to have made good of it anyway, perhaps only the identity of Yera was a lie and not her feelings. Still problematic but history is full of relationships that started off under less than ideal circumstances but grew to be strong through the struggles. (Of course there are just as many examples of the opposite.)

Re the timeline of their relationship/marriage, a bit more happened on the asteroid than just Gim revealing his feelings as we see them kissing, and in the Annual #1 (Computo/Jacques) they are discussing getting away for a few days with Vi/Yera saying "to sort out what happened" and Gim saying "you're a grown girl. If you don't know, I'm not about to tell you. But I hope it was the beginning for us." Then it is strongly hinted that they are married, for example in the Himalayas Gim asks Vi/Yera what she thinks of their Earth custom (which sounds like a honeymoon), and during the next Annual #2 (Val and Jeckie's wedding) two minor scenes have them commenting - Gim: "There is a lot to be said for this style of wedding Violet", Vi/Yera: "I don't know about that ..." - and later during the wedding itself - Gim: "Feel deprived Violet?", Vi/Year: "Not one bit". We get the confirmation at the end of #305 where the Vi/Yera plot is resolved, and Yera says to Gim "I shouldn't have let you marry me at that Himalayan hideaway".

During 5YL as you said Gim is rarely around and almost only on SP business. Yera only appears the once in LSH v4 Annual #4, the big get together on Winath for the christening of the Ranzz twins which we discussed in the Chuck/Luornu comments.

In the Retroboot she first appears during the "Superman and the LSH" storyline in Action Comics where she uses her abilities to sneak in to Justice League Earth HQ but is caught by Earth Man. When Gim finds out that Brainy sent her undercover alone he is enraged at her being in danger but is mollified to learn that she volunteered. This is also where we learn that she is now a legionnaire. When the Legion attacks the HQ Gim finds her injured but this turns out to be Earth Man using her powers. Gim rescues the true Yera and then Brainy asks her to kiss Sun Boy to wake him up and break his link to the red sun. She is disgusted but transforms into a sexy brunette and complies, waking Sun Boy which restores the yellow sun and Superman's powers and saves the day.

LSH v6 was still in the Post -Crisis period and both Gim and Yera are involved with Yera making two appearances, one as Gim's wife at his mother's home (#6) and the other as part of the Legion Espionage Squad investigating the misuse of Brande's fortune (#10). LSH v7 is during the New52 period when Yera is stranded in 21st Century Earth. Gim appears on one page in #1 where we learn he has just left the Legion and joined Starfleet, saying that "when luck ran out for my wife and the others ... well that was enough" showing that he believes Yera is dead. He reappears in the final issue #23 using his powers to help with the devastation on Earth and ponce again confirms his belief that Yera is dead. The Legion and Legion Lost are reunited in Justice League United "Infinitus Saga" but the timeline here is really screwy and we never see Gim and Yera together so who knows how that ends.

Wooh Gim and Yera, thanks Klar!

Their relationship is really the one that icks me out the most outside of Shady and Earth-Man (and with any luck we'll never have to hear about THAT in a comic again)

...and good work fleshing out the timeline, stile!

There is something that doesn't sit well with me that Gim just kind of nursed this infatuation with Vi for years and never really did anything about it, and then as soon as Vi Version 2.0 comes along who happens to be more receptive to his attentions Gim completely forgets about the first one and immediately marries the new model.

Even removing the fact that he had a crush on Vi, he was her teammate for a long time...it's grossly insensitive that he immediately shut aside any consideration for someone he'd known for years after she'd been through a horrific experience and then happily married the woman who is gonna remind her of that every day for the rest of her life. I think I would have liked Gim and Yera's relationship more if there had been a period of time where Yera had to build back trust; as it is it just shows how little Gim actually had any legitimate emotional attachment to Vi to begin with.

I would also have preferred for Yera to remain supporting cast rather than join the team and I find it a bit creepy that when we first see her as a Legionnaire she has long black hair just like Vi did (as opposed to her more standard Durlan appearance earlier)...and if we look at a certain hot tub scene from the 5YL Legion, she also cosplays other Legionnaires for Gim on occasion. She's painted as being mildly histrionic any time she wants something that conflicts with his needs and he never really makes allowances for her having a different cultural background; we saw in Legion Lost that had escalated to them having physical confrontations. It really seems like Yera isn't an equal partner in that relationship as much as she is a blank slate for Gim to project his fantasies on to, and they have friction whenever she tries to be more than that.

I am way more forgiving of Yera though....we really know nothing about how she was brought up (unless that was touched on in the later issues of Legion Lost, I had stopped reading it early on), but we have seen with Cham and RJ that Durla is an unforgiving cruel place, and very different from the utopian norm of the rest of the UP. It's easy for me to believe she genuinely didn't realise she was doing anything wrong by replacing Vi; and if Gim was the first non-Durlan guy who's shown her affection I can see how she could jump into that relationship without really thinking through the nuances.

Yera gives Gim fantasy fullfilment and Gim gives Yera validation and security when she's probably grown up not being able to take those things for granted. I don't think they really do it in a healthy way and I wish we had gotten some deeper exploration with their relationship, but that's how I see it anyway...of all the Legion couples, I think they're the ones I could most see having a big messy breakup at some point when fantasy and security aren't enough to keep them together.

great analysis, raz! you articulated well waht always seemed off to me about Yera and Gim.

It's really not a very comfortable relationship from the outside, based on deception as it is. Yera is opportunistic and self-deluding or naive; it's difficult to warm up to her. I would consider her a bit of a scoundrel, someone who would dump Gim if a better opportunity came along. However, Raz makes a good point that she comes from a culture we don't understand and may have very different ethical standards. She's not a villain, just advancing her self-interest. When that conflicts with Gim's expectations, the sparks may fly.

The couple do have a messy timeline, which leaves plenty of large gaps open to interpretation. The 30th century celebrity gossip media must have loved the Gim & Yera story.

I'll admit that part of my blithe acceptance of Gim and Yera as a couple is the messy bitch in me that loves drama.

I'm not quite at the 'stable couples are boring, I must break up Peter and MJ!' stage, but I also like some variety, and having a few couples that I look at and think, 'Oh, that's a train wreck waiting to happen...' reminds me of some of my real life friends, family and co-workers.

I'm still in the camp of it being a relationship that was off to a very bad start but made it work anyway. Yera made the point to Gim once she was found out that it was against her best interests to get involved with Gim as it made it much more likely that she would be found out, so that speaks for genuine affection on her part. Gim's acceptance of her even with the lie of who she was demonstrates his commitment to following through along with his own affection.

It is a terrible foundation and yet it seems to ne that they made it work and that deserves some praise in my opinion.

That's fair - I try to look at them in the best light when I'm writing them in my fanfic because I don't want to write characters I don't like so I think yours is definitely a valid interpretation as well, stile.

I just think Levitz could have done slighly more work to make them more sympathetic and less problematic really

I'm the same when it comes to my heroes. I could never write a team with, say, Earth-Man or Preboot Atmos in it

looping back though, I do think a heartfelt apology and concern from Yera/Gim to Vi would have gone a long way!!

yes that would have been good to see, although I appreciated the interaction displayed in LSH v4 Annual #2 when Yera couldn't face Vi but Vi chased her down and forgave her. It fit very well with their stories as portrayed so far and perhaps shows the difference in strength in the two characters. When they had previously confronted one another in v3, Yera gathered her courage and faced Vi's anger but did not apologise stating she was a dupe herself. Vi's angry response made sense for her then, but the Imsk/Braal war changed her. She learnt how she too could be maneuvered into actions she later regretted. This time Yera was more filled with guilt for her part in Vi's kidnapping and torture and it took Vi's willingness to forgive to bridge their relationship.

yeah, that was a great scene stile! a bit late considering all the events, but a great scene that helped move both characters forward. I did appreciate that

#5 Brainiac 5 (Querl Dox) and Supergirl (Kara Zor-El / Linda Lee Danvers)

======================================================================
She likes to (time) travel around,
She'll love you but she'll put you down.
Now people let me put you wise,
Su(pergirl) goes out with other guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enBXK3oY7Hs
======================================================================

Obviously, I am only imposing my own interpretation of these relationships, based on my impressions as a long-time fan. Having many writers for many characters over so many years and so many issues, it is not reasonable to expect deep and subtle, or even consistent, characterization.

But for Brainiac 5 and Supergirl, the romance is set up right from the beginning.

Supergirl, in her 1959 incarnation, was imagined as a typical teen-age stereotype, overlaid with Superman’s powers. And a particular kind of stereotype: white, blonde, blue-eyed, ethnically Scandinavian in appearance. (Although in the actual world of 1959 USA, only about O.35% of the population fit this ‘typical’ description: a total of only around 600 thousand girls out of 177 million.)

Teen-aged girls in the early sixties were imagined to be primarily interested in boys, fashion, boys, makeup, boys, rock’n’roll, boys, shopping, boys, and telephonic girltalk, aka gossip. Ref: Bye Bye Birdie (196O)

Kara Zor-El is therefore provided over the years with an abundance of romantic interests. Among them are:
>> Richard Wilson ‘Dick’ Malverne (human)
>> Tony Walson (human olympic athlete)
>> Jerro (merboy)
>> ‘Bronco’ Bill Starr (usually a horse)
>> Raspor of Gryyk (two-timing alien)
>> Kim O’Ryan (the Kimor Dann android)
>> Randor Bronarson of Calyx (yet another android)
>> Volar (Ren Uoxon) of Toma (transgender alien).

Okay, I realize that Comet is really a thousands-of-years-old Greek centaur. But still.

In 1982's The Daring New Adventures of Supergirl Kara has a new ‘first date’ almost every issue.

She was also:
>> engaged to Prince Raynor of the Inner-World
>> almost married to the Kryptonian criminal Tor-An
>> and finally, married to Salkor of Makkor for a period of time before her death.

I am surely missing some.

While the character of Kara was made more complex over the decades, becoming a college student, becoming a professional actress starring in a TV soap opera, going back to school to major in psychology… she still ends up with a what seems a surfeit of boyfriends.

When Supergirl is invited to join the Legion, it is in the context of her having some ‘super-girlfriends’ to pal around with.

Anyway, Brainiac 5 is there, and one of those characters created specifically as a love interest for Kara. Initially imagined as the descendant of the (still organic) Brainiac, his major personality trait is guilt over his ancestor’s criminality. This is something I have difficulty identifying with. I feel no personal responsibility for the slave-owning plantation owners on my father’s side, or the tyrant Vlad Tepes on my mother’s side.

Querl is immediately infatuated with Kara, and in typical comic book fashion, saves her from a deadly kryptonite meteor, earning her gratitude, if not her affection. As he is developed further, other character traits emerge. He is brilliant, but often careless. He is brilliant, but often overestimates his capabilities. He has a tendency to repress his emotions. He is mentally unstable, creating the Karabot unintentionally, and the monster Omega during a psychotic break. It is kind of hard for me to see what Kara sees in the boy.

Supergirl does not show up often in the 31st century, but when she does, the Querl-Kara romance is taken for granted. This is the way I would characterize the relationship, I suppose. It is the longest of long-distance relationships. To Querl, Kara has been dead for centuries. To Kara, Querl will not be born for an equal period of time. They literally do not mutually exist in their respective worlds when they are not together.

When they are together, well, Kara is in the future for a reason, and she’s busy. This is great for her character, as she is given a clear goal, can act decisively, and faces such threats that her powers can be exercised at their peak. I am thinking particularly of the Satan Girl episode. Here, Kara takes the initiative, becoming nearly the de facto Legion leader. And she is the leader of the boys only-- the girls are out sick with Crimson Whatever. She leads the Legion to Strange New Worlds, and shows why she is called the Maid of Might.

Of course, so there’s that.

All this means that there is not a lot of time to develop a relationship. There is a maybe-another-time-would-be-better aspect of the relationship. Querl and Kara take for granted that the other one will always be there. Querl knows that this will not always be true.

Well, he can always build a Karabot Mark II.

I always thought the relationship was one of those "long distance relationships" to keep people off Brainy's back about dating anyone, at least the OG Silver age relationship.

I always felt that it was a much more complicated and interesting relationship, Ironically, when Supergirl was transformed into Laurel Gand in 5YL and SW6

Believability of this depends highly on what crimes the original Brainiac commits. Although in all continuities he's the one giving a bad name to Coluans throughout the universe.
It's a bit harder for the Silver Age, but for the reboot? They guy basically sold the planet to the Computer Tyrants. I don't have a problem believing his descendant feels he has to redeem his family's name after THAT.


Being fond of Supergirl's earliest adventures, I think there's a case to be made that it's the respect he shows in her role as a hero. Early Supergirl was always trying to prove to Superman that she wasn't just a kid and that she could be a hero as much as him.
Brainiac 5, on the other hand, gives her a level of respect that she's not used to at that age.
Or maybe she has a thing for green skin. No judging.

I think one of the things that really hurt Supergirl's solo titles, especially after she goes to college, is DC refusing to give her a stable love interest. Possibly because, unlike Clark Kent, "Linda" doesn't have a well-defined personality independent of Supergirl, or a stable supporting cast.
Out of all of these love interests, Dick is mostly around when they're in high school and Jerro is one of the most boring characters in the Silver Age. Everyone else is good maybe for half an issue.
She does have a couple human love interests late in her career, but once again they're rather shallow.

I still can't believe that Supergirl graduated and went to college before Spider-Man did. Her early Action Comics serial is REALLY ahead of its time, and it's a shame most of her potential was wasted in her very bland college years.

I suppose it's not surprising that most of the mention/development of her relationship with Brainy happened in Legion titles and rarely in Supergirl titles. The writers each had their own priorities, and the Supergirl team probably avoided the complications of a "boyfriend" from a thousand years in the future, whereas the Legion writers naturally made their relationship a key component of their development of Brainy's character.

Actually it's more limited than that. During the Silver Age it comes up almost every time Supergirl visits the future but is almost never (that I can remember) mentioned when she is not around. Bronze Age is the same. Even the creepy Kara android story features Kara herself. It is not until Levitz that we start to see Brainy thinking about her when she is not around.

Brainy is one of my favourite characters but your points about his instability are well made. Kara is one of the issues that his instability can come out as well, the Karabot being a prime example. When he is grieving over the anniversary of her death in COIE he claims (in his thoughts) to have invented time travel specifically so he could meet her, which is also not what we would look at these days as a healthy obsession.

Still I enjoy the tales of their romance. I like the vulnerability it puts in Brainy puncturing his almost assumed infallibility on frequent occasions. From Kara's side he is the most interesting of the potential partners presented. Yes she could probably do better but frankly not from the options she experiences in the 20th Century. With her upbringing being so different to her cousin we can imagine perhaps that although she tries to fit in to present day Earth, it will always be different compared to her life in Argo City. Maybe that is the draw of the alien boy from the far future.

It gets tricky when looking at later versions with both characters effectively going through multiple reboots.

Tracing from the Legion side, 5YL has the Morduverse reboot that replaces Kara with Laurel Gand, who while stepping in to Kara's footsteps is not the same character, even according to the writers who made the substitution. I don't know if you plan to look at that couple later Klar but I will leave off comment in case.

Reboot Legion again has a version of Laurel Gand.

Threeboot Legion has quite a lot of stories spent with the post-Crisis Kara but Brainy is then in his "I'm a Vril Dox clone" portrayal of his character and not only shows no attraction form his side but is repugnant in his own personality anyway. The only romance plots involving this Kara in the Legion do not involve Querl at all.

Retroboot Legion never addresses it directly apart from one adventure they share during the "Last Stand of New Krypton" storyline ins Supergirl v5 #52 which is early in her time line and late in his. She mostly thinks he is a jerk but begins to trust him while he is trying carefully not to reveal anything about her future. This is followed a few months later (publishing time) by Supergirl v5 Annual #2 where Kara has apparently been stranded in the future for a while, this time very early in the Legion's timeline, and we get a post-Crisis Satan Girl story in which the two work together. This finishes with the Legion taking her back to the 21st Century where she gives Brainy a kiss and says she is open to a possible date in the future.

We never see anymore beyond this because Flashpoint and the New52 happens soon after, resulting in another new Kara and eventually another new Legion. There has been no interaction that I can remember since then, either because of the Legion being suspended or Supergirl being suspended.

So really we are only left with the original Legion Brainy and the original Kara. Perhaps its the softy in me but I will always like the occasionally creepy but generally sweet, long-distance and tragic relationship.

I've had the thought that it would actually be interesting if the original Brainaic was responsible for Kara's death. So Bariny's motivation would the desire to both atone for and yet somehow prevent this great sin of his ancestor.

Random thoughts about Kara and Brainy;

They remind me of beards, or those imaginary 'girlfriend you wouldn't know, she's from Canada', or whatever. A very convenient 'boyfriend/girlfriend' that you don't actually have to devote a single thought to when they are not right there in front of you, playing the role of your date, and then, pfft, back into oblivion with you.

As for what Kara might see in Brainy, he's got one of the few super-powers that she doesn't just overwhelm / overpower by being her. He will never have any sort of feelings of inadequacy because he's not as strong, fast, tough, etc. because he just flat out doesn't value those traits in himself the way many guys would.

And really, that's the main thing I see about their relationship. Safe, safe, safe. They really aren't ever expected to 'be there' for each other. Neither feels particularly intimidated by the others exceptional traits that might threaten another partner.

From a far enough distance, it almost feels like their entire relationship is centered around feeling comfortable with each other, and not wanting to risk a more challenging relationship... (With someone who is going to live to a rupe old age and he might actually have to make the slightest accomodation for, or adjustment to his own life, to be with, in his case. To someone who's actually present in her life, knows her friends, shares her home, etc. and might get in the way of her own stuff going on, in her case. Both of them know that they don't have to make any concessions or compromises to call each other boyfriend/girlfriend, which makes their relationship feel kind of hollow to me, especially with how 'out of sight, out of mind' both of them seem to be about it, although, I grant that that's more of a writing flaw than a relationship trait, and I would be more generous and assume that they *do* occasionally think of each other in off-panel moments, even when not actually in the same room, or time period...)

SET:
Like

#6 Star Boy (Thom Kallor of Xanthu) & Dream Girl (Nura Nal of Naltor)

”There's only one thing more potent than my black magic… teenage hormones.”
-- Ursula the Sea Witch, in Little Mermaid, the Musical

Opposites attract.

That is the only explanation I can give for Nura and Thom.

(Note that in the first Adult Legion stories, Thom has retired from the Legion and is an astronomer on Xanthu, like his parents. His wife Nura has left Naltor to join him. Considering Nura’s place in the semi-nobility of the High Seers, this seems like the most unlikely future projection imaginable.)

All the boys are crazy for Nura, but it is Star Boy and Mon-El that watch over her while she sleeps.

Lar may like to watch, but it is Thom that really falls for her. “Dream Girl,” he says, “I knew you were only pretending to be mean and evil!”

Only pretending to be mean and evil. Solid foundation for a relationship.

He knows this because he finds her “sobbing from a broken heart”. 'I know I am a good person because I feel so guilty and sad about all the terrible things I do,' said all the guards at Auschwitz.

The ‘mean and evil’ thing Nura has done is to get a couple of Legionnaires expelled for actually violating the Legion Constitution, and temporarily turning a few more into babies. She is, of course, trying to prevent the future she has previously foreseen, obviously not really understanding how her oracular powers work. (If you can only foresee possible futures, you are no better than the average mom. ‘Wear clean underwear in case you get hit by a bus’ is not predicting the future.)

Star Boy is not among those expelled, so he is very forgiving.

Their budding romance hits a snag when an old flame, Kenz Nuhor, attempts to assassinate Star Boy. Thom ends up killing Kenz instead. IIRC, Kenz is a Naltoran, and should have seen what was coming. He should have hooked up with that other girl, Barbiez, instead.

Nura and Thom go and join the Subs, but Superboy and Supergirl have a plan, as usual. To get them back on the team, they are admitted to the Legion (at the super-cousins’ recommendation) in the identities of Miss Terious and Sir Prize at the cousin’s request.
The couple have grown even closer in exile, perhaps finding that lead armor kind of sexy. They fight Evillo, free Mysa, time travel hijinks are involved, their true identities are revealed, and *bang* back in the Legion.

The casual reader may not realize that Nura has more than one super-power. Her feminine pulchritude has been distracting to heroes and villains alike. She is devastatingly intelligent, using Naltoran super-science to de-age Legion members and alter Ayla’s powers. She was the first to weaponize the flight ring. She proved able to do what no other Legionnaire except Brainiac 5 could do: operate Brainy’s force-field belt.

Star Boy also had more than one power in his first appearance, and the story of how he lost his kryptonian-adjacent powers and went missing for a couple of years’ issues is a retcon that makes him look like something of a dope. IIRC, this was also where he was defined as the ‘thirteenth Legionnaire’, and the ‘unluckiest’. (Although there are others who could compete for that title.)

Aside: I should note that when we are first introduced to Star Boy, long before he met Dream Girl, he has a girlfriend named Zynthia, who is never seen again. I wonder if he liked watching her sleep?

He is a regular player in the Legion, because there is always something that needs to be made super-heavy. He is powerful enough to immobilize Superboy or Mon-El, given a little time. I don’t think that Thom is a dim bulb, a rôle he sometimes plays. I’m sure he is perfectly capable of computing tenth-order equations of the fourth dimension, including appropriately altering the infinity constant in the Rox-Url galaxy. But Nura’s intellect just shines.

Their relationship progresses pretty well; Nura is a bit of a hedonist, so we have to imagine that Thom is on that train as well.

There is a break-up when Thom is forcibly recalled to Xanthu to serve as Planetary Champion, and the two lovers do not endeavor to venture a long-distance relationship. Nura ends up in an unfortunate relationship with Marak Russen, aka Atmos, Thom’s primary competitor for the title of Planetary Champion of Xanthu. Atmos, among a plethora of other powers, is a projective empath, and manipulates Nura’s emotions until she clocks him.

There are two endings to this story.

In 5YL, Thom is happily married to Yvyya, the owner of a batball team, which Thom coaches. Nura is happily ensconced as High Seer of Naltor, attended by her-- what do you call a male harem? They have gone their separate ways, and are both more-or-less happy with their lives. But when the Universe is ending, and with Yvyya already gone, Thom gives Nura one last lingering kiss, for old time’s sake.

In the Retroboot, Thom gets stuck in the past, taking the identity of ‘Starman’. Without his 31st-century medication his mental state deteriorates into some form of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. Nura travels back in time specifically to rescue him, but he quickly dies anyway in the final collapse of Legion HQ that ends that run.

The complex details of these two Legionnaire’s stories make it clear that Nura is the one more invested in their relationship. In 5YL, Thom found happiness without Nura, but she wants one more fling. In the Retroboot, it is implied that Nura makes some sacrifices to bring back Thom from the 21st century, only to lose him violently and unexpectedly at the end.

LOL. This really made me laugh. Good one Klar.

What to think of these two? It seems solid for a while but later portrayals do suggest that neither of them were committed enough to the relationship to keep it going through life's changes and challenges. Some might point at Nura's appearance of vamp and playing the field so to say but equally Thom seems more interested in what Nura brings to the party than what he can contribute on his own. When Nura is leader he often appears to be complaining about their lack of intimacy rather than any other aspect of their relationship that might be strained due to demands on her time. We don't see for instance any effort on his part to support her in her leadership role. Even more we should have seen something after she was effectively raped by Atmos. Agreed there wasn't much time in the midst of the Magic Wars but still when we next see them they have both moved on, while remembering their previous romance fondly.

Retroboot does portray it differently, with both missing the other, and when they get back together it seems like they never were apart. No discussion or concern about Thom's months/years in 21st Century and mental struggles. And yes it comes to a tragic end.

So one of the classic relationships but not one that appears to stand the test of time.

A lot of the Legion couples were established early in the series, before individual personalities were well defined. Some of them stuck and we're left wondering what they see in each other - not unlike real life.

Thom may have found happiness with Yvyya but it's sort of strange that he maintained the attachment to Naltor (was it ever confirmed that Yvyya was Naltorian? She might have just owned the team.). You have to wonder if he wasn't just trying to stay close to Nura.

She might have broken off the relationship because of the demands of her position as High Seer (knowing he had problems with her being Legion leader). Vampy Nura with the male harem is less appealing; she's more self-indulgent and frivolous than retroboot Nura, who maintains her devotion to Thom. Who doesn't like a doomed lovers story? Nura heroically trying to save Thom, Thom trusting her, trying to reach her and it all fails in the end. The 5YL ending might be more realistic - two old lovers reconnect and have a nice chat - but the retroboot gave us a more dramatic story.