Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! LEGIONOLOGY #11 - LeVIathan :)

Had to skip last week due to emergency that was beyond the circumstance...now it's settling down...somehow...Anyway...now to continue the LEGIONOLOGY weekly, we are going to talk about an individual or team's characteristic traits and how it possess such uniqueness to the Legion Lore. We move the spotlight to another Leviathan, better known as formerly Shrinking Violet, who can be either conspicious or inconspicious!

The basic idea is simple: Describe her, what sort of person she is, what she means to the Legion, why she has the friends and relationships that she does. Who is she? Are you the expert on her?

From Shooter's:
"More than a little like a female version of Ultra Boy. She is very hung up on Ultra Boy. She is very hung up on Duplicate Boy and is rather a depressive sort -- but not as extreme as U-Boy. Just being a girl helps, because it is easy to relax into a follower's role and her essential underlying morbidity is interpreted as shyness. She is very emotional, bright, attractive, and confusing to simpler types like Colossal Boy who can't understand that she is happiest when wallowing in loneliness, suspicion, doubt and fear. She gets all her weird sex from Duplicate Boy and waiting and worrying just makes it sweeter."

From Bierbaum's:
"Painfully shy, insecure and possibly not quite competent in the early years. Probably was dealing with issues of sexual identity, not able at first to accept her lesbian nature. Never really had it together until she found Ayla, but after that, she become one of the Legion's best."

what do you think of those statements? Do you agree or disagree? is that how we perceive on Salu Digby? Discuss!

Don't be shy! come on!

The words "shy" and "Violet" are practically synonymous in any Legion fans mind. Vi has always been a strong person, but her problem has been in summoning the strength from deep inside of her. But once she becomes determined to do something, she would just barrel on like an unstoppable freight train. The Espionage squad is also the perfect place for her; she gets to stay in the background while using the skills that she has honed over time. Which makes her spending a lot of time in giant Vi mode WAY out of character. Not only is it impractical, but it makes Vi look a bit like an attention-seeker. The old Vi spent a lot of time in tiny mode, observing her teammates rather than interacting eith them. Perhaps DNA are trying to show that she is comfortable with her role as a Legionnaire now?She was difficult to get to know, but once you did know her, she was a totally different person. And over the years she has continued to surprise us in many fascinating ways.

I find Shooter's take on Violet very interesting. I wish he'd had a chance to explore that side of her during his stints as writer. It would have made her so much more interesting than the "shy Vi" we all know and love.

Not that there's anything wrong with being shy. But there's got to be more to Violet than that. For this reason, I liked much of the "Emerald Vi" storyline, insofar as it showed what would happen if Vi had unlimited power. It corrupted her by playing on her nurturing side -- wanting to grant her teammates their deepest desires -- and on her desire for acceptance, e.g., winning the leadership election. Showing this side of Vi was one good thing that came out of that storyline before it went on too long.

Vi has always put me in the mind of Mary Ann on "Gilligan's Island" -- a girl-next-door type, not necessarily shy, but decent, good-natured and unimposing. There's a scene of her somewhere in the postboot with Ferro that sums her up for me. She's sitting on a couch in the rec room, minding her own business, as Ferro draws her picture. He sees in her the beauty that she doesn't know she possesses. Ferro is the one who is truly shy here -- too shy to ask her out, perhaps. It's a nice scene of two good people who don't realize their connection.

A salute to Salu! I often felt and said that the true Shrinking Violet was the shy, quietly confident and bright girl next store. I thought Levitz/Giffen really captured this until her kidnapping and her following attitude post sens-tank was a little to aggressive. I felt she would have withdrawn into her own little world than become this ass kickin, Ripley Alien 3 type lesbian that she became during the Bierbaum disaster. After the boot, she was returned to her basic character traits. I enjoyed her post boot joining, Emerald Vi storyline. She also comes off a the others "little sister". Then DNA just left her in a void and have done nothing with her character for four years now. I always said on these threads that this team does not need every female (or male) to be this aggressive, Rambo/Ripley, kick ass type. As in our own communities, people differ from each other and how they handle the task of evolving in life. Some, like Salu , I believe are quiet, intorvetred types that have strong will and sound values and they get the job done, behind the scenes and out of spotlight, with grace.

Let's hope our new creative team explore this with Salu and have her character defined and developed to the level that Imra, Rokk, Brainy, Jo, and the rest of the always in prime time Legion players have been over the years!

Imskian, I totally agree with you about Vi being disjointed post sensory depravation tank. That was the Violet who first became my favourite, but in retrospect it just dosen't seem logical. However, I think the post-boot writers have done an excellent job in merging the two personalities into a believable character. I could see this version going hard if she went through something like the tank.

It's the combination of shyness and fierceness that makes Vi so interesting to me now. The question is: Why is Vi so shy? You would think her martial arts prowess would lead to confidence in other areas in her life. I can think of three possible reasons:

• She was brought up socially isolated, perhaps as a part of her training.
• Imsk has a very different culture than the UP in general. There were a couple of lines in her first apperance that suggest that possibility.
• Vi's ashamed of someting or trying to hide something. Perhaps there's something about her that would make her outcaste among her own people, or something that's normal on Imsk that she doesn't think outsiders would understand.

Whatever the reason, it seems that Vi can only really let herself go and express her passion is in a fight.

I can't (in case you haven't noticed) talk about Vi without contrasting her with my other favourite, Brin. These two are like flip sides of the same coin. Introvert and extrovert; thoughtful and impetuous; calm and volitile. On closer inspection, though, we've got two characters who are fierce fighters, but also caregivers and team players. I'd really like to see some interaction between these two. I figure they'll either love each other or hate each other or both.

I found the the Shooter comments on Salu interesting - I never saw much of a comparison (or interaction, for that matter) between Ultra Boy and Violet. She is, of course, THE girl next door - attractive, dignified, and full of grace. I also agree with Shooter's accessment about her being happiest when lonely and in doubt. Her shrinking abilities caused her to be one of a handful of Legionnaires who felt their abilities made them "lesser" members of the group. Her long-distance relationship with Duplicate Boy was in character with her persona. I felt her character was given a confidence boost during the Bates/Cockrum & Grell run with a new, revealing costume design and 'short' stories featuring Violet (such as the story with Colossal Boy where they're stranded on their cruiser in space). In the post boot her defining storyline (in addition to her date with Chuck!) was clearly the Emerald Vi episode. This was interesting in that it explored the potential dark side of this all-around good girl, much the way "Lost" did with Element Lad. Of course, the ending of Emerald Vi , with the death of Colossal Boy and Violet acquiring his powers was not likable or believable to me. I also agree with the statement that she has not been much more than a giant backdrop in the last few years, other than in her Legion Worlds story.

As for the TMK era, I choose to treat any and all depictions there as an Elseworlds bad dream.

Thinking about Vi's powers - to shrink, traditionally, and more recently to grow as well - have we ever seen her using the process of changing size to fight an opponent?

For example, someone takes a swing at her, she shrinks by a foot so that the swing misses, then quickly grows by several feet to overpower the adversary. It seems we only see her as very small or very large - she should surely exploit the whole range of sizes.

I sure never saw anything between her and Ultra Boy! What was Shooter thinking of? Timber Wolf would love rather than hate her, I think. He went for Tinya when she was vulnerable; he's probably very protective and Vi's shyness would appeal to him. However, her strengths in battle would surely be attractive to him as well - I would see him getting bored with some frail female. And I doubt that Vi would put up with too much protection, although she might appreciate the concern it represents.

Remember in TMK, Vi lost a leg fighting the Khunds and wanted to get right back in the fight. In Foundations, she broke some ribs yet persisted through the pain. She really is a tough fighter in either incarnation.

Vi and Ayla? I don't know - pre-boot, it appeared to be post-Sens Tank, tough Vi who pursued Ayla (while Ayla was pursuing Pol) - I would see the situation reversed post-boot. If there were to be a relationship, I think it is snappy, short-fused and am-I-as-good-as-Garth Ayla who would be chasing Vi.

In what issues did Vi & Ayla start their relationship?

I think Vi was always a great Legionnaire. Shy, yes, but she was a valued member of the Espionage Squad. I remember being rather new to the Legion when they found her in the sens tank and I was very shocked and horrified by what she went through. What issue did she come back? Anyone know?

This is a very good question, Fats. Other size-changing heroes, such as the Atom and Ant-Man, have certainly used their powers in the manner you describe. But not Violet. Or at least not in any scenes I can remember.

Violet is a nurturer, as I mentioned above. She takes a nonviolent approach to her powers. For example, she used them to implant kryptonite capsuls inside Superboy and Supergirl's brains (ADVENTURE # 350), to help them forget the Legion. She can fight -- the Legion once had some miniature weapons at her disposal (ADVENTURE # 367) -- but she prefers to use her powers for constructive purposes. The Legion needs such builders -- after all, their goal is to serve people -- as much as it needs powers that tear down or destroy.

Vi came back in issue 312; in 313 she beat up Duplicate Boy.

Vi was rescued from the sens-tank in LSH v.2 # 305.

Sticking to the reboot Vi:

She's sweet, she's kinda shy but still waters run deep. She's got heart and is everyone's little sister on the team. We haven't heard much from her lately so it's impossible to say what DnA think of her but she's gotten somewhat bolder since the whole Emerald Vi thing and having taken on Gim's growing powers.

Now that the "shy Vi" aspect to her character is over and she's no longer the wallflower it's almost like writers don't know where her character can go. DnA (or the next team) need to give her a bit more depth so that her characterization involves more than just how much she is or isn't like her nickname.

I like the old scarface Vi.
The hard girl.
The Ayla's lover.
The current Vi is too much inmadure for me.
She must grow, in many forms.
Let the girl fall in love, with Ayla, Zoe or Tenzil, but she needs someone by her side.

And... Salu never was The Emerald Empress, she was only a victim of the power games of eye.