Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Oh Yeah, That Forum: The Titans The Titan du jour!

What I recall form where I started was Wally being mad at Raven. I tend to remember that more than why he was mad at her.

I also remember that quick series of pictures showing how her appearance changed.

<font size="5">TIM DRAKE, ROBIN</font s>

I always felt that in some ways Drake was actually superior to Grayson in the role of Boy Wonder. Tim went to a great deal of trouble to earn the mantle and the mask with his blossoming skills as a detective. I did enjoy the early days of his career, his times with Nightwing are (to me) quite special.There's something in the scenes of Dick and Tim together that is just so darned charming that it makes me smile.

I know that's a little odd for a set of characters that are usually described as 'grim and brooding' but there's still something in their interaction that comes across as deeply affectionate, like they're family. Bruce doesn't actually encourage it but it happens anyway.

Tim's alright, he was good in YOUNG JUSTICE and has been good in TT. I rather like the relationship/friendship developing between Tim and Superboy.

Unlike Seinfeld I hate the Drake. But then again I hated most of Young Justice. I just don't understand this continued 'youthening' of heroes. I don't recall any offical age being given (hell they usually avoid that for all comic book characters) but their representation always seemed to be as Tweens and that's just too young in my opinion.

I had stopped reading Batman long before Tim Drake made his appearance, so I only ever encountered him in the few issues of the Wolfman-era TITANS in which he appeared.

My only concrete memory of Tim Drake, in fact, is from an issue in which he, so far as I recall, doesn't appear. In TALES OF THE NEW TEEN TITANS # 50 -- the Wonder Girl wedding issue -- there's a scene in which Dick Grayson asks Bruce Wayne why he never considered adopting him. (Bruce had recently tried to adopt Tim.) I don't recall Bruce's answer, but it was a very "real" moment between these two characters, an open and vulnerable moment for Dick, and an example of why Wolfman remains one of my favorite writers.

I like this thread LYL. You ought to start one for the Legion when we get back to "normal".

That was Jason Todd.

I like Tim Drake. He was the best replacement for Dick Grayson. He's really neat and I think that he's just perfect for the Titans.

Which robin is the one currently on the Cartoon Network Series?

Its driving me crazy!

It's just Robin. He seems to be an amalgam of them. Mostly Dick though.

Agreed, especially because Dick is the one with the crush on Starfire as the one in the series had protrayed.

[Emily La Tella voice] Never mind. [/Emily La Tella voice]

Agreed. The relationship between Dick & Tim is really well portrayed and adds quite a bit to both characters. They do seem like brothers when they're together and there is no question that Dick is protective of Tim, while Tim really looks up to and admires Dick.

The Nightwing book has gotten so awful (as detailed in another thread) that I would like to see Tim become a major character in that book, taking on the role of confidant/sidekick for a while to help Dick out of the "gutter". He's about the only one that I think could really help Dick "heal" from all the damage Devyn Grayson has done to him recently.

The relatiosnhip developing between Tim and Kon is also pretty neat and sort of appropriate. Considering the traditional Batman/Superman team, it's fitting that the two of them would carry on that tradition.

They haven't actually said that the Robin in the Teen Titans cartoon is Dick but the Batmite like guy was named Nosyerg and he's also the Robin that grows up to be Nightwing. Heck, they haven't even mentiond the Batman directly, just a comment from Robin to Slade that he already had a mentor.

So why aren't Kid Flash, Wonder Girl and Speedy in the Titans cartoon?

Tim's costume: keeps the distinct Robin elements while giving the original the update it sorely needed.

I don't follow the Bat-books (including Robin's own title) so I'm not that familiar with Tim's storylines. If I'm not mistaken, though, he's rich and he's smart. It makes me wonder for just a sec what Bruce would have been like if the Waynes had skipped the movie that night.

I did read Young Justice. The kids go camping and they play Truth or Dare. Someone dares Robin to take his mask off. He does...and there's another mask underneath. He had guessed someone would ask....

<font size="5">JESSE CHAMBERS, JESSE QUICK</font s>

Let me try to play catch-up:

KID FLASH I only ever encountered as the Flash, and because of that I always have a hard time as seeing him as this young sidekick.

RAVEN was always visually interesting to me, but I never really heard or understood her backstory or powers. To me she was this mysterious cowled woman, almost like Cloak of Cloak & Dagger, who could teleport. I didn't ever read much personality from her and always thought she was on the team more for her function of transport than as a great friend who wanted to be there.

DAMAGE I found to be a cool character I could potentially relate to, as this young guy coming into a team of people for the first time and having to make friends. I didn't really follow the series though right after Zero Hour and his joining, so I don't have anything memorable to share about him.

ROBIN/Tim Drake really seems more the epitome of Robin than Jason Todd ever was...but of course, Tim always was meant to be a more 'modern' Robin. I actually kind of have a hard time accepting him still as a Boy Wonder, just because some of the first stories I ever read were Bat-Man issues from around 1990 when Tim was still coming to his own. I was 6 at the time...and knowing I'm about 20 now and he's still the teenage sleuth is kind of odd to me mentally. I guess this is what everyone goes through eventually though, as they grow up and suddenly find themselves older than the heroes they looked up to as kids. I actually kind of fear the day I feel this way about the postboot Legion who I've literally gone through my teenage years with.

JESSE QUICK I encountered only in Flash and Impulse, but loved how she fit in the Flash mythos. A young woman, but not too young, who was quite mature in using her powers and was more practical and calm compared to many speedsters. Visually I've always found her cute and loved for her second costume. When I heard she was slated to join the Titans, I figured it was a great match knowing they were all about the same age...the young adults of the universe but definitely out of their teenage years. Since I didn't know Flash was slated to join back up too, I thought she'd be a practical asset.

Jess was great in FLASH, and in Devin's run of TITANS.

When Jay Farber took over, though, her character got walked all over. He pretty much turned her into a boyfriend-stealing bimbo (and please note the boyfriend she slept with was HER OWN MOTHER'S FIANCE).

Farber just about destroyed Jesse Quick. Now no one wants to write her.

KID FLASH: Arguably, Wally West has grown as much or more than any other character in comics. I'll always remember how the death of Barry Allen hit Wally... he went from this somewhat stereotypically conservative jerkish boy to a young man weathering pain and grief. His subsequent changes have been fairly believable.

RAVEN: Unlike Raven, who has had silly transformations heaped upon her time after time. She's the Kinetix of the Titans. I remember how she manipulated Wally into joining 'her' Titans by making him think he was in love with her. At the least, her costume and 'soulself' were visually interesting through almost all of her versions.

DAMAGE: He has a sort of 'Orient Express' origin that is pretty unique. Too bad his connections to so many DCU characters has been so limited*. As a Titan, his stay was really too short to produce memories, though the already-mentioned abuse story does linger.

I liked that he was raised in the South, as this part of the country is pretty neglected, super-hero wise.

ROBIN/Tim Drake: After the fate of Jason Todd (voted to *die* by readers... I find that disturbing), I was reluctant to embrace a new Robin. But Tim was so capable and likeable (he 'earned' his redbreast by deducing Batman's ID) that I couldn't help but like him. I totally agree about the Nightwing/Robin brotherly feel-- I only *wish* I was that close with my brother. It's always a treat to see Dick and Tim swinging from rooftop to rooftop over the streets of Gotham City or Bludhaven.

His best moments as teammate happened in YOUNG JUSTICE... so far as a Titan, he hasn't really entered my memory.

JESSE QUICK: Remember her debut in the JSA miniseries? When she was introduced as a student of superheroes? I wish that'd been continued, rather than her becoming the business mogul. She has a lot in common with Wally, too, in that both are carrying on the legacies of father(figures). Plus, her status as the only speedster that flies makes her unique. In her early TITANS issues, she came across as a developing leader... smart and strategic like Nightwing. Unfortunately, that was quickly dropped for the horrible sleeping with her mother's boyfriend storyline. Now, she's powerless and working for the JSA. Hopefully, she'll be treated better there-- if she ever gets any panel-time.

Todd

*I added another 'relative' to Damage's family tree (sorta) in a fanfic here web page

This just shows how different a slant we have on things. I liked that storyline for its sheer gutsiness.

Jesse Quick was someone who appeared to have it all together: successful in business, a side career as a heroine, a heroic legacy to live up to. And then, bammo! She does something so incredibly stupid, it makes you realize she has some issues (with her mother, perhaps?) that she hadn't dealt with.

I'm not saying I liked the idea of Jesse being a slut. But that sort of behavior often masks deeper problems, particularly when someone pretends outwardly to have everything under control. I wish this could have been explored more: If super-heroes are going to have psychological hangups, you can bet they'd be big hangups.

As far as Raven is concerned, I agree pretty much with what matlarrk said earlier: Her story about trying to control her dark side got old very quickly.

Wasn't there a point in the Baxter series in which Trigon had been defeated and Raven was transformed into this sort of angelic being (hence the white costume)? If memory serves, she was gone for the Titans for a time afterwards. I can't recall anything of significance being done with her character afterwards. Perhaps she should have been left in limbo, or heaven, or wherever.

I would rather Jesse had BEEN a slut. Her actions were 100 percent out of character.

HWW, you are the only person I've ever seen say that they enjoyed that storyline in Titans. I used to hang a bit at the old DC Ttans board. That storyline was loathed.

At least Geoff Johns took pity on Jesse's character and gave her a (tiny) role in JSA. Man, how an up & coming poential superstar crashed & burned. Thanks, Farber.

I used to hang out at the Titans board, too. I remember the loathing Faerber (the correct spelling) generated!

I don't mind being in the minority in appreciating that storyline. I guess it comes down to the fact that I look for a fresh angle on super-heroes, for something that hasn't been done before. If a storyline challenges my expectations of what super-heroes should be like or how they should behave, then so much the better.

This often happens in real life. (Kurt Cobain, anyone?)

Maybe I've been following rock stars too much.