Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Oh Yeah, That Forum: The Titans TEEN TITANS (spoilers possible)

Now that you have my attention, Blacula, could you fill me in on what happened to Lilith, Troia, Golden Eagle, Gnarrk, and Jericho?

I remember there being a disturbing story of how Jericho had been possessed by an evil entity which gave him his voice back, but am a little vague as to how Arella and that freckle-faced kid with the glasses (Danny Chase?) were involved.

Thanks in advance, mate,

Brian

Were these two characters the focus from which Phantasm was created

OK I'll start with the easy ones -

Lilith - adopted the new name Omen (and became half the character she used to be - basically a poor imitation of Raven instead of the happy hippy chick she once was) in Jurgens' 'Teen Titans' series. Left the team but then for no reason came back during Degradation Day to hang around in the background of panels and not say anything until suddenly getting her neck snapped by a Superman robot. Her body is probably still lying there for all the attention any of the characters paid to this.

Troia - was also killed by a Superman robot in Degradation Day but in the final pages it was revealed that she had somehow been transported to another planet where a battle was raging. It turns out that it all has something to do with her Titans of Myth origin and is currently being played out in 'The Return of Donna Troy' series.

Golden Eagle - was strangled to death by a Wildebeest in the 'Titans Hunt' storyline of the mid-90s. Has recently popped up again in the pages of Hawkman claiming that he didn't die after all but I don't think much more than that has been revealed. The next issue spotlights him though so some answers should be given there. Personally, I smell a rat but we'll see.

Gnarrk - was never a member post-Crisis but did appear in a one-shot story that featured Titans East and West trying to save him from some evil government types. Lilith and he formed some type of immediate close bond but he was hospitalised during the adventure and later died of his wounds.

Jericho - was infected and slowly corrupted by the souls of Azareth and took over the Wildebeest Society in order to capture all the metahuman Titans and allies. He was finally killed by his Dad, Deathstroke, and thought to be gone. In the early issues of the current Titans series however it transpired that he had in fact possessed his Dad at the point of his death and had been lying dormant in him all this time. He then took control of him for a while and used him to kill Wintergreen and attack the Titans. The Titans were somehow able to free Deathstroke though and trap Jericho on a computer disk (don't ask) where he remains to this day.

Phantasm - was originally a creation of Danny Chase's who was using this new disguise to hide the fact that the Wildebeest's had failed in their mission to kill him earlier. Danny, along with Arella, were later both killed however during the final fight with the evil souls of Azareth. Now things get confusing - I think Danny and Arella's souls then merged to create a new Phantasm and then were later joined by some other souls of Azareth but my memory is very hazy of this period. Phantasm hasn't been seen in years though so who knows what his status is.

Hope that helps. There's a great site called titanstower.com that has all the Titans information you could ever want.

Thanks, Blacula,

Then you dont mind me asking whether Raven still exists in the current DC universe. I vaguely recall her being purged of Trigon's influence to the extent that she wore an angelic white version of her costume and that she was more "emotionally" stable from that point on.

After that point, i havent a clue as to whether she was involved with the corrupt souls of Azarath during the "Titans Hunt" storyline, as well as Jericho.

You have been out of the Titans loop for a while legionadventureman!

Raven was cleansed of Trigon's evil for a time (hence the white costume) but during the Titans Hunt storyline she was re-infected, turning her into 'Evil Lesbian Raven'. She then took to wearing big boots with little black leather straps around her breasts and crotch and little else and made-out with Starfire on her wedding day (this was an extremely painful period to be a Titans fan but looking back now it does have great comedy value!). After an endless storyline her body was finally destroyed releasing her good soul which floated around as a golden spirit for a while. In the early issues of the current series though she was reborn with a new, slightly younger body and now has the ability to fly. I haven't been very happy with Johns' portrayal of Raven here actually but she hasn't done much either so the next issue (which spotlights her and Superboy) should be interesting.

Something else else tells me i should take a couple of headache tablets and go lie down somewhere...*groan*

Thanks, Blacula...but i hope you were making up that "lesbian dominatrix" hooey - coz i dont see Starfire ever being intimate with anyone but Nightwing - even Changeling couldn't turn her head...

Sadly I wasn't. But in Starfire's defense she didn't have much choice in the make-out session.

Oh golly, Raven mind-controlled her!!!!

Poor Koriand'r....

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...featuring a spotlight on Superboy in which Raven helps him 'find his soul'. Ma and Pa Kent appear for a couple of panels, and Krypto gets a lick in, as well (a nice moment, actually).

For me, there were two highlights. For all Raven's empathic 'magic' (for want of a better word), I found the most effective panels were those of a simple conversation between one character who recognized her own pain in the experiences of another, evoking the considerable history of one and moving the story forward for the other.

AND then there's Omen-- even though this seems a pretty prickly fate, I'm glad there's at least the potential for her to be around once she's shed her 'offspring'.

Considering the returns of Hermes, Donna Troy, Golden Eagle, Lilith (sort of), Jason Todd (though I don't read BATMAN, so I'm not clear on the details), and a couple of villains here and there, I'm wondering if INFINITE CRISIS has to do with a disintegration of the line between life and death... maybe there'll be a team of the 'formerly dead'.

If Hippolyta and Maxima waltz into an issue of JLA, I'm sure of it.

Actually, there *was* a good reason Lilith was in GRADUATION DAY... she had rejoined the TITANS during the last year or so of their last series; the final Jay Faerber issues with Barry Kitson art. Barry drew her as the hep-dressed chick she is, with no sign of the OMEN costume (he pleased many TT fans on he old DC board at a time when there was very little that was pleasing TT fans).

So while Lilith being in GD fit, I didn't understand why she was in her OMEN outfit.

I'm so glad I read this spoiler.

Wasn't Kole originally tied to Lilith's first origin (where she was the daughter of Thia of the Titans of Myth)? I can't remember the details but I seem to remember thinking that her origin no longer made sense when Lilith's origin was wiped out.

# 26 actually got me all teary-eyed for a minute. I'm glad Connor learned he had a soul.

re: Lilith. Ummmm... maybe her return isn't such a good thing after all, considering that final page.

re: the art; it was nice. Wasnt Tony Daniel one of those IMAGE-exclusive artists back when Image was the shiznit and stuff?

Tell me about it! Talk about "Be careful what you wish for"!

Ditch the sheet Lilith! Bring back the Go-Go outfit!

I'm glad someone else recognized that image! I thought I was misreading/misinterpreting it at first. But dear God! Can we make Lilith's story any weirder than it already was? And someone please tell me: Why is it that all the Titan females have such screwed up origins/life stories?

I guess I'm going to put my faith in Geoff Johns and pray he doesn't abuse it. If he has some love for the so often looked-down-upon likes of third-tier Titans like Mal, Karen and Duela, then I will trust he will do right by Lilith. She has a LOT of fans. Possibly more than DC suspected.

I read # 27.

Well, the art was everything one would expect. I got a few giggles out of it.

What was REALLY disappointing to me was the story. I didn't care for it at all, which surprised me.

At least the colors were nice and vibrant.

Now that I think about it, I wonder if that image was meant to be Omen. Omen and the disciples of Blood do wear similar outfits. I think perhaps it was just a coincidence (crosses fingers).

As for the latest issue.... blah. The story didn't much grab me, and the art was mediocre at best. It amazes me how little research Liefeld must have done before drawing it. I mean, didn't he know that Raven has very short hair now? He drew her like she was 20 years ago. And I was beginning to get tired of seeing all of these breasts that looked like fluid water balloons that weren't filled enough.

I'll pick up the next issue, only because it's what I do, but here's hoping that the main creative team doesn't take any more breaks for awhile.

Good point, Cru. You're right. Brother Blood's "mother" always has worn a similar outfit. Maybe Lilith will be spared and will reappear in a more normal fashion that as one of Brother Blood's cohorts.

The art really was awful. One good thing about that though. Next issue will look that much better!

I read # 28.


The art was actually less hysterical this issue; it's the story I still can't get over.

The whole 2 issues kind-of smacks of FILLINITIS using big names like Simone and Liefeld to keep sales up, like that recent, dreadful OUTSIDERS 2-issue fill-in-- but without the star power. And the star power (Simone, mainly-- Liefeld was all I expected) just phoned it in.

Note to self: save money next time a fave book does a 2-issue fill-in, and skip 'em.

I'll be expecting Johns to write someting amazing for # 29 to make up for this.

For half a second, I thought Christina Cross (lamenameitis to go with fillinitis?) had a smidgeon of potential. But now I hope she's consigned to the dustbins of limbo.

New recurring villainesses for the Titans would be welcome. Let's not start with this one.

I'm also less than impressed with this new HAWK AND DOVE. I've read rumblings about a TITANS EAST miniseries or story set within the current title. I suppose the sister act's inclusion is inevitable. But I'd really rather see the new AQUAGIRL, Duela, FLAMEBIRD, heck even DOLL GIRL over this pair. They do rate over PANTHA, at least. Maybe. Unless she's now irrevocably paired with RED STAR. Then I'd rather see them.

I kind of liked the panel where the Titans where walking along the bones of some decomposing beast (I hope it was a beast...), though it turned out to only be window dressing.

That was a cool panel, I remember looking at it more than once, and not because it was amusing to me.

Maybe Hawk and Dove will fare better as written by Geoff.

Titans EAST? I guess that rules out Flamebird. Although, I'd bet Bette (tee hee!) would hightail it out East in a "New York" minute if she were asked.

I'll also be expecting Duela (Geoff obviously wants her around), Karen and Mal to be there.

I like this Hawk & Dove. But I need more of them. And I agree the last few issues of Titans I really haven't paid attention to what is happening...cause it read like a fill-in. I expect it will be like that until OYL.

I really thought issues 27 and 28 were a Crisis unto themselves...

TEEN TITANS 29

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Why *didn't* they erect a statue for Jason Todd? I'm surprised they didn't.

I haven't been following BATMAN books. I knew about the RED HOOD, but hadn't read him. I liked the psychological struggle between the two Robins-- as well as the fight scene. It was, perhaps, a bit of Robin overkill after the Robin/Kestrel fight last issue. Worthwhile, though.

I sympathized with Jason Todd, in a way- though I don't understand exactly what he was trying to accomplish. What would he have done if there'd been a statue of him with the other fallen Titans? Would he still have challenged Tim Drake?

I would've liked to have seen the Donna Troy scenes wherein she 'collected' Mal (Herald?) and Bumblebee. Raven has the interesting 'death's doors' speech-- followed by the unhooding of another Red Hood, this one poor zombified Lilith (how come death's other 'clawing' returnees aren't gray-skinned with splotchy spots?).

WOW--


the Red Hood really kicked Tim's ass. Didn't expect that.

Am worried about Lilith's appearance here-- figuartively AND literally.

Dude, anyone else notice that justabout every arc Tim gets his ass beat. Or, at the very least, his face messed up.

1st arc: Deathstroke.
Raven arc: Brother Blood.
Future arc: future!Tim.
Identity Crisis tie-in: Cyborg elbowed his face.
Into the Light: Dr. Light.
Insiders arc: Kon.
#29: Jason.

I think the only reason he didn't get his butt kicked in the Beast Boy arc was that it took place while he quit being Robin. Seriously, for a kid whose supposed to be "that good" he gets owned a lot.