Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Oh Yeah, That Forum: The Titans HWW Retro Reviews New Teen Titans (1980)

Thanks. I remember liking Tanghal's work when I read these issues the first time. Even now, I don't think he was a bad inker. But Chiaramonte's work shows how much better the art could have been.

I've never read any of the more recent Dr. Light stories, so I continue to think of him as a buffoon and barely competent super-villain of yore.

Intriguing insights. I'd never thought of Deathstroke as relating to Image or Captain America before.

I did think (though had forgotten) that he was similar to Taskmaster. I agree with your analysis of why Deathstroke became memorable and Taskmaster did not.

When Deathstroke first appeared, I remember thinking, "Here's another badass mercenary, a sort of Punisher with martial arts skills." Such characters have never interested me, and it took a long time for Deathstroke to engender any feeling in me other than boredom whenever he appeared. I think it was around the time he was revealed to be working with Tera that he evolved into something other than what I expected. But, on re-reading NTT # 2, I can see that the seeds or originality had already been carefully planted by Wolfman: the family angle, the personal motivation, the fact that he appears (sans mask) to be sophisticated yet (in costume) he talks like a common thug.

For a super-strong character who isn't muscley, look no further than tiny butterfly maiden Iritt in Starsearchers! [/end plug]


I dropped it a few months back, but Taskmaster was FINALLY being written as a character worth something in AVENGERS THE INITIATIVE at the time.

The first appearance of Deathstroke didn't really do much for me. Like many of you, the best scenes in those issues were the quiet, character-driven moments.

And although Wolfman took great pains to make us love Starfire, she was another character that for some reason, I never really warmed up to. I think because it was telegraphed so blatantly that she and Robin were gonna be an item, that I never wanted it to happen.

I agree with Matt about Starfire. In theory, her lack of inhibitions and her battle-lust should have gotten me to adore her, but there was something missing that I've never quite been able to put my finger on. I liked Donna and Raven much better.

In the beginning, I resented Raven for taking Lilith's spot on the team. I STILL think that since Lilith had no origin at the time, she could have been Trigon's daughter and the storyline would have worked the same, but with added ties to Titans history.

That being said, I grew to love Raven eventually.

I guess Wolfman and Wein felt the team needed as much new blood as possible.

Duela could've been Trigon's Daughter!

lol, now wouldn't THAT have been interesting?

Funny, I never thought of Raven as a replacement for Lilith. Lilith had some kind of witchy ESP powers, but couldn't teleport, for example.

Given how Raven is used in the stories (manipulating Wally, for example), I think it works much better with a wholly new character who didn't have any fan investment.

I was indifferent to Starfire because she was obviously created to be a sex kitten from space: someone meant to appeal to fanboys' (and fangirls') primal lusts. (A hot chick who doesn't mind going around naked? Who's gonna argue with that?) I tend to resent such blatant manipulation or appeals to prurient interests.

But I think Wolfman did an outstanding job of fleshing out (pun not intended) her personality and back story. She definitely comes off as the most sympathetic Titan this early on.

I do agree that it ended up coming off better that way,

New Teen Titans # 4
Feb. 1981
“Against All Friends!”
Co-Creators: Marv Wolfman & George Pérez
Inker: Romeo Tanghal
Letterer: Ben Oda
Colorist: Adrienne Roy
Editor: Len Wein

Summary: Raven catches up with the JLA as six members—Hawkman, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Atom, Batman, and Zatanna—attack three alien sorcerers on an extra-dimensional rock. The sorcerers are attempting to keep the demon Trigon out of our dimension, but the JLAers don’t know that. They think the “emanations of evil” that Zatanna detected come from the sorcerers themselves, and they ignore Raven’s appeals to reason.. Raven seeks help from her mother, Arella, at the stately paradise of Temple Azarath; however, the temple is pledged to non-violence at any cost. They also want nothing to do with Raven since she left them previously, so Arella sends her wayward daughter back to earth.

Landing in Titans Tower, Raven is astonished to see the other Titans--who remember nothing of their encounters with the Fearsome Five. At first hysterical, she calms down long enough to tell the Titans about Trigon, the sorcerers, and the JLA. The Titans conclude that they have but one goal: “to destroy the Justice League!” As they run off, Raven realizes too late that they have been mentally reprogrammed by the Fearsome Five.

The Titans attack the JLA aboard the latter’s satellite headquarters, after the wizards have given the JLA the slip. The Titans gain the advantage as the JLAers hold back, not wanting to harm their friends. Raven pops in and frees the Titans from their mental programming by creating an illusion of the JLAers crumbling to dust. After the Titans come to their senses, the three sorcerers transport them to the other dimension in order to assist in keeping Trigon at bay.

Inevitably, the JLA shows up, still convinced that the sorcerers are the evil ones. The two super-teams resume their battle until Trigon blasts the sorcerers to kingdom come.

The Titans rebuke the JLA for interfering. However, the older heroes reveal that they had previously refused to help Raven after Zatanna detected evil in her. (Not in me, Raven says: in my heritage.) Zatanna also reveals that Raven has been manipulating Kid Flash into thinking he’s in love with her. When Raven admits the truth, the Titans abandon her.

Review: Once again, a shaky premise mars what is otherwise an outstanding issue full of conflict, plot turns, and emotional resonance.

The premise of two super-teams battling each other usually stems from a misunderstanding of some sort, and, too often, the misunderstanding isn’t very convincing. In this case, the JLA detects evil coming from the sorcerers, puts two and two together to come up with five, and decides that the sorcerers must be stopped. One would think that seasoned heroes would have learned not to accept things at face value and to at least hear the wizards out. If they do, of course, the story would go in a different direction and not have to involve the Titans at all. Because the JLAers have to act like idiots in order to factor into this story, this qualifies as an “idiot plot.”

Robin’s lecture of Batman that the Titans are not a “junior Justice League” ironically echoes the threeboot Legion’s “Eat it, Grandpa!” mentality. Once again, the kid heroes are misunderstood and prevented from fulfilling their potential by fuddy duddy adults. In the Titans’ case, this idea would be more convincing and have considerably more impact if the JLA truly did treat the Titans as lesser. But aside from a brief remark from Batman, there’s no indication of condescension in this story. Instead, the central conflict is based on the JLA prejudging the wizards, not the Titans. Robin’s declaration of independence thus falls flat.

And that’s a shame as the story’s strengths are considerable. Though super-team battles are as common as dandruff flakes, this one rises above the masses because Wolfman knows his heroes and writes compelling scenes of emotional conflict. After Robin defeats Green Lantern (by wrapping his yellow cape around the latter’s power ring), he comes face to face with Batman. Condescendingly, Batman says, “All right, Robin, that’s quite enough!” as if he had just caught his ward teasing the dog (Ace the Bat-Hound?). Later, Robin accuses Batman of “putting [him] down for months.” There is a real sense of generational conflict between these two heroes, who had once been like father and son. Batman feels that he is still the authority figure. Robin thinks otherwise. Their dialogue echoes the universal conflict between adults and their teenaged offspring. This is one of those rare times when a super-hero battle transcends the confines of its genre.

Wolfman and Pérez also cram an incredible amount of story into this single issue, yet none of it feels rushed. Most pages have six to nine panels (with some having even more), and each panel moves the story forward. Nothing is wasted, and there is never a dull image. Skillful storytelling such as this puts the modern practice of story decompression to shame.

In the confines of this single issue, we learn Trigon’s origin, get some more background on Raven (including a hint about her true parentage), are introduced to more supporting players (Arella and the Temple Azarath), and receive an update on last issue’s villains – all seamlessly woven into the main plot without distracting from it. Furthermore, Raven advances as a character as we learn just what she is capable of and how far she will go to get the Titans to support her cause.

Raven functions as our protagonist in this issue, and she serves the role well. As we learn more about her, we sympathize with her desire to save earth and her frustration at being unable to convince both the JLA and the temple to help. We understand why she felt it necessary to manipulate Wally, even though we may not agree with her actions. After being turned down twice by adults who should know better, perhaps she felt that deception was her only chance. It’s heartbreaking when her scheme falls apart in the end and when the JLA and the Titans walk off in separate directions, leaving her alone. (The JLA had Zatanna, of course, but one wonders how the Titans will get back home without Raven.)

Of course, we know that the break-up is only temporary, but our emotions are being pulled through the wringer even as we wonder how, logically, the Titans can get back together. This is the sort of writing that elevated NTT to the best of its genre and occasionally surpassed the expectations of that genre.

This is one of my favorite issues. Wolfman was really tuned in to all things DCU and Perez seemed to relish the challenge of putting as much as possible into a single issue.

This stands out, for me, as the issue where George Perez became something other than just a great comic book artist. I always enjoyed his work before. With this issue, I started to think of him as God like.

Pérez's work is outstanding on this issue (particularly the establishing shot of Temple Azarath), but I think it's important to stress that NTT was a team effort, particularly between Wolfman and Pérez. Wolfman's writing should not be overlooked.

I met Wolfman at a con a few years ago and heard him give a panel presentation. He said that he and Pérez were of one mind on the Titans, and that's why the quality of the book suffered after Pérez left. I think # 4 demonstrates how well they worked together.

No doubt. I absolutely agree that the chemistry between Wolfman and Perez is what made this era of the Titans one of the great runs in comic's history. That was evident from the beginning - the DCCP preview and issue #1. Perez's work on issue four really stood out, though, for the beautiful images of both the Titans and the League in action.

Also we saw Raven's face for the first time in this issue.

New Teen Titans # 5
Mar. 1981
“Trigon Lives!”
Co-Creator/Writer: Marv Wolfman
Guest Penciller: Curt Swan
Inker: Romeo Tanghal
Co-Creator/Cover Art: George Pérez
Letterer: Ben Oda
Colorist: Adrienne Roy
Editor: Len Wein

Plot Summary: Raven implores the Titans to come back, but they refuse. From his own dimension, Trigon taunts Raven and sends his monstrous lackey, Goronn, to attack her. She sends her astral self to once again beg the Titans for help; this time, they agree—except for Kid Flash, until he receives some sympathetic coaxing from Cyborg. With considerable effort, the Titans defeat Goronn, whom they mistake for Trigon. The real Trigon then appears and blasts everybody into unconsciousness.

The Titans wake up back at Titans Tower, where Raven has transported them. She tells them more of her background and her reasons for forming the Titans. She had hoped that they would have months to learn to work together as a team before Trigon appeared, but the latter has breached the dimensional barrier sooner than expected. Simply put, the Titans are not ready to face him.

Nevertheless, the Titans rush to fight Trigon when the latter appears over New York City and begins causing destruction. The demon easily defeats the heroes by turning their powers against them. Meanwhile, Raven transports herself to Temple Azarath and again pleads with its inhabitants to intervene and save earth; again, they refuse.

Trigon appears and threatens to kill everyone at the temple, including Raven’s mother (and Trigon’s former bride), Arella. However, Raven transports the Titans to the temple, where they fight Trigon once more and lose. This time, Raven makes a bargain with Trigon: she will go with him to rule over his own dimension if he promises to leave earth alone. Trigon accepts, and he and Raven vanish before Kid Flash can call out that he loves her.

Review: Although these reviews focus primarily on the writing of the series, I want to mention that, although Curt Swan is a more than able substitute for Pérez, my favorite part of the issue is the cover. The foreground action is impressive enough (Goronn looks more dangerous than he turns out to be); however, it’s Pérez’s breathtaking view of the temple against a star-filled sky that won me over. There’s something about the Titans swinging into battle (literally, in Robin’s case) against the multi-level grandeur of the temple that evokes . . . I dunno, a sense of epic adventure. This cover, more than any other so far, captures what I think the New Teen Titans were about: youthful heroes coming of age amid massive adult surroundings and challenges. The cover almost seems to mirror the story’s theme that the Titans are not ready to take on this responsibility—but one day they will be.

Now, on to the story . . .

This issue rushes headlong towards something of an early climax for the series. Trigon, the reason for the team’s existence, has come to earth and, ready or not, the Titans have to do something about it. For the most part, the story is exciting and well-intentioned. It strives to make a serious point about the heroes’ valiant struggle even though they clearly cannot win. However, as with most issues so far, it is also hampered by clichéd writing and melodrama.

For example, there’s Trigon himself. Creating an “ultimate villain” is always hard, and Wolfman and Pérez give it their all. Trigon certainly looks impressive and original, with his lobster skin, two sets of eyes, and antlers. In truth, though, Trigon is pretty much a run-of-the-mill extra-dimensional demon out to destroy our universe for the thrill of it. How does he go about getting his kicks? By disrupting traffic and knocking down buildings in New York City. ‘Cause, y’know, NYC is the center of our universe.

(To be fair, Trigon may have been drawn to the Big Apple because that’s where Raven happened to be. Still, the panels of Trigon flying over city, causing destruction for the “gnats” below, smack of cliché and pettiness. One would think that a demon of Trigon’s supposed stature and power would attack capital cities or even natural structures such as mountains to demonstrate his power. Instead, he plays with the “gnats.”)

In order to show how powerful Trigon is, Wolfman has to show how unprepared our heroes are. While this idea has plenty of merit and could be used to show our heroes’ bravery in the face of overwhelming odds (which Wolfman does attempt to show; see below), its execution is weak. Once again, a mere five issues into their own comic, the New Teen Titans are routed by a villain; the only real victory they’ve had so far was defeating the Gordanian slavers in the first issue. Is Wolfman rushing headlong to a climax too soon? It would be nice to get a sense that our heroes can win—against, for example, some less important villains—before going up against Trigon. Early victories could have made them overconfident, and their defeat here would have been far more painful.

But instead of real emotion, Wolfman resorts to melodrama: overwrought scenes of Raven tearfully defying her father and simplistic scenes of the Temple Azarath inhabitants (priests?) willing to sacrifice earth in order to preserve peace at all cost. Such scenes are meant to convey the idea that Trigon is a real threat and that only the Titans stand in his way. However, Wolfman’s approach has all the subtlety of Sarah Palin: Never mind the facts; give us moral outrage.

There are, granted, some very good character moments, such as Robin wondering why Raven picked him for the team and Raven telling him that he has the makings of a leader. Or Cyborg stepping out of his clichéd Angry Young Black Man role and serving as the voice of reason, first by interceding in a fight between Dick and Wally and then by coaxing Wally into admitting his feelings for Raven.

However, other characterization is heavy handed. After such wonderful and surprising use of Cyborg, above, Wolfman has him hesitate before going into battle because Vic is “a little scared” of being a super-hero. (Gotta have somebody to remind us that going into battle is dangerous.) Kid Flash acts like a jerk throughout and announces he is quitting the Titans twice. Granted, he is in emotional turmoil over his feelings for Raven and her manipulation of him, but he comes off as so irrational that one might wonder who’s really manipulating whom.

Most of the other Titans go through the usual tropes. Changeling cracks jokes. Starfire impetuously rushes into battle. Wonder Girl serves the needs of the plot and nothing more.

Melodrama isn’t the only problem; the story also suffers from lack of organization. On Page 15, Wolfman and Swan carefully craft a sequence of panels in which each Titan rushes into battle accompanied by a large caption telling us who they are and what they are feeling or thinking. However, it is far too late in the story for such exposition. On the screen, this type of sequence would build suspense by letting the viewer supply the emotions and thoughts; on the comic book page, it’s clunky and slows the story down.

Another organizational problem comes five pages later, just after the Titans are summoned to Temple Azarath. Robin wastes valuable time telling us how Trigon ignored them after Raven departed the previous battlefield and how Kid Flash figured his way out of Trigon’s trap. Wouldn’t it have been better to show these events happening in “real time” rather than slowing the story down with a flashback and a flashback within a flashback?

All of this isn’t to say that NTT # 5 is a bad read. It accomplishes what Wolfman set out to do: present our heroes’ first unsuccessful battle with Trigon and make us care even more for Raven (who emerges as the only truly interesting Titan so far). However, it’s not the penultimate chapter one could have hoped for.

At least the art continued to be a bargain for the price of admission. My only quibble with Curt Swan’s stellar substitution is that he often depicts Raven as if she’s wearing a Batman-style cowl, with forehead shadow extending below her pupil-less eyes. At times, however, Swan’s straightforward super-hero renderings are more welcome than Pérez’s ornate flourishings.

The “address the reader directly so she can’t miss your main point” dept.: Robin on p. 23: “Peace just doesn’t happen. You have to work to maintain it . . . struggle to preserve it.”

The “foreshadowing the catchphrase of another fictional universe” dept.: Trigon on p. 9: “Resistance is futile . . .”—more than eight years before the first appearance of the Borg.

Apparently, I've not only killed this thread but the Titans forum, as well. Nobody has posted here since July 1.

Are people tired of the Titans? Tired of Titans reviews? Too much verbiage? Nobody remembers reading this issue?

I'd love to continue doing reviews and to read others' thoughts. If interest has waned, though, I'll stick to inane posts.

[sulks ]

I'm sorry I haven't read your reviews. I'm gonna have to give them another look. I want more people to stop by the Titans area as well.