Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Visionaries of Tomorrow Glen Cadigan and Twomorrows Legion Companion

Well you may not be right because it was my quess too; we will have to see........

Anyone want this interview in WORD format e-mail I have a couple of illustrations too.
LLLater
Kevin

Some up-to-date information about Legion Companion, as well as a link to the re-colored cover art, is in this thread in the Lightle section.

All approvals have been received, the book will be on press this week, and they're anticipating a publication date of about 9 November.

Thanks go to Scott (Lightning Lad) for providing this, the back cover to the book in question:

Hey guys,

I was wondering if any of you were a little disappointed with this book?

Yes, the interviews were fantastic and insightful and the sketches and art were superlative but I felt a little disappointed.

I certainly felt that the Legion deserve the same treatment as was afforded to the Justice Society in their 'companion' by giving an issue by issue breakdown etc.

Obviously this would have been a very weighty tome indeed but does anyone know of any publication like this?

I just got the Legion Companion a couple of days ago -- I'd seen a copy previously and was seriously considering whether I wanted to buy it, given the rather steep price.

Now that I have it, I'm fairly pleased with it. There is obviously a lot of material, and it'll take me a while to get through all of it.

Still, as you pointed out, there could have been so much more (or instead) that I'd have really liked -- like an issue by issue breakdown, for example. Even something like a Legion timeline, or synopsis of the different eras, would have been greatly appreciated (i.e., some stuff that's more like what was found in the role-playing supplement that came out a few years ago).

I have a feeling that I'm not really part of the core audience for the Companion -- there are a lot of creators that I haven't particularly followed, and including lengthy interviews with those people really doesn't add anything for me. I think the Companion, as it's been written, is more for long-time fans of the Legion who have been following closely its many creative teams over the years.

Overall I vote I am "PLEASED".

What I found disappointing is the little-to-no focus on the postboot LEGION, which-- like it or not-- is now a 10-year part of the Legion's history.

I liked the Companion but would have also liked a Legion checklist and timeline of the team. Both of these items would have been a benefit to long-time fans and newbies to the title. And I'm sure John Censullo (sp?) would have gladly given permission for the use of his ultimate checklist.

Although, that checklist is currently up to 237 pages in a Word doc. It might need a whole book of its own.

I am okay with not getting an issue by issue breakdown, as with the JSA Companion. After all, with the Legion that type of thing has been done to death, in print and on the web.

My only quibble is with some of the creators not interviewd, most especially Karen Berger and most all of the postboot creators.

I'm greatly displeased that Mike Nasser wasn't given more space in the Legion Companion. This could (and SHOULD) have been his Bible!

This may be heresy, but I'm not that pleased with it.

I'm glad I bought it - would have wondered what was in it otherwise - and I knew ahead of time that it was interviews with pre-boot creators. But it's sitting, mostly unread, on my shelf.
I started at the beginning, and the people from the early days don't seem that keen on the Legion - it was a bloody job, with office politics, and who were the characters anyways? It's good to read that, to remember that the comic is a very different experience for the fan, but I didn't have any keen interest to continue. I flipped through to look at the art, but there's a lot of other stuff I'd rather read. Maybe I should have started at the end...

Don't get me wrong. It's a good read and I like it.

It just could have been so much more....

A bit dismayed...

The book's title is Legion Companion. I'd wanted a book that could accompany me until the present-day Legion. IMO, they should've included the post-boot/post-ZH creative teams. While I didn't exactly appreciate the tailspin (IMHO)at the end before DnA took over, that creative team and DnA deserve a spot.

Instead this book reads like a tombstone, in that its all pre-boot. As if the Legion's a memory, and this is a trip down memory lane...

It was so good I need a volume 2 as soon as possible!

I am definitely NOT in the mood to post right now -- since I have no way of knowing, these days, if my posts will even be here tomorrow -- but I have to respond.

Do any of you have a reasonable conception of what Glen Cadigan went through to create this book? How many Legion creators refused to answer his inquiries in the first place about interviews? What hoops he had to go through to get clearances from every bloody lawyer who had his mitts on this material? (Especially DC itself, whose legal team alone delayed publication by two full months at the last minute.)

"Tombstone"? I'll give you tombstones, amigo. If this book had been delayed in publication by even five years, up to a third of the interviews would not have even been possible. That's how old some of the people are that Cadigan did contact.

And has anyone noticed that nearly all of the art that's not specific to a published issue was created within the last decade? By recent Legion creators, as commissions or convention art? Including those with preboot subjects?

And is there one friggin' word thus far about four full previously unpublished pages by Dave Cockrum, or a brand new color cover penciled by him, both of which would not have been pried loose for anything short of a project this size?

Yes, this is an interview book. It was never hidden as being such. When it's about the setup and fleshing-out (literally, in two dimensions) of a fictional world, aren't the thoughts of those who created it a prime focus?

The current Legion efforts trade upon, derive their characters from, and borrow unearned glory from 45 years of backstory -- isn't it reasonable that 35 of those years would tend to get the emphasis?

I apologize again for my bad mood, but with my being a contributor to this volume, it has to be said: Whether it's more general disenchantment, or not knowing the grinding wheels of publishing, you aren't really understanding what a phenomenal and unlikely achievement this is to even put such a book in your hands. Nothing says you have to know, of course. It just disturbs me to see so many not realizing its context.

A postscript: I applaud Frog Kid's unabashed enthusiasm. Unfortunately, TwoMorrows is highly unlikely to release a second volume, and that's nearly all DC's fault.

The book had already been solicited in Diamond's Previews when the two-month delay happened, for no more reason that I can gather (as a semi-outsider) than power-tripping on the lawyers' parts. They'd already given authorization as to the use of trademarks and, even more crucial to its appeal, creators' commissioned art.

Such a two-month delay gives a very bad taste to the mouths of small comic-book-store proprietors across the country, and probably had a bad effect on the finances of -- and prospects for future books from -- a small publisher such as TwoMorrows.

I'm really pissed off at DC, and the asinine distribution system for works such as this, more so than at any of you.

I don't think you're the one in a bad mood, Greybird!

I'm about 3/4ths thru reading the book. AMAZING piece of work. There's at least 2 creators in here I'm getting the urge to get in contact with, based on the interviews. One of these isd Al Plastino, who I knew virtually NOTHING about before his interview here. He was rather critical of a lot of things, but mostly the bad attitude of management. I've worked for enough lousy bosses to understand EXACTLY what he was referring to. As much as I admire Curt Swan's art, on a personal level I'd rather meet Jim Mooney. I really wish he'd done more Legion work over the years! The Jim Shooter interviews were rather baffling. Now, I genuinely don't know WHAT to make of this guy. I know he's very talented—I know his intentions are in the right place. But like so many who've made mistakes, he completely sidesteps them or tries to pass blame off on others. (At least he didn't sound egomaniacal in his own defense as Mort Weisinger did!!) Steve Lightle—what can I say? He sabotaged himself with lack of self-confidence! Greg LaRocque was GOOD—but no matter how good he was, I always considered him a step DOWN from Lightle—as was Broderick a step DOWN from LaRocque… (The book, in my eyes, was in a tailspin for YEARS artistically, before Stuart Immonen came along—how I WISH he'd come back someday!!)

One could say this book was a celebration of the Legion—the REAL Legion. A friend of mine in England recently put it this way. The characters he knew and loved STILL exist—DC's just not doing stories about them anymore. From the Mordruverse issue on, EVERY Legion story has been an “Elseworlds”—as has every Post-Crisis DC story in general.

A VOL.2 focusing on the Post-Boot would be nice! EVENTUALLY… But how about we let the current people establish a history WORTH loking back on first?

Worth every penney.

I see the point about those thinking "companion" would be something to help them read the book. Be nice if the last Secret Origens had done that. This was more of a history book, and a good one at that.

I also would hope the PTBs get off their high horses and make the path to a Volume II a bit cleaner. If they, DC, won't put out the material that has the fans' interest, let someone else. As long as DC has rights to make sure the material is of a certain quality, they benefit.

Cramey, don't let it languish on your shelf.

Do what I did and skip around.

Go to the creators such as Cockrum, Levitz, Giffen and the Bierbaums and then you'll feel more inclined to read the other sections, I think.

I'm pleased with it, though some things could have been better.

The most obvious strengths were in shedding light on some early creators, like Plastino, and in others' behind-the-scenes glimpses of their work on the Legion. But I also feel that some interviews went on for too long and didn't touch on enough relevant topics. While it's useful to know how creators broke into the industry, much of that information could have been condensed.

I, too, wish postboot creators had been included.

While Cadigan's efforts should be appreciated, that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't be critical of his work. How is any author supposed to improve without honest feedback from his or her target audience?

Nope.

While things like timelines and issue-by-issue breakdowns would be nice, I really appreciated the focus on the creators as opposed to the characters.

The lack of post-boot stuff is a valid critique, I think, but if it had been up to me and there were space considerations I would have gone with the look at the earlier creators as well.

I don't have any dispute with Cadigan's work and interviews. It's an excellent historical reference work. Ending with the pre-boot creators is a logical break. There should be a similar work done for the post-boot creators, but perhaps after a few more years have passed. It would be great if Cadigan (or somebody) began those interviews now, given that people die, drop out of sight and forget things over time.

It would also be good to have a book of "fact" compilations, summaries of the issues, the characters....like the Help File in print. To put it all in one book might have priced the volume out of the range of many of us.

I wasn't disappointed with the work itself, just the reality of the comics business as communicated in the interviews. I was visiting one of these grand ornamental gardens once, and commented to one of the gardeners about what a great place it was. "Great? You don't work here," he answered. Not unlike the comics industry; it's fun to be just a fan.

Greybird,

I may not be included in the making of Legion Companion, but I certainly do know what kind of effort goes into developing a book such as this. I have worked in publishing then advertising since I started working 10 years ago and I'm not unappreciative of Mr. Cadigan's effort at all. I know how difficult it is to get interviews, or even a word, with such people. I made several books on local history and architecture that spans generations. I also am aware that they are fairly old, and that they could've passed on, uninterviewed, and with us poorer for the absence of their insight.

I never scoffed at Mr. Cadigan's efforts. In fact, I appreciated his book enough, on the strength of the name LEGION alone, without any idea what to expect, to plunk the equivalent of 25 U.S. dollars on the counter to buy it instead of just reading through it at my comic book store. I'm essentially dismayed at what I perceive as a lack in content. Not effort, content. CONTENT.

You mentioned in many, many words that the current Legion borrows 35 years worth of characters, stories from these creators. My perspective is, the Legion as a concept is now 45 years old, and the last 10 years have been because of the "newer" creators. I believe that the mere fact there's a 45-year celebration for the Legion rather than a 35-year one is because of these newer creators.

You've made it abundantly clear that you do not agree with the direction DC is taking to publish the Legion, but that's just you. Whether a creative team's run is good or not, as "judged" by fans, is not the question. Your statement that they (post-boot creators) have not earned a place in this book is just your opinion, not mine.

I appreciate the old guard. Without them, the idea for the Legion would not have been planted and grown to what it is today. But for a comic book, creation alone is just one facet of "comic history". I think its also the perpetuation of a comic book that counts, that makes a book like the Legion Companion possible.

The Larocque run on the Legion made me drop the book before, but his inclusion here is accepted by me because, whether I liked his work or not, his stay on the book has contributed to the growth and longevity of the Legion.

You write...

"Yes, this is an interview book. It was never hidden as being such. When it's about the setup and fleshing-out (literally, in two dimensions) of a fictional world, aren't the thoughts of those who created it a prime focus?"

If it was just all about one moment in creation, why not stop with the gentlemen that started it all? Why not just make a book about that one issue?

I think it's because a comic book like the Legion is in a constant state of re-creation. That's why people like Levitz are there because they've been part of the creation of the Legion, not just in one point in time but in the entire "life" of the Legion. As such, post-boot writers like Peyer, McCraw, Stern, Abnett, Lanning and artists like Moy, Moder, Collins, Kolins, Coipel and Batista have been "creating" the Legion over the last 10 years and have earned to be there as well.

Abstractharmony asked if we were pleased with the book or not. My reply was that I was dismayed because the newer creators aren't there. In my opinion, the Legion is still being fleshed out to this day, and I was hoping that the newer creative teams would be included.

And no, I'm not having a bad day. Life's too good to have bad days and if ever I did have a bad day, I'd never take it out on any of you.

Nothing personal was intended, and of course nobody has to like the book simply due to the effort of the editor/interviewer. (Comments posted here, though, won't get to Glen Cadigan, as he doesn't use this site yet. Try the LegionUP Group .)

I admit to feeling a zinger, and reacting to it, on Igee's use of "tombstone." That bothered me. Not simply because it ends up being too dismissive -- especially with so many interviews actually being lively and provocative -- but also because of the age-of-creators factor.

Casual disappointment with such projects is a sore point with me, I suppose. It's not that Cadigan (or TwoMorrows) is getting particularly rich from such a limited-print-run project, one that represented over 18 months of solid effort on Glen's part.

{[...] I believe that the mere fact there's a 45-year celebration for the Legion rather than a 35-year one is because of these newer creators. }

The title wouldn't be around without the older ones who shaped it. Nor would most of the cast of characters be readily developed. The post-boot didn't flesh them out in nearly as much detail. It didn't have to do so. The audience knew what the Big Three, Brande, the U.P., many other elements were, and it could build on that.

The Legion titles have rested upon two elements, post-boot, far more than many want to admit: the inertia of a long, well-watched publishing history, and former writer Paul Levitz being the publishing head of DC. Any other title(s) this turbulent, creator-wearying, and far from stellar in sales would have been discarded long ago. Legion creators have been talented recently, but Legion patrons have been potent, and we can't forget that second factor.

{ You've made it abundantly clear that you do not agree with the direction DC is taking to publish the Legion, but that's just you. }

I have? And nobody else has? Neither, I fear, is correct. I've said on-line, since the new "Legion" issue 1, that the storytelling has improved markedly. Even Coipel's art improved greatly before he left.

They're discarding the current artists -- and, yes, DnA as well -- a bit prematurely, but at least "Legion" is getting some attention as to bringing in both fresh and established talent. Recent storylines have been dredging up too many established villains -- they need a Shooter's input -- but what they've done to use Ras and the others has been dramatic and usually well-turned.

{ Your statement that they (post-boot creators) have not earned a place in this book is just your opinion, not mine. }

I'll take your word as to its not being yours, but it's not my statement, either. Profh did say it. Please do look more closely before making attributions.

The post-boot creators certainly deserve attention. Fortunately, they'll remain around for a while yet, unlike Al Plastino's generation. Unfortunately, too many of them are embedded in current projects to be truly candid about their past ones, and they clearly would be cautious about alienating potential or current employers or work sources.

(That, I would gather, is why someone like pre-boot editor Karen Berger was not interviewed, despite her long Legion history. Unlike, say, freelancer Steve Lightle, she's employed by DC. How candid or useful could she be? At the very least, I'd think she'd have used too many euphemisms. Paul Levitz, again, is the head honcho, and thus can exempt himself from those concerns.)

{[...] If it was just all about one moment in creation, why not stop with the gentlemen that started it all? Why not just make a book about that one issue? }

I wasn't talking at all about "one moment." It's reasonable to contend, though, that nobody post-boot has shaped the basic characters, settings, plots, or even personal looks of the Legion as profoundly as was done in several pre-boot eras. Even DnA wrote new plots, not upending-the-Legion-universe plots.

And as to "bad moods" ... I was just venting. Other matters bothered me. (I don't stay bothered forever, though, or anywhere near to it.) That shouldn't motivate discussion or one's readiness to post. I've made that mistake at times.

Fat Cramer: “I wasn't disappointed with the work itself, just the reality of the comics business as communicated in the interviews. I was visiting one of these grand ornamental gardens once, and commented to one of the gardeners about what a great place it was. "Great? You don't work here," he answered. Not unlike the comics industry; it's fun to be just a fan.”

Oh, God. I know EXACTLY what you mean. I almost got depressed after reading a lot of those interviews in the middle of the book. All those people coming into the industry, doing work, LEAVING the industry… all during a period where personal family problems repeated kept me from doing the same!!

But then I got the the 2nd Keith Giffen interview. Now that WAS disturbing. GOOD GOD, doesn't ANYONE involved want to admit that, editorial interference and bad decisions aside, it was just SO HIRRIBLY BADLY DONE on top of everything else??? BAD plotting, BAD page designs, BAD panel layouts, BAD BAD pencilling, BAD inking… JESUS!!! And with an attitude like his, the guy should NEVER, NEVER be allowed anywhere near the series again!!! He “couldn't get arrested” for awhile there? GOOD for him!!! At least he ADMITS he's “missing that part of his brain that tells him what's not appropiate to do”. His recent JUSTICE LEAGUE proves where his genius and talents lie—but KEEP HIM AWAY from The Legion!!!

I'm also not too crazy with most of Tom Bierbaum's section. But he DID say one thing I agreed with—VEHEMENTLY. “You don't resolve a complicated storyline by wiping out thirty-fice years of continuity. You do it by having one issue that either explains away what the questions are, or you ignore the points of contention until people forget about them, or you do a plot twist to get rid of the undesireable elements.” It sounds like Tom would have been a better EDITOR than he was a WRITER—given the chance.

At the beginning the “the mess” (one way to refer to it), all that needed to be done was NEVER mention Superboy again—until editorial policy changed to allow it again. WE DID NOT NEED a freakin' double-reboot (LSH #4-6). At the end, especially after Giffen blew the Earth up in a “temper tantrum” (HIS OWN WORDS!!!)… well—anybody remember DALLAS—or BRENDA STARR, for that matter, where soebody wakes up and “it never happened”??? the entire TMK run was an ELSEWORLDS to begin with—ALL we had to do was GO BACK to the end of The Magic Wars, and start again from there.

And you know what? They could still do it—RIGHT NOW. In the 70's, you had the JLA being published at the same time as ALL-STAR COMICS with the Earth-2 JSA. Why NOT an Earth-1 LEGION? The Archives and the DC Direct action figures are selling better than the new book, WHY NOT do a book to tie in with them, for ALL the fans lost thanks to ZERO HOUR ?

(Sorry—just couldn't help myself! Heehee)