Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Visionaries of Tomorrow Shooter off Legion?

I still think this Legion series is ending with issue 50 and a new book will be starting with a new number 1 with whatever version of the team is the focus after Lo3W. It just seems to convientent that the 50th issue of the current series will come out so close to the final issue of the Lo3W mini to me.

Heh. I liked the idea that they would restart with issue #600 rather than #1.

Unfortunately they just miss the boat. Following the numbering that Nightcrawlwr supplied to Barry Kitson, (If the numbering continued from Superboy/Superboy & the LOSH/LOSH), issue #50 would be #603.

EDIT: Though I just realised that would mean that #600 would be #47...What is it about that magic "47"?

Honestly, no matter the outcome of L3W, I hope bridges aren't being burned between Shooter and DC. The consensus in many threads is that in general the DCU has been going downhill as a source of compelling stories (with several notable exceptions, of course) since Identity Crisis. It would do DC well to keep a proven universe-builder like Shooter in their writing stable to complement their current big gun, Geoff Johns. DC could certainly use more minds like Shooter crafting the DCU and less like Winick, for example. Legion or no, put Shooter on a few key titles and a big event or two, and the DCU would surely begin an upturn in quality. What better braintrust than Shooter, Morrison and Johns to do this?

Don't forget Jim Starlin, James Robinson and Keith Giffen as universe builders... And I would love to see Ostrander and DeMatteis back swinging.

Ostrander is definitely oustanding, and I am very much looking forward to Robinson's upcoming return. Robinson definitely seems to be coming back with a vengeance. Ostrander was always better, IMO, on more under the radar titles where he could spin his stories. But I'd certainly love to see more of that from him again beyond his recent Suicide Squad revival.

From what I hear, Starlin's recent DC stuff is hit or miss. No firsthand knowledge there.

Giffen has a good track record, too, though he's been a bit of a free agent of late, straddling DC, Marvel and some indies. Giffen with too much power scares me, though!

DeMatteis...don't know if he really would want to return in a larger comics writing role. I think the way his style's evolved, he's more of a Vertigo type now, not so much a universe-builder.

Shooter--it's just a no-brainer that he could be a real shot in the arm for DC's line. He's probably built more universes than just about anyone. Quite a resume, he brings!

Yes, indeed. In fact, I'll pass Secret Six just to prove how much I wanted a Suicide Squad back. And I don't think Rucka gets anywhere near him on what the Spectre is about.

I liked both minis (Death of New Gods and Mystery In Space). This is where Starlin thrives, in big space stuff.
Giffen is DC exclusive now. And we shouldn't forget how he recreated the Justice League first and then the whole DC galaxy (at one point, he had GL, L.E.G.I.O.N. and LSH). It seems he is about to do the same for the magic side of DC now.
Not an Universe builder, for sure, but he is character-driven. I am missing this at DC now.


Surely. But I don't see DC opening too many branches for him. Has he given any new interviews recently? None...

If you're talking universe-building, then I'd nominate Morrison up there. He's done so in the past with JLA, New X-Men & All-Star Superman. IMO he has a knack for moving characters & their stories forward.

Though dwelling more on rejuvenating ideas, I'd consider Johns a universe-builder in terms of his ability to mesh seemingly disparate elements into a coherent & believable whole.

I agree, Igee. I mentioned Morrison 5 posts above with Shooter and Johns!

Hmmm... Superboy's posts at the bottom of the previous page have calmed me. His arguments plus DC giving Shooter's LSH the hardcover treatment tell me things are gonna be.... okay.

Wow, am I the lonely voice in the wilderness here. I'll say this up front: don't hate me for my heresy.

I've been pretty bored by Shooter's run so far. I know that the business of comics is built around the trade paperback and multi-issue story arcs now, but what the heck is taking so long? Am I the only one who feels like thirty years ago Shooter would have banged this story out in 24 pages and created a classic in the process? Why is it taking the team more issues to put a stop to these attacks than it did to shut down Darkseid? Darkseid! Hell, these guys closed the door on Mordru in a single issue once (ok, so it wasn't a very good issue, but still...)

I'm plugging along here waiting for Shooter to get to the point. And to stop writing endless battle scenes. Maybe I'm showing my age, but I'm getting pretty bored with those.

All this is not to say that I'm cheering the Action Legion. That story was fun and all, but I'd rather move forward. Much as I love the Legions of the past, one of the draws of the book for me through the years has been the new spin that each new era brought to the overall story. I really enjoyed the work that WaK did on the 3boot. I was really hoping that Shooter would bring something new with him. So far, I haven't seen it.

You are not the only one, as far as I've seen. But most of the criticism falls simply on pace. It's not the story and much less characterization. In fact, W&K was so much lacking on that it seemed about time a writer dealt with that.
I can say I don't feel this slowness, on the contrary. What I see is there is something very, very weird creeping on the background and - as a powerful enemy working on the background, it really should take some time for it to come up.
Meanwhile, I am so enjoying his portraits and Manapul's great dynamics... Definitely an enormous improvement over Waid and filler artists plaguing M&K run.

I don't know for sure he is on the book...but I don't think Johnston does either.


You know someting no one mentioned...Shooter could be disappointed at the response to his return to the book and it could be a simple matter of pride.


Either way...I want to see his epic concluded. If DC gives up on it with no conclusion I'll be upset. And 6-7 months from now, a year total is plenty of time for Shooter to capture an audience if it's possible. IF the book starts selling...DC isn't going to cancel it or dump it.

DC isn't going to lightly toss away $$$, especially any without the Siegel tax on it.

IF they the see possiblity of Shooter launching an entire Valiant Future in the 30th century(as he is capable of doing), they won't pass on that either. And the scope of what he has planned could be that big.

I think Shooter is pretty much the last straw for DC...I suspect they'll give his Legion every chance to succeed right up until the end.

FWIW, Shooter's coming closest to pulling it off of all the Post Crisis guys IMO. He's just not getting the readers.

I am currently reopening this subject due to this article here .
It now makes more sense to restate what my suspicions were: Shooter was virtually ran over by DiDio on Legion of 3 Worlds.
And to make it even clearer, Giffen states the mess in this GREAT Ambush Bug cameo, with an obligatory Legion reference:



UPDATE: Thanks, Nightcrawler, for the editing!

I'm right there with you. I think it's been too long setting up an enemy that I don't find engaging.

The argument can be made that this is allowing Shooter more time to focus on the characters.

Unfortunately, I hate most of his characterizations.
Like everyone else, eagerly anticipating his run, but it's going south pretty quickly for me.

Ditto me in too.

It lacks the freshness many/most Shooter concepts seem to have, and althogh some characterizations have been good, not all of them have.

For me, it is just the contrary. He has finally nailed what made LSH a decent book before 1994. Dense storytelling, long winding plots, multiple focus, characterization over "fist fighting".

I totally agree. here we are over 40 issues into the series, and we're just starting to find out who these characters are. that's an amazing lack of characterization by the previous writers. Unfortunately, I don't see the series lasting beyond L3W, so I don't think Shooter will get to the point he wanted to.

To me, that's a good thing. I don't know who Element Lad is anymore, and without Bouncing Boy, the Legion has no humanity. So, I'm looking forward to a return to a semblance their former selves, even if it's not exactly the same.

Too bad for Shooter though, the stories are good, and the characterization even better. He landed on a train that was already out of control, and wasn't given the time to right it. If allowed to continue, in a year from now, this would be a great book and all the Waid mistakes would be written over.

Me too. I had high hopes for Shooter's run but its left me pretty cold so far. I've been really shocked at the posters who have reacted so positively to it. Subjective and all that, but I'm really not enjoying this run that much at all other than the outstanding art. Legion is definitely not one of DC's strongest books right now.

I'm so bored with those monsters!

Unfortunately, nowadays, you have to do six issue arcs to fit in a trade paperback, hence long boring stories. During the Adventure era you would get excellent one or two issue stories, like the induction of KK,PP,FL and NK, the intro of the Fatal 5 and Suneater story or the Mordru two parter which is Superboy's favorite story and one of mine. I know I certainly would like shorter events so more characters could get used in different situations.

I don't know, but I don't see how we can relate long to boring necessarily. Levitz used to write very long stories, almost none of them boring. On the other hand, Judd Winick write "fast paced stories" most of them incredibly dull.
Also, we can't compare those early LSH stories in terms of character development to what is currently expected in a comic book. Either you will do something incredibly ethereal such as ALL-STAR Superman or you will be seen as simplistic.

Shooter's subplots are great, but his entire runs seems to consist of nothing but. Yeah, the alien androids are a big (often boring) threat, and no one knows why? We get it. 3 issues -- max would have been fine. Or better yet, tell some big stories while this is happening in the background and build up to it.

The characterization is ... different. Not bad, a bit out there at times.

I do wish he would have added to the membership or brought back some old favorites right up front.

More on Shooter's leaving of Legion.....

"It is true that there has been creative, editorial and suit divides at DC over DiDio's actions of late. Jim Shooter quit “Legion" (though leaving enough scripts so that no one will notice for quite some time)."

Full article is here:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16910

... which is exactly what we have thought at other topic discussions. He's been out at least since L3W has leaked (and I bet without his knowledge - even a different editorial team is dealing with it).
Shame on DC...