Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Avengers: The Initiative

Am I the only one who was unimpressed by this? Superhero boot camp just left me cold. And I hate this metahuman paramilitary thing that the Marvel Universe is going with these days. And what's wrong with some of these superheroes? I mean, I can see how some of the Avengers would have been ok with registration, but how many times in the past have the Avengers broken their government ties due to their trying to run the team? And now they are acting like a branch of the military? I'm just not feeling it.

I miss the old Marvel U, when heroes were just heroes, and not part of some form of government militia.

There were a couple of mentions here . Myself I'm just not interested in anything Avengers unless it is picking up some of the older collections.

I actually liked it. I was a big fan of GIJoe as a kid and this reminded meof that.

I know I've been asking why Marvel superheroes are not run by the government since I was a kid. I never asked that about DC characters cause it didn't matter. At Marvel since they are more "grounded" (I guess)I've always asked that. A superhero goverment team can still be fun I think. And while I hated Civil War it did ask and answer those questions I've always had.

I really enjoyed this issue. Got to see some Avengers as supporting characters. (Dr. Pym, Hank, Rage, Triathlong, Justice)

Ofcourse MVP was my favorite. Don't care for the others save Cloud 9.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">What makes me a bit confused is the killing of MVP. Everybody loves a winner. I was a tall athletic kid so I guess I always related to those characters not the shy bookworm type. We need more jocks in comics! Everyone wants to be Bouncing Boy these days. </span></span>

Copying what I said in the Dan Slott thread:

I bought my first AVENGERS comic today since that wretched "Disassembled" crapfest, AVENGERS THE INITIATIVE # 1.

I bought it for one and only one reason: Slott listed on the cover as writer.

I'm concerned that not even Slott could make me like what THE AVENGERS have become... This better not freakin' suck!

Well, I've read it now and I agree that MVP was my favorite. I don't think they're done with him yet.

It was okay but this odd new MARVEL where mutants have all lost their powers and superheroes are all government agents or else they're villains isn't shaping up to be a happy place.

I'll trust Slott for now and give him 3-6 issues to hook me.

All in all, # 1 was pretty okay... I'm interested in Komodo's backstory.

I'm not too keen on the whole superhero registering thing either. It's like a big allegory for what happens when formerly carefree kids grow up, stop having fun for fun's sake and decide there needs to be rules to playing. The whole things sucks some of the fun out of the concept of superheroes. One being that having powers is supposed to fulfill the fantasy of being *free* to do amazing things. Now there's paperwork and punishemnt if you don't follow the rules. This is like the perverted culmination of what Spider-Man started by stating "With great power comes great responsibility." Because now it's all responsibility and burden.

This was the first Avengers comics I've ever bought, I've never been a fan of them. And I did like it... oh and yeah they are definitley not done with MVP... one way or another we're gonna see more of him. For now I'm on board for the ride concerning this book.

Yeah his origin too cool just to get rid of the character.

Anybody else think that old reformed nazi is going to steal Armory's gunarm?

Oh and while I haven't seen anything from Hardball he might be cool. Hope to see more Ultra Girl!!!

Who's Ultra Girl?

Like I said in another thread, I haven't read an Avengers comic in years, so it doesn't mean much to me if they're acting out of character. I like the concept, for now, whether it will work long term, I'm not so sure.

I'm surprised how popular MVP is, I think he's a character that could get annoying in large doses. He just came across as too perfect, although I loved his scene with poor Cloud 9.

I really liked Cloud 9. Poor thing, she just wants to fly and they draft her!

I did not like Gauntlet, but it's possible I'll love to hate him. I seriously want to see Justice or Dani kick his ass.

It's interesting that they're taking away the powers of the unqualified. If they're taking them away, could they be giving them out, too? I'm thinking about Dani here, although Lord knows she doesn't need any more power complications. What happens if someone washes out and they can't take the powers away?

Why, Spellbinder, how did you miss my comments on Avengers: The Initiative in the All Avengers thread? Are you no longer following that thread? I'm hurt. :sniff: :boo-hoo:

Just kidding.

I approached the book with an open mind, but I came away feeling it was dreary and mean-spirited. I also think Marvel made a mistake changing it into an ongoing at the last minute. I predict that it'll be the first crack in the armor of the Avengers franchise. Of course, I could be wrong. And in the meantime, I'll keep browsing through it only because of Dani.

Hear, hear!

I flipped it open in the local store and wasn't impressed with some nobody dissing the New Warriors. (I didn't buy it. With the exception of the Thunderbolts issues that tied into Civil War, I've bought nothing tainted by that abomination, and have also dropped the Thunderbolts, as well as other Marvel titles, because of it...)

Gauntlet's working for Hank Pym, architect of the slaughter of thousands in whatever nameless European backwater Ultron massacred, and Tony Stark, famous for killing a senator on live television, and responsible for the deaths of two superheroes (one in the Armor Wars, one more recently), and he's making noise about power and responsibility?

If I were Justice, I would be on the run, after telekinetically dismantling that losers bionic arm and sticking it where the sun don't shine...

And hence the reason for the premise of New New New New Warriors becomes clear, no?

A lot of that is because Marvel deliberately hit the Rewind button on several aspects of Morrison's run. Although not on what a friend of mine charitably calls "the Scott/Emma freakshow." And Morrison's run was almost entirely self-contained for what it was - the only real spinoff was New Mutants v2, which used its' own characters.

And New Avengers is reliably nearer the top of the charts than New X-Men was.

Doubt it - specific premise by Slott, based on the landscape established by Millar. If it flunks (and notice how the logo layout makes the title look like just "Avengers" - 5-10 other books this month have identical "THE INITIATIVE" banners. A wee bit naughty, especially since the covers give more prominence to the Mighty Avengers team than anyone actually in the cast), it's just convincing Marvel that no-one but Bendis should write the Avengers...

Even if Reboot's predictions turn out to be true, I'll just be philosophical about it. C'est la vie.

What premise is that? I'm totally out of the loop in the Marvel Universe.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=106667
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=102799
http://www.legionworld.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=001760

Arachne, Pym is creating new superheroes. I think the new title Champions (with a guy called Kitson doing the art) will show us that.

I hope Dani does get some powers as well. Nice to see some cross-pollination. Always wanted Dani (& Sunspot) to join the Avengers. Hopefully Pym has a "serum" for her? I still think she should have Valkyrie powers.

Set, you bring up some good points. They are so hard on the New Warriors but Hank Pym (via Ultron) may be responsible for more deaths.

As for all the New Warriors bashing? This is Dan Slott. He's using it as a setup for the old Warriors to defend themselves. Justice? Rage? They are not going to let that fly, trust me. It will be addressed. Slott is going to stand up for the Warriors at some point if you ask me.

Arachne, Ultra Girl is the teen version of Ms. Marvel. She has kree infused powers and she is one of the trainees. (orange suit short blond hair).

Stealth, you already are at AI in your Avengers thread??? I need to catch up!!!

(i am drunk right now)

Don't drink and post! You look stupid just like me.

(this msg is for all the young posters and I, um, hit the wrong button)

There's no urgency. Cobie took over the chronology and the thread is currently at the end of the Johns era. What I do now is interject snarky remarks about current Avengers books.

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/May07/previews/initiative.html

A preview! <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">It appears MVP is alive. I understand he may look like Deathlok now or something but I hope they don't make him a villain. Just a tragic hero.</span></span>

Hmm, cool. I'm not looking at the preview, though.

Whew! I didn't think what they seemed to be hinting at in the preview would actually happen-- but it sure might've. I'm glad, as the character in question is one I like alot... though not in this identity.

I really wanted a more cohesive scene for the Texas Rangers (am I getting their name right?) Funny, I was thinking about Red Wolf the other day, and here he is... briefly (very).

Is the new tutor who I think it is? I didn't realize Trauma was actually a shape-changer, too. Guess I didn't read very closely. I still like Cloud 9 the best. And Justice.

I don't know. Who do you think the new tutor is?

It's <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Moonstar</span></span> if you really want to know.

I liked this a lot. I was afraid the instructors would be in minor rolls, but now it looks like they'll be getting equal time. Gauntlet's still a jerk, though. Someone needs to kick his ass.

I don't think MVP is alive, Jorge. Although he's still a factor in the story. The Nazi's planing something, I think.

I finally read #2 and loved it! Hank didn't die. Like Mystery Lad I hate that he is YJ again.

Arachne, yeah it appears MVP is quite dead.

I agree the instructors have nice roles. I like Justice in this very much thus far. The Beast and Dani Moonstar???

I am not sure about giving kids a jetpack so they can do an ariel battle against SHIELD. Kind of goes against the entire Initiative thing.

Love the Rangers. Living Lightning and no Firebird? What I love the most is that it reminds me of the old GIJOE very much!

I thought Firebird WAS there.

So I'm taking it the Rangers are Texas' official superteam?

I actually think the idea of a an official team in every state is a cool one. With Slott writing this, how long before the Great-Lakes Avengers/X-men show up?

Lash, I remember seeing her in a promo somewhere before but not this comic. I wish American Eagle was there. Warren Ellis writing him very good over in T-Bolts. Sadly, i think he's going to die.

#3 is out! This is might be my fave title right now. We got some great Komodo moments! Nice secret identity!!!

Nice Dani Moonstar moments with Trauma! Awesome action with War Machine, Komodo, Spidey, Hydoman, the Shocker, and who was the other guy? Boomerang? I forgot.

So what's up with Hardball???

I saw this on another message board. I wish I was genius enough to figure it out.

Possible big spoilers or just a good guess.

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Komodo is Jubilee??? Her "secret identity", Dr. connors making the DNA, the way she rose up to the head of the class???</span></span>

We've seen this recently ex-mutants gaining powers in another way. A cool idea...well i hate in New Warriors, but ohwell. I really dig this title.

Posters for the upcoming Mutant Event show that spoiler character in traditional attire, very much normal looking. Either the spoiler is incorrect, or that's a temporary state for the character.

Set, yeah I think it was just a good guess. That would've been cool. Ohwell, I love Komodo now.

Me, too. She got interesting this issue. What were they thinking sending her up against Spiderman, though?

I don't like Hardball; he bores me. I hope something nasty happens to him.

Nice seeing Dani kick ass again.

Yes indeed, that scene with Dani was awesome. It left me with a big fangirl grin on my face.

Unfortunately, I still can't bring myself to care about anything or anyone else in this book.

I was ready to stop browsing through it altogether, and then follow Dani when she eventually moves on to a different book...

...but then I read a soliciation for a future issue, and it seems that the odious Gauntlet is going to get beat up and left for dead. I can't wait to see that. I hope it's the cadets who beat him up.

(And yes, I do have "issues" with male authority figures.)

# 4 was good.

That last page, with the kids up against the Hulk and his cronies amidst the fallen bodies of the AVENGERS... scary!

Thor Girl and Ultra Girl rawk!

I never knew the Marvel U had so many teen sidekicks!

And it looks like MVP might not be quite as dead as we thought he was!

Lash, I have to agree about Thor Girl and Ultra Girl. They need an issue just focusing on the two of them.

I was reading a review recently of this book. Are the stories all done in one? I really do enjoy the titles pulling that off these days- Hex, Detective, She-Hulk.

I liked Slott's work on She-Hulk, but his Thing didn't really work for me.

CJ, it's a rolling storyline but each issue is pretty self-contained. Slott is good like that.

There are already a ton of subplots.

The latest issue rocked! The artist Stefano Casseli is on another planet as far as I'm concerned. He might be my new favorite artist. Lots of personality in his work.

Loved the black ops team. I've always loved Bengal (in NW & DD). I have always loved the Constrictor as well.

Who is Mutant Zero??? I didn't think I would like the Iron-Spidey guys but they weren't bad.

The first six issues are getting Marvel's Premiere HC treatment and DCBS has it half-off in their September solicits...

http://www.thexaxis.com/capsules/02Sep07.htm
AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE #5 - Boy, they've gone to some lengths to obscure the word "Initiative" on that cover. I don't know quite what to make of his book. It seems to have going on ninety-seven lead characters, and nobody is really coming to the fore. Is it about the trainees? The teachers? The authorities? And this issue, we get yet more characters - an entire extra team, with bozos like the Constrictor and the Bengal. It still hasn't quite figured out whether its characters are there voluntarily, and although there are a lot of interesting ideas floating around, they don't add up to any sort of coherent whole. Dan Slott is a very talented writer, but this is looking more and more like a mulch. More focus is sorely needed. C+

I think the book is far better than a "C+" but will agree more focus is needed.

Personally I enjoy all the characters. To tell the truth the kids don't do much for me. I rather see Thor Girl, Ultra Girl, Rage, etc. Loved seeing Bengal. I like the large cast...I'm a Legion fan.

Kitty Pryde?

Taking the Initiative with Dan Slott

Newsarama interview. Nice to see he is going to be rotating the cast. I like that.

As for Mutant Zero? The Scarlet Witch? No, Slott wouldn't have her doing ninja moves.

I saw the news about where Eric's going, and went "Oh God No" quietly, aloud, about three times before I caught that I was saying it and turned away from the article.

Just... no.

Really, just.... no.

Short of Exiles, I can't think of a worse place for... just no.

The problem with Eric is they made him so unlikable. He was partly responsible for his heroic bestfriend dying and then took credit for being the hero.

eh. Oh well I hope he gets his due in the in AI.

I liked Ant-Man's book, but it will be wierd seeing him in superhero school. If anyone can make him work there, Slott can.

I picked up the recent Initiative issue, and liked it. I'll hunt down teh first 4 and give it a ew more to keep me around.

Well I just saw the cover and it looks like Hank is giving the latest Ant-Man a piece of his mind, er, fist.

The solicits for December mention the Irredeemable Giant Man. In case anyone was wondering...


Newsarama - Marvel Solicits

http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/10/23/marvel-month-to-month-sales-september-2007/

Introducing The Liberteens!:

http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.1778.Initiative_Initiation:_The_Liberteens

I really like the idea of this team.

Me too! I'm actually pretty impressed with the thoughtfulness of the idea. Combining past Marvel history with new characters with making it work very examplerary* of the post-CW universe.

*er, did I make that word up?

Very DC like. Especially since DC is getting more Marvel like.

While it is an interesting looking team, the 'formula' that Marvel and DC have been using for the last few years predicts a short run.

Formula;
New team + Teen heroes = Dead by dawn.

No. It's just spelled exemplary.

I dig the Liberteens big time! (i've replied to this post 3 times in the last two days and it hasn't gone thru!)

I don't read Marvel AT ALL but something about this book keeps me flicking through it every month at the store.

I don't know who half the characters are or much of what else is going on but I still enjoy what I see. I don't know why. It's weird.

I was the same way Blacula. I finally picked it up with issue 5. It's been a good read, and they do a fine job of keeping readers informed on each of the characters.

So anyone read the annual yet? What's your opinion of the Liberteen's from their 1st appearance?

I was going to say in my earlier post...THIS is my Avengers book.

I'm a big Avengers fan and am not happy with what Marvel has done with them. Sure they are more popular now but I don't care for it.

This title by Dan Slott and Stefano Caselli is MY Avengers book. I just love it. I hope they give Dan the Mighty Avengers soon. (or Joe Casey)

Christos Gage has been impressive so far. I wouldn't mind him on Mighty Avengers.

I'm also enjoying Avengers: the Initiative. I usually forget about it and let it slip to the middle of my pile but am surprisingly glad to find it when I do get to it.

Haven't read the annual yet AL but looking forward to other's reviews...

You still want Casey on Avengers, even after reading that Casey quote I PMed you? Disregarding all his other works, he's a nostalgic softie when it comes to Avengers.

Stealth, the answer is yes. He's better than Bendis that's for sure. I don't mind that he doesn't care for Harras' stuff. I think he won't be as nostalgic as Busiek. Though after what the Avengers went through before Busiek and now...nostalgic might not be so bad.

Allen Heinberg would rock as well.

Quisjorge say what?

Not good enough. Avengers nostalgia makes me PUKE !

The annual's out... and I found it a mixed bag. The Armory story was well-written, I thought. I only scanned the Gauntlet story, as I don't enjoy that guy.

The MVP and Hardball stories were better-- they moved the overall plot forward in interesting ways. One character's the first of a series of clones and the other's an undercover agent for Hydra. The Nazi doctor's entertaining to read... and good ol' Hank Pym is at least human here, though still wearing that damn Yellowjacket uniform (meaning, nasty stuff's ahead for Dr. Pym, no doubt).

The Liberteens story, which made me interested in this annual in the first place, was at once intriguing and underwhelming.

This is a teen team that's shiny, happy in public and into serious partying behind closed doors. The one member who's not turns out to... well, I won't spoil it. But the concluding page certainly provides links for upcoming Marvel storytelling.

Should I have recognized the last character to appear in the book? He's at Camp Hammond... that's all I could glean, aside from the obvious.

Mystery Lad, spoil me! Wasn't there a Skrull reveal?

<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">The Revolutionary - leader of the Liberteens- was revelaed to be a Skrull, and he was talking with a Skrull from Cmp Hammond.</span></span>

The Annual was a fine read, but nothing really relevant to the main cast of the Initiative. Tho' Slott does bring in that promised connectoin to She-Hulk.

Good Lord, I'm behind.

I just last night read ish 7, the Scarlet Spiders spotlight.

Good stuff. Looks like we've gone from no MVP to more MVP than we can shake a stick at. Fun!

I believe I can solve this mystery.

It's because writer Dan Slott RULES!

I read the annual-- skimmed most of it but totally dug the MVP and Liberteens stories!

And ohmyGOSH-- I'm actually worried about the characters after the G.I.Ant-Man/Yellowjacket slugfest in the latest issue. What's going on there?

And do y'think I could buy my very own MVP clone? I'll feed and walk him EVERY day!

They giantised Eric?

Oh grife... :rolleyes:

I think you're absolutely right Lash!

Now how can we tempt him over to the DC Universe?

I'd kill to see him work his magic on some of the obscure characters that company has!

I want more of the teen hussy, Cloud-9! When's Firestar going to show up-- though I guess it'll be as Angelica, since she's 'retired'.

What keeps me from enjoying this title more is an underlying fear that Hank Pym's on borrowed time. Somebody's going to pay for some of the Civil War stuff; Reed and Tony ain't going anywhere... and when characters like Ms. Marvel think about a hero with derision, well, the writing's on the wall.

Change your uniform, Pym! Give Eric the Yellowjacket one-- it fits his personality! It's your only chance!

Mystery Lad, I agree on...

1. FIRESTAR!
2. Pym needs to give Eric the YJ suit. He was born to be YJ while Hank never was.

Firestar has already been in the book. Isn't she Mutant Zero?

I thought about her possibly being Mutant Zero but comments of her being mentally unstable and her powers don't seem to match.

Namorita on the other hand...is a mutant (of sorts). Could need the suit for water. Doubt it but I hope so.

Other Mutant Zero guesses? Marrow. Sure she appeared in X-Factor but Marvel makes continuity mistakes all the time.

Firestar was in the book teaching the kids in one of the issues. At least, that yellow costume with the orange face thingy sure looked like her...

Perhaps it was Spitfire? She has had similar costumes to Angelica. It would make a lot more sense then Firestar reversing her decision on working with The Initiative.

So the KIA story led into graduation.

And now we have a new class.

I liked the ending. I thought I was going to miss the characters but I don't really. My favorite was MVP and he really got screwed up. I guess Cloud was my 2nd favorite. But Hardball, Trauma, and the lizard girl didn't wow me. I liked them but I'm not sad to see new people.

I actually really like Taskmaster as the teacher versus the army guy. The new recruits don't do much for me...but who cares?! I can watch Taskmaster kick their tails!

The new class didn't do a lot for me-- but I remember sort of thinking the same thing about the initial set, except for Cloud, who I *do* miss. (I was hoping for a link to the old Defenders character, also called Cloud...)

The guy who turns into a dragon is sort of intriguing, but seems like a direct replacement for Komodo.

Frankly, those are the only two I remember at the moment.

Are we supposed to be feeling kept in suspense by the Yellowjacket depiction? I wasn't, so that was a big bust, if so. Otherwise, it's just sloppy alignment in the MU. That always seems to happen here and there with these big events.

Moonstar's missed, too. I *am* enjoying Taskmaster a heck of a lot more than Gauntlet. Send that guy to helm a team in Idaho or something.

I'm not looking forward to the supposed big storyline about the giant gloves, here and in She-Hulk. They've been the least interesting things about both series, to me.

I loved the KIA storyline, very tense!

So is Dan Slott gone from A:tI?

The new kids haven't grabbed me yet.

Well, Slott's back. And everyone's a Skrull!

Well we're smack dab in the middle of the Skrull invasion now. We've got new recruits hanging with graduates, the Skrull Kill Krew riffing on Futurama, and Ant-Man being a jerk.

And Cloud 9 shows up, a little harder edged than we remember her being.

A little? I thought she might as well be a brand new character.

Loved her entrance, though.

Any word on this book's future? I heard rumours of cancellation. With Christos Gage being a Marvel exclusive, it's his only work I'm getting.

Well I just finished issues 17-20.

TONS of characters.

Between this and the fabulous/scary MARVEL ZOMBIES 3, Jocasta-- in my top 10 for characters I doubted would ever show up again-- has made a HUGE resurgance. I always had a soft spot for her ever since she slipped away from the Avengers all sad and stuff because she thought they were ignoring her.

# 20, featuring Jocasta and Hank, was a VERY powerful, moving story for me. The Jocasta-as-Jan reveal was really moving. The whole scene was awesome.

I was going to follow Slott and drop this in favor of MIGHTY AVENGERS after this issue but I think I'll keep it on the pull for now. Looks like the other writer guy is going to focus on Taskmaster and Tigra (at LAST-- some focus) among others.

And I see Mockingbird and Thor Girl in Skrull-napped therapy. That helps me deal with the loss of Janet (which I didn't know about previously because I didn't follow the Secret Invasion-proper).