Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The Flash (Barry Allen)

Been rereading the series. Read from the Death of Iris to the end, and now went back to issue 197.

Great series. I really miss Barry. Would not want to see him return though.

Any other "old school" Silver Age Flash fans out there?

Ah yes. The Mirror Master. The Top. Captain Cold. The Rainbow Raider. Heat Wave. Gorilla Grodd. The Weather Wizard....

...and my all time favorite, the Reverse-Flash.

Wally West just ain't the Flash to me.

I like Wally...Waid made me like him, but Johns made me like Capt. Cold more...just came to that realization...

Barry is the best though.

Sigh. They are both wonderful characters. Between the 2 of them, more interesting things have happened than to just about any other major heroic character. Barry has even been interesting as a dead/nearly dead/not quite dead yet hero. I haven't read the book in years, but Wally's character arc after Barry's death was compelling and believable.

Here's the problem. DC has f*#!&d over almost EVERY "second generation" hero in it's entire history. My god, look at Infinity, Inc. Look what Johns has now done to Hector Hall. Pol Krinn. The SW6 Legionnaires. Donna Troy/Wonder Girl. Jason Todd. The list is endless.

I loved Barry, but I thought his heroic story came to a conclusion. Maybe Wally's has, too. I don't know. But I am tired of the "kill your children" carnage at DC. Very, very tired of it.

Oh, I have nothing against Wally West, who had to step into some big shoes. The problem is that I can't think of West without thinking of Kid Flash (whose costume was, IMHO, a lot better than that of the Flash).

Then again, it might just be a matter of taste. I can't think of Nightwing without thinking "Hey, isn't that the guy who used to be wearing little green pants?" Whereas seeing Tim Drake as Robin is very, very believable, to the point where I'm almost thinking of Drake as the "natural" Robin.

(Sidebar: If Superboy could travel to the future to join the LSH, why couldn't Robin have joined as a member? It would be great to see Dick Grayson or Tim Drake interacting with the Legionnaires.)

Crisis got me more interested in DC. Before I the Legion was the only title I stuck with. Would get Wolfman/Perez Titans on occassion. Also would get JLA on occassion. But most DC that i bought confused me as a kid.

Well after Crisis when I learned that Kid Flash (who i knew from Titans) became the Flash...I thought it was the coolest thing. Some old superhero I didn't care for died a heroic death and his young partner replaced him. Cool! So I really love Wally. And it fit as well. I can't imagine Dick Grayson ever becoming Batman.

(but I can imagine Tempest becoming Aquaman!)

The Flash was one of my favorite titles in the '70s. In fact, I think it was the only non-team book I followed when I was a kid. Wally West is not the Flash to me. I guess that's why I haven't followed the Flash since Wally took over the title.

I read Barry's title sporadically when I was a kid. Barry was the first Flash I knew, but I like Wally and Jay better. I'd rather keep Wally than to get Barry back. If Wally can't be the "Flash" standard-bearer, I'd rather it be Jay.

Interesting thought, Rockhopper...Only if Jay and Joan get a re-ageing zap...It would be like starting again from scratch

All-Star Flash as young Jay Garrick in modern times? I like that idea.

So anyone still think the same?

I've never particularly cared for speedsters for some reason. It's a combination of the fact that "running reallly fast" as a power never excited me and the fact that they're rarely written up to their potential. (because someone moving that fast really should able to beat almost anyone they come across)

I still wish he had not returned, but I am enjoying the new mini...and am eternally grateful that Geoff Johns is writing it.

I'm enjoying it too right now. But the scariest thought I have is "What happens in a few years when Geoff eventually leaves the Flash title again?" Because to justify bringing Barry back in the first place, DC has to make sure every single issue if the best quality possible.

I'm enjoying it, but I'm not liking the "driven by the death of his mother and conviction of his father to fight crime" angle, can't heroes do the right thing because, I dunno, it's right rather than be driven by some tragedy in their past?

But other than that I'm enjoying it and I'm willing to wait till all five issues are out before I get bent out of shape.

I'm not following this. How many Flashes do we have now? Jay, Barry and Wally are all Flashes, and Bart is going back to Kid Flash?

Well, Barry was one of the characters I gravitated towards as a kid reading comics. He just seemed to inhabit this acid based world where he was the base about which all the insanity whirled and spun. Then, along about the time that Irv Novick left(it may have been his death, been a long time and I don't remember) they changed the run. Barry went to busting in doors and getting this phony cop personality grafted onto him. Then Iris was gone, and he was having a thing for Fiona and Zatanna, and it just didn't feel like Barry.

Then came crisis and his death. And I have to say that he became much more after his death. He truly took on an iconic quality that I thought he lacked as a blue collar working stiff in his "real" life. He, not superman, became the standard for the heroic ideal in the DCU superheroverse.

And now he's back. And I like Wally better, in spite of the last four years. I like that Wally took on the role when he didn't really want it. I like that he in many ways surpassed Barry because and only because he had barry's legacy to live up too. I like that he brought a return of the blue collar working man to comics, if in a roundabout way.

I like Wally better in the role of Flash now. I will always like Barry the character better, but Wally has the best, deepest, and most honest in a way characterization in the DCU.

Geoff is going to tell a great story, no doubt. But its a return of that grafted on persona that caused me to leave Barry's book in the first place.

The end of REBIRTH #2-- now that turns things on their heads, doesn't it?

I like Barry and his CSI-like secret identity possibilities. I haven't been bowled over by his return to Flash-dom. The storytelling's fine.

On the whole, I'd rather read Wally as Flash, though. I'd actually like it if the afore-mentioned ending leads to something like Barry taking a different superhero ID, leaving Jay and Wally as the Flashes.

Bart's about to be back as Kid Flash-- I kind of would like to see Jenny come back in time and be Kid Flash for awhile, while Bart stayed in whatever 31st century is going to be featured and spend some time as a Legionnaire.

Wow...between this series and LoTW, Geoff seems intent on bringing back a lot of characters that were dead and buried...and not in the Blackest Night sense.

Geoff Johns has written some great comics in recent years but IMO this title is most definitely not one of them. Flash: Rebirth #4 was almost incomprehensible to me.

I'll pick up the final two issues in this mini because Comic Series Completion Disorder (CSCD) is an AMA-recognised disease and I am an unfortunate sufferer of it but the new ongoing(s?) will almost certainly not be on my pull-list.

He's still got 2 issues to straighten things out. I have hopes that the whole thing will make total sense by the time it's done. I get the gist of everything so far.

Personally, I thought #4 was terrific, having just read it. I can only assume the confusion comes from the circumstances of Thawne's retunr not being explained. Thawne alludes to an enemy of Barry's being behind it, though it apparently hasn't happened yet. This is easily explainable by speedsters' access to time travel. And I'm sure we'll learn the circumstances of Thawne's return in the remaining issues.

I'm actually pretty thrilled to see Thawne's return, moreso than Barry's! To me, Thawne is the ultimate Flash villain, and there's been quite a void ever since he was killed off. I'm pretty surprised, actually, as Johns worked so hard to build up Hunter Zolomon as the new Zoom over his tenure writing the Flash. Zolomon never really worked for me though. It's actually really odd to see a writer who associated himself so strongly with Wally and Zolomon come back to the property with Barry and Thawne.

I like the Speed Force having a "dark side" as a new wrinkle. I mean, the Speed Force has always been a bit of a riff on Star Wars' Force, so I don't really mind Johns taking things a bit further. I also like the innovation here that Barry actually created or even is the Speed Force. It's a logical way to justify bringing him back and establishing him as the prime Flash. I'm not completely sold on bringing Barry back, mind you, but it's a step in the right direction.

What does vex me more and more is Iris and reconciling her history with where she is now. During the storyline that first brought us Bart Allen and into Waid's run and the Impulse title, Iris was an older woman, possibly old enough to be collecting social security. Now she's young again with no explanation that I know of. One could argue all this is post-Infinite Crisis continuity, but she still had to have had children and grandchildren! Bart and Jenni anyone? I've heard of hot grandmas, but COME ON!

So overall, I'd say that Thawne's return is redeeming Rebirth for me, though I'm not without concerns.

Honestly, I think that while Geoff's original run on Flash was his way of distancing his direction from that of the popular Waid era that preceded his, Flash: Rebirth is connecting with and building on the mythology that Waid built up. There wasn't much talk of the Speed Force or much focus on the Flash family of heroes or even time travel that were all Waid hallmarks when Johns wrote the Flash. Suddenly, they're all very prominent in Rebirth whereas Johns' wrinkles, such as the focus on the Rogues are barely a part of the story if at all.

As someone who preferred Waid's run and what he did for the mythology, I applaud Johns for bringing all those elements back.

It might just be me then. I've never liked the Speed Force as a concept (though to be fair I've never read Waid's run on this title so I might've missed all the good stories using it) so the heavy focus on in it in this tale might be part of the reason I'm being turned off.

I think the other issue I'm having with this story is that it seems to me to be all "sound and fury" but with very little focus. It reads to me like Geoff is throwing everything into it to make it BIG! and IMPORTANT! but not plotting the beats or even setting up the characters very well. (This Barry Allen for example reads very little like the Barry Allen I remember.)

Then there's the horrible retcon involving Barry's parents... but I hear an explanation is forthcoming on that one so I'll keep an open mind.

I'm not totally hating this book though - I also am happy to see 'Professor' Zoom back as well as Max Mercury and Johnny Quick (brief as it was) and the de-aging of Iris can only be a good thing IMO.

I think I was just hoping that Flash Rebirth would be more of a Barry Allen story and so far it seems to be more of an All-Flash/Speed Force story and since the new ongoing sounds like it'll be following the same format - I don't think it'll be a book for me.

I'm witholding judgement on the entire Rebirth mini as thus far I'm on the fence about several issues.

One thing that did surprise me was that Geoff opted to keep Max Mercury alive. I think this was a great move on his part even if it means there is another speedster. It goes against everything he's been doing lately (or at least feels) and I wonder if he recognizes some of the criticism towards him that he's kill-happy.

As to Iris's age and the long, convuluted history of Barry and Iris through time, I think that's a thread Geoff plans to expand on, given his recent interviews. The explanation will of course be: time travel, but it'll be interesting to see the nuts and bolts of it.

I'm still clueless as to what this all means for Wally and Linda and the *groan* Flash kids who still remain a never-ending annoyance.

Well. 5 is finally out, and we have another full fledged speeder, or two, on our hands. Jesse is back...and there is a new Impulse.

So we have Jay, Barry and Wally...Flashes all. Max and Bart (Kid Flash). Jesse and a new female Impulse. Plus XS in the Legion.

A lot of Speedsters again...but That's okay. I likes all of them.

As far as the story itself...it answers a lot of questions. A lot. I can live with the answer, I mean it is a comic...and someone will eventually come up with something else to explain certain things.

I believe that Zoom is being utilized as the Duex Ex Machina here, and I'm not sure why Geoff is changing some of the things he has. Will wait for final judgment on that until next issue. Will the changes to Barry's life stick, or be reversed again.

6 is out. I personally liked it. I am rereading the entire thing to put it all into perspective. Updates to follow.

Can't wait for the regular series.

Sorry Dev, but this was just a perfect example of why Barry was removed and replaced by Wally. It was just a dull story for me.

John's needs to shorten up his stories a bit if he wants to maintain the excitement level.

I think the failure of Flash: Rebirth had less to do with the fact that it was about Barry Allen and more to do with the fact that Geoff Johns wrote a completely boring story with mediocre art by the internet's most overrated artist, Ethan Van Sciver.

The main problem for me was trying to shoehorn so many little side things into the story, which is odd to say since it felt drug out.

I also think that Geoff Johns is overextending himself at this point.

Have to admit that it wasn't the best story. And having to wait for Ethan's art, while very nice, was not worth the lost of impetus the story suffered.

and while I too have wondered about Iris' deaging, even more is that she was DEAD. There was a Body. She had a Funeral. I'm sure they will say it was faked, but then, how do they account for all this time with Bart? She's clearly been seen by others, and seen while being much older, I might add.

I fear that while we will probably get some great stores, there may also be a mess created by bringing Barry back. I really do feel that he worked best as the Hero In Death that he had become.

^^^ Do you mean Iris' original death at the hands of Professor Zoom way back when before the first Crisis Rick?

'Cause that got explained away years ago in Barry's original series. Can't remember the details now but it had something to do with her returning to the future (where she was born) just before her death and some duplicate body or other being left in her place. Barry eventually discovered this fact and journeyed back to the 30th Century with her at the end of his original series, where they lived happily for a few months (and conceived the Tornado Twins) before the events of the Crisis drew Barry out of retirement.

Unless there's another Iris-death that I'm unaware of.

She was older when she came back with Bart in Wally's series. I think it's a little thing that thery're just kinda glossing over. I don't have a problem with that so much as the alterations to Barry's origin. no need for it to have been done. Zoom has been shown to be a complete psychopath before...this just feels like overkill.

The only thing I will say is that at least Geoff didn't tie in several villian origins to his retelling like he did with Green Lantern. It seemed a little forced there, and would have felt worse here.

I think if this book had come out on time, it would have seemed more fluid and not so easlily taken apart. Coming up with ideas of one's own can detract fromthe story that eventually plays out. The Matrix being a prime example. I heard great theories as to what the ending "could" be at the time...the movie fell flat because there was such an expectation to see something that you wanted to see...not what the creators had in mind.

I also think he overtaxed himself with the Blackest Night crossover, trying to do LSH and Superboy, etc. To many things at once...

"'Cause that got explained away years ago in Barry's original series. Can't remember the details now but it had something to do with her returning to the future (where she was born) just before her death and some duplicate body or other being left in her place. Barry eventually discovered this fact and journeyed back to the 30th Century with her at the end of his original series, where they lived happily for a few months (and conceived the Tornado Twins) before the events of the Crisis drew Barry out of retirement.

Unless there's another Iris-death that I'm unaware of."

Exactly. It was explained to Barry, but what about all the people they knew that saw the body? The people at work that witnessed the funeral. It wasn't a duplicate, a clone, etc. The people that were friends and family, that saw what Barry went through.

Its easy enough to do...chemical induced coma set up by feds, etc. But they still haven't done it so suddenly, a woman that was dead appears and is decades older, only to suddenly be younger again with Barry's return.

In the words of Vinnie Barbarino..."They're so confused....!!!"

I've got to say I was pretty underwhelmed by this whole thing, especially the final issue. I'll admit that I'm against Barry returning, so my expectations were high for Geoff & Ethan to provide one of the greatest Flash stories of all time to get me on board. They didn't.

Now we've got Barry back and with little to get me excited about the new Flash series in regards to the Flashes & the premise. Of course, on the other hand, I love reading Geoff write the Rogues, Keystone & Central, the supporting characters and dig into Flash history.

But this was probably the weakest major Geoff Johns story in quite a long time. Too bad.

It just seemed...lost amid all the "big" happenings from DC. It was dragged out to the point that I really didn't remember the story from issue to issue. Better stories were being told...

Flash: Rebirth really pretty much served the same function as GL: Rebirth did for Hal, which was to set up the new relaunched series and restore a classic character to the mantle that had been filled by another character for many years.

The difference was that Hal's story had a LOT of baggage that needed to be cleaned up, and taking up that challenge resulted in a very memorable story. In Barry's case he'd already been restored in the pages of Final Crisis, so his series was all about re-establishing who the character is. With not that much baggage to clean up, some external conflict had to be injected by John's in the process.

What it boils down to is that both series were designed as trailers to the relaunched series that would follow. There was a lot more story in GL's version because there was a doozy of a knot to untie. For Flash, we mostly get all the set-up without all the zing that Hal's trailer would require by necessity.

Basically, Rebirth reads more like the beginning of the ongoing than its own event, and I think that's where a lot of the disappointment stems from. I mean, the first half of #6 quickly resolves the Reverse Flash problem, and the rest is a series of quick scenes teasing events coming up in the regular series.

Maybe if they'd held off bringing Barry back 'til Rebirth, it would've helped. In Final Crisis, with the limited attention it got, Barry's return felt more like a footnote. I mean, could it have been downplayed any more than it was in FC?!?! We should've gotten some shock and awe, but we never did. There was no way for Rebirth to provide that when the opportunity was already missed! Geoff tried to find a way to deliver that emotional punch, but it was already too late.

So I appreciate Flash: Rebirth for what it really was: the first 6 issues of the new Barry Allen Flash ongoing series. Hopefully, next month's number 7 will continue to be a decent read.

Flash Secret Files and Origins 2010 (at least it was only 3.99)

The story in this issue could/should have been in the final pages of the Rebirth mini. It's a bridging tale from the mini to the regular series, essentially to explain why Barry could not undo what Zoom had done.

I almost would have liked to see a page or two of vignettes of different Flash supporting characters and villians reacting to the Flash's return.

The "In case the Flash returns...Break Glass" thing in Scudders old haunt should prove to be interesting.

The profile pages were nice to look at, if not a bit boring in contect...except for:

John Fox is lost in time...interesting to see that Geoff seems to revisit this Flash from the future.

Capt. Boomerangs profile blocked out...why? Is it not who we all think it is?

A good read overall, love that Kollins artwork on this series.

Issue #1.

Good issue, establishing the status quo.

Witness protection to explain his absence...and probably Iris' as well.

Great scene with Boomer (who I'd love to see meet up with Waller at some point.)

New threat from the future...cool.

i thought john fox was with justice legion in dc 1 million?

Maybe he was...but something apparently happened. Hopefully he'll get to it sooner than later.

I got 1, but it will be my final issue if the series doesn't drop to $2.99 with issue 2.

I am just unwilling to pay the extra dollar for 3-4 unecessary splash pages and a double-page spread for a shot that would work in an oversized panel!

JUSTICE LEAGUE of AMERICA better watch out, too...

It drops with issue 2 to 2.99.

Good! I'll get it then..

Flash Fact: I loved Geoff's Flash run with Wally, which I consider some of the best work he's ever done.

Flash Fact: I was both (A) annoyed and underwhelmed by the idea of Barry coming back and (B) incredibly disappointed with Flash: Rebirth.

I have now picked up both the Secret Files and #1. Regarding the Secret Files, I remember in the 90's when they would come out all the time and I really liked them a lot. Over the last few years I can't remember the last time I enjoyed one, to the point where I hardly ever buy them anymore. However, I actually enjoyed it quite a bit! It was good to catch up on the Rogues, on the Flash mythos and on the supporting cast (old and new).

Flash #1 was also a pretty good start. Manapul's art continues to improve. Where it was once the only good thing about the threeboot Legion (too bad he had to waste it on such a crappy Legion), here he has a bit more direction to work with and it shows. His city views are great and the action & speed really flow well.

For the first time since his return, Barry is someone we can relate with and try to pin down and that is refreshing. I really like the way Manapul draws him and Iris--they look young and attractive. Manapul's art and Geoff's brief interaction between the two of them helped solidify in my mind their relationship a bit more. That's a hurdle that Geoff will have to overcome for me, because the Iris/Barry relationship is not one I know well anymore and I'm used to the excellent Wally/Linda relationship.

Very glad to see the set-up for Central City's CSI unit. The characters and scenarios stemming from there could help make the Flash a much more interesting comic. I like the idea of unsolved cases and innocents being put in prison--it gives a huge backlog of things Barry is going to have to correct. I hope we see a lot of that too; I want a good mix between Rogues & supervillain craziness, combined with some good CSI type stuff (sci-fi related naturally). So Barry is doing all kinds of different things, like the old old days when Robert Kanigher would write as many stories as John Broome so some stories were completely different than the others.

The Rogues, of course, as awesome as always. *That* is the thing I'm most anticipating from Geoff, as its just one of the best things he's ever done. I want all of them--favorites & obscure. Even the new Trickster I like. Weather Wizard, one of the Rogues that used to be one who I thought least about, became a favorite during Geoff's run with Wally.

I thought the Mirror Master in the issue for a minute was Scudder and it would mean the return of the original Mirror Master (who in my mind is the true original nemesis for Barry, not Zoom).

Really looking for a Gorilla Grodd appearance.

I hope we don't get too right into Zoom. I feel even though he was dead for years, he's been very overused for awhile. I expect a solid Zoom story down the line but I don't want to rush into it too much.

All in all, a good start. I'm glad its reverting to $2.99 though. As Lash points out, there were way too many splash pages for one issue. Like I said, I like the art, but that many splash pages feels a little like laziness.

After the disappointment of Rebirth I'm purposely not buying the new Flash ongoing.

Watch out for me scrambling to buy back-issues a couple of years down the line when Johns turns this book into the DC lynchpin that he turned Green Lantern into.

Francis' art is worth the buy.

Why don't you at least Byrne read the first issue and then decide?

^ I don't have a fast enough computer to do that Dev. I wouldn't even know where to look anyway.

My old shop let people read comics in the store so I'd get an idea if a book was one I wanted to follow that way.

I think I'll just follow online reviews for the next few months and then decide whether I want to get into it then.

Preview for issue #2. Looks very cool.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=5158&disp=table

#1 was good enough that I'm sticking around for a while. We'll see how things go.

I read #1 a few days ago and enjoyed it. The story was nothing revolutionary but it was well-told and well-drawn by Johns and Manapul. With Geoff haven already given Keystone City its own flavor back during his run with Wally, he looks to give Central City an identity of its own. Lots of table-setting here and not much happening in the way of standalone satisfaction.

This looks to be a much different series than Geoff's Wally West work, and that's a good thing. Even with familiar elements like the Rogues carrying over (and we wouldn't want it any other way!), Geoff is working hard to give us a sense of who Barry is as a character. I feel like this will be a must-read and another feather in Geoff's cap. Hopefully he and Francis will be here for the long haul.

Catching up on DC's most exciting superhero comics, I found myself drawn immediately to the Flash, showing #1 left a bigger mark on me than I first thought. The reason is two-fold: Geoff did everything right in #1 and left his annoying habits at the door, and Frances Manupal's artwork is just incredible to behold.

That continues with #2. Manupal has really emerged as one of the best artists in comics IMO, in about a year's time. You can even see the difference in quality from his beautiful Legion work to now, where its even more dynamic and gorgeous. I think at this point he might be getting close to where I'd pick up anything he did hereafter, even Herbie.

Geoff also shows off his writing talent in the way that originally made me a big fan of his: tight, character driven stories with a ton of characters and lots of fast-paced action. I really like that Geoff began the first arc with this Rogues of the 25th Century storyline, because it seems so out of left field. It goes against expectations that he would jump right into the Rogues or do a more continuity-driven thing. Good for him. A solid Flash story that stands on its own was desperately needed.

The concept is also where Geoff shines: a pretty simple concept that seems natural to the overall scheme of things. If the Flash of the 25th Century (Zoom) is evil, then what if the Rogues were good? Simple yet brilliant.

With GL crossover free and Geoff writing Flash like this, this might a thrilling era of Geoff getting back to what he does best and not doing the things I find so annoying.

Also enjoying the plethora of subplots: Barry at work, taking on cases no one else will and Captain Boomerang about to make an overdue triumphant return. I'd forgotten how pathetic he was at the end, and that he also killed Tim Drake's father. But it happened nonetheless, and I'm glad Captain Cold called him on it.

That was a beautifully drawn issue. The apartment building thing was great. The end beat was great...it'll be interesting to see where this goes.

The future Rogues are interesting...but I love the real deal in this issue. Dang, Johns has really turned them into stars. They seriously have a mini or something.

I just read last month's issue number 3--what a terrific comic this is shaping up to be! I think Geoff and Francis are hittin' this one out of the park! My favorite two elements of Flash stories are time travel and the Rogues--the introduction of the Renegades combines both of those elements, so I'm in seventh Flash heaven (or should I say the Speed Force)!

I also think Geoff is getting a better grasp on Barry's character. It's pretty subtle stuff, but that works for Barry because he's not an in-your-face kind of hero. I'm also enjoying Iris and Barry as a couple (though her de-aging still bugs me--even though Bart was rapidly-aged, she still raised the Tornado Twins to adulthood, damnit!). Their interaction feels pretty real.

The only thing that bugs me about the Renegades plot is why are they arresting Barry before he supposedly commits the murder? Are they trying to prevent the murder? If that's not their goal, then imprisoning Barry at this point would certainly cause a paradox, wouldn't it?

That aside, it's fun to see a good (though puzzlingly reckless) version of the Rogues from the future. I'm sure the inevitable confrontation between Rogues and Renegades will be lots of fun!

Bring it on!

It has been a strong book so far, and with "Flashpoint" in the works and the announcement of a Flash-family book for next year it's clear that Johns has a mandate to do for Barry what he did for Hal.

It will be interesting to see if he can pull it off.

For Jenni's sake, of course.

After reading #3, I have to say based on the first 3 issues this is a contender for DC's best superhero comic book. Johns and Manupal are just clicking on all levels. I could keep showering praise every issue but I'll just be repeating myself.

Manupal is shaping up to be one of the very best artists in comics. His Iris is stunningly beautiful but not over the top. Barry is handsome and leading manish but not 'pretty' by any means. The Central City 'busy' backgrounds are just fantastic and I could stare at them all day.

I loved the way Geoff is having so many different things going on: the Renegades main storyline, the return of Captain Boomerang, the subplot about Jason Hicks (which shows Barry deals with real cop stuff too) and the big focus on the supporting cast, including Iris. Whereas the GL comic is currently in a very cosmic/grand scale mode still, the Flash comic is still very much down to Earth and grounded to the regular people. Reading them together is a nice combination from one very good writer.

Issue #4 was another great issue. Johns and Manupal, like Cobie says, are producing a really fun honest to God super-hero comic here.

What kills me is that Johns writes this *one great example of how fun comics can be)...and is writing Brightest Day (one of the chief comics that shows whats wrong with comics today).

^ To each his own Dev Em but I think calling Brightest Day "one of the chief comics that shows whats wrong with comics today" is so far from what I consider to be the truth that I have to respond to it.

IMO there are much, much, much, MUCH worse books out there than that one. And also IMO - it's a very fun comic. It may not be fun-Ha-Ha like I imagine Generation Lost might be (I'm not reading it so I don't know) but it's very fun-interesting/exciting in my eyes and I'm fascinated with where the stories of Aquaman/Mera/Martian Manhunter/Hawk/Dove/etc are going in it.

Could I have done without the two instances of ultra-violence? Yes. And I'd like to see much less of that in comics too. But I'm not gonna hold those two incidents against the quality of the rest of the book. Which has been chock-a-block full of story IMO. In fact, I'm gonna flip your comment around and say that I wish MORE comics today had as much going on in them as this one does.

---

Getting back on topic - still kinda regretting not buying The Flash since it has obviously been getting great reviews from all sides, but at the same time I'm kinda happy with myself for making a stand and not blowing my money on certain titles. As the prices keep going up I'm just gonna have to keep making hard decisions like this one.

Like I said over in the BD thread (repeated here for those not following convos in multiple threads), it's not the actual writing or that itself...it is the cases of ultra violence shown on panel that is what is wrong with the book, and the trand in comics (from both major Super-hero comics publishers) today. Violence and even gore can have its place in comics (Vertigo/Max/Icon/etc) just not in mainstream hero comics that kids can grab off the shelf.

The Flash and Adventure Comics so far have been comics that show a lighter atmosphere, yet no less dangerous situations in comics. I can hand either one to my 9 year old and not have to worry about her having nightmares about what she saw drawn in a comic...especially one that touts a "Brightest Day" banner on the top. Which DC can proclaim does not mean anything, but it certainly is being pushed as such overall.

Just my 2 cents to clarify my stance.

Finally read issue 4 today--OUTSTANDING!!!

Loved the helicopter rescue scene, and the Renegade Top's unwillingness to let Barry go down without being warned at the apparent upcoming cost to the Top's life.

We get confirmation of exactly what it the circumstances are that surround what the Flash will supposedly do to cause him to be hunted down. It's a fascinating story, especially given that there were no "flash-forward" images to accompany it. Is this what Flashpoint will be about, or will it be resolved in this storyline? Either way, I'm intrigued!

Still want the whys and wherefores explaining why the Renegades would want to arrest Barry before he kills Mirror Monarch. Preventing MM's death appears off the table, so that bit still confuses me. Anyone have an idea about that?

In any case I hope these Renegades aren't disposable characters. I think they're hella-cool and would love to see them appear more and be developed further after this storyline!

So in #4 what stuck out for me in a big way was the Renegade Top stepping up and becoming a much more complicated character than he first appeared--this added some solid depth to the Renegades and really upped the story IMO.

The series is outstanding as Lardy says and IMO has overtaken Green Lantern as Geoff's best title.

One minor complaint is it reads a bit too quickly (a common Geoff complaint for latter parts of long stories) in that there are perhaps a few too many splash pages and dialogue-less panels. *However*, Geoff has Frances providing some killer art so it takes away any sting.

Also the best Captain Boomerang since Suicide Squad, and for many years, the character hit a point where I almost preferred not to see him show up--something no other Rogue ever did. Glad to see him restored to glory.

I also feel like the first Mirror Master--a contender for Barry's greatest villain--might be returning somehow. Anyone else sensing this? I'm not opposed to it if it's done well.

Issue 5.

All I'm gong to say about the actual story is this...very well played Mr. Johns. Wonderful twist thrown in there.

The Brightest Day thing thrown in the middle was kinda useless...but not terrible.

The art in this book is unbelievable.

#5 continues the high level of quality on this comic in all forms. Frances' art is just so good that it almost makes me want to weep tears of joy. And Geoff is doing his very best work right now here.

I really liked the twist with one of the Renegades and I'm really curious for how this all will turn out.

I liked the 'Barry meeting Mirror Master II' sequence. That was really cool. Barry never got to really know that the first Mirror Master died since his death happened while Barry was imprisoned by the Anti-Monitor. I'd like to someday see what his reaction was since the first MM was Barry's true arch-nemesis, only comparable to Zoom.

My one complaint was the Brightest Day sequence was incredibly pointless and stupidly included. I hate when they do this.

^ Minor correction from a Crisis loving freak - Barry had already sacrificed himself when Sam Scudder died. Barry died in #8. Mirror Master in #12. But your point is correct - we haven't seen Barry's reaction to that passing yet.

I thought MM died when the villains failed to stop Krona in #7 or #8? Now I have to reread.

He did - but that happened in #12... I think. You've got me starting to doubt myself.

But it definitely wasn't #7 (that was all about the big raid on the anti-matter universe and Supergirl's death) or #8 (which was Barry's big heroic sacrifice issue).

... OK some quick internet research tells me it was #10 that Mirror Master, Icicle and Maaldor the Dark Lord were all killed by Krona in. Earlier than I was thinking but still after Barry's passing.

I do need to re-read that series one day. I love it so much. I've been wanting to get the Absolute version for ages. I might see if someone wants to get it for me for Christmas.

You know what? Flash is IMO the very best ongoing title being published set in the DCU! Now, I don't read every single comic DC puts out, but I've a hard time believing there's one better.

Flash #7, featuring a spotlight on Captain Boomerang, was terrific. Even though Barry Allen only appeared in flashback, this was a very entertaing focus on a character recently returned to life at the conclusion of Blackest Night. Clearly, his return enhances the rising profile of the Rogues and gives them someone who is a part of them while also being on the outs with them

As acclaimed as Geoff's run was on the Wally West version of the character, it never really clicked with me for some reason. Here with Barry Allen, Geoff is clicking on all cylinders with me.

It's suddenly occurred to me that I may have hit on the reason. In Geoff's run with Wally, the Rogues were also heavily featured. The difference is that the Rogues were Barry's foes much moreso than Wally's.I know Geoff did what he could to enhance them and make them Wally's own, but they just go more naturally with the guy they were literally created for. I always loved the Rogues, but their chemistry with Wally wasn't what it was with Barry. Waid used them very sparingly on his run with Wally, which is part of why I may hold his run in higher regard.

I especially enjoyed Geoff's spotlight here on Digger Harkness. I'm a fan of the character from his days with the Suicide Squad. Here, Geoff sheds some light on the character's motivations while avoiding making him overly sympathetic. Framing the flashbacks around Digger breaking into Iron Heights to meet with the Reverse Flash is effective. Professor Zoom is my favorite nemesis for Barry, and I'm excited to see the next issue focus on him and the ramifications of this one's events.

Where this issue falters a bit is that Digger's whole motivation for talking to Zoom ties into Brightest Day. The crossovers (though truthfully fairly minor) with that event in this series are intrusive to what has been an otherwise self-contained and superlative reading experience. I suppose it's difficult to ignore given Digger and Zoom being amongst the resurrectees, but I'd rather Digger's motivations were a little more internal.

Scott Kolins did the art this issue, and I'm really continuing to dig his new style. He's really just about as good here as regular artist Francis Manapul. Scott's been involved here so much (with backups and variant covers) already that you get the feeling he really wanted to be the series artist in the first place, perhaps having gotten back the itch for the Flash universe from when he was Geoff's primary partner on the Wally west run. Honestly, when Manapul inevitably leaves, Scott would be my number one choice to replace him.

Overall, this was a terrific issue. I loved particularly how the boomerang motif was used to show how all the bad Digger's done has come back to haunt him. I particularly would've liked some spotlight in the flashback to have been given to Digger's departed son, the second Capt. Boomerang, in light of the father issues Digger is shown to have had in his life.

A great standalone story, though a new reader might have hoped for more Flash in his own book! It was probably a little too soon to have a non-Barry issue after only six issues but is a treat for longtime fans of the character.

Lardy's rating for Flash #7: 4 donuts! (out of five)

Just reread 1 - 6 and 7 of the new series.

Issues 1 - 6 read much better as a whole group...showing the signs of being written for trade. I enjoyed the issues as they came out...enjoyed it more as a whole though.

There is not enough that can be said about Manapuls' art on this book. It is just beautiful. They always called Superman the boyscout, but I always thought it really would have fit Barry better, and Francis' art here conveys a sort of clean look that shows you can be a person driven by morals and still have a good story told about you. In a comic industry that seems to want to make everyone gritty, The Flash is showing that it does not have to be to be a good book.

Issue 7, the Boomer issue, was great as well. Kollins newer style (man, this guy reinvents himself every few years, and keeps getting better) is nice for these Rogue issues. Gives it a throwback to Geoffs original run profile issues. Boomer is here in all his glory..and like Lardy, I would have liked to see his son touched upon...but I guess you cannot have everything.

The Zoom thing thrown in here seemed forced, and I will be glad when the Brightest Day crap is over with. I am sure Geoff will incorporate everything nicely, but every hint of it so far in this book has jarred me out of the flow of the story.

I'm in agreement. CBRM will help determine if there are any that come close, but right now, I think Flash is the best thing DC is publishing, hands down!

Books like this, The Atom backup (God, I hope they give him a monthly with the current team) and Booster Gold is why the DCU is still, for me anyway, hitting on more cylinders than Marvel. I need to catch up on Superboy...and I hope that it too has some of the same themes going on.

^I'm not sure if DC is better than Marvel right now (though I have to admit, Marvel in Dec 2010 is not as good as Marvel in Dec 2009), but I plan to give it a thorough analysis this month.

I do think you'll be impressed by the quality of Superboy, which I've been enjoying.

That's why I said that for me...DC is better. I like storytelling that does not solely rely on shock value to achieve a good story. Yes, DC does enough of that, but Marvel has destroyed or killed most of the characters that I care about, and continues to make the one that I would read an overly dark and gritty book( at least from what I have seen.) I would prefer an approach like Booster Gold to Spiderman...humor and drama...without the total personality change in the main character and friends.

It's a personal thing...I dropped Brightest Day because the graphic scenes do nothing for me in a super hero book. Again, it's a personal taste thing for me.

You guys are making the new Flash book sound awfully tempting.

One question, though, has there been any Johns-brand tomato sauce in Flash? I know there was in Flash: Rebirth, along with a retcon that Barry's parents were killed by Zoom (WT...?)

I, personally, really hope that the original Mirror Master doesn't return, because that would only spell doom for Evan McCulloch, one of my favorite villains of the past 25 years (even though my last JLA fanfic turned out to be a washout, I did enjoy writing Evan and Poison Ivy.)

Nothing that I can think of off the top of my head. It's been pretty straightforward heroics. There is the boring things that have to do with Brightest Day in there, but for the most part those are pretty few and have to do with Boomer-butt. It also feels as if a lot of it is setting up his coming Flashpoint event...but that does not mean that the ride isn't fun.

Check the trade when the library gets it...I think you'll like it better than most of the other stuff Johns is putting out.

Thank you, Bug. I definitely will give the trade a go when it arrives.

FL, I also recommend you give Flash a try. Like Dev says, it's been full-on superheroics so far. Of all the Johns books, this one has been the one with the good-Geoff qualities without his bad-Geoff qualities.

Thanks, Cobie. I'm actually looking forward to the trade now.

Can't say that I'm really impressed by this flash run so far. Its been really slow after the rebirth, which wasn't really... it didn't grab me the way Hal's story did.

to many things stick in my mind, like, how is grandma Iris now looking like she's twenty five without an explanation to those that knew her before she went into "witness protection". And even then, I didn't see her as a twenty five year old, more like an early thirties modern woman and wife.

So I caught up on the build-up issues to Flashpoint and I can't help but feel that Geoff is slightly phoning it in here--like the man is way too overstretched with his other job. Something else else about these issues, while not bad or anything, just felt like they were a bit run of the mill, and more than a little padded.

Compounding matters is Scott Kollin's artwork, which I've always kind of enjoyed, just isn't it doing it for me. When Manupal does an issue with Johns, his art is so gorgeous it takes a mediocre Geoff story and makes it great; when Kollins does it, he's unable to add that little 'oomph', revealing the story for what it is: only okay.

The first 6 issues of the Barry Flash comic were full of promise and potential. The next six failed to live up to it and spent way too much time building to Geoff's next big event. I felt like it was really lacking in character moments and way too plot centric (and a pretty thin plot at that).

I agree that the last 6 issues felt like total filler to get to Flashpoint. Since I love Barry Allen, I am still glad that he is in his own book again (although I would have been fine with him remaining dead...but I'll enjoy what I can get at this point.)

There is so much more that could have been done...but the books are now written for trades, at least it seems that way to me.

It's odd: when Barry was brought back, I felt it was groan-inducing and just another annoying thing DC had done. But those first 6 issues wowed me and basically won me over.

Now these last 6 issues are pushing me back to the other side.

I think you're dead on--it's written for a trade, to be marketed as "the road to Flashpoint".