Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Batman, Detective Comics and All-Star Batman

Detective Comics is the most beautiful book on the stands. The artwork in all three issues of Batwoman's story has been inventive as well as evocative. Much like Quietly and Tan have defined the tone on their work in B&R, Williams gives a mood to 'Tec that is distinct and captivating. Rucka said he didn't want the book to be about Kane's sexuality, but Williams certainly plays up the sexiness of both Kate Kane and Batwoman.

Ceej, you've summed up some of the appeal of the art in 'Tec. Whereas Rucka is purposely avoiding going into Kate's sexuality so explicitly, it lets Williams really showcase his extraordinary talent by doing so himself without all the story focus. Its really just an incredible book to behold.

I was just about to drop Sirens of Gotham City, since it really isn't all that great, but the latest Riddler-centric story (I may be an issue or two behind actually) was pretty well done. Not be Dini either, surprisingly but by Scott Lobdell, showin he still can do a great story. I'm still on the fence on whether I'd pick up another issue.

BTW, my favorite Dick-as-Batman appearance thus far? (readers of this thread know I'm not thrilled with it). Latest issue of Booster Gold. Really well done sequence with Dick and Booster, and it compliments the Booster/Bruce sequence from early on in Booster's current series. It showcases Dick's personality very well, I think without beating us over the head with it.

Still refusing to even browse Batman until Winnick is gone...

The latest issue of SIRENS brings Dini back. This book doesn't have the fun of S6, nor the charm of BOP. Like Cobie, i enjoyed the riddler story (by Lobdell?!!!?!?!?!) but Dini's story hasn't cut it. We get a wrap on the Joker story, with a nice bit of nod to Bat-history. And it's fitting that Dini does it.

The artwork here sometimes looks really incredible. Other times it looks inscomplete. This book is trying hard to be a must have title, and there's so much potential. Just not sure I want to keep waiting.

STREETS OF GOTHAM - Dini's other Bat book has me on the fence as well. I like getting the occasional story of a bystander's POV for one of Bats' adventures. Too often they end up being overly sappy. That hasn't been the case with this title. But instead, we seem to hop from character to character within issue. It doesn't give us time to get attached to any one POV- still not sure if that's good or bad.

Again, waiting for it to grab me. Not sure I want to continue.

Another thumbs up for Detective #859. Rucka is succeeding in giving Batwoman a compelling origin and back story.

Rereading this thread's last two pages, I must simply state the following: if Dick Grayson dies at any point during Bruce's return (even though we know Dick would then return in a few years), LMB continuity will therefore tie-in, as I will be forced to arrest Lardy and CJ for the murder of Dick Grayson as co-conspirators on the MMB.

Just sayin'

So for Comic Book Review Month, I'm getting around to some of the Bat-titles finally. The only one that I'm loving so much that I can't wait to read it is Detective Comics, so that's the only one I've read thus far (I'll do the others when I get to it). I've cancelled all the side titles other than Batman and Batman & Robin. None of them are good enough to continue to counter my distaste for this whole current status quo/marketing ploy. In other words I didn't give them the same chance I would other titles--I'm unfair like that.

So: Detective Comics. The truth is this comic book is so good that no matter how I feel about anything, I can't deny the quality and the need to keep reading. Seeing Batwoman's full origin completed was a treat and Rucka did a great job at showing a number of things, including her awesome relationship with her father which is a great dynamic. He also showed how her tragedy is constantly weighing her down but she's trying to use it to inspire her rather than consume her--very much like Batman. In fact, I'd say she's more like Batman than any other character ever after reading the latest parter. I also think that her relationship with Renee (the new Question) is a bad one; not bad in the sense that its bad to read (far from it--its quite interesting) but bad for both characters. Its simply too explosive...it reminds me of a relationship I once had and I'm sure many can relate.

When Batman inevitably takes back over Detective Comics, I can't wait to continue on with a Batwoman title by Rucka and Williams.

I've now gotten around to reading Batman and once I did I remembered why I couldn't muster up the strength to read it sooner; I remember it wasn't that long ago it was at the top of my reading list.

I like Tony Daniel as an artist and I can tell that he's trying. But I find little to enjoy about the current Batman run. While he's bringing in several interesting characters whom I'm found of--love Hugo Strange, love the Falcones from Year One and Long Halloween and am interesting in revisiting the Reaper concept from Year Two--the story itself is kind of one big jumbled mess. Its basically running around in circles and hard to keep track of. While I'm glad the Penguin has an interesting odd assortment of "henchmen" I can't for the life of me figure out what they add to this story. And was it really necessary to re-use Black Mask, even if only in name, once again?

Added to all of this is the fact that Dick as Batman isn't really working on any level for me, particularly here. Nothing in this story uses Dick in a way that is different from how Bruce was used other than less experience. There's hardly anything different--in fact, you could easily have used the Spirit, Daredevil or someone else. Dick isn't acting like Batman *or* Dick. And Damien is not getting anymore likable to me anywhere, particularly here.

Unfortunately, I have to say I'm finding Batman to be a pretty unenjoyable read.

Gawd! I just finished Detective Comics #860 featuring Batwoman and can't say enough about how flat-out excellent this second arc by Rucka and Williams III was!

Though I enjoyed the first arc, it suffered a little from inaccessibility (all that Crime Bible stuff seemed like prerequisite reading for it) and felt a little underwritten.Alice made for kind of a dull villain, and her (presumed) non-stop quoting of Alice in Wonderland wore pretty thin. Plus, a lot of it just seemed weird for the sake of being weird. Alice didn't really pop for me until the reveal in the final chapter. It was basically a showcase story for Williams' astounding artwork. The art was so good I really didn't mind as much as I should have.

But the second arc which delved into Kate's backstory delivered in every phase! The writing was perfect and involving, and Williams showed us more of his dynamic range by switching art styles between the present and past sequences. I loved reading the story of the tragedies that happened in her childhood with her mom and sister and in her adulthood as a woman who wanted nothing more than to serve her country was cast out for nothing more than being completely true to herself and the code she had pledged to follow.

I liked that we didn't really get any stereotypes here in how Kate came to be a vigilante. She wasn't raped or abused or in any way a woman in any literal or metaphorical refrigerator! I found that very, very refreshing in today's comic climate.

I loved how it portrayed her dad. Not an affectionate, expressive man in any way, but nonetheless caring accepting and supportive of his daughter. In many ways Kate is her father's daughter. I hope Rucka (or whatever writers eventually succeed him writing the character) recognize how important the father is to her character and don't do something stupid like killing him off for cheap shock value.

I've admired J.H. Williams III's art for many years, most recently during his long run with Alan Moore on ABC's Promethea (which I highly recommend as an even better writing match for William's creative art style). He is an unbelievable talent! As wonderful as his more "artsy" layouts are, the proof of his talent for storytelling is in the flashback sequences. J.H. can draw the hell out of a comic any way he wants! He is truly one of the premier artistic talents of this era.

I wasn't enjoying the Question backups at all, but even that has picked up some steam in the latest installments. Nothing groundbreaking, but I'd say adding Huntress to the story has spiced things up a bit as they play off each other.

Though I'm excited about the arc with Jock doing the art on the Batwoman feature the next few issues, I'll definitely miss J.H.'s work. And I'm off Detective in April when Batwoman vacates it for an apparent fill-in arc featuring Batman. DC hasn't officially announced a Batwoman ongoing, but Rucka has all but said it's coming with J.H. continuing on art for a while. I just hope it'll start in May or June as this book looks to be one for the ages!

Well this week was Batman:Streets of Gotham. This is Dini's book since he left Detective. Mahnke is still doing the work for his stories. Mind you, less than a year in, and Dini's only written have the issues, with guest writers coming in.

The premise is stories of the Bat told from other Gothamites' POV. Dini tried his hand at this during an early episode of Batman:TAS. It's an interesting idea, seeing how Batman is view by other people. Unfortunately, that hasn't lasted long.

Each issue is hit or miss here. I never know what I'm going to read. The series has lost it's direction. There have been some good issues, but the most recent one falls flat. Batman (Dick) and Gordon spend the issue talking over a dead body, but neither one speaks in character. The story feels drug out to last longer than it needs to.

You mean Nguyen.

The Batbooks have lost all that energy and excitement they had going for them this summer. BATMAN & ROBIN has been missing for too long. STREETS OF GOTHAM and GOTHAM SIRENS are both uneven and struggling to maintain quality.

RED ROBIN lost me after two issues, much to dark and overly dramatic for my liking. BATGIRL is a good antidote to that; I'm still feeling it out.

I am enjoying BATMAN. Sorry Cobie. Daniels is mixing in intriguing characters and developing a real story here- better than I expected. And I like bringing in the more street villains of Bats' past. The Penguin doesn't often seem a threat to Batman, but here his conniving is really holding it's own against the Falcone family. I will grant that Batman/Dick hasn't been written any different than Batman/Bruce.

So let's see, for the rundown of Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne, we've got Caveman Batman, Witch Hunter Batman, Pirate Batman, Cowboy Batman, P.I. Batman, and Batman Batman.

And the difference between regular Batman and Batman Batman is that Batman Batman has 20% more Batmanitude.

Batman & Robin come back strong, with a run of three issues that sure didn't feel like three months. Throw in Batwoman, a visit with the Knight and Squire, and Damian getting saved by Alfred and Dick, and you've got a great read. It's not as heavy as some of Morrison's work with Bruce, but since those first issues with Quitely, this title has been more about the excitement of being Batman.

Gotham Sirens also had an issue out last week. It was another chance for Dini to bring out the Riddler. And here, he does so with a creepy side plot as the Sirens each give us their POV of a DB being dropped in their laps. It's a good mix, intriguing to be sure. One of the better issues in the short run of this title.

Detective Comics was given a GLAAD (Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation) media award this evening. Congrats to everyone involved at DC, and kudos to the Alliance for recognizing a mainstream comic.

I'm only reading the B & R and I have to say that if it doesn't pick up fast, I'm dropping it. Way to many bad coincidences, too many bad moves on Dick's part, absolutely revile the Damian Wayne character. Voted to kill Jason Todd, and this one is worse.

BoP can't get here soon enough, and a return of Nightwing can't as well.

All you Damian Wayne haters read the latest issue of B&R?

Not yet. Does he die? Does he betray Dick?

Hopefully one of the two

You're part right. Now guess which part?

Morrison comes back to Batman for #700. That's 3 Morrison Bat-Books in June. Ow, my wallet.

Well after months of kind of hemming and hawing over Batman & Robin, I have to say that I'm enjoying the last two stories MUCH more. The former, which was the Batwoman / Knight & Squire crossover was a great little story that teamed the various heroes up in a cool way that reminded me of when superhero team-ups actually felt funky and fun. It also resolved the Batman skull mystery once and for all.

The latest storyarc, which I've now read the first part, is the single best Morrison Batman issue since Batman: RIP. It had a lot going for it that I loved:

- first and foremost, Dick was acting like "Dick" again. He just felt right to me for the first time in a long while.

- Damien's subplot is moving along. Whether he dies (as I prefer) or something of some substance happens to him, I'll be glad the character is moved forward from his current status. I'm dying for Tim to resume his role as Robin though.

- The Black Glove subplot returns--which I'm fascinated by--and with an interesting character called Grave Digger.

- The actual storyline itself, with Dick and Alfred searching Wayne Manor and the cave via clues Bruce may have placed centuries before was really well done! It restored the sense of mystery to the title and had some very Da Vinci Code type moments. I would love it if Morrison could go more into depth but I'll take what we're given.

Of course, the logical question is whether the 1700's Thomas Wayne was indeed the Thomas Wayne from Batman RIP.

I thought the lastest issue (#10) was FAB too! We get far too little detective-work/mystery-solving in comics these days so this one, with all it's funky clues in paintings and hidden doors behind fireplaces, was super-cool!

I'm on record as being a big fan of Morrison's Batman run, though somewhat less-so of his Batman and Robin work, but now that I think about it it's only been the Red Hood three-parter that I haven't really liked - and that was probably mainly due to Philip Tan's murky, scratchy art (so at odds with the rest of the artists on this title).

So I think Batman and Roin has been a pretty decent run after all. And certainly a very creative one. Every month, even though I may like other comics more, this one stands out from the pack as having something unique and original about it. Mainly due to its construction/story-telling I think. And that's a very welcome trait for someone who's as sick of the same-old, same-old of comics as I am.

So thank-you Grant Morrison. As someone who used to be a non-fan of yours - long may you remain in the industry!

..wait, how does this work? Wayne Manor's been levelled AT LEAST once (during Cataclysm/No Man's Land), and I'm fairly sure the Batcave itself has seen some serious damage over the years too...

It doesn't work

Caught up on the latest Batwoman story in Detective Comics, which kind of serves as a co-Batwoman story, co-Batman story (set in the past with the real Batman). While it doesn't have Williams artwork (which is so damn good its notable when its absent), it's still a pretty solid story so far. It's definitely not the best Batwoman story so far, but I don't mind Rucka giving us a strait-up crime story with Batwoman.

I have to say by this point I've found the Question back-up rather pointless. It's basically gotten to the point where I'm sometimes forgetting to keep reading. The interaction with the Huntress has been okay but there's no real meat there. Rucka just doesn't seem able to capture my interest in the limited format. He needs to work on that.