Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities "...like a five year old with crayons."

HERE's a fun-- if nasty, and vindictive topic. Which artists, from any era of comics, would you consider did some of the WORST-looking art you've ever seen?? Let's name names and examples (books & issue #s), as a lot of people's quality fluctuated wildly depending on different periods, styles & especially, inkers of varying talent and/or compatibility.

As Josie Lawrence once said: "YOU start!"

well...I can think of several worse arts I have seen in Legion... Legion of Super Heroes #282 - the story of Mordru.....bad art..by Steve Dikto...real bad that I could not read that book at all.

Who was doing Legionnaires around the time of "End of an Era"? There was some horrible Legion art at that time but the artist's name escapes me.

There were a lot of godawful artist running around the '80s but those are the names I don't tend to remember ... oh, I know -- Al Milgrom did some horrific stuff for "Secret Wars II" and other Marvel stuff around that time. He's a good inker, but I have no idea what he thought he was doing pencilling-wise.

Oh yeah, and I also hated Alixe's work in "Lost". Even though he and Coipel had a familiar surface look to their art, I loved Coipel and hated Alixe. For me, Coipel was able to use the darkness and scratchy lines effectively, but Alixe just made a mess -- and the underlying anatomy, faces etc was kinda ugly even if you had cleaned them up.

Well, I thought Coipel's faces were pretty wierd at the start of Lost.

But the worst I recalll off-hand was the "Dr. Mayavale" artist - was that Ditko? The proportions were all wrong, people's arms were like two sizes too big sometimes, the faces looked like I would have to be on drugs to think they were okay and, of course, the crummy newsprint didn't help anything. Not to mention the portrayal of Mayavale himself.

My gawn, that was the first artist who sprang to mind. Don't remember his name, though -- maybe I've suppressed the memory. But I thought the art was so amateurish, especially compared to Immonen's and Doran's art in the other Legion titles at the time.

Which issue was Dr. Mayavale?

There were some bad art teams around then...

252 Staton / Chiaramonte
260 Staton / Calnan
261 Estrada / Calnan (THE PITS!)
269 Janes / Chiaramonte
270 Janes / Chiaramonte
271 Janes / Calnan
272 Ditko / Chiaramonte
280 Janes / Patterson
281 Ditko / Patterson

There was more, but mainly the same teams. Note I did not list the issues done by Jimmy Janes or Steve Ditko that were INKED PROPERLY! --just the ones that were really murdered.

I posted this HERE, by the way, because I didn't want to limit this topic to just the LEGION! (It started as an offshoot of a really stupid argument at the DC boards about the 2nd Jack Kirby JIMMY OLSEN TPB, when some halfwit made the comment I quoted for the title of the topic.

Apart from Estrada / Calnan, I haven't really started listing my pics yet...

When someone mentions the period of "End Of An Era", I'm SURE they mean Chris Gardner...

I found Coipel's early LSH work, like "Legion of the Damned", to be nigh unreadable. Thankfully he improved.

Yes! I'm pretty sure you're right -- that's the guy I was thinking of.

Speaking of bad art, who's doing that waaaay cartoony, anime on acid Spider-Man title? ("Spectacular"?) I've only flipped through it on the rack, but that's a big ol' mess!

i think the worst artist for me, was the guy that came onto the "New Titans" after Tom Grummett [ who i LOVED !!! ] issue 100 and onwards ....

i dropped that book so fast !!! i felt really upset because at that time, i was following the TITANS more than the LEGION !!!

Matthew.

It's #268, a Ditko/Wiacek collaboration. I couldn't think of any other superhero comics with such bad art, but I don't read that many others.

It seems to me that the art was of a more uniform standard in the golden/silver age. Although it could be sort of wooden (like Bob Kane, IMO), the bodies were accurately drawn. Even today, with many more art styles available and generally high quality, you get the occasional wacky-looking panel. Time constraints I suppose.

And I'll get on my high horse once again to bitch about Carla Speed McNeill on Queen & Country. She's not a bad artist by any means, but I really dislike her style for that particular book.

The second Alpha Flight series showed some promise early, but didn't have a chance once Duncan Rouleau came on as the artist...

"I found Coipel's early LSH work, like "Legion of the Damned", to be nigh unreadable. Thankfully he improved."

AGREED! One thing I found very unusual about Coipel was, right from the beginning, the visual STORYTELLING was better than it had been for years. How much of this was the art, and how much the writing? I KNEW the guy had potential. I just kept wishing the rendering didn't look like it was done in the back of a moving car on a dirt road. Yeah-- it got WAY better!

"the guy that came onto the "New Titans" after Tom Grummett [ who i LOVED !!! ] issue 100 and onwards"

I'm pretty sure I dropped the book real fast, too. In my case, I came to like Tom Grummett's art MORE than George Perez'!!! Which may have a lot to do with how much I enjoyed his 2 runs on SUPERBOY (and I dropped that book BOTH times he left).

"It's #268, a Ditko/Wiacek collaboration."

Thanks. Bob Wiacek started out as a "sci-fi" inker very much in the Terry Autin mode in the mid-70's, but over the decades his work has CONTINUED to drop in quality. He inked a PILE of IRON MANs, and no matter who was pencilling, it looked awful. It's sad to see how talented people willsacrifice quality to pay the bills on time. I don't recall Wiacek being THAT bad on LEGION, but then, there were other inkers doing far worse than he was at the time...

Sure enough, this thread at the DC boards has already erupted in a fight! Oy...

Okay, right off the top of my head...

During Gerry Conway's run on LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES, a trio fo inkers butchered everything they touched: Bruce Paterson (bad), Frank Chiaramonte (WORSE) and John Calnan (THE PITS!!!) Among those murdered were Joe Staton, Jimmmy Janes, and (the quite arguably out-of-place) Steve Ditko. (Ditko was also inked very NICELY on a few issues by Dave Hunt-- but NOBODY seems to remember those!) But at the time, hands down, the single worst-looking issue had to be when they teamed up Ric Estrada & John Calnan. (WRETCH!)

Mark Badger on AMERICAN FLAGG and GREEN LANTERN. (Made Estrada/Calnan look GOOD by comparison!)

Keith Giffen / Al Gordon on LEGION (did they both just deliberately decide to throw away EVERYTHING they ever learned about how to draw??? AND lay out pages?)

Chris Gardner on LEGION (what was that, FANZINE-level work?)

...and, going way back...

Arvell Jones / Aubrey Bradford on IRON FIST (thank GOD this "team" only did ONE episode!!!)

The worst artist I have ever seen, bar none, is Franscisco Herrera (He did several of the latter issues of Peter Parker: Spider-Man and is doing the first six issues of Venom). Its the sort of art that is painful to look at, impossible to follow, and has no merits or redeeming features whatsoever.

Humberto Ramos, Chris Balacho and Skottie Young (Human Torch) all rate dishonourable mentions too.

Oh, and if you need ink splodged over everything, give Bill Sienkiewicz a call...

I've got to wonder how some of these people get hired. There are so many excellent artists, both among the crop of professionals and aspiring amateurs.

I used to like Chris Bachalo *so* much when he was on "Shade the Changing Man". I dunno what steered him towards the barely decipherable images he produces now.

i looked him up, he's called Bill Jaaska !!! when he replaced Tom Grummett, i just couldn't understand why they would pick someone that bad to follow Tom's work !!!

perhaps they thought having a completely different style would be easier to take insted of getting someone who was good, but not quite as good as Tom Grummett ???

and i'd have to say i enjoyed Tom's work as much as George Perez's [ also ] especially during the "Titans Hunt" !!!

his Troia was great !!! and i loved the "Goddess" version of her, too ....

Matthew.

i don't read "The Hulk" but .... is it's artist Mike Deodato the same one who drew "Wonder Woman" up to issue #100 !!??

he was called Mike Deodato Jr !!?? though .... is it the same guy or father and son !!??

because if it is the same person, his style has changed a lot !!!!

and i don't think it's for the better !!!

Matthew.

Same guy. He posts @ http://www.comicboards.com/hulk if you want to double-check

thanks for the info SoM !!!

there's a big difference between these 2 books !!! i loved his work in "Wonder Woman" but his recent "Hulk" issues look like a different artist altogether .....

Matthew.

Bill Jaaska, Chris Gardner (oddly enough, his artwork almost is so similar to Pat Broderick), Steve Ditko (he sure made Legionnaires look like Mannequins!), and.....

George Tuska...take a look at JLA first series #223-240 something somewhere he drew for one issue..it was so HORRIBLE and so RUSHED!! look at Hawkgirl and her wings...so disjointed and out of whack. My gosh. the worst one I have ever seen.

"Oh, and if you need ink splodged over everything, give Bill Sienkiewicz a call..."

I loved Bill's work SO MUCH when he debuted on MOON KNIGHT, especially when inked by Bob McLeod (one of the best inkers in the history of the biz). Even on his own, I enjoyed a lot of Bill's later MK work. But when he got on NEW MUTANTS-- and his ART stared to "mutate"-- it was like... WHAT THE F*** is THIS SH**???

And THEN he did ELEKTRA: ASSASSIN. And DAREDEVIL: LOVE AND HONOR (which clearly was supposed to come out BEFORE "Born Again", not after-- but that's a writer-editor-schedulking F***-up). And THEN... STRAY TOASTERS. Oh, God. What drugs was this guy on when he did that?

I will admit, there was ONE scene-- right at the tail-end of a 4-issue prestige format series-- that I really, REALLY liked. It was the "long extension cord" gag. I laughed my A** off about that so much. This was mainly because-- incredibly-- I'd written a similar joke right around the same time, and was shocked that 2 people should have the same idea at the same time.

I once saw one of Sienkiewicz' paintings on display at the Society of Illustrators in NYC. Weird-- but cool. But do we REALLY want stuff like that as comics-art?

Me thinks the prof is having quite the catharsis?

I'll play. Moder. Just never liked any and still don't. I'm re-reading post Z-hour now, and finding myself to like the Moy depictions in comparison.

I liked his early Moon Knight (though derivative of Adams), loved his later Moon Knight, *loved* his New Mutants -- it was raw and dark and powerful to me. Loved Elektra: Assassin and the DD graphic novel. Stray Toasters didn't grab me because of the story, but I still liked the art -- though he was seriously into his Gustav Klimt phase. I've seen him ink some stuff lately and I'm not too crazy about that -- too much cross-hatchy stuff (I liked the big black swaths).

Bill? no no no way....his art was sooo mesmerizing in New Mutants...my gosh...he drew one of the most beautiful Danielle Moonstar ever !!! wow...and Loved when the New Mutants were fighting to rescue Legion (Doug Ramsey was there too)...what a story!!

The worst artist New Mutants I have seen was Bret Brevins or something like that - during the Mutants Massacre...terrible art and death of Doug and introduction of Bird-boy, yuck!!! ewww...

Bret Blevins -- oh yeah, I remember hating that art -- his characters looked kinda ugly. Liefeld seemed like such a great change back then (I liked him a lot when he first started, but then his style took a wrong turn once he started to try aping Jim Lee rather than Art Adams).