Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities 1602...Spoilers

Okay, this was the one post I remembered from before the crash. Or at least what number I was on when I started the thread originally. I don't know if we need spoiler space since the issue is two weeks old but I put spoiler in the title so don't read any further if you haven't read it. Its not like a real review anyway and I don't give much away.

I picked up my comics this week and my issue of 1602 was there. I did take some time to read it last night and, while I wasn't disappointed, I didn't find it as good as it could have been.

The art was good but not consistent. And there was something missing to the story. I can't quite put my finger on it but it was off.

Things I did like, and can remember:

Matthew, the blind minstrel: I liked the depiction of him and loved the Ballad of the Fantastic he began to sing.

Doctor Stephen Strange: Being the Queen's physician was a good choice. And when he said something about going home to the village of Greenwich, I laughed.

Warren (did they give a name?): His story of what happened to his mother and his thoughts as he waited to be burned were well written. But he was the only one of the 'witchbreed' I cared for in this first issue.

Sir Nicholas Fury, the Queen's intelligencer: Liked his title and he was portrayed as a good Machiavellian archetype.

What I didn't like:

Peter Parquagh: Eh. A kid fascinated with spiders. But there must be a reason Fury keeps him around. And I hope it isn't for special 'favors'.

"John" Grey: Badly drawn unless 'he' is supposed to be so obviously Jean that it was intentional.

The Inquisitor: Is that really supposed to be Magneto? Eww!

The "Witchbreed": Scotius and Robert (I don't remember the last names). I'm also assuming that Pietro and Sister Wanda are also witchbreed and the Inquisitor doesn't know or overlooks it. Maybe these characters just need some more fleshing out in the coming issues.

Queen Elizabeth: Shouldn't she be using the Royal 'we' when she speaks? Either this is a Gaiman red herring or he screwed up since she does use personal pronouns in some of her appearances.

Unless this epic event gets better it'll be another Marvel title that doesn't live up to the hype. Not saying it isn't good just not what was hyped.

Well, deja vu and all ... from the "preboot" version of this thread, I remember saying that it kinda reminds me of that X-Men issue where New York was remade by Kulan Gath as a barbaric city and the heroes stuck there were altered but maintained some of their interpersonal relationships and powers. Gaiman has stated that this is NOT an Elseworlds, so I'll stick around to see if they get into what has happened to the Marvel Universe (I suspect the Cosmic Cube, but we'll see (I just hope it's not another "made by Franklin Richards" reality)). That fact and Gaiman's past accomplishments will keep me coming back for at least one or two more issues.

Btw, Comics Continuum has an article with an annotated 1602. It mentions some of Gaiman's historical references, and his oblique (and not so oblique) references to the Marvel U. One thing I completely missed was the Native *American* blonde character "Rojhaz" was Steve *Rogers*, Captain America.

I totally missed that connection. I was trying to figure out who a blonde Native American was supposed to be. And what about the little girl? That one went over my head as well. Plus her look was a little to manga (sp?) for me.

And I remember you mentioning the Kulan Gath story Drake. I was wanting to dig it out and read it again as it was one of my favorite X stories but all my X books, with the exception of the current Ultimate series and Exiles, are in storage.

I only skimmed 1602 at the shop yesterday, but I couldn't bring myself to buy it. I like Gaiman's work, but it wasn't quite "on" enough for me to say "I've gotta have this".

Plus I can't really afford another book in my budget right now, without dropping another at this point (and that includes minis).

Maybe when its a TPB?

Considering the white hair and the odd weather, it might be Storm ?(there was also an actual historically similar mission where a native-born colonial child was sent back to England as an envoy of some kind -- the specifics are on that comicscontinuum page I mentioned).

Just bought 1601 #1. I must say that I'm not overly impresses. The writings good, the art consistent but somehow it just doesn't connect with me. As far as i can tell it's supposed to be "in continuity" and not an elseworlds type story. Personally it looks like an excuse to see how many Marvel characters Gaiman can fit into Elizabethan times. I'll keep buying it as its only a mini-series. I'm hoping it'll go some place over the remaining issues.

If I remember correctly the 'royal we' is actually quite a modern affectation brought in by the Hanoverians. I might be wrong about that but Gaimen is pretty good at checking things like that for historical accuracy (and he certainly knows the Elizabethan period very well and the probable way people spoke) so I think it's unlikely to be a mistake, unless of course it was a mistake made by the letteres or something.

Is there any historical documentation to her "We are not amused" line, or is that apocryphal?

I believe the "We are not amused" Line is attributed to Queen Victoria, not Liz. I have also heard/read that the anti-homosexuallaws in England from Victoria's time don't mention lesbians because Victoria insisted that there weren't any such women.

Ah. My bad.

The 'we are not amused' line is completely apocryphal although Victoria certainly used the royal We.

I've heard the same story about her not believing that there were lesbians (or even that women got pleasure from sex) but I don't know whether it's true or not. It's certainly true that the UK sex laws have never mentioned lesbian sex though so it could be true. Then again it might just be a made up explanation for why there are no laws to do with it.

After reading it again, she says something about being afraid of "changing" and hurting others -- so, I have no idea who this could be. I remember Gaiman saying something to the effect that he was using older Marvel characters for some reason (only those who appeared before 1962?) so there's no Wolverine and no modern characters to choose from.

I finally read it! Since her name is Virginia, I think she's She-Hulk. I know Virginia isn't quite the same as Jennifer, but it's damn close. And Rojahz (Sp?) is definitely Cap (Steve Rogers.)

: :

The girl seems like Snowbird from Alpha Flight... but that can't be right...

Snowbird is who my brother keeps saying he thinks it is, but I keep disagreeing with him!

Well, if she's meant to equivicate to a MU character, isn't Narya the only one that works?

She wasn't created early enough -- I think Gaiman's only sticking to Marvel characters from a certain era (I forgot the cut-off, but that's why the X-Men are only the originals). I'd guess she's a new element that's introduced just for this story.

More info on Virginia Dare; she's a real person...
Virginia Dare

I'm pretty sure that Gaiman is using Virginia Dare as the main reason that the Marvel heroes and villians are in the past to begin with.

Thanks Wayne for the link! It is just the kind of thing that Gaiman loves, and her dissapearance may lead to her being brought back to the MU proper. Why? Well, it would give Gaiman his own creation in the Marvel Universe, and may be one of his upcoming projects. Also, it makes sense. Time and time again, Gaiman and Joe Quesada have said that this "isn't an elseworlds" and "take place in actual MU continuity". Well, so far, that's not really that true. Even if it did take place in actual MU continuity, then they'd just be sent back home and nothing would be changed. Unless, Virginia Dare comes back with them and is part of Gaiman's next project, in modern times. Then, this would explain why 1602 is 'truly' part of Marvel continuity.

Well, that's my theory.

I thought the latest issue was the best yet, so much happened! The best part was the introduction of Thor, since I didn't make the connection of Donal to Donald Blake (shame on me, I'm a huge Thor fan!). Then the FF, the X-Men, Matt Murdock, Fury and Dugan and Thor all united in taking down Dr. Doom! Very well written!

Since Rojaz, the Native American with Virginia Dare, is drawn to look like Thor on purpose, to throw us off from Donal being the real Thor (with his walking stick as Mjolnir, the treasure of the Templars), it'll be interesting to see who Rojaz really is too! I wonder what connection Virginia and Rojaz have to the calamity in the skies and the heroes thrown back through time. I was thinking Galactus all along, but now I don't know...

Other cool things:

The dinosaurs on the New World. In the back round two issues ago, there are dinosaurs chasing pilgrims. Definately done by Gaiman on purpose, since it's pretty well established that he's meticulous in planning what is drawn in each panel. I wonder if he'll come back to this.

John Grey- Obviously Jean from the beginning, and I found myself smiling. I figured that any other writer might make me suspect that the artist was messing up a bit, but I know that Gaiman probably urged the artist to draw Jean as a girl, despite being called a boy.

Queen Elizabeth and James of Scottland- great use of real characters! I wish he had more time to do other ones!

And Fury and Strange- the best two reasons for buying this book! Gaiman does a great job with them, they are the stars so far. I wish he could do a mini or ongoing with either character!

Rojaz = Steve Rodgers, Captain America. That's been blatant all along.

So where is Tony Stark then?

And Hank Pym ?

Hank Pym is there. He's just so small no one can see him.

And I've been enjoying this series as well. Elseworld style tales are some of my favourate comic stories, and I'm loving this series.

My one worry is how everything is going to be tied up in the final issue. I just hope it isn't rused or anything and this tale gets the ending it deserves.

Look here: http://newsarama.com/forums/printthread.php?threadid=4284
I remembered the "No Stark" bit - but I forgot about the "many others included for those who look"...