Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Superman/Batman

I'm only still getting the title out of habit. Haven't cracked open an issue since the LSV arc.

I can't believe the length of the last story arc. And for what? To remind us that Kal is an alien and the humanity taught him by the Kents is all that saves us from a super powerful extra terrestrial overlord. (no wonder Jor-El comes across as pissed off most of the time)

Yeah, I was getting it for the guest stars but I was so bored with the story that I had to force myself to plonk down hard earned cash for it.

Ah, Superman / Batman. There is absolutely no reason this shouldn’t be the number one selling comic book every single month. The characters, quite simply, should sell it themselves. There is also no reason why the very best writers and artists should be on this title—again, it sells itself and almost should be a reward for DC’s best since they’ll make more money on it.

And yet…the title is basically crap. And has been since almost inception. Loeb actually started pretty good on this title IIRC—but of course, it is Loeb afterall and the quality took a nose dive pretty quickly. And it never really recovered.

I actually don’t mind if it stands outside continuity. Particularly in this current DCU. That could totally work to its advantage. But it should at least matter. And it feels like the stories here just don’t matter in the slightest.

The latest Blackest Night crossover featured Solomon Grundy, Man-Bat and Bizarro—in other words, it had some potential. It also had art by Scott Kollins, whose art I know isn’t everyone’s cup of tea (I actually like Kollins work quite a bit because its different and has such a rugged quality to it). But the story itself was pretty bleh. Lots of punching but not a lot going on. Nothing of any real consequence happens to anyone.

I hope somehow DC can get it together and make this the completely awesome comic book it should be. It needs good writing, good art, some consistent quality and stories that actually matter. To both Superman and Batman and the larger DCU, but don’t let continuity bog you down. If Superman is in space, let the fans figure out where it fits in—but make sure the story here accomplishes something in terms of characterization in some way.

I know the oncoming stories will actually be set in the past, during various DC events. Which means it could be a disaster in story-telling or it could be good. Frankly, I don’t care all that much about it at this point, so I won’t argue either side. If they could just tell some damn good stories, I’d be on board 100% with whatever they did.

Honestly, they should have Geoff Johns and Ivan Reis on this after BN and try to start breaking sales records again.

I haven't bought this title in a long time but I really like the idea of seeing new stories set during some of DC big "events" of the past.

Why they chose to set their first story during the execrable non-event that was Our Worlds At War is beyond me though.

Y'know- I have to wonder if the fact that this wasn't titled from the beginning "World's Finest", as it should've been, wasn't a sort of self-defeating prophecy.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=24684

A couple of quotes from that Joe Casey interview. He seems less than enthused at the idea as well.

^^^ Thanks Reboot.

I like seeing creators being suitably critical of their own (or others') work. It makes me feel more confident of their talents when I know they can call shit "shit" just as easily as I can, rather than always kow-towing to the company line.

And I'm glad Casey seems to have a sense of humour about the whole thing.

I read the issue and I can understand where Casey is coming from. Why in the world would they return to the shitty Our Worlds at War logo? Talk about making a comic DOA. Still, Casey's story didn't really justify a better marketing ploy...it was pretty boring and seems pretty irrelevant. Talk about a yawner.

So I just finished Superman / Batman 72. It was a great start to the story.

Compared to Legion #1 it was "smaller" but it was still excellent. All the players are showcased and it set up a story that seems to be pretty intriguing.

Anyone else like it?

Just read it myself, Matt and my reaction is: Wow, what a really great story! I've collected Superman/Batman since #1 and this is the definition of a series that can't find an identity and just lingers along. I say with some firm feeling that this has been the single best issue to date for this series!

I would also say this is probably a stronger showing for Paul than Legion #1 and really showcases several things he excels at as a writer.

- The Superman in space sequences where he's doing things with his powers and giving the readers some first person narration are absolutely terrific. Paul captures Superman's essence (the larger 70 year history essence) incredibly well. I've said it in the Legion thread but Paul really knows how to showcase a characters personality and powers by having them *do* things other than be a talking head and get into a gang fight.

- He has two really intriguing subplots running: the Batman/Lois one and the Lexor one (at least, I think that's where this is going). Both appear to be building to a single story about worshiping & hating Superman (and if it is Lexor, worshiping Lex). Paul is able to make both subplots equally interesting while not missing a beat switching back and forth between them.

- Little human moments like Lois attending a funeral, Clark commenting on his love of space exploration and Batman working on another case. Giving us insight into their daily routine before a larger, more grandiose story overtakes them. This is like classic comic book writing 101, yet no one does it anymore. Kudos to Paul!

Besides the writing, Jerry Ordway really does a superb job here! Welcome back Jerry! I feel like I haven't seen his artwork in awhile outside of the JSA, and it's really nice to see him doing Supes & Bats again. He is able to show a cosmic Superman in space sequence countered by a down to Earth Batman in Metrpolis or Gotham sequence.

The coloring/inking on the issue also gives Ordway's pencils a really different feel than I've ever seen them before. It's so different that its noticeable and I like it quite a bit. It lends a little extra polish to it, IMO.

All in all this was a really great issue and I highly recommend it! This is Paul's strongest showing thus far among all the comics he's written since his 'return', and its also by far the best Superman/Batman story to date since this decedent of World's Finest relaunched.

I bought S/B 72. Though I won't get around to reading it for awhile, I bought it specifically because Paul was writing! Don't forget, also, that the S/B Annual #4 featuring Batman Beyond came out last week--also written by Paul Levitz! Make sure you pick up that as well, Matt! Bought it and can't wait to read it (though I will )!

My store was sold out of the Annual, so I've got a copy on back order. Looking forward to checking it out.

I didn't even think to look for #72.

Funny you should mention that Annual Lardy, as I just read it and reported back here to post my comments!

My above praise of Levitz's #72 continues right into the Annual, as it is another terrific example of solid storytelling. It's a much darker style and tone and almost completely different from the previous tale, more fitting with the Batman Beyond future timeline. Levitz does a great job balancing the tone of both of these issues with Legion and Adventure--four comic books on different points of the tone spectrum in one month. Well done, Paul!

Batman: Beyond is a world I'm pretty unfamiliar with as I only ever watched like one episode or two previously and know little about it. In fact, I was hoping Lardy would check in here since I know he's a fan and my interest in Batman: Beyond is really based on knowing he was so fond of it from a conversation we had years ago. My lack of familiarity with it isn't because I don't like it however; I find the premise interesting enough. So as my first real exposure to Terry McGuinness, I found the character to be unique enough from other Bat-characters and likable in his own way. Levitz does a great job as establishing him as the lead character of this story while also making sure both Bruce and Superman are ever-present.

The usage of Superman is also quite good: a future Superman story different enough from previous 'future Superman' stories that has some heart to it, references past continuity (to keep some readers happy but not distracting to a newbie like me), and also has some pretty ingenious Superman-mythos related plot devices explaining what he's doing these days.

Renato Guedes provides the art and does a great job at showing the moody, darker atmosphere of the future. It's actually his future Metropolis, which is depicted as darker and dirtier that he really shines. There is a claustrophobic sense of Metropolis that is played up well here. It actually feels filthy. He also gets to showcase his skills by doing a great Artic sequence for the Fortress of Solitude.

Of course, the story is great because of the little things Paul does like I say in the above #72, but even more noticeable here is this is a story with some real heart to it.

A little more specific:
<span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Bruce & Clark don't actually interact all story but it is still a bit of a subtle love letter to their friendship / relationship, completely played as a subtle background to Terry's interaction with Superman. And the Lois Lane scenes were a nice touch. Very well done by Paul.</span></span>

For Batman: Beyond fans this is a must. For Levit fans, I also recommend, especially if you get his other comics this month to Marvel at how different they are. Especially if you check out his recent House of Mystery story which is even further along the spectrum. And of course, if you're looking for a solid story, this is a solid buy.

Who would have though Superman / Batman, the black sheep of DC titles, would get good again? Bravo, Paul!

Quick question - I think I remember reading that Paul was going to be using the Legion in Superman/Batman somewhere/sometime. Does this arc seem like the one that that's going to happen in? Or are they scheduled for another arc?

'Cause I'd like to buy whichever story the Legion appear in here but the budget can't stretch to include any they won't unfortunately (as good as you guys make it sound).

Blacula, the solicitations for the S/B arc have contained hints that there will be consequences for the 31st Century but there's been no explicit mention of the LSH guest-starring. So there may just be a story point that will be followed up on in LSH at some point. If the Legion appear, I believe it will be towards the end of the 5(?)-part arc...if at all.

^ Cool. Thanks OT. I'll be keeping my eye on this book/arc then.

I suspect the Legion will appear in #75, but to be honest, I'm not sure. The story set-up in #72 does't hint at them at all being involved but that could be a later surprise down the road.

Have you read enough to see what the Legion connection is yet? If there is and it's super-spoilery, a vague reference will suffice.

Thus far, there doesn't appear to be one. Which means either (A) there isn't or (B) Paul hasn't gotten around to introducing it yet in the story...

72 was a good opening issue. Things happen, and set up the arc. Paul finds the characters easily enough.

Didn't notice a Legion connection yet...

Wow! Just read the annual and loved it! Paul was writing in a completely different voice!
I would never have guessed he was the scripter if his name wasn't in the credits.

^applause on thread merger

^suck up...

Well, I'm the one who requested it and then felt guilty for making work for our fearless Founder...

I just put down Superman/Batman Annual #4, written by our very own Paul Levitz, and really, REALLY enjoyed the hell out of it! It's a terrific standalone that tells a story firmly set in the universe of Batman Beyond. It was really good to see this universe finally revisited as the cartoon was a well-done, underappreciated sequel of sorts to the classic Batman: The Animated Series.

To address a certain point made on the previous page by the Cobester:

<extended rant follows, you've been warned >

I'm not quite the expert on Batman Beyond that Cobie misremembers me to be. Unfortunately, during the years the show aired, I missed out on the show's first run for various reasons. One of these was a general indifference I had to the concept because it was marketed poorly and I had little or no access to any sources that might have given it the buzz I needed to hear at the time.

But at some point, I was buying DVDs on eBay and happened on a great deal for some BBeyond-related DVDs. The lot contained a collection of about a dozen episodes and the direct-to-DVD film "Return of the Joker". I think it was interest in the Joker DVD that caused me to purchase the lot.

All I know is those were some really terrific cartoons! I was afraid they were trying to 'Spider-man-ize' Batman with this series. To some extent, that's a fair assessment. However, it's futuristic setting and it's direct continuity with the classic Batman Animated made it a real keeper. This was really underlined by Kevin Conroy's continued presence voicing Bruce Wayne, the presence of Barbara Gordon as Gotham's future police commissioner and all the mysterious references as to what occurred in the lengthy time gap between the former series and this one.

Unfortunately, you just can't find Batman Beyond anywhere on the cable stations I get. I think it gets aired on Boomerang or one of those othersthat I don't get, but it's a CRYING SHAME that Cartoon Network doesn't air it and some of the other vintage animateds like they used to! I'm fairly sure they could air any WB property pretty easily. I guess they'd rather rerun the same crap day-in and day-out!

Anyhow, the end result, is I've seen maybe half of all the Batman Beyond episodes ever produced, tops (and waaaay less than half of such programs as Justice League and JL Unlimited). So, sadly, I cannot be considered anything like an expert on BBeyond. I'm sure I'll rectify that some day.....

<gets off soapbox>

Anyhow, near as I can tell, Paul was very faithful to the BBeyondverse and especially to the characters of Bruce and Terry here. For my money, this is the best story by far that Paul has written since he returned to writing. Granted, it's a short list so far, but this story showed me, more than anything else, that Paul still has the writing chops in spades. Terrific story. Great dialogue/monologue. Complete understanding of the BBeyondverse and mythos.

And, most importantly, an awesome done-in-one story. I definitely got my money's worth here without a doubt. Not too often that you get that in a $5 comic, really.

Did I mention the art? Frikkin' OUTSTANDING!!! I've seen Renado Guedes's work on Superman and enjoyed it, but nothing he's done before impressed me like this one! His style evokes Frank Quitely's a little bit, but I never felt he was aping Quitely's style. Guedes was massive on fine details (the 'wrinkles', I'd characterize them) like Quitely is, but at the same time, there's a softening up there that draws you away from being so focused on those fine details. I'm not sure if that makes any sense.....perhaps in Guedes' case you can appreciate the forest without being distracted by the trees? I love Quitely, but the trees distract somewhat if you know what I mean?

I'd love to see more work from Guedes. I already know from Superman that a monthly schedule is not achievable for him, but he is a fine, fine talent who deserves a share of the limelight. Did I mention he did the coloring on this annual, too?

All in all, a terrific annual...a great example of what the format used to do and what it should strive to do again. Not a groundbreaking, astonishing or shocking story. Just a really well-crafted one. I highly recommend this one!

Plus: <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">It had two panels of Mon-El in it! )</span></span>