Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities What is your X-Men reading roadmap?

With all due credit to Thriftshop Debutante for inspiring this thread by starting the Legion reading roadmap thread.
http://www.legionworld.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000186

After being here at Legion World for almost two years, I’ve noticed that the X-Men and its various spinoffs seem to be second only to the Legion of Super-Heroes in popularity, so I thought this was the right place for a thread like this.

My introduction to the X-Men was the Marvel 50th anniversary coffee-table book, which inspired me to buy the trade collecting The Dark Phoenix Saga. I loved the story at the time; it doesn’t hold up that well, especially the part with Dazzler (yuck), although the Byrne/Austin art still looks great, and the battle against the Imperial Guard is awesome.

My “real-time” introduction to the X-Men was around the beginning of the Nicieza/Lobdell era, although I do remember reading the first four issues of Adjectiveless X-Men and a 2nd printing of X-Force #1 – I didn’t like any of them, partly because of the art, partly because of the bad plotting (which was done by the artists, of course). Although I agree with a lot of the criticism of the Nicieza/Lobdell era, I do think it started off with a bang. The mega-crossover X-Cutioner’s Song kicked ass, and it’s second only to the Avengers’ Operation: Galactic Storm among the few mega-crossovers that actually work for me! And in the aftermath, Lobdell added some interesting new members to the Acolytes, especially Carmella Unuscione, probably my favorite C-List mutant. Meanwhile, in the satellite X-Books, Alan Davis was doing a superlative job as writer/penciler of Excalibur, and Peter David was doing fresh and witty work on X-Factor.

But things quickly fell apart all around – Peter David’s X-Factor did the classic psychotherapy issue only for PAD to be gone two issues later, and Alan Davis leaving Excalibur not long after, while over in X-Force, the loathsome Cable was brought back from the dead. The awfulness continued to snowball, with Nicieza’s “Who’s the real Betsy?” fiasco, Lobdell’s tendency to fall flat in the action department, the awful Fatal Attractions crossover, and the almost-equally-awful Avengers/X-Men crossover Bloodties. That’s pretty much where I lost interest in the then-current status of the X-Books.

Fortunately, there were the reprints and the back-issue bins – and what a treasure chest they were! Thanks to Classic X-Men, I was able to completely catch up with the Claremont/Cockrum and Claremont/Byrne eras; there were also reprints of the ground-breaking Roy Thomas/Neal Adams era, and I also added an original printing of one of Steranko’s issues, the one where Lorna Dane’s superpowers are awakened (which, at the time, had never been reprinted) to my collection. And that’s only the 1960s and 1970s – the early-to-mid-1980s held lots of gems: Claremont/Sienkiwicz’s brief but definitive run on New Mutants (Demon Bear, Legion, and more); Claremont/Art Adams’ Asgardian Wars; Ann Nocenti/Art Adams’ Longshot mini-series; Claremont/Alan Davis’ Mojoworld story in New Mutants Annual # 2, possibly my favorite of all the stories Claremont has written; Claremont/Romita’s Rachel Summers, Selene, Kulan Gath, Magus, Hellions, Trial of Magneto, and Freedom Force stories; Claremont/Barry Windsor-Smith’s Lifedeath stories; Louise Simonson/Walt Simonson’s X-Factor; Louise Simonson/various artists’ New Mutants (I know a lot of people don’t like those stories, but I do); and Claremont/Walt Simonson’s X-Men/New Teen Titans Special. Ironically enough, one of the few X-Men runs from this period that I dislike is the very popular Claremont/Paul Smith run (Smith’s artwork turned me off, and the Brood and Morlocks and “Punk Rock Storm” things made me sick.) The late 1980s held very little interest for me, with Ann Nocenti quitting as X-Editor and being replaced by Bob Harras, and with ridiculously overrated artists Jim Lee, Rob Liefeld, Marc Silvestri, and Whilce Portacio allowed to dominate the direction of the books instead of Claremont and L. Simonson, both of whom had been pushed out of the picture by the early 1990s.


During the mid-1990s, I did occasionally dip my toe back in the X-Universe, depending on the creators involved – for instance, after Steve Epting left Avengers, he did a lot of work on the X-Books, bouncing from one thing to another, with me following him: Epting and John Francis Moore came up with a promising new direction for X-Factor, only for Moore to almost immediately get replaced by the dreadful Howard Mackie, and Epting understandably leaving after less than one year; a couple years later, Epting and Moore collaborated on the 1997 X-Men Annual, which was pretty good; finally, Epting worked with John Ostrander on the okay-ish Bishop: X.S.E. mini-series.

As the 20th Century approached its end, I went on a hiatus from comics that lasted until 2005. As I caught up with the whole comics scene, I found two excellent sources of X-Books information: uncannyxmen.net and thexaxis.com. Thanks to those two sites, I found out everything I had missed...and it turned out I hadn’t missed much. Meanwhile, Claremont was proving he was way, way past his prime on Uncanny X-Men while Peter Milligan was going through the motions on Adjectiveless X-Men, and while Joss Whedon’s first arc on Astonishing X-Men was quite good, his work on that book has continuously declined since then. None of the other X-Books held any interest for me.

But then, at the end of 2005, along came Peter David’s 2nd run on X-Factor! This proved to be the best ongoing X-Book since...well, Peter David’s 1st run on X-Factor, and it’s been pure pleasure following in month after month. X-Factor renewed my faith in comics, and the announcement a few months later that Claremont and Milligan were to be replaced by edgy writers Ed Brubaker and Mike Carey seemed to promise a bright new future for the X-Books in general.

It has now been one year since Brubaker and Carey took over, and its clear I was overly optimistic – Brubaker’s would-be space opera epic was IMO utterly abysmal, and while Carey’s stories have been consistently good, they’ve been considerably weakened by terrible art from Chris Bachalo and Humberto Ramos. So I’m dropping Brubaker’s book, while I’m still undecided about Carey’s book. Oh, and later this year the X-Books are having their first mega-crossover in years, Messiah Complex. I have little or no interest in it, and I fear for the future of the X-Books.

But as long as Peter David is still writing X-Factor, I’ll have a ray of sunshine among the gray clouds that make up the X-Universe of 2007.

I think X-men/LSH share a lot of parallels. Not least is the fact that both franchises have that 'infrequently seen 'minor' character' chord that can hook a reader for life.

As difficult as seeing the reboots with LSH can be, the X-books suffer from something else-- the obsessive attention of editorial interference. I think their very success has damaged the various X-properties.

I don't really remember the first X-books I read-- it was probably a crossover with the Fantastic Four. Or maybe a reprint in the back of an annual in the 70's.

The first actual issues I remember are informed by the fact that I knew about the characters and the general plotline of X-men. There's two of them-- the first is the issue where the X-men think Professor X is dead (for the first time) and start to figure out what their lives will be like. The issue had a black cover with circles featuring the team-members in various scenarios on it. It was several years old by the time I got it-- it was one comic in a box of books my dad brought home one day.

The second issue-- and the one that made me a fan-- was part of the Neal Adams/Roy Thomas sentinels saga, featuring early appearances by Havok and Lorna Dane. I loved the art and really got into Angel, Iceman and Beast. It helps that I found this issue in the tiny grocery store/Deli at a campground in the Smokies where we were vacationing. The pool, a particularly nice one, was just down a small hill from the shop. Is there anything better in a pre-teenager's life than an ice-cream cone, a new comic on a summer day and the prospect of a plunge in a big, cold swimming pool? Now, of course, a boy the age I was then wouldn't be allowed to go to a campground store by himself, buy stuff and spend the afternoon alone at a pool.

Which is tragic.

I was heart-broken when the book was cancelled a few months later. Though I picked up a couple of those reprints that were published between the end volume I and the relaunch, I don't think I would've picked up the New X-men if Dave Cockrum hadn't been the artist. I liked the X-men a lot, but they *definitely* weren't the LSH. I like lots of the characters that have been introduced over the years, but those original 5 + 2 will *always* be 'the' X-men I first think of when I think of things 'X'.

My roadmap has the distinction of starting with the book "ROM". I don't know how often a crossover works in the opposite direction its intended, but "Rom, Spaceknight" was the first book I collected and it was the two-part crossover with the X-Men that got me interested in them. I think the first issue I bought (actually, I think my brother bought it) was the final chapter of the first Brood storyline penciled by Paul Smith. I was totally hooked and started buying up back issues right away (or as fast as my allowance could handle).

Like many others, it was due to the strength of the Smith and of course Byrne runs that made me stick with the franchise for waaaaaay longer than I should have. I still buy "Astonishing" and the tangential "X-Factor", but there's little about that franchise that interests me at this point.

My roadmap begins with the original series. The first issue I got had a guest appearnce by Spiderman and I enjoyed it enough to begin buying regularly. I stayed with the series straight through to it's cancellation (the story arc that Mystery Lad mentions which included the appearances of Havok and Lorna.) I never understood why the original series was cancelled (not being aware or concerned with sales figures at the time) because that was a terrific tale the writers told in that last arc.

Some months later the franchise was revived with the introduction of Colossus, Storm, Nightcrawler, etc and I picked up the first few issues. While I loved the artwork, the stories didn't hook me and I resented the fact that my favorites (Angel & Iceman) were no longer on the team. After a few months I dropped the book.

I've picked up issues here and there over the years but have never resumed collecting. I'm afraid the X-world left my stop at the end of the first series.

My roadmap started when I was real young. A neighboorhood kid was older than I and was really into Claremont's/Byrne's X-Men. He let me read a few. The Arcade issue is the first one I read. I developed into a big Avengers fan a few years later and picked up the Uncanny X-Men with Kulan Gath in it.

I started collecting Uncanny with #203. #203 through 213 are probably my favorite issues ever. After that I seemed to get bored with them. But I bought them off and on until 280 something after Claremont left. I still would read a friends but I never really got into Uncanny again after that.

Never got into Adjectiveless X-Men until recently. Mostly thanks to Havok/Polaris and now due to the creative team.

I've liked every incarnation of X-Factor. never loved them (except for the Simonson/Apocalypse stuff).

I loved John Francis Moore X-Force.

New Mutants from about #18/#19 through #60something I really liked.

Great idea for a contiuation of Teed's Legion thread! I can't wait to read all your replies, but I'll do mine first:

I first encountered the X-Men when reading the Kirby/Lee run of the FF’s Silver Age, when I was around 11 or 12. Some of you may know that I began my comic book reading carreer with Marvel’s Silver Age comics, as my father owns a collection of comics that spans 1958 to the present, with the majority of DC and Marvel comics during that period being a part of the collection. This is how I began reading comics, and my father always told me to ‘start at the beginning’. So I began with Marvel’s Silver Age, not bothering to pick up DC comics for some time (and considered myself a Marvel fan for quite a long time). I read the X-Men appearance in FF with the Mad Thinker and the Android and was intrigued, and then came across them again in various places (Iceman in ‘Strange Tales’, Magneto in ‘Journey into Mystery/Thor’ etc.). Finally, I checked out the Silver Age X-Men mainly to read #9, with the Avengers/X-Men crossover. So the first X-Men comic I ever read were roughly (Uncanny) X-Men #1-25.

Now, the Marvel Silver Age is what I think of as the greatest comics period in the history of comics. Silver Age Spider-Man is sacrosanct to me. Ditto for FF and Thor, and generally anything Kirby touched. Iron Man was at its greatest, I loved the Giant-Man stories, I loved the Westerns, Avengers #1-60 are phenomenal, etc., etc. But to be quite honest, the Silver Age X-Men just didn’t do it for me. Perhaps it was the similar costumes and the recurring appearances of Magneto and the Brotherhood of Evil. Perhaps it was because at age 10, in 1991, I was fully aware that the X-Men were Marvel’s most popular franchise and it bugged the hell of me that they were more popular than the much better Fantastic Four, Avengers, Thor, etc. But I wasn’t into them.

Well, after seeing them throughout the reading of various runs of Marvel comics (I read all of the Spider-Man, FF, Thor, Iron Man, Daredevil, Cap and Avengers runs), I had a pretty general idea of who they were and how the team changed. I fully understood the popularity of the X-Men, and especially Wolverine. So the first time I ever read a full-on ‘off the stands’ X-Men comic was when they tied into ‘Bloodties’ with Avengers, in a story about Luna that heavily featured the Acolytes, Exodus, etc. I was intrigued, and IIRC, the cartoon was on at that time, so I wanted to know more.

I began with Jim Lee’s X-Men #1, which had about ten covers, and introduced me to Rogue, Gambit and Psylocke. To this day, Rogue and Gambit remain two of my favorites, even though If fully realize that when their relationship is the most important thing they are not as interesting. As I did around then with all thigns comic book related (I was about 13 now), I dived headfirst and tried to read every comic I could. The problem was, we were missing all of Cockrum and Byrne’s issues with Claremont, so I was still all disjointed in my reading experience. I did start reading both main X-Men titles as they were coming off the stands, around the time of the realigning of the teams (X-Men #1 onwards), and I still to this day think there were some very excellent stories post-Claremont during the 1990’s. At least for the first few years.

It wasn’t until I was about 16 that I began tracking down all the back issues with my father, completing the Thomas/Adams run, picking up some Byrne’s and Cockrum’s and then finding on my own one of my first major purchases to the collection, Giant Size X-Men #1 for a whopping $90.00, which was astronomical to me at age 16. Still, I bought it. It wasn’t until around age 19 that my father and I completed the collection, so we had every ‘main team’ X-Men comic every published (not counting a few mini-series, X-Force or X-Factor). During the summer of 2000 (during the first of one of my famous absences from the LMB) I sat down and read the entire run #1 – the current issue.

And that’s when I became a true, die-hard X-Men fan. I still am not overly in love with the Silver Age X-Men, and I enjoy but don’t *love* the Thomas/Adams stuff, but I really, truly, love the Claremont/Cockrum/Byrne stuff, and love the Claremont/Romita Jr. stuff as well. My favorite X-Men are by far Kitty, Colossus and Nightcrawler, although as I said earlier, I still love Rogue and Gambit too. Cyclops is my favorite of the originals and I believe Jean should never have been revived (although their wedding story was great). I really do love Wolverine, and his issues with the first Hellfire Club story and the first Brood story are two of the best Wolverine stories ever. Unfortunately, over exposure has to done to him a great disservice that can never be fixed. But Claremont (and there is not doubt it was Claremont above all) made Wolverine a great character. Claremont certainly had his flaws, especially once the team became dark and ended up in Australia, but its an injustice to discount all the magic he injected into the X-Men. I loved the Dark Phoenix Saga, the Brood, and all those other great stories, and I even loved ‘Mutant Massacre’, which I think was *still* a time for X-Men excellence, and would put that shift later, around ‘Fall of the Mutants’, although my buddy Lard Lad would suggest its earlier than ‘Massacre’, around the time of ‘Secret Wars II crossover’.

Loved the New Mutants, especially Magik. I fell in love with Kitty at age 16 when I disjointedly read some earlier X-Men stories, but at age 19, I actually really did fall in love with Kitty as I read her entire beginning. The X-Men in space could never work in the movies, but the sheer quality of any story with the X-Men in space are a tribute to how comics can actually work as ‘high concept art’ at its finest. Mr. Sinister was probably the best new Marvel villain invented in the 80’s, probably along with Nebula.

But the X-Men did suffer for a bit b/c of the Australia stuff, and the dangling plot-lines became all-consuming. The X-Men became the center of everything going wrong in comics at the end of Claremont’s run, but Lee’s art started to shift it back. And then Chris was gone and the artists fled to Image, and actually…actually, the X-Men got good again. For a time. But the 90’s were harsh, especially the mid 90’s, and a series of crossovers and marketing ploys made it harder to follow. But the real damage hit when Claremont returned, which was sad (not really 90’s).

However, I actually think the four X-Titles today are of very good quality, especially Brubaker’s Uncanny X-Men and David’s X-Factor. All (4) are worth the purchase IMO, so I still have hope and collect the regularly. Carey’s X-Men is really more ‘X-Force’, but it’s high energy and fun. Whedon’s is probably the weakest, but he did give me the greatest X-Men moment in the last 20 years, so I still look forward to what he’s going to give me next. (Best moment you ask? The villain is fleeing and the X-Men have no way to get him, except suddenly, they realize that with them is Colossus, returned after all these years—Wolverine just looks at him and says what I had wanted to hear since, at age 19, I first read the run: “I’ve got two words for you”—and no words were needed, just Cassidy’s art, as the fast ball special is seen in full effect, and Wolverine going flying).

I’ve also spent many years now online and talking to other X-fans to try and cover every single dangling plot I possibly could. I definitely am not the best source, as I regularly ask Reboot and others questions about stuff (and I still feel like I’m not sure exactly of the entire story behind Mr. Sinister), but I have no doubt that I am an X-Men ‘geek’.

PS – Best moment before the latest Whedon one? I have my own for that too. Its around UXM #180-190, when things had gotten truly bad for the X-Men, around when they first entered their ‘dark’ phase but still weren’t *that* dark yet. Storm was depowered and Cyclops had essentially left the team, and things were continually going wrong. In the final five or six pages of the issue, Claremont shifted his attention to a meeting called by Nightcrawler with Prof. X, Kitty and Colossus where Nightcrawler seriously thought about disbanding the X-Men. His reasoning was simple, but the emotional impact of each sentence became heightened, as Romita Jr. showed us the reactions of those in the room, as well as the New Mutants sitting on the stairs, listening in to the private discussion secretly. Storm depowered! Banshee crippled! Thunderbird dead! Jean dead! Nightcrawler’s words hit like a hammer, because after just reading all those issues, I really felt what he was saying—I lived it with them, and these recent dark times seemed just too dark. And calmly, Prof X explains that yes, times are tough, and terrible things happen. But he has a dream of a better place and will pursue it to his end, and will do what he can to reach that ideal. He would make the world better for mutants and humans alike, no matter what. And Kurt looks at him, and says he’ll be there with him. And the others nod. And whether he meant it or not, Claremont gave me the encouragement to see the X-Men through all their roughest times, whether in the stories or outside of them.

A few things I forgot to include in my first post:

-- Another current X-Book I read is Cable & Deadpool; I have mixed feelings about it, because whenever the focus shifts from Deadpool to Cable, I start getting bored, and because the humor is uneven -- sometimes it's clever and subversive, other times it's too childish.

-- In addition to Steve Epting's stuff, I also bought the issues of Adjectiveless X-Men that Alan Davis penciled and co-plotted (with the editors) during the late 1990s. The stories are pretty much indefensible (especially since almost none of the issues are readable without also reading Uncanny X-Men) but the art sure is great.

-- I really didn't get too much into what I think about the characters, so I'll correct that right now:

Favorite founding members: Cyclops, Jean Grey, Beast

Favorite members introduced during the Bronze Age: Kitty Pryde, Nightcrawler, Colossus

Favorite New Mutants: Magma, Dani Moonstar, Warlock

Favorite Excalibur members: Rachel Summers, Kylun, Cerise

Favorite members of PAD's 1st X-Factor: Guido, Wolfsbane, Madrox

Favorite members of PAD's 2nd X-Factor: Monet St. Croix, Siryn, Layla Miller

Friends gave me a smattering of X-Men issues to read, but none really grabbed me. But then X-Force debuted, with all the hype and me not knowing anything about Liefeld or mutants.

I liked the fun of those first few issues. Stealth and I do agree the X-Cutioner's Song was that damn good. After Rob left the book, Fabian really made these kids shine. Cannonball grew into his own as a leader, rivaling Cyclops as a strategist. Warpath lost his anger and found his soul. The dichotomy with his name and his character really stood out. Tabitha changed and grew, but kept that inner child that makes us all read comics. Rictor & Shatterstar- 'nuff said. This book rocked, through the Age of Apocalypse. Since then, it never found it's footing, tried to become too indy. And the X-Statix team was just not fair to this long time reader.

After the X-Cutioner's Song, I tried out a few other X-books. Not being a fan of Russian literature, I couldn't get into Lobdell's writing. All melodrama, no action. But I started collecting back issue trades (Mutant Genesis, Crossroads, Xtinction Agenda) and enjoyed the backstories. Rogue and Gambit stood out as favourites, and their constant whining in the '90's made it tough to follow their books. I dug the Blue & Gold teams, and hated the blurring lines. I did collect X-men crossovers like the Phalanx Covenant, LegionQuest and AOA.

Excalibur was a great book under Ellis. I liked the Kitty Pryde and Pete Wisdom banter. The Pryde & Wisdom mini should have been an ongoing. I stuck around after Ellis left because Nightcrawler is my favourite mutuant. But it never had that energy again.

I signed on with Gen X from the beginning. But it didn't last long. And X-factor always seemed like a poor copy. With Claremont's return to the X-men proper (and those being the only X-books) I started collecting them. He didn't seem to have that spark from his original run. After Morrisson, Austen, and Milligan I've passed on the X-men for good. Trades only, and only if my friends rave about them.

That said, PAD's X-Factor is one of 2 Marvel books I enjoy. The other is Cable & Deadpool, because Fabe gets Cable.


<edited for miscommunication errors.>

It is obvious that there has been some miscommunication here.

I have posted only kind words about Warpath.

And while I have sometimes been critical of Fabian, I think his good work outweighs his bad work.

I apologize for that. Referring to an exchange over in the Uncanny Xmen thread, I wrongly credited you with someone else comments about Warpath being boring.

As for Fabe, the only time he hasn't impressed me was the recent X-Force mini with Rob. i think his work on X-Men was the bright spot to Lobdell's melodrama.

Again, my apologies.

Apologies accepted.

I started reading the X-Men during the reprint period of the early '70s. I bought my first issue not because of the X-Men themselves, but because it featured a one-shot villain named Mechano. (I was into villains at the time.) I followed the title for a short time then stopped. As with Cobie, the Silver Age X-Men didn't really grab me, even though I liked the characters -- especially Cyclops, whose power and handicap were unique. (One memory that stands out is of the X-Men leaping out of plane in their civilian identities for some reason. Cyclops's ruby quartz glasses get blown off by the wind and he has to shield his eyes with his hand. As such, he narrowly misses being impaled upside down by a cliff, until Hank catches up to him and tells him to open his eyes!)

When next I read the X-Men, it was # 95 -- the third appearance of the "all-new, all-different" team. Curiously, that issue also opened with the team falling out of an air vessel (though they were in their costumes this time). And my, how the team had changed! Only Cyclops was recognizable. The others (Storm, Nightcrawler, Banshee, Colossus, Wolverine, and Thunderbird) were diverse in appearance and personality. They also had accents. (I was also discovering Star Trek and loved the idea of characters from different nationalities working together.) They fought interesting villains (Dragon Fly, I think, was one) and then -- at the end -- Thunderbird died. This was far more dramatic and unpredictable than the earlier version had been.

From that point until the death of Phoenix in # 137, X-MEN could do no wrong. It was unquestionably the best-written and -drawn comic I was reading at the time. Every issue promised a new adventure and much more. There was a time when I truly believed that X-MEN was great literature. (Of course, I wasn't reading anything other than comics at the time )

The death of Phoenix was so unexpected, yet so thoroughly logical and poignant that it left a high-water mark that the title never reached again, in my opinion. (Ironic aside: For some reason, my local comics distributor failed to carry # 137. I found out about the death only when # 138 came out!) The next 15 issues more or less marked time, then the great slide began.

Beginning with # 152, the plotlines and the art became darker and convoluted. X-MEN had proven so popular that it was also becoming a franchise -- NEW MUTANTS started around that time, as did a flood of mini-series (starting with WOLVERINE and MAGIK). I think the whole X-perience became diluted. (Another ironic aside: When the new X-Men were launched, the title was published bi-monthly; fans complained that there wasn't enough X-Men. But, a few years later, there was too much, and most of it wasn't very good.)

After the resurrection of Jean Grey in 1984, I pretty much lost faith in Marvel and, particularly, the X-Men. That alone would not have caused me to drop the title, however; I held on until 1985, by which time it was clear that the magic of the early days had descended into a murky and cynical mess. That last regular issue I bought was # 191 -- in the midst of a storyline in which alternate versions of Marvel heroes were being butchered (as I recall; I don't care to research this for verification). I did, however, pick up the anniversary issues, # 193 and 200, though nothing in either convinced me to change my mind.

I have read only a smattering of issues since then. Some have been good, others not. (I did enjoy the first few issues of the new X-FACTOR, which a friend loaned me.) I also enjoyed the '90s cartoon for awhile (though I got tired of seeing the same characters all the time; occasional change was part of what made the X-Men special to me.) I've also loved all three movies because they remain true to the spirit of the original stories while freshly reinterpreting details and characters.

Unlike the Legion and the Avengers, the X-Men never held a really strong, personal connection for me (though I did have favorite characters, such as Cyke and Nightcrawler), so I've never been tempted to go back to the title. However, the X-Men's message of fear and tolerance is one that every generation of comics fans should read, so I'm glad they remain as popular as they are.

As with most of the Marvel Universe, my 1st exposure to the X-MEN were in the very 1st Marvel comic I ever owned-- FF ANNUAL #3!. They're among the multitudes of heroes (and villains) who turn up at Reed & Sue's wedding. While Professor X sits in his wheelchair trying to look like an innocent bystander, these 5 teens in (mostly) matching outfits storm in and take on The Mole Man and a horde of his Subterraneans. After, they show up here and there thru the rest of the story, including a bit where Angel takes on The Black Knight (a winged guy fighting a villain on a winged horse!) until he's hit in the back by a blast from one of The Mandarin's rings. A swarm of B-list villains dog-pile on him, until Cyclops blasts the whole line-up. But when the smoke clears, a huge free-for-all has erupted! It's nuts! (ONLY Jack Kirby could have pulled off something like that so successfully.)

My 1st X-MEN comic was ANNUAL #1, which reprinted the 2-part Count Nefaria story. In retrospect, this wasn't that great, but at the time it grabbed me for the novelty of learning so much about this team, and seeing a whole squad of B-list (C-list?) villains recruited from other heroes' books (none of whose earlier appearances I'd read at the time).

I saw the team guest-star in various places, new & reprint, including the FF/Thinker & Pupper Master story, and the Secret Empire story in CAPTAIN AMERICA. I picked up GIANT-SIZE X-MEN #1 when it came out-- mainly for the art of Dave Cockrum, whose art had blown me away on THE AVENGERS. At the time, I really wished he'd stuck with AVENGERS. I liked those characters better, and the writing on the new book tended to be way too "intense" for my tastes. It was like seeing a super-hero version of SPACE:1999-- every single character seemed miserable all the time, and all of them seemed to be on the verge of a nervous breakdown ALL the time. There was NOTHING "comic" about this "comic-book"!! The story where Havok was brainwashed into almost killing Cyclops, by some villain called Eric The Red (ALL of which was left unexplained for MANY months!!) almost made me give up. Only Dave's art kept me buying.

ANNUAL #2 came out about this time, and was my introduction to the Roy Thomas-Neal Adams run, as it reprinted their 3-part Sentinels story. MAN! This thing was, if anything, even MORE intense and manic than the current stuff! What WAS it with this X-book??? Modern, younger fans may have a hard time understanding what I'm talking about, because the 90's made the 70's seem like the 50's by comparison. (heh)

The Sentiels reprint coincided with the NEW Sentinels story (Marvel seemed to do a LOT of that over the years-- rematches that somehow kept coinciding with reprints of earlier appearances of the same characters). The opening "Christmas" sequence was the 1st time in the entire revival series where the heroes were shown relaxing on a day off-- which I really enjoyed. And of course, it didn't last beyond the first couple pages. The motivations behind the villain this time made NO sense to me at all-- and the story reached such a level of manic intensity before it was over, I always felt it should have been the "FINAL" Sentinels story-- ever. What have there been-- several HUNDRED sequels since??? Oy.

The next few issues surprised me as we finally got to see some nice character development and bits of humor, which, I'm guessing, were all the work of Dave Cockrum. I met both Chris & Dave around this time, and they were 2 very different personalities. Dave's simply one of the nicest, friendliest guys who ever worked in the biz. Chris is a very well-spoken, intelligent, and also friendly guy-- but he has a "serious" streak that just won't quit, tended (back then) to be rather cynical, and apparently loved putting all the characters he wrote through unbelieveable HELL every time out of the slot! I think it says a lot about him that he's one of those people who prefers the term "SF" to "sci-fi" (to the point of belittling it by calling it "skiffy"). He really needed to LIGHTEN UP!!! But the book was so successful, he never had to.

I was very disappointed when Dave was replaced by John Byrne-- ESPECIALLY when Byrne took over ONE issue before the end of a storyline that had been building for at least 2 YEARS. I mean, really! If Byrne had come onboard one issue later, if would have had a perfect "changing of the guard" sort of thing for a new era. As it was, it just felt wrong from the get-go-- like having a different director take over the last 20 minutes of a movie.

Chris's intensity continued unabated... but Byrne's "cartoony" style (balanced by Terry Austin's "technical" inks) somehow managed to lighten the book-- a bit-- more than Dave had managed before. (It's ironic-- Dave's a much more easy-going guy, but his art was always more "intense" and "serrious"-looking than Byrne's.) Under Claremont, Byrne & Austin, X-MEN was rarely ever really "fun", but at least it was extrememly well-done, and often awe-inspiring.

I still remember when Dave announced (at a store appearance) that he was coming back to the book. When asked how he was gonna deal with a monthly deadline when a bi-monthly one had been beyond him before, he replied, "I didn't have a mortgage then." His return debut was the 3-part Dr. Doom/Arcade story, which (I believe) was Doom's 1st appearance following his return to sanity (or whatever) in the back of an FF ANNUAL (following an extended period where Marv Wolfman had zapped Doom's brain into a coma or something). It what became all too typical, John Byrne later refuted Chris & Dave's story, claiming the whole thing had featured a Doom ROBOT, because the "real" Doom wouldn't have allowed certain things to happen the way Chris & Dave showed them. (Byrne has done a LOT of this nonsense since-- it's gotten to the point where he seems incapable of doing ANY new comics without contradicting other writers' work!!)

I enjoyed Dave's 2nd stint, at first-- though when they brought in the under-dwellers (whatever they were called) with Caliban & company, they started to lose me. The Brood story showcased Chris at his most hellish. Not only was he putting his characters thru HELL-- again-- for most of the long storyline, it looked like ALL of them were gonna DIE, no matter what they did! Geez. And then history repeated itself, as for the 2nd time, in the middle of an outer-space epic, Dave was replaced IN MID-STORY!!! It was a bit of a shock, as I'd heard Paul Smith was planning to do a run on DR. STRANGE. He did, eventually... but in the meantime, X-MEN allowed him to make MORE money faster. (How mercenary of him!)

I have to admit-- I kinda liked Smith's work. While the X-MEN were out in space, THE NEW MUTANTS debuted. Was this really called for? Prof. X was so convinced his team was dead and never coming back, he started a new team. When they came back... surprise! The new team, especially the early issues, was almost a flashback to the 60's, except mixed with Chris' usual over-intensity. (Meaning, Thomas & Roth's run was a LOT more fun to read!) Around this time, the WOLVERINE mini-series materialized. This was another thing Chris started doing far too much of-- long storylines, published simultaneously, where you're either trying to figure out where does this story fit with the other one, or you're given details about events before (or after) it makes sense to. At any rate, eventually the events of the mini dovetailed into the main book. And then, Chris REALLY pissed me off. After the HELL he put Logan thru in Japan-- and leading up to the story of his marriage to Mariko-- at the LAST minute, she leaves him at the altar, with NO expalantion, the victim of another senseless mind-control, and it was all just left hanging for months (or years) after.

And then Smith left, J.R. Jr. took over, and it quickly became clear that on IRON MAN, J.R. had been doing layouts. Without Bob Layton on "finishes", J.R.'s stuff looked HORRIBLE to my eyes. Between Chris's escalating complications and sense of gloom, and the art, the book became UNBEARABLE for me. I kept buying much longer than I should have. If the book had gone that bad that quickly these days, I might have dropped it within a few months, and NEVER looked back. As it is, it took maybe 2 years before I finally untangled myself from Chris's growing MESS. I've often heard stories of how fans gave up on the X-books and how they got so mind-wrenchingly bad. And I always think, yeah, but I dropped them at least 5 YEARS before most people thought they got bad! Which only makes me more glad I did.

"[...]or you're given details about events before (or after) it makes sense to."

That used to really p/$$ me off. The death (or alleged death) of Xi'an Coy Manh (Karma) of the New Mutants was mentioned in another book before that issue of NM had even been published! Kinda made the story anti-climactic.

Yes, if you're going to have that kind of "tight" continuity, mentioning very "current" events in books other than where they happen, you better make DAMN sure they at least come out in the right order!

DC's "direct/newsstand" experiment pissed me off for similar reasons. For an entire year, there were 2 issues of OUTSIDERS and TITANS each month-- but they were a full year out of synch with each other! (Come to think of it... they just pulled a stupid stunt like that this year, didn't they! "52".) LEGION had the decency to have its 2 issues running concurrently, and feature different storylines, with different characters, that took place more-or-less at the same time. If you only had access to the newsstand issues, you had to wait a year until the "direct" issues would be reprinted. I don't believe there were any major spoilers if you read it that way... (if not, pretty remarkable) The problem, of course, is that from that point on, the newsstand-only readers would ALWAYS be a year behind "direct" market customers in their reading!

In the long run, newsstand sales continued to plummet, and Marvel & DC pretty much TOOK OVER the direct market from the smaller companies who'd helped create it, putting said companies out of business as time went on.


Back on topic... I recall when Chris Claremont (HIM again!!!) did a long (8-part?) story in IRON FIST where Colleen Wing was kidnapped. There was an appearance of Iron Fist in DEADLY HANDS OF KUNG FU which, according to the narration, took place while she was missing-- but the story was published 6 months or so after she was rescued. There was NO reason for such a "crossover" reference. I complained about it, and the editor replied on the letters pages that "not all our stories are necessarily published in the order they occur." (or words to that effect)

You know, "messed up" continuity could make for its own thread!

I bought two comics in the early 80's at a 7-Eleven on a road trip--the first Alpha Flight and a Marvel Universe guide that included Phoenix. I was completely drawn in by the completely f-ed up continuity, Phoenix I's tragic death, the alt-universe of Phoenix II (still ongoing through the Beyonder stuff)...so when I really started reading comics my senior year of high school, I picked up Uncanny, Excalibur, and X-Factor right out of the gate. I happened to start right around Inferno--Claremont and Louise Simonson writing, Walt Simonson and Marc Silvestri on pencils. The Goblin Queen, Captain Britain, Apocalypse, the return of Archangel, Hank transformed, tragic love, babies--still one of my favorite crossovers ever. I later went in to fill in the X-Terminators and New Mutants parts of the story.

For the next several years, I was in comic heaven--Shadow King, Gambit, Forge, Genosha, etc. Little did I know how far it would fall soon after the debut of the new X-Men, X-Force (although I did enjoy that title AFTER Liefield left) etc. If the 90's were not the worst period in comic history, I don't know what was.

I did get to go back and back issue-bin buy the whole run of Classic X-Men to fill in all issues of one of the greatest runs in comics history--Claremont's run on X-Men from the mid 70's through the early 90's. I know the last few runs have been somewhat disappointing (a la Levitz's return to writing JSA), but that run was pure genius.

Still keep:
Uncanny from Classic X-Men 1 (hey, I'm not made of money, pal) through the debut of the "new" team saga around 2000, a smattering of issues since then--I quit Uncanny after X-Men. Excalibur I quit after the Pete Wisdom era, X-Factor the minute David quit, X-Force when cancelled.

Currently collecting: Astonishing (although it has been total crap on this second round), X-Factor as long as David writes. Say what you want about DC (and Lord knows I've said plenty), they've avoided (for the most part) the kind of bloated, multititle, multitimelines, multiwriter crap that has happened to the mutantverse. I have no interest in what's going on there now, and get a little irritated when those events overflow into X-Factor.

Don't hate me, Legion World-- the Uncanny X-men were my first love, the first title I Capital "C" Collected. Although I have evidence to the contrary-- well-read copies of "All-New, All-Different" #99,101 and 106 mixed in with the Caspers and Richie Riches of my childhood-- my love affair with the X began with UNCANNY #133. It was years before I got Wolverine's riff off of Dirty Harry, facing the last Hellfire Club agent.

At the time, Amazing Adventures v.2 was reprinting the early X-men stories. My first issue of AA was part one of the reprint for #3, the first appearance of the Blob. I don't recall being confused by the simultaneous, unrelated stories... nor by finding UNCANNY #132 on the spinner rack -after- 133.

Being at the mercy of the comics vendor and my Mom's control of my comics buying, I didn't see another issue until I found #137 while on vacation that summer in Sangerville, ME. The Death of Phoenix had me hooked. Cyclops' flashbacks of the team's past in #138 at Jean's funeral helped me make the connection between UNCANNY and the AA reprints. #139 was my intro to Alpha Flight and Kitty Pryde.

After getting back home and missing issue 140, I talked Mom into letting me cut out one of those subscription coupons; my subscription ran from 143 to 166, by which time I'd discovered my first comic shop. I then acquired early X-Men back-issues, including the first Juggernaut and Sentinel stories.

I'd had subscriptions off and on to other titles, DEFENDERS being another of my favorites. So I was happy when Beast, Angel and Iceman became the nucleus for a new team lineup! I almost missed out, though... Mom had taken my DEFENDERS away from me earlier, when I started having nightmares during the "Six-Fingered Hand" storyline. :rolleyes: The eventual demise and cancellation of DEFENDERS led right into the team I knew from the reprints, including "Pheonix died, not" Jean, as X-Factor.

UNCANNY remained my favorite for years, and I bought almost everything X-related... New Mutants/X-Force (All five polybagged issues! :rolleyes: ) "just" X-MEN, you name it. It wasn't until around issue #300 I realized I was buying the comic out of habit. After a few more years of flirting with dropping it-- I skipped most of the "Revolution" storylines in the X-Books-- I finally quit cold turkey with the death of Colossus... Uncanny #390, I think.

Ironic then, that his return in Astonishing marked my return to buying a regular X-title. That and PAD's X-Factor are my only ongoing X-bboks now.

whew.

Bumping this thread for those who missed it the first time around, and for X-Men fans who've joined Legion World over the past couple years.

An update to my roadmap: I'm currently without any X-Books on my pull list; Axel Alonso is possibly the worst X-Books Group Editor that the X-Books have ever had; I even dropped X-Factor (!) even though Peter David was still writing it, although it did return to form a couple months ago...but whether or not that issue was a fluke will take a few more months to be revealed.