Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities FINAL CRISIS (Official Thread)

I liked both Submit and Resist (though I liked Submit better). I'm still not sold on Mr. Terrific's Checkmate involvement, but it wasn't too bad (obligatory Rucka "matureness" aside). Both stories flesh out the Post-Anti-Life world rather well.

Why do I feel that "Submit" and "Resist" are the ONLY stories we're going to see about the "Post-Anti-Life-Equation" world despite how "important" this is all supposed to be?

Can we say, "a whole crap-load of sound and fury signifying NOTHING?!?!?!?!"

Dan Didio derails FINAL CRISIS plans--editorial interference!!

Per Rich Johnson:
IT'S ARMAGEDDON 2001 ALL OVER AGAIN
A familiar source known collectively as "New York comics industry employees talking in bars" tells me that the last issue of "Final Crisis" is further delayed as it is suffering from serious rewrites. It appears that DC Executive Editor Dan DiDio was unhappy with the way the story concluded and the implications for the DC Universe for a while and had ordered changes from a, naturally, rather unhappy Grant Morrison. Considering this is the way he wrote the pitch for the book.

As a result, creative teams working on a number of spinoff and affected books have also had to stop work while the “Final Crisis” ending is reworked.

Expect more lateness, more annoyance and less likelihood of Grant Morrison doing DCU work in the near future.

Batman #682 Spoilers

FINAL CRISIS TIE-IN

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We find out that they are trying to download Batman's badass psyche and fighting skills into the Lump and a whole bunch of Apokoliptian soldiers created by Mister Symian and Mister Mokkari.

Notice the Great Darkness reference in #5? "Six billion eyes!" Heh.

Okay, so is the guy on the last page supposed to be the new metron, or the new highfather? Somewhere highfather will return. As light must always have dark, dark must always have light. Each is meaningless without the other for contrast.

Which kinda makes Darkside pointless if you think about it.

"I, Darkside, have taken over the world, the universe. All is me, and I am all. The world is me, six billon eyes my flesh...oops, gotta go. Which slave is gonna wipe by butt....dammit, they are all me. I gotta do everything around here!"

Humor aside, if Darkside is everything, then, he becomes good. Think about it, he is "evil", but he is everything. So, evil becomes the norm. Being "good" by our moral standards would be evil in a universe that is Darkside. Therefore, he would no longer be the God of Evil. He would, in fact, become the God of Right. Therefore, his purpose would be moot.

Never really got that about world conquerers. Okay, you've conquered the world. Now what? What new goals are there to pursue other than the constant wary and watchfullness that would be required to prevent assinnation. This would eventually lead to stiltifying paralysis. And in this paralysis, a new order would arise that, in the Darkside case, would be considered evil.

What's the point?

Does anyone else think that those sketches of Doc Fate might have something to do with Superman Beyond #2, or is that a red herring?

Pretty sure Metron is still Metron, sitting there hax0ring Rubik's cubes into Mother Boxes.

Nix Uotan is just the new Monitor, I think, hence why his head is surrounded by *cough* monitor screens. He's the first of the race of Monitors to embrace the power of narrative instead of trying to resist it.

Ergh. Like i say, FC has been okay, but between the delays and the RIP stuff, Grant seems off his game lately, to me anyway.

I'm pretty sure the delays are because of Darkseid cracking time and space around Earth with his fall, like they mentioned in #5. Everything's been so screwy with the shipping, that's probably it. Well, I'll just be happy when Legion of 3 Worlds #1 comes out.

Final Crisis Secret Files: Sketches

We see...

Mary Marvel, the Justifiers, Captain Adam the Quantum Superman, the Wonder Wagon, Doc Fate, Overman, Overgirl, Mandrakk, Superdemon, Weeja Dell, and Aquaman.

Overman is Karl Kant, who landed in Czechoslovakia in 1938. He turned the tide against the US in the 50s. His Justice League is comprised of Leatherwing, Brunhilde, and Underwater Man, and they fight Uncle Sam and His Freedom Fighters.

Overgirl is not Overman's ACTUAL cousin. She's the only child who survived the experiments the Nazis performed on children using his DNA. Besides some horrible aberration called the Antihuman. It's not surprising that the Nazis would name something the Antihuman and call their Aquaman UNDERWATER MAN, considering their leader was an art school reject.

Mandrakk and Dax Novu are the same person.

Weeja Dell is the Monitor of Earth-6.

Superdemon is the demon Etrigan, sent to Earth from the doomed planet Kamelot, and merged with Jason Blood, the son of a Midwestern preacher. He lives on an Earth described as a "spooky Halloween world where magic and science co-exist".

So wouldn't the Japanese/asian crew be the Forever People? Sammy Sumo as big bear, etc?

Sorry, i'm not what i would call a stupid person, i get most things with a little explaination, but this work is leaving me cold....and i don't like to say that about Morrison's stuff.

Just saw where there was a Danny the Street DP issue that he wrote but was never published. Maybe i'll get lucky with that being published.

BTW, I did a Secret Files one-shot about Overgirl if anyone's interested, since this is a Final Crisis thread.

And did you mean that Street Lantern story. Yeah, I REALLY wish they'd publish that.

I think Grant has said that the Super Young Team is a stand-in for both the Forever People and the Newsboy Legion (remember the Whiz Wagon?). Sonny Sumo, though, would be himself, as he teamed up with the Forever People early on in their series (and could actually use Anti-Life).

Thanks, Rouge. I didn't know that about them or Sonny. Learn something new every day.

Does anyone else feel like this is just an extended ELSEWORLDS story?

The DCU's really gonna be reconfigured by this?

It seems so... removed. Distant. Cold.

I thought SECRET INVASION was drawn out...

Hopefully, some good stories will come of it.

I think the problem is the way this has been structured. Everything I'm reading seems to point to "Superman: Beyond" being essential to the whole story, both in terms of explaining what's really going on, and introducing the main villain behind everything (who isn't Darkseid, BTW). I just think when Superman and the other voyagers return in FC #7 and there's this huge conflict with Mandrakk displacing the Darkseid plot, alot of people are going to be incredibly confused.

They should have made this 9 or 10 issues and rolled the "Superman: Beyond" stuff into the main stories (keeping the separate artist for the Superman portions).

Just read it. We do indeed get the "final" fate of batman this issue.

I wont spoil it other than to say "redux".

Things are tying together, but a bit of it seems to be a rehash, with familiar scenes redone with different characters tied to the first crisis.

Better, but the book still isn't delivering on the "big new earth" thing.

So.... that's what happens to Batman hm? How is that supposed to tie into R.I.P. timing-wise?

This has been happening a lot lately in terms of how plots are written these days, but it only feels like we should be two-thirds through the story rather than almost at the end.

With the "BIG" events happening in this series (Barry Allen, Martian Manhunter, Batman) all those scenes just seem like plotpoints being checked off, lacking real characerization.

This happens Post "RIP" and at the same time as "Last Rites".

- Batman and Hurt go down in the Helicopter Crash (RIP)
- Batman makes his way back to the Batcave (Last Rites)
- Before he really even gets settled he's called in by the JLA to help investigate Orion's murder (Last Rites)
- While investigating the murder he's captured by Granny Goodness (Final Crisis)
- Simyan and Mokkari use the Lump to try and break Batman and clone him for an army of Super Soldiers (Last Rites)
- Batman, defeats the Lump, frees himself and drives all the potential clones insane (Last Rites & Final Crisis)
- Batman Confronts Darkseid with the same God-Bullet he used to kill Orion. They both appear to kill each other (Final Crisis).

I have to say I'm glad I decided to sit this one out (in protest of turning Mary evil, at least she was only possessed but I still don't see the POINT of that entire ordeal)

It just sounds like a series that would have driven me insane, I have a personal pet peeve with comics that are put out monthly but only really work as a whole, if you're putting it out in a serialized format than each section of the serial needs to be strong.

Plus (and of course I'm not reading the book, just summaries, spoilers, and occasional flip through at stores) I don't think any of the "impact events" are working for me, cause I'm still not certain what the stories about.

Well, I could fill a page with the "What it's about" part, but in terms of "event as a whole" writing, this is Grant Morrison we're talking about. I can't think of anything he's written that's not meant to be taken as a whole to get full effect, even before the era of "write to the collection" he was doing complex, interconnected works. I recognise he's a very polarising writer (I personally dig his stuff), but DC should also have known that before they put him on point for this.

I think the RIP storyline is the issue. It was a fine story, but by billing it as a huge event, giving it the RIP title, it's been blown out of proportion. It's not the death of Batman story, it's the lead up to it. Granted, if you don't read FC, you need to think of RIP as the death of Bats.

Now the thunder has been stolen from FC, both in the delay and the marketing of RIP. The two stories are related, but not necessary reading for either one. Anyone reading RIP, skipping FC, and continuing the Batbooks would think Bats died in the RIP finale, like everyone else in the Batbooks (Alfred excepted.) Anyone reading FC and not reading RIP wouldn't be missing anything since the death is in FC.

If FC and RIP had run simultaneously as planned, I don't think there would be as much confusion. Such is the issue with scheduling snafus...

Nice to have that confirmed

I LOVED every single issue of Seven Soldiers (except for the mondo-disappointing last one.)

I LOVED every single issue of Batman: RIP and most of Morrison's issues leading up to and after it too.

I LIKED the first two or so issues of Final Crisis.

I DISLIKED the next few.

And I've HATED the last couple.

With one issue to go, I'll hold off on giving a final analysis of the book - but six of seven issues in I think it's a huge disappointment.`