Legion World Forums LEGION OUTPOST Mission Monitor Board Every 10 Years Forum LMB Constitutional Convention

Technically, Quis holds the office of Chief Justice of the LW Supreme Court and as such is in that position for life. Perhaps the above should be renamed the LW/LMBP Supreme Court in order to incorporate the pre-existing postion into the recommended structure.

I don't see anyone being excluded for holding any other post, but if they were involved in any way with a case the LMB-Avengers were hearing, perhaps they should recuse themselves.

Remember, I see this as being a super-team just as much as I see it being a high court. I'm really looking forward to finding out but combinations of powers and such that will arise!!!

When did we ever have a Supreme Court?

During the Dark STU incident

Well, Quis could moderate and cast the tiebreaking vote (sort of like the Vice-President.) Technically, the LW Supreme Court would exist outside LMB jurisdiction, but I don't see why it couldn't be folded in in some way.

Cobie, as per Quis's involvement, as far as I'm concerned, he has certainly earned the right to write his own ticket. I would be happy to support his involvement in whatever manner he wishes to serve, up to and including LMB-Avengers/Supreme Court Leader-for-life! Without a doubt, I do think he should be one of the initial seven active members, though (unless he would prefer a position outside the structure I'm proposing, such as Official LMB Defense Counsel or some such.)

It really just depends on what he wants, as far as I'm concerned. Keeping in mind, of course, that everyone should have a chance to weigh in as well.

(Also, I really would love it if someone were to come up with a name better than LMB-Avengers. Something else else more... us.)

I think it's a good idea, and would be proud to Assemble

I think it's a bad idea. It's the kind of thing that leads to clicks. And I don't think it's fair to expexct new posters to learn all these rules before they can take part in the role playing. Simpler is better.

I was being facetious before, o'course, but I now have to wonder about it more pointedly: Something else else like this may well end up beating a piece of whimsy like the LMBP into the ground, whence it may never rise again.

Especially with what Arachne notes immediately above, installing an "Avengers" super-clique, and imposing so many rules on roleplaying newcomers.

Can't we have something like the LMBP be free from even a pseudo-politics, at least? Kept up in fictional and non-fictional chronicles? Isn't that really enough?

Don't we get enough of this kind of gyrating, about endless constitution-making along with everything else, on the nightly TV news?

I'm sorry about erupting like this, but it's just starting to be too much structure -- with things like a fictional "oath of allegiance" -- imposed on something that was supposed to remain fun.

Or it's seeing this alongside the futility of the constitutional enterprise "we" are imposing, at occupation gunpoint, in Iraq that's getting to me. Or, probably, both.

Arachne and Greybird both have points.

Therefore, I second my own motion to start the entire Constitutional process over from the beginning.

I will grant you that there is a legitimate point on the second concern. Giving a fictional universe rules, histories, and political systems DOES make newbies have to work a bit harder. Just like, I don't know, the X-Men and the Legion of Super-Heroes. Like when I realized Mystique and Rogue were "related." That was a fun day of discovery for me. Maybe simpler IS better, but I'd like to hear proof of exactly why. Given that the reason we are all here is to share in the experience of the comic book that is widely regarded as the most complex and byzantine on the market, of course.

I have much more to say about the role of cliques in the LMB (one quick newsflash: they already exist.) and the act of creation of political systems as regards fictional worlds, but those points are going to take more time to compose than I have at the moment.

Duke, I don't think this would be a good idea, because the main thing that's been decided is the election process and a few of us put in a tremendous amount of effort to do that. I don't really want to see that all wasted. Even though this thread is at page fifty, there's been very little that's been decided at all, so starting over would be a bad idea.

Everyone's opinions are welcome. At this point, all we've discussed is the LMB leader really, and we've come far with that--I don't want to see that changed.

And the Security Office bit is finished too--it's really 'my' thing that I do here, and is by no means an official function or anything. It's a thread I play in and all are welcome, so just stop on by! It exists mainly for story purposes and a backround for ongoing jokes.

[Greybird]
{{ Something else else like this may well end up beating a piece of whimsy like the LMBP into the ground, whence it may never rise again. }}

[Kid Prime]
{ How? Seriously. I would truly like to hear something more concrete than that. That was a very blanket statement. }

A simple dichotomy. If you don't intend the structures you're setting up to be taken "seriously," more or less -- that is, expecting that visitors to this Website (or just the MMB?) will abide by all these rules -- why are you bothering with such an elaborate "convention"? It becomes fan fiction that belongs over in Bits.

And if you intend for these to be taken seriously, how would you "enforce" them? Such as an "oath of allegiance," a preposterous thing in itself at a place like this?

And aren't you aware that this is going to drive people away from this message board entirely? Starting with me, for that matter?

{ Giving a fictional universe rules, histories, and political systems DOES make newbies have to work a bit harder. }

It's not our place to do so. Gary's rules are enough. Unless you want a SEPARATE area of LW.net for roleplaying, where ONLY those abiding by these detailed rules are going to be allowed to post.

I grant you that this has been discussed in ... well, another place. Perhaps it's time, with a stickied thread and so much attention being paid to this "constitution," that it be discussed here.

{ I have much more to say about the role of cliques in the LMB (one quick newsflash: they already exist) [...]}

No kidding. So why reinforce them with something like this constitution project?

Or do you want to encourage them, instead? And do you want to exclude LW.net newcomers who don't know all of the LMB arcana? Or LW.net veterans who don't want to have to bother, after a hard day's work, to digest yet another treatise in order to take part in this community?

[Cobalt Kid]
{ And the Security Office bit is finished too -- it's really 'my' thing that I do here, and is by no means an official function or anything. It's a thread I play in and all are welcome, so just stop on by! It exists mainly for story purposes and a background for ongoing jokes. }

Cobes, please read your PM from me. As soon as possible.

Yeah KP, cliques exsist, but nobody's ever tried to limit the number of members before. Who gets left out when eight members want to join in?

The delegate from the Penguin Colonies is seriously confused. Is this all in-continuity only?

Copied from the previous page:

1. Firstly, every member of the LMB is an LMB-Avenger. You join one, you join the other. There is no distinction. That way, there is no one who is in any way more privileged than anyone else.

I really don't know what else to say. Except that I apologize if anyone felt like what I was going for was some sort of elitism, because that really wasn't the case. I just wanted to create another toy for folks around here to play with. But my bad, I guess.

Rocky, I'm also very confused, except that I think that we have a serious blurring of the lines here between fantasy and reality.

7 is not everyone.

Grey, I am sorry but I'm not going to answer questions that are only meant to provoke.

I just want to see something through to the end for a change. But hey, if this is a problem, I'll hang it up. I just want folks to have fun.

Okay.

I'm honestly very surprised and more than a little bewildered by this reaction, but I'll gladly take the whole thing off the table if that's what it takes. It's certainly not my intent to cause anyone distress.

KP, you wrote: "Grey, I am sorry but I'm not going to answer questions that are only meant to provoke."

I paid you the respect of taking you seriously, as you requested. Please show the same courtesy to me, by at least not assuming outright that I'm asking solely (or at all!) "to provoke." In fact, I was not. To wit:

[Greybird]
{ And aren't you aware that this is going to drive people away from this message board entirely? Starting with me, for that matter? }

I asked this with an entirely rational concern. You want a yet more concrete example?

I've been trying to encourage a close Net associate in other fandom realms to take active part here. He's an extremely intelligent man who enjoys role-playing, including many Legion PBEMs over the last 15 years. Yet he is feeling skittish about taking on the entire, growing LMBP apparatus. He doesn't have the time or inclination to unravel what is getting to appear to be a high "barrier to entry."

As for me, I can't be the only one getting increasingly weary of seeing this particular thread.

The LMBP has been extended in many fascinating and fun ways, from artworks (micro and macro) to detailed fiction to intricate roleplaying. I've been delighted to see this, for five years now.

Yet the extensions started to get out of hand, frankly, to me, when Cobes devoted so much time to a dual-track chronicle of the LMBP. I found it entertaining, but nonetheless regretted (until now, only privately) that he was putting so much more effort into it than into his talents at fiction writing.

I hoped, when a truly over-baroque flowering of this impulse into a "constitution" came up last August, that it would burn itself out. It seemed to, twice. It's been revived, and it bothered me to see that.

And it was never clear in its aims. Rules and scope for a leader election? Fine, that's a few hundred words. But anthems for the LMBP, "oaths of allegiance," and a "security" dictator-for-life, fictional or not?

Where are those to take effect, even if they didn't have overtones of the real-world, nasty State that a lot of us would like to forget while we are here?

[Greybird]
{ Or do you want to encourage [cliques] instead? And do you want to exclude LW.net newcomers who don't know all of the LMB arcana? }

Well, do you? In roleplaying? In an "Avengers" supreme court? In taking alternate identities? In writing fictional histories? Where? I can't tell. You're blurring the lines here, in more than one way.

Also, with a Founder-level (though not Founder-with-FTP level) member involved, the lines are further blurred. Are these "constitutional" provisions to govern conduct in this entire Website, for LMBP members? Are they going to be enforced for daily behavior? Or only for those taking an LMBP moniker? What's the scope of their "official" import ... if any?

I hope you see what I mean. You're not setting out the boundaries of this. If you're not intending to make LW.net member behavior be judged by it, this "constitution" is merely some tag-team fan fiction. If you do intend it to be a standard of judgment, you don't say how far it extends.

In short, I'm quite serious. Even "just wanting folks to have fun" does have consequences, if it's too baroquely overdetailed. Usually they'll be unseen. New members will be reluctant to get over the barriers to take part. Old members will fade away from weariness. And few of either group (unlike wordy asses like me) are likely to ever say they're doing so and why.

Ohmygod, since I'm like grounded I like have lots of time to read stuff like this. I just have one question and then I'll go back to my room.

Ummm... Aren't you guys taking this just a little too like seriously? I mean this is a comic book fan message board and we all like, like enjoy fooling around and junk but come on...

If you guys adopt all these rules and stuff, I'll just have to see how many of them I can break on a regular like basis, cuz thats one of the rules in the "Everyday Girl's Guide to Annoying Adults Handbook" and then I'll like wind up being Grounded for LIFE! or until I'm 25 which might be worser.

Please stop this and like give me a break! :cute smile:

I'm sorry if I came off too strong there. I'm not upset, but I feel that setting any limit like that is going to lead to misunderstandings and flame wars.

As for all these rules, I'm not going to lie and say I think this is a good idea. I suspect that it'll isolate the rollplayers from the rest of the board, but I don't see it causing any trouble that the rest of can't ignore.

I've not really been following this thread since it mostly was put together during my latest period of reduced activity, but it seems to me that seeing too many ill omens in it is selling both the existing members and potential new members pretty short. If anything, I'd say any new poster that makes it as far as to look into this stuff is motivated enough to join in. I'd hazard a guess that most of the people that find their way here are interested in discussing the Legion comics first and foremost. If this LMBP stuff is puzzling or even off-putting, they'll likely just ignore it or get curious enough to dip a toe in. Heck, it took me years to get much fun out of this aspect of the board, but I wasn't especially resentful of those that did.

I don't think there's any harm in this espcially. I don't think anyone is going to have to worry about getting a midnight knock on the door for not knowing the words to the Legionworld anthem by heart. Frankly, this stuff only has as much influence on people as they let it. I was puttering along happily with no idea what was in this thread. If I never flit back through, I'll be just as happy. I assume if I don't take the LMBP oath of loyalty I won't be shown the door back to the DCMB's.