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#783685 - 08/17/13 08:12 PM Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! (L*37, LSH 81, Showcase 96 #8)  
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Wouldn't you like to know?
At first I was hesitant to start this thread, seeing as how the Legion Archives reread is ongoing (and Conjure Lass and Georgehaze have their own recent threads too!)

But, I figure some of us are only familiar with the Postboot Legion and those contributing to the Archives thread can chime in here too. Plus, this thread is intended to go through the entire Postboot Legion in chronological publishing order (more or less).

Besides, the impending cancellation of the Legion AND all the good memories brought back by other threads have made me nostalgic!

Table of contents: (L* stands for Legionnaires)

LSH 0
Legionnaires 0
LSH 62
L* 19
LSH 63
L* 20
LSH 64
L* 21
LSH 65
L* 22
LSH 66
L* 23
LSH 67
L* 24
LSH 68
L* 25
LSH 69
LSH Annual 6
Showcase '95 #6, 1st Legion story
Showcase '95 #6, 2nd Legion story
Legionnaires 26
LSH 70
L* 27
LSH 71
L* 28
L* Annual 2
LSH 72
L* 29
LSH 73
L* 30
Superpboy 17 and 18
Superboy 19
Superboy 21
LSH 74
L* 31
LSH 75
L* 32
LSH 76
L* 33
Impulse 9
Flash v2 108 and 109, Impulse 10
Flash v2 110, Impulse 11, Flash v2 111
Impulse 12
LSH 77
L* Annual 3
L* 34
LSH 78
L* 35
LSH 79
L* 36
LSH 80
L* 37
LSH 81
Showcase '96 #8

Also, He Who Wanders' issue scores (up to L* Annual 2, and excluding the Showcase issues): scorecard

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 10/21/17 02:04 PM.
#783686 - 08/17/13 08:17 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Go for it, Ibby.

I'll contribute as I can.


Check out my new Power Club website!

The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
#783688 - 08/17/13 08:49 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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To repeat, anyone is welcome to post his or her own reviews!! Please, do so!

Legion of Super-Heroes 0
Time and Chance

Issue information

Summary:

It's the beginning of a new era/reality, and we get front row seats to the actual formation of the Legion. You know the drill: Rokk Krinn, Garth Ranzz and Imra Ardeen save the life of wealthy RJ Brande, who has the bright idea to form a team of heroes as a symbol of hope and unity. We glimpse a few more familiar faces (Luornu Durgo, Ayla and Mekt Ranzz). We also delve more into the private lives of our characters, and the issue hints that this Legion will be much more involved in politics than the Preboot version ever was. Are you ready to join the team on this ride?

Detailed Summary:

Issue begins with a flashback that any long-time Legion fan would find familiar. Garth, Ayla and Mekt Ranzz are on a joyride. Mekt plays it cool, Garth is way excited, and Ayla is "the responsible one". They are forced to make an emergency landing on Korbal. Garth tries to be helpful but annoys big brother Mekt; this early we see Mekt has anger management issues. Interestingly, Ayla is the one who suggests using the lightning beasts to recharge the ship's capacitor. Before they can act on it, lightning beats sneak up on all three...

and then Garth wakes up. Only a dream! He helpfully tells us it has been three years. He also tells us he ran away from home.

Cut to Braal. Rokk Krinn, nicknamed "Cosmic Boy", is being interviewed. (Glad the Cosmic Boy name came from his Magnoball career. As code names go, I always found it pretty bad - not descriptive of his powers at all, and Cos doesn't have the iconic hero status of Superman or Wonder Woman to excuse him... I'm looking at you also, Ultra Boy!) Ah, the 30th century press is so tabloid-like, as Cos gets grilled on his little brother and on magno-skater Sindy Paller. And someone asks him about his debt structure. Rokk's manager Mr. Cuspin cuts that question off! Rokk gets goaded by someone into demonstrating his skills, so he uses the metal on the guy's clothes to launch him into the air. Hah! As Rokk gets onto his flight, he sees that Titan is the next stop, and worries about Braal-Titan relations.

Easter egg time - we see a Sklarian, an alien from the Alien series, and someone who looks like late 5YL Brainiac 5 after Glorith aged him!

On to Titan, where Imra Ardeen, top Science Police cadet, is mentally probing three suspects over a theft. She says none of them is giving off any information about the stolen goods. A Science Police buddy and someone - I'll assume the proprietor? - give her a hard time. Imra then picks up thoughts from the proprietor about the black market. The proprietor tries to get away, only for Imra to show off her fighting skills and take her down. And apparently, this was Imra's final test; passing it means she gets to join the Science Police on Earth!

Back on the ship. Garth meets Rokk, and they hit it off (awww). Garth reveals he is looking for his brother. Their conversation is interrupted by RJ Brande's arrival. Brande is kind of like that cool but slightly loud uncle everyone has - he waves off any "special treatment", but does it loudly enough that most of the ship can here. He spends time talking to passengers too, asking them how they are. Nice guy. Rokk gets starstruck and talks about how Brande invented Stargates, which are interstellar teleportation devices. They jump quickly to Titan, where Imra gets on. Garth has lustful thoughts; as Imra passes by she gives him the evil eye and tells him not to think about it. Gee, is it just me or is she being nosy? I mean, it's not like Garth was making a scene. Garth has the grace to be embarrassed instead of blaming her. We also see the reappearance of the mandatory Saturn ID that marks telepaths, and we see people leaving their seats to get away from Imra. Hmmm. Well, I wouldn't be very comfortable either.

Then on Earth...

Well, we know the drill. Imra picks up thoughts of assassins sent to kill Brande. Her warning gives enough time for Garth and Rokk to act, saving Brande and catching the bad guys. Rokk and Garth impress each other (aww). Imra is whisked away by the Science Police; Garth disappears because he is technically a runaway. Brande's partner Doyle and Luornu appear, making long-time Legion fans wet themselves in excitement.

Fast forward to Brande meeting with United Planets president Chu. Chu tries to convince Brande to hand over the secrets of the Stargates, but Brande is shrewd enough not to let go of his moneymaker. Instead, he offers to finance a symbol of unity for the young United Planets - and we see he has been doodling the familiar Legion logo. Who knew Brande had an artistic side?

At SP HQ, Imra is being given menial tasks by Commander Hagbard. Another SP officer gossips to Shvaughn that Imra will never rise, because Hagbard hates Titanians. Shvaughn whispers back that they have to be careful, as Imra can read thoughts. Lournu - revealed to be Brande's personal assistant - approaches a disgruntled Imra with an offer...

Rokk is being given a hard time by his trainer/manager. Another, more flirtatious Luronu (must be Purple! Just like the SW6 version) approaches him with an offer.

Garth is in jail being bullied by a few goons. Apparently, Garth was making trouble at Black Mace's place (sadly, none of the goons look like other members of the Taurus Gang). Poor Garth gets a bucketful of what looks like urine (ewwww) in his face. Luornu picks him up just in time. She posts bail, so I have no idea what happened to Garth's charges or what he was charged with.

The three reunite in Brande's office. Cuspin leers at Imra; she responds by outing him to Rokk. Cuspin has been channeling Rokk's earnings to pay off Cuspin's gambling debts. Yikes! An angry Cuspin attacks Imra; Garth and Rokk stop him, and Rokk tells Cuspin they are through. Rokk is kind of grateful, but does tell Imra she seems nosy (yeah, just what I was thinking; glad the writers addressed it). Imra excuses herself by saying that strong or lewd thoughts are easily picked up by telepaths, and she only really delves deeper when that happens.

Brande makes his entrance by showing holos of Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman and Flash. Brande gives them the pep talk/sales pitch. Form a team of heroes that the galaxy can rally around; help others. Try it out, and see what happens. Maybe, just maybe, they are meant to make magic. Dang! It's quite a good talk if I say so myself. And all three agree.

Last page - shadowy figure says his assassins failed. He sends an underling to tell their masters. And appoints another underling to take underling 1's place, because the masters won't be forgiving. Cold. Aaaaaaand shadowy figure is Doyle... and he is still planning something!



Thoughts:

I can see why the Postboot might be a bit of a hard sell. After all, we're coming off the End of an Era, where we see our beloved Legionnaires fading into white. Like waking from a blissful dream...

Garth Ranzz's dream is anything bit blissful. He flashbacks to when he and his siblings were on Korbal. This time, all three of them were there - Garth, Ayla and Mekt act like "normal" siblings would in our day and age. Garth has some sort of hero worship for Mekt despite his solo status; he obviously looks up to her more than he does Ayla. And he's a runaway, uh-oh.

Super sports star Rokk Krinn is next. Nice to know that despite his status, he's still quite a bit of a nice guy who cares deeply for his family.

Note the Easter Eggs on page 5 - an Alien from the Aliens series, a guy in the bottom left corner who looks a lot like Vandal Savage but is also dressed like the X-Men's Sebastian Shaw, and a guy who resembles Brainiac 5 from the Legion on the Run stories. There's also a Sklarian, though she doesn't dress like Kono did. I wonder how many readers freaked at these little throwaway cameos?

Lots of Legion Worlds mentioned: Tharn (the Sorceror's World), Imsk, Zuun, and of course Winath and Titan. Again, I wonder how many readers freaked at the thoughts that the White Witch, Shrinking Violet or Timber Wolf might be re-written as Legion founders this time?

Next up is Imra Ardeen. Her telepathy isn't particularly impressive, in this scene. Maybe it's because we're used to such power levels from her and similar telepaths like the Martian Manhunter. I have to echo the SPs: "And she's Titan's best telepath?" All she demonstrates here is the ability to read minds. We don't know enough about the "benchmark" level of telepathy here to tell if what she did here is supposed to be impressive. Maybe picking up a stray thought is supposed to be, I don't know. Her combat skills are impressive though - she took down the culprit without harming her, as the culprit can still walk in the very next panel.

We see R.J. Brande close up, and he seems very authentic. I certainly like him here more than I did the Preboot version. His vibe is like that of the jolly, kind, rich old uncle who wows you with interesting stories on family reunions.

Stargates are introduced, and I like how they both open up and restrict space travel at the same time. This opens the writers to have future stories set in remote areas of space without Stargate access, for example. Now Legionnaires can get lost in space in a more plausible manner!

Here comes Imra, being nosey again. Her mind-reading of Garth helps explain why Titanians need to wear a Saturn badge - if someone could and would peek into your mind uninvited, wouldn't you like to know? I have often wondered why other planets don't need to wear an ID. Besides Durlans (which will be touched on in future issues), I'd think that I'd want to know if the sentient beside me is a Daxamite! (shameless plug - I explored that idea in my Andromeda post for "Loss", though instead of an ID I had them wear a red-sun bracelet).

And it looks like the Garth-Imra romance won't be a love-at-first-sight one! More like lust. Oh, Garth. Thinking such adult thoughts!

I also dare say that the Rokk-Garth friendship is off to a great start, and in these few pages has been highlighted more than it has in the entire Adventure run!

Nosey Imra strikes again, but this time she saves RJ Brande's life! She IS nosey enough to catch Rokk and Garth mentally complimenting each other though. What?! Can't two guys get some privacy as they mentally admire each others' [strike]equipment[/strike] powers?

And RJ Brande's status as a visionary is highlighted once more, as only he sees the potential of these three working together.

He acts fast, sending a very familiar face to gather the three (hi Luornu!). Though her powers aren't made obvious here, as she doesn't merge into three. Her personality differences are made obvious as well - the Luornu with Rokk flirts with her target, while the Luornu who gets Garth is all business-like. I do wonder why Garth didn't just zap his assailants. He could have, it's not like they're wearing full-body armor!

I empathize with Imra as well. She's clearly competent and motivated, yet she's tasked with menial jobs. It's fair, though the mention of Hagbard (another familiar name, though I can tell you right now he won't do much for the rest of this continuity) hating Titanians doesn't sound so good.

We also see Shvaughn Erin, and it's interesting to meet her at a time when she isn't a fan of the Legion yet. Let's see how this turns out!

And we have the gathering. Wait, Luornu isn't joining them yet? What?! Come oooooooon! Oh, and Cuspin's a rat. Tsk tsk. Where will this go, I wonder? It's a tad convenient that he's exposed so quickly; and I'm left wondering where this will lead. Why even introduce him? Perhaps it was to add a touch of realism - Rokk is barely an adult, after all, and even veteran athletes need a manager and trainer.

Having the Legion be inspired by multiple 20th century heroes (interesting that the Flash is the 4th hero, and not G.L. or J'Onn) is a good move, and touches on the rich legacy of all of them.

The scene with the 3 agreeing to Brande's proposition is somewhat subdued and not exactly a big, rip-roaring Long Live the Legion moment. Which makes sense in this context; Rokk and Imra are turning their backs on their chosen careers and Garth is technically a runaway. Maybe that's why Cuspin was included; to make Rokk's decision more plausible. Imra's isn't surprising, since she's obviously not satisfied with her first day with the SPs. Garth? I think he's mostly along just to get another shot at Imra.

All in all a rich first issue. Old Legion fans will be thrilled at the possibilities (Luornu is here! Shvaughn Erin is here! RJ Brande will play a bigger role it seems! And the 3 Founders... don't like each other yet!) And there's enough here to thrill a new reader as well, especially with the brains of RJ's assassination revealed to be his business partner!! But there's a looming mystery, as he isn't doing it just for himself. Uh-oh! What sinister forces are at work here? And why is President Chu in the background when Doyle's face is revealed? *Gasp*, is SHE behind this???

The art is a tad rough, but serviceable. The Legionnaires look young, and I for one am pleased that Rokk and Garth aren't musclebound gym bunnies and that Imra's cleavage doesn't look like a pair of overripe fruit.

It's also nice to see the Legionnaires acting (and being treated like) teens. There wasn't much of this at all during the old "Super-Hero club" days, was there?

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 09/02/17 07:05 PM.
#783689 - 08/17/13 08:50 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: He Who Wanders]  
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Wouldn't you like to know?
Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Go for it, Ibby.

I'll contribute as I can.



Thanks, HWW! I'd love to hear YOUR thoughts on how this era compares and contrasts with the Preboot!

#783741 - 08/18/13 06:44 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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She ran and called him Wildfire.
He Who Wanders  Offline
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The Plateaus of Ecstasy
Quote
Next up is Imra Ardeen. Her telepathy isn't particularly impressive, in this scene. Maybe it's because we're used to such power levels from her and similar telepaths like the Martian Manhunter. I have to echo the SPs: "And she's Titan's best telepath?" All she demonstrates here is the ability to read minds. We don't know enough about the "benchmark" level of telepathy here to tell if what she did here is supposed to be impressive. Maybe picking up a stray thought is supposed to be, I don't know.


I read the scene differently.

Imra, like Rokk, is introduced as someone upon whom a lot of lofty expectations have been placed. He's a sports star; she's the best telepath of Titan has to offer--and both encounter the pressures and lack of appreciation that go with such a mantle. Rokk is bombarded by Papparazzi. Imra can't get the police's desired results. This sets up conflict in their individual lives and suggests an incentive for them wanting to join Brande.

One of the things I appreciated in the reboot was that the Legionnaires' power levels were generally nowhere near their preboot levels. In the early Adventure issues, Imra picks up stray thoughts from worlds away; here her power is more localized. I don't think this scene is meant to impress us with her power so much as it is to establish what her power is and to show she is very good at using it.

Quote
We see R.J. Brande close up, and he seems very authentic. I certainly like him here more than I did the Preboot version. His vibe is like that of the jolly, kind, rich old uncle who wows you with interesting stories on family reunions.


Yes. He comes off as less of a caricature here. He's formidable and believable as someone who negotiates with the president of Earth.


Quote
Stargates are introduced . . .

Here comes Imra, being nosey again. Her mind-reading of Garth helps explain why Titanians need to wear a Saturn badge - if someone could and would peek into your mind uninvited, wouldn't you like to know?


While re-reading this issue, I was struck by how much the reboot borrowed from Babylon 5. Both of these ideas--the technology used to travel space and telepaths having to wear special identification and being distrusted by others--were integral parts of that show.


Quote
And it looks like the Garth-Imra romance won't be a love-at-first-sight one! More like lust. Oh, Garth. Thinking such adult thoughts!


Garth is, what, 14 or 15 here? He's thinking 14 or 15 year old thoughts. wink

I did appreciate the contrast in the three founders' personalities. This scene plays out in a more entertaining way than it did in the preboot.


Quote
Oh, and Cuspin's a rat. Tsk tsk. Where will this go, I wonder? It's a tad convenient that he's exposed so quickly; and I'm left wondering where this will lead. Why even introduce him? Perhaps it was to add a touch of realism - Rokk is barely an adult, after all, and even veteran athletes need a manager and trainer.


Not only that, but it gives Rokk an added incentive to throw in with Brande. Since Cuspin has stolen Rokk's endorsement deals, that leaves Rokk (it is implied) with little money to support his family. It would take something major like that for Rokk to consider abandoning a successful sports career to join a team of heroes.

The writer could have making this clear, though.

Quote
Having the Legion be inspired by multiple 20th century heroes (interesting that the Flash is the 4th hero, and not G.L. or J'Onn) is a good move, and touches on the rich legacy of all of them.


Notice Superman's mullet--ugh!


Quote
The scene with the 3 agreeing to Brande's proposition is somewhat subdued and not exactly a big, rip-roaring Long Live the Legion moment. Which makes sense in this context; Rokk and Imra are turning their backs on their chosen careers and Garth is technically a runaway. Maybe that's why Cuspin was included; to make Rokk's decision more plausible. Imra's isn't surprising, since she's obviously not satisfied with her first day with the SPs. Garth? I think he's mostly along just to get another shot at Imra.


I agree that it's a very subdued scene, and I found it disappointing for that reason. Why doesn't Rokk raise an objection that he's abandoning his career? Why doesn't Imra say this isn't what she trained for? Why doesn't Garth hold out until Brande promises him the means to help find his brother? Brande's speech is very inspirational ("It might not work. We might all walk away in three months."), but the trio are far too passive in this scene.

Quote
The art is a tad rough, but serviceable. The Legionnaires look young, and I for one am pleased that Rokk and Garth aren't musclebound gym bunnies and that Imra's cleavage doesn't look like a pair of overripe fruit.


Agreed on both points.

Quote
It's also nice to see the Legionnaires acting (and being treated like) teens. There wasn't much of this at all during the old "Super-Hero club" days, was there?


The word that comes to my mind after re-reading this issue is "innocence." The reboot restores a sense of innocence to the Legion. This can be both a good and bad thing. There's a sense of the Legionnaires being decent kids (even Garth) who are caught up in political realities they have no control over, yet who are now called upon to be a symbol for unity. What kid wouldn't want to make a difference in a troubled world?

Yet the depiction of all this is, to use your word, subdued. It just doesn't feel like there's much at stake here. The final scene with "Lord Doyle" is a clunky way of introducing the villain, and, otherwise, there's little sense of passion or importance to any of the story's events. We are told, for example, of the decades-long war between Braal and Titan, not shown it. There isn't even any real antagonism between Rokk and Imra, just a cursory mention of the war.

The Legionnaires seem almost to have been placed on a pedestal by the creators. The latter approached this story as if they were treading on hallowed ground; they didn't go far enough in making this story their own or making it stand out from previous tellings. The changes they've made are largely surface (though some work better than others, such as the Ranzz siblings' relationship), but we learn very little that's new about the three founders and the world they live in. There are very few insights that one might expect in the re-telling of an old story.

I may do a formal review at some point, but, for right now, I'd grade this story as 76.1 (C).


Check out my new Power Club website!

The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
#783754 - 08/18/13 08:38 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: He Who Wanders]  
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Wouldn't you like to know?
Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Quote
Next up is Imra Ardeen. Her telepathy isn't particularly impressive, in this scene. Maybe it's because we're used to such power levels from her and similar telepaths like the Martian Manhunter. I have to echo the SPs: "And she's Titan's best telepath?" All she demonstrates here is the ability to read minds. We don't know enough about the "benchmark" level of telepathy here to tell if what she did here is supposed to be impressive. Maybe picking up a stray thought is supposed to be, I don't know.


I read the scene differently.

Imra, like Rokk, is introduced as someone upon whom a lot of lofty expectations have been placed. He's a sports star; she's the best telepath of Titan has to offer--and both encounter the pressures and lack of appreciation that go with such a mantle. Rokk is bombarded by Papparazzi. Imra can't get the police's desired results. This sets up conflict in their individual lives and suggests an incentive for them wanting to join Brande.

One of the things I appreciated in the reboot was that the Legionnaires' power levels were generally nowhere near their preboot levels. In the early Adventure issues, Imra picks up stray thoughts from worlds away; here her power is more localized. I don't think this scene is meant to impress us with her power so much as it is to establish what her power is and to show she is very good at using it.



You have a good point there, HWW. I suppose, coming from a point in time where I'd seen telepaths in comic books shutting down multiple minds and altering memories, I was disappointed by how "weak" Imra was. I never disputed that she was the best Titan had to offer; what disappointed me was that if it were so, then telepaths must be quite weak in the Postboot Legion's universe.

I have to agree with you on how subdued it all was, and the distinct lack of passion. Perhaps the creators rushed the formation of the Legion too much - a better tack might have been to have the 3 founders initially rebuff Brande, but then be brought together again at a later date because of another emergency. Only then would they have been convinced to form a team. "So, what now" sure isn't the most auspicious way to begin!

I do like the vastly different interplay between the founders, though - Garth and Rokk as best buddies, with a frosty "friendship" between Garth and Imra. Certainly gives the writers a lot to play with here.


#783802 - 08/18/13 04:46 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: He Who Wanders]  
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The Mainframe
I'll pick up on LSH #0 itself later, but what sort of schedule are we doing for this? I presume we want to avoid Mon/Wed/Fri since they're "Archives days", so depending on whether we do two or three a week, either Sun/Thurs or Sun/Tue/Thurs?

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Having the Legion be inspired by multiple 20th century heroes (interesting that the Flash is the 4th hero, and not G.L. or J'Onn) is a good move, and touches on the rich legacy of all of them.
Notice Superman's mullet--ugh!

They missed a very obvious trick there - all four heroes are then-present (1994) versions. They should have mixed the costumes up a bit - Year One Batman, Byrne Superman, 1994 Wonder Woman, John Fox (future) Flash, perhaps?

As for "Why Flash and not...", well, J'Onn's never really held a solo title, and I think he was off in Justice League Task Force at the time, not even the main JLAmerica title, while Waid & Ross would point-blank refuse to even acknowledge let alone include Kyle in Kingdom Come only a couple of years later. Plus, y'know, Waid was the Flash writer of the time, so including Wally was a slight plug for his other book...


My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Cobalt, Reboot & iB present 21st Century Legion: Earth War .
#783805 - 08/18/13 06:39 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Besides the above "real life" reasons, for in-universe reasons I suppose a GL wasn't chosen because there are a ton of GLs. In an inter-planetary setting why choose one of the Earth GLs instead of, say, Kilowog or one of the Xudarians?

Re schedule, I haven't really thought about it myself. On one hand the Postboot Legion has shorter (?) issues at only 22 pages each compared to some of the Adventure era stories; plus we have more two-parters so 3 a week should be very much ok. Sun/Tue/Thurs sounds good to me even with the time differences.

#784002 - 08/20/13 02:12 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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We just came from an 8-hour power outage, so I'm going to go on ahead and continue.

Legionnaires 0
Close Encounters

Issue information

Summary:

Things are speeding up for the Legion - they're formally introduced/marketed to the UP and the team isn't quite receiving a warm welcome from all sectors. Can they foil a terrorist attack on the delegates and achieve respect and acceptance?

Familiar faces Tinya Wazzo and Luornu Durgo are in the right place at the right time, and the issue closes with the introductions of 6 more possible new members.

Thoughts:

We start with an infomercial of the 3 founders. Cosmic Boy, interestingly, is the one most shocked - yet he should be the one most used to being in the spotlight. The second shot makes it seem like he's flying; some clever editing or is he using his magnetism to "fly"?

Botk Rokk and Imra are 15, a year older than Garth. They both do seem more level-headed, but it's probably because of their life experiences (Rokk supporting his family, Imra in intense study) than a function of their age. Garth was supposed to be called "Lightning Lad" but marketing changed his name to Live Wire because it was fresher. They probably didn't mess with the "Cosmic Boy" codename for Rokk because he was already known by it. I guess they couldn't come up with anything else for Saturn Girl. Of course, in real life we know they just copied the codenames the 3 Founders' SW6 counterparts had.

Mr. Brande, to his credit, answers Imra as an adult would to an equal. I find him so well-written that even I call him "Mr." Brande! It just doesn't seem right callimg him RJ, he's so respectable.

Marla Latham reappears as well. Preboot I think he only appeared twice, once in the story introducing Ultra Boy and the other when he was framed for murder. It's good to see him taking a bigger role here, and it makes sense as Mr. Brande doesn't have the free time to handle all the details.

So the 3 Founders designed their own outfits? That's the implication, at least. Yet they didn't seem to have picked their own codenames.

Not sure what the point is of keeping Doyle's face in shadow; we already know who he is. In the first panel of the page you can see him clearly as well. Artistic license?

Tinya Wazzo is here! Nice to see a familiar face agai. Boy, is her mom scary. Grabbing her by the ear, what? I'm not sure if the other delegates are surprised that she can phase, or that she phased through the UP globe itself (based on how Winema reacts, possibly the latter). You can even see the guy beside her facepalming.

RJ Brande earns cool points again for thinking that the new uniforms are cool. I always did take issue with the use of the word "uniform" though; they're not uniforms because they aren't identical. There's a sort of central-stripe with outer colors design, but they are hardly uniforms.

The Legionnaires face a tough crowd, and they know it. As many teens do, they try to seek approval but at least they're doing it the right way. I am much more impressed with Imra now than I was last issue, as she was able to scan the minds of dozens of sentients in a very short time. I take back what I said about her not being all that powerful!

She loses a few points, though, for blabbing out about the bomb. As Garth said, "smooth move". Frankly, besides her alerting everyone about the Brande assasination attempt (which was needed to prevent his death), she could have been more cautious both against Cuspin and against the jewel thief on Titan. But oh well.

Garth is a little reckless as well, though he does have a point -blowing out a wall could have injured more people and it would have been harder to get rid of the bomb without the altitude. Cosmic Boy takes charge and gets the three of them working together well despite their inexperience and the little blame games going on.

Luornu also pulls an amazing save, one that she couldn't have without her triplicating abilities. You go, girl! And props to Rj Brande for trying to save the President himself.

Imra strikes again, catching the crooks. I don't mind so much that she doesn't show the ability to shut down minds or stuff, her thought-scanning is already very useful.

Tinya jumps right into the fray! Good thing Garth picked up on her intangibility and fried the bad guy. She totally earned her stripes and her (future) flight ring here, and her line makes it clear she wants to earnt he respect of her MOM. Her mom, by the way, is totally overbearing but means well - it's a tough combination to deal with.

And so the Legion grows by two, with Apparition and Triad quickly joining the ranks and the UP (or at least trhe crowd here) fully behind them. Not a bad start huh? Saving the UP assembly from a bomb sure earns you a lot of cred.

But hold, what do we have here? Chu wants to send them in a mission - and to prep them she wants to add another half dozen Legionnaires! In short order we get familiar faces Gim Allon, Lyle Norg, Querl Dox and KID QUANTUM? Uh-oh, we all know how that turned out. There's also a mysterious covered figure; I'm sure old-time fans familiar with the Preboot Legion's joining order guessed it would be Reep Daggle. And new girl Jenni Ognats, who has super speed apparently.

Star Boy is also mentioned, but he's passed up in favor of Kid Quantum. Why? Perhaps the Xantihans felt he was the one they could "spare" the most, as they made a big deal out of not weakening their own forces.

Gim is also a science cop; will he and Imra have different approaches to their work? His growth power is fully accepted by his teammates, but that may be because he is a Science Cop. They might react differently if he becomes a Legionnaire.

Lyle is sneaky and mischievous, more so than his Preboot or SW6 counterparts were.

And Brainy... he hasn't usually been depicted as this preoccupied and borderline rude. well, this is gonna be very interesting.

I'm sure a lot of old-time Legion fans were excited; we end the issue with 5 Legionnaires and 6 more on the way, plus Ayla Ranzz, Star Boy (and Atmos) all existing in this new continuity. Several elements are the same, with the Legionnaires mostly having the same identities and powers and even joining in roughly the same order they did Preboot. What's new, as HWW pointed out, is the Legionnaires are acting more like teens with "typical" teen problems like overbearing moms and unrequited crushes and even chips on their shoulders.

There is enough to hook some new readers as well, and I think having a cast of 5 + 6 = 11 Legionnaires is just the right number for now; enough to seem like a Legion but not enough to overwhelm. The supporting cast is turning out pretty nicely, too.

A solid issue, but then again not a rip-roaring LONG LIVE THE LEGION one. The team isn't charging into greatness so much as slowly easing itself into it, and I think the writers wanted to keep it that way so we could experience their growing pians firsthand.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 06/15/14 01:16 AM.
#784027 - 08/20/13 09:23 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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LSH #0:

This is a lot more fun than I had remembered. Visually, there's a lot going on - the easter eggs that IB pointed out (I'd missed those!), lots of aliens and different clothing, what looks like the tail of a dog standing in line at the counter - but maybe it's a sentient alien? Rokk, Imra and Garth really do look like teenagers and have very distinctive personalities. Ayla and Lu are also given actual character - Ayla cautious and responsible; Lu competent and unflappable. Bits of back story and hints of future developments (like the reporter's question to Rokk about debt structure) make this a full and multi-layered issue to read.

There was a red-haired assassin - I wonder if they thought at some point to make that guy Mekt and have Garth cover up for him.


Legionnaires #0:

This issue really builds up the team quickly. It is fun for old-time Legion fans to see the group growing and meet somewhat familiar characters in new circumstances. New readers must have found this a good introduction as well; a lot of characters are introduced, but each one gets some panel time and background - something that was filled in after the fact in the original Legion.

You get the idea, from the set-up, that each of these teens has been chosen for the Legion; only at the end do you read the actual conscription message.

A scene I would have liked to see: Tinya's mother getting the news that her daughter was selected (or offered?) to be Bgtzl's representative. We've had some indication that other parents are out there, specifically Garth's and Rokk's, but Winema is the first one we actually meet and, while she's a classic, she's a very realistic mother of a teenager, alternating between annoyance and concern.





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#784150 - 08/21/13 09:01 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Awesome to have you commenting, FC! I totally missed the easter egg you caught. In the very same panel as the dog's tail, there's a sentient who looks like a mole rat with clothes too. I love that crowd scenes on any planet have a mix of human and alien "people"; the Adventure Era for example usually had more homogeneous crowds.

Tinya would mention just a few issues later that she'd never have been admitted into the Legion without Winema's okay. I would also have loved to have seen that scene.

Good catch on the red-headed assassin. It would have been interesting, but I guess the writers didn't do that as it would have possibly derailed the Legion's formation!

#784529 - 08/23/13 10:58 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Since the weekend is coming up, I sure hope more posters will be able to contribute!

Legion of Super-Heroes 62
Forced Friends, Deadly Consequences

Issue information


Summary:

The Legion's membership has doubled, with Cosmic Boy, Live Wire, Saturn Girl, Apparition and Triad being joined by Leviathan, Chameleon, XS, Invisible Kid and Kid Quantum. Leviathan is appointed Legion leader, and they are quickly thrown into their first mission without the chance to really get to know one another. They investigate a series of spaceship disappearances, and what they find is pretty scary... Can the untested team pull together and survive this?

Not all of them will.

Thoughts:

Anyone familiar with the v4 Legion must already have had an inkling as to how this issue would end. Heck, the title even hints so!

Ah, the VR room! If I were a Legionnaire I'd spend a lot of time there with the others, too! Aside from doing naughty stuff with Condo and Lyle (and Blaze, how could I leave him out of it?), it'd be great for bonding and for developing teamwork with the rest.

I don't know what to think about the girls' derision of the VR room. Short-sighted, perhaps, but they do raise a lot of interesting questions. How would the VR room create a "mind" for Imra to read, or objects for Tinya to phase through?

I love that they played a prank on the boys, though.

The panel on the next page shows a great snapshot of what the UP thinks about the Legion. Interesting that Lu among the girls, and Cos among the (two) guys are the ones attracting the opposite sex.

More easter eggs: Data and someone else from Star Trek, the 3 Stooges, and a guy in a sleeveless red shirt who looks a lot like Mon-El or Superboy. Oh, Lu! Why does Lu Neutral react like that when Lu Purple gives their number? Either she doesn't really want to date that guy (despite acting all flattered), or she's worried Lu Purple will "go behind her back"?

Next we have an illuminating next few pages that characterize the "next 5" Legionnaires:

1) Leviathan is a take-charge dude, but I wouldn't quite call him a leader yet. Act first, talk later? Definitely different from previous Gims. "Who do you think you are?" Oh, I dunno, just the founder of YOUR team. "Our" team, he says. I guess the UP holds more stock with him than the other Legionnaires do.

2) Kid Quantum has a big ego and is extremely unlikable. Uh-oh. "Team?" he says. Nasshead.

3) XS has a terrible codename IMO (XS = Excess? okay...) though using only 2 letters does fit her "rushed" speed powers. I for one like the "talking fast" bit. She could probably have taken on Cham by herself, but running for the others shows she's either a very team-oriented gal or that she's afraid to act on her own. Do I see a little hero worship of Cos too? She seems mighty disappointed when he doesn't exactly welcome her with open arms.

4) Cham can't speak Interlac, great. We do know he's peaceful enough since he only shifts in self-defense, and Lyle was able to talk him down.

5) Lyle is kind of sneaky, keeping himself invisible the whole time. He's smart, speaking Durlan well enough to communicate with Cham. Confident, too. Maybe a bit... aloof? And sarcastic, for sure.

Cos continues to be the voice of reason (being elected by the other 4), while Garth is both a bit of a hothead though sensible enough to wait for Cos' lead. Imra is willing to support her friend Cos, as well.

Dissension in the ranks? Even Jenni and Lyle seem a bit put off by Gim's priorities. Big glory, huh?

Heh, Starsector 247-A!

Tinya and Lu already have a budding friendship, like their Preboot counterparts supposedly did.

Gim makes his first bad call of the mission. Splitting up so soon? Didn't he ever watch horror movies? It's not really that bad a call, but his team-ups are questionable. He wants Lyle to "watch the Durlan" (who by the way IS A FULL-FLEDGED LEGIONNAIRE, HELLO!) but doesn't send a third with them. Cosmic Boy, the other team member who's shown the best leadership skills so far, is in the same subteam as him. Seems very unbalanced to me.

Two pages later, two of the subteams meet up again. I was hoping we'd get a bit more characterization with the smaller teams, but I guess they didn't have the space.

I like how Lyle's invisibility doesn't make him a Mary Sue here. He's a valuable team member, but he's not Batman.

Wow, nice tackle from Apparition there! I'd guess she knows how to fight! And good for her, telling Kid Quantum off like that.

Gim's battle tactics suck. Cos, Lyle and even Garth take charge more than he does, and he doesn't even have the sense to shrink down.

I'm guessing these "drone" things aren't alive, because a) Cos can nab them with his magnetism, suggesting they're metallic; b) they explode when crashing into walls; and c) the Legionnaires blow them up (though I doubt they have a Legion code yet).

Kid Quantum's belt power's running low already? How long have they been there anyway? He also makes the classic movie villain mistake of standing there AND TAUNTING HIS OPPONENT. Idiot. Oh well, here it goes...

Gim earns points back for admitting he made some mistakes (though I, like Cos, don't blame him totally - James was really difficult to work with and they were thrown into the deep end too soon!) He earns even more props for offering to resign.

Cos earns MAJOR props for acting like a true leader and encouraging Gim. Now THAT is a true leader.

The cast of 10 Legionnaires is handled well, with everyone getting something to do and some additional characterization. Besides James, I like how they mesh well with each other and in a realistic manner. All in all a solid story with good pacing and action and a promise for more - you just know this isn't the last we've seen of Tangleweb!

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 06/15/14 01:17 AM.
#784649 - 08/24/13 07:07 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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I think that was Spock with Data. And I was really puzzling over who the hunk was in the red shirt. Stupid me! Given Lu's preboot/5YL history, it had to be Superboy/Valor.

What a great clash of personalities and independent go-getters versus government bureaucracy. One can just imagine the difficulties in getting people from all different planets, supposedly chosen for their exceptional abilities, to form a team right off the bat. AND you've got a leader parachuted in, displacing the established, most natural leader. Cosmic Boy really shows his leadership qualities in this story.

The team has built up really quickly and each Legionnaire is distinguished not only by superpower but by personality. Gim's reaction to "the Durlan" is extreme and surprising for anyone who read the original Legion. It sets the basis for a long-running story line and illustrates some of the problems the United Planets is having to remain united.

I never liked Tangleweb; he is a creepy villain but a sentient spider just didn't resonate with me. Somehow Tolkein's Shelob was a lot scarier because she didn't talk; she was just a giant, hungry spider. I sort of feel like I could maybe reason with Tangleweb, then we could go have a beer together.

However, I really enjoyed story, establishing the new team. It's sort of sad to think how it all degenerated, but that's quite a few issues away from now.



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#784664 - 08/24/13 08:40 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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I'm with you FC, this was a good start. Just enjoying it for how it is "at the moment", so to speak tongue

"Independent go-getters" is definitely the right word! I think XS (and the non-Interlac-speaking Cham) was the only one who didn't have a rebellious or stubborn streak.

And despite the shiny bright surface, it's a good insight that the UP is hardly as united as they project. Durlans not allowed to "roam free"; Titanians required to wear an ID. Tsktsk.

#784978 - 08/26/13 10:58 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Legionnaires 19
The Quick and the Dead

Issue information

Summary:

Wait, we already had a death last issue! Don't tell me it isn't over? The team deals with Kid Quantum's death and explores some of the possible political consequences.

XS also has to deal with her panicking during a mission last issue - and she gets her chance when only she among the team is left able to act during an attack on Kid Quantum's funeral.

Thoughts:

My first thought was: wait, they CAN'T possibly kill XS! She's all-new, arguably the most powerful of the current Legionnaires, and IMO a very sympathetic character! Plus she's (besides Cham) the only non-caucasian left in the cast (besides the Asian Chu)!

Our new hero, XS, is heavily featured on the cover. Jeff Moy also does cover art, and I think his cover is much more gorgeous than his interiors are right now. I don't know if it's the inking.

I like that the issue starts with discussions from "men on the street" about the Legion. Makes sense there would be some skeptics.

The blue alien woman with no eyes is slightly creepy. I know I've seen some science fiction shows with eyeless androids, but I don't think this one is.

We have about 2/3 of a page with RJ rightly expressing outrage, and the Legionnaires are 100% behind him! Well, maybe not Leviathan. Apparition and Triad are quite sneaky and have the makings of good Espionage Squad members. Oh Tinya, the Incredibles would have a lot to say about getting caught by your cape. Luornu proves that she's a Legionnaire for more than just her power; she very cleverly uses the security systems to her advantage!

RJ gives props where props are due, crediting Gim for being able to admit his mistakes.

Ah, so that's what happened to Brainy. And he used to work for RJ? Whoa. Small cosmos.

Did Imra just cough up BLOOD? This scene highlights the dangers of telepathy - it's a double-edged sword. To her credit, Imra takes it and even tries to stop Garth's more unusual method. To Garth's credit, he definitely exercised enough care to avoid hitting them.

I know Jenni was scared, but could she possibly have dodged the draft? Seems unlikely given how the draft notice was phrased. Okay, so she panicked momentarily. It's good that Cos picked up on it, but I wouldn't really call it cowardice. She ran back right away and I think her decision to leave was spurred mostly by James' death than by her moment of panic.

Highly convenient for Doyle's viewscreen to pop on just when his name was mentioned. Maybe he set it to do just that. Half the money? Frankly, even only half the money Brande Industries makes is quite a lot!

I'm not sure why Lyle had to instruct Cham to shapeshift when the blaster was pointed at him. Maybe Cham wasn't in any real danger from said blaster? And Lyle was obviously trying to scare Doyle into surrendering, because last issue proved that Cham's fairly peaceful.

Nice to see some reality in the transference of "old Earth customs". We also have a lot of modern practices whose origins we don't really know.

Also nice to see intertron reintroduced.

Whew, seeing that bomb explode in slow motion was pretty amazing. Sadly, poor James' body is now kaput. I'd like to think that some of the faces in the crowd are the Cullen family and at least some Xanthu officials and Amazers - with Stargates there's no excuse for them to be absent. Of course, you'd expect the Cullens to be front and center with the Legionnaires.

XS shows smarts in prioritizing - she saves Chu and RJ first.

The stasis field doesn't extend outside the immediate bomb zone; why doesn't anyone in the crowd react? Or is everything just happening that fast? Good illustration of XS' speed here - wow, the assassins really underestimated her. I like the scene with Cos saving Jenni back - good illustration of teamwork. She's the star of the day, for sure.

Finally, we;re introduced to Mano, the first familiar big-name villain to be reintroduced. This is a very different Mano; the old one destroyed his homeworld out of spite, while this one did out of sadness. On a side note, at least some of the dead Angtuans wear the same outfit that Mano does. A military uniform?

I wonder, are the woman and child Mano is cuddling related to him? Or were they just the closest to him?

Yikes! Planetary suicide! Did Mano try using his power on himself as well? I would assume he did later on, since he so badly wanted to die too.

All in all a good issue. The subplot in the background (who is trying to destabilize the UP?) continues; we get some good focus on the new Legionnaire XS; and Mano is introduced. Not bad for a 22-page comic!

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 06/15/14 01:17 AM.
#785079 - 08/27/13 08:57 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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That blue alien woman looks like one of the 5YL probes that everyone had as servants/assistants.

The Legionnaires are a little less straight arrow than the original versions. They're eavesdropping on R.J. and Winema, Saturn Girl doesn't have the experience to deal with the rotten thoughts of the three assassins.

Marla's reaction to Brainiac 5 is great and sets up the (now) classic Brainy-blows-things-up characterization.

Kid Quantum's death and funeral didn't have much impact for me; we hardly got to know him and he did behave like an ass on his first and last mission.

I think I prefer this origin for Mano to the original. It's more tragic. It also introduces that rat McCauley into the picture. I figure that was a military uniform, since Angtu had been at war for ages.




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#785082 - 08/27/13 09:06 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Come to think of it, Kid Quantum's death seemed to do little to further the character growths of anyone besides XS and Leviathan. None of the other Legionnaires seem particularly affected by it: we don't see anyone else questioning why they joined the Legion. Even if James was patently unlikable, you'd think the others would be shaken up a bit more - especially considering that Lyle and perhaps Gim and Imra are the only ones with any sort of military/police/spy experience.

I also prefer Mano as a more tragic character than as an outright villain. You keep thinking that if things had turned out differently, he might even have been a Legionnaire in this reality.

#785922 - 08/31/13 11:56 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Legion of Super-Heroes 63
Things at Hand

Issue Information

Summary:

The team gets a major upgrade - a new headquarters. We also meet RJ Brande's rival Leland McCauley, who has problems of his own in the form of a vengeful Mano. Despite the danger, the Legionnaires race to the Moon to stop him. However, they aren't quite prepared for the lengths Mano is willing to go to in order to get revenge.

Plus, Brainiac 5 finally joins the team.

Thoughts:

Uhoh. Mano seemed like such a decent guy last time, but now he's mad! All the deaths are made all the more tragic because a) McCauley is such a big jerk, and b) Mano started off with good intentions. Damn.

Tinya has a point here, why WOULD the UP draft a Legionnaire who couldn't speak the language? I think the UP, at this point, is using the Legion primarily as a marketing tool. Maybe they wanted Cham in to appeal to the non-humanoid member planets.

The Athramites are annoying and kinda creepy, but Garth, Lu and Lyle running away from them is a bit of on overreaction. Funny, though.

Oh, the MMB symbols! I missed those! I do wish Triad had used her triangular chest symbol instead though.

I would have expected gravcars to be common issue in the 30th century. Or is Gim marveling at their enhanced speed instead?

Oh, that Legion HQ is sweeeeeeeet and I would have reacted exactly the same way. The design borrows heavily from the SW6 Legion's HQ, down to the meeting room. Glad Lyle is there to get Imra to defrost a bit and try the damned VR room already. How does the VR room compensate for possible destruction caused by powers, though? Lightning rods for Garth's lightning bolts, non-magnetic materials for Cos?

Ah, a Bugs Bunny cameo on page 8. Cute.

So Imra DID try the VR room! Not in control? A setup for a future story?

Hey, it's Tenzil! Rats, so he might not be a Legionnaire this time around. But at least he's here! Nice one, Triad.

And Brainy finally shows up! Boy is he focused. At least he had the decency to mutter out a "Greetings". I wonder if Lyle feels threatened that we have someone potentially more intelligent on the team.

McCauley, slimy as ever.

And now we have the first appearance of the White Triangle. Hm, one thing I miss about the Adventure Era was that the stories there were so self-contained. All scenes in a particular issue tied into the main plot of that issue. No spillovers, no throwaway lines that may not even lead to anything.

Nice contrast here between Brande and McCauley. One is conscientious, the other greedy. And Brande's mysterious past, ooooh.

Big surprise, a lot of Sci-cops don't want to cooperate. Stupid of them, frankly. But how did Mano take them all out? They have the benefit of range on their side. And why did he leave this one guy alive? Didn't think he was a threat anymore? And with his announcement to McCauley I guess he didn't care about keeping hidden.

Heh. Cos' team is full of females. Oh, Cos.

Saturn Girl fails to detect Mano early enough. That's the problem with telepathy; it's hard to set defined power limits. Her telepathic range is not defined at all.

Good that Lyle was smart enough to keep invisible. I think some Legionnaires like Lyle and Tinya would do well to keep their powers at "default" all the time.

Frankly, Mano doesn't seem too tough here. Both XS and Leviathan got in good hits, and had Mano not been backed up against the dome I'm sure they could have beat him. Still, it was good of the writers to have that situation. They showed how driven Mano had become, and he WAS tough enough to take XS' and Leviathan's attacks without getting knocked out. A pretty formidable second opponent for the Legion.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 06/15/14 01:20 AM.
#785934 - 09/01/13 02:15 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Legionnaires 20
The Descent of Mano

Issue information

Summary:

How will the Legionnaires survive the bad place Mano left them in last issue - on the surface of the moon with no environmental shielding or oxygen? And how do they stop an opponent who, with enough time, could actually blow up the whole Moon?

Also, it is sibling rivalry as the issue ends with the introduction of Ayla Ranzz!

Thoughts:

Mano's on a crazy mission of vengeance here. Yikes!

Cosmic Boy does a good job saving the time while he's straining to hold onto consciousness. As a swimmer, I can appreciate how hard it is to concentrate when your lungs feel on fire.

XS tries valiantly but falls. Luckily, Chameleon was there to help.

Tinya reacts with disgust at Cham's touch. I wonder, couldn't a phased Apparition have just sank into the ground to get to safety?

Ah-Heet-Dees-Plees! Heh. Cham should use that line more often. Sadly, I doubt he understands what he said at all.

Mad props to the Legionnaires for staying despite being in danger, and for Brande to warn them of it and urge them to come home. Props to Lyle as well, for acknowledging Brainy's intelligence and coming to him for help.

And mad SLOPS to McCauley for being the greedy, paranoid and amoral nasshead that he is.

Whoo! Brainy figured all THAT out without even being there? Very smart, alright. I love the scene on page 13 where the Legion charges into action. Would have loved it more if they were flying, though. I miss those flight rings!

"Can't you even read a clock?" Heh.

The scene of Tinya walking in on the naked guy is funny AND believable - in a place like that, you'd get horny too. Naughty writers! (I wonder if that's his girlfriend back home, or a performer).

Great teamwork from Cos and Gim there!

Mano's escape raises a lot of questions. Just how thin was that floor? Surely he's not just using the blaster to carve an entire tunnel?

Cham and Lyle double-team McCauley again, like they did Doyle. They make a good pair. But wait! Wouldn't Tinya have been in a better position to follow McCauley? I'm starting to feel like Lyle's getting all the glory. Of course, since he's the only one who can talk to Cham it should have been him. But... did he NEED to have told Cham to punch Mano? Hello, Cham can't speak Interlac but that doesn't mean he's stupid.

Jenni tries hard throughout, trying to help search even. You'll get there, girl. Don't worry. She does it in a way that's endearing rather than annoying.

Ugh, McCauley tries to buy off the Legion. Nasshead!

And Garth's runaway status is coming back to haunt him. Enter Ayla!!

Wow. The surprises just keep on coming.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 06/15/14 01:20 AM.
#786519 - 09/05/13 03:37 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Can't wait until you catch up to Andromeda!

As an aside, I'm not sure whether or not anyone has noticed but, over the years, whatever was the 'current' variation in TV and film scifi drama has always left its mark on the (various) Legion titles.

In the Pre-boot era, the original Legion cruiser looked a LOT like a Klingon ship from Star Trek... Mike Grell frequently added little touches from Space:1999 here and there...

Now, with the beginning of the Post-boot era, the dominant scifi shows (of that time) were the latest iteration of Star Trek and Babylon-5, the latter of which heavily influenced both story and art.

Suddenly we had large stargates that ships traveled through rather than warp-capable ships, as was the case in Babylon-5 and it wasn't until the "Stargate-SG1" era of TV that the reboot began reflecting that in it's 'people-scaled' stargates.

The whole 'people of Titan must wear symbols to let people know that they're telepaths'... that was almost a clone of Babylon-5's similar treating of telepaths (except that they wore black leather gloves and wore a Psi-core patch).

Anyway, I thought that I'd share that little insight with you.

#786564 - 09/06/13 06:36 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Thanks Georgehaze! I'd love to read YOUR reviews as well, especially since I know how passionate you are about the Postboot Legion.

That's a good insight you shared. I think it's great that the Legion's creators have been open to adapting elements from other universes and series. It helps enrich the Legion's reality, and it's only right that they keep innovating given they're set 1000+ years in the future!

#786569 - 09/06/13 07:33 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Something that you said about Tinya and her response to Cham is that, in this version of the Legion (early on, at any rate) there were more frequent occurrences of species-racism (for lack of any better term).

I've got to think that this would, in all likelihood, be a perfectly normal reaction. Certainly, it is more so than the Trek-ish and Star Wars-like commonplace reactions that one sees to thoroughly alien contact, even in enlightened cultures. Even in the 30th century, it's not that easy to throw off millions of years of evolutionarily learned behavior.

Sure, there's the argument that people learn to fear spiders and snakes and that such fear is not inherent in our species. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of people recoil at the presence of either - no one taught them to do this.

As such, seeing Tinya recoil at Cham's touch seems a valid reaction, and one that I wish that had been expanded upon. Conversely, for a species that can alter its shape, texture, size, color, smell, etc, like the Durlans, such an emotional reflex would probably seem quite baffling.

Now, the hatred that Laurel/Andromeda had for Querl (at first, before their mutual - and mutually denied, though no one else was buying it - attraction started kicking in) was obviously learned prejudice, taught and enforced by her family/community.

In summation; this (among so many other such things) is just another example of the superior writing that was one of the best defining characteristic of the Post-boot era.

Just more observations... thanks for letting me share.

#786575 - 09/06/13 09:07 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Hey, thank YOU for adding in your two credits! I'm glad we'e able to generate more discussion.

Besides the racism to the shapeshifting Durlans and the telepaths of Titan, I'm glad this version of the Legion also explored Coluan snobbery, the racism/xenophobia of the Daxamites and their White Triangle lackeys, and even the Carggitte's intra-species prejudice and the Winathian's treatment of solos. You're right in that there's a "natural" and instinctive reaction towards what is different - even Kinetix was seen by some of her people as an aberration of nature (sadly, this was never explored), and Gates was looked at skance by the Vyrgans for being opinionated. Then we have how the Orandan serpents treated the raccoons as servants, and Monstress
having a rough time on Xanthu.

What I liked about it was that it showed the future was NOT perfect - but it was still worth fighting for because of people like the Legionnaires who stood as models of cooperation and unity. It was realistically flawed, yet still hopeful.

#786591 - 09/06/13 11:20 AM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
....What I liked about it was that it showed the future was NOT perfect - but it was still worth fighting for because of people like the Legionnaires who stood as models of cooperation and unity. It was realistically flawed, yet still hopeful.


You've hit on one of the reasons why, in my opinion, the three-boot Legion and the pre-boot Legions failed.... neither of them inspired the readers. The adult legion just didn't have the youthful sense of adventure that made the Legion worth reading. And the three-boot Legions's reason for even existing as a group in nonsensical.

The Post-boot Legion were brought together from their individual worlds to inspire, like those of the 20th century that inspired R.J. Brande.

#786635 - 09/06/13 05:45 PM Re: Re-Reading the Postboot Legion! [Re: Invisible Brainiac]  
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Yes, I completely agree with you on those distinctions. Going through the Adventure Era Legion, the Pre-boot Legion (at least in its early days) seemed more like a club for Superboy's peers than a "galactic force for inspiration and unity". Although to be fair, maybe we should use the terminology for the final era of the Preboot - the 5 Years later portion tongue I think earlier volumes captured the youth and the inspiration, though I agree that from around v3 or so the camaraderie and adventure seemed to vanish and the characters' concerns grew too adult for me.

Even then, when the youthful SW6 Legion was introduced, they were supposed to makr a return to the youthful, inspiring days. But there was plenty of infighting too (jerk Inferno, jerk Live Wire) whick, frankly, turned me off the book.

The Threeboot's teenage rebellion was inspiring to teens, but ultimately divisive because they failed to engage the adults.

A lot of people deride the Postboot Legion for being too "Archie", but I'll say again that I LIKED the bright and shiny future and the genuine friendship among the Legionnaires! Why can't our heroes be happy people who genuinely enjoy what they do?

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