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Re: Re-Reads (Coming soon: Claremont's X-Men!)
Set #798195 01/05/14 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Set
Tom Corsi, Sharon Friedlander, and various other humans interacting with the X-folk, or even working at the mansion, like Moira McTaggart and Stevie Hunter, are something I miss from that generation, as it seemed that Xavier was actually trying to 'live the dream' of mutants and humans co-existing. I later years, humans working alongside the mutants, or even dating them (like Amanda Sefton, Trish Tilby, Candy Southern or Charlotte Jones) tended to get ditched in favor of yet more mutants.


Very good point, Set. Post-Claremont, things really got a lot more insular in that manner. I miss characters like that who weren't the stars of the show but who played interesting roles that added a lot of texture to the stories.


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Re: Re-Reads (Coming soon: Claremont's X-Men!)
Lard Lad #798328 01/07/14 11:10 AM
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A few thoughts as I catch up:

Per the last two posts, I can’t agree more. I really miss the regular humans interacting with the X-Men, which only made the series all the more special. That is greatly missed these days not just in X-Men but in other series as well. This was something swept away during the early 90’s which has never really returned.

Lardy, love your thoughts on Thunderbird on the prior page. A really nice analysis and after reading it, I think you pretty much nailed it! Thunderbird was an X-Men character I just didn’t even know about for the first few years I read the series, so he holds a mystique for me in that regard. I love the cover of #96 because we get to see him front & center!

Regarding Count Nefaria, he returned early in the Layton / Michelinnie Iron Man run, correct? I believe in the story that broke up Madame Masque and Tony after they’d been together for some time. Layton was basically “Shooter’s man” at Marvel all those years, and often did jobs that were directly following Shooter’s orders. So Shooter certainly would have played a part.

For Wolverine, I’ve just spent months rereading interviews by the creators and from what I’ve gleaned it wasn’t Chris or John that saved Wolverine, it was actually Cockrum! Cockrum was the one who convinced Claremont that there was more to Wolverine than the initial set-up Len Wein created (or stole, according to an article on Bleeding Cool that I’m inclined to believe). Cockrum gave Logan a bit more humanity and just made him all around more odd, which made Claremont like him more. When Byrne came on, seeing a fellow Canadian, he adopted him as one of his favorites and then the rest was history.

For me personally, I love Wolverine so much from Giant-Sized #1 through the first 100 issues of A-N, A-D that I don’t care what came next. He is so well done all the way through that its easy to see why fans went apeshit for him. Sure, he later came to dominate the MU. But oh well. So do a lot of other heroes in Marvel and DC. That’s the name of the game for corporate driven, soulless, evil comic books. I don’t think Wolverine is a bad character and I feel there is *still* a lot of good stories for him.

Lardy, you are right that Wolvie first says “Bub” in #94, written by Claremont.

Regarding Michael Rossi, since I also used to get him confused with other characters: he was introduced in #96 as a military intelligence officer, and like so many other “NPCs”, Claremont really liked him. So much so that he made him a major supporting character for Carol Danvers in Ms. Marvel when he started writing that series (which would not relatively shortly). He also eventually made him a love interest for her. Once that got cancelled and she was torpedoed by Shooter, Layton & company, Claremont not only brought her in the X-Men as a way to salvage one of his favorites, he also eventually brought along Rossi too. Rossi appears in the story where Wolverine and Carol infiltrate the Pentagon only to find Mystique and Rogue already there, leading to a brouhaha. Later, Rossi would continually appear—usually related to spy games / military intelligence ops, or in stories that focused on the Carol Danvers / Rogue problems. You may have already dropped the book by that point, but Rossi played a very good role in Rogue dealing with having Carol’s memories…by holding Rogue’s feet to the fire and not forgiving her for what she did to Carol.

Tom Corsi was a cop who became friendly with the New Mutants and eventually became the security guard of the school. Like Set mentioned, he was turned into a Native American during the demon bear saga with Sharon Friedlander. Later, after the Mutant Massacre (in which he has a fast but awesome scene guarding the mansion with Rogue) he went to Muir Island with the injured X-Men and Morlocks. He then played a part defending the island from the Reavers in the “no team” era (which IMO held up pretty well!).

Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798332 01/07/14 12:10 PM
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And a few more reviews. (I had notes for these after I read them, but alas, I must have deleted the notes).

X-Men #97
Claremont & Cockrum begin the first lingering subplot villain with #97 by introducing Eric the Red, which will in time kick off the gloriously cosmic side of the early A-N,A-D X-Men. It’s worth noting that Claremont uses a character from the Thomas / Adams run again, as he’s clearing using that as inspiration for this new era. While Eric plays a role in the story, the focus is really more on Havok and Polaris (who is finally given that name) as they come to blows with the X-Men. This includes some really nice Scott versus Alex sequences, which is really the first time we’ve gotten a chance to see that since Alex had been truly established!

In fact, this issue serves—like #96—as a nice bridge to the full-on Claremont era. Here, Chris focuses on addressing a few outstanding things, such as making sure Jean Grey is back in the cast, and letting us know where Alex and Lorna have been. He gives Alex and Lorna a pretty great (IMO) life off-panel, where they are both doctoral students in the cool setting of Rio Diablo. By now, the Champions was underway and Beast was more and more established as an Avenger, so this addresses a lingering question. He also doesn’t resolve the issue of their working for Eric the Red, and in a way allows for continued interest in what were really the two most obscure mutant heroes.

Bringing back Jean to the series was a smart move on Claremont’s part for a whole plethora of reasons, which we’ll see. Yet what’s interesting is she’s never quite “one of the X-Men” hereafter. At first, she’s not even really on the roster until after her resurrection (and recovery); then she plays such a large part in the Shi’ar Saga that she’s pretty distanced from the others. From there, she eventually will be separated from the X-Men for a long, long time, and only when they are finally reunited, do we get the Hellfire Saga which leads into the Dark Phoenix Saga. If you’re going to have a mega-powerful cast member, this is pretty much how you have to do it. While that may be frustrating for some, for me it makes Jean all the more interesting from here on out.

Worth noting: it was Cockrum who wanted to set the issue at JFK as he thought the massive amount of damage would seem ridiculous in a funny way. Now compare that to the recent Superman film, with all the damage in that movie (which basically made me take it as serious as the Howard the Duck movie).

X-Men #98 – halfway through #101
It’s with his first Sentinels story that Claremont really makes the series his own, and he and Cockrum deliver an incredible story from start to finish. I closed this off at “halfway through #101” since like so many mixed up Marvel comics of the 60’s and 70’s, they have an awkward transition in one issue that closes one story and starts the next. It’s a marketing tool through and through, invented by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. I find it amusing because you NEVER see that anymore.

This story really has just about everything. In addition to seeing the X-Men continually interact, which is something HWW rightly pointed out as the single greatest aspect of this era of X-Men and worth the price of admission alone, we also get a pretty terrific plot line. We have Stephen Lang, Michael Rossi, Dr. Peter Corbeau and others, with everyone having their own motivations and reasons for doing what they do. This building sense of competing actors helps advance the plot every step of the way.

Meanwhile, so much happens with the X-Men themselves that you’re just wrapped right up in it. You have Professor Xavier getting to be involved more than usual; Cyclops conflicting with the whole rest of the team; Jean Grey in action; hints of Storm’s claustrophobia again; hints of Wolverine’s rage; and so on and so on. The very first hints of Wolverine having a thing for Jean are dropped, and the brief subplot of a Storm & Colossus romance is played up as well.

On top of all of this, the story opens up in #98 with a terrific Christmas setting in NYC that allows for maximum characterization that is built on thereafter; this includes Cockrum having an all-around fun time with cameo after cameo in the background (never caught Julie Schwartz until this read). We even get the very quick introduction of Amanda Sefton, a character I’ve always loved.

There are more firsts as well: Wolverine revealed without a mask; later revealed that the claws are not part of his costume. Xavier’s incredible government clearance meaning there is more to his intelligence ties that ever thought. The first mention of Colossus’ brother Mikhail, the tragic cosmonaut. Nightcrawler using the image of Errol Flynn, which was another way Cockrum showcased his idea of who Kurt is. And best of all: in #100 we get for the very first time, the Fastball Special! Each character, from Nightcrawler to Banshee to Colossus, etc., get a chance to show some facet of their personality that we previously didn’t know about or was only hinted at.

With this story, Claremont also returned the series to its most central theme—and the theme that would now make the X-Men rise in popularity to surpass all others—the idea of being an outcast because you’re different. Thus far, this was only briefly hinted at in Giant-Sized #1 but then relatively skimmed over. With the Sentinels it becomes front and center again and will stay that way. That is really the case for any Sentinels story which is why they sometimes seem so one-note. The way you get around that? With #100 you replace the Sentinels with robot versions of the original X-Men which allows you to naturally continue the plot but address the ultimate question hanging out there since the end of Giant-Sized: what would happen if the originals battled the all-new, all different?

AND…to top it all off…the ending is nothing short of superb!! Where today there would be a 1-panel due ex machina to get the heroes back on-planet, with the X-Men ever victory has to be earned and thus they are face great peril as they try to get back to Earth. It’s up to Jean, ready to make the ultimate sacrifice—even willing to knock out Cyclops to do it. And then she does it! And from there…the Phoenix rises in her place! As depicted by Cocrkum it is incredibly dramatic and yet so incredibly grandiose. And while the Phoenix is only vaguely hinted at, you know that something is not quite right here.

Honestly, how can anyone not love this story? If I was told that there would never be stories like this in comics anymore and that the era had passed, I think that would be enough for me to quit reading them all together. These are the stories that made people love superheroes and comic books in general.

Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798400 01/08/14 09:35 AM
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Also, hope no one feels rushed by my posting the next round of reviews. I do plan on taking it slow, and plan on not reading / reviewing the next story arc until I get everyone else's thoughts. I'm more interested in going at a nice leisurely pace.

And Lardy, FYI, I'm also rereading the first 6 trades of Scalped, and then will at long last read the final three trades of Scalped. I just started this morning, as this will be what I'm reading on the train everyday in January.

Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Cobalt Kid #798428 01/08/14 05:08 PM
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I'm not too far behind ya on this re-read project. I've read thru 99 so far and hope to read another 2 issues tonight to complete this arc. I figure we can read at whatever pace works for us individually but trying not to read too fast. That way we aren't too terribly far ahead of the others and our thoughts on it are as fresh as possible. In any case, I'm pretty sure GS 1 thru 95 at least are put to bed, and the time was right to move to the batch you covered. Fickles may only be reading on the weekends (if I'm correct), so keep that in mind until/unless she says differently.

Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid
And Lardy, FYI, I'm also rereading the first 6 trades of Scalped, and then will at long last read the final three trades of Scalped. I just started this morning, as this will be what I'm reading on the train everyday in January.


FINALLY! nod I thought you'd NEVER frickin' get to it!!! mad

grin


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798432 01/08/14 05:57 PM
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Lardy, I've decided to re-read one issue every weekday, and post about all five of them on weekends. So by this weekend, I'll be up to #100.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

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- Legion World member HARBINGER
Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798440 01/08/14 06:56 PM
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Cool! I'm likely to read 100 and possibly 101 this evening!


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Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798441 01/08/14 07:33 PM
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A Newsarama reviewer gave the first issue an 8 out of 10 in a very enthusiastic write-up. Find the review toward the bottom of this article.

^ Oops! Posted to wrong thread! blush

Last edited by Paladin; 01/09/14 10:58 PM.

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Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798503 01/09/14 10:26 PM
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Let me know if you need any commentary on Russian/Soviet history and culture in terms of Colossus. I studied it for fun when I was a teenager; and I do blame the "Anastasia" movie for my interest in Russian stuff. What I don't know, I can ask of others.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798528 01/10/14 05:52 PM
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X-Men 97

This one's really notable especially for the extensive tease of the upcoming Shi'ar storyline as we are treated to a beautiful montage showcasing Cockrum's unusual striking designs for the starships involved in the conflict. All of this through Professor X's "dreams" that cause him to feel as if he's losing his mind. And of course the sequence ends with a tease of a character who will become very important to Xavier.

All of this, to me, is perhaps Cockrum's biggest contribution to the All-New, All Different mythos beyond his hand in he creation of the iconic new members. The Shi'ar and the Starjammers have Cockrum's stamp all over them, and they are as much his legacy as Colossus, Nightcrawler and Storm. It's a pleasure to be experiencing this contribution from the beginning again.

The main story that follows is a little more humdrum, though. We're left with a mystery that won't be resolved for a while, leaving Havok and Polaris hanging (which is a state they will be in for many years, one way or another).

At first, the memory was foggy, and I thought this situation somehow dovetailed into the Sentinels story that continues to build here and is to immediately follow. But Havok, Polaris and Eric the Red are missing from that particular milieu. Honestly, I can't even remember who Eric the Red really is (or what his deal is since I'm not sure if his identity is important) since I haven't read the follow-up story since I first read it in the Classic X-Men reprint series in the '80s. While I'm tempted to just look it up in Wikipedia, I'll be content to wait for that info to appear organically in this re-read.

That was a nice costume Cockrum designed for Polaris, though! Too bad it wasn't used all that much, though.


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Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798530 01/10/14 05:58 PM
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Yeah, Cockrum was wonderful at the space opera stuff. And it was great seeing him stretch his wings without the space limitations he had to deal with in most of the Legion stories he did.

The Polaris/Havok/Eric the Red loose end was annoying to me. Loose ends that took forever to get resolved were always one of Claremont's biggest flaws as a writer, even at this early stage.

And I, personally, prefer the Steranko Polaris costume to the Cockrum one, which is weird because I generally love Cockrum's costumes.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

"Don't look for role models, girls, BE the role model."

- Legion World member HARBINGER
Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798532 01/10/14 06:03 PM
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I like the original green costume, too, funny enough! They're two costumes that should've gotten more use! Lorna should have stayed in the green, and the Cockrum costume would've been great for a mystical character--it would've been nice for Clea actually....


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Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798534 01/10/14 06:06 PM
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Ooh, Clea would have looked great in that costume!


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

"Don't look for role models, girls, BE the role model."

- Legion World member HARBINGER
Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798535 01/10/14 06:33 PM
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X-Men 98

This issue has a lot of things I tend to like in an X-Men comic: the team hanging out in civilian clothes (or holograms) doing regular things like hanging out around Rockefeller Center around Christmas, battles with the Sentinels which almost never lack in spectacle and drama, the inclusion of interesting NPCs like Peter Corbeau and Amanda Sefton (I wondered if that was her, Cobie, before you said something--but shouldn't Kurt have recognized her?) and some interesting interaction between the teammates (especially Logan and Jean and the ripped dress and Kurt and Peter flirting with the ladies).

As Cobie mentions, we finally see Logan sans mask for the first time. His look simultaneously softens and hardens over the years, but there's your blueprint for one of the most iconic characters in comics. Re-reading these issues, I never thought back to how the claws were briefly thought to be accessories, rather than a part of him. This issue builds his mystique further with these additions. There is still much to learn about his powers an physiology in upcoming issues and beyond. I also like how Lang's beating of Jean is what sets Logan off. It'll be interesting to see more of the Logan-Jean dynamic in stories to come.

It's also nice to see how big a part Banshee plays in these early stories before he's written out before too long. I find myself reading his scenes a lot and savoring them. I can't say that Sean is one of my favorites or that he's really an essential X-Man, but he is kind of a "comfort food" character in the mythos. I'll definitely enjoy him while he's still around as a regular.


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Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798548 01/10/14 10:14 PM
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X-Men 99

One thing I forgot to mention in the above review is that 98 was the first cover in the new X-Men run to feature Cockrum as the artist (or primary artist). This was news to me as I'd always assumed he drew them beginning with GS 1. But Gil Kane had done most of the covers (including GS 1) to this point with Rich Buckler and Sal Buscema doing 96 and 97. But what a GREAT cover run Cockrum has going once he starts! Feast your eyes on these gorgeous covers to 98 and 99:

[Linked Image][Linked Image]

I know, right? nod (sorry for the inexplicable size discrepancy shrug )

Of these two, 99 is my favorite. It's just such a cool image with the colors, figures and everything just working really well.

I love how the X-Men don't have some pre-existing method of space travel and need Corbeau to get them aboard a space shuttle under the guise of astronauts to access SHIELD's orbital platform. It's a little melodramatically presented, but showing more of Storm's claustrophobia and Colossus' extreme anxiety about what happened to his brother come into play is good character development on Claremont's part.

You've gotta wonder, though, why the supposed mutant-killing Sentinels rescue Banshee, Jean and Logan while they're floating in space. I found the same problem in portions of the Thomas/Adams story during their run on the original team. I think a throwaway line somewhere shows that Lang wants to study them before killing them, but this is a recurring problem in Sentinel stories until Claremont and Byrne cut out all the BS and make them terrifyingly efficient killers in Days of Future Past.

Stephen Lang is somewhat disappointing in his hand-wringing one-dimensional villainy. I missed the Trasks in comparison. I was wondering about Larry Trask specifically and a line about both Trasks being dead. Then, I learned that Larry was killed between the old X-Men's cancellation and the formation of the new X-Men in a story that appeared in the Avengers in the interim that I've never read. Larry Trask being a mutant was an interesting twist, and I would've like to have seen that make it to Claremont's story.

Storm's ability to control "the cosmic storm" was an eyebrow raiser, for sure. I wonder if that was ever revisited because it feels like a one-off best forgotten. Peter's continued infatuation with her is still an interesting thing to see knowing it doesn't go anywhere.

Seeing Cyke losing it and severely bruising Lang's face is interesting. We're sure going to see him face some extreme emotions during Claremont's run with him......


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Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798552 01/11/14 12:08 AM
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X-Men 100

So this big, but not extra-sized anniversary issue teases what would happen if the original X-Men fought the A-N, A-D X-Men. Emphasis on teases because the originals turn out to be not what they appear to be. I'm not sure we ever really get this exchange unless something like it shows up when the originals form X-Factor. Even then, it would never be this exact classic line-up that replaced them versus the originals. It's good, I suppose, that the obvious cliché was avoided, but it's a little disappointing, nevertheless. I suppose this is a nice enough approximation.

But one thing we DO get in this exchange is a beautiful Cockrum double-page spread that I lingered on for quite some time, just as I have during prior re-reads of this issue. It's just a well-constructed image, packed to the gills with action and detail. There've been many great ones over the years, and I'd rank this among the best. I especially appreciate that all the details are sharp and in-focus and that all of the characters are rendered so spot-on. (Plus, you gotta love Wolvie getting a snowball in the face! lol ) If I had a Cockrum portfolio, this spread would be the centerpiece!

I love Cockrum's rendering of Jean Grey here, both in her Marvel Girl outfit as the fake and especially those climactic pages setting up a cliffhanger. (Can you BELIEVE Masterworks Vol. 1 ended with issue 100?!?) In that panel where she knows what she has to do to save them all, Cockrum NAILS her grim determination! Love how she puts Cyke down before he can intervene, then how she barks at Wolvie before getting tearful with Storm. Just hands-down perfect execution by Cockrum.

As Cobie, noted, we get the first fastball special this issue. We also see Wolverine using his enhanced senses to ferret out what's up with their opponents, a possible first reference to his animal-like senses or at least the first that jumped out to me in this run. In his inimitable fashion, he creates a momentary shock to make it look like he's gone over the edge.

Seriously, why end this volume of Masterworks on such a cliffhanger? Oh well, ending it with 101 would have left the Black Tom/Juggernaut story hanging, too! grin Claremont and his peers definitely didn't write for the trade! (Of course, there was no "trade" program to speak of back then.... wink )


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Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798569 01/11/14 09:47 AM
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Lardy, Cobie, enjoying your reviews very much. I'll be adding my own 2 cents later this weekend.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

"Don't look for role models, girls, BE the role model."

- Legion World member HARBINGER
Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798625 01/12/14 02:23 AM
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X-Men 101

First things first: That cover!

[Linked Image]

Absolutely iconic!

Look now at how Marvel recolored it in a painterly fashion for the Masterworks edition I'm using for this batch of stories:

[Linked Image]

Beautiful, isn't it? I love how Marvel has done those covers for their more recent Masterworks printings!

So the Phoenix rises from the ashes! And we see enough of her to know there's something different about Jean Grey. But, frustratingly, we get little more than a tease here, showing how Claremont is already laying the seeds of an amazing epic that will not end for 36 issues and nearly 4 years real time.

Jean passes out moments after her 'rebirth', and her teammates hold a vigil. Wolverine brings flowers but quickly discards them when he realizes everyone is there.

But my favorite moment of the issue is when Scott breaks down in tears, overcome by emotion and relief when he learns Jean will live. It's so refreshing to see a Cyclops who is human, in love and capable of showing a softer side. Marvel has just destroyed his character over the last decade. To me, this is the real Scott Summers, and the one who populates today's Marvel universe is a pale shadow. And that moment where Kurt witnesses it and respects his leader's privacy is touching.

It's weird to read the end of 100 and the beginning of 101 knowing how various Marvel creators will eventually get together and use something that "happened" between those panels to explain how the woman who rises from the bay wasn't really Jean Grey and that the "real" one actually still lies underneath healing in a cocoon. It's actually hard for me. As a teenager in high school, I thought it was wrong even then. How do you undo one of the most iconically perfect comics stories ever made? Worse, it would be among the first instances in a trend that's just become laughable in the last decade so that to kill off characters is nothing more than a sales gimmick and their return simply inevitable.

I begrudgingly admit that the ret-con was borderline ingenious, but it taints the purity, brilliance and wonder of the great stories to follow. And the longterm implications to the way the Big Two basically put Intellectual Property above meaningful and lasting stories is heart-breaking. I'm trying to re-read these stories for the great part of comics history they are, but there remains a pang deep down for what's been lost in the decades since.

<steps down from soapbox>

So the remainder of the issue transitions to a new storyline, one hinted at in prior issues that stems from Banshee's backstory. We're introduced to Black Tom, who is Claremont's first significant villain creation, who is paired with classic X-villain Juggernaut. Tom and Juggy will be associated with each other for a while to come and make a pretty entertaining duo.

But once again, it's another opportunity for the X-Men to spend their downtime together. Kurt and Peter even seem to be competing for Ororo's attention! Love Wolverine going all Texas-style including the bolo tie! Banshee dressing down! Peter with a too-short tie! Ororo in a kimono! And Kurt once again favoring a certain hologram!

Just tons of personal touches to go around that will come to characterize what we love about Claremont's classic run. What's next.....the X-Men playing a baseball game? wink

They just don't make comics quite like this one anymore! Ironically, "X-Men 101" is like a class in what made this run of X-Men work so well!


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798652 01/12/14 03:06 PM
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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X-Men 96-100

Firstly, Cockrum is ON FIRE in these issues! I think that, with a couple of exceptions (X-Men 107 and the Futurians graphic novel), he would never be quite this good again.

We meet Moira, who I always loved.

We see Wolverine's real face, and I, for one, wish it had been young and handsome instead of old and weathered. As I said before, I much preferred the idea of Sean as the older member with a past.

I agree with Lardy that Lang was a one-dimensional pantomime villain, but even so, he's such a bastard that I wish we'd had more panels of Cyclops beating him up.

Speaking of more panels, it's worth noting that the friendship between Jean (who is awesome in these issues and will get more so in subsequent ones) and Storm is more of a case of "tell" than "show", because comics were in their 17-page phase.

The humanoid Sentinels were a great concept that doesn't quite come off. How the hell do you give a robot psionic powers? And if they could somehow replicate Jean's powers, why not Xavier's? One of the few (maybe the only) of Claremont's worthwhile post-1991 contributions to X-canon was a variation on this concept, Karima Shapandar, although in my opinion it was Mike Carey who refined the character into something viable.

Overall, Claremont is, at this stage, showing himself to be a natural talent whose style arrived fully formed. Sadly, because of the praise heaped upon him, he would never quite master certain writerly disciplines, and his flaws would become more prominent several years down the line. For now, though, the X-Men is still pure pleasure.


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Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798654 01/12/14 03:50 PM
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Some great comic reading memories breathed into life by the X-Men rereading posts...

...I remember how much I loved Storm, Colossus and Nightcrawler from their introduction, though that love hasn't necessarily stood the test of time for all of them.

...I remember how disappointed I was that most of the original X-Men left right after the Krakoa rescue. Particularly Havok and Polaris, who got storyline crap for decades after this. I did like that eventually, we found out about their doctoral studies, but in subsequent years, it's almost laughable that the only X-men with advanced academic study (other than Beast, I suppose) are kept far away from the two mutant schools presently in story. Par for their course

... I was greatly intrigued by Count Nefaria's Ani-men, or at least by one of them... the intriguing Dragonfly. Why she hasn't been used since is beyond me. One of my comic book lapses in knowledge is that it was decades before I connected Count Nefaria with Madame Masque. I'd love to see her appear with a mix of new/old Ani-men, perhaps with a shades-of-grey motivation.

... I have a bit of Native American blood in my family, so I was disappointed that the American Indian was the one that died- though it has been more than a little bit crucial in the long story of the mutants.

... The original X-men leaving kept me from fully embracing the comics as they were released way back when. It wasn't until the great scene of Scott Summers and Jean Grey's date near Rockefeller Plaza at Christmas time (due to Cockrum's art, mostly) that I gave in and really liked the ongoing title again.

...I love the insight about Claremont using elements of the Roy Thomas/Neal Adams issues as background to build upon. The Wein/Claremont stories are largely spoken about as breaking into new ground, mainly because of all the new characters, but the recent past really was evoked.

...I loved Krakoa, though! I think it's a perfect comic book kind of antagonist- fun and imaginatiave, though hardly realistic. I'm kind of in love with the fact that the 'descendant of Krakoa' is now an X-man, or at least a student.

Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Fanfic Lady #798655 01/12/14 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
The humanoid Sentinels were a great concept that doesn't quite come off.


Yeah, they were pretty underwhelming. Why Lang thought they could kill the X-Men is beyond me. shrug

Obviously, it was done to deliver a fight that fans probably wanted to see. Plus, Cockrum got to give us that great 2-page spread I mentioned. We also got his take on classic Beast and another look at his sensational take on the Marvel Girl costume. Smaller, more human Sentinels would eventually make a comeback. but there was, and still is, potential in the concept as shown here that has never been delivered.

Oh well....at least we can be thankful that the eventual explanation for Jean's resurrection wasn't that Phoenix was the X-Sentinel! grin nod



Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798656 01/12/14 04:21 PM
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Mystery Lad, thanks for adding some thoughts! Everyone has an open invitation to join the re-read and/or chime in as often as you like! nod


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798657 01/12/14 04:31 PM
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Oddly enough, btw, I was trying to figure out where I posted a previous review I did of Masterworks Vol. 1, which reprints GS 1 thru X-Men 100) on LW (prior to the creation of this thread, to see what I said about it, but I couldn't find it anywhere! I don't know which thread I posted it in, but I could SWEAR I did a write-up on it! Am I imagining this, or does anyone else remember reading it? I recall praising the 2-page spread from 100 in said review as well, for example. confused


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Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798660 01/12/14 05:29 PM
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Re: X-Men 100. My standout memory is Wolverine's proclamation: "I've met the enemy, bub--and it ain't us!" (or words to that effect).

During this time, it was indeed Wolvie who stood out as the most interesting, most complex, and most unpredictable character. He had just skewered Marvel Girl! (Or so we think it's Marvel Girl until we turn the page.) Even though he's just told us his sense of smell has given him a clue to his antagonist's true identity, there was still that moment of doubt, reflected in the astonished faces of the other New X-Men ("Wolverine . . . what have you done?" one of them says, to which Wolvie's line above is a rejoinder). Is this guy even a hero?

But, yes, as we turn the page we see that he is indeed a hero who took the chance no one else dared because of their feelings for the original X-team. Their love and/or admiration for their predecessors held them back, but not Wolvie. He had to overcome his own developing feelings for Jean to see the X-Sentinel version for what it truly was--and he was willing to risk being branded a psycho to save the day.

For awhile, Wolvie was my favorite character--and the scene in 101 of him pitching the flowers in the trash clinched it (he wasn't quite ready to reveal his human, caring side to the team)--but he was soon supplanted by Kurt, who was a much more fun character, who didn't dwell in angst over his mutant appearance, and who, besides, spoke German! (In 101, upon seeing Cassidy Keep, Kurt exclaims "Unglaublich!" ("Unbelievable!"), which I had to look up. I've always appreciated it that the editor didn't deem it necessary to translate German or Russian words in footnotes, like most editors would. The untranslated words added to the realism and respected readers' intelligence to figure out the context.)

It seems that what I remember most about these early issues are scenes of character development and snatches of dialogue. In previous posts, Cockrum has been justly praised for his contributions, but Claremont deserves an equal amount of credit. He infused the New X-Men with memorable personalities and dialogue that made you feel you knew these people and wanted to be them in spite of their strangeness. That takes some skill as a writer.



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Re: Re-Reads (currently discussing Moore's Swamp Thing run & Sandman Mystery Theatre)
Lard Lad #798661 01/12/14 05:59 PM
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Bold Flavors
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I enjoy reading about how you guys felt when you first read these issues and how that has changed over the years. It's as fun as reading them!

Following something Lardy said, in referencing the fact that hereafter the Jean we we're seeing is later retconned to not really being Jean: I just can't read it that way. To me, the Jean in 101-138 is the real Jean, as the then writers intended. That's partly why retcons can never really be 100% successful, when the source material is so effective as it is.

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