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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #822973 09/29/14 10:23 PM
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Avengers 349 (July 1992)
“Death Wager”

Summary
While joyriding with Hercules and Crystal in a skycar, The Black Knight loses control of the vehicle and is forced into an emergency landing. Dane suspects that the same energy signature found at Melissa Darrow’s apartment is responsible.

On Olympus, Ares seethes with rage that his half-brother, Hercules, has found comradeship with the Avengers. Ares makes a wager with Hera that one of them can destroy Hercules by breaking his heart.

Hercules, Crystal, and Thor II accept an invitation to visit children at a hospital. During the fun, Ares enters Thor’s body and attacks Hercules, intent on making Hercules kill his new friend. After their fight has laid waste to much of the hospital grounds and endangered a child and a volunteer, Hercules realizes Ares is responsible. By forcing Thor to tap Mjolnir on the ground and assisted by Crystal, Hercules is able to summon enough lightning to separate Ares from Thor.

As Ares returns defeated to Olympus, Hera reveals that her part of the wager involves Hercules becoming involved with the hospital volunteer, Taylor Madison.

Thoughts
It’s good to see Herc get to do something other than spout off bad archaic English and act like an impulsive six-year-old. Of course, it does take him awhile to realize Ares/Thor is calling him by his Greek name, Herakles, but at least Herc shows he has some smarts by using his knowledge of Thor’s hammer and Crystal’s power to save the day.

This is a fairly good story that accomplishes what it set out to do. It starts a new plotline involving Hercules (who must surely be runner up to Natasha for Most Superfluous Avenger during this run). The story has a good beginning, middle, and end, and plays well off of various characters’ established relationships.

My major complaint with the story has little to do with Harras’s development of the story, but rather with the hackneyed usage of Ares and Hera. Whenever god-like characters cause indiscriminate havoc in the Marvel Universe, I feel a huge yawn coming on. Nothing can really be done with these characters—they can’t be punished or driven away for good; they can’t be reasoned with, and they can’t even change. The depiction of both Ares and Hera in this story illustrates this point. They have been trying to defeat Hercules since forever because they still can’t reconcile to the half-human demi-god being a favorite of Zeus. While gods can afford to hold grudges forever, it takes a toll of boredom on this human reader.

The story also indulges in obvious emotional manipulation. In film classes I took, it was said that the cheapest form of emotional manipulation is to put a child in danger. That certainly happens here, as six-year-old Bradley goes back to the battle scene for his teddy bear. For good measure, Taylor Madison goes back after Bradley and puts herself in danger, as well.

But, given those tropes, the story is competently told and expertly rendered by Epting/Palmer. The panel of Thor smashing Hercules in the back of the head with Mjolnir is as shocking as it is intended to be.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823027 09/30/14 02:21 PM
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Avengers #349
While Herc getting thumped is no surprise, Thor's also attacked Crystal on the cover.

Inside Dane Whitman is endangering pedestrians from falling Avengers by mucking about in a skycar. None are wearing seatbelts, so I've no idea how Hercules manages to stay inside.

Having stress tested the Skycar, Dane is mystified when something goes wrong with it. Obviously, it must have been tampered with. Of course, it couldn't be Dane's irresponsible piloting.

Having seen that the use of his physics defying power comes at a cost of some wounds, tow Olympian Gods decide to drop a subplot into the book. It's pretty blunt. We're bored-let's mess with Hercules is about as deep as it gets.

Dane makes a connection between a faulty sky car and their run in with the Swordsman. Not through any deductive logic or intuitive hunch. It's simply the only other subplot, so it must be that.

Both Dane and Vision make a point to avoid being near Crystal, and so the group from the cover end up being the ones going to visit a hospital for sick kids.

I wouldn't have needed the cover to know that something's going to put them in danger. I'm awaiting the visit to the old folks home where we could hear tributes to the team like:-

"Call yourselves Avengers? Why back in my day..."
"Herc! Stop swinging that guy around. You've wrecked his hip replacement."
"You're blocking the TV! Beat it you wrestling rejects!"

Hercules cheers the sick kids up by dangling them from his arms, and referring to them as "you mortals." But everyone is having a happy day. Which is when Alt-Thor is possessed by Ares.

I'm actually a little peeved at a god from one pantheon taking over the representative of another. I'm hoping Odin shows up to kick Ares butt in a Marvel version of War of the Gods. But better, as it would have to be. The switch from "Hercules" to "Herakles" is a nice touch.

To be fair to Herc, he figures things out during the battle and comes up with a quick solution. Unlike the other Olympians, he has used his time on Earth to learn about other cultures. Here, it's his knowledge of Thor that wins the battle. It all seems to be over a little quickly though. I was expecting this to be more of an ongoing subplot with Areas and Hera toying with him. The last panel shows that Hera is going to do just that.

The only problem I see here, is that Herc already knows that Ares and Hera are up to no good. I wonder how long it will take to connect problems in his own life with Hera.

It's an issue that gets a bit better as it goes on. Herc finally gets some TLC. There's a light touch on Dane/Crystal/Vision relationships and Hera's final panel is a good one.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823042 09/30/14 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
The story also indulges in obvious emotional manipulation. In film classes I took, it was said that the cheapest form of emotional manipulation is to put a child in danger. That certainly happens here, as six-year-old Bradley goes back to the battle scene for his teddy bear. For good measure, Taylor Madison goes back after Bradley and puts herself in danger, as well.


I don't think Harras was being as cynical as you appear to think. And even IF he was, I think Epting & Palmer's art is sincere enough to rise above any cynicism in the script.


Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
...expertly rendered by Epting/Palmer. The panel of Thor smashing Hercules in the back of the head with Mjolnir is as shocking as it is intended to be.


Agreed. And I think the perfect artistic counterpoint to that image is the image of Crystal in the panel where she asks Dane to come with her, Thor Substitute, and Herk. She looks so genuinely sweet-natured in her facial expression and body language.



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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823059 09/30/14 08:40 PM
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"Cynical" isn't the word I would use, Fanfie. "Cheap," maybe . . . smile



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Re: The All Avengers Thread
thoth lad #823060 09/30/14 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by thothkins
Avengers #349

Having stress tested the Skycar, Dane is mystified when something goes wrong with it. Obviously, it must have been tampered with. Of course, it couldn't be Dane's irresponsible piloting.



Y'know super-heroes get away with an awful lot. The landing causes untold damage to the terrain, and then there's the hospital being torn up. Tony Stark must have gone bankrupt several times over paying for the Avengers' liability insurance.

In a perverse sort of way, I love the idea of Dane being an irresponsible driver. These guys are the rock stars of the Marvel Universe, and, like many rock stars, their behavior often appears irresponsible. They get away with things just because they can.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823131 10/01/14 01:53 PM
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Officer: Well, that makes 50 traffic violations and damage to property offenses Mr Whitman.
Black Knight: Hey man, I'm an Avenger!
Officer: It would have been more, but none of us mere mortals get Skycars, so we haven't got round to having laws for them yet.
Black Knight: Clearly someone tampered with it, man!
Officer: And who would that be, Mr Whitman? The Villain Dr Cocktail, judging by the empty bottles in the back there?
Black Knight: No! It was...um...Swordsman and the double of the woman we were stalking.
Officer: Stalking Mr Whitman?
Black Knight: Yeah, the Swordsman! We met him in a totally unconnected way months ago. Yeah, it must have been him.
Officer: And just who is this Swordsman, Mr Whitman?
Black Knight: You know! He runs around with a deadly medieval weapon in the city center, just like me.
Officer: I'm sure you can tell us all about it down at the station, Sir. Come along.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
He Who Wanders #823144 10/01/14 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
"Cynical" isn't the word I would use, Fanfie. "Cheap," maybe . . . smile



Fair enough. And either way, I think that the sensitivity and sincerity of Epting & Palmer art carries the script.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823232 10/02/14 08:12 AM
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Oh, I'll agree that the artwork is beautiful, but I don't think the art should ever "carry" the script. Art enhances the script. It brings out qualities only hinted at in the story. At best, comic book art is an equal partner in story telling; together, the writing and the art transcend what either of them separately can accomplish.

But when great art is saddled with poor writing, it's like dressing for a job interview but lugging around a troll on your back. That winning smile and neatly coiffed hair will only get you so far.



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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823234 10/02/14 08:12 AM
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^thoth: laugh


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
He Who Wanders #823422 10/03/14 09:53 PM
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These last few days, I've been ruminating over this:

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Originally Posted by thothkins
Avengers #349

Having stress tested the Skycar, Dane is mystified when something goes wrong with it. Obviously, it must have been tampered with. Of course, it couldn't be Dane's irresponsible piloting.



Y'know super-heroes get away with an awful lot. The landing causes untold damage to the terrain, and then there's the hospital being torn up. Tony Stark must have gone bankrupt several times over paying for the Avengers' liability insurance.

In a perverse sort of way, I love the idea of Dane being an irresponsible driver. These guys are the rock stars of the Marvel Universe, and, like many rock stars, their behavior often appears irresponsible. They get away with things just because they can.


I think your rock-star comparison is apt, He Who. I was eighteen when I started reading Avengers, and the ugly truth about rock stars was all the rage of the tabloids, while the mall-ternative rock stars were whining about fame and striking cheesy punk-rock poses. So superheroes fulfilled my rock-star fantasies. All of the decadence with none of the ugliness.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823429 10/03/14 10:44 PM
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I can relate, Fanfie.

I started following American Top 40 when I was 16, and that show presented a somewhat sanitized version of pop music. It was easy to imagine that rock stars were all just one big happy family and that they had hits, became legends, made lots of money, and lived a free lifestyle, untethered by normal concerns such as paying the bills, doing well on tests, and obeying parents. smile

The Avengers and the Legion were the comic book equivalent of all that. In fact, since the Avengers underwent so many lineup changes, they were very similar to most rock bands. I think my interest in groups such as Jefferson Airplane/Starship, Fairport Convention, Yes, and Fleetwood Mac ties directly into the fact that each of these groups underwent extensive personnel changes while still managing to remain successful.

However, the "dark" side of rock 'n' roll didn't come out to me at first. I learned that John Lennon had left his wife, Cynthia, for another woman, Yoko. In my Midwestern upbringing, that was definitely a no-no. Yet I had to reconcile that upbringing with the fact that Lennon was one-quarter of the most beloved band of all time. Plus, he was intensely devoted to Yoko, so how does that reconcile with what I was taught about sin?

(And then, after Lennon's tragic murder in 1980, he become lionized. It's hard to pass judgment on a rock 'n' roll saint.)

Coming of age in the late '70s and early '80s, I became aware of the ex-Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, the Who, and most other classic rock stars long after their most excessive behavior was in the past, after they had presumably matured, and after some of their contemporaries (Brian Jones, Jim Morrison, et al.) had paid the ultimate price. There was a sense that the others had survived and emerged wiser (and richer).

In comic book terms, I drew parallels between the veteran rock stars and the veteran super-heroes, such as the Avengers. There was always a sense of security that the latter were on Top of the World as heroes: they had a mansion (and a butler!), were well-known and widely respected in the world, and basically got away with doing whatever they had to do to protect the world from the likes of Kang and the Zodiac. Who wouldn't want to live that kind of lifestyle: to be Important and to get whatever one needed and wanted?

Both rock 'n' roll and comics play upon these fantasies, and those fantasies work so long as we don't question them or scrutinize them. smile

I think in some ways this connection between comics and rock 'n' roll and the heroic and dark sides of super-heroes has helped me to prepare for and accept other things. I'm currently reading a book on Thomas Jefferson. There's no question that our third president was one of our greatest--the Louisiana Purchase alone cements his place is history. However, he also had numerous children with his slave--something that was just accepted and ignored in his day. Judging him does us no good in this day and age. But seeking to understand him and the times he lived in perhaps helps us to understand ourselves and our own lives a little better.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823454 10/04/14 08:36 AM
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Very insightful post, He Who, and I agree 100%. Thank you.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823691 10/05/14 01:30 PM
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Avengers 350-351 (Early Aug-Late Aug 1992)
“Repercussions” / “Retribution”

Summary
Hepzibah and Raza of the Starjammers strike a bargain with a former Kree admiral: In exchange for them killing the Black Knight as revenge for killing the Supreme Intelligence, the Kree will pay Hepzibah 200 million credits and tell Raza where to find his son, who was taken away to the slave pit years ago.

The two Starjammers contrive a reason for their team to travel to earth—to visit their former teammate, Binary, who is still recuperating from injuries at Avengers Mansion. When they arrive, the Avengers are meeting with Cyclops and Professor X of the X-Men. The Starjammers join in on the festivities, but Raza sneaks away to track down the Black Knight, who has likewise skipped the party to work out his feelings over Crystal.

Raza attacks the Knight, and the two swordsmen are evenly matched until Marilla, carrying Luna, stumbles onto the scene. Raza takes Luna hostage, prompting the Knight to sacrifice himself.

After Raza impales the Black Knight, the Avengers and their guests arrive on the scene. An enraged Hercules attacks Raza, and Ch’od rushes to defend his Starjammer teammate. Ch’od, carrying Raza, escapes.

The Inhumans’ royal physician and the Starjammer’s Sikorsky operate to save Dane’s life, while most of the Avengers, accompanied by Corsair and Binary, track down Ch’od and Raza. During the showdown which follows, Binary asks to speak to Raza alone. She learns the reason for his attempted murder of the Black Knight and convinces him to go along with a charade that the Kree were using mind control to guide his actions.

Meanwhile, Hepzibah tries to finish what Raza had started by poisoning the recovering Black Knight. She is caught in Dane’s room by the Black Widow and Crystal. Before the two Avengers can question her, the combined Avengers and Starjammers return.

Dane recovers, and the Starjammers depart with the warning to the Avengers that the Kree will not stop in their efforts to get revenge. Aboard the Starjammers’ craft, Raza tells Hepzibah he sees now sees the darkness in her soul but does not know what to do about it.

Thoughts
I have mixed feelings about this offering, which, in part, celebrates the Avengers 350th issue. As with most such anniversaries, this is a larger-than-normal sized issue with several extra features, including a back-up story, a diagram of Avengers Mansion, a gatefold cover featuring past Avengers covers, and a reprinted story. Of all these extra features, I liked the gatefold covers the most. The diagram was nice, but the rest felt like the consolation prizes contestants sometimes get at game shows: a rather cheap way of making them feel not so bad for losing.

I would rather have experienced the entirety of this two-part story in one issue instead of dragging it out needlessly, especially since the reprint (Avengers 53, featuring the Avengers battling the X-Men) has only tenuous connections to the present story. Cyke and Prof. X don’t really do anything in the present story, after all, and the Avengers team in the older story (Goliath, Wasp, Hawkeye, and the Black Panther) bears no resemblence to the current team. Only Cyclops and Quicksilver tie the two stories together, and Quicksilver has little to do in either.

But on to “Repercussions” and “Retribution.” Even though Harras offers little that is new in terms of ideas—the opening sequence in the alien bar reminded me of the first Star Wars movie—he develops what he does use quite well. Raza becomes a character I immediately sympathize with because he is in an impossible situation: kill the Knight or lose a chance of being reunited with his son. This sort of moral dilemma is rare in comics, but it presents us a chance to see how far a character will go, what lines he will and will not cross.

Unfortunately, Raza crosses every line imaginable, even taking a child hostage.

This part of the story is extremely well developed. In fact, my only complaint is that this becomes more of Raza’s story than the Black Knight’s. Once again, the Avengers are marginalized in their own book as other characters come to the fore. But that’s a minor complaint. It’s good to care about a character and to see how far that character will go when challenged in unimagineable ways. Dane, to his credit (?), never questions his actions—he immediately sacrifices himself for Luna. While we all know this is what a hero should do, it would be nice to have a bit of humanity and doubt in Dane Whitman as there is in Raza.

Unfortunately, the second part of the story degenerates into a fairly standard super-hero slugfest with Avengers and Starjammers taking sides. This reads like something one might expect in a story featuring medieval knights and castles instead of modern super-heroes. (Once again, Cyke and the Prof do nothing and are conveniently written out—they return to Xavier’s mansion to “help out on their end,” whatever that means.) I have nothing invested in the Starjammers and little familiarity with them beyond their first few appearances, so I have no way of gauging why they respond they way they do. But the Avengers are professional super-heroes who nevertheless lose control of the situation. Interestingly, no one seems to care about Dane bleeding all over the floor until Crystal says something.

Raza, meanwhile, feels bad about what he has done and admits to Ch’od he was wrong. But just when we’re on the verge of a major character revelation or transformation, the Avengers arrive to renew the conflict. Things go pretty much as expected until Corsair and Binary arrive, and Binary gets to the bottom of Raza’s actions.

Again, I have nothing invested in the Starjammers, so I don’t have strong feelings toward Carol’s actions. In some ways, I admire her loyalty to her friend; however, she breaks every ethical consideration imaginable by concocting a flimsy mind control alibi. This not only prevents the Avengers from learning the truth, but it also prevents Raza from fully coming to terms with his actions. He has essentially come to the point of no return—yet Harras gives him a point of return.

In other words, this is the sort of non-ending in which nothing truly happens and no one changes. Even the Black Knight fully recovers from an injury that would have likely paralyzed most of us mere mortals.

But the most disturbing aspect of this story is how the Black Widow and Crystal let Hepzibah off scot free. They are so conveniently distracted by the return of their teammates that they never question why Hepzibah was in Dane’s room in the first place.

So, this two-part story had a lot of promise and many exceptional scenes in the first part—the half-page panel of the Avengers, X-Men, and Starjammers gathered on p. 17 reminds me of a lot of similar scenes in the past: a good way of getting to know our heroes when they are just socializing. Harras also has time to stretch things out and develop various relationships, such as those between Crystal and Pietro, Crystal and Dane, and Dane and Sersi.

However, it all falls apart in the second issue when Harras pushed his characters to the brink of change and realized he probably could not go any further.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823693 10/05/14 01:40 PM
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Yeah, 351 can't hold a candle to 350. Even Epting couldn't have saved 351 if he'd drawn it.

But 350...OMG, I love that issue, it has such good Epting/Palmer art and so many nice character touches. I particularly love the exchange between C'hod and Thor Substitute:

C'hod: "Pigs in a blanket? What an appalling name for such a scrumptious delicacy."

Thor Substitute: "Did...did you just say 'scrumptious'?"

So even if this 2-parter didn't deliver in the end, I still love the first installment.

And I personally adore the Starjammers, if only because they were designed by Dave Cockrum. I had no problem with Raza becoming a borderline villain and Hepzibah becoming an out-and-out villainess.

It was also nice to see SOME repercussions to the killing expedition in 347.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823701 10/05/14 03:54 PM
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Avengers 350

Dashing space pirates with chest hair, wide collared shirts and sabres. Not one of my favourites. I started reading X-men when it was fairly gritty and dealing with mutant prejudice. Nothing would derail that more than appearance of brightly costumed space pirates.

So, with that said, here's #350 thoughts...
Despite the Star Wars trappings, we get some repercussions to Galactic Storm. It seems the Avengers made sure to let everyone know what was really going on, as it seems to be general knowledge that the Supreme Intelligence was behind it. A nice touch is that some choose not to believe it, and look at Deathbird's position as evidence. At least one of the Starjammers is happy to assassinate someone, although I think Raza may end up disappointed at how things turn out.

Hey, the story is even called "repercussions." I quite like seeing some cause and effect in comics, so even the ridiculous Cyclops costume isn't putting me off. There seems to be a decent reason for an X-Men guest spot. It doesn't always have to be a forced villain to get people to meet. It brings Pietro and Crystal together to discuss their marriage and push that subplot forward. Dane doesn't react well to this and it's up to the Rooftop Self Pity Spot that we've seen in quite a few issues now. We get Dane's feelings over his actions, and a better acknowledgment that Cap has left because of this.

Extra soap for the Sersi/ Dane smooch and suddenly two ships appear to tell Dane to put some clothes on. Also, to bring the Starjammers to visit. The speech patterns are a bit floral for my liking, but the pacing is quite good here.

Harras made sure that Dane's mood isolated him earlier in the issue. So, it's no surprise to see him alone in the hanger. There's certainly plenty of good reasons given for the fight itself. Luna's arrival was well timed with the others just far enough behind to miss the finale. But no blood around Dane?

So, a solid issue here. A mixture of the galactic and the personal. Some nice pick ups from Galactic Storm that I thought we'd never see.

From the covers, I remember buying #279. I liked the Buscema/ Palmer art on it. Yes, I did just look that up. I thought Alt-Thor was the Thor from #279 when I first saw him.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823702 10/05/14 03:56 PM
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Avengers 351

Having been a bit subdued last issue, Binary's cover appearance would suggest she's getting more involved this time round. Not a bad idea Since she's a link between all three teams
The art is a bit of a disappointment as early as the first panel.

Is it an in joke that Herc gets thumped every time? Widow does little as usual. Despite a pretty deadly looking wound, Dane's actually hanging in there. Hopefully the Durlan can cure him as the Legion come to visit. The guy's beard is actually Proty.

It's only natural that Crystal is worried about her comrade, but the Quicksilver panel makes him look needlessly suspicious.

The Avengers track down the Raza and Ch'od very easily. Perhaps they were helped by the written outProf X. If not, I imagine the Starjammers spend a lot of their own adventures failing to escape form prisons. I wonder if Thor will give up his hammer for an uzi next issue. It was certainly a surprising change of approach.

Raza should have taken his self pity to a roof if he wanted it work. As I only see them every now and again, I can only empathise so much with what they've been through. In between those panels, there are a few interesting things. Hercules congratulates Vision on displaying emotion. Something else else he's been actually doing for a while. Black Widow gets a bit of a sting this issue. She gets to use her skills, well a hunch, to suspect the other Starjammer.

But the big points are in the rather low key ending. Hepzibah gets away with her involvement in the plan. Widow might suspect her standing over Whitman but she can't act on it. I'd have liked to have seen more of Widow's reaction, if only coming to a decision on what to do. But having someone get away with it is a nice change.

Carol Danvers lied to the Avengers to protect Raza, even though Whitman was stabbed with a sword. Danvers gets away with it too. Finally we're left with the confirmation that the Avengers have a lot of enemies by killing off the Supreme Intelligence.

A downside is that we won't see the real impact on Raza in this book. This story will be a footnote to a later appearance, as he tries to track down his son. So, it's leaving a tale half done.

Herc looks sillier without the beard. Someone needs to give him an Avengers jacket soon.

I wonder how long it's going to take Dane to recover form being stabbed in the guts. I'd hope for at least a grimace or two next issue. Perhaps a panel of Jarvis putting Whitman's lower intestine in a bucket while mopping the hanger floor.

The big plus this issue was the number of character moments. Lies mixed well with loyalties, making the cast flawed and therefore much more interesting.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823704 10/05/14 04:04 PM
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Glad you seem to have enjoyed the character bits as much as I did, Thoth.

I love love Herc without the beard. As I said before, my favorite Herc Avengers story is in issues #47-50 of the Silver Age Avengers, and he's clean shaven there, too.

Re: Avengers #279, the whole Stern/Buscema/Palmer run is well worth owning. Most of it is in trades, but, frustratingly, several issues in the 260s remain uncollected, including two of my favorites, 262 and 264. Hopefully that'll change soon.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823705 10/05/14 04:13 PM
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Before I forget completely guys, I enjoyed the interesting posts on comic and rock and roll connections.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823706 10/05/14 04:15 PM
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Yeah, those rock & roll posts were great fun to write and to read.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823774 10/05/14 10:06 PM
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Quote
But the big points are in the rather low key ending. Hepzibah gets away with her involvement in the plan. Widow might suspect her standing over Whitman but she can't act on it. I'd have liked to have seen more of Widow's reaction, if only coming to a decision on what to do. But having someone get away with it is a nice change.


This is a good point: There wasn't a lot Natasha could do. However, I wish she had tried to do something.

When I play possible scenarios out in my head, I come up with the following:
--Natasha calls Hepzibah out and demands an explanation. This leads to Hepzibah lying through her teeth ("I was only concerned for the human!") or to her not being able to answer the question, which leads us to:
--Corsair (who has had nothing else to do in this story) objects to his lady love being questioned. This leads to a tense situation in which the Avengers decide not to pursue the matter but creates enmity between the Avengers and the Starjammers.
--Hepzibah breaks down and confesses that she wanted to kill the Knight. This leads her being arrested and thrown into an earth prison. The rest of the Starjammers are forced to confront her villainous side.
--The Starjammers rally to their teammate's side, and all hell breaks loose as the Starjammers escape earth, vowing never to return.

Frankly, any of these scenarios would have been more acceptable to me--though I understand that Marvel would never go for them. Bottom line, though, is that something would have changed, and the story would have held significant consequences.



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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #823850 10/06/14 01:50 PM
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I agree that your point about Harras pushing the characters to the brink, and no further works well with a number of those scenarios HWW.

I don't know to what extent the Starjammers were "on loan" from the X-Verse. I guess having them as fugitives, prisoners or exiles may have been vetoed or quickly undone elsewhere.

I can't imagine Dane, Crystal or Sersi liking Raza or Hepzibah any time soon, so I think there's some animosity already falling out from the issue. Having more would repeat the Starjammers warning to the Avengers but deny them possible grudging allies in a future story.

The first one seemed the most likely, but it was cut very short by the arrival of the others. I can only hope Widow knocks out Hepzibah as a "precautionary measure" the next time they meet.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #824145 10/08/14 05:18 PM
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Knowing that you guys are also reading the fill-ins, I forced myself to re-read the fill-in arc from 352-354. It's borderline indefensible, in my opinion. Juvenile, simplistic, and crude, with grating mis-characterizations. The closest it has to any redeeming qualities are a couple nice spotlights on Crystal's powers.

The saddest part is that it was written by a writer I usually love, Len Kaminski, who wrote the excellent Squadron Supreme: New World Order one-shot and had an early 90s run on Iron Man which I consider to be "my" Iron Man the same way I consider Harras/Epting's Avengers run to be "my" Avengers. Most likely his Avengers fill-in arc was a rush job.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #824175 10/08/14 07:30 PM
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Not much between despair and ecstacy
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Your assessment of "Fear the Reaper" pretty much sums up mine, Fanfie. I was just debating whether or not to do a full review. I probably will in a day or two just for the sake of completion. On the other hand, I may not. Hard as it may seem at times smile , I really don't like trashing comics in my reviews. I love to look for the positive. Unfortunately, I can't really think of anything positive about this three-part waste of newsprint (or whatever it's printed on). I think it's pretty much the definition of fanwank.


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #824179 10/08/14 07:34 PM
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LOL rotflmao

My sentiments exactly, He Who. Cheers. cheers


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Re: The All Avengers Thread
Fanfic Lady #824254 10/09/14 11:16 AM
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I remember "reading" Fear the Reaper once, and I put reading in quotations as I'm sure I never actually got through it. The less said about it, the better.

I know I'm way behind here, as I've been waiting basically until you got to #355. I'll say I've enjoyed your reviews though as you both have gotten to this point. What I love about the Harras issues leading here is by now he's clearly established Dane, Crystal, Sersi and the Vision, as well as Herc, with a firm grasp on each of their characters.

The Vision has already had more growth in the small number of Harras issues than he had in the previous few years (where fans had basically been writing in to say that the Vision was a "broken, unfixable" character). Harras began to change that, and in the coming issues, he outright resolves all problems and sets Vizh down a new road that isn't a retread...(which Kurt Busiek and George Perez basically ignore and reverse, sinking him into a nostalgia flight pattern, but I digress).

Hercules has begun to emerge, and the non-beard visual by Epting--clearly inspired by Big John in the Silver Age--helps differentiate him from what we've seen from him before. I think you'll also see him begin to mature as Taylor is more and more of a supporting character.

Of course, Crystal is the first of the Avengers that Harras truly writes great, and she remains so. Her relationship with Dane, and by extension Sersi, is already something that is simmering, and with the complications that pile up from #355 onwards, they will outright sizzle.

And yes, even the Black Widow will start to do more too--don't worry. Harras gets around to her last but he does get around to her. Beyond that, nice surprises are in store for a couple of Avengers who, at the time, weren't really Avengers anymore.

Last edited by Cobalt Kid; 10/09/14 11:21 AM.
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