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Who's Who in Raz's Legion? *added SUNSWORD 5 May*
by razsolo - 05/04/24 11:08 PM
The Non-Legion Comics Trivia Thread Pt 5
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by Chaim Mattis Keller - 05/04/24 08:21 PM
Legionnaire Mastermind
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Wheel of Fortune / Hangman Season 3
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Kill This Thread LI - Already???
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not just another Pantha's dismembered head thread...
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Would Kid Psycho be cooler...
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Re: The Big-Ass Pile o'Trades on the Coffee Table Next to My Recliner!
Lard Lad #854388 06/13/15 09:48 PM
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Well, I haven't read those introductions, but I'm sure Romita gained a great deal of satisfaction from helping turn Spidey into Marvel's most iconic and popular character. He has every right to be proud of what he accomplished, but I still believe the stories of him being unhappy at the time, and he certainly wouldn't be the first creator to do feel proud and positive with 20/20 hindsight.

Originally Posted by Paladin
I think that probably the main thing Romita improves over Ditko is the distinctive redesigns/tweaks he does on Peter and much of the supporting cast. Ditko was much more of an innovator and designer overall, but Romita excelled in bringing out the humanity in the non-costumes, something which, I'm sure, owes a lot to his history doing romance comics.


Agreed 100%. As great as the Ditko issues are, Romita brought some much-needed warmth to the book, evolving the soap-opera aspects like no creator had ever done before in a superhero comic.


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Re: The Big Pile o'Trades on the Coffee Table Next to My Recliner!
Lard Lad #854926 06/16/15 04:53 PM
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I'm in the mood to finally begin to catch up with some reviews of trades I've read in the past couple of months or so. Please forgive if they're not quite as extensive as some that I've done in the past. blush

First up is the second half (well, more like the latter two-thirds) of Star Wars: The Marvel Years Omnibus Vol. 1. To refresh your memory, here's my review of the first 17 issues contained therein:

Originally Posted by Paladin

Star Wars: The Marvel Years Omnibus Vol. 1 (collects Star Wars 1-44): Well, anyone who's been paying attention to my rants about the comics of my childhood shouldn't be surprised about my nostalgia for Marvel's original Star Wars series. The most pleasant surprise, though, in reading the first 300 pages of this handsome collection was really how well-crafted and entertaining these stories really were, especially with so much going against them.

What do I mean? Well, the actual film adaptation (comprised of the first six issues) of what would later be called "A New Hope" was completed without any of the creators seeing anything near the final cut of the film! I mean, Howard Chaykin and even writer Roy Thomas had to take some leaps of faith and do the best they had with what they got. What you get is an adaptation that feels much more like a comic book than a movie. A lot of the dialogue is a little off, and some scenes lack special detail. Plus, some of the iconic deleted scenes were still in the adaptation, including the legendary scenes with Luke and Biggs and the notorious Jabba the Hut (one "t") appearance as a bipedal green dude. But I love it! All of the narration and descriptions that deepen the context of the story make it, hands down, my favorite of any comics movie adaptation, especially because it's unapologetically a comic book!

Another thing interesting about the book after the movie adaptation is how little the creators had to go on to continue the story. As Thomas says in his intro, restrictions were put on the book by Lucasfilm, including their not being allowed to use Darth Vader (something they obviously would loosen their stance on eventually), to develop the Luke/Leia romance (and not being told why) or to delve into the Clone Wars as mentioned in some throwaway lines.

In truth, the post-movie stories do feel a bit off in tone. If you think about it, they didn't really have a lot to go on from just the one film. Though it did a great deal of world-building, the universe was still vastly unexplored and the characters mostly just scratching the surface. The next movie would go a long way toward expanding the scope and characters, but meanwhile, Marvel just kinda had to run with it as best they could. For me, that made for a fun and imaginative run from the get-go.

The first arc to follow the film adaptation in issues 7-10 is one that is often referenced, usually in a derisive manner, as an example of Marvel's supposed abuse of the franchise. Most often cited is the appearance of giant humanoid green Bugs Bunny-riff character Jaxon as part of Thomas and Chaykin's Seven Samurai riff with Han and Chewie at the center of the crusade. Well, I personally loved Jaxon as a kid and still love him during this rediscovery. The more egregious character in the group, to me, is the character of Don Won Kihotay, the apparently senile wannabe Jedi Knight. But even he becomes pretty cool as the story progresses and leaves me wanting more of survivors of the "Eight for Aduba" crew.

Beyond that, I like the arc for daring to focus pretty much entirely around Han and Chewie, leaving Luke, Leia and the droids entirely to brief subplot cameos. I thought it was interesting they had the pair immediately get their reward from the Rebellion ripped off by pirates and find themselves down and out on a backwater world--yet immediately finding a heroic purpose while still within their mercenary ways.

All of the Aduba Eight are fun, and when two of them are lost (though one loss is frustrating because his death or even any peril was not depicted clearly) and another almost lost, it's pretty affecting. Several of them are analogs for the missing members of the Star Wars cast, and it's interesting to see what effect Luke and the rest had on Han (who for all he knows, he may never see again) by proxy during their brief adventure.

The ending, in which there is a destructive third party called to intervene between Han's crew and the marauders, robs the story of some of it's gravitas and build-up. But it's nice to see more fantasy elements brought in, which would later become more prominent in the films.

The end of this second arc marks the departure of both Roy Thomas and Howard Chaykin. Roy, I think, gives way to a writer more suited to the book, Archie Goodwin. I lament the departure of Chaykin more because toward the end of his run, Tom Palmer joined him as inker, and I feel the book never looked better (at least early on) than it did with those two paired together. I certainly wish I'd seen more of them, at the very least!

The third arc (issues 11-15), imo, is really a superior arc. While searching for a new rebel base, Luke and the droids crash land on a water planet and are caught in a war between scavengers and dragon-riders who are descendants of some never-do-wells. It gets even more complicated when Leia gets captured by the same pirates that ripped off Han and Chewie's reward while looking for Luke. Han and Chewie run into the pirates and by extension Leia, and they trick the pirates into taking them all to Luke's last known location with the promise of rebel treasure. Eventually, all the characters come back together and face the triple-threat of all these factions in a very satisfying story. Honestly, if Lucas had done an Episode IV and a half, this would have made for a very entertaining movie! nod

The arc just seems so perfectly crafted that I'm surprised it doesn't get mentioned more in fandom. there are some great moments--like when Leia decks Han--that seem so appropriate and prescient of what would later happen. Goodwin, supposedly restricted from exploring Luke and Leia, seems to have run with the chemistry Leia and Han had. Han comes off as a bad-ass, the Princess aggressive and cunning and Luke capable of thinking on his feet with some logical extension of his desert farmboy upbringing--it makes sense that he can't swim! lol And it also has just the right dash of pathos in a character's passing and just a really deep backstory behind the water planet inhabitants.

The artist in residence on the arc and for some time to come is legendary Flash artist Carmine Infantino. In some ways his style here in a situation utilizing characters whose likenesses are based on real people is a little jarring. Chaykin rarely worried about the likenesses (though in some panels he's absolutely dead-on), but his style seemed to be more of a natural to the story. I think even as a kid, I noticed that Infantino's faces seemed, I dunno, a little angular for the characters. Something else else about how he draws Leia, especially. But as I read through the story, there's no denying Infantino's storytelling ability. And though he is an odder choice and less natural fit than Chaykin, I do overall like his work here. Certainly doesn't hurt that the child inside me recognizes the images and stirs the nostalgia.

I think it's wonderful that the series began with three extended arcs (including the film). It immediately marked the book as different from its superhero brethren at Marvel and really suited the epic nature of the property. I know from memory that there are more extended arcs to come and that Goodwin wouldn't be leaving any time soon. From what I'm reading and re-living here, that's definitely a good thing!

Next up, is the first true one-shot of the series, and it's a special treat as none other than Walt Simonson steps in for a guest pencil. Not only is it the first one-shot but it also is devoid of any of the principle characters, aside from some flashback montages! It features a bounty hunter, Valance, out to get Luke and the droids. Instead, he finds the survivors of the Aduba Eight crew, thinking that the characters who fought with Han were actually them. So we get the return of Jaxon and the others in a fine adventure (one last time unfortunately) and the likelihood that Valance will meet the real deals before long, after revealing a (fairly predictable, admittedly) secret Valance has behind his hatred of droids. It's a cool story reuniting Goodwin and Simonson, who created the iconic Manhunter stories for DC.

After that issue, I decided to suspend my reading of the Omnibus for a while. I enjoyed it thoroughly but wanted to savor the great epics I'd just read, knowing that there are more great epics to come. I'll pick up where I left off soon and look forward to doing so when the time is right.

I can honestly say that I enjoyed these stories a lot. I think that aside from the nostalgia, they are very entertaining on their own merits. They are fun, imaginative and memorable. Star Wars purists may scoff, but I'm as big a fan as there's ever been and don't. Honestly, I'm hard-pressed to think of Star Wars comics much better than these and am especially delighted to see stories of the universe not bound by the struggle with the Empire and/or evil Sith lords. It's damn fun space fantasy, and that's what Star Wars is at its core! nod


After issue 17, the storylines start to involve the Empire more, either directly or peripherally, but I was pleased to find that this did not affect the quality negatively at all. In fact, under Archie Goodwin and Carmine Infantino's steady hands, we are treated to three very entertaining storylines that bleed into one another. The first involves a gambling space station called the Wheel that becomes a battle ground for imperial and alliance intrigue. The second involves an imperial blockade of Yavin 4. The third brings a building confrontation between our heroes and the House of Tagge to a head. All are immensely entertaining, and there are a few fun one-offs interspersed as well.

I think having the House of Tagge as bad guys is probably my favorite aspect of the latter part of the run collected in this Omnibus. They are a noble family with extensive ties to the Empire. (In fact, the family is based around General Cassio Tagge, who has a speaking role in A New Hope in the same scene where Vader force-chokes one of the other imperial generals. Cassio, of course, dies with the Death Star.) The main Tagge in the comic, Baron Orman Tagge, has a very distinctive look with his cool sight-restoring glasses. We also meet three or four of his siblings, who all play a role. To my memory, the Tagges are among the best villains created for the classic Marvel era.

While I was somewhat hesitant in my praise above for Carmine Infantino's work on the book above, I must say that I came to really like it a great deal by the time I finished the Omnibus. He never compromises his distinctive style on the book, and I can appreciate it. I might even go so far as to say that his work on Star Wars just might be a solid Exhibit B for carmine after his classic work on the Flash. I really love it and will be sad to see his run end very early into the next Omnibus.

Certainly, the Omnibus is filled with some "curiosities" continuity-wise that would seem to contradict later canonical developments. For example, Jabba the Hut (one "t") returns in a story to vex Han Solo and Chewie. yes, he's still the green-skinned bipedal alien glimpsed in the New Hope adaptation and, get this, he even FORGIVES Han's debt to him after Han saves his life! lol This leads to an amusing last page about-face in the issue preceding the Empire adaptation showing Jabba getting pissed all over again and putting the price back on Han's head, so it won't contradict a major subplot in Empire which we are all familiar with.

Another thing that struck me oddly is that the Rebels stick with Yavin 4 well after the events of New Hope, even though the early issues show Luke searching for a new base. In fact, I don't think the comic ever clearly depicts them leaving and certainly never sets up Hoth for Empire.

These elements show that the information exchange between Marvel and Lucasfilm wasn't exactly entensive. If anything would have enhanced my enjoyment of these stories, it would have been more satisfaction of my OCD Star Wars continuity. But it was still only the most minor of crutches for me in what was otherwise some fun space fantasy. (In that spirit we won't even talk about the post-Clone Wars-set Obi-Wan flashback one-off story... shake )

Beginning with the Wheel arc, the embargo on using Vader is lifted, so he slowly starts to figure into the story, primarily in the background. That is until the finale of the Tagge arc in which Vader and Luke briefly come face to face and seemingly have their first lightsabre duel! Again, this tickles the continuity OCD a little terribly, but it's nice for what it is. And the overall Tagge arc comes to a fine conclusion.

The Omnibus ends with the fine adaptation of Empire Strikes Back and features the first legendary Star Wars work of Al Williamson, who remains regarded as one of the better artists on the property to this day. He and Archie do a really good job adapting one of the finest films of all time, even considering that they hadn't had the opportunity to see anything close to a finished product. There are certainly some inconsistencies with the film, including Han saying, "I love you, too," instead of the classic "I know."

Just an excellent, highly entertaining Omnibus altogether that both brought back some great childhood memories and stood up well as great storytelling despite some hindsight continuity gaffs. Even with all the advances and maturation of comic book storytelling, I still think that these are some of the better Star Wars tales ever told in the medium. Looking forward to reading Volume Two soon as it sits waiting patiently in the Pile.


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: The Big Pile o'Trades on the Coffee Table Next to My Recliner!
Lard Lad #854927 06/16/15 05:28 PM
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Great reviews, Lardy. They did what I think all reviews in this forum should do -- make me want to either buy the comic or trade in question or request it from the library.

I will certainly do one of the above with this Omnibus. I'll admit I have resisted the early Marvel Star Wars stories for decades, mainly because the low regard in fandom for the Roy Thomas arcs which you already noted, and because I'm generally not a fan of post-1968 Carmine Infantino (the artist even admitted in an interview many years ago that he felt that when he was promoted to DC executive and took a long hiatus from drawing, his artwork from the mid-1970s on never fully recovered its Silver Age mojo.) That said, I am a fan of Infantino's Silver Age work on both Flash and Adam Strange (Lardy, I know you usually prefer color with your reprints, but the Showcase Presents: Adam Strange trade is a very worthwhile investment IMO) so I will give it a fair chance. And Archie Goodwin was one of my favorite writers of all time -- anyone who wonders what was so great about him should read the first bookend issue of Armageddon 2001; Goodwin was so talented, he even raised a crass marketing-driven event to the level of art...shame he didn't script the second bookend...which was further damaged by the last-minute changes after Monarch's identity was leaked...but that's a whole other discussion.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

"Don't look for role models, girls, BE the role model."

- Legion World member HARBINGER
Re: The Big Pile o'Trades on the Coffee Table Next to My Recliner!
Fanfic Lady #854928 06/16/15 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
Great reviews, Lardy. They did what I think all reviews in this forum should do -- make me want to either buy the comic or trade in question or request it from the library.

I will certainly do one of the above with this Omnibus. I'll admit I have resisted the early Marvel Star Wars stories for decades, mainly because the low regard in fandom for the Roy Thomas arcs which you already noted, and because I'm generally not a fan of post-1968 Carmine Infantino (the artist even admitted in an interview many years ago that he felt that when he was promoted to DC executive and took a long hiatus from drawing, his artwork from the mid-1970s on never fully recovered its Silver Age mojo.) That said, I am a fan of Infantino's Silver Age work on both Flash and Adam Strange (Lardy, I know you usually prefer color with your reprints, but the Showcase Presents: Adam Strange trade is a very worthwhile investment IMO) so I will give it a fair chance. And Archie Goodwin was one of my favorite writers of all time -- anyone who wonders what was so great about him should read the first bookend issue of Armageddon 2001; Goodwin was so talented, he even raised a crass marketing-driven event to the level of art...shame he didn't script the second bookend...which was further damaged by the last-minute changes after Monarch's identity was leaked...but that's a whole other discussion.


I will admit to some bias in my review of these particular stories because I grew up reading them as the first comic I ever followed regularly as a child. But I do honestly think they were solid stories and highly entertaining. I also don't think Archie will let you down, here. I'll be curious to see if Infantino's work here does anything for you, as well. I've a feeling that many didn't/won't care for it, but I certainly did.


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: The Big Pile o'Trades on the Coffee Table Next to My Recliner!
Lard Lad #854937 06/16/15 06:07 PM
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So I recently got to read the brief but legendary run of Roger Stern and John Byrne which has been frequently collected as Captain America: War & Remembrance. In fact it's pretty much stayed in print for about three decades.

And it's well-deserved. I'm a fan of both Stern and Byrne, and they do a great job of pretty much just telling solid Cap stories. There's not a whole lot within that reinvents the wheel (well, maybe with one exception, but I'll get to that....), but everything within is rock-solid and entertaining.

I think Byrne draws a simply iconic Cap. I don't know that I realized this before I read this collection, but I now believe it's 100% true. He's certainly not one of the characters Byrne is most identified with, like the FF, the X-Men and Superman, but I now think his Cap is right up there. I mean, he draws him pitch-perfectly, but there's also something in his stance, his manner and the way he's poised for action that Byrne just nails. I don't know if he's the best Cap artist ever, but for my money, Byrne's version is as iconic in its own way as Kirby's, Epting's or anyone else's.

And of course Roger Stern just has a knack for telling stories that are at least solid and at best often outstanding. Byrne and Stern have long been friends, but this is one of the very few occasions where they actually got to collaborate as writer and artist on the same stories. And it shows that they were enjoying the collaboration.

They are three multi-parters centering around: 1) the Machinesmith and Dragon Man, 2) Batroc, Mister Hyde and Roxxon & 3) an Invaders reunion, the new Union Jack & Baron Blood. The first doubles as a kind of continuity fix (repairing some glitches about cap's upbringing and the fate of Baron Strucker) while working in a pretty tricky foe. The second is kind of an adrenaline rush precursor to movies like Speed and, I think, uses problematic cap foe Batroc rather well. The third features a trip to England and uses all of the characters very well.

But I think the collection is best known for its two standalone stories from issues 250 and 255. The latter is a retelling of Cap's origin in a manner that at the time was the most streamlined version to date. There are elements presented here that have become essential to Cap's story to the point where elements made it to the big screen version a few years ago. It must have been revolutionary at the time, but for me it's just very good and kind of a coda to the run, rather than an epic conclusion.

But for me, the show-stopper is the excellent "Cap for President!" story from issue 250. It follows Cap seriously considering a run for the Oval Office and just hits all the right notes, IMO. I won't spoil it (though I suppose his decision must seem obvious in hindsight), but to me, it still stands out for its unusual premise and its fine execution. I think anyone looking for a list of essential Cap stories should include this one for sure. It's worth mentioning that the basic idea for the story (with a different outcome) was originally pitched by Roger McKenzie and Don Perlin a few years before and that they are given credit for the plot.

Unfortunately, the run ends with the trade. I was wondering what the reason was (Stern is vague about it in his intro) and did a little internet research. Marvel politics appears to be to blame. Apparently, artists would get a bonus for doing a number of consecutive issues, and Marvel wanted to schedule a fill-in before Byrne hit the mark, apparently to avoid paying the bonus. It rubbed both the wrong way, and writer and artist ended their run prematurely.

It's a shame because they were not only telling great stories but also building up Steve Rogers' personal life pretty well with a new love interest and a supporting cast, something the character has often lacked in his history. As I recall J.M. Dematteis would later pick up their baton pretty well, but Gruenwald would eventually throw it out in a long run that admittedly had its moments..

In my opinion, War and Remembrance offers up some really terrific Cap stories. I'm glad that I finally got around to reading them. I just really wish there had been more of this great run to follow!


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Re: The Big Pile o'Trades on the Coffee Table Next to My Recliner!
Lard Lad #854952 06/16/15 06:49 PM
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Having read Volume One a few months ago, I was really looking forward to reading Grendel Omnibus Vol. 2: Legacy, especially as it was pretty much the first batch of Grendel stories without Hunter Rose as the lead character and with a female lead at that. I've gotta say, though, that I was overall disappointed.

The Omnibus is divided into three sections: one featuring Rose's adopted daughter Stacy's troubled life after Rose's passing, the second featuring Stacy's daughter Christine and her career as the second grendel, and the third featuring a character from Christine's story giving two previously untold accounts from Hunter Rose's career.

Of the three, I think Stacy's story is the strongest. It's written by Diane Schutz and with art by Tim Sale. It's very well told but very bleak, violent and disturbing. Stacy has been institutionalized in the wake of her experience with Rose, and she is abused by forces natural and supernatural. It's horrifying and very hard to read. Suffice to say, it's not a happy story.

I was most disappointed in Christine's story. First of all, I didn't care much for the art by Arnold and Jacob Pander here. The main thing is that everything had such a tremendous '80s sensibility to it--the hair, the clothes, everything. Yes, I know the story was produced in the '80s , but it was supposed to be set in the future (I suppose, more or less what we call "now"). It has FLYING CARS in it for Chrissakes! So why, oh why, would everyone have '80s big hair, blouses with shoulder pads and on and on?

But beyond the art, the story just has that air of inevitability in that you just know how it's gonna end. And worse, it seems Wagner goes out of his way to show Christine is a secondhand Hunter Rose. There's no sense that she's all that good at what she does (unlike Rose) nor really for why she takes on the mantle. I mean, she has a big motivation for revenge (one that's not unlike an '80s revenge film itself), but so much of it falls flat. In the end it plays out too much like Hunter Rose's story, and I was hoping for something different...certainly something that felt less like Miami Vice on acid.

The Omnibus concludes with a trio of stories involving the cop who pursued Christine. The first involves a would-be successor to Christine. The other two, unfortunately, feature stories the cop has uncovered about Hunter Rose. Unfortunate, because I was hoping to move past Rose in this Omnibus, but wagner finds a way to bring him back in by using the cop as a framing device to keep things in the chronology. All of these stories are decent, but after all of the Rose short stories in the previous volume, there isn't really anything all that new to offer.

It's basically a bleak, flat Omnibus which just doesn't have much meat to it. Kind of like a worst hits of the grim '80s without anything from the decade that might have livened it up. hell, it shouldn't have felt '80s at all, given the supposedly futuristic setting. Maybe it gets better with the successive Omnibuses and the evolution of Grendel, but I'm not sure I want to go any further at this point.


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Re: The Big Pile o'Trades on the Coffee Table Next to My Recliner!
Lard Lad #854964 06/16/15 07:19 PM
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I pretty much agree with everything about Captain America: War and Remembrance, Lardy. Never less than solid, often outstanding. As great as the stand-alones are, though, it's the Invaders reunion arc that made the greatest impression on me. Byrne was often typecast as a bright and shiny artist, and this has to be the first time chronologically that he showed himself to be a master of moodiness. Of course, Joe Rubinstein's inks have a lot to do with it (how sad that Byrne and Rubinstein didn't build up a body of work as sizable as Byrne and Terry Austin.) And Stern's scripting has so many great character moments, from Jackie's self-consciousness about her age to her father's unwavering stiff-upper-lip pride to Joey's rough edges...wonderful stuff.

I still haven't checked out the first Grendel Omnibus, and on the basis of your review, I sincerely doubt I'll check out the second Omnibus. It sounds dreadful.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

"Don't look for role models, girls, BE the role model."

- Legion World member HARBINGER
Re: The Big Pile o'Trades on the Coffee Table Next to My Recliner!
Fanfic Lady #854986 06/16/15 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
I pretty much agree with everything about Captain America: War and Remembrance, Lardy. Never less than solid, often outstanding. As great as the stand-alones are, though, it's the Invaders reunion arc that made the greatest impression on me. Byrne was often typecast as a bright and shiny artist, and this has to be the first time chronologically that he showed himself to be a master of moodiness. Of course, Joe Rubinstein's inks have a lot to do with it (how sad that Byrne and Rubinstein didn't build up a body of work as sizable as Byrne and Terry Austin.) And Stern's scripting has so many great character moments, from Jackie's self-consciousness about her age to her father's unwavering stiff-upper-lip pride to Joey's rough edges...wonderful stuff.


I didn't mean to gloss over the Invaders reunion part of W&R. It was actually quite terrific, as was the rest of the trade. I think, perhaps, it had less of an effect on me because there was very little of a surprise element to it. I think this was because the contents were more or less spoiled to me decades ago by entries in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, particularly Baron Blood's entry, among others. Anyhow, I mostly wanted to get across the overall impression of the trade in that case, rather than review each story. Still, I "Cap for President!" is my clear standout.

Very good point about Byrne with Rubenstein showing some moodiness in the Invaders arc. It's not what Byrne is known for, but he's more versatile than he gets credit for.

What do you think about Byrne's overall rendition of Cap?


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Re: The Big Pile o'Trades on the Coffee Table Next to My Recliner!
Lard Lad #854988 06/16/15 07:59 PM
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Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying about the spoilers, Lardy.

I think Byrne's visualization of Cap is magnificent, the definitive one before Steve Epting's 2005-2008 Cap run -- some people would say Mike Zeck, but I've always felt he did better work on Master of Kung Fu (and those great G.I. Joe covers) than on Cap.


Read LEGIONS OF 7 WORLDS in the Bits forum:

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 1 (COMPLETED)

Retroboot (Earth-7.5) Arc 2 (WORK IN PROGRESS)

"Don't look for role models, girls, BE the role model."

- Legion World member HARBINGER
Re: The Big Pile o'Trades on the Coffee Table Next to My Recliner!
Lard Lad #855010 06/16/15 08:33 PM
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To finish my most "past due" set of reviews, I'll end on another good note with Tales of the Batman: Gene Colan Volume One. My interest in this collection was twofold: One, I've become more and more a fan of the artist in question in recent years. Two, it features a number of stories I bought off the spinner rack as a child, including a thrilling multi-part caper with vampires that I remember fondly. Just look at this Colan cover and tell me it doesn't look cool:

[Linked Image]

I know, right? When I saw that cover and instantly remembered that story, I HAD TO HAVE IT!!!!

Even better, I don't think I ever got to see how it ended as a child. Unfortunately, due to the artist-first nature of these "Tales" collections, while I DID get to see the vamps defeated this time, I didn't get to read the epilogue that appeared in the next Detective Comics issue because Gene didn't draw it. I doubt it was super-detailed because a fight with Deadshot (something I wouldn't have minded reading either) was that issue's main headline foe, but I would have liked to have seen whatever resolution was provided. (I mean, a semi-vamped-out Batman actually bit a perp's neck in the arc! I wonder if Bats checked up on him?!?)

Still, it was all very cool and moody, and anyone who knows Colan knows he was BORN to draw vampires! And he certainly doesn't disappoint here in what is actually a take on one of Batman's earliest foes, the Mad Monk. Instead of the traditional vampire take inspired by the Dracula myth, we get more of it being the result of an occult curse. It's a subtle difference, but it distinguishes this story from Colan's other vampire work. And really, other than the later Elseworlds trilogy that began with Red Reign, Batman versus vampires was and still is a novelty for the character. (I definitely have to read Colan's Tomb of Dracula at some point, though. nod )

The bulk of the stories in the book are written by Gerry Conway. Gerry is known for having lots of good runs on various characters as well as for having some that were very disappointing. This is definitely "good" Conway, and he peppers the book with great subplots involving a critical mayoral race, Gordon getting sacked as Commissioner and Vicki vale on the trail of Batman's secrets. Again, the trade's themes gets in the way of some of them, so you don't always get the resolution, but it's still fine reading which only wants me to read more of Conway's Batman.

Colan shines throughout. In addition to the vampires, he gets to draw classic Batman foes as Mad Hatter, Poison Ivy and Man-Bat and even JSA foe Solomon Grundy. And of course, the Dark Knight himself is perfect for Colan's sensibilities, and he doesn't disappoint in this portrayal.

Gene was such a great, great talent, and I'm so glad he got to do a good amount of work on Batman for us to read or re-read in this handsome collection. If there's ever a Volume Two, and I hope there is--DC has a sure sale from this fan! nod


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Lard Lad #855012 06/16/15 08:42 PM
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No argument about Colan's talent, although most of what I've seen of his DC work from the 80s felt a bit "off" to me, because they couldn't seem to find an inker who had the same chemistry with him as Tom Palmer had with him at Marvel in the 70s.

I haven't re-read the Gerry Conway era Batman in years. I always preferred Doug Moench's first run, which IIRC began more or less around the same time that Don Newton moved from Detective Comics to the Batman flagship book. Newton on Batman outdid Colan on 'Tec during that era IMO.

Anyhow, the vampire story does sound cool, as do the subplots, so if my library carries this trade, I'll give it a chance.


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In these stories Colan is inked by a few different guys, all talented. Most are inked by Klaus Janson. Tony Dezuniga inks most of the vampire art. Alfredo Alcala, Dick Giordiano and Adrian Gonzales each do an issue apiece.


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Lard Lad #855018 06/16/15 08:57 PM
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Thanks for the rundown, Lardy.

Hmmm...Alcala and Giordano might have worked in theory. Gonzales I recall generally inking much less stylized art than Colan's. DeZuniga could go either way. And Janson I do recall inking Colan, and I consider him wholly inappropriate for Colan, his blockiness and rough edges ruining the ethereal quality of Colan's pencils.


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Lard Lad #855019 06/16/15 08:57 PM
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Colan's art on Detective was something gritty and different when I read some of the issues years ago. Going back through a lot of '80s stuff recently, I appreciate it even more.



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thoth lad #855020 06/16/15 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by thoth lad
Colan's art on Detective was something gritty and different when I read some of the issues years ago. Going back through a lot of '80s stuff recently, I appreciate it even more.



I preferred Newton. He was cleaner, yet still atmospheric and stylized, and he had inkers who complimented him better.


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I honestly have little or no concerns with the inking in this volume. It's pretty consistent overall and seems to bring out Colan's style just fine. It all seemed fairly similar to, say, his work on Doctor Strange which Palmer inked.


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Lard Lad #855352 06/19/15 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin
So I recently got to read the brief but legendary run of Roger Stern and John Byrne which has been frequently collected as Captain America: War & Remembrance. In fact it's pretty much stayed in print for about three decades.

And it's well-deserved. I'm a fan of both Stern and Byrne, and they do a great job of pretty much just telling solid Cap stories. There's not a whole lot within that reinvents the wheel (well, maybe with one exception, but I'll get to that....), but everything within is rock-solid and entertaining.

I think Byrne draws a simply iconic Cap. I don't know that I realized this before I read this collection, but I now believe it's 100% true. He's certainly not one of the characters Byrne is most identified with, like the FF, the X-Men and Superman, but I now think his Cap is right up there. I mean, he draws him pitch-perfectly, but there's also something in his stance, his manner and the way he's poised for action that Byrne just nails. I don't know if he's the best Cap artist ever, but for my money, Byrne's version is as iconic in its own way as Kirby's, Epting's or anyone else's.

And of course Roger Stern just has a knack for telling stories that are at least solid and at best often outstanding. Byrne and Stern have long been friends, but this is one of the very few occasions where they actually got to collaborate as writer and artist on the same stories. And it shows that they were enjoying the collaboration.

They are three multi-parters centering around: 1) the Machinesmith and Dragon Man, 2) Batroc, Mister Hyde and Roxxon & 3) an Invaders reunion, the new Union Jack & Baron Blood. The first doubles as a kind of continuity fix (repairing some glitches about cap's upbringing and the fate of Baron Strucker) while working in a pretty tricky foe. The second is kind of an adrenaline rush precursor to movies like Speed and, I think, uses problematic cap foe Batroc rather well. The third features a trip to England and uses all of the characters very well.

But I think the collection is best known for its two standalone stories from issues 250 and 255. The latter is a retelling of Cap's origin in a manner that at the time was the most streamlined version to date. There are elements presented here that have become essential to Cap's story to the point where elements made it to the big screen version a few years ago. It must have been revolutionary at the time, but for me it's just very good and kind of a coda to the run, rather than an epic conclusion.

But for me, the show-stopper is the excellent "Cap for President!" story from issue 250. It follows Cap seriously considering a run for the Oval Office and just hits all the right notes, IMO. I won't spoil it (though I suppose his decision must seem obvious in hindsight), but to me, it still stands out for its unusual premise and its fine execution. I think anyone looking for a list of essential Cap stories should include this one for sure. It's worth mentioning that the basic idea for the story (with a different outcome) was originally pitched by Roger McKenzie and Don Perlin a few years before and that they are given credit for the plot.

Unfortunately, the run ends with the trade. I was wondering what the reason was (Stern is vague about it in his intro) and did a little internet research. Marvel politics appears to be to blame. Apparently, artists would get a bonus for doing a number of consecutive issues, and Marvel wanted to schedule a fill-in before Byrne hit the mark, apparently to avoid paying the bonus. It rubbed both the wrong way, and writer and artist ended their run prematurely.

It's a shame because they were not only telling great stories but also building up Steve Rogers' personal life pretty well with a new love interest and a supporting cast, something the character has often lacked in his history. As I recall J.M. Dematteis would later pick up their baton pretty well, but Gruenwald would eventually throw it out in a long run that admittedly had its moments..

In my opinion, War and Remembrance offers up some really terrific Cap stories. I'm glad that I finally got around to reading them. I just really wish there had been more of this great run to follow!
I first read the Byrne / Stern Cap stories waaaay back when I was like 13 or 14. At the time, I certainly knew who John Byrne was because of his Fantastic Four and Superman stuff, but I don’t think I even realized at the time that Roger Stern was the same guy who wrote my beloved Spider-Man / Hobgoblin stories. It’s been 20 years since I looked at these issues but I remember enjoying them immensely.

I agree wholeheartedly on Byrne drawing a simply iconic Cap. Perhaps even the definitive version. As a lover of Kirby’s work, he took much of what made Cap so immensely popular from the day he arrived on the stands forward, but he also added something extra that even Kirby didn’t have in there. So I definitely get what you’re saying. It’s like he added bits of Superman or George Washington or I don’t quite know what, but it screams iconic and heroic and “leader”.

I remember loving the Batroc / Hyde story the most and it was probably due to that adrenaline rush sensation you mention. I can’t remember “Cap for President” at all and that might because we simply did have it then, only to buy it later. (We now own all of Cap’s stories from his return in Avengers #4 to the present).

I’ve recently been getting nostalgic for Roger Stern, so its cool to see you reviewing this. I was looking at some Spider-Man covers on my ipad on the train and felt this itch to delve back into Spidey history (likely because of your prior reviews of Silver Age Spidey). Roger is best known Spidey-wise for the Hobgoblin, the kid who collected Spider-Man and the Juggernaut story, but he had like 25 other really fantastic stories in PPTSS and ASM.

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Lard Lad #855354 06/19/15 01:49 PM
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I’m a huge fan of Gene Colan too, so its great to see you reviewing his Batman stories. The era in the late 70’s / early 80’s that Gene and Gerry Conway were doing Batman was a great IMO. I can never remember which stories were done by who since it’s been so long, but I certainly remember the Gordon subplot referenced above.

Tell me: is the story in which Batman is beaten to a bloody pulp, perhaps with his memory lost, by the blind kid down by the river in a shack (possibly at a garbage dump) in this? Was this even done by Gene. Hell, I can’t even remember if this was a Night-Stalker / Nocturna story or a Hugo Strange story. All I know is a 13 year old Cobie was totally mesmerized by this issue.

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Cobalt Kid #855355 06/19/15 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid

Tell me: is the story in which Batman is beaten to a bloody pulp, perhaps with his memory lost, by the blind kid down by the river in a shack (possibly at a garbage dump) in this? Was this even done by Gene. Hell, I can’t even remember if this was a Night-Stalker / Nocturna story or a Hugo Strange story. All I know is a 13 year old Cobie was totally mesmerized by this issue.


I think the story you're thinking of (one that I also fondly remember from my youth) is in the Len Wein collection and drawn by Don Newton, which is also in the Pile. It may be the same or just similar because I think it's more like a hermit in the woods than a kid. Here's the cover of the story I'm thinking about:

[Linked Image]

Look familiar?



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Cobalt Kid #855356 06/19/15 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Cobalt Kid
I agree wholeheartedly on Byrne drawing a simply iconic Cap. Perhaps even the definitive version. As a lover of Kirby’s work, he took much of what made Cap so immensely popular from the day he arrived on the stands forward, but he also added something extra that even Kirby didn’t have in there. So I definitely get what you’re saying. It’s like he added bits of Superman or George Washington or I don’t quite know what, but it screams iconic and heroic and “leader”.


I know! It's something that simply never occurred to me before reading this collection, probably because Cap isn't a character Byrne is identified with typically, despite this being one of the most successful Cap collections ever. And it's for every reason you mention, plus Byrne also puts some definite warmth into his eyes...a kindness, if you will. I don't know that any other artist has worked all of those aspects into Cap's depiction. It looks deceptively simple on the surface, but there's all kinds of nuance. That's what I call iconic! nod

Quote
I remember loving the Batroc / Hyde story the most and it was probably due to that adrenaline rush sensation you mention. I can’t remember “Cap for President” at all and that might because we simply did have it then, only to buy it later. (We now own all of Cap’s stories from his return in Avengers #4 to the present).


I hope you get the chance to read it before too long. I'd love to see what you think! nod

Quote
I’ve recently been getting nostalgic for Roger Stern, so its cool to see you reviewing this. I was looking at some Spider-Man covers on my ipad on the train and felt this itch to delve back into Spidey history (likely because of your prior reviews of Silver Age Spidey). Roger is best known Spidey-wise for the Hobgoblin, the kid who collected Spider-Man and the Juggernaut story, but he had like 25 other really fantastic stories in PPTSS and ASM.


Roger was and is a great writer and is easily one of the best Spidey writers of all time. As you say, it's way beyond the Hobgoblin story. It's not just anyone who can write Peter and tell a great Spider-man story while also putting his own stamp on the book. It's a pretty elite list, imo, and Roger is at or near the top.


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Lard Lad #860062 07/15/15 06:04 PM
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Pile UPDATE (7/15/15)

Recently Read
Marvel Masterworks: The Defenders Vol. 3
Marvel Masterworks: Iron Fist Vol. 1
Jinx


To-Read Pile (new stuff since last time in bold)
Marvel Masterworks: The Defenders Vol. 4
Mage Vol. 2: The Hero Defined
Legion Archives Vol. 10
West Coast Avengers Omnibus Vols. 1 & 2
Goldfish
Fantastic Four by John Byrne Omnibus Vols. 1 & 2
Scout Vol. 2
Frank Miller's Ronin Deluxe Edition
Spider-Man by Roger Stern Omnibus
Marvel Masterworks: Silver Surfer Vol. 1
Iron Man by Michelinie, Layton & Romita, Jr. Omnibus
Tales of the Batman: Len Wein
Murder Me Dead (David Lapham)
Stray Bullets Uber Alles Edition
Amazing Spider-Man: The Original Clone Saga
Daredevil by Frank Miller & Klaus Jansen Omnibus
Grimjack Omnibus Vol. 2
Jon Sable: Freelance Omnibus Vols. 1 & 2
Avengers Omnibus Vol. 2
Secret Six Vol. 1: Villains United
Underwater Welder
Marvel Masterworks: Doctor Strange Vol. 6
Lost Girls Vols 1-3
Flex Mentallo
Nemo: Heart of Ice
Nemo: Roses of Berlin
Orion by Walt Simonson Omnibus
Shaman's Tears (Mike Grell)
Howard the Duck Omnibus
Star Wars: The Original Marvel Years Omnibus Vol. 2
Marvel Masterworks: Iron Fist Vol. 2
Silver Surfer (current series) Vol. 2: Worlds Apart
Essential Amazing Spider-man Vol. 5
Marvel Masterworks: Captain America Vol. 7 (Englehart)
New Teen Titans Vol. 2


On the Way
Just the Tips (Fraction/Zdarsky)
Essential Spider-Man Vol. 4
Thor Omnibus Vol. 2
Marada the She-Wolf


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Re: The Big Pile o'Trades on the Coffee Table Next to My Recliner!
Lard Lad #860063 07/15/15 06:18 PM
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Glad to see you're going the Essentials route so you can complete the vintage Amazing Spider-Man experience, Lardy. And I think Romita and Kane lend themselves especially well to black & white.


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Fanfic Lady #860074 07/15/15 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Fanfic Lady
Glad to see you're going the Essentials route so you can complete the vintage Amazing Spider-Man experience, Lardy. And I think Romita and Kane lend themselves especially well to black & white.


Yeah, after Vol. 8 the ASM Masterworks just get too expensive because they're out of print and haven't been put out in softcover yet. You typically can't get Vol. 9 for under $80, and the ones above that are $100 or more. So....Essentials it is for the foreseeable future!


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Lard Lad #860098 07/16/15 03:21 AM
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I'm envious - all that great reading ahead of you!

What is Scout vol.2? Don't know it and when I searched all that came up was Grrl Scouts.


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Lard Lad #860129 07/16/15 11:40 AM
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FC, "Scout" was a post-apocalyptic action drama with mystical overtones, originally published in the mid-late 1980s. It was written and drawn by Tim Truman, of Hawkworld, Jonah Hex, and Grimjack fame. The protagonist is a gun-toting, motorcycle-riding Native American of the Apache tribe named Emanuel Santana. It's far deeper and richer than most stories of this sub-genre IMO.

Lardy and I discussed "Scout" Vol. 1 earlier in this thread, in the bottom half of Page 9.


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