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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
He Who Wanders #875165 11/05/15 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
All in all, I appreciate the serious tone of this story and how it depicts war and soldiers in terms that do not fit tidily into heroes and villains, but I wish the story had had more room to breathe.


Considering the time when Shooter wrote this, there’s a maturity shown in his writing. As HWW says, it doesn’t pick sides and shows that the heroic die just as easily as anyone else.

I mentioned that there was an issue of Suicide Squad that used the same device as this issue, in a dead man believing he was still alive through will alone.

That book also had a war issue, and it was a partisan, immature affair that showed none of Shooter’s ability here.

As for PTSD, the first name that comes into my mind is Mon-El, tormented by his 1000 years in the zone, where he witnessed death on a huge scale and who would rather die than face it again.




"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #875627 11/09/15 06:19 PM
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The main thing I wanted to say about the Soljer story was how dynamic Grell's layouts to finished product looked in it. They really just popped and took the story to the next level. In fact, as I thought about it more and more, I realized that they reminded me of Steve Lightle's work during his much later Baxter run. I've never really thought of Lightle and Baxter having similar styles before, but in at least this one instance, I can see some comparisons in their storytelling sensibilities.

In any case, though his stories have been well-rendered from his arrival on the strip, this one really shows some growth and dynamism that help solidify him as a worthy successor to Cockrum. I've been a big Grell fan for a good while now, and I'm pleased to watch him begin to show signs of developing here into the great artist that he would absolutely become.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #875717 11/10/15 11:21 AM
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Agreed about Grell's work on Soljer. So many shots stand out, beginning with the splash page of Garth frying an unknown person (who turns out to be Superboy) with a "death bolt." The shot of Essad jumping on the grenade literally leaps out of the panel, and the illusion of Metropolis destroyed is horrifying. Grell certainly came into his own on this one.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #875718 11/10/15 11:26 AM
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Superboy 211

This was a powerful follow up to Edmond Hamilton’s Element Lad origin story way back in Adventure 307.

Shooter’s mature plotting once again provides a strong story. In the end, Jan Arrah, did try to execute Roxxas, the killer of his race. In so many other stories, the hero comes to his senses before committing the act. Often this is sudden and unconvincing. Instead, Jan is all the more vengeful because Roxxas is using his dead planet as a secret base. Only after the act, does Jan realise that his murder did not bring him the peace he wanted so badly.

Years later, and in a different, rebooted Legion, Lightning Lad would also resign before killing another being, so as not to dishonour the Legion.

Element Lad's "right" to interpret Tromian law, as it's last survivor, doesn't seem to cut much ice with his colleagues. Unlike Jeckie's actions in the Baxter run. Royalty has it's privileges.

Only Chemical King saw the impact that the environment and Roxxas’ escape had on Jan. While he’s there to provide a super-powered way of letting Jan follow through on his wishes, the tale does provide some insight into Condo’s outlook. His look at Trom’s ruins is an excellent set up panel. I’d like to read into Condo’s actions that perhaps being a little bit of an unintentional outsider in the Legion made him more perceptive concerning the actions of the others.

Both Jan and Roxxas achieve critical turning points in their characterisation due to Condo’s actions. By letting them seemingly achieve their goals, he has given them a glimpse of the world where those actions would lead. He’s then brought them both back, to see if they wish to follow that path again.

In Jan’s case the answer is no. We would see him add a spiritual aspect to the practical Tromian heritage he already had. Later reboots would focus in on this aspect of Jan, most notably leading to his changes in the Abnett/Lanning run.

Roxxas would see his choice reinforced by Jan’s actions. He wanted to die, and Condo has prevented this from happening. Haunted by the ghosts of his guilt, and isolated fugitive status, Roxxas would have a breakdown. In the TMK run, the voices of his ghosts would be head as voices in his fractured personality.

This story provided the spine to one of the central threads of the TMK run. In that run, Roxxas would eventually begin a path of reconciliation. Perhaps it was the recent, mature look at Lightning Lord that prevented it happening here for Roxxas. But probably it was the simple sense of justice that Roxxas would never escape his crimes.

Interestingly, Condo would be one the team sent to raid a Haven for most wanted criminals. They trust him to handle himself in a team without too many heavyweights. Adding to the issue’s theme, Condo knows that his power is capable of killing the criminals, but that he wouldn’t be a Legionnaire if he did so. Instead he slows their metabolism instead of stopping it.

Legionnaires who kill is further reinforced through Star Boy. He provides a thematic link from Element Lad’s origin, through his own self defence and to Element’ Lad’s revenge here. Star Boy’s expulsion from the Legion when he felt that he acted in self defence, is an earlier example of the Legion throwing off plot clichés to provide unexpected outcomes.

Thom’s inclusion in the story was a little obvious as soon as Element Lad and Roxxas appeared. He was, like Condo, perhaps an unlikely choice to tackle bands of hardened crooks.

Unlike Bates, the use of Condo and Thom shows that Shooter can reach into the back stories of any Legionnaire to provide the cast for the story he needs to tell. He doesn’t need to bring in a guest star as a focal point.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #875727 11/10/15 11:55 AM
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211/Ultimate Revenge.

This story, after those of the Cockrum era (197-202), has always burned brightly in my memory. I think "The Ulitmate Revenge," along with "Soljer," stands out for exploring serious themes such as war and revenge. This one also takes another risk by showing a Legionnaire being fully human--desiring revenge as any human would after enduring unspeakable tragedy.

I recall reading an interview once in which Shooter identified Adventure Comics # 307 as the story which made him want to write comic books. As a then 12-year-old, he was so disturbed by Element Lad's matter-of-fact reaction to the slaughter of his entire race ("*choke* My homeworld ... gone!") that he resolved to do better. With "The Ultimate Revenge," he gets his chance to set things right and partially succeeds.

Roxxas, the slaughterer, has escaped from prison and made his way to a deep space sanctuary for criminals. Shortly after he arrives, the Legionnaires do, as well, and round up most of the criminals. The wily Roxxas, however, gets away, but not before he is spotted by Jan. The Legionnaire is so shocked to see his people's killer again that he hesitates in apprehending Roxxas. However, he soon deduces where Roxxas has fled--the ruins of Jan's homeworld, Trom--and follows him there with one purpose in mind: to kill him.

In reading this story again, I admire what Shooter attempted to do, but the story lacks much of the finesse and artistry of "Soljer." It's too straightforward and rather clunky in fulfilling its objectives. For example, Star Boy is in the story for no other reason than to remind Jan of what happens to Legionnaires who kill. Chemical King's exposition on Page 4 reminds us that killing is against the Legion's code, which is necessary information but delivered in a very obvious manner. And its convenient that Star Boy, who has worked alongside Jan for years, knows nothing of his history, giving Jan an opportunity to fill the reader in. Even if Thom was on a leave of absence at the time of Trom's genocide (as we will later find out), one would expect him to have a conversation with Jan or follow the news at some point . . .

These complaints may seem minor, but they actually interfered with my enjoyment of the story. It is simply too "bald" of a tale, if you will, too unadorned and lacking in nuance. ("Soljer," by contrast, left it up to the reader to determine if Essad was a hero or villain--and invited us to question our assumptions of both. There's no such ambiguity in "The Ultimate Revenge.")

It's great that Chem used psychology and his power to give Jan what he wanted, but it's also mighty convenient that Jan responded the way Chem expected. It's also mighty convenient that Jan got what he wanted anyway--the ultimate revenge--by letting Roxxas live.

A couple of odds and ends:
-- Dirk seems to be growing more accustomed to being a leader in this story. He's the one who examines the tapes and figures out what Jan is up to, for instance.
-- There are some nice nods to the Legion's past in this story. In addition to flashback of Star Boy's trial, we also learn that Cosmic Boy is vacationing on Kathoon (presumably with Night Girl) and that Lightning Lad has possibly gone to Amarta, another name for Winath.



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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #875730 11/10/15 12:19 PM
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211/"The Legion's Lost Home"

This story, too, is well intentioned but somehow falls flat. This is one of Bates' few forays into the Legion's past--developing a new story off of previous events. In this case, we learn whatever became of the Legion's original clubhouse after it was damaged by the Fatal Five back in Adv. 366. Simple answer: It was given to the Subs.

Again, nice idea but weak execution. The story seems to exist mainly to introduce new costumes for the Subs (which are never seen again) and to build some mystery about who they are. But the true mystery turns out to be that "Cos" and "Shady" are being impersonated by villains who just want to retrieve a rare gem from one of the Legion's holding cells.

Nice story but inconsequential.

Jarring bits:
--Shady did not wear that costume until much later than Adv. 366. Also, it's not clear why she would be sorry to see the old HQ go since she only joined the Legion in the same issue as its destruction.
--How much time passes between Page 1 and Page 2 of the story? It's not at all clear and, on re-read, left me confused as to why the Legion waited so long to give their scrapped clubhouse to the Subs.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
thoth lad #875733 11/10/15 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by thoth lad

Shooter’s mature plotting is once again provides a strong story. In the end, Jan Arrah, did try to execute Roxxas, the killer of his race. In so many other stories, the hero comes to his senses before committing the act. Often this is sudden and unconvincing. Instead, Jan is all the more vengeful because Roxxas is using his dead planet as a secret base. Only after the act, does Jan realise that his murder did not bring him the peace he wanted so badly.


You do a wonderful job of pointing out some unexpected treasures in this story . . .

Quote
Years later, and in a different, rebooted Legion, Lightning Lad would also resign before killing another being, so as not to dishonour the Legion.


. . . and in connecting it to later Legion stories.

Quote
Element Lad's "right" to interpret Tromian law, as it's last survivor, doesn't seem to cut much ice with his colleagues. Unlike Jeckie's actions in the Baxter run. Royalty has it's privileges.


To be fair, Jeckie had resigned from active membership before her execution of Nemesis Kid. I also like to think the Legionnaires were a bit older and more experienced by then, and more understanding of Jeckie's situation. In reality, I know that Levitz substituted Jeckie for Supergirl, and, in doing so, defeated any sort of in-universe logic.

Quote
Only Chemical King saw the impact that the environment and Roxxas’ escape had on Jan. While he’s there to provide a super-powered way of letting Jan follow through on his wishes, the tale does provide some insight into Condo’s outlook. His look at Trom’s ruins is an excellent set up panel. I’d like to read into Condo’s actions that perhaps being a little bit of an unintentional outsider in the Legion made him more perceptive concerning the actions of the others.


Very interesting interpretation of this scene. I thought of it as more of a throwaway line, but I like where you're going with this.



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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
He Who Wanders #875785 11/11/15 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Roxxas, the slaughterer, has escaped from prison and made his way to a deep space sanctuary for criminals.


Worst super villain hideout...of space. "Oh, it's only hidden from one side." It has that nice touch of DC Silver Age Sci-fi. Taking a premise and running with it.


Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
For example, Star Boy is in the story for no other reason than to remind Jan of what happens to Legionnaires who kill. Chemical King's exposition on Page 4 reminds us that killing is against the Legion's code, which is necessary information but delivered in a very obvious manner.


I do agree that they were obviously there for those reasons. But I felt that, if the story had a few more pages, it could have been hidden a little more in some other background Legionnaires. I do think that using Star Boy's back story to push this tale along is a step up from stories where only Star Boy's powers could save the day, and he just happens to be on duty. I kept wondering what Ayla was doing in this story. Perhaps Garth, and the bitterness long running resentment can cause, could have been an option for a longer tale.

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
And its convenient that Star Boy, who has worked alongside Jan for years, knows nothing of his history, giving Jan an opportunity to fill the reader in.


I forgot to add this into mine. It was a surprise. Imagine all those Legion cafeteria conversations where Thom puts his foot in it, because he can't be bothered learning about anyone else. I had even checked out the Legion index to see who had been in the fist Element Lad story. Sure enough, there was Sun Boy making his presence, along with Condo and Thom for different reasons, necessary. I think Thom is a bit bitter after the Legion creators forgot about him for so long, they developed Ultra Boy in his place. smile

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
It's also mighty convenient that Jan got what he wanted anyway--the ultimate revenge--by letting Roxxas live.


Between the panels of this issue and next, Jan gets a hold of the first working gun he finds, and goes back to get Roxxas before he's carted off to a rubber room of space. smile

I'd have liked to have seen Jan come to terms with pulling that trigger. I'd also have liked to see the reaction of the other Legionnaires to one of their own who was willing to kill, even if it didn't quite work out that way.

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
To be fair, Jeckie had resigned from active membership before her execution of Nemesis Kid. I also like to think the Legionnaires were a bit older and more experienced by then, and more understanding of Jeckie's situation.


I couldn't resist putting the comparison in smile Looking back over the comments though, I'd probably not like to see a group hide behind different membership statuses to excuse actions such as murder. Likewise, it's an issue that being older may or may not make you more likely to forgive such an action. Neither of which I was thinking of when I posted it. smile


Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
Very interesting interpretation of this scene. I thought of it as more of a throwaway line, but I like where you're going with this.


Every little hint helps when it comes to underused characters like Condo. This was a very good issue for him.

I do wonder if he said "that scum deserves to die" before Jan pulled the trigger or just as he was doing it anyway. The former may helped goad Jan into doing it, robbing him of the complete freedom of an action he could then learn from. The latter, which seems more likely considering the depowering of the gun and altering Roxxas' metabolism is just to prevent Superboy acting.

But it's an interesting choice of words. Perhaps the criminality on Phlon gave him a different outlook on justice. It's an outlook that he knows is different as well as he knows the boundaries not to cross. For example, earlier in this story he notes that he could kill the criminals on Haven, but makes the choice not to. That's the choice he gives Jan by stopping Superboy. Jan failed that test, but Condo had taken extra steps to prevent the end of Jan's time in the Legion.

Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
You do a wonderful job of pointing out some unexpected treasures in this story . . .


thanks smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #875792 11/11/15 01:58 PM
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Ayla should have changed her name to Fill Up the Numbers Lass, as she serves the same non-role in 202 and 207's lead story and is conveniently too ill to do anything (except fill the reader in with exposition) in 207's backup.

Yeah, Thom belonged in this story for exactly the reason you state: his own history of killing and being expelled. It would have made more sense, though, if Chem had been the one to not know about Jan's past. Chem hadn't been around that long.

However, the notion of Thom being so self-absorbed that he knows nothing of his teammates' lives has a certain amount of real-world appeal. smile

Adding to the Silver Age sci fi goofiness of the Haven is that Trom, a now uninhabited planet, is left without any guards or sentries or automated warnings. What's to prevent more pirates from looting whatever valuables they can find? What's to prevent another race from colonizing the planet?

*Sigh* Growing up ruins the logic of some of these old stories. smile


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
He Who Wanders #875794 11/11/15 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
However, the notion of Thom being so self-absorbed that he knows nothing of his teammates' lives has a certain amount of real-world appeal. smile


There was that Legion election issue by Levitz/Giffen where he sits around moping about his own bad fortune. In the midst of a team with members who have suffered numerous traumatic events. It might even have been with Wildfire. Me, me, me, me with Thom smile


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
He Who Wanders #875796 11/11/15 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders


Adding to the Silver Age sci fi goofiness of the Haven is that Trom, a now uninhabited planet, is left without any guards or sentries or automated warnings. What's to prevent more pirates from looting whatever valuables they can find? What's to prevent another race from colonizing the planet?


Well, it's (later?) established that the planet is highly radioactive, which presumably would discourage colonists.


Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #875797 11/11/15 02:37 PM
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Good point, EDE, though if the Trommites could survive there, presumably other radiation-resistant species could, too.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #875801 11/11/15 03:26 PM
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Superboy #211 1st story

Following the terrific lead story last issue, #211 gives another story that I've always loved, and upon reread feel that even more so. Shooter really is back; and Grell continued to bring his A-game.

First and foremost, it is an excellent idea to bring back Roxxas, one of those silver age characters that could have easily been lost to obscurity like Kranyak or Molock. Instead Shooter recognized how potent a story his return would be, and he plays it exactly as it should: super-emotional, with Element Lad pulling the story forward as he pursues Roxxas and leads the other Legionnaires a chase.

The theme, a message on revenge, isn't new but it works because it's grounded in characters we love with motivations we understand and share. The twist with Condo at the end adds a layer of heaviness to the story, as Jan was ready to pull the trigger but thankfully is saved by Condo's quick thinking. If only all of us could be saved from our own stupid, petty decisions. Nonetheless, Jan not being the one to make the decision is not an easy answer and that makes it feel genuine and really. Shooter caps it off by Roxxas revealing how haunted he is by his actions which sends Jan's story home.

Btw, love that Condo plays such a great role in this story.

I also love the attention to continuity here. Ayla & Condo joined after Jan did and Thom was on his extended leave; that's good attention to detail. Thom's moment showing his regret in killing Kenz Nuhor is also excellent, and another great throwback to past history that adds weight to the story. HWW spoke about continuity enhancing stories a few pages ago, and his story served as a perfect example.

All in all, there's a lot to love here.

--------------------

Superboy #211 2nd story

The second story starts out a bit slow with me whispering to myself "what the eff is this all about now?" There's great art but it feels pointless. And then quickly, we start to see an interesting twist.

And then finally, a nice little payoff: the Subs! After a few years we get a quick check-in, as they have cool new Grell costumes and get to inherit the Legion's original, iconic headquarters.

It's one of the more forgettable stories, but as a back-up, it's a nice little story that I appreciate. Naturally, Bates is the best at these little novelty gems.

----------------

Letters Page Alert!

Tom Bierbaum is spotted in the letters page gushing about the recent stories!

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #875802 11/11/15 03:42 PM
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A few thoughts on your comments:

- Thoth, nice line of thinking connecting Jan and Roxxas' futures henceforth from this story. You nailed it.

- HWW, great catch seeing Cos visiting Night Girl. I can't recall if they were ever officially dating as of yet?

- Also, good comment on Dirk and his growing comfort with leadership. These moments are small, but as we've said, they craft a subtle development for the character. We've definitely seen this with Dirk again and again.

- regarding Thom's not knowing about Jan's past, I like this line from HWW: "However, the notion of Thom being so self-absorbed that he knows nothing of his teammates' lives has a certain amount of real-world appeal". Yeah, I like that too. Who doesn't know someone like that?

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #875941 11/12/15 12:47 PM
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Our thought on Thom seem to match up with the writers...


From Lightning Lad's thread...

Shooter: A big fullback of a guy, he is slow, steady. faithful, honorable, reliable, loyal, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. And dumb. And probably hung like a horse, which will be the deciding factor in Dream Girl's settling down with him in that isolated observatory.

Bierbaums: Maybe not as bright or as deep as most of his teammates, but Thom is a good man who really believes in the Legion way. And he's determined and earnest enough to make it work. Initially, he and Dream Girl were a good match, but as Nura matured, she came to overshadow him in virtually all areas except simple strength of character, and that's left a gap in Nura's life since they split.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #875957 11/12/15 04:04 PM
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[Off-topic: I just noticed: thoth registered exactly 10 years after Cobie. Great minds and all that.]


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
He Who Wanders #876007 11/13/15 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by He Who Wanders
[Off-topic: I just noticed: thoth registered exactly 10 years after Cobie. Great minds and all that.]


Very cool! Which leads to two major observations:

- there is guaranteed to be another major, incredibly important-to-the-LMB poster who will debut on September 17, 2023. Let the speculation begin now!

- in LMB-fiction, this may mean Thoth is somehow related to me.

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #876008 11/13/15 04:11 AM
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And I'm related to both of you! My birthday is eight days after your registrations, and I was born 40 years before yours and 50 years before thoth's*.


*I'm actually only 28 due to time travel.


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Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #876011 11/13/15 04:51 AM
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Amazingly, I was actually born on my registration date! My parents registered me first thing. I had my user name before I even had my real name.

(okay, okay, we're really getting off on a tangent, I know grin)

Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #876022 11/13/15 08:54 AM
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Later it would be revealed that Cobie travelled back from the Legion's time and has been "arranging" for poster to register at set dates as part of his master plan.

In other news, it was a happy day when thoth found out he was the long lost forum son of Cobie. thoth told eager Omni-reporters and his new dad "Can I get the keys for the time bubble and some walking money for the bar?"

Legion re-read extra! I wonder if Thom was written out, not because the writer's forgot, but because he was too self absorbed to notice he had to be somewhere?

Rereading Shooter's comments I remember being a bit stunned that he thought of them in that way.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #876662 11/17/15 09:13 AM
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Superboy 212

Tinya, Tenzil, Rokk and Salu are transported to WWII after this issue to become “The Losers!” No, forget that. It’s just Calorie Queen bad mouthing our heroes on the cover. Recent issue shave had little bits of the action, or dialogue, appear over the bottom of the large logo. It’s a nice touch. But the issue loses points as the splash page repeats the cover again.

In the world of comics where women are provocatively dressed for their supposedly male audience, Phantom Lad’s skimpy costume shows that balance redressed (if not undressed) in the Legion’s time.

This issue offers us a different take on the tale that formed the Legion of Substitute Heroes. We see a hopeful candidate fail to make the grade, only to end up as part of a super powered group. Except that the reason that these guys can’t get in, is because their powers are already held by resident Legionnaires.

Anyone’s first question would be “Well, what about the two Kryptonians then?” The Legion will try to get round this by saying that “they’re special” or that “one is there for their super breath and the other for super ventriloquism”, but it’s a con.

The rejects are upset, and Cosmic Boy and Chameleon Boy’s dismissal of their challenge will not have helped. Unlike the Subs, the Rejects feel they can power their way onto the team.


The six Legionnaires are taken out very easily by their counterparts. Sure, there’s a message coming up as a payoff to this. But it’s disheartening to see that all that Legion training hasn’t sharpened them up individually.

The book tries so hard usually to make the Legionnaires operate along with Superboy. But he’s cealry on a different level, defeating all six interlopers in seconds. He does use that annoying stretchy cape again. I had no idea it was this popular a device for writers, until this reread thread. It creates a divide between the likes of Superboy and the Legion.

It’s a divide heightened by Cosmic Boy and Cham’s response to Superboy’s intervention. Although they really were beaten, they feel slighted that he had to save them and now they want to turn the tables on the rejects. The Legionnaires don’t look or sound too good at this point in the book, carrying a poor attitude throughout. There are a couple of Rejects who do seem like better prospects if this tale was your only contact with the Legion.

This story had an unpublished page. Following his defeat at the hands of Calorie Queen, Tenzil adopts that standard “I’m not worthy” trope of the Legion. He’s taken to task by Karate Kid. Val feels that, while Superboy has multiple powers, the others think they have to prove themselves to be Legionnaires. He also points out that, while a Legionnaire doesn’t always win, he always fights. Tenzil is left with a decision to make.

Which is why when we return to the published book, Tenzil at first looks uncertain in the return match, and then seemingly runs away.

The Legion win the return battle by using teamwork. They say that it’s this teamwork that allows super heroes to win. Which is odd. None of them thought to plan anything during the several hours they had between fights. It takes Tenzil to remind them of it.

Which is another odd thing, because Tenzil acts alone to defeat Calorie Queen, so team work never came up there. He uses props, but not the help of a colleague. Other oddities include no one spotted Chameleon Boy or Chameleon Kid change into pillars/ trees in the middle of a fight in an uncluttered plaza.

If the Durlans were that good at disguise, there was a chance that Tenzil would have eaten one of them by mistake to win his combat. I dread to think of the internal injuries Cosmic Boy causes Esper Lass by magnetically spinning the iron in her blood.

It’s a straightforward story, built on an older concept. But the execution doesn’t really work. Sometimes this can be due to a limited number of pages, but I’m glad that this one didn’t have more to work with and that it was ended quickly. The Legion’s attitude to both rejects and Superboy was ungracious. They were easily defeated despite being professional versions of the rejects, and they won only because one of them showed some initiative.

The drafting of Tenzil as a Bismollian representative was a well-executed subplot throughout the story. It gives Tenzil’s triumph over self-doubt a capstone after he has also helped his colleagues.

This subplot would be used in a similar way years later in the Levitz run, when Star Boy was summoned to be his home world’s planetary champion.

Another reprise would be Karate Kid’s speech in the unpublished page. Here it distinguishes a gap between Legionnaires and Superboy, highlighted earlier in Superboy’s dispatching the rejects, and the need to constantly prove yourself.

Val would use a very similar speech at the start of the Baxter run. Only there, he would make the distinction between himself and the whole of the Legion. His reasoning there was based around his constant training to maintain his skills, compared to having dependable super powers that always worked when required. His statement that “..A Legionnaire doesn’t always win…” here reminds me of the fatal events following his speech in those Baxter issues.

Of course, it wasn’t just Superboy and Supergirl who had multiple powers. There’s Lar and Jo too. So Val’s lines don’t really hold true for the group, let alone how those powers are used. Val’s speech does highlight the growing number of newer characters who also had multiple powers though. Wildfire and Timberwolf were two and later Bronze Age characters would also have more than one ability. There’s also the growing tendency for characters to develop their super abilities in more powerful ways as time goes on.

So perhaps it marks a point where it’s recognised that there was a definite move towards a Legion in which there were fewer characters with odd ball powers.

Making this point clear was Tenzil’s departure this issue, joining Lu and Chuck on the way out of the group. Tenzil’s unacted upon suggestion that the worthy Calorie Queen could replace him, emphasises the shift.

It also highlights the differences between Superboy and the rest of the Legion, in the minds of the creative team. That's something that would also come to a head alter on.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #876718 11/17/15 04:20 PM
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212/Last Fight

I actually found myself rooting for the rejects in this one. It's about time somebody gave the Legionnaires a comeuppance for their nasty treatment of applicants all through the Adventure run. Our so-called heroes were so mean and arrogant, they would put Steve Jobs to shame.

It was silly, of course, for the rejects to think they could force their way into the Legion, but people have done a lot sillier things. Also, these guys apparently didn't read the fine print on their Legion applications: No duplication of powers. (What, you mean there was no fine print? Then the Legion really does have a lot to answer for. I see a multitude of lawsuits coming.)

What's even more interesting is that some of these rejects are more powerful than the Legionnaires they purport to replace. Surely the Legion could have done something with these promising young would-be heroes: send them to the long unseen Legion Academy perhaps? But the truth of the matter is, the Legionnaires were jealous. That's gotta be the reason.

No, the Legionnaires do not come off well in this story. They let their emotions get the best of them, something no hero should ever do.

From an adolescent's point of view, though, I understood how the Legionnaires felt when I first read this story. They were upstaged in their own headquarters and, to make matters worse, they were upstaged again by Superboy. It would be as if Mommy or Daddy had come running to save Little Rokky from the neighborhood bullies. Win or lose, Little Rokky has to do some things for himself.

So, if the audience for this story is very young, as Boltinoff thought they were (he insisted that the Legionnaires were all about 15 years old, per Shooter in The Legion Companion), it works on an emotional level, but not much else.

Grell can't even be bothered to come up with imaginative costume designs for the rejects, save for Magno-Boy and Calorie Queen. The rest are boring or rip-offs of the Legionnaires' costumes. (What was Phantom Lad thinking? His fixation with Tinya seems to go beyond merely taking her place.)

And so we say goodbye to Tenz, but he had not been a presence in some time. The last issue in which he played an active role was back in # 184, IIRC. So Tenz's departure--his fans notwithstanding--was not a big deal, though the manner of his leaving gets points for being unique. As the Vietnam War had just ended for the US, the prospect of being drafted still loomed in young men's minds (and this prospect may have inspired "Soljer's Private War," as I previously suggested). It was nice to see Shooter introduce this reality into a Legion story and spin it in a new way.

The only other saving grace in this story is Calorie Queen, who, despite a name that's even sillier than that of the Legionnaire she wanted to replace, shows some gumption and personality. It's truly a shame the Legion did not give her a second chance. It makes me wonder why the story ended the way it did, with a near-promise for her return.

(In fact, I was so convinced of her return that, shortly after I read this story, I drew a group picture of the Legion with her in a prominent spot. Imagine how foolish I felt when she did not reappear.)

The "missing page" (which was also published in the Legion Handbook) provides some characterization, but it, too, fails to convince. Tenz has been a Legionnaire for many years now, yet he thinks of giving up just because he was "clobbered by a girl"? How fragile the male ego.




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The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #876719 11/17/15 04:24 PM
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(Oh, and by the way, about the "clobbered by a girl" line--it inspired the final scene in my Legion fanfic, "Myriad," which I linked to some time ago. When Tenz tells Lyle he would probably never get "clobbered by a girl," I was attempting some ironic foreshadowing. I wonder if anyone caught it. hmmm)


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The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #876720 11/17/15 04:58 PM
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212/Death Stroke

So, Cosmic Boy gets two chances to act like a jerk in the same issue. Must be some kind of record.

The first half of this story I like because it focuses on two underutilized female characters, Shadow Lass and Night Girl. They save each other's lives while battling a typical gang of thugs. Then we get a recap of Lydda's origin followed by the reason she went after the gang alone: to prove something to Cosmic Boy, who jilted her that evening because she wouldn't abandon a mission in order to spend time with him.

Cos must have picked up some of Val's attitude from back in 206. Perhaps the Legion boys were suffering from a contagious disease of their own, the prick plague?

In any event, it's at this point that the story turns south--way south. Lydda repays Shady's kindness by telling her to get lost so Lydda can go after the thugs on her own. But the thugs, smugly believing they've killed Lydda, decide to preempt Cosmic Boy's inevitable revenge by killing him. They catch up with Cos just after he's been a jerk again, not allowing his date of the evening to finish the movie they're watching because he finds her as intelligent "as a clam."

Before the villains can off Cos, Lydda catches up them just as the sun rises. She uses the last of her power to dive bomb into the baddies. Then, after being slapped by one of the thugs, she lays there helplessly while Cos gets beats up the bad guys.

So, what could have been a spotlight of female empowerment or a female buddy story turns out to be a setup for the male hero to save the day.

To make matters even more unbelievable, Lydda forgives Rokk for his assholery. Personally, I find their last lines to be rather creepy:

Cos: After you've been checked out, I know a swell spot for a picnic--during the daytime, of course--

Lydda: --when I can't resist you! You know how to reach a girl, don't you?

A girl with very low self esteem, perhaps.

The artwork is better here--particularly in the night-time scenes. There's a lovely shot of Lydda at the bottom of Page 4, and it's nice to see Charles Bronson movies retaining their popularity after a thousand years.


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The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
Re: Re-Reading the Legion: Archives Volume 11
Fanfic Lady #876849 11/18/15 11:22 AM
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Superboy 212 - Backup

I must have got this issue fairly late on. Up until then, I had thought that the Shadow Lass/ Night Girl combo would make an impressive team, without knowing that it had already been done.

I'm also used to seeing Lydda wearing a bit more clothing, so the skimpy outfit was a bit of a surprise too. I thought it was Laurel Kent for a moment.

I'd like to focus on Lydda's selflessness throughout the story. She may be a substitute ("reject" gets another mention), but she takes her role seriously. As she should considering the number of times the Subs have saved the Legion, and how effective they were as a unit, before their comedy spell with Giffen.

Lydda saves Shady's life without thinking of herself. She then saves Rokk, again knowing that it might be the last action she ever takes, and despite their breakup.

And that's what looms in the background of this story. Lydda's relationship with Rokk. He's selfish, conceited and disrespectful. It's not the first time he's been written like this either. He's like that in this issue's first story too.

While he realises how much he misses Lydda, Rokk gets away far too easily as the couple are reconciled in a "happy" ending. I don't think he's really learned any real lesson here. I would have preferred it if Lydda had beaten the interesting group of crooks, to show Rokk that she's a lot more than someone he can make demands of at the drop of a hat.

Having Shady also help in the finale would have shown Rokk that his attitude as a Legionnaire was wrong too. But somehow, I don't think that any of this would have crossed Shooter's mind.

The reprise of Lydda's backstory doesn't do her any favours either. Her father tells her bluntly that he wanted a son. He wants her to be famous to the point that he experiments on her. Since this story has Lydda look up to Rokk as "masculine and secure" perhaps she's seeking approval from a surrogate father figure.

Rokk's macho outlook is further highlighted in this story by his possessiveness over Lydda and taking his replacement date (whose name he gets wrong which is inconsiderate) to see Death Wish CCLXXVI.

There's some problems around Night Girl's powers. Kathoon has lights. They have no sun, but there's heat, power and definitely light since we can see what's going on in the panels. Yet, she's super strong there. So, it should be a property of solar radiation that weakens her (ah, comic science) not just turning on a light, as shown here.

Then there's the issue that every crook knows how her powers work. It's worse than everyone knowing that Projectra's powers are illusion based. At least Jeckie's illusions defy the senses. Lydda is a bit of a sitting duck. Perhaps keeping that information more of a secret would have helped the Legion and the subs a bit more.

Plus points are the early focus on Lydda and Shady; some ncie Grell work; an old fashioned catch the crooks plot and Lydda uses the last of her power as the sun rises.

A final thought on Rokk. Take his attitude here and in a number of stories: Selfish, conceited etc. Then add in that he can be pushed to vengeance (the firebombing attack on his family). Add to that his interest in history and time travel along with the dark, terrible future he's supposed to have. And the reveal of him being the Time Trapper is as plausible as a number of other options.

"And at the end of days, the Trapper sat alone amidst the ruins of aeons. Alone, because every woman knew what a tool he was. Rokk Krinn: Trapper Tool."














"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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