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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
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I've been finding Death in the Family to be better than average but not anything to write home to Mom about. I don't know what it is, but Snyder's Batman while always good just never feels "great" to me since the relaunch.
Meanwhile, I did enjoy the John Layman Detective issues so far. Strong characterization, smart plotting and fantastic art.
I wish DC would make the back-up series worthwhile though instead of an obvious fill-in to make us spend an extra $1.00. Why not give us something cool and offbeat like Nemesis or Enlongated Man? Or get those of us who hate Damien (ahem, still me!) to find a reason to like him by having some solo backups? Instead its just more shit stories about the villains that does nothing to showcase how great they are.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 29,248
Time Trapper
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Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 29,248 |
I'm only getting Batman and am trying out 'Tec because of Layman (only read one ish so far).
Got to say, not a big fan of the Death of the Family story. I just never envisioned the Joker as the Boogeyman/Hannibal Lector, yet that's what he is now. I grant you, he's incredibly dangerous and a stone-cold killer. But this story is basically bodies piled sky-high with the bad-guy being ten steps ahead of you.
I like to think that Joker stories are a bit more artful and complex than this. I like how in "The Dark Knight" he's a force of anarchy with a complex plan to try to achieve it. Here, there's nothing subtle about him. And the new look is just trrible, an obvious way to emphasize that he's the boogeyman now, I suppose.
Yes, it's suspenseful and well-told, but DotF could be a generic story told with any number of villains as the antagonist, imo.
Glad I'm way past the point where I pick up all tie-ins to a story.
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188 |
Things are getting wild in Batman Inc. as Talia unleashes the full force of Leviathan. Dick's pinned down by enemies he can't fight, Jason's in trouble after a betrayal, Tim's walking into Leviathan HQ alone, Batman's locked in a safe at the bottom of a pool and the rest of the team is under heavy fire.
Looks like it's all up to Robin.
This book still rocks. I hope Morrison ignores any new 52 continuity and just goes all out the next few issues.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 144
Substitute
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Substitute
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 144 |
It's weird, but I've lately found Batman Incorporated to be pretty much godawful for the past few issues. Nothing. Is. Happening. Every issue since, like, #3, has been the EXACT SAME THING. It's like Morrison ran out of story and is stalling for time.
In that respect, Death of the Family has been FAR more satisfying, since at least every issue of that has freaking FORWARD MOMENTUM, and every issue has me both wanting to know what happens next and DREADING what happens next.
Also, if none of you picked it up, get the Batman & Robin Annual. It is seriously the best Batman story I've read in years.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188 |
I think it may be Burnham's art. A LOT of stuff happened last issue, but it seem a little static. Despite criticism he's a Quietly knock-off, I think he lacks the kinetic flow of Quietly that makes the pages seem like they are moving at breakneck speed. I know he's been key for keeping the book on track because he's more timely than the previous artists, but there are some things lost a little.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 144
Substitute
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Substitute
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 144 |
I don't think the art had anything to do with it. I mean, in terms of big stuff we found out, we had the Heretic's origin--which, frankly, has been pretty freaking obvious for a while now. The Hood betrays the group, but that's something we knew was going to happen for a while. Finally, Knight's death was confirmed--but all the Incorporated members outside of Batman and Robin (really makes me wonder what the freaking point was of Incorporated in the first place if Morrison's last story was simply going to be a Batman & Robin story) have been so under-utilized and basically there to fill up space that it feels very anti-climatic and pointless.
That's it. Outside of that, we get a whole lot of the other Robins standing around pretending they're doing something. The same lines about "Talia really wants to take over the world and mess with you" that we've gotten for the past four issues. The same gag of "normal people turning into Leviathan slaves."
I feel at this point that everything from this volume so far, including the two flashback/flash-forward issues, could be condensed down into four issues with relative ease.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 29,248
Time Trapper
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Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 29,248 |
Y'know, it's kinda hard to believe that DK3 is so highly anticipated and promoted. Has everyone forgotten what a huge disappointment DK2 was?!? Or how about the travesty that was All-Star Batman & Robin?!? Are people's memories that short?!?!?
Still "Lardy" to my friends!
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188 |
It's all hype on DC's part, and I'm sure it's the variant covers that are pushing the project right now.
Also, don't forget as maligned as ASB&R was, it sold really, really well. I know, I don't get it either.
And finally, they don`t care if there are 20 unsold copies at your Comic Shop, they were paid for this as soon as the orders were placed.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
What bothers me the most is that it's subtitled "The Master Race". This from a creator whose greatest heroes -- Will Eisner, Bernie Krigstein, Jack Kirby, Gil Kane -- were all Jewish.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,640
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,640 |
Was there not some heated discussions between miller and DC somewhere between #2 & #3 of the sequel, due to the terrible reaction to it?
It had a huge amount of hype, and after so many decent Elseworlds stories, there was always a good chance that it wouldn't live up to it.
But hey, I bought it and that's really the only thing DC cares about. No doubt they're hyping this one and glossing over the last one, hoping for the same thing. But I'll not be buying it. I've read a lot worse than DK2, but that's really not an excuse to encourage them.
I'd like to think I avoided All Star Batman due to some previews
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
IIRC, Miller was forced by DC to change the ending because of the September 11 attacks, something to do with Batman becoming a full-on terrorist.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,640
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,640 |
Thanks Fickles. I don't remember ever reading any details, only that there was some sort of problem, right around the same time I was reading lots of negative reactions to it.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
No probs, Thoth.
I, personally, have never understood what was supposed to be so great about Frank Miller, not even Daredevil, Ronin, and his first Dark Knight mini.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
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Other than the DC hype machine, I don't know of a single person looking forward to this.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,640
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,640 |
No probs, Thoth.
I, personally, have never understood what was supposed to be so great about Frank Miller, not even Daredevil, Ronin, and his first Dark Knight mini. boys and toys + boys the timeless "who would win in a fight between..." + grim and gritty violence towards the UK level of comicdom. = $Kerching$ Obviously, I own it
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
Hee hee hee
Point well taken, Thoth.
Ironically enough, Miller has been friends for 30 years with Flint Dille, my favorite writer of the original Transformers cartoon.
Needless to say, after I found this out, I crossed "Meeting Flint Dille at a convention" off my list of priorities.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,640
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,640 |
Don't knock it. Accessorizing the gadgets in Batman's utility belt is as close as some guys get to their feminine side Miller has provided a great service for them.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
If only Miller would keep his big mouth shut, I'd take more of a "to each their own" stance.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,640
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,640 |
I just read the funny books
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 84,556
Unseen, not unheard
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Unseen, not unheard
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 84,556 |
Y'know, it's kinda hard to believe that DK3 is so highly anticipated and promoted. Has everyone forgotten what a huge disappointment DK2 was?!? Or how about the travesty that was All-Star Batman & Robin?!? Are people's memories that short?!?!? I remember DK2 being a mess, and avoided All-Star because of some previews I saw. So yeah...
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,188 |
No probs, Thoth.
I, personally, have never understood what was supposed to be so great about Frank Miller, not even Daredevil, Ronin, and his first Dark Knight mini. It's all about context. DKR was pretty groundbreaking at the time. There are jabs at politics, pop culture and comics themselves. There were several taboos broached, and someone took Batman to an extreme extrapolation of what O'Neil started. Was it all ham-fisted and over-the-top? Probably, but it was also mostly unheard of in a mainstream comic, certainly a Batman comic. Now, much like "Watchmen", people unfortunately took the wrong stuff away from it (including, ironically, Miller), and it irrevocably changed Batman comics forever, and comics in general as the age of Grm N' Gritty was born. But on it's own DKR has a lot more to offer than that. Subsequent Miller works get progressively worse IMHO.
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and Batman & Robin
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872
More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
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More Polyanna than Poison Ivy
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,872 |
Point taken, Dave, but I feel about DK1 pretty much the same way I feel about the TV show "Lost" -- they both did things no one had done before in their respective genres, but I feel they did most of them badly, and I even question if they were worth doing in the first place.
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Re: DC Comics Rebirth
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 34,634
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Batman - I feel like I missed an issue. The Gothams demonstrate how dangerous superpowered beings are - an apt issue in the Bat universe. Duke has a good moment, but I want more. I thought Batman #3, with the origin of the Gothams, was fantastic. Now I'm invested in them (and considering this is Batman's world, I'm worried about them).
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and All-Star Batman
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,188
#deleteFacebook
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#deleteFacebook
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,188 |
Batman - I feel like I missed an issue. The Gothams demonstrate how dangerous superpowered beings are - an apt issue in the Bat universe. Duke has a good moment, but I want more. I thought Batman #3, with the origin of the Gothams, was fantastic. Now I'm invested in them (and considering this is Batman's world, I'm worried about them). I tend to think that Batman #5 is going to involve Batman pushing the artificially-terrified Gotham Girl into fighting her brother. And, given the later solicits, whatever happens won't end well for her psychologially...
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Re: Batman, Detective Comics and All-Star Batman
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Joined: Sep 2003
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'Boot, are you reading Batman? I would never have thought to ask, but I really hope you are!
And yeah, even without reading the solicitations, which I've been avoiding for comics I already know I'm buying, I can tell where this is going probably will leave both of them traumatized.
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