Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION The Anywhere Machine The Star Wars Episode VII Thread You're Looking For -- Warning: Super-Spoileriffic!

Believe it or not, the novelization of Phantom Menace was actually pretty decent. I don't mean this facetiously because I did enjoy TFA. Just sayin'.

(The novelization of Revenge of the Sith was REALLY good, I thought.)

BTW, I noticed that Marvel hasn't done a comics adaptation of TFA. I know comics adaptations of movies are very uncommon these days, but this would be the first Star Wars Episode to not be adapted for comics. (Dark Horse adapted the prequels while they had the license.)

Looks like Edie's Emo Kylo Ren thingie has tickled Bleeding Cool's fancy!

I took the wife and kids to see it on Christmas Day. I still had the same complaints (though I did enjoy it more the second time around). My oldest daughter, like me, was let down by the second half and walked away disliking it. My youngest thought it was OK. My wife and son LOVED it. Like Blacula, they saw the same flaws I did (With my son even verbally checking off moments "Here's the Obi-Wan moment, here's the Death Star Moment, etc."), but emphatically didn't care.

So there you go, split decision.

Very Lonely Luke is getting in on the act!

(personally I think Emo Kylo Ren is better)

Yeah, the Luke one isn't doing much for me.

I'm really liking the TR-8R Facebook parody page.

I just saw Bad Father Han Solo, which looks pretty funny.

The problem is, part of the reason Star Wars did as well as it did, is because these are Archetypes. I have heard it said that Lucas based the Original Trilogy on Campbellian Archetypes; which basically makes the argument that humans have been recycling the same stories over and over again because they appeal to us. The website TV Tropes documents this more fully than I can explain in one post.

It's not original, and the movie even lampshades itself at several points (most notably when Han says it is just a bigger Death Star, and the female enemy commander said disabling the shileds is useless). But the director definitely followed the Campbellian archetypes to the letter. And that's why the movie isn't really a bad story, because it contains all the elements of a good story.

Some people on the interwebz think that Snoke may actually be Darth Plagueis. Plagueis was Palapatine's master before Palpatine killed him. The supposed smoking gun is that Snoke's music is apparently similar to the theme played when Palpatine told Anakin Plagueis's story in Episode III. Plagueis, you may recall, supposedly had the power to stop people from dying, something that appealed to Anakin after his vision of Padme dying.

Interesting idea, but I seriously doubt it. Especially do because Disney appears to be distancing itself as much as possible from the prequels without outright contradicting them. However, there was apparently a discarded plan to have Hayden Christiansen appear as force ghost Anakin in TFA, so it's not beyond the realm of possibility.

That is an interesting idea, Paladin. It is a a little obscure, but the III was the best prequel (I know that doesn't mean much) and the most recent movie before this one so it would make sense to tie it all together somehow. A person my age grew up with the prequels and maybe saw the original trilogy if their parents like Star Wars.

Do kids today have a general idea what Star Wars is from the toys/cartoons?

My experience is that teenagers and younger who are familiar with Star Wars know The Clone Wars animated series better than anything else.

My 16-year old cousin started out with the Clone Wars, and only watched the original trilogy after watching those. He mostly talks about the Clone Wars.



That is true. Although I think one reason for the number of complaints is because, Force Awakens was more obvious about it by not only reusing these archetypes... but by recycling them in the same forms as in the original trilogy.

Saw the movie earlier today.

Emily makes an excellent point that the movie is based on archetypes, and that's why it virtually rips off "A New Hope" but doesn't feel like a ripoff. Rather, it feels like these characters are going through some repeated themes and events in their lives . . . which is sad, really. It means the huge sacrifices of their earlier efforts amounted to nothing. No wonder Luke got discouraged.

Speaking of Luke, one of the aspects I did like was the way the movie ended. The whole movie defies our expectations of seeing all the gang back together. It just doesn't happen. I would argue that this is a strength of the film; consider, for contrast, the often forced "reunions" of the old Star Trek films. (In one film, Worf shows up and gets interrupted before he can explain why he's there.) The movie sacrifices our expectations for the sake of the story (which is built on a quest to find Luke)--and, for the most part, I think it succeeds.

Some have called the ending anticlimactic, and I can see their point. There's not the big reveal of Luke doing anything. He's just standing on a mountain. Yet that scene hit all the right emotional chords with me. Consider: Rey is the last potential Jedi yet still has a lot to learn; only Luke can teach her. When she sees him, it gives us hope that Luke can train her and possibly a new generation of Jedis to be what they need to be.

The most emotional aspect of the scene, however, is when she offers him his old light sabre. There is just something in his expression . . . a recognition of "home," perhaps, or a destiny he can't outrun . . . a feeling that something he has been waiting for has arrived . . . a new new hope?

I think this ending makes sense when one considers the Force and the enormous number of coincidences that seem to happen throughout the film (Rey and Finn finding the Millennium Falcon and then being tracked by Han and Chewie). The Force has often been equated with spirituality--the "force that binds all living things together," a description often applied to God. In this context, perhaps Luke senses that Rey's arrival is the Force at work.

All of this is conveyed, or at least implied, without dialogue. I love it that Luke says nothing. There is nothing he could say that would improve the scene. Much depends on the viewer's imagination and interpretation. The last shot--panning around the mountain as she holds the life sabre out and he stands there frozen--is an iconic moment, a sense that something momentous is happening.

At least that's how I took it.

I disagree. I firmly believe that it's actually one step removed form that and they only absorbed the archetypes in that they were a fabric of the first movie. The intention was to hit the nostalgia buttons hard and replicate scenes from the first movie, the archetype repetition was secondary to that calculation. And look, it worked. Every time I try to explain what I dislike about the movie, people just look at me and say "So?". They very clearly gave the majority what they wanted and it's been a massive success both lucratively and in terms of fan reaction, so good for them. It's just not something I liked as much as I wanted to, so I'm moving on.

I took my nieces to see it and THEY LOVED IT. That was kind of cool - watching them enjoy it, get excited and even a little scared. They were shocked and sad at Han's death and cheered Rey (especially since my oldest niece is named Rae).

As for me, I thoroughly got lost in the scope of the vision. I enjoyed the way that the camera would pull back to these amazingly massive terrains. I also thought the last scene was breathtaking with its use of an actual landscape (vs. the green screen that Lucas was so enamored of).

The cantina scene was a bright moment for me - seeing the world fully realized and the thrill of this bar that is just seedy enough to look fun.

The new cast was overshadowed by the depth of the older cast but the new ones were fairly capable introductions (IMO). After seeing the film, the hoopla about Finn's race seemed even more ridiculous.

The villain seemed less powerful and frightening without his helmet. There was a trick of scale being used (as the actual actor is over 6' tall and yet he and Rey are pretty much eye-to-eye in their duel) and I wonder if they intend to reduce the trick as the series progresses (to make him more intimidating).

The story was much thinner than I was expecting. I kind of lost the plot for a bit with the death star planet thing, as it seemed so secondary to the scenery. At least to me.

I know that when I saw the film, I though Coruscant was among the planets destroyed by the Starkiller. Apparently not, though?

No. I'm assuming the First Order must be headquartered on Coruscant? Because that the only explanation I can think of for the New Republic not using it.

Didn't what we saw of one of the destroyed planets kind of look like it, though? I remember the person (a stranger) next to me obviously thought the same thing as he muttered "not Coruscant" when it happened.

Yeah, whatever the capital of the Republic was did look a lot like Coruscant, as I recall.

But Luke does speak in the trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngElkyQ6Rhs

“The force is strong in my family. My father had it. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power, too.”

He doesn’t seem to be talking to anyone in this particular movie. This could be a flashback to Ben was little, who is actually pretty weak with the force, or a flash-forward to Rey, who may or may not be a Skywalker. Maybe this will be answered in Episode VIII?

One other question that has been nagging at me is “Why Poe Dameron?”

I mean, obviously he is necessary to get the BB8 into Finn’s hands, which also gets Finn and Rey together, and to explain why the BB8 is so important.

But why does he have to come back from the dead? Why can’t some other character lead the attack on Starkiller Base? He seems pretty unimportant, to the first movie at least. Maybe his character and purpose will be more developed in Episode VIII?

The longer I have been out of the theater, the less this movie makes sense. Perhaps it is just that I don't like loose ends.

It's a sound bite, slightly re-arranged, from Return of the Jedi (He's talking to Leia).

I've never seen the trailers. I'm glad this dialogue was omitted from the movie; it would add nothing to the scene.

I confess my appalling ignorance.

Well, Rey and Finn have both have very sheltered lives in their own way (Rey literally living on a remote desert planet and Finn being brainwashed with the enemy's point of view). The movies need someone knowledgeable to explain things to the audience.

^Just to be clear, the above quote is from Sue Pergirl, not from me.

Not only does Poe explain things, but he's also a great character--charismatic, heroic, irreverent towards Kylo Ren ... someone we've spent much of the first part of the movie getting to know. It would be a shame to let all of that go to waste.