Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Spaceopoly Kill This Thread XV: The Eleventh Twenty-Four Hour Thread

Not that I'm drawing this out buuuuut... I think my point was that there were a couple of older Legion issues that showed Jo having all of these characteristics.

Details may be in those posts, but what I do remember was my genuine surprise that TMK *hadn't* had to read between the lines really. It was pretty much there to be lifted rather than created or interpreted.

Jo's general prominence in the run probably didn't help having all that added on top. Some characters ended up like Dawnstar, while Jo gets the Glorith/Mordru secret bit, the lost in time bit, the smuggling part *and* the lost partner subplot too.

In the general Giffen Legion redux, Jo also became the powered down version of Mon El & Superboy. It's just as well that Laurel was also on the team, or it could have been even more lop sided in giving him panel time. While I like a classic Mon El/ Superboy story, I did also like having a more vulnerable hero.

Eye of the beholder, Thoth, eye of the beholder.



Poor Dawnstar, though. She deserved a lot better than what they did to her. And I know for a fact that even some fans of that run objected to that subplot, for both its vicious treatment of her and for the general execution of the relevant scenes.

It's nice when we agree. I seem to remember us doing it before... about two years ago... it was a Thursday

From that intro page showing what loads of characters were up to (more annoying than teasing), to joining them but not being recognised (except for the villain who spots it right away having possibly never met her before), to the needlessly violent removal of Bounty... to sitting around doing sod all for the rest of the run.

In the end, she could have been left out of the book entirely. And good intentions or half formed ideas don't really work when there's not the control of execution in place.

Now Black Knight, *there* was a Mary Sue... tee hee hee...

I can think of a few instances in the Adventure Era where Jo showed hints of deep cleverness. His intro issue for example.

Black Knight! I would rather not comment on him

I agree with poor Dawnstar. She deserved better.

Brace yourself, Thoth...*I don't entirely disagree with you* about the Black Knight.

SURPRISE!!

To me, the best things that came out of yours and He Who's objective, no-expectations analysis of my favorite Avengers era was that many of the critiques that both of you made were, upon reflection, perfectly valid as far as I'm concerned.

And Dane *was* one of them. Probably no scene underline that better than the one in the final act of the Gatherers Saga, where Dane single-handedly out-fights almost the entire 2nd wave of Gatherers -- including a Thing/Hulk hybrid and a beefy (lizard-meaty?) reptile-man. Either one of them should have easily wiped the floor with him, especially the Crypto-Grimm-Banner. I'd also like to think that Sliver, the Elektra-analog-of-sorts, could also have single-handedly defeated him; it would have redressed the balance of Dane hitting Natasha when his Gann-Josin mind-link had driven him almost completely over the edge (I know, temporary insanity and/or Sersi's mind-domination of him could be offered as semi-credible outs, *but* in final accounting, it *was* still just as wrong as when Hank Pym did it to Janet Van Dyne.) I'd actually managed to block that last scene out of my mind in the years leading up to that re-read, for obvious reasons.

To summarize, I still love a lot of things about that era, and it's still my favorite Avengers era, but thanks to you and He Who, I have a better, more well-rounded perspective on its pros and cons.

I remember your thoughts from those Avengers posts. I wouldn't have posted the above, even in jest, had I not known you were receptive to it.

They're not just quips you know. I slave away at 'em all, slave I tells ya! Then, just as they become the dearest thing to me, I let them go into the forums with a tear in my eye... >sniff< reaches for hanky >HOOOOOONK!<

I'm impressed at how vividly you remember that run. I really have to get back into the Legion rereads. I had got right up to Earthwar, and I'm not sure I've ever read it in order before.

I used to have a friendly argument with a friend about the pronunciation of Sir Gawain's name, as in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.

He would say ga-WAYNE. I said GOW-en.

Thoth, thanks for the kind words, and I look forward to seeing you rejoin the Legion re-read (as it happens, I'll be dropping by there again next week and the week after that to review the 2-parter introducing the League of Super-Assassins.)

Rocky, I'm imagine you probably won't be offended, but I do have to admit that I pronounce it ga-WAYNE.

I always have trouble with pronouncing words. Even English words, sometimes. 8t is one thing to know how to use them in written English, and another to know how to pronounce them...

Popeye always pronunskiates words correctly.

Green Knight: Well, you had yer chance ta finish me off. It'll be mah turn tomorrow.
Undertaker: When?
Green Knight: Noon. High Noon.

- John Gwayne stars in Showdown at the Camelot Corral. Soon at LW!

So many participants in this crossover.

But is it a good crossover, like "The X-Cutioner's Song", or a bad one, like "Millennium"?

X-Cutioner's song is good, but I'm partial to X-Tinction Agenda as far as X-Men crossovers go.

I don't think I've ever read a full X-Men crossover.

Those things happen way too often for my taste

They kind of started getting out of hand in the 90's.

Ya think?



I never even read Age of Apocalypse in its entirety until years later, when it was all collected in multiple trades. And it wasn't even that good.

Re: X-Cutioner's Song vs X-Tinction Agenda, the former was mostly Fabian Nicieza's baby, and I really love a lot of what he wrote during the first half of the 90s (and although Peter David hated, and I mean *hated* working on it, he managed to contribute some choice bon mots and a couple good action sequences. The latter felt more like a story-by-committee-with-the-editor-and-the-artists-calling-all-the-shots, and the nominal writers, Claremont the burnout and Weezie the bound-for-friendlier-climes-little-pixie (as in DC, of course), reduced to not doing much more than rubber-stamping generic dialogue. Just my opinion.

EDIT: Them issues drawn by that Jim Lee feller were mighty pretty ta lookit, tho.

Another tiresome thing about all these X-Men crossovers is the sheer number of shock value deaths.

Especially in the alternate realities such as Age of Apocalypse.

Bah! One day, you heathens will understood the misunderstood genius of Claremont's Outback X-Men run!

Not bloody likely, Kappa my friend, not bloody likely.

I do love me a nice juicy steak from Outback, though.

(Sorry, Rocky, I know how much you dislike red meat. But you know me, always go for the cheap and obvious joke.)

The Outback restaurant chain is fairly popular here in the Philippines.

I actually went to Outback a few weeks ago for a roommate's birthday, but was feeling too cheap to spend on a steak. I ended up filling up on a cheap(er) appetizer instead.

I did that to save money while I was working in LA

I was wanting a steak dinner last night. There is an Outback in my area, but I did not go there.

I very much love the honey mustard dip they give with fries.