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A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
#957801 08/31/18 01:53 PM
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PRELUDE:

When all is said and done, the only real question is: was "Crisis on Infinite Earths" (henceforth, "CoIE" for short) worth it? And I've lost track of the number of consecutive years that my response would invariably have been a blunt "NO."

But that might change within the next several weeks, or however long it takes to re-read and review "CoIE" from what is, hopefully, a fresh perspective for me, after my having deliberately avoided it altogether for a very long time.

Understand, however, that I have no default dislike of event storylines/mega-crossovers in an of themselves. There have been many which, for me at least, almost made the grade; a few I genuinely liked; even a couple that I loved.

My hostility towards "CoIE," I now realize, has had mostly to do with how, in an effort to make the DC Universe continuity more accessible, more consistent, and more coherent, "CoIE" arguably had the opposite of its intended effect, making the DCU even more unfriendly to casual readers than it was already becoming by the early-mid 1980s. I have even begun to feel recently that DC's *true* creative and artistic renaissance had already happened, in the aftermath of the 1978 "DC Implosion." Nearly everything I still find readable and enjoyable from the Post Silver Age DC was published between 1979 and 1982! At the same time, I am not blind to the hard truth that far too few people had been paying attention to DC since after the Implosion. So clearly, a publicity stunt was needed.

But a stunt of *this* magnitude? That's hard to say, even after all this time.

Let's find out together, shall we?


REVIEW: "Crisis on Infinite Earths" issue 1, "The Summoning"

Writer/Editor: Marv Wolfman
Penciler: George Perez
Inker: Dick Giordano
Letterer: John Costanza
Colorist: Anthony Tollin
Associate Editor: Robert Greenberger
Consulting Editor: Len Wein

The Perez gatefold cover, to my jaded, middle-aged eyes, is none too promising. The best parts of it -- the sinister face blending into the starscape, the string of shattering Planet Earths, is forced into the background, in favor of foregrounding an admittedly intriguing mixture of DCU characters old and new, borrowed and blue floating around in outer space. The poses are not only uninspired, but also over-dramatic even by superhero comic standards, to the point of being unintentionally funny. The funniest, predictably, is Pariah, hogging far too much of the cover's lower-right-hand corner. Ah, Pariah, the Jar-Jar Binks of 80s superhero comics, having retroactively become "Exhibit A" when judging the decades-long writing career of Marv Wolfman and looking for something to point to and snark, "See, I *told* you Wolfman's overrated.") Worse yet, the opening page turns out to be the standard verbose and portentous and over-serious 80s set-up. And worst of all, Pages 2 and 3 are a spotlight on Pariah, instantly reminding us of why we hate this sad excuse for a pretender to the ancient mariner mantle, a trope which was already cliché in genre fiction even back in 1985!

BUT WAIT!

The readers are abruptly shifted to another part of this same crumbling universe, and we are told this is Earth-3, the one where all the analogs of familiar super-folks are evil, while the world's greatest and most noble would-be savior is Lex Luthor! Who is married to Lois Lane, and who is now the proud papa of a Junior Lex. Unfortunately, the kid won't get any love from his parents, because the whole world is falling down around them, and they feel they must rocket him away to a safer haven, where his prolonged survival is at least a possibility. En route to saving his son from certain doom, Lex Senior makes one last, desperate effort to help the super-villains-turned-reluctant anti-heroes save their world.

The above sequence is a very welcome reminder that Marv Wolfman could sometimes be a very good superhero fiction writer indeed. The sureness of the story beats, the economical yet efficient characterization (Ultra-Man turning noble just before meeting is fate is particularly heart-stirring), and the way in which the writer portrays the Luthor family facing its end as both a loving homage to the Superman origin story and a clever inversion which doesn't hit us over the head with how ding-dang clever the writer thinks it is.

And George Perez, too, gives us a reason to stand up and remember how good he could be in his prime, especially with an inker as estimable as the late, great Dick Giordano. The artwork matches Wolfman every step of the way in terms of clarity, concision, and craft.

This covers the first 8 pages of the 32 which make up "CoIE" #1. I'll be back later to pick up from there.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #957813 08/31/18 06:21 PM
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REVIEW: CoIE #1 (Continued)

The inter-dimensional pod carrying Baby Luthor reaches its intended destination in the universe known as Earth-1, but in a tragic bit of irony, said destination is the recently shattered and abandoned Justice League of America Satellite Headquarters. Here Perez really impresses me with a well-designed page that explains volumes by itself, and Wolfman compliments the art nicely by keeping the captions spare and to the point.

There follows an equally impressive two-page spread of another satellite located...somewhere-elsewhere, nicely bookended with inset panels on the upper and lower margins. Inside, readers are introduced to Lyla, an attractive but rather nondescript blue-eyed blonde young woman, who is on the verge of becoming...something. There is some cryptic and stilted banter between her and a mysterious other sentient, this one male. Whoever he is, he is annoyingly evasive and condescending to Lyla in his curt replies to her perfectly reasonable questions (such as, why, with the very fate of existence itself at stake, is she supposed to gather what will turn out to be such a rum hotch-potch of superheroes and supervillains?) Lyla drops a none-too-subtle hint that she's had just about enough of this guy's fatuous nonsense, but then she goes ahead with his plan anyway. Well, at least this leads to a very well-drawn sequence of the satellite's tech transforming her into some kind of super-beyond-super sentient named Harbinger, and splitting her up into multiple selves, so that each can go and find an individual super-being across various universes. Now alone aboard the satellite, Mr. Cosmic Voyeur continues to obsess about how the Luthor child is an unexpected boon, but everything might be too late anyway (chin up, old boy!)

Next, we are treated to some, but not all of the various Harbinger-dupes' missions. Solovar, the King of Gorilla City, goes with her most reluctantly, and right after he "benevolently" sentences a dissident ape to brainwashing...oooookay. Dawnstar, the Legion of Super-Heroes' expert tracker from the 30th Century, girds herself for a confrontation, but it turns out to be a moot point when Harbinger simply *yanks* her away (sheesh.)

But the next summoning, Firebrand of the World War 2 era heroes the All-Star Squadron, that sequence remains as cute and charming as ever, with Harbinger having the good manners to wait until after Firebrand, in civilian guise, has used her powers to help an acquaintance in need of a quick light for her oven. Then we get a rousing introduction to Blue Beetle, the Ted Kord iteration, back when he still had the potential to become DC's own Spider-Man or Captain America (no offense, JLI fans, but I am, quite simply, not a fan of what Ted became instead.)

As yet another Harbinger searches for Arion Lord of Atlantis (a Marvel-style mystical character whom I feel has always gotten a bad rap,) she is ambushed by...um...a silhouette? Cut to an insane asylum on Earth-2 where villain Psycho Pirate has been locked up since his confrontation with the modern-day JSA, where, at least some readers might recall, he drove Green Lantern Alan Scott, the most powerful sentient in the Earth-2 universe, into a destructive frenzy (no wonder Harbinger is questioning the mystery guys' choices!) Meanwhile, the possessed Harbinger dupe gets off on the wrong foot with Arion, to put it mildly, and almost lets him fall to his death (oh yeah, this gathering is going real smooth.)

Then it gets really weird and creepy: Firestorm, DC's breakout star of the tail-end of the Bronze Age, is having suicidal ideations (WHAT?) because the Harbinger dupe assigned to find him claims that they also need one of his most vicious and plain-crazy rouges, Killer Frost, to come along for the gathering. And when KF, predictably, gets homicidal, in step the dupe and Psycho Pirate so that PP can...invade KF's mind and force her to fall in love with Firestorm (and THIS is supposed to be FUNNY?)

Um...this is, to put it mildly, an awkward place to take the next break, but it is Page 24, so mathematically it makes sense...I think. Anyhow, I'll cover the final 8 pages of "CoIE" #1 tomorrow.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #957918 09/01/18 02:41 PM
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REVIEW: "CoIE" #1 (Conclusion)

These last 8 pages were actually the hardest for me to review, because everything just feels so rote and schematic, as if Wolfman and Perez felt obligated to provide readers with a sequence that even they knew was going to be just one stale superhero trope after another, so they both phoned it in. Even Giordano's inks are a cut below his work on the previous pages (am I the only one who noticed that Arion's hair gets shorter than before, and then long again?)

Here, our motley crew of metas finally meets up, and the inside of the satellite is finally revealed, and I'm afraid that I have to admit that even when I first read this story (at about age 19, some 7 years after it was originally published,) my reaction to a lot of the art (and particularly the designs) was, "Uh...yeah, it's not bad at all, but it just looks so...I dunno, unimaginative, like it's less than the sum total of Perez's influences," and then again, I do realiize that very few people my age were seriously into the late period Silver Age/early period Bronze Age artists who had inspired Perez, like I was.

And just as the banter-by-numbers threatens to make my eyes glaze over, the metas are attacked by more of those darned silhouettes, like the one who possessed Harbinger dupe number 32432808. Mystery Guy turns out to have had the means all along to make the attackers scatter like roaches and exit the satellite. All he has to do is...turn up the lights. Perhaps recognizing his failings as a host (and perhaps justifiably worried that the out-and-out psychos like Frost and Polaris might turn on him, seeing as he almost got everybody killed,) he finally deigns to introduce himself. He is...THE MONITOR!

(Crickets chirping)

(To paraphrase Peter Allen David via Linda Danvers in a 2003 issue of "Supergirl," someone should've quipped, "What's your cousin's name, "Screen Saver?"")

(And...Gods, how can I possibly keep a straight face at the way the Monitor looks? A receding hairline made uglier by white-dude cornrows, tufts of facial hair on his cheeks like some clueless old arena-rock guitarist, a craggy brow with no eyebrows, and a suit of battle armor sporting every Perez design cliche!)

An awkward start, then. Hopefully, "CoIE" will improve soon.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #957924 09/01/18 04:37 PM
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I was not incredibly impressed with CoIE #1, but I was a long way from hating it. I think that it's overall strength was that it set up very well the series to come as an opening chapter to a major event. You open up setting up a major, major threat, possibly the biggest any series had ever attempted up to that point. You see one unnamed earth die in the opening moments and then another, more familiar one dies immediately thereafter.

The death of Earth-3 is now and was at the time the most effective sequence in the issue. I had experienced two of the annual JLA/JSA crossovers "live" as a reader, the second of which was the one that crossed over with All-Star Squadron and also featured the Crime Syndicate of Earth-3. I was also an avid reader of DC Comics Presents. In its first annual, Earth-3's Alexander Luthor was introduced. As I kid, I was wowed by those stories and how they showcased the concepts of an evil JLA on a world in which the only hero was a version of Lex Luthor. With those stories still fresh in my mind, it was this sequence that showed me that Crisis was really serious about the stakes of its concept. These were major characters to me, and I felt both sad and awed that they were suddenly gone.

And it still carries that weight for me, even though versions of the Crime Syndicate have since returned. Really, having a version of Lex Luthor basically playing the Jor-El role was and is a beautiful idea that makes this issue work, as was seeing Ultra-Man trying to go out a hero. Without this sequence, the issue wouldn't have been terribly effective. The rest is fairly colour-by-numbers: huge threat introduced, search for characters to help out, some preliminary conflict, find out who's pulling the strings. It could have been half of the plot of a typical Len Wein, etc. JLA story. But what happened on Earth-3 gave me the emotional connection I needed to become invested and kind of overlook the more pedestrian elements of the issue.

I also overlook some of the more hokey elements of the story that Fick mentions, particularly the groan-inducing Killer Frost manipulation by Psycho Pirate. It was meant to inject a little levity, I'm sure, but in a modern context it feels wrong. I'll chalk it up to a product of its time. I've certainly seen similar things done in my Silver and Bronze Age reads.

I'm also less critical of Perez's designs. There are really very few of his costume and character designs I don't like, and Pariah, Harbinger and the Monitor all look okay to me. And Pariah himself doesn't bother me as a character. Though his functionality to the story might be debatable, I suppose I'd be pretty upset if I continually was forced to watch worlds die and be powerless to help.

In all, I'd say the issue was kind of dull as a re-read, with the Earth-3 sequence being the main exception. A couple of times, I was wondering, "how many more pages are there?" I don't think I felt so back in '85, but now, it mostly comes off as a prototypical lead-off to an event series. It's a little unfair, though, because CoIE basically invented the event series, especially one with this gravitas. So, in a way, it's more the fault of all the imitators than of Crisis itself. The issue was undeniably effective and achieved what it needed to achieve, but we've kind of become jaded to this kind of plot structure through the decades. What will truly define this as an enjoyable or disappointing re-read for me is to what degree the meat of the series resonates, not so much the opener. Nostalgia will help some, but the story itself will ultimately out.


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #957929 09/01/18 05:48 PM
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I love the COIE, I got the graphic novel with the nice paintings. I know the series is very controversial due to the events that happened during and after it, but I don't personally hate it. I was born in 1991, way into the Post-Crisis period so I have a different perspective than others here. In a way, I really like it because the Post-Crisis DCU created many of the TV shows I grew up with. It also established an interconnected universe that TV shows and video games really enjoy using. I discovered the Pre-Crisis universe by reading my Dad's 80's comics and I liked them, though I didn't fully understand why the characters were in different universes. By the time I started reading current comic books, in about 2005 (which is also why I like the Threeboot), the Post-Crisis Universe had added a lot of new characters while respecting those that came in generations before them.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #957931 09/01/18 06:13 PM
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I don't hate CoIE either, Emily. I think Fick, as she said in her intro, is coming into this from a more negative perspective, mostly from what it wrought in its wake. I can certainly understand that. I'm coming into this as someone who has generally loved CoIE itself, and who values many things about the pre- AND post-Crisis DCU. My approach to this re-read is generally to see how I engage with the story THIS particular time. (I think it's been somewhere between 6 and 10 years since the last time I read it.) I'm not really bringing any baggage with me regarding my feelings for what it messed up (like Legion continuity) or what it cleared the way for greatness (like, IMO, post-Crisis Superman from Byrne until around the time Jurgens departed); I'm mostly just considering the story own its own merits. Issue one is just one-twelfth a piece of the puzzle. I don't think this issue was a failure at all but also not a scintillating single-issue re-read for the reasons I try to explain above. Overall, I anticipate that I will again enjoy reading Crisis again. I'd be surprised if I don't!


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #957932 09/01/18 06:16 PM
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As far as I'm concerned, that Earth-3 sequence is one of the most powerful bits I think I've read in any comic. And the whole idea of waves of antimatter consuming the universe, and these characters who were the equivalents of the most prominent heroes in the DC universe being helpless to stop it... well, that's a downright frightening concept.

The recruitment of a pretty random assortment of heroes and villains seems pretty lame in retrospect. I mean, I know the idea was to highlight characters from a number of different titles that were being published at the time, but it's a really bizarre crew. Plus, it's a lot of buildup considering most of these characters don't play that much of a role in the story past the first few issues.

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #957933 09/01/18 06:30 PM
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There is an issue, I'm not sure it's been covered here yet, where they have both Anthro (the first boy) and Kamandi (the last boy according to Kirby, probably diff in Legion's timeline), which I think is very poetic.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Eryk Davis Ester #957934 09/01/18 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Eryk Davis Ester
As far as I'm concerned, that Earth-3 sequence is one of the most powerful bits I think I've read in any comic. And the whole idea of waves of antimatter consuming the universe, and these characters who were the equivalents of the most prominent heroes in the DC universe being helpless to stop it... well, that's a downright frightening concept.


Indeed. I had certainly understood as a child that these were powerful characters that comprised the Crime Syndicate. I was really so into them after reading DCCP and that JLA/JSA/ASS ( :lol ) crossover. It was shocking to me to see them taken out by a destructive force in a few pages.

I wonder if some people may read/re-read issue one and think the Alexander Luthor scene that echoed Superman's origin seems hokey or too overtly manipulative of the reader. I don't think so because I already cared for this Luthor and his world, but I wonder about how others might take it.

Originally Posted by Edie
The recruitment of a pretty random assortment of heroes and villains seems pretty lame in retrospect. I mean, I know the idea was to highlight characters from a number of different titles that were being published at the time, but it's a really bizarre crew. Plus, it's a lot of buildup considering most of these characters don't play that much of a role in the story past the first few issues.


Yeah, as I read these scenes I tried to remember what was so important about most of those particular characters to the series, and I came up empty. I guess it was more than just my less-than-perfect memory at fault!


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Emily Sivana #957935 09/01/18 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily Sivana
There is an issue, I'm not sure it's been covered here yet, where they have both Anthro (the first boy) and Kamandi (the last boy according to Kirby, probably diff in Legion's timeline), which I think is very poetic.


I think that's next issue, Em.


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #957936 09/01/18 06:42 PM
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I also have to wonder how effective that Earth-3 sequence is/was to a reader unfamiliar with the world and its characters. I think the Crime Syndicate didn't have all that many appearances after their first appearance in one of the earliest JLA/JSA events. They'd had a bit of a recent resurgence with the stories that I had read in DCCP and the most recent JLA/JSA/ASS ( grin ) crossover, but they were overall under-utilized in the interim years, especially because, imo, they had a lot of untapped potential. And if anyone missed that DCCP Annual, they would have missed, I believe, the ONLY prior Alexander Luthor appearance. Obviously, this sequence had a HUGE effect on me, but a random reader, lured in by the event, might have thought they were created just for this sequence.


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Lard Lad #957937 09/01/18 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin


Originally Posted by Edie
The recruitment of a pretty random assortment of heroes and villains seems pretty lame in retrospect. I mean, I know the idea was to highlight characters from a number of different titles that were being published at the time, but it's a really bizarre crew. Plus, it's a lot of buildup considering most of these characters don't play that much of a role in the story past the first few issues.


Yeah, as I read these scenes I tried to remember what was so important about most of those particular characters to the series, and I came up empty. I guess it was more than just my less-than-perfect memory at fault!


Seriously, this whole thing is the culmination of the Monitor randomly showing up in DC issues for a year or so, equipping random villains in order to test the mettle of our super-heroes, in order to carefully choose the ultimate team in order to protect his super-important Earth-merging machines for like two issues or something.

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Lard Lad #957938 09/01/18 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin
I also have to wonder how effective that Earth-3 sequence is/was to a reader unfamiliar with the world and its characters. I think the Crime Syndicate didn't have all that many appearances after their first appearance in one of the earliest JLA/JSA events. They'd had a bit of a recent resurgence with the stories that I had read in DCCP and the most recent JLA/JSA/ASS ( grin ) crossover, but they were overall under-utilized in the interim years, especially because, imo, they had a lot of untapped potential. And if anyone missed that DCCP Annual, they would have missed, I believe, the ONLY prior Alexander Luthor appearance. Obviously, this sequence had a HUGE effect on me, but a random reader, lured in by the event, might have thought they were created just for this sequence.


Yeah, if it hadn't been my familiarity with them from the JLA/JSA/A-SS crossover, I'm not sure it would've had quite the power. As it was, I remember being really annoyed at their deaths at the time. And I agree that there's tons of untapped potential there, and I don't think even with their "post-Crisis" revivals they've really been used as well as they should.

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Eryk Davis Ester #957939 09/01/18 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Eryk Davis Ester


Yeah, if it hadn't been my familiarity with them from the JLA/JSA/A-SS crossover, I'm not sure it would've had quite the power. As it was, I remember being really annoyed at their deaths at the time. And I agree that there's tons of untapped potential there, and I don't think even with their "post-Crisis" revivals they've really been used as well as they should.


I know, right? No one has ever really bothered to show how the characters turned out so differently from the more familiar versions and so much more--like exploring their dynamic in relation to their world. Still SO much potential! (I don't know what all Johns did with them in Forever Evil and what-not--I'm afraid to look into it!)


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #957940 09/01/18 07:02 PM
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There's also these weird hints of stuff like George Washington being the traitor in British War of Independence that would occasionally get dropped just to show how crazy mixed up its history was! It just seemed like it would be more fun to explore in detail.

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #957941 09/01/18 07:36 PM
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Yep, stuff like that. Little hints and tons of stuff never broached that just had a huge treasure trove of potential!


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Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #957942 09/01/18 07:39 PM
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^ I guess, in a nutshell, that's what I loved about the parallel Earths that were a part of DC's pre-Crisis universe overall--the boundless potential unexplored!

Mind you, I'm still a fan of much of what came after Crisis, but we also lost a lot in its wake.


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #957946 09/01/18 10:11 PM
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I really miss the potential of Earth 3. A world in which the most famous heroes are villains, and what few underground resistance 'heroes' remain are Earth 1's villains? That's just crazy awesome, and I'd love to have seen it fleshed out more, with, for instance an evil Teen Titans.

Imagine a leader of the underground resistance being Slade Wilson, who *blinded himself* to protect himself from being possessed by his son, who used him to betray various members of the underground to their deaths in the past, and only left dear old daddy alive because he knew how much being used like this by his own son wrecked him emotionally. A 'Teen Titans' in which Raven was sent to earth to soften it up and set the stage for Trigon's eventual arrival, only to be dragging her feet at advancing his plans, because she'd rather be the feared and powerful Daughter of Darkness, and not just one of his flunkies. Pathos!

So much potential. Ditto for the JSA, Charlton heroes, Freedom Fighters, Shazam family, etc. many of whom I don't feel like really ever integrated all that well into clutter-Earth (with many of them, like the Freedom Fighters, or Charlton heroes other than Blue Beetle or Captain Atom, being mostly forgotten in the post-Crisis amalgamization, since they now had to share a world with the Justice League, Titans, Outsiders, etc.).

The Giffen League, with Captain Marvel, Dr. Fate and Blue Beetle alongside Earth 1 stalwarts, just felt off to me, and, IMO, Blue Beetle was the only one that really felt like part of the team, thanks to his friendship with Booster Gold.



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Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Set #957951 09/01/18 11:30 PM
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It's cool reading everyone's thoughts about how to approach this reread. Like Lardy, I myself am trying to approach it for the story as it is; though I also am afraid my nostalgia may color it a bit.

Like Emily, I was born after Crisis was published. I first started reading comics in the mid-90s, and my comics reading order was roughly:

1) Post-Breakdowns Justice League (the un-funny JLA/JLE split)
2) The SW6 Legionnaires
3) The Post Zero Hour Legion (which I really loved of course)
4) The Satellite Era League (via back issues) - this was when I first encountered the Justice Society too, and the Crime Syndicate if I remember right
5) a few Pre-Breakdowns JLI issues
6) the Great Darkness Saga and a bit of the Preboot Legion (Adventure and v3)
7) A smattering of Titans Hunt and Arsenal's Titans

Crisis would be my first introduction to the Outsiders, Infinity Inc., the Omega Man, the Challengers of the Unknown, the All-Star Suqadron and many other DC characters. As well as the Wolfman-era Titans and the Detroit Justice League.

I had read Zero Hour first too, which set the bar really low for my expectations on Crisis!

Now Crisis, I read the trade paperback, which might also have influenced my memories. Not having to wait between issues, and getting to treat the whole story as a mega-long comic book, made me less sensitive to pacing.

Thoughts on Crisis' legacy - like with Emily, I grew up in a world that had all the heroes together. When I first learned about multiple Earths, as a kid I thought, "oh that's cool and all, but isn't it cooler to have everyone on one Earth so they can meet up and fight bad guys together?" (I had no idea yet how bad some crossovers could be :), ahem Genesis )


Originally Posted by Paladin


Originally Posted by Edie
The recruitment of a pretty random assortment of heroes and villains seems pretty lame in retrospect. I mean, I know the idea was to highlight characters from a number of different titles that were being published at the time, but it's a really bizarre crew. Plus, it's a lot of buildup considering most of these characters don't play that much of a role in the story past the first few issues.


Yeah, as I read these scenes I tried to remember what was so important about most of those particular characters to the series, and I came up empty. I guess it was more than just my less-than-perfect memory at fault!


I think in the end, the only characters who really made sense from that assortment were -

1) Solovar - to get Kamandi's trust
2) Psycho Pirate (supposedly) - the Monitor has a throwaway line that "this menace is one of emotion". Uh... what? Even on my first reread I found it odd, because the bad guy never once talked about feeding off emotion or anything like that. Unless this was a breaking-the-fourth-wall dig at how they must keep the interest of us readers smile
3) Arion - he was sent to protect the fork in his own time and in his own domain
4) Obsidian - he didn't have a MAJOR role, but his shadow powers did give him an advantage vs. the demons

The rest could easily have been swapped out for another character. The most glaring is probably Dawnstar; her power is tracking, and when she does offer to use it to chase the retreating Shadow Demons, Earth-2 Superman even stops her because they have to guard the tuning fork! Though, I'm not complaining as a) these characters all did get something to do and were written fairly well; and b) most of them were pretty powerful anyway.

Originally Posted by Set

The Giffen League, with Captain Marvel, Dr. Fate and Blue Beetle alongside Earth 1 stalwarts, just felt off to me, and, IMO, Blue Beetle was the only one that really felt like part of the team, thanks to his friendship with Booster Gold.




Dr. Fate never fit in well with that team, yeah. He was too aloof and magically mysterious. The Linda Strauss version did a bit better.

And Captain Marvel COULD have fit in, but he didn't last a full year! (for that matter, neither did Dr. Fate). Mary Marvel fit in better in the two"Super Buddies" mini-series, thankfully.

Last edited by Invisible Brainiac; 09/02/18 12:46 AM.
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #957952 09/02/18 12:50 AM
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So I'm rereading Crisis on my 2000 compilation. The cover is, frankly, a beautiful mess. The art is stunning, but anyone who isn't already familiar with DC Comics will get lost in it. Even minor characters like the TV reporters are sprinled in, and it seems like every single hero - even some who never appeared in the series (e.g. Raven) are shoehorned in. Even for me,who likes large crowds of heroes, this is too much!

(Although in hindsight, does Earth-1's Hal Jordan even appear at all? He's probably the most major character to be entirely absent in COIE).

In the issue 1. As Fanfie said, I do find many of the poses silly, though not overly so. Except for Earth-3's Power Ring, who looks like a contortionist. I'm amazed his spine hasn't snapped yet.

The Multiverse is introduced, and I nod my head. I had done a report on the history of comic books in class, and mentioned a few movies featuring alternate universes to highlight my point.

We get a 2-page spread of a dying Earth and the introduction of Pariah. This makes it seem like the anti-matter cloud is really fast, scaring me for our other universes. Once that wave shows up, can anything stop it?

The interior art strikes me right away. The people are so individualized, and there's so much diversity in the crowd. The fear is also palpable. As I look through the shot, I wonder if some characters here are counterparts to other Earth heroes. In the big central panel, there is a blonde, bearded man in a white shirt and black vest climbing a cab. Green Arrow? To his right on the ground is a man in a brown suit and hat, with a yellow tie flying in the wind as he runs. Jack Ryder? A man in a red shirt and green pants reminds me of Ultra Boy.

Pariah himself is weepy, but I do understand his despair. Imagine watching this scene - in person - billions of times!

We shift to Earth-3, one I'm already familiar with from JLA comics. The art is still gorgeous, and I find myself gazing at the butts of Power Ring and Johnny Quick smile Ah, what an awakening for young me.

The dialogue makes it seem like the Crime Syndicate have different philosophies. Super-Woman's chasing Luthor away, then dies mid-sentence without realizing. Owlman only thinks about saving his own life, and likens the people to chattel. Power Ring and Ultraman actually try to save innocent bystanders, though even they wonder at how they spent so much time terrorizing Earth.

I'm touched by the deaths of Earth-3's Luthor and Lois. I don't blame Luthor for stopping the fight and going home, as he realizes how futile it is. I do realize it's a repeat of Superman's own origin, but I don't mind; I think it's a cool homage. And it's bitersweet, but at least Luthor and Lois go sharing a last kiss and knowing their son is safe.

Ah, the Summoning. I find the dynamic interesting. Lyla asserts she is the Monitor's equal, and won't be treated "as a slave". A slave, hm. I do feel like having an entire page showing Lyla's powers is too much!

The Summoning itself seems momentous. Partly because of Wolfman's prose. Though at times it does come off as too much. "Each with power, yet each powerless, as well." What does that even mean? "and she fears what may come next." Why? She knows her targets... Is she afraid of them? Of the anti-matter wall? Now that I'm thinking about it, it's lost much of its weight.

Some interesting scenes with the heroes; and because this early part takes a few issues, we will get to know them quite a bit.

1) Solovar. At first I was like, really? What powers does he have beyond being a wise and strong ape? I like him as a character, but why is he needed? To bring in the entire Gorilla City? And Harbinger ends with a "your first instinct is to violence" speech. Was Solovar trying to hurt her? And wouldn't it be normal for the apes to try and capture Harbinger, seeing their king unconscious at her feet?
2) Dawnstar. Her powerset makes me think we're going to go on a hunt. Suicide Slum still exists in 30th century Metropolis, which saddens me a bit. 1000 years hasn't fixed everything. I do smile a bit at how well Harbinger knows her target. Playing tag gets Dawnstar right where she wants her.
3) Firebrand. Her introduction goes really well, helping a friend light a stove at a bond rally. I immediately become a fan. "How do we get to wherever we're going? Click our heels together and say "There's no place like home"?" Hah, oh Danette.
4) Blue Beetle. Keep in mind, I had already been exposed to the bwa-ha-ha Ted Kord from JLI. I like his wisecracks here, and think they're a bit more appropriate for a hero. I have a tough time reconciling his competence here with his behavior in the JLI; but because I read JLI first, I have little trouble accepting this more mainstream Ted.
5) Psycho Pirate. I wonder why they need a crazy man.
6) Arion. I sigh a little, Arion doesn't even give Harbinger a chance to explain before preparing to attack. I do like his power signature. When he says he cannot conjure a spell of levitation, I wonder if Harbinger is blocking his powers.
7) Firestorm and Killer Frost. Firestorm seems to have little trouble fighting Frost here, easily transmuting her icicles; I wonder why she's supposed to be such a fearsome foe of his. I'm already impressed with Firestorm's multitude of powers, and he will now be Exhibit A every time thoth ribs me about Invisible Brainiac being overpowered wink Pirate's confession that he's addicted to emotional control is troubling. I understand making Frost fall in love to get her help, but now that Lardy has mentioned it,I wonder if there was a better way. Can altruism be an emotion? Love for fellow men? Contentment, joy? Ah well, that ship has sailed.

The heroes are assembled. The ones I've "met" before Crisis: Blue Beetle in the JLI days, Dawnstar, Psimon in a one-shot appearance battling Arsenal's Titans, Cyborg as the brain-dead Titans Hunt version, Geo-force from Zero Hour, Superman of Earth-2 from JLA/JSA crossovers, Obsidian from the post-Zero Hour Justice League, FIrestorm, Killer Frost, John Stewart and Doctor Polaris, I'm familiar with too. It's really only Solovar, Arion, Firebrand and Psycho Pirate whom I've encountered for the very first time. The dialogue and the battles against the shadow demons are cool. Obsidian's the only one who seems to succeed, oh dear.

Finally, the Monitor brings on a light-show, and I sigh in relief. But why did he wait for so long? He says the attack was not planned, but also not unexpected. Okay, then.

The issue ends with the Monitor being introduced. When I first read it, I turned to the next page in the collection smile But I understand the frustration of some; we don't even know what the heroes have to go. Yet I'm sufficiently intrigued by the set-up to wonder what comes next.

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #957957 09/02/18 04:14 AM
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My heartfelt thanks to all who have chimed in. I love it when a thread I start gains so much momentum!

Replies to come a little bit later, once the coffee has kicked in. FatCramer


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958010 09/02/18 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Pal-Lardy
The death of Earth-3 is now and was at the time the most effective sequence in the issue. I had experienced two of the annual JLA/JSA crossovers "live" as a reader, the second of which was the one that crossed over with All-Star Squadron and also featured the Crime Syndicate of Earth-3. I was also an avid reader of DC Comics Presents. In its first annual, Earth-3's Alexander Luthor was introduced. As I kid, I was wowed by those stories and how they showcased the concepts of an evil JLA on a world in which the only hero was a version of Lex Luthor. With those stories still fresh in my mind, it was this sequence that showed me that Crisis was really serious about the stakes of its concept. These were major characters to me, and I felt both sad and awed that they were suddenly gone.


Beautifully put! And I'm glad you mentioned the JLA/JSA/Not a Donkey wink crossover, and even happier that you mentioned DC Comics Presents! While not every one of its nearly 100 issues is a classic, there are many nuggets of the purest gold to be found if one gives them a chance. And all 4 annuals are awesome. Of all the DC series that got the Showcase B&W phone-book treatment, only to be discontinued before the whole run was collected, DCCP is the most tragic case (with Not a Donkey...tee hee...a close...oh, do I really dare...Number Two.) grin

Originally Posted by Emily
I love the COIE, I got the graphic novel with the nice paintings. I know the series is very controversial due to the events that happened during and after it, but I don't personally hate it. I was born in 1991, way into the Post-Crisis period so I have a different perspective than others here.


I got into superhero comics in...wait for it...1991. wink Seriously, though, I came into the DCU with the Post-Crisis status quo firmly in place, and had no trouble with it at the time. It really wasn't until about 10 years ago, when I was becoming disenchanted with the "Johns-Verse DCU" that I began to reverse my stance; and I'll just add that the first "official sequel" to CoIE, Infinite Crisis, had a lot to do with my reversal, but that's a whole other topic.

Originally Posted by Emily
In a way, I really like it because the Post-Crisis DCU created many of the TV shows I grew up with. It also established an interconnected universe that TV shows and video games really enjoy using.


Fair enough. In the end, it is all commercial product intended to make money. Having said that, and I admit that it might just be the bitter old burnout in me talking, but I think comic books were a lot more fun and a lot more subversive when neither the mass-media tastemakers nor the marketing experts were paying serious attention to them.

Originally Posted by Emily
I discovered the Pre-Crisis universe by reading my Dad's 80's comics and I liked them, though I didn't fully understand why the characters were in different universes. By the time I started reading current comic books, in about 2005 (which is also why I like the Threeboot), the Post-Crisis Universe had added a lot of new characters while respecting those that came in generations before them.


They were respectful? That's news to me! wink But, as already noted, you and I are a generation apart, so there are bound to be differences in perception. And I've really come to believe that there really is no "right" or "wrong" when analyzing pop culture -- if ever an art form (and it was always an art form) is best regarded by each individual's life experience, it's pop culture.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958012 09/02/18 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Pal-Lardy
I don't hate CoIE either, Emily. I think Fick, as she said in her intro, is coming into this from a more negative perspective, mostly from what it wrought in its wake. I can certainly understand that. I'm coming into this as someone who has generally loved CoIE itself, and who values many things about the pre- AND post-Crisis DCU.


Yes, I'd say that's a pretty accurate summation of where I'm coming from. I would only add that I also think, in hindsight, that Wolfman and Levitz and a lot of other boomer creators came to take the whole thing just a bit too seriously for comfort; then, too, there are creators who went to the other extreme and seemed, in my view at least, to be winding up the reader for enjoying superheroes in the first place (a few of them are even boomers themselves, but I shan't name names.) Either extreme, in my opinion, is detrimental to what I now believe the goal of a traditionally formatted 32-page comic book should be -- to entertain the reader, and to leave her or him or them feeling like, "Yeah, I'd say I've gotten my money's worth."

Originally Posted by Pal-Lardy
Originally Posted by EDE
As far as I'm concerned, that Earth-3 sequence is one of the most powerful bits I think I've read in any comic. And the whole idea of waves of antimatter consuming the universe, and these characters who were the equivalents of the most prominent heroes in the DC universe being helpless to stop it... well, that's a downright frightening concept.



Indeed. I had certainly understood as a child that these were powerful characters that comprised the Crime Syndicate. I was really so into them after reading DCCP and that JLA/JSA/ASS ( :lol ) crossover. It was shocking to me to see them taken out by a destructive force in a few pages.

I wonder if some people may read/re-read issue one and think the Alexander Luthor scene that echoed Superman's origin seems hokey or too overtly manipulative of the reader. I don't think so because I already cared for this Luthor and his world, but I wonder about how others might take it.


That's it, exactly! And I'm starting to wonder if maybe the Earth-3 characters were chosen as the first bunch to go was because they were recognizable enough to the casual comics reader as inverted analogs, in order to add a funhouse-mirror effect to the unsettling (yet never gratuitous) horror.

As for the bookend scenes Emily mentions, as well as the possible whys and wherefores of that oddball selection of characters which Lardy and EDE touched on, I'll get into all that fully in my review of CoIE #2.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Eryk Davis Ester #958013 09/02/18 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Eryk Davis Ester
Originally Posted by Paladin
I also have to wonder how effective that Earth-3 sequence is/was to a reader unfamiliar with the world and its characters. I think the Crime Syndicate didn't have all that many appearances after their first appearance in one of the earliest JLA/JSA events. They'd had a bit of a recent resurgence with the stories that I had read in DCCP and the most recent JLA/JSA/ASS ( grin ) crossover, but they were overall under-utilized in the interim years, especially because, imo, they had a lot of untapped potential. And if anyone missed that DCCP Annual, they would have missed, I believe, the ONLY prior Alexander Luthor appearance. Obviously, this sequence had a HUGE effect on me, but a random reader, lured in by the event, might have thought they were created just for this sequence.


Yeah, if it hadn't been my familiarity with them from the JLA/JSA/A-SS crossover, I'm not sure it would've had quite the power. As it was, I remember being really annoyed at their deaths at the time. And I agree that there's tons of untapped potential there, and I don't think even with their "post-Crisis" revivals they've really been used as well as they should.


Originally Posted by Pal-Lardy
^ I guess, in a nutshell, that's what I loved about the parallel Earths that were a part of DC's pre-Crisis universe overall--the boundless potential unexplored!

Mind you, I'm still a fan of much of what came after Crisis, but we also lost a lot in its wake.


All of the above are, in my opinion, words to live by (and to create fan fiction and fan art by.)


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Set #958014 09/02/18 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Set
I really miss the potential of Earth 3. A world in which the most famous heroes are villains, and what few underground resistance 'heroes' remain are Earth 1's villains? That's just crazy awesome, and I'd love to have seen it fleshed out more, with, for instance an evil Teen Titans.

Imagine a leader of the underground resistance being Slade Wilson, who *blinded himself* to protect himself from being possessed by his son, who used him to betray various members of the underground to their deaths in the past, and only left dear old daddy alive because he knew how much being used like this by his own son wrecked him emotionally. A 'Teen Titans' in which Raven was sent to earth to soften it up and set the stage for Trigon's eventual arrival, only to be dragging her feet at advancing his plans, because she'd rather be the feared and powerful Daughter of Darkness, and not just one of his flunkies. Pathos!

So much potential. Ditto for the JSA, Charlton heroes, Freedom Fighters, Shazam family, etc. many of whom I don't feel like really ever integrated all that well into clutter-Earth (with many of them, like the Freedom Fighters, or Charlton heroes other than Blue Beetle or Captain Atom, being mostly forgotten in the post-Crisis amalgamization, since they now had to share a world with the Justice League, Titans, Outsiders, etc.).

The Giffen League, with Captain Marvel, Dr. Fate and Blue Beetle alongside Earth 1 stalwarts, just felt off to me, and, IMO, Blue Beetle was the only one that really felt like part of the team, thanks to his friendship with Booster Gold.




Set, someday soon, you've just GOTTA write the definite Earth-3 fan fic. In the immortal words of the late, beloved MLLASH: "I DEMAND IT!"

Just one minor disagreement: 1) There was one other Charlton character who really shined (ironic, since she came from a shadow dimension,) and that's Nightshade, especially as she was arguably the most indispensable member of the Ostrander-Yale iteration of Suicide Squad.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
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