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Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958256 09/05/18 05:32 AM
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Thanks for the background info and timelines, everyone!

Set, you make a good point re these types of heroes. And many developments don't stick either. Hawk became Monarch in Armageddon 2001, then became Extant around Zero Hour, and died shortly after in an issue of JSA (not even an event).

Doctor Light (Kimiyo), Lady Quark and Harbinger all went to "join" various teams. But only Dr. Light ever became somewhat integrated into the "mainstream" DC community, by virtue of her Justice League membership. Lady Quark joined L.E.G.I.O.N. but was "killed" off towards the end of the first series; inexplicably returning in Infinite Crisis briefly before fading away again. And poor Harbinger joined the New Guardians, that team of walking stereotypes, and eventually died in a fake-out (oh no! Supergirl is dead... oh wait, she's not, it's just this suspiciously similar-looking tall blonde woman with ill-defined powers who can be cannon fodder).

In general, "legacy" characters do better. The Crispus Allen Spectre was created in an event, I think, and it stuck for a while. Also the new Doctor Fate that spun out of Infinite Crisis hasn't died yet. But then, legacies.

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Invisible Brainiac #958267 09/05/18 07:38 AM
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Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958277 09/05/18 08:33 AM
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Kole was created so Wolfman could pretend to skirt that imperative. Sigh. why he couldn’t have killed the unlikable Azrael instead... though I think he planned it that way. Make Kole likable and give her some moments, so her death would have more impact

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958281 09/05/18 12:11 PM
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I think that's exactly it Ibby. Terra had been bad through and through, despite lots of people thinking she would come good in the end. Kole was nice and just finding her place in the world. Both died and I think with Kole Wolfman was showing us that unexpected death can come to the nicest as well as the nastiest.


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958285 09/05/18 01:00 PM
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Hey, all,

Thanks to everyone who has kept this thread going, especially the people who hadn't posted yet the last time I came by.

I will definitely post the review to CoIE #2 tonight, and hopefully will manage to get through and comment on this ton of new posts during the next few days.


Please keep on posting. It's what makes these threads worth hosting! love


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Invisible Brainiac #958288 09/05/18 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac


Doctor Light (Kimiyo), Lady Quark and Harbinger all went to "join" various teams. But only Dr. Light ever became somewhat integrated into the "mainstream" DC community, by virtue of her Justice League membership. Lady Quark joined L.E.G.I.O.N. but was "killed" off towards the end of the first series; inexplicably returning in Infinite Crisis briefly before fading away again. And poor Harbinger joined the New Guardians, that team of walking stereotypes, and eventually died in a fake-out (oh no! Supergirl is dead... oh wait, she's not, it's just this suspiciously similar-looking tall blonde woman with ill-defined powers who can be cannon fodder).


Pariah, Harbinger, and Lady Quark all had the problem that you couldn't really explain their backgrounds without referencing Crisis and multiple Earths and all that stuff and so using them sort of defeated the point of trying to get a "fresh start" post-Crisis. Kimiyo had less of that problem, which is probably why she was able to integrate better.

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
thoth lad #958289 09/05/18 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by thoth lad


Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
that was me commenting on Hal being absent, yes. thanks for the article!

I remember Raven appearing in a monitor, and the Monitor saying he wanted to recruit her to replace Psycho Pirate. but he couldn’t find her, as if everything about her had been changed. that was when she was missing in the Titans book for a while


Hal was missing, the Titans were off in space, the JLA was JLDetroit and the Hawks were into their Shadow War, only popping in to fill in a mark on the checklist. The Atom was off in South America only popping in for a few scenes and the New Gods were off the table due to The Hunger Dogs graphic novel. Only Darkseid shows up in any real capacity.

Plenty of big guns missing out on this Woodstock event. There were a lot of creative teams pulling their characters in various directions at the time, with plenty of mini series in the pipeline too. It took a lot of effort just to get them to put in the monitor appearances and red skies. It was only later in the series that a lot other writers would actively look for tie ins. DC hadn't got a cohesive plan for their characters put in place, despite Wolfman pitching that everything start form #1 after the end of Crisis #10 was published.



Yeah, it's interesting that many of the JLAers had already undergone or were undergoing their own softboots/changes of direction completely independently of Crisis, spinning out of the end of the Satellite era/beginning of JLA Detroit.

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958296 09/05/18 03:00 PM
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Ooh, Lady Quark. I'd forgotten about her entirely, and she had a great look. There are very few mature women in comic-book herodom, and she had a great costume and attitude (even if her powerset was kind of generic 'flying zapper' like various Legionnaires or Starfire or whomever).


Wrapped Around Your Finger now complete in BITS!
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958297 09/05/18 03:36 PM
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With the Harbinger post of impending issue #2 upon us, I'd feel like a pariah if I didn't shed a little (doctor) light on my last reread. This was back when I was pulling information for my JLDetroit thing on Bits, so a few years back.

I got side-tracked into looking at the Crisis, as that version would go differently. It looks as though I got to #5 with loads of notes and 2 or three with a rewrite, before another shiny new toy distracted me again. I've got an alternate version of Elvar's timeline, based on the issues published each month. If I get the chance, I might put it up on bits.

Here are a few of the plot holes I was keen to fix from #1

How does the Anti Monitor move his shadow demons with impunity? If he can do this, why not just pick off the big guns?
An unnamed Earth dies before E-3. Add more detail.
Yet another unnamed Earth after E3 is destroyed as the Monitor goes down to meet his team. Again, add more detail.
The Monitor goes to retrieve Luthor. He has Harbinger do everything else with her replicates. Why do it himself?
How does the Anti-monitor know where Harbinger would be?
How does he know to attack the satellite?
Why are the demons on the satellite different to the others?


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958317 09/05/18 04:28 PM
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Re: a couple of your points -

* I agree about the discrepancies between the shadow demons. I never understood why some shadow demons just inflicted pain and could be punched while others seemed to disintegrate people with a touch.
* I don't really think the other Earths needed more detail. It would've been nice to learn something interesting about them but I think their nameless ordinariness sort of added to the idea that there were an infinite number of them out there and many of them would have likely only differentiated from Earth-Prime in subtle, minor ways.
* "How does he know to attack the satellite?" I might be mis-remembering but wasn't one of the Harbinger duplicates corrupted by this point? I always assumed that the Anti-Monitor had some sort of psychic link with that duplicate and so could tell when the gathering was occurring.

I have a question for those who were reading DC contemporaneously at the time of CoIE:

* What were your thoughts on the Monitor (and Lyla) during his/their appearances in various books leading up to CoIE? Did they excite/interest you? Did you get a surprise when they showed up in a wide variety of books in a time before cross-overs were common? What were your expectations of them and what did you think of how they were finally portrayed in CoIE?
* What did you know of CoIE leading up to it? Did you know that Flash, Supergirl or others would die? Did you know the DC universe would be changed as fundamentally as it would be? Did you feel like that change was necessary leading up to the series?
* What was your biggest surprise/shock reading the series?

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958329 09/05/18 08:18 PM
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REVIEW: CoIE #2, "Time and Time Again"

Writer/Editor: Marv Wolfman
Penciller: George Perez
Inker: Dick Giordano
Letterer: John Costanza
Colorist: Anthony Tollin
Associate Editor: Robert Greenberger
Consulting Editor: Len Wein

From the Stone Age to the 30th Century, things are phasing in and out of their rightful places -- Anthro the young and handsome (if misogynistic) caveman sees futuristic architecture right after bonking his head on a branch, so he shrugs it off as a hallucination; meanwhile, a squad of Legionnaires (specifically, Chameleon Boy, Lightning Lass, Wildfire, Colossal Boy, and Phantom Girl, with Brainiac 5 advising from Legion HQ) shows admirable teamwork in dealing with a sudden incursion of wooly mammoths, but Brainy hastily switches the Legion's priorities to dealing with the imminent destruction across space and time, wrought by the massive wave of anti-matter introduced in the previous issue.

Next, in present day (1985) Gotham City, a routine Batman/Joker clash takes an unpredictable turn when they are disrupted by the sudden incursion of the Flash (Barry Allen,) who rants and raves about "the world dying around us," with mixed results -- on one had, the Joker seizes the opportunity to escape arrest; on the other hand, Perez and Giordano do an impressive job of giving Batman a full range of facial expressions, mask and all, punctuated by a cinematic extreme close-up of Batman's eyes (minus the pupils, yes, but that arguably gives the imagery an extra touch of unreality.)

Here I have to momentarily digress -- who'd have ever thought back in early 1985 when this issue was published, that, almost 35 years on, the Batman/Joker sequence would cause the more discerning readers' eyes to glaze over in boredom, because Flying Rodent Dude and Killer Klown have become the most overexposed intellectual properties published as comic books, their never-ending conflict strip-mined beyond redundancy into utter absurdity? Back then, the Dark Night Returns Dour Nut Repulses mini-series by That Crazy Old Guy Who Might Have Been Overrated All Along (IMHO) would not be published for nearly a year; at the time, the Batman books were among DC's worst-selling titles, barely escaping cancellation several times between the late 70s and the late 80s despite having been of consistently good quality for many years! Oh, the irony. End of digression.

Cut to the Monitor's satellite, and his motley crew of metas, whom I didn't do a roll call of in my review of the previous issue. So here goes:

Psycho Pirate: What the hell? I realize that Raven was off the table (I don't doubt that Wolfman himself, her creator and main chronicler, used whatever juice he had to ensure she'd be off-limits,) and that the DCU has a micro-fraction of the number of telepaths that the Marvel U has, but THAT GUY? To reiterate what I said earlier, he mind-enslaved Alan Fricking Scott and almost doomed the Earth-2 universe to complete and utter destruction! Isn't that what the Monitor is supposedly trying to *prevent*?

Firebrand: She wields an elemental power, she's cute and likable and feisty and a born fighter. She belongs there, in my opinion.

Psimon: I have a great distaste for villains with vaguely-defined powers which border on omnipotence. Psimon is no exception. Plus, how exactly did the Monitor expect to keep him on a tight leash? Eh. Either way, it becomes moot when Psimon gets teleported away later in this issue by the Monitor's still-unseen nemesis.

Blue Beetle: I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that no one else, not even other people who are into both DC and Marvel, has remarked on my observation in my previous review that Ted had the potential to become the DCU's own Spider-Man or Captain America (or, for that matter, Iron Man, kinda sorta.) Look, I am trying to avoid throwing JLI under the bus, because I do think it got off to a promising start and didn't completely go off the rails until about 40-plus months into a 60-month run, but Ted did not come off well there *at all,* even in the better JLI stories! Surely I'm not the only one who thinks he deserved better than becoming a doughnut-devouring buffoon who played perpetual second fiddle to Booster Gold (a character I personally loathe) before being handpicked to be cannon fodder in one of the worst DCU events ever published? And, oh yeah, I think he belongs in the Monitor's chosen guard -- scientific whiz, excellent closer quarters fighter, good tactician.

Solovar: I usually adore DCU gorillas, and actually, Solovar was no exception until *this very reread.* I have a big problem with his "benevolent" method of dealing with Gorilla City dissidents by brainwashing them.

Geo-Force: This guy is a favorite punching-bag of the kind of readers who...whom I often disagree with, let's leave it at that. Me, I love Brion, I even developed a crush on him in my early 20s. I'll leave the other details to a future BATO re-read.

Firestorm: Yes. His powers work on a molecular level, yet they are kept in check by the essential decency of the two men who combine to form him.

Killer Frost: No.

Earth-2 Superman: Sure. He's slightly less powerful than his younger E-1 counterpart (in theory, at least) and he has plenty of gravitas.

Arion: Yes. He has a strange magic...STRAAAAANGE MAGIC (sorry, I couldn't resist.) blush

Dr. Polaris: No. He's a thoroughly nasty piece of work with no potential for anti-heroism. He's also a self-serving schizophrenic, for Pete's sake!

Obsidian: Yes. His shadow powers should provide a tremendous advantage for this team. In theory, at least. Either way, I'm a fan of his. Always have been, even before he outed himself as gay.

Cyborg: Another one I've always been a fan of. His ability to interface with machines should be particularly invaluable.

Dawnstar: Best DCU tracker of all time, and one of the most unfairly neglected and mistreated Legionnaires.

Green Lantern (John Stewart): Well, duh, YES! To most people under 30, even those who don't read comic books, he's the one and only true Green Lantern!


TO BE CONTINUED TOMORROW


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958347 09/06/18 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Blacula
I agree about the discrepancies between the shadow demons. I never understood why some shadow demons just inflicted pain and could be punched while others seemed to disintegrate people with a touch.


It’s something that continues right through isn’t it, their powers switching depending on the circumstances.

Originally Posted by Blacula
* I don't really think the other Earths needed more detail. It would've been nice to learn something interesting about them but I think their nameless ordinariness sort of added to the idea that there were an infinite number of them out there and many of them would have likely only differentiated from Earth-Prime in subtle, minor ways.


I think in these scenes, it would be simply to give them a name, rather than anything like a whole scene. It’s mainly to show that the Crisis has a structure to it, to reinforce it bearing down on the remaining Earths. For example, Earth-C might be one of them as it’s a bit more removed from Earth -1 than say Earth-3 is.

I’m going to touch on that again in a response below… actually… I’ll use Super Editing Powers to bring that point up here!. Gasp!

* What were your thoughts on the Monitor (and Lyla) during his/their appearances in various books leading up to CoIE? Did they excite/interest you? Did you get a surprise when they showed up in a wide variety of books in a time before cross-overs were common? What were your expectations of them and what did you think of how they were finally portrayed in CoIE?

My above bit would also have been to add a little more of a lead in to Crisis. Nothing huge. One reason for that is because the plot in Crisis changed so much before it started.

Going from memory, books were told to add some odd weather effects and two Monitor appearances. Some information was given on what the two would look like and some broad ideas on how they could be used. It was certainly after they’d made one of those appearances that The Monitor’s role changed. The reasoning he gave in Crisis, for pitting heroes against villains, was a later change in his motivation.

Looking back, I think it’s important to have a significant degree of flexibility built in until the book is being produced. In this instance, it allowed a long lead time and for Wolfman to make significant changes without completely undermining what had gone before. It would have only taken a few earlier instructions to have tied Wolfman’s hands here.

Having a lighter touch also works well with creative teams who are wanting to tell their own stories in their books. I’d not underestimate the backlash a more involved lead in might have caused back then. There’s the story of one guy not taking kindly to the changes at all.

More modern events are choreographed to the point that monthly titles are often essentially tie in books for much of the year. When the main Event book suffers from delays, plot changes, leaks etc. then it has a wider and deeper impact.

Back to the question, and I thought Monitor and Lyla were fairly ACME type characters. They seemed more like Marvel characters to me, and that wasn’t based on much knowledge. I’d already read enough of those to have seen plenty of villains viewing events through screens Later on, I’d find that the Avengers was full of them.

That ACME feel was no doubt due to the limited information that was available. Their original function seems to be what was later used for the Calculator.

In balance they are about as much as you could expect. They are visually very interesting characters because Perez is designing them.

They are mainly there to further the plot, and are trying to walk along the tight rope of trying not to hog all of it or to be so bland as to fail to propel the story.

Harbinger: She has an arc of betrayal and redemption, but we don’t learn a lot about her past. She could be from any universe and her last survivor/orphan origin ties in with a number of the cast. She’s there to drag the characters around.

Pariah’s is also a tale of redemption, for past sins. However, he’s mainly there to drag the characters around by the nose and as part of some plot gymnastics to explain DC’s history.

The Montitor is a deity level redemption character, giving himself so that a universe can live. Wolfman has actually expanded theology by making him save a multiverse. What Did Your God Do In The Crisis? Would be on many t-shirts if his actions were more widely known about. smile

Luther is there because Levitz and Giffen gave us infant Highfather before Crisis. He’s there to fill in some plot functions and not much more. And that blank slate suits his background and rapid upbringing.

Originally Posted by Blacula
* "How does he know to attack the satellite?" I might be mis-remembering but wasn't one of the Harbinger duplicates corrupted by this point? I always assumed that the Anti-Monitor had some sort of psychic link with that duplicate and so could tell when the gathering was occurring.


I’d need to reread it, and see my notes led.

Originally Posted by Blacula
I have a question for those who were reading DC contemporaneously at the time of CoIE:


* What did you know of CoIE leading up to it? Did you know that Flash, Supergirl or others would die? Did you know the DC universe would be changed as fundamentally as it would be? Did you feel like that change was necessary leading up to the series?


I was a new DC reader going into Crisis, with enough issues under my belt for it to have an impact.

I had no idea about what was going to happen. I didn’t start reading any industry press until a bit later on. I’m glad I didn’t too. Far too many spoilers for my liking. So, if it wasn’t hinted at in a lettercol, then I’d not know. Was there a next issue teaser with Supergirl? That might have been a strong hint.

I’d have struggled to name one if asked for a favourite, but the Flash was in my first JLA, and I was sad at his passing.

They had made plenty of “DC will change forever” comments for it to have an impact, even if the details were uncertain.

I was still gosh-wowing at the DCU to think it needed a drastic overhaul. I had no issues at all with the multiverse, or JSAs from other Earths. Considering that one of the main reasons for all this was DC streamlining its portfolio for a sell off, I don’t think many people did. I was happily reading the All-Star Squadron.

Originally Posted by Blacula
* What was your biggest surprise/shock reading the series?


The death of the ten-eyed man. He’d have made it out of the rubble if the three characters nearby hadn’t drawn the attention of the Shadow Demons. smile

The Flash; the assault on the fortress; the sheer scope of it all… gosh lots…


"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958351 09/06/18 06:23 AM
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Without one of those Crisis compendiums naming every character, I wouldn't have known that the Ten-Eyed Man wasn't simply some innocent bystander.

And can we talk about that poor girl in the stylish green outfit who was one of the first victims of the shadow demons in COIE 12? She was so important they even paid homageto her in Legion of 3 Worlds!

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958353 09/06/18 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Ann Hebistand

Blue Beetle: I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that no one else, not even other people who are into both DC and Marvel, has remarked on my observation in my previous review that Ted had the potential to become the DCU's own Spider-Man or Captain America (or, for that matter, Iron Man, kinda sorta.) Look, I am trying to avoid throwing JLI under the bus, because I do think it got off to a promising start and didn't completely go off the rails until about 40-plus months into a 60-month run, but Ted did not come off well there *at all,* even in the better JLI stories! Surely I'm not the only one who thinks he deserved better than becoming a doughnut-devouring buffoon who played perpetual second fiddle to Booster Gold (a character I personally loathe) before being handpicked to be cannon fodder in one of the worst DCU events ever published? And, oh yeah, I think he belongs in the Monitor's chosen guard -- scientific whiz, excellent closer quarters fighter, good tactician.



You might have missed them, but Set, thoth and I have all commented on Ted Kord. Not really a direct reaction to your comment, but I think we all agreed on Ted's early potential.

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958358 09/06/18 07:04 AM
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I have kind of a weird relationship with Crisis, because even though it felt like a major event in my comics reading childhood and I was completely fascinated by it as it was coming out, it also coincided with the period when I felt like I was outgrowing comics, so that within about a year or so after Crisis I'd pretty much stopped reading them. So it kind of ended up being an unintentional dropping off point for me.

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958482 09/06/18 06:21 PM
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Um...I kinda used up most of my nervous energy earlier this evening posting *a lot of* silly stuff. So my review of the remaining portion of CoIE #2 is going to strictly hit the high points:

- The (still unidentified) Big Bad Villain infiltrating the Green Lantern Power Battery on Planet Oa, and taunting the Guardians of the Universe before he overloads the battery 'til it blows up real good, leaving the Guardians scattered all over the floor. BAD-ASS, no two ways about it!

- Psycho Pirate forcing Pariah to turn his frown upside down, and then laugh -- long loud and clear. There's just something so weirdly off-kilter, almost unintentionally droll about it. Maybe it's Schadenfreude on my part at seeing Pariah taking this kind of abuse. Yes, I'm a bad person, and I've known that for a long time.

- Obsidian using his powers to save Arion from supernaturally self-combusting (or something like that) after Psycho Pirate messes with Arion's head. That's my Todd!

- The memorable guest appearance by Kamandi (my favorite DCU Kirby Kreation) which Emily mentioned a few days ago.

Sorry, all. I'll do better with CoIE #3. blush


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958484 09/06/18 06:46 PM
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I don't really have any strong memories about #2. Maybe it's because of the jumbled order I read the series in but this seems like the least eventful issue to me.

Regarding the characters selected by the Monitor, I like that it's such a weird cross-section of DC characters. I've never really understood why this particular group was chosen but I've always liked that their weird grouping, added to the far flung locales and time periods used in the first two issues, immediately tells the reader that this series will be a deep dive into the wonderfully diverse DC universe.

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Invisible Brainiac #958485 09/06/18 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Invisible Brainiac
Without one of those Crisis compendiums naming every character, I wouldn't have known that the Ten-Eyed Man wasn't simply some innocent bystander.


This is my least favorite death in the whole series! There is absolutely nothing about his appearance here that lets the reader know that this is a named DC character meeting his fate. It's just a guy in a suit with glasses. I have no idea why Perez didn't at least draw him in his costume. I wish they had removed any reference to his death from the Compendium and then just offed him somewhere else if they wanted to since his death had absolutely no impact here.

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Blacula #958487 09/06/18 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Blacula
I don't really have any strong memories about #2. Maybe it's because of the jumbled order I read the series in but this seems like the least eventful issue to me.

Regarding the characters selected by the Monitor, I like that it's such a weird cross-section of DC characters. I've never really understood why this particular group was chosen but I've always liked that their weird grouping, added to the far flung locales and time periods used in the first two issues, immediately tells the reader that this series will be a deep dive into the wonderfully diverse DC universe.


Well said, Blacula. I just wish Wolfman had selected some other, more ambiguous villains/anti-heroes than the ones he settled on. Most of the heroes, I'm perfectly happy with.


Still "Fickles" to my friends.
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Blacula #958496 09/06/18 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Blacula

Regarding the characters selected by the Monitor, I like that it's such a weird cross-section of DC characters. I've never really understood why this particular group was chosen but I've always liked that their weird grouping, added to the far flung locales and time periods used in the first two issues, immediately tells the reader that this series will be a deep dive into the wonderfully diverse DC universe.


good point! and including villains is a good way to show that everyone is affected. pros and cons I guess. There’s quite a bit of power in the chosen group after all. But I also don’t know how heinous the chosen villains have acted

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958502 09/06/18 11:49 PM
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Thoughts on #2:

The cover is nice, but not one of the best ones. It just seems to lack scale.

Anthro and his family. It's a pretty funny scene, which works better in a monthly series than in a collection. In the latter, it just seems to slow down the pace, especially as Anthro is kind of a "funny" character. Plus, he gets 3 pages to the Legion's 2 1/4. The Legion does well, though. Each of the six gets to show off powers, not bad.

Ah, the Joker. Fanfie said it earlier;

Originally Posted by Ann Hebistand

Next, in present day (1985) Gotham City, a routine Batman/Joker clash takes an unpredictable turn when they are disrupted by the sudden incursion of the Flash (Barry Allen,) who rants and raves about "the world dying around us," with mixed results -- on one had, the Joker seizes the opportunity to escape arrest; on the other hand, Perez and Giordano do an impressive job of giving Batman a full range of facial expressions, mask and all, punctuated by a cinematic extreme close-up of Batman's eyes (minus the pupils, yes, but that arguably gives the imagery an extra touch of unreality.)

Here I have to momentarily digress -- who'd have ever thought back in early 1985 when this issue was published, that, almost 35 years on, the Batman/Joker sequence would cause the more discerning readers' eyes to glaze over in boredom, because Flying Rodent Dude and Killer Klown have become the most overexposed intellectual properties published as comic books, their never-ending conflict strip-mined beyond redundancy into utter absurdity? Back then, the Dark Night Returns Dour Nut Repulses mini-series by That Crazy Old Guy Who Might Have Been Overrated All Along (IMHO) would not be published for nearly a year; at the time, the Batman books were among DC's worst-selling titles, barely escaping cancellation several times between the late 70s and the late 80s despite having been of consistently good quality for many years! Oh, the irony. End of digression.




Zero Hour would blatantly do the same thing, throwing in a scene of the Joker escaping from Batman. My threshold of tolerance for the Joker has gotten lower, because he's just appeared so darned much. And while I respect Batman and his place in DC's hero community, he can be really good or really bad depending on the writer. In COIE, I think he's good. I agree with Fanfie on the great facial expressions, especially with the handicap of the white-out eyeholes! Batman also comes across as a detective here, which is an aspect of the character that IMO should be highlighted. If Bats is just a martial arts expert, well, after a while that gets boring. Being a detective too, makes him stand out.

This is the Flash's first appearance in the story, and having such a big name hero in trouble ups the ante!

Back to the gathering. I'm glad the characters expressed their confusion and doubts too. As Solovar said, there are others more powerful (coming from him, I smile at his self-awareness!). John Stewart already shows mastery of his power ring, knowing it will tell if Monitor is lying. Already, some "friendships" are forming. Arion sticks close to Dr.Polaris, as he did last issue; Cyborg and Geo-force too, reflecting the somewhat loose bond between the Titans and the Outsiders. And Harbinger's thought bubbles show she's aware of being controlled, bit by bit. Oops. If only she had spoken up when she first felt odd, huh?

Superman meets Batman, and this is how it should be. One of the post-COIE changes that ticked me off was the weakening of the Superman/Batman friendship! Superman's throwaway line about the unexpected volcanic eruption isn't throwaway; but the first sign of the Crisis. Oops. And now Pariah comes in, and disappears again. Whew. Wolfman and Perez sure know how to up the suspense.

The Great Disaster. Solovar's purpose is revealed, even as a kid I figured they picked him to gain Kamandi's trust. "Happily, boy,I am no such thing." I wonder if Dawnstar and her wings were chosen for this to.
Dawnstar mentions her tracking again, and this is what made me think. Why IS she here? She's a tracker, but nothing to track....

After all, even with this:

Originally Posted by thoth lad

Reading between the fairly comprehensively detailed lines, the original intent was that the best positions for those vibratory Plot Device forks to be placed was still to be found. That's why Dawnstar was picked. Doctor Polaris would have been another one partly due to his ability to detect magnetic fields but mainly because he wore one on his head.



Dawny could have been put on any time. Perhaps she was there to be a "bridge" as well. "A human with wings! Reality holds surprises for everyone," as Solovar said in #1. I became a big Solovar fan just because of his dialogue. I know Fanfie pointed out the conversion = brainwashing thing; I never really knew what it meant. I always thought it meant incarceration and rehabilitation, because the ape he sentenced was a murderer.

Harbinger's eyes look like a cat's here. Always struck me. Ah, aging Alex Luthor.

And now the Psycho Pirate makes trouble, not to my surprise. He warned us last issue, didn't he? Obsidian proves useful yet again.

Then the mention of Raven being unavailable. I remember making sure to keep an eye out for her through the series, but don't remember seeing her again at all. I always did wonder what Monitor meant by "this menace is one of EMOTION." Huh? Whataver emotions you feel, you will be dissolved by Anti-matter.

And it starts again, and I feel Obsidian's pain re the Monitor lying. And Monitor hints at knowing of Lyla's corruption. "Unless..." Does he have a gambit in mind?

And that's that. I echo Blacula's earlier comment. Seemed like not much happened. We only know the locations of 6/15 of Monitor's motley crew, leaving 9 missing. Looking back, the first act of Crisis really did start out a bit slowly - though it does a good job of building suspense and fear, IMO. Again, this pacing works better in a trade, and I fear i would have been a tad dissastisfied if I were reading it monthly.

Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958503 09/07/18 12:00 AM
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I, for one, really enjoyed Crisis #2! Whereas issue 1 kind of had me bored and ready for it to end, this one really popped for me.

First, the Anthro sequence was fun. I enjoyed the lighter touch to open this issue in stark opposition to the dire events opening the debut. Though Anthro wasn't exactly enlightened on sexual equality, he does at least have the excuse of being as close to literally as possible a caveman, after all! (Isn't that pretty much what we call our less-enlightened brethren? grin ) (This is one aspect that gets overlooked with Crisis: the fact that even with all of its heavy moments, body count and gravitas, it's actually entertaining and fun at times! How many event series are fun at all?) I'd never heard of Anthro before or since his role in Crisis, but it makes me wonder what his adventures were like and if this sequence is reflective at all of the tone of them.

The Anthro sequence bleeds directly into a nice sequence featuring our beloved Legion. We only see them for 2+ pages, but we see them a) searching for Dawny (with some nods to Drake's particular investment in finding her that non-LSH fans may or may not pick up on), b) working together nicely as a team to resolve the mess they inherited from Anthro and c) getting intel from Brainy that shows the LSH independently sussing out the impending danger without access to the Monitor.

This raised the question for me about just how much the Legion knew about the circumstances around Kara's death. Obviously, there's no aside from Brainy along the lines of, "it's happening", so it's hard to discern. I can't remember if the LSH issue that acknowledges her death clarifies this very much, but I imagine that the nature of this crisis should be such that it threatens all space and time. Otherwise, there's not much of a threat for the Legion.

My favorite sequence occurs next as we drop in on a fairly typical encounter between Batman and the Joker. I love that this feels like a typical Bronze Age Batman story until Barry gate-crashes. Batman storytelling of that era is seemingly impossible to replicate, but it is a joy for me to behold. Everything from the Joker's formerly signature purple trenchcoat and fedora to the ridiculously complex clue that Batman has deduced to seeing Batman in his classic Silver/Bronze Age blue-and-grays was just a feast for my eyes. I know it wasn't a recreation of that era at the time, but Wolfman and Perez did their job creating an accurate vignette of what Batman comics were like.

And then, in the middle of all of that goodness drops an ominous portent of things to come: a spectral, deteriorating Barry Allen Flash warning that the end is near. This was one of the defining images of Crisis and leads to one of its biggest pay-offs. I don't know if I or anyone who read this sequence "live" dared imagine they would kill the Flash! (Did I? I was not yet jaded on comics tropes, so I'd bet I was pretty worried about the Scarlet Speedster when reading that.) Even around this ominous sequence, I enjoyed the Joker's reaction to the Flash appearing and his thought balloon about Batman figuring out his clue. I mean, damn--remember when the Joker was actually...funny?

Next, we get a couple of pages returning to the Monitor's satellite. It nicely both recaps what happened last issue and explains the chosen group's mission. My favorite part about this was how Kal-L emerges as the voice of reason among them and with his stature influences the rest that it would be a good idea to go along in case the stakes are as high as Monny claims. (Full disclosure: I really love Earth-2 Superman, so scenes where he appears and plays a fitting role almost automatically are elevated for me.)

Ann really underlines that Guardians scene really well with her comment. Nothing for me to add there.

Then, we have another classic ion of the Silver and Bronze Ages, a moment between best buddies Superman (Earth-1, this time) and Batman as the latter tells the former about the creepy encounter with the Flash. In comes Pariah to warn of Earth's impending doom, and you've got to love the changing facial expressions of Clark and Bruce as you just know they're thinking, "holy shit!"

We shift next to the first of Monitor's teams defending his device in Kamandi's era. (I like how the narration shows this era's ambiguity.) And of course I like it because Kal-L is there and basically saves the day! grin Naw, Dawny, Solivar and Kamandi help some, too.

Next, is a one-page interlude showing baby Luthor is a'growin'! Plus, some telling narration as to where our girl Harbi's allegiance now stands. (Psst! She's walkin' on the dark side! gasp )

Then, we shift to another grouping from Team Monny comprised of Arion, Psycho Pirate and Obsidian defend the device in Arion's own digs. But the biggest threat is--surprise--actually Psycho Pirate, who tries to take over the whole deal, starting with making the suddenly-appearing Pariah...laugh? Like Ann, says this is delightfully twisted and another kinda unintentionally fun moment. But Arion and Obsidian have some good moves to use against him. The Pirate may still have gotten the upper hand, but the mysterious enemy whisks him away for his own dark moments. Certainly, we know by this time that Psycho Pirate has a larger role to play in this unfolding saga. Once the Pirate is gone, we have Pariah up to his usual schtick, leaving everyone bummed as the anti-matter is now visibly approaching.

Finally, the last couple of pages portend that all will not end well for ol' Monny himself. It's spelled out for us that Harbi's probably going to disappoint her "daddy", but maybe, just maybe...she can still provide salvation? :Hmmm:

So, while I can see how some of you might label this a not much happens issue, but I found a lot to love and found it a lot more refreshing, balanced and vibrant than the dour, mostly by-the-numbers first issue. But there's a lot more characterization here and a hell of a lot more pizazz overall. I like that it did all of this keeping the body (and Earth-) count to zero (well, except for the guy Joker offed and whatever was going on with Barry, I guess!), but maybe that's what was missing for you bloodthirsty types! For me, it was entertaining and sizzled for me in a way that the first issue didn't. Good show, I say!


Still "Lardy" to my friends!
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958586 09/08/18 05:32 AM
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“When you ask what are electrons and protons I ought to answer that this question is not a profitable one to ask, and does not really have a meaning. The important thing about electrons and protons is not what they are, but how they behave-- how they move. I can describe the situation by comparing it to a game of chess. In chess, we have various chessmen, kings, knights, pawns, and so on. If you ask what a chessman is, the answer would be, it is a piece of wood, or a piece of ivory, or perhaps just a sign written on paper. It does not matter. Each chessman has a characteristic way of moving, and this is all that matters about it. The whole game of chess follows from this way of moving the various chessmen.”
-- P.A.M. Dirac

So it is with Pariah, Harbinger, the Monitor, the Anti-Monitor, the Shadow Daemons, Lady Quark, and all the rest. It does not really matter who they are, or where they come from, or what their powers are. They have a rôle to play in Crisis, and when it is over, they are of no more use or interest, either to writers or readers.

Until the next Crisis.


“I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal.” -- Groucho Marx
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958592 09/08/18 07:00 AM
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It is interesting that we have Kamandi and the Legion characters interacting together. I know that recently DC has been trying to connect Kamandi's time to Legion, but it does not make much sense with only the original Kirby books. I think COIE was aware of these differences and tried to reconcile them at the end of the book, but that only made matters worse. I think I count three or four potential futures in this title, if you count background characters and cameos.


Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
Re: A Look Back: Crisis on Infinite Earths #1-12
Ann Hebistand #958701 09/08/18 07:32 PM
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Crisis # 1
I’ve enjoyed reading the reviews and comments on this series; they inspired me to re-read Crisis # 1. Here are some thoughts:

I agree that the demise of Earth-3 is extremely well depicted. It adds so much color and flavor to these characters who were intended to be one-shot analogues of JLA heroes, but who appeared off and on over the years. We never really got to learn much about them, and that’s okay. In a few pages, Wolfman tells us everything we need to know: Ultra-Man (like Superman) goes down fighting. Power Ring’s last words are a cry about being left alone. Owlman wonders why the gods gave him and the other Crime Syndicate members powers if they couldn’t save themselves. We don’t get to learn much about Johnny Quick or Superwoman, but we learn just enough to care about the others—to see them as individuals—before they die. It’s concise storytelling, and (to me, at least) it works.

It was a welcome surprise to learn that the only hero on Earth-3 is a Luthor analogue, that he’s married to Lois, and that they send their only son away in a repeat of Superman’s origin. This left me thinking, sure, why not?—especially since so much was done with it. Lois and Luthor’s final kiss is moving, and, as a twist, their infant winds up on the abandoned JLA satellite—a good way of keeping me in suspense about when or if the baby would ever be found. (As it turns out, the baby is found and retrieved very quickly by The Monitor—which mostly negates the suspense. I would have been fine if this thread had been left hanging for an issue or two.)

Then we are introduced to the unseen Monitor and Lyla as the latter is transformed into Harbinger and sent on her mission to recruit various characters. This sort of recruitment drive is a well-established trope in comics; it reminded me of Prof. X’s gathering of mutants in X-Men Annual #1. Even so, Wolfman finds some variety in how characters are gathered. Blue Beetle goes willingly apparently because there’s nothing good on TV. (He was a relatively new character to the DCU at this time, so any personality he exhibits would do.) We aren’t shown Firestorm being recruited—only that he is a willing participant in recruiting Killer Frost. Unlike others, I enjoyed Psycho-Pirate using his power to make KF fall in love with Firestorm. Psycho-Pirate is a villain, and an unstable one at that; it makes sense that he would find the most cliched manner possible to manipulate a female antagonist’s emotions. As for KF—she’s a villain; I feel no sympathy for her. However, I did enjoy Firestorm’s confusion over how to react; he’s still a teenager (“Then again, she’s not all that bad looking. Maybe . . .”).

There are a lot of surprises in who gets recruited—as there should be; it would be boring if we could predict where this is going. My only concern is that there are too many characters to keep track of. When we get to the two-page spread on pp. 26-27, we learn Harbinger has been quite busy. She’s recruited a total of 15 heroes and villains from across the expanse of the DCU. Obviously, this story is written for fans—for readers who would be familiar with most of these characters and have some understanding of their personalities and back stories. I’m not sure how a totally new reader would respond. Currently, as a seasoned DC reader (albeit one who has not consistently read comics in more than a decade), I found myself overwhelmed with so many characters and wondering in what order to read the various word and thought balloons. As a fan at the time, I felt like a kid in a candy story with an unlimited budget. In the years since then, I’ve come to appreciate the maxim less is more.

However, Wolfman keeps things moving. He introduced shadowy villains early in the story and has shown us the power of these shadows when one takes over and apparently corrupts a Harbinger replicant. Now many shadows attack our heroes en masse, which provides a nice set up for seeing them in action and working together. It also leads in to the reveal of The Monitor.

Another effectiive strategy Wolfman uses in this story is to foreshadow The Monitor’s death and tell us Lyla will be responsible. How can this attractive and powerful character, whom he thinks of as the daughter he never had, kill him? Wonderful suspense.

So, yes, I like this first issue very much. It takes tropes of super-hero fiction and adds something new to them. Wolfman seems keenly aware that his readers have read similar stories before, so he adds a few twists. Doing so while featuring so many characters from different settings is remarkable. I get exhausted just thinking about writing this script.

I haven’t said anything about the art yet; as is my wont, I prefer to focus on the writing. However, Perez does not disappoint, and his art is well complemented by Giordano, Constanza, and Tollin. (Letterers and colorists remain unsung heroes in comics; however, there were many choices made by the latter two which added to the experience of reading this story. In an issue with so many word and thought balloons, it’s an amazing achievement that none were distracting or covered important details of the art. Also, look at the vibrant colors on pp. 26-27. They establish every character without getting in the way. After reading so many comics in which colorists phoned it in by providing just one color for the background or background characters, I appreciate the hard work that must have gone into coloring this issue.)

Crisis # 1 is both familiar and new. Wolfman and his collaborators knew their craft well enough to give readers what they wanted but not always they expected.


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