Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Superman Re-Read

At the beginning of the year I began a new two-pronged reading project. I got tired of announcing reading projects that petered out quickly, so I decided to wait a while and see if it stuck before talking about it.

I'm reading the whole Superman oeuvre. One thread is starting from John Byrne's Man of Steel mini. That one I'm trying to read an issue a day, which I've successfully averaged, despite missing days here and there. The second starts from Action Comics #1. That one I read as much as I can when I can without a set goal. Sometimes I can binge it, sometimes I need a few days off from it.

I'm currently up through Superman v2 #15, moving into the final act of the Byrne era. It's really the post-Byrne era of Stern, Ordway, Jurgens etc that I was excited to reread, but I've really enjoyed returning to the Byrne era. Despite all of the changes to continuity, there's something delightfully old school about most of the stories themselves. I just got through the awkward Millenium crossover, with its revelations that will be almost immediately dropped and never referred to again.

More specifically, I just got through one of the most poorly conceived plot developments in Superman history, in which the Kents tell Lois that Superman was Clark's stepbrother, and that the Kents raised them together. If that story got out, it would do nothing to protect Clark's loved ones, so it served no real purpose. I think this twist was forgotten by the time Lois learned Clark's identity, but if it weren't, I think this pointless, useless lie would have been a bigger sticking point than just generally keeping his secret.

I actually started serious collecting about the time Man of Steel came out, and I have all the Superman issues up through about 1992. I used to reread them once a year or so but haven't for a while. Maybe I will join you.
My memory of the Millenium crossovers was that weird trip with Hal Jordan through a region "that wasn't really here until we came this way" or something like that. Much better was the Adventures of Superman story that told of Gangbusters battle and Jose's subsequent paralysis. I thought that one was very well written and quite powerful. But yes the DC Universe effects of Millenium were largely forgotten.

The Kent's off-the-cuff "save" story was ok. I didn't mind it. You are right that if it had gotten out it wouldn't have been good news for the Kents (as is actually mentioned in the issue) but then the point of Clark's secret identity in this era was more about allowing him to have a normal private life instead of being always Superman on call 24/7. So Jonathon's "story" was to divert Lois who was about to guess that Superman was actually Kent. In some ways it was part of Byrne's answer to why people didn't realise the truth, just like the Luthor story (he rejected the possibility because he couldn't believe that anyone as powerful as Superman would ever pretend to be a mere human). It did have some ongoing consequence for Clark and Lois relationship. She was much colder to him for a while which also pushed her closer to Jose. You are right that it was never really mentioned much after a few snide remarks by Lois in the next few issues and was apparently forgotten over the following years. (After all the only ones who heard it apparently were Lois and Perry.) You're probably right that it wasn't agreat idea, but then maybe that's the problem with off-the-cuff ideas. Maybe it was never meant to be a great idea and Jonathon was a bit of dope to suggest it.

Action and Superman were titles that were usually left in the Newsagent when I started picking up DC books. Superman fights the Yellow Peril or the Planeteer. Ambush Bug was making his debut. He wasn't in many of the early JLA stories that were coming out around that time. Conway was focussing on the B-Listers ahead of the JLD debut. He wasn't a character that did a lot for me anyway, even if it was Crisis.

Byrne's run was the first I'd pick up consistently. And I really enjoyed it. Metallo, Bloodsport and Rampage might not have been awe inspiring (even if Metallo was an old foe). But I liked the depowered Superman. It evened up the battles to some degree and made the likes of Darkseid and the Host more impressive. I liked the focus on his life as Clark Kent both with the Planet and with his parents and Lana Lang too. Back issues showed there was a lot of that going on previously. But this felt as though it had more consistency to it. Byrne had to add in some crossovers very ealry on. First with Legends and then Millennium. Since Byrne was the artist on Legends, I guess that was easier. I don't have the Millennium one, so I don't know how well that went.

Luthor is an utter creep. A quick glance over the first couple of issues shows him bully a worker into his bed. He fires her when her lab results don't match his preconceptions.

It probably turned out that I was reading for the Byrne art. I do remember enjoying the start of the Gangbuster arc over in Adventure. That might have had a lot to do with the art there too. I probably dropped it as Byrne left the art chores.

On the Legion front, the Superboy story looked like what it was: A continuity fix. Although I probably didn't appreciate the extend of it at the time. I enjoyed the Supergirl story itself. But even then I had read Kara's last issues with the Legion and JLA as well as Crisis. I don't think I read a great deal more about Matrix, but I was willing to give it a chance.

If memory serves, it didn't take long for everything else to come back. I recall an Annual cover featuring Titano with a groan.

Yeah the Titano story was pretty meh, although it did introduce a "mad" scientist (or at least an unethical one) who had an ongoing critical role with the Rampage character.

I used to love all of Byrne's work, the art , the plotting, the dialogue. Now a lot of it seems, I don't know, a bit shallow? That doesn't sound right but I'm not sure what words to use. I really liked and still do some of what he introduced, particularly as you said Thoth the emphasis on Clark as the "real" person and Superman as the alter ego, like the costume he put on to allow him to do all the stuff "that nobody else could" but still get on with his real life. Very refreshing compared to the old "Clark Kent is who I pretend to be".

Probably my favourite Byrne storyline was the Galactus one over in Fantastic Four. As he says in the collected trade, he was given the task of bringing greatness back to Galactus and he really did.

Oh and I know a lot of people hated the issue when Superman killed the pocket universe Zod, but I thought the reasoning behind it made sense and more importantly it had real ongoing consequences that are4 still playing themselves out today (or they would be if not for Flashpoint and New52). Even if that was Byrne's last issue, the writers who carried on with it acknowledged what he had done and that much of it had been at least roughly plotted by Byrne before he left.

Adventures of Superman appealed to me far less at the time but now Marv Wolfman's writing and Jerry Ordway's art come across to me as a much more nuanced creation. The superman portrayed therein has a lot more depth to him. At least that seems to be how I feel now.

Stuff I've read the last few days:

The Skyhook story that revealed (elliptically) that Maggie Sawyer is a lesbian. Surely one of the strongest and most enduring elements of Byrne's reboot, it's hard to appreciate how progressive this was back at the time. Sneaking Northstar into Alpha Flight was one thing, but sneaking Maggie into Superman is something else! I hadn't remembered young Jamie being infected at the end. I don't remember if this was ever followed up on (surely not by Byrne considering how close to the end I am), so I guess I'll see.

The first reboot appearance of Brainiac. (Kind of.) An enjoyable story, and an interesting way to introduce Brainiac to the books. It was so clearly a setup for future stories, I can only assume Byrne didn't realize how close he was to the end. Does he even get to write the first proper post-Crisis Brainiac story? My memories are quite fuzzy. I have always HATED the mohawked version of Brainiac. I don't remember how long it hangs around, but I know it will plague me again in the future.

I know what you mean about the "shallow" feeling. I think when I described it as "old-school" it was a kinder spin on the same feeling that it wasn't as revolutionary as it felt at the time. The reason I'm so looking forward to what I call (tongue in cheek but not unkindly) the "first committee" era from Byrne's departure through Superman 150 is that I feel they took lots of the bits laid out by Byrne and Wolfman and crafted a truly new Superman mythos out of it.

For the record, the "second committee" is the era of Loeb and Kelly.

I remember following Byrne over to Superman and being a little underwhelmed by it compared to his work at Marvel. Ironically, I thought he was really starting to cook down his final stretch before leaving. But looking back, he built such a strong foundation for the updated mythos that Jurgens, Ordway and crew really ran away with. So much creativity and great work highlighted by the Reign of the Supermen storyline. That era from Byrne's departure until Loeb, Kelly and company took over is my favorite Superman era, even recognizing that it showed some wear toward the end with increasingly gimmicky events like their Superman Red/Blue. Though Loeb, Kelly, etc. had some good points, I hate how they immediately started to rewrite the Byrne mythos. In the end this eventually lead me to leave the Superman books and only dip in occasionally where I had been a stout supporter.

Hey, guys,

I'm enjoying this thread a lot. I got rid of all my Byrne Superman stories a long time ago (I concur with Grant Morrison's comment in his non-fiction prose book Supergods, "Byrne's Superman had the prefabricated sterility of your average mid-80s prime time TV show,") but lately I've rediscovered the Super-stuff by what BFOB calls "The First Committee," so I'm really psyched that I'll soon be able to join in the fun.

As for my first Post-Crisis Superman experience, it was the three Armageddon 2001 Annuals. The Adventures one made me a Maxima fan for life (and one of the greatest moments of my life as a fan was when I got to tell Weezie Simonson in person how much I love that Annual, and she smiled and said it's one of her own favorites of the Super-stories she wrote. The Action one, where Supes runs for President, is very good, too (interestingly, Roger Stern wrote both that story and the Captain America for President story from the early 1980s.) But the Superman one -- yuk! Jurgens was at his most mean-spirited, and Dusty Abell's art looked borderline amateurish to me.

IIRC, I lost interest completely not long after the Wedding Special (was that Action 700? I can't remember.) And while I was on hiatus from comics during the shift from Jurgens/Simonson to Loeb/Kelly, I did pick up the handful of 1999 issues of Superman that Steve Epting got to draw before he and Dan Jurgens were rudely shuffled off onto Aquaman...which was cancelled within the year.)

I was just recalling how Byrne managed to get in giant plot points, that would have previously been the domain of imaginary stories, into his ongoing plots.

Lex Luthor discovers Superman's secret ID? Yup. Second issue.
Lana Lang knows who Superman is? - Seems to have done since they were kids.
Lois Discovers Superman's ID? - Yes, but she's been mind controlled by The Host at the time.
Superman kills? - Yes, and it had a prolonged impact on the book. Not to mention it dealt with the Phantom Zone.
Superman with personality disorder? - A massive upgrade to Superman Red/Blue, Supermen controlled by different costumes etc. giving him two identities for a prolonged period.

It's interesting to hear about views of folks who had read his Marvel work. I would have seen Alpha Flight. Beyond that I can't be sure and they were probably glimpses/ reprints. I knew I liked the art a lot, but I didn't really have any depth with it.

I didn’t read any of his Marvel work consistently. I discovered X-Men a few issues after his departure, so my main contact would have been an irregular smattering of Alpha Flight and FF.

For anyone reading along, this week I’m going to read (but don’t promise to discuss every issue of)

Action 598, 599
World of Smallville 1, 2
Superman 16
Adventures 439
The Earth Stealers

I’m using mikes amazing world to recreate a precise publication order

The Earth Stealers -- I still have a copy of that one. Yay!

I really wish DC would collect post-Crisis Superman from Man of Steel-on, at least thru Jurgens' time there. They already have a Superman: Exile Omnibus and a death and Return of Superman Omnibus. There's no reason DC couldn't go before, between and after. They've already done hardcovers of Byrne's Wonder Woman work. It seems bizarre that they haven't done same with his Superman and comprehensively beyond.

I agree, Lardy, the consistency of quality is quite impressive in hindsight, although, as I said, there's a big portion I missed, right between the wedding and the short Epting/Jurgens string of issues. Would you say that gap is worth filling with dollar-bin floppies?

I'd have to do some research on that. Seems like the quality dip may have occurred some time after the wedding, but the ol' memory is unreliable as to when.

Hm. Looks like there's not a lot of greatness after the wedding and until the end of Jurgens' run in Superman 150. I'm not crazy about the Electric Superman/Red/Blue storyline, and that takes a lot of time not long after the wedding. Just glancing at the covers an descriptions is not showing a lot of memorable stuff. I noticed some Maxima stuff as part of a version of the Superman Revenge Squad, but I don't think that's worth getting.

I was very invested in the serialized soap aspect of the books, and that continued on past the wedding. Maybe not the red and blue era, that’s when I finally dropped off. But I’ve got a long way to go before I have to worry about that, and I’ll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Yep, there's lots and lots and LOTS of goodness before you have to worry about the staleness setting in!

The Skyhook story and Jamie was followed up a bit over a year later in Superman #34 by Jerry Ordway and Kerry Gammill.

The Brainiac reboot was a slow development that didn't really come to a conclusion until Action #649, another couple of years away. I seem to remember a comment in the letters page or somewhere how this was always the long term plan and it just took a while to work its way out. Like a lot of fans I was uncertain in the early days, but the writers said "trust us" and I think in the end they did well.

Is this the page you are using to determine your reading order?
http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/features/character.php?page=appearances&characterid=580

I have a lot fo catching up to do.

No, but that might be easier. I’m just sorting all DC comics by publication date, and each week I scan through a month or two to assemble another week’s worth of reading. I don’t know that I’m going to read ALL the spinoffs or out of continuity projects, but I will read some and this way I should be able to catch them all.

I was looking at some of Mike's included issues and a lot of the side comics where Superman is listed as "guest appearance" are literally him flying past or making a single line comment. Swamp Thing #68 for example is just a shot of him flying after "the Manhunter" assigned to him followingon from Superman #13. Seeing him does change what one of the characters in the book does, but it has no effect on Superman himself.
(surprisingly there are a number of "chats with the President in there as well.) So I wouldn't bother too much chasing down "guest appearances" unless you already have the issues.

Ok forget all the somewhat negative I said about Byrne above.
I just finished reading the 6 issue Man of Steel mini-series and I thought it was great! Not all of it but some bits of it were really terrific. I particularly liked issues 2,4 and 6 - the Lois Lane issue, the Lex Luthor issue and the final revelation issue. The characterisations were great, the story engrossing and they really felt to me like Superman. As different as they were to the silver/bronze age they carried on the same legacy and I could really believe that this is Superman.
Perhaps the greatest compliment is how much of the groundwork laid here was revisited and developed so many times over the years to come, long after Byrne had left.
Great stuff and glad to be reading it again.

I just reread Superman 16, John Byrnes Prankster story. It hadn’t made much of an impression on me in the past, but I really enjoyed it this time. I think Byrne knew Prankster was never going to be an A-List villain, so focused on doing one good prankster story, rather than trying to set him up as a formidable recurring villain. Certainly, the fact that he spent 25 years on his scheme isn’t going to be replicable. Having just read Prankster’s first appearance last week in my other, GA Superman readthrough, it was a lucky bit of synchronicity that made the character stand out from the crowd.

Wow. Not only did Lois tell the entire Planet staff about Clark and Superman being raised together, Perry had to talk her down from publishing a story about it. This is clearly NOT the Lois who later marries Clark.

Just read the annual that reintroduced Cadmus, Guardian and Newsboy Legion. Great stuff. And I'm really looking forward to them being integral to the coming years.

Closing in on the end of the Byrne era. Partly sad, partly excited for what's ahead.

Where does she tell the planet staff about it? Do you mean page 7 in Superman #15? There it's actually Clark who mentions being "raised" with Superman, and it looks like it is just before they leave the file room to head back to the City room. Lois comments in the City Room are all about them being in cahoots together but nothing more specific. Is there another place it is followed up?

Nevertheless I do agree that her attitude here does show some thoughtlessness regarding the consequences of sharing her knowledge, and no-one else seems to portray her as quite the angry woman that Byrne does. It probably is good that this whole plot point was ignored in the future.

In The Earth Stealers, she’s talking to Perry and Jimmy in the middle of the newsroom.

I'm sure Byrne put that (ill-advised) raised-together explanation in there to avoid this new age of Superman feeling like a rehash of the Silver Age. If Lois gets "evidence" that Clark and Superman are not one and the same early on, then he and subsequent writers will not fall into the trap of making Lois all about uncovering the secret. He did something similar in Superman #2 by having Luthor dismiss the evidence of Clark being Superman. This challenges him and others to move onward and upward.