They say patience is a virtue. Depending on your comic shop's compliance, you might have to wait another two weeks for the issues. But at least the covers will have Legion branding:
What are all the tie-ins? I thought Superman 15 was the beginning. Is it Superman 14-15, Supergirl 33, Millenium 1-2, then the Legion series? Our scroller lists Superman 13, as well, but shows it coming out in November?!?
What are all the tie-ins? I thought Superman 15 was the beginning. Is it Superman 14-15, Supergirl 33, Millenium 1-2, then the Legion series? Our scroller lists Superman 13, as well, but shows it coming out in November?!?
Sorry, forgot to update the text. It's the cover for SUPERMAN VOL. 2: THE UNITY SAGA: HOUSE OF EL HC, which comes out in November.
Also, we've known about Supergirl #33 for a month or so when they changed the cover then to add the Legion symbol. Don't know why they waited this long to make the change in publication, though.
The weirdest thing is that they're changing the Supergirl cover... to an almost identical one by a different artist [to the point that the replacement even signs it as "after" the original artist]. Why?
My views are my own and do not reflect those of everyone else... and I wouldn't have it any other way.
I think it's simply a matter of Ryan Sook designing Legionnaires, in this case Lightning Lad as white with a weird mohawk hairstyle. Then they started working on the series and came up with better designs and story details that made sense to have Garth and Ayla look differently. Unfortunately, the initial designs were made public and other artists drew covers/pages with the initial designs. DC decided to correct the initial art as best they could but Superman #14 and Supergirl #33 may have been too far down the pipeline to get all of the changes in necessary in time. I don't think there was any sort of controversy or disagreements between anyone involved. That's just people trying to start rumors/controversy.
I picked up Superman and the DC Preview. No sign of Supergirl, and Counter Guy didn't on when it would be in, even hinting that we might not get it! Has Counter Guy been possessed? Is he hoarding all copies of *every* Supergirl version for himself? ID DC's handling of this been muddled? Stay tuned to your Omnicom!
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Given that we've pretty much all seen the relevant pages from Superman #14 for weeks, is it worthwhile starting a new thread on it now that it's officially out? Or just talk about it here?
Anyway, I read it. Not a whole lot to say, other than whatever one thinks about the Legion redesigns, I'm pretty sure the decompression is going to drive me nuts.
Overall, it's a mixed issue, taking the story on it's merits rather than the Legion parts. I was initially a bit underwhelmed by it, but having typed the below it's grown on me a bit more.
Every cast member gets to say part of a sentence. It happens with both group encounters in the issues, firstly with the Super-cast and then with the arrival of the Legion. Bendis may think that it gives dialogue to more cast members. It actually, makes them all completely interchangeable and devoid of any individuality. Had they been possessed by a villain, then it might work. Other than that, it doesn't bode well for a team book.
This is a finale. As I've only read 1 previous instalment, I imagine that the hordes of wordless bystanders all played their part at some point. There's little explanation in the dialogue. Normally, that wouldn't be a problem. After all, it's my fault for not picking up the story. However, this issue is one that DC should know will pick up some new readers. Apart form there being some sort of secret conspiracy behind Krytpon;s destruction and everyone suddenly fighting because of it, there's not much weight behind the payoff of the issue.
Considering there's 4-5 panels for a lot of the pages, plus a couple of double splash pages, there's not exactly a lot of room for the story. That might be another issue with a Legion book: readers used to having more pages & plot in an issue finding that Bendis gives them a word or two of someone else's sentence in a splash page.
The fight scenes are brief which is fine as half the cast would have died through Kryptonite poisoning had they continued. The villains turn on each other. Jor-El seems happy to let them all die while Kal saves everyone with the helopp of some arriving cavalry. They're all promptly picked up for affray by the Hawk police. Considering the space, this moves on at a fair pace.
Superman delivers an or-else proposal to large group of planetary representatives. Superboy's idea is to form a united planets, modelled after our own United Nations. Strangely, no one else in the room has thought of this, despite previously published alliances. Hopefully, they all pick up on Superboy's ideal of what such an organisation *could* be. Any planet that has a problem or needs help can get it, while deals and conversational will all happen in the open.
Perhaps their lack of enthusiasm is because they know that, if they followed our actual UN, in a month the Khunds and the Thanagarians will have deadlocked a security council, Kanjar Ro will be using economic blackmail to covertly take over another planet and the Psions will experiment on an entire race while everyone wrings their hands in outrage.
Fortunately any awkward cynicisms (or having to plot it) is swept aside by a deus ex machina….of space...from the 31st (and it is the 31st) century. The Legion arrive from the future to tell everyone that they did agree to all this. It's something I hope is explored. What if it was only the arrival of the Legion that swung the balance? What was the alternative timeline? Perhaps in that one, the cast ethnicity was as originally previewed and DC didn't have to recall loads of books to pulp There are two men called Dox in the room. Hopefully one of them will get the ball rolling. Perhaps the one from the future is behind it?
Another interesting idea is that Saturn Girl expects both eras to share information. They offer Superboy membership as a method of sharing information. I guess they can put away that mindwiping machine this 'boot. A couple more panels in the page could have made more of Superman thinking the invitation was for him. We only see his surprise ("huh"), so there's still time of Imra to tell him he has to pass an initiation test first.
It's the idea that the future might effectively be shaping its own past that it the highlight of the issue. I'm not sure that this in intentional, but I hope so. Superboy using the information he learns in the future is a far cry form wiping his memory as in the Silver Age. As a finale, it certainly packs in a climactic battle along with some repercussions and a further payoff from the future. That's not bad considering the limited number of panels. Having not read previous instalments, I can't say if a reader felt short-changed by the amount in the issue or not. The arrival of the Els, the formation of the UP, the Legion arrival, the misinterpreted invitation and Jon getting asked to join are all solid beats. Superman not being like his father and Zod and Ursa's dialogue free moments are added bonuses.
As for the Legion, it's a group shot before focusing in on the three founders, in a nice nod to tradition. There's not much that hasn't already been revealed. Someone looks a lot more like Phantom Girl is about it. Back in Adventure #247 Superboy could see that he was joining a Legion. There were plenty of faces in the background. This time round, we know who they are as Jon will be joining a cast that very possibly went through a lot of adventures similar to those we 've seen in previous volumes. It's no surprise that the Legion and its impact are the highlights.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
The take on the United Planets is definitely an interesting one. For once, it is firmly established that it is more on the lines of the United Nations than the United States, which has often been an ambiguity in past versions (usually it seems to me closer to something like NATO or maybe the EU). I mentioned in the big Bendis/Sook thread that a big difference is that the UP is usually taken to center around Earth and her colonies/seed worlds, but it's especially weird to note that groups like the Dominion and Khunds, which are usually rivals to the United Planets, are apparently being integrated into it from its foundation (maybe that will change by the 31st century?).
Anyway, I'm pretty sure that a few minutes after the Legion showed up, the meeting place was fated to be bathed in stray gases from the Brotherhood Nebula, which would've caused feeling of peace and unity among the delegates and convinced them to adopt the proposal, and thus the Legionnaires didn't affect history at all!
Anyway, I'm pretty sure that a few minutes after the Legion showed up, the meeting place was fated to be bathed in stray gases from the Brotherhood Nebula, which would've caused feeling of peace and unity among the delegates and convinced them to adopt the proposal, and thus the Legionnaires didn't affect history at all!
I think those stray gases might be from the new, spaced out Element Lad's flatulence.
While the Legion tell us that Unity Day was the formation of the UP, it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone in the room joined it. I imagine a fair amount of stalking out of the room in a Huff...Of Space!
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
I’m trying to avoid spoilers until I can read the issues myself but I do have to say the art by Ivan Reis and Kevin Maguire is pretty beautiful to behold!
I thought it a nice touch that Maguire gets to be involved in the start of this, as he was the last artist and the end of the last volume. I'd be thrilled if he could do a few fill in issues (at least) in the new run.
Also, he got thrown under a bus in the JLA 3000 thing. But mainly the first point.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Not sure why they had to blur the lower right corner. The art would probably look nice without text. I did notice black lightning lad and black light lass became darker, maybe so people can notice some of the members are brown. In other art, matter eater lad seems brown. All of the different skin colors will probably increase the chance of coloring errors.
Should we just go ahead and use this thread for discussion of Superman #15 as well?
SPOILERS AHEAD:
Anyway, though it's a somewhat more substantive appearance of the Legion, there's not a whole lot of new content.
Some points:
1. The Legion apparently arrived four minutes earlier than they intended, which creates awkwardness. 2. The Legionnaires are said to represent "one power per planet". 3. Everyone joins the U.P., including Khunds and Dominators.
DC push Timberwolf as at the forefront, as their new Wolverine stand in. Lightning Lad is also prominent on the cover, and recent ethnicity switches cross my mind. Since he's a founder and was prominent in two ethnicities in promotional and interior art anyway, hopefully this wasn't part of a tick box exercise. As with Timberwolf, it is something that some thought goes into.
Gold Lantern might be black, which at least helps diversify things a bit further. The less tick-boxy the team is, the more I prefer it.
Having such a crowd means we don't get to see the Guardian meet with Gold Lantern? Or a meeting between Dox and Dox? It just shows that nearly everyone there is just filler. That applies to nearly all of the Legion.
Adam Strange comes across as oddly inexperienced. I put it down to him having to give Supes some news about his dad. I can't believe it never occurred to Adam to have a United Planets either, considering '50s sci-fi comics were full of such things and he's met L.E.G.I.O.N. often enough. I can't believe L.E.G.I.O.N. didn't already derail all this, or the Invasion races step in or the GLC or ...
But that would take away from the repetitive fawning over Jon and his idea. Still, it *was* important enough to get the Legion form the future. They aren't there for Jon's exploits as Superboy necessarily. I ownder what that says about his career to come.
Having both characters in a scene possess the same speech mannerism is odd ("is--is" from Adam and "that--that" from Supes.)
The plotting weaves well between Superman's present and the supporting flashbacks.
Bendis does indeed suggest that the Legion's arrival helped push the formation of the United Planets, which led to the formation of the Legion, who travelled back in time to help push the circumstances of their own creation...
In the next reboot (Nonaboot?) Imra, Rokk, Brainy, Garth and Brin (DC desperate to have a Wolverine still) travel back to Smallville in the '50s to haze Clark on a school day. But Brainy gets it wrong and they arrive on a weekend when the school is closed. They return to the future and wink out of existence, having failed to create the circumstances that would lead to their own formation.
Supes is pretty forward in speaking for the Earth. I'd love to hear his chat with the UN or the US President about him signing the planet up to the UP.
We had a two page splash last issue with the Legion telling us it was going to be called Unity Day. We have another splash page this issue as everyone, including Superman, struggles with a name for the occasion, leaving it for Superboy to call it the same name as the Legion already blabbed. This lack of freewill is possiblyy closer to the Watchmen series than DC's attempts through Doomsday Clock.
Having read comics from the '50s, '60s and '80s in the last week, the lack of a contained story in the issue is evident. It's the closing chapter in something designed for a trade. Quite often padding comes in the form of reducing panels per page. There are plenty of slash pages this issue. But they are all easily worth having.: The arrival of the Legion (again); Unity Day (Cheese Day); Krypton's destruction and the group going back home at the end. Imra is the one to introduce herself, and I wonder if that is linked to Doomsday Clock, or have they just given up with that thread (an annoying DC habit)
The Legion vanish into their Time Tunnel. Perhaps they are using it to visit other places in this time. Perhaps they have returned home (If it's the latter and they can pop out with pin pint precision later on, it wrecks the 4 minutes early thing this issue). Either way, Superboy doesn't get to join or even fail miserably in any membership tests. It looks as though we'll get a whole issue with Damian and perhaps even a whole other issue with Lois. Maybe then, he'll decide to go? Maybe the Titans will need an issue? Since the Legion issues have been solicited, there should be some compression here at least.
Legion characterisations: They're happy to lightly criticise Brainy, who seems to be the one who brought them back in time.
Imra thinks she's the only one who could understand Superboy's hardships.
Wildfire fancies Supergirl. With Sun Boy being a rather literal interpretation (unless he can "Flame Off" which considering Timberine and The Terrific Four, I wouldn't put past DC) perhaps Drake is picking up Dirk's personality? Does that mean there's someone under the suit or is he overcompensating?
I peeked at Supergirl's issue in the shop, on the off chance there was a Legion reference. I didn't see one, and it's a shame she wasn't at least put in a possible, hint of a frame for a Legion call up of her own.
A sad note is that Jor-El's last moment on Krypton is not one of love with his partner. It's one of terror as he sees a villainous version of himself appear from the future.
Lightning Lad is asked to hold it together, reminding us of his tenuous grip of leadership in 'boots past.
The hyperbole of DC's Marketing continues to be hilarious. Soon it will be:- "So good your eyeballs will refuse to read anything else!" - FawningSycophant.com "Much better than Alan Moore's version where all our ideas originated!" - Owned By The Same Conglomerate Weekly. "Better than this team's best thing, which we told you last offering was their best., And it will be their best thing, until their very next thing which we'll tell you is their best thing." - NotBitingTheHandThatFeeds.org
Overall, the issue improved as I sat here typing about it. It's the finale of something, which usually bumps things up a bit. I strongly doubt I'd be picking up an issue of the series without the Legion in it though. Rating - 3.75 and that's with points for the iconic moments in this 'boot.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
I only want to say that Ivan Reis is a much better artist than the overrated Sook. Tinya here (in Superman 15) doesn’t look like a teletubbie, or Jeckie a pink zombie. Even Ultra Boy is great!
I don't know if the Legion's origin will be replayed in the upcoming LSH series. If not, then Superman #15 will be a touchstone for this new Legion. It's a delightful introduction to this Legion, while also being an epic historical event in the story of Superman and the whole galaxy.
"Everything about this is going to feel different." (Saturn Girl, Legion of Super-Heroes #1)
And so... all the originals Legionnaires born in Earth, now are aliens or born in a a colony planet (Colossal Boy, Bouncing Boy, Sun Boy, Invisible Kid, Karate Kid, Wlldfire). And maybe this time Ayla is not Garth sister, and Nura don't have a sister named Mysa. Bendis is a genius!
It does say represent, rather than born. That should give enough room for Mysa to represent Sorcerors World amd Nura Naltor if so desired and still have them be related.
Gim could represent Mars where his origin was and still have been born on Earth if need be.
I always though Rokk being born on Earth was a weird retconned tweak. I'd be rolling my eyes if it was being introduced here and I'm happy to see it hopefully gone.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Gim could represent Mars where his origin was and still have been born on Earth if need be.
That's what they did in the Reboot from memory, which also emphasised the one planet one representative rule along with the team representing the UP.
Originally Posted by thoth lad
Imra is the one to introduce herself, and I wonder if that is linked to Doomsday Clock, or have they just given up with that thread (an annoying DC habit)
Actually they dealt with that in the most recent issue of Doomsday Clock #11, kind-of in a ham-fisted way.
Azymondias has a talk with mysterious-blonde-woman-telepath-wearing-a-legion-ring and explains his plan and everything that has happened. When he convinces girl that she isn't really part of this timeline she disappears into a puff of plot-logic-dust.
Really great payoff for all our waiting. (Sarcasm) Thanks SO much Johns (although quite possibly it wasn't his choice but an editorial mandate?)
This is an entirely new continuity. There is no reason to assume that Light Lass and Lightning Lad are siblings, or that half the Legion was born on Earth. All will be revealed. Eventually. I suppose.
Better The Devil You Know Than The Devil You Don't -- Irish proverb
I can only hope that we get a nice multicultural mix across *all* the worlds in the UP, including those with powers, avoiding any hint of the dreaded Marzal Syndrome. That was one plus with having a number of heroes from a single world.
Originally Posted by stile86
Actually they dealt with that in the most recent issue of Doomsday Clock #11, kind-of in a ham-fisted way.
Azymondias has a talk with mysterious-blonde-woman-telepath-wearing-a-legion-ring and explains his plan and everything that has happened. When he convinces girl that she isn't really part of this timeline she disappears into a puff of plot-logic-dust.
Really great payoff for all our waiting. (Sarcasm) Thanks SO much Johns (although quite possibly it wasn't his choice but an editorial mandate?)
That was well...poor seems like too nice a word really.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
Reboot Karate Kid was from an Earth colony as well, as I recall.
My initial thought is that it really doesn't matter much whether, for instance, Bouncing Boy is from Earth or not.
Although the last couple of incarnations of the Emerald Empress which have tied her to Orando have rubbed me the wrong way, so...
The Omega Colony for Karate Kid.
And yeah, it does not really matter for me if Chuck or Gim are from Earth. Most of the Earth-born Legionnaires had very little that "marked' them as coming from Earth. And look at the likes of Nightwind, Lamprey, Jed Rikane... all from Earth, I always thought their ancestors had migrated TO Earth generations ago.
There was a lot of world-building over the Legion's 6O-yr run. We visited many of the Legionnaire's homeworlds, with varied climates, cultures, and politics. Hamilton would sometimes throw out a half-dozen bizarre worlds in a single issue-- most never to be seen again. I hope this Bendis-Sook Legion will last long enough for us to see details of the New Legion's universe-- and that the designs of their Homeworlds are at least as deeply thought-out as the character designs.
And the Khund Empire and Oa are members of the United Planets? That should make for some odd politics.
Better The Devil You Know Than The Devil You Don't -- Irish proverb
There have been periods of time and places where culture remains relatively the same. Ancient Egypt is the best example of this. On the other hand, a thousand years ago most of Western Europe was dominated by the Holy Roman Empire, and it does not exist anymore. It will be interesting to see how many of these planets stay in this federation for the full thousand years.
Go with the good and you'll be like them; go with the evil and you'll be worse than them.- Portuguese Proverb
It sounds to me like he's saying each member is both from a distinct planet and also must have a distinct power. But it's not extremely clear.
If you were to walk into the US House of Representatives or the Senate, any one of them could say "Each of us represents one state and one party", and they would NOT be wrong. But that doesn't mean there aren't multiple representatives from each state or from each party.
So, Lightning Lad's statement does not really add any limitations. Has it been verified somehow that Ayla is Light Lass and not Lightning Lass?
REGARDLESS, it makes sense that they might place some restriction on members with NATIVE powers, to keep entire planets from signing up... but if the origin story for Garth and Ayla repeats, their powers aren't native, so then they could both join.
I don't think this like voting, anyway, it's more like... the Olympics. People just want to see their planets represented.
It sounds to me like he's saying each member is both from a distinct planet and also must have a distinct power. But it's not extremely clear.
If you were to walk into the US House of Representatives or the Senate, any one of them could say "Each of us represents one state and one party", and they would NOT be wrong. But that doesn't mean there aren't multiple representatives from each state or from each party.
So, Lightning Lad's statement does not really add any limitations.
That's one way of reading it. But, if he's just saying that Legionnaires don't represent more than one planet, then you have to read him as saying that Legionnaires don't represent more than one power, which seems to rule out Legionnaires with multiple powers. Plus, it's a weirdly random thing to say.
If I point at the U. S. Flag and say, "Each star represents one state," the implication is that there's a distinct state for each star. I think that's the more natural way of reading LL's comment.
But, honestly, I think it's just a badly written bit of dialogue and it's probably a mistake to read too much into it.
.... But, honestly, I think it's just a badly written bit of dialogue and it's probably a mistake to read too much into it.
Good point. And really, why even mention that each person represents one planet unless he meant to say more than that... how could anyone represent MORE than one planet?
Anyway, they are represented as definitely being teenagers, so either badly written dialogue OR even *realistically* written dialogue for a character who just might not be all that eloquent.
Superman #16: Super Sons reunion before Jon's departure for the future at the end of the issue. that's it. No new information on the Legion.
I'm annoyed that they had a perfect opportunity to show some previews of what to expect or something...
...when Saturn Girl says "I can psychically connect you to my own memories and experiences on the Legion and you can --- there." I expected to turn the page and see a double-page spread of cool Legion moments.
Instead nothing. But Jon saying "Um...Wow!" Earlier in the book, we got a double-page spread of Superman telling Jon about Leviathan for no reason. Very disappointing.
Best line in the issue - while Jon and Damien are chatting (while having fun cleaning up a few bad guys together) Jon mentions his invite to join the team of superheroes in the 31st century. Damien responds with "That sounds insanely awsome. When Jon down plays it the invite a bit, Damien responds with:
"I'm just excited there is a thousand years in the future. That's the best news I have heard in a while."
Jon: "That ... is a great point."
In many ways that is one of the great things about the Legion in a nutshell.
I thought the Superman #15 appearance was a bit tragic - this is their Big First Appearance?? They show up too early and look like a bunch of tools, then bail. And all at once - the big gaggle of non-descript characters. This is making me think of the recent Leviathan where Bendis just had all the heroes talk over each other and looking like they had no idea what they were doing. He did it here too. If you weren't familiar with this team, would this appearance make you want to read about them?
Not sure why they had to blur the lower right corner. The art would probably look nice without text...
The line art seems to be missing there - probably because it was drawn vertically and when they decided to rotate it to that angle, there was no line art to fill out that corner so first they just colored over it, and I guess on the next pass they decided to do that blur to cover it up.
Superman #16 was meant as the final hook to get readers to join Jon Kent in traveling to the 31st century to join the Legion of Super Heroes. On one level it succeeded, that being the emotional farewell with Damien and his dad Superman. Yet, when Jon asked Saturn Girl for a glimpse of the future, this issue missed a golden opportunity to give a visual glimpse of that future in a two page spread or more. Readers need to see the future. This would have been a great opportunity to show off the talents of Legion artist Ryan Sook. Not providing any glimpse of the 31st century was a missed opportunity from both a storytelling and marketing standpoint.
Still, I’m glad I bought this issue so I too could join Jon, aka Superboy, on his journey to join the Legion. I just hope the trip is worth it.
Previous Thread
