Topic: Garth and Mekt are twins, and Ayla is their younger sister
cleome46
or you can do the confusion 'til your head falls off
posted
quote:Originally posted by Sir Tim Drake: At least according to Superboy #207. Cary Bates must have forgotten that Garth and Ayla looked similar enough that she could plausibly disguise herself as him.
Is this the worst continuity error in any Legion story?
Ironically, in the Legion cartoon, Ayla was "time-lost" and transformed into pure lightning when the boys got their powers. When B5 and Shrinking Violet restored her real form in Season Two, Ayla was the same age as she'd been at the time of the accident-- ten years before.
So Garth and Mekt were much closer to being twins than either was to being Ayla's twin. Maybe this was a nod to the original story. (And it also ends up being a sideways nod to the 5YG storyline where Ayla was de-aged by Glorith.)
-------------------- Hey, Kids! My "Cranky and Kitschy" collage art is now viewable on flickr. Drop by and tell me that I sent you.
From: Vanity, OR | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: It's really difficult to come up with original super-powers, or even to use super-powers in interesting, novel ways.
Oh, I totally disagree, on both counts.
You make a lot of good points, Set, and you are right: If writers put some thought into it, they could come up with more creative powers and creative uses for old powers.
However, I think it's worth noting that writing any kind of story is different from creating characters for a role-playing game. Players usually don't have to contend with plot, character development, dramatic tension, and dialogue . . . not to mention comics-specific concerns such asfan expectations and (these days) endless crossovers and attention to previous continuity.
All of which is to say that Bates (and perhaps other writers) probably operate on a different hierarchy of concerns than most fans do, with originality in super-powers ranking fairly low.
Of course, there are writers who can tell a good story *and* use powers in inventive ways. Silver Age writers such as Hamilton, Siegel, and Shooter used to be able to do that. However, in those days the Legion was more of a science fiction series that featured super-heroes rather than a super-hero series that happened to be set in the future, as it became from the '70s onward. The expectations of writers were a bit different.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by He Who Wanders: However, I think it's worth noting that writing any kind of story is different from creating characters for a role-playing game. Players usually don't have to contend with plot, character development, dramatic tension, and dialogue . . . not to mention comics-specific concerns such asfan expectations and (these days) endless crossovers and attention to previous continuity.
Very true. Having run said super-hero games, the need to entertain only the half-dozen or so people in the room, and not try to service the many and varying interests of thousands of fans of a team book, make it, in one respect, much easier. On the other hand, the ability of the 'characters' of the story to do things that completely surprise you, the 'storyteller,' can also make it a bit of a challenge, as well.
Comic teams never seem to care about balance between team members. Superman and Batman end up working together, as the writer artificially handicaps Superman (who is somewhere between ten and a hundred times smarter than Batman, and thinks millions of times faster), so that Batman doesn't look like a chump. Glass-cannon characters like Cyclops, who packs a hell of a punch but has the same defensive abilities of Bob, who lives next door, stand alongside people who pack a similar punch *and* are nigh-indestructible, like Colossus, and, for some idiotic reasons, all the bad-guys shoot at Colossus, who they can't hurt, so that we can get cool images of stuff bouncing off of him, while Cyclops stands there in all his not-even-a-little-bit-bulletproof glory, being ignored.
In a game, that's not an option. Everyone is supposed to get a chance to shine, and exist on a level playing field.
quote: All of which is to say that Bates (and perhaps other writers) probably operate on a different hierarchy of concerns than most fans do, with originality in super-powers ranking fairly low.
Very true, and some powers, like flame powers and lightning powers are super flashy and dynamic and exciting to see in action, while a group of villains who use the same powers to cause people they look at to suffer heatstroke or dampen the electrical impulses in their brains to make them pass out sounds visually dull.
Plus, in the absence of thought bubbles or those little text boxes describing what's going on, it's easier for the writer to have the heroes only do things that are able to be 'described' visually on the page, like chuck fire and lightning at people. Anything that would require a sentence worth of description is probably no longer considered acceptable.
quote: However, in those days the Legion was more of a science fiction series that featured super-heroes rather than a super-hero series that happened to be set in the future, as it became from the '70s onward. The expectations of writers were a bit different.
Something that Ed Hamilton tribute thread has brought back to me is how much I miss the sci-fi gonzo stuff. I've noticed, more and more, that I'm using older and older stuff in my own fanfiction, like the demon of Taboo Island that possessed Command Kid in my recent Glorith fic, or whatnot. There were some amazingly creative ideas in the old days, and these days, it seems like 'Oh look, it's the Dominators, again! Hey, let's mention Darkseid, or the Time Trapper!' is the standard repetitive fare we get.
Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
If you are looking for glaring continuity errors re: legionnaires' powers, one of the historically worst is the "question" of what effect red sun rays have on Mon-el.
Adventure #319 has its entire resolution predicated on the premise that Mon-el, unlike Superboy, does NOT lose his powers under a red sun.
Since then, as we all know, the opposite has been true. I'm not sure if this was just an error at the time, or if they hadn't yet established that it was the other way around.
I'm also not quite sure when they first did declare that Mon-el DOES lose powers under a Red Sun... I know they did in the C-55 tabloid (the LL/SG wedding one), and if that was the first time since Adv #319 (though I doubt it), that (or could be considered a continuity error over Adv #319, actually. In fact, whenever they first did declare the current reality may have been a continuity error due to congtradicting Adv #319, unless the latter itself violated a previous claim to the contrary.
I'm sure someone on here is enough of an expert to know when it was first stated that Mon-el DOES lose powers under a Red Sun? (Unfortunately, I don't myself have time to dig my collection out of the closet and read through enough issues to be sure of this...)
-------------------- "I like stuff that doesn't exist."
From: Old Lyme, CT | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mon-El also did not lose his powers under a red sun in Adventure # 333.
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
Isn't it established at one point that the lead serum allows Mon to keep his powers under a red sun?
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
Set
There's not a word yet, for old friends who've just met.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Isn't it established at one point that the lead serum allows Mon to keep his powers under a red sun?
Yeah, I remember that being said explicitly at some point, and I remember thinking 'that's awfully convenient!'
Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yeah, you guys are right, I had forgotten about that (the lead serum supposedly being the reason he was unaffected by the red sun).
However, I think that was a retroactive explanation of an inconsistency ...
... and certainly doesn't seem consistent with Adv. #319. I happen to have an extra chewed-up copy of that issue that's not buried in the closet with the rest of my collection, so this is an exact quote, by Mon-el, from that issue:
"The red sun-rays made Superboy lose his powers, but they won't affect me! Only lead ever affected me, and it doesn't now because of the antidote I drank!"
So that certainly doesn't sound consistent with the later explanation that the serum causes his invulnerability to red sun rays.
Regardless, even if the serum did make him unaffected by red sun rays, that effect was later taken away.
Like I said, off the top of my head, I definitely remember him losing his powers due to red sun rays in the C-55 SS/LL wedding tabloid (written by Levitz, I think), and certainly I don't recall any mention of him NOT losing power under a red sun (due to serum or otherwise) since the Adventure era.
-------------------- "I like stuff that doesn't exist."
From: Old Lyme, CT | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
After the Conspiracy storyline when the Time Trapper had injured him to the brink of death....wasn't it stated then that the reason Daxamite surgeons couldn't do anything to help him was because his own invulnerability protected him from any surgical procedures even under a red sun? (I may be remembering wrong, granted this is like 20 years ago now)
-------------------- Read the alternate adventures of the Legion after Legion of Three Worlds! postlo3w
Registered: Nov 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Evolution Has Failed: "The red sun-rays made Superboy lose his powers, but they won't affect me! Only lead ever affected me, and it doesn't now because of the antidote I drank!"
Hmm. If this were true, then wouldn't he have already had his powers when he landed on Krypton right before it exploded? Maybe he didn't know that the antidote also protected him from a red sun?
I think he talks about his serum in the JO story and in Lament for a Legionnaire. Let me look it up.
-------------------- Buy my new graphic novel! http://www.dodeka12.com
From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
No mention of his serum protecting him from red sun rays in either of those stories, but I'm sure I've read that somewhere.
-------------------- Buy my new graphic novel! http://www.dodeka12.com
From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
It would definitely seriously mess up the origin story if he naturally had powers under a red sun.
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I just remembered: In Action 379, Mon-El states that his serum protects him from lead and red sun rays. Seems like there was an editor's note to that effect in an earlier story though.
-------------------- Buy my new graphic novel! http://www.dodeka12.com
From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
All this boils down to is that writers can be lazy in doing research, or they interpret or ignore past stories.
Post-Silver Age writers were not alone in this. While perusing Adventure-era stories a few months ago, I was struck by the details Hamilton and Siegel made up as they went along. "Important" planets, races, and technology were invented to solve a particular story problem and never mentioned again. (The Concentrator, "the most powerful weapon in the universe," from Adv. 321 is one example.)
Details such as Mon's immunity to the red sun also seemed to change to meet story needs.
I don't have Adv. 319 handy, but I vividly remember Adv. 333, which I mentioned above. In the story, Superboy has no powers because he and the Legionnaires are visiting earth during the distant past, in which our sun was red. The story calls for him to stop a bomb from destroying a city, so he does -- or rather Mon-El does, wearing Superboy's costume.
It's a powerful moment: A Kryptonian hero saves Krypton's enemies from a bomb launched by Kryptonians -- and only Mon-El could have pulled it off. He has the same powers as Superboy and resembles Superboy from a distance.
And, of course, this couldn't happen if Mon, too, had lost his powers under a red sun.
So, Hamilton may have ignored that detail (or maybe later writers ignored the idea that Mon retains his powers under a red sun), but the story would have been weakened had the writer taken the time to explain this apparent inconsistency or come up with some other contrived explanation. (Let's face it: Mon's timely arrival is contrived enough.)
As fans, we want every detail to be consistent in our fictional heroes' lives, but writers have to serve the needs of the story they are telling. And, really, who can keep all those details straight for 20-plus Legionnaires over decades of stories?
-------------------- The Semi-Great Gildersleeve - writing, super-heroes, and this 'n' that
From: The Stasis Zone | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
Hyperpath: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic | Subscribe To Topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
