posted
I would retcon out Dream Girl. As EDE says, most of her contributions have been in the form of plot devices, which generally made for weak stories anyway. She really contributed nothing. It was not until fans attempted to toss Levitz for a loop my electing her leader that she really contributed anything.
However, Star Boy figures into many of the intrigal themes of the Legion. The Legionnaire Who Killed (and that could have just as easily been some other chick he killed for), the Luckless Legionniare, the Legionniare's Lost Powers.
posted
Amen to the Dreamy retcon. It's not that I think Thom is crucial, but many, if not most, of those precog stories were lame ("Superboy is going to die! Oh wait, I just saw a ROBOT Superboy die, because...") and with the exception of the Levitz glory days Nura has been pretty cliched and boring. One of my least favorite characters.
And boot KKid. Dumb name, dumb power, especially in the Silver Age stories ("My knowledge of martial arts allows me to perform this incredible feat!"). Much improved in the reboot, where his power seems to be more realistic and limited. And how did we get "Live Wire" as a replacement for Lightning Lad, but we're still stuck with "Karate Kid?" Hello, Bruce Lee craze.
-------------------- The only consistent feature of all of your dissatisfying relationships is you.
Don't judge me!
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Pre-boot I would have said Nura hands down. But now, with her Khund training her character, if they would use her, is more interesting. I found her back-up story in the Legion Worlds series the most intersting of the bunch.
From: Utah | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Preboot I'd say keep Nura, since I loved her personality, and without her I doubt the White Witch Witch would have joined the Legion.
For the reboot, I can't decide yet.
Between Val and Andy, probably Andy. Ferro Lad pretty much became special BECAUSE he died; it would be fairly easy to create a different character to sacrifice themselves to save Superboy.
posted
Impossible for me to choose between Sir Prize and Miss Terious. I like them both and neither character would be complete without the other to play against. That's as true today as it was forty years ago, imo.
The choice between KK and Ferro is easier. Ferro by a furlong. His sacrifice and death reverberated in Legion lore for many years afterwards (e.g., v2 #300) whereas Val's death was interesting mainly in terms of its personal impact on Jeckie. I never bought the chemistry between them anyway (I'd never marry a man who wore a big, silly collar). Post-boot, Ferro has more potential for character growth. Val is too ascetic and inscrutable, and too closely associated with martial arts, which doesn't interest me at all.
From: Reimagined Trom | Registered: Jul 2003
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Between KK and Ferro, I much prefer KK. Maybe it's because I wasn't there when the preboot Ferro made his sacrifice, to me he's always been a statue in the Hall of Heroes. And the postboot version is utterly uninteresting, I can't stand his whining (although he's become better of late). His powers are also unoriginal, and, in my opinion, not particularly useful. Karate Kid, on the other hand, has the potential of becoming one of my favorite characters (I'll concede that he isn't one, at the moment). I guess I like his way of viewing the world, and his quiet but vert self-assured manner. Much could be done with him (maybe we need something to test that self-confidence of his...).
Between Star Boy and Dreamer, no contest, I prefer Dreamer by a long shot. One of the most enduring images of the postboot is the new Dreamer sitting in bed, passing the hours because she doesn't sleep (Legion Worlds). Creepy, you just know that something bad is bound to happen to her. Star Boy, on the other hand, is... well, dispensable.
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Hmmmm....KK or Ferro? Nura or Thom? I'd keep Ferro & KK and dump Nura and Thom
What? I can't do that but...
Well, okay, in that case:
1) KK or Ferro: Tough choice for me as I've always liked both characters. I would keep Andy because he is unique and no one else can fill his role. KK could easily be replaced (with just a little tweaking) by Brin. Brin has shown his tremendous fighting skills on numerous occasions. He could easily be shown to be a student of martial arts and gradually grow into Val role as the master fighter of the galaxy.
2) Nura or Thom: This one is easy for me. I would dump Nura in a nanosecond. I've always found her to be annoying, and pretty much worthless. She came to Earth to "save" the Legion after seeing them killed in a spaceship explosion, only it turns out to be android or robot replicas. IMHO, the LSH was right to shuttle her off to the Subs. That's where she belonged! If you really felt the need to have someone with precog powers, have Imra develop them as part of her mental skill set.
Finally, in answer to Lasher's question to FC regarding who to kill off in Andy's place, I offer up two choices. First, this would have been one good use for Nura. She could have "seen" that it was her destiny. Since I've already retconned out Nura, however, I would suggest that preboot Vi was certainly as insecure as Andy is portrayed and her heroic sacrifice would have reverberated as profoundly throughout the Legion Universe.
-------------------- "Hey Jim! Get Mon out of the Zone!! And...when do we get Condo back?"
From: Paragon City on patrol | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Nah don't kill off Thom He's mostly always been the most realistic of the Legion.
I'd have picked Karate Kid post reboot. He's been more interesting since tho. And leave Sensor alone too. She's going through a lot now. Tho I missed what happened to cause the change in her.
Maybe despite the size of the cast no one really needs to die
-------------------- Questions of morality are often matters of taste
From: Tacoma, WA | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Thom always did have something of the "average guy" about him, and his problems with being in love with the beautiful Dreamer (who didn't always return the affection, for one reason or another) has always been a sad and charming storyline.
Still, forced to choose between them, I'd go with Dreamer. She offered an odd combination of opposites - vampy, yet sometimes insecure; ditzy and brainy; self absorbed and a leader. Pre-boot, Thom seemed most often to act as her accessory; that's what sticks in my mind. Without Thom, pre-boot Nura could have caused a lot more trouble in the Legion, stealing boyfriends, flirting, etc. She might have gotten a better grip on her powers, refined or improved them, without Thom to always defend her and, literally, catch her as she fell.
Post-boot, they're both more interesting characters. Both were crucial to the war against Robotica. Thom's faltering powers and foretold death are interesting potential stories. However, I think the upgraded Dreamer has been and will be more crucial to Legion and 31st century events.
posted
I'd keep Ferro Lad and Dream Girl and ditch the other 2. Mostly because Ferro Lad and Dream Girl are 2 of my all time favorites--I always did like the underdogs and these are interesting underdogs. Ferro Lad's mask made him mysterous and intriguing. And his reason for wearing the mask made him a tragic character. Dream Girl's beauty and her power also made her mysterious and intriguing, not to mention the fact that she was highly intelligent and capable preboot. I hated the way they made her a vamp and then a ditz and was thrilled with her reworking via Khundian training.
By the way, Dream Girl wasn't elected by the readers to throw Levitz for a loop. She was elected because she was popular with the fans and they were tired of the fact that she rarely ever appeared. Thank God she was elected leader because it forced the creative team to use her more. Otherwise, I'm sure she would've gone the way of Bouncing Boy, Duo Damsel, Chemical King, and Matter Eater Lad. "Poor me. I'm so useless. I might as well quit."
Star Boy is just dull as dishwater preboot (though he shows more potential postboot) and any other Legionnaire could've filled the "Legionnaire Who Killed"role just as easily. And Karate Kid's fighting skills are pretty unimpressive when you've got guys like Superboy and Mon-El on the team IMO. As somebody else pointed out, KK and TW were pretty interchangeable, though if the choice were between those 2 I'd keep Val and ditch Brin.
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From: Champaign, IL | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
This is a hard topic! But I will try to stay to the point: which Legionnaires is expendable, not which one is my favorite.
Val/Andy: Although Val is my obvious favorite, I think there is more to that than my reasons for him being the most important. Why? Because I think a whole slew of Legionnaires could have been substituted in place of Andy in his death: Leviathon, Sun Boy, Shrinking Violet, Light Lass. These are all great Legionnaires whom I love, but I think Val is more important than any of them. Why? Because once Val joined, he quickly became a prominently featured Legionaires (moreso than Jeckie or Andy), and appeared constantly. For me, Val is the most representative of the shift away from the "Silver Age" Legion stories to the more character driven stories. Val attacks the Fatal Five when he has only hours to live. Val joins Brainy, Cos and Superboy when they invade Talok VII. He just seemed so important and so prominent in all the stories. And...he did have his own title, came back in time and then died saving Jeckie, in a way that was more personnal and emotional than Andy. Nothing could have replaced the death of a Legionnaire, but I think Andy could have been replaced by another Legionnaire.
Dreamy/Thom: this is a tough one. Pre-Levitz, definately Dreamy, since Thom was so intrical in the Legionnaire who killed, befriending Superboy and dating Lana, and being the Legionnaire who joined the Subs. Yet, Dreamy is influential too, and definately moreso once Levitz took over. From there on in, Dreamy is irreplaceable, while Thom's roles in various stories could have been substitued by Lightning Lad (bad luck), Timber Wolf (bad love life), or any Legionnaire in a battle.
Kewl topic Lash!
From: If you don't want my peaches, honey... | Registered: Sep 2003
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Eryk Davis Ester
Created from the Cosmic Legends of the Universe!
posted
Jeepers! I just remembered another reason for retconning out Star Boy. His insane bias prevented Calamity King from joining the Subs! Without Star Boy, my namesake would have been a much more prominent figure!
From: Liberty City | Registered: Jul 2003
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Okay, this time I'm going to choose 2 Legionnaires that I can't recall spending much time together, so retconning out one wouldn't affect the other character much... but both have their share of fans!
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